/lit/ - Literature

My local book store died about 15 years ago. Kind of a moot point at this stage.

>caring which capitalist you buy your books from
>caring about publishers profit margins

>>7045854
yeah amazon is basically the Wal-Mart of the internet.

>>7045854
The only book store around is Thalia. So it does not really matter where i buy.

>>7045866
two new book stores opened in my area in the last couple years...overpriced shit with awful selection, standard meme books, filled with middle brow white ppl who think they're smart because dfw makes them chuckle

sorry but i just don't give a shit about "local bookstores"

amazon creates way more jobs than any ma and pa bookstore ever could, and provides a better/cheaper service

>>7045898
>doesn't support small business

>>7045854
trying to stop capital is futile though, i just go with the deleuzian-negrian flow now

>>7045907
>putting your money in the pockets of the peti-bourgeoisie instead of buying shares of amazon and owning a piece of the people's bookstore

>>7045884
I don't even have "local bookstores". We had a borders for a while, that was pretty much just as bad as amazon, before they got shut down.

>>7045898
Yeah but the working conditions are shit tier and most of the people who work for their warehouses don't actually work for Amazon (ie, they don't get benefits), they work through a staffing agency.

Can't deny that their service is good, though. It is. That's why they're killing it.

>>7045917
but you think the clerk at your "locally owned" bookshop gets a fabulous benefits package?

>>7045907
not if their whole business model is just to do something that monopolies already do way better, but with a 'human touch'

there's no reason for businesses like that to exist anymore.

>>7045917
i meant software engineering jobs at amazon, which have top tier working conditions. They're one of the 'big four', you know.

>>7045854
if you truly cared about the labor question you'd use your disposable income to hasten the arrival of the largest, most soulless corporation. unionizing and revolution (or at least tumult) are ideal under such circumstances.

defending local bookstores is not dissimilar to slave owners who argued that their plantations were the ideal socialist mode of production (versus the capitalist north) because they provided free land, food, and care for their workers.

i dont care if the local bookstore is owned by someone who is passionate about literature and goes out of their way to get to know their customers and other such nonsense. you know who else is passionate about literature? me, a couple of my friends. but we didn't go out of our way to own, manage, or work for an enterprise which transforms literature into products in order to generate enough profit to survive from fiscal year to fiscal year. in a way that actually makes local bookstores worse than huge soulless chains

at least they aren't pretending about what is going on at a fundamental level

So uh...they can sell it for less than my local book shop, deliver it to my fucking door for free, and even throw in a free magnet or some shit every now and then?

Yeah, sorry. For this kind of service, i would honestly have no problem dragging the old bitch out of her book smelling piece of shit store by her hair, and shoot her in the back of the head in wal-mart parking lot.

>>7045928
>>7045915

>supporting soulless corporations

>>7045928
>i meant software engineering jobs at amazon, which have top tier working conditions. They're one of the 'big four', you know.

Amazon Web Services is one of the greatest things since the creation of the internet, no hyperbole, with it you can basically have the same access to backend infrastructure as any startup in the valley regardless of where you are or how much money you have, in fact tons of valley startups are using it rather than building the shit up themselves, i know enthusiasm for innovation and capitalism won't go over will in the rustlememints world of /lit/ but AWS is seriously "the shit"

>>7045898
they can create more jobs than any one individual mom and pop store
but on a national scale they are a job destroyer

>>7045932
>i dont care if the local bookstore is owned by someone who is passionate about literature

from what i hear jeff bezos, while not a literature officianado, is an insatiable devourer of non-fiction

>>7045954
that means they free up labor to grow the economy...i mean a fucking washing machine is a "job destroyer" since now women don't have to sit on the river bank all day scrubbing your jizz stained underoos

You guys realize your local bookstore pays their employees minimum wage, no benefits, twenty hours a week, and probably doesn't even have a bathroom for the employees.

You ever talk to people who work at book stores? It's one of the most miserable jobs out there

>>7045966
>You ever talk to people who work at book stores? It's one of the most miserable jobs out there

>makes general assumption with no supporting evidence

welcome to /lit/, lads

>>7045951
>with it you can basically have the same access to backend infrastructure as any startup in the valley

what the fuck is backend infrastructure

>>7045966
the ny times had an article about a bookstore by columbia in nyc that fired their whole staff when they threatened to unionize, and the guy had a policy of cutting the hours of longtime employees until they quit (his logic was if they were good workers they would have found a better job by now or sth queer like that) sounds quite shit, but hey at least the books cost more! oh wait...

>>7045909
How do you disrupt the territorialization and coding of capitalism? It seems futile. Attempts to break away from the biopolitics sphere will only endow you to it further.

That 'soul' you feel in independent bookstores - it's the spirit of pain that haunts the place.

>>7045854
What nobody has mentionned yet is that bookstores used to have a value in that it was the only way for readers to find "new" books to read. Guess what medium readers refer to today to find new stuff to read. no really, guess.

While I agree that bookstores are aesthetically pleasing and I like going to them, they are bound to disappear in the next 50 years.

>>7045966
I'm sure you've done plenty of research on the subject.

>>7045973
racks of linux boxes running databases, cgi scripts, etc. durr, oh wait, this is lit, no one knows how to make more than the minimum wage

>>7045982
>>7045972
his anecdotal evidence trumps the evidence you guys have provided so far, which is nothing

>>7045978
Destroy media stations and never allow yourself to become a media object (ie no new interviews, no manifestos, nothing which ties you to any kind of "identity")

>>7045975
I've read a few stories by writers who would go to local bookstores to do sigings and the employees would beg them to save them from their evil book selling overlords. I think michael moore even made a documentary about it.

It's like any other shit job out there anymore. Rampant time theft, only giving you 20 hours a week but demanding that you're always available to work so you're not allowed to get another job, no benefits, probably the stores will start branding people and claming prima nocta soon.

>>7045854
>tfw local bookstore orders books in often for cheaper than Amazon though a bit slower
>tfw super cute french girl works there
>old guy that talks to me about Rimbaud and Baudelaire
>also have free prime shipping if I need amazon
Feels good man

>>7045988
>his fallacious evidence is less fallacious because you guys didn't provide any evidence

Nevermind the fact that I didn't make a claim to provide evidence for, that's not very sensible logic, m8.

>>7045966
Amazon has a shit record when it comes to worker rights and work environment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html?_r=0

https://youtu.be/F4aRz7NqTOo

Unionise!

>>7045985
what does me knowing the significance of racks of linux boxes have to do with minimum wage? time to leave the basement, napoleon dynamite.

>>7045988
>trying to persuade a bunch of neckbeards, who think only in terms of money, that thoughtlessly giving your good boy points to corporations is just plain wrong and goyish

>>7046001
No shit, you realize though that just about every company (probably including your local bookstore) has a shit record when it comes to worker rights and work environment.

Go ahead and unionize, they'll move operations to mexico or india.

>>7046001
in the shitty warehouses, yeah, obviously. Are there any good shitty warehouse jobs? i don't think so

only a matter of time before those jobs are performed by cool robots, anyway

>>7045989
>new interviews
*news interviews

I wish book stores would carry more small/interesting self-published books.

A shelf for shitty 'zines' need not apply.

>>7045854
I'll support my "local" bookstores, i.e., massive chains because there are no local, independent bookstores, when they don't charge 2x what Amazon does for every novel and stock a decent array of fiction.

>try to support my local bookstore
>pay $28 for a single book

>>7046008
Greetings from Scandinavia, friend!

>>7045995
You should ask her out m8

>>7046010
>chooses the adjective "shitty" for the warehouses which are directly responsible for amazon's success

>uses the adjective "cool" for robots which are actually incredibly uninteresting

>>7045998
>fallacious evidence

it's not fallacious. i also know that my local bookstore doesn't provide health care benefits, and pays minimum wage.

and yea, your claim is implied. your sarcastic meme replies imply you disagree with him, in other words you are claiming that local bookstores pay their employees above minimum wage, benefits, and 40+ hours a week

>>7046005
i dont even know what youre trying to say

>>7046010
>only a matter of time before those jobs are performed by cool robots, anyway

or mexicans, then if any american complains that the conditions were shit the sjw warriors will say you're just an anti-immigrant whiner who can't compete

>>7046034
>i dont even know what youre trying to say

There's no point in trying to argue with someone who doesn't see what's wrong with not supporting small business.

>>7046028
Too beta. Don't want to be "that customer"

>>7046031
doesn't make the warehouses themselves not shitty

like, you go and run out the clock on your life working in one of them 50 hours a week

yeah, didn't think so

>still buying books in 2015
>caring about publisher or store profits

I don't support big corporations or small bookstores.

Piracy is the way to go.

>>7046039

Am I the only one who has had positive local book shop experiences? There used to be an amazing bookstore down town full of mostly used books with used record shop downstairs that would have shows every weekend. Not to mention the owner was patrician as fuck and could actually give you good recommendations if you knew what you were talking about.

There's also one right down the street from me which functions more as a trade store and I have no idea how it stays in business. Basically, you can trade in your old books for store credit (if they decide they want the books obviously), and then use that to buy other used books. They have a great selection, though, all the classics obviously, but also tons of odd obscure shit.

>>7046038
Most "small businesses," are just as guilty of the same shit that the big evil corporations are. Just because they're "local" doesn't give them any slack in my books. Fuck 'em.

Hell, most "local" stores are just corporate stores disguised as a corner store anyways.

>>7046050

used bookstores are way cheaper than buying on amazon. in canada anyway, where shipping is a 6.50 flat rate for used shit.

7 dollars for a used book is retarded, i could easily find the same book for $1 at a ma and pa store if i was capable of leaving the house.

>>7046038
i really dont see whats wrong. my reply here: >>7045932 has not been argued against so far in this thread.

all you have offered so far to anyone with a coherent argument are reaction pictures like these: >>7046053 >>7045948

epic meme pic only replies are also fallacious

>>7046050
>Most

Should be easy to prove then, no?

>>7046060
>could easily find the same book at a ma and pa store

you must read some seriously mainstream memes then

>>7046063

>mfw Americans willingly give their shekels to the corporate jews

>>7046064
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/sales/cashiers.htm

yes, if you work in a bookstore you are just a "cashier" not a "patrician book merchant" or anything else, you are a fucking cashier doing unskilled labor, the end.

>>7045917
It's not 1950, if you work at a warehouse in America your job blows and you have 0 future prospects. There aren't magical non-Amazon warehouse jobs filled with candy and handjobs. Then again you probably don't know a single person who works in labor/manufacturing

>>7046074
Where's the breakdown of "small" vs "big" business? Where are the stats about benefits?

You have such a firm conviction, but what exactly is your conviction based on if you can't prove the claim?

>>7046068
bezos is spanish, the CEO's father is cuban, and his mother's family is white settlers from texas

>>7046084
actually his real father was a swede named "torgunsen" or some shit like that, but a cuban raised him

>>7046083
it's based on real life...do you really think you are going to get a living wage, 40 hours a week and benefits from a fucking peti-bourgeois bookshop? have you ever left your parents basement? holy shit what a retard

>>7046086
still not jews

op is a fag

>overpaying for books off Amazon
>not buying older, cooler-looking books off of thriftbooks and abebooks

stayplen.jpg

>>7046082
>if you work at a warehouse in America your job blows and you have 0 future prospects

Terse, presumptive statements based on no facts seem to be common in this thread. FedEx pays its warehouse employees tuition. Amazon does too, but again, the people who actually receive these benefits are in the vast minority of their warehouses.

So say you work through college, get a degree and then get a better job. Zero future prospects? I guess that sounded like a fun mean thing to type on 4chan, like a typical cynical manchild.

>>7046101
>"Thrift Books' business model “is based on achieving economies of scale through automation."
>not knowing abebooks is owned by amazon

turns out the plen is you, bitch

>>7046093
If it's based on real life, you've done an absolutely horrible job of conveying that to everybody else with evidence. Unless you expected everyone to just take your word for it?

I don't have any local book stores within a 40 minutes drive by me. There is a barnse and noble but has shit selection and prices for what I like.

My kindle 3 finally died so I got KOBO to be delivered next week, feels good to not have anything amazon affiliated now.

Is it preferable to pirate ebooks or buy from amazon in /lit/s eyes?

>>7046101
>not knowing you can get used books off amazon

wow how retarded are you

>>7045854

Dumb argument. Local bookstores aspire to be as big as amazon. Capitalist enterprise is capitalist enterprise, regardless of stature.

>>7046105
You just said yourself that the workers that actually get these perks are in the minority.

Clearly my prospects comment meant no large advancement in similar work, and as an engineer who's monitored a chemical factory floor, if you think those workers just have the job to put themselves through college, you're an idiot.

>>7046108
do you honestly believe a small retail store that sells low margin goods like books is going to provide a high standard of living to their workers or are you only pretending to be retarded?

>>7046105
>FedEx pays its warehouse employees tuition

Nobody who works at fedex is going to go to school.

I used to have to go to a fedex warehouse every day for my job (i didn't actually work for fedex, i did contracting work for fedex employees.....long, uninteresting story). People who work at the fedex warehouse are the laziest, dumbest, people you'll ever meet. They might actually not even be humans, i never figured that out.

>>7045981
Newspapers and blogs.

>tfw I read all my books on the Kindle
>purchased every book I own
>Amazon is rich because of me

>>7046116
>Local bookstores aspire to be as big as amazon

>everyone is a money hoarding kike

>>7046117
The workers in the Amazon warehouses are in the minority. This is particularly egregious given Amazon's success on the backs of these staffing agency workers.

We can make assumptions all day about the stupid people who work in warehouses, but it's really not objective or fair to assume none of them are ever going to amount to anything and write them all off as a loss simply because they're working in a warehouse.

>>7046126
it the only way for capitalism to work you commie shitbag

>>7045854
>towards its own books

Amazon publishes books? I have never even heard of a book published by Amazon, let alone read one.

>>7046133
>it the only way for capitalism to work

please refrain from talking any more about economics

>>7046120
>Nobody who works at fedex is going to go to school.
>I used to have to go to a fedex warehouse every day for my job (i didn't actually work for fedex, i did contracting work for fedex employees.....long, uninteresting story). People who work at the fedex warehouse are the laziest, dumbest, people you'll ever meet. They might actually not even be humans, i never figured that out.

holy shit someone on /lit/ with a realistic view on the proletariat! amazing! i know the only workers most sjw know are the undocumented maids who waited on them hand and foot as children, but for those of us of "working class descent" know the truth, the working class are a bunch of lazy retards

>>7045854
>not using the public library

true art is living off of the government.

by the way, the real reason warehouses are shit tier jobs these days is because they're full of niggers. has nothing to do with capitalism.

>>7046130
most warehouses get workers from staffing agencies you pampered idiot

>>7046137
okay, sorry

>>7046117
I remember when i was in college there was this local steel mill that was closing down. As part of their agreement with the union, they agreed to pay tuition for anybody who wants to be "retrained". So a few of these steel workers started showing up at the college, of course most of them didn't even bother. it's easy to agree to pay for something when you know you don't have to pay for it.

Anyway, the steel workers were only around for like two semesters, then the company cut off their funding. They were like "Wait, whoa whoa! We didn't mean we'd pay for you to get a degree or anything! We just thought we'd pay for you to take a typing class or something!"

>>7046130
You're the one making assumptions about them, I'm telling you my experiences with dozens firsthand.

I'm not the guy calling them dumb, they are smart and good at their jobs (if it's complex/skilled), but the workers at that level simply aren't putting themselves through school. Labor/manufacturing will be their career for life if they're not in the small minority where it's a short-term job.

>>7046139
It's amazing how bad at thinking you are. Here you are admitting that you base your knowledge on nothing but your own biased experience, not objective facts or statistics, and automatically assume brotherly allegiance with some other anon who visited a FedEx for his job because he agreed with you.

What an abomination.

>>7046137
>amazon is crushing local bookstores
>but capitalism can work a different way


how? by outlawing bookstores that are too successful? that's not capitalism anymore, friendo

>>7046139
>holy shit someone on /lit/ with a realistic view on the proletariat! amazing! i know the only workers most sjw know are the undocumented maids who waited on them hand and foot as children, but for those of us of "working class descent" know the truth, the working class are a bunch of lazy retards

Not all of them, but a lot are. There's a lot of entitlement in them too. I live in a working class town, there's tons of people with the attitude that they should be able to be completely uneducated, work a job that an animal could probably be trained to do, and make $50,000 a year.

>>7046150
>doesn't know what anti-trust laws are

Why do I even waste my time with plebs who think they understand economics?

>>7046145
What assumption did I make?

You literally just predicted the course of their life.

>>7046141
most warehouses i worked in were all puerto ricans...although a barnes and noble distribution center i worked in as a temp was like 90% mexican and the conditions were so shit the puerto rican guy who came from the temp agency with me took one look and went home! lmao he couldn't handle the fast pace, but being the aryan man that i am i fulfilled my days darma as a barnes and noble slave, but did later tell them not to send me back there

>>7046157
puerto ricans count as niggers

>>7046156
...based off seeing it happen dozens of times irl? Observation not assumption

>>7046156
dude, it's getting real tedious when every time your silly beliefs get btfo you demand peer reviewed documentation, yet offer absolutely none to support any of your naive sjw beliefs (like warehouse peons are all going to go to engineering school or whatever) guess what? the idea that you will rise out of the warehouse and become a college educated white collar professional is actually part of white privilege, so check your fucking privilege! none of those peons are getting out the warehouse and they know it! now kindly fuck off.

>>7046162
How old are you that you've lived through dozens of warehouse worker's lifetimes?

>>7046171
he could ask you the same? since apparently you've seen some research that suggests that manual labor warehouse jobs are actually grad school feeders! who knew!

>>7046157
The fedex place i went to was worse because everyone was mostly white. I mean, assuming they were actually humans, they were white i guess. These people were fucking mutants though.

They had this big conveyor belt system that all the trucks would back up to at the end of the day, and it was supposed to automatically sort all the packages out and put them in their assigned truck. Of course, this thing had been broke for years, and management refused to pay to have it fixed. So they had this big fat, retarded looking guy, who's mouth was hanging open all the time, he would walk on top this conveyor and go to the pile at the edge of each truck and the fat fucker would seriously just kick them packages all in. Like, an angry kick too, like he was working out some weird retard rage. Then after he kicked all the packages in, he would go sit in on a tire and stare at the wall the rest of the night.

Weird fucking place.

>>7045854
Unless you're the common mainstream shopper, none of this should matter to you.

I've never purchased a book that I found exclusively through browsing Amazon. I come there knowing what I want already, as do most people on this board.

All in all, get your intelligence up son. Only an ape would think that way.

>>7046169
>actually saying check your privilege

Assuming you are not a troll you should be ashamed of yourself.

>>7046169
What beliefs have I even stated other than that I think Amazon should give benefits to all its warehouse workers?

The bits about your inability to separate critical thinking from comforting biases you develop in order to feel better about yourselves are just for sport at this point.

>>7046181
>The fedex place i went to was worse because everyone was mostly white

Alright, guys, there's been a lot of horseshit in this thread but THIS one takes the cake.

>>7046154
>implying Amazon is a monopoly
>implying we need anti-trust laws
>implying anti-trust laws work
>this du' 'bout to talk about Standard Oil 'n shit

Look them up sometime on Wikipedia and let me know if you still think the government did the right thing

>>7046228
>Look them up sometime on Wikipedia

Sorry, I don't try educating myself through an erroneous website.

You're mistaken if you're denying Amazon is a monopoly.

>>7046241
Their existence is a net positive for consumers, so banning them or applying nonsense anti-trust laws would inherently hurt consumers.

>>7046203
Well, the drivers are who I mainly dealt with, they were all white. The warehouse workers themselves, i dunno. The few I saw were white. They were hilarious, because most of them were great at completely disappearing for most of the night. I didn't even work there and there were times i'd be the only person in this massive warehouse for like 5 hours at a time, fucking packages piling up in 10 foot piles.

Office workers were even funnier, they would literally run away from you if you went into the office looking for help with something.

>>7046241
ever heard of barnes and noble? ever heard of amazon? ever heard of google? i mean come on amazon has competition from all sides...if they weren't in a deadly capitalist showdown they wouldn't have prices so fucking low as they are...which is how capitalism is supposed to work, people compete and bring new and cheap products to market. monopoly laws don't say every bozo in the country has a right to open up a bookshop.

>>7046250

Amazon destroys all local and small business, forcing consumers to buy through it.

>>7046265
consumers choose to buy from amazon because it has better selection at cheaper prices, if some fatcat bookshop owner can't compete i say good riddance

>>7046265
So? Maybe they deserve to be destroyed. If they can't compete, then that's good, you kick their asses out of the way.

I'm sure something will come along that's better and kill amazon at some point, that's how progress works.

>>7046265
>forcing consumers to buy through it.

That's their rationalization, not the actual truth.

>>7046265
I've got dank memes too m8.

There isn't some rule book that says "local business = good". Amazon operates at a loss every single year in order to provide staggering innovations to technology, warehousing, and shipping that every other company is afraid to try. It is now considered "normal" to have a package arrive in two days (sometimes less!). You could hardly find a single thing that isn't cheaper to buy on Amazon, or at least the same price as it would be in a brick & mortar shop. Anything Amazon touches creates a frenzy of competition: the Kindle, Fire, Echo, AWS, Instant Video, even the crazy shit like drone delivery.

Not only is Amazon a net positive to consumers, I would argue they don't have a single negative for consumers.

I see you've been BTFO by 3 other people while I was typing this post, so hopefully that gets you to reconsider your "MUH SMALL BUSINESS" posture.

>>7045937
/Thread
Tbqh fam

>>7046269
>>7046270
Well, with that logic we should just import cheap labor from Bangladesh and stop employing our countrymen.

Amazon sets prices so low that legitimately no other physical businesses can compete with them.

Amazon is putting people out of work.

If you can't see whats wrong with this, then, unfortunately, there's no point in us discussing this any further.

>b-but amazon saves me t-two shekels, whereas I would have had to pay more at the local bookstore

Enjoy being mindless consumer, one that Amazon doesn't care two shits about.

who the fuck cares
I can get any book fast at a decent price very conveniently from amazon
why should I be worried? That's like caring about that sites that whine about you using an ad blocker.

>>7046279
How are they forcing me?

I can go on there and buy some incence, a vibration tachometer, some Mark Twain and Faulkner all in one sitting, then get those shits delivered right to my door, for fucking free!

I go there because it works great for me. If i went to some local assholes, they probably wouldn't have what I wanted, and i'd spend $15 on gas driving around to their shitholes.

>>7046281
Not only is Amazon a net positive to consumers, I would argue they don't have a single negative for consumers.

>literally implying the money you give to Amazon will make its way back into your local economy

Learn how to think more long term, mate.

>>7046292
>being this poor

>>7046287
>Amazon sets prices so low that legitimately no other physical businesses can compete with them.

Ok? Good? If they can keep it up indefinitely (remember, they operate at a loss each year), then they've done consumers a massive service by bringing prices down on apparently overpriced products.

As for "putting people out of work"... please. Cars put horse drawn carriage drivers out of work, and I assume you would have been bawwing about that, too.

>>7046297
We don't live in small villages that have no access to the outside world anymore, m8. Where do you think the money is going? Amazon pays all of their employees, employees that LIVE in "local economies" and make a lot more money than they'd be making if they were still doing some old fashioned shit like operating horse-drawn carriages... or running a fucking book store.

>>7046292
>How are they forcing me?

That's my point. The people who claim they are "forced" to shop there are only rationalizing their decision after the fact.

>>7046307
>We don't live in small villages that have no access to the outside world anymore, m8

This is your understanding of the local economy

>>7046289
>I exist in a vacuum, there is nobody else but me, there is no future after me

>>7046313
There is no "local economy". I can be making money from Tibet while I live in Kansas. This is a global economy, and the main reason a company goes out of business these days is that they fail to adapt to that.

You didn't answer the question about where you think money goes when you buy something on Amazon, btw. Presumably it's because you don't know how businesses work, but I think we'd all like to hear your answer.

>>7046297
>giving a shit about the local economy in 2015

this makes no fucking sense. if i buy a book at my local bookstore what's to say the guy doesn't just put the profit in his kids college trustfund which then goes to buy cocaine and hookers in massachussetts or something? "the local economy" is a spook the peti-bourgeois merchants use to trick you into buying their overpriced bullshit

So how does Amazon continue to grow if they have operated at a loss for years?

>>7046321
>You didn't answer the question about where you think money goes when you buy something on Amazon, btw.

The money goes to the least amount of workers they can employ to distribute their product, workers whom are paid at the lowest cost to ensure efficiency for the company's finances.

>There is no "local economy". I can be making money from Tibet while I live in Kansas.

Ever leave your basement much? Local business can be any of the following: the bar down the street, the local farmer's market, the small grocery chain that only has a few stores in the area.

If you decide to buy your booze from amazon, then that's money going directly a corporation that is going to a money-crazed corporation; whereas if you were to go to the bar down the street to get your drinks instead of amazon, then that's money going directly into your community, which, even on an ethical stance, is objectively better.

But if you're too poor to spend the extra few dollars to help your community, then I understand.

I'm tired of wasting my time in this thread.
This is my last post.

Please stop reading wikipedia and thinking you can learn economics through that.

>b-but wikipedia is cheaper than going to college to pay for classes

>>7046346
because they reinvest all the profits into innovative new ways of delivering value to their customers. it's not jeff bezo's fault that he's not as lazy as the guy who owns your local bookshop

>>7046039
Ask her if she wants to discuss patrician books over some posh coffee.

Then give her the D

>>7046353
So without that reinvestment they would be making a profit?

>>7046347
i liek how you bluff some economics expertise but then spout silly hippy shit about "local economies". so suppose i buy some food at the local farmer's market and then the employees send all their money back to mexico and the owner uses the profit to buy shares of amazon? this helped "the local economy"?

>>7046347
>The money goes to the least amount of workers they can employ to distribute their product, workers whom are paid at the lowest cost to ensure efficiency for the company's finances.

This du' thinks somehow local businesses run any differently

>the bar down the street

Amazon isn't a bar, so there's no real competition here. In fact, with the money you and your friends save by using Amazon, you can ALL go to the bar and buy more!

>the local farmer's market

Amazon doesn't sell fresh produce (outside of a few areas), so again, no real competition here, and of course the argument about using the money you saved via Amazon works here too.

>small grocery chain

Reminder that the small grocery chain is still feeding money directly to the "money-crazed corporations" that make the products they sell. In a world with places like Amazon, I'm not really sure we NEED grocery stores for things like nonperishable goods.

>money going directly into your community, which, even on an ethical stance, is objectively better

That isn't inherently obvious at all. You're demanding that people spend their own money on inefficient, possibly outdated, DEFINITELY NOT inherently noble companies just because they happen to be local.

If it was someone's life ambition to run a grocery store, I'm sorry: this isn't the 1920's. Franchise a Publix or get a job that actually fits into the modern economy.

It's pretty clear that I've spent time studying economics -- I'm not so sure we can say the same about you.

>>7046356
you were just whining how everyone is "forced" to buy books on amazon, and you also whined that they don't pay anything to their workers...so wow there seems to be a lot of revenue coming and not much going out in labor costs so where did the money go?

>>7046368
I wasn't that guy. I was just interested in how a company can stay in the market while losing money every year.

>>7046356
>>7046353
The only way Amazon stays afloat these days is because investors still have faith in them. They reinvest all of their profit into innovation, but they also still have investor confidence.

One day that may change, and in fact I believe it will change, and something new will come to take their place or at least compete on even terms. Until then, there is no reason consumers should be spending their money on inferior options.

>>7045948
>believing that the concentration and centralization of capital can be prevented by a small group of users on an image board
Either way, your bookstore will go bust eventually.

>>7046423
There's really nothing wrong with "centralizing" the piddling amount of capital that Amazon has.

There's a lot wrong with centralizing 100% of capital through the federal government, but that's a different story.

Pointing out its cheaper is one thing but arguing having no local bookstores is somehow a good thing is completely absurd.

>>7046447
like i said i have two local bookstores, the last time i shopped at one the shit was overpriced and they didn't have what i really wanted...if they disappeared tomorrow nothing of value would be lost.

>>7046451
on the other hand if amazon disappeared tomorrow i would be seriously bummed

>>7046447
What value does a local bookstore provide? Again, there's no rule that says we need them.

You could rally your townsfolk together and ensure that all of you buy from that bookstore, but all you'd really be doing is making a conscientious effort to waste your money when you could have made the purchase online and had cash to spare on other things you might want.

We don't live in a world where we must go out of our way to save every job, as if no new ones ever open (again, think back to horse-drawn carriages). There may be a day when robots make it so that no jobs exist anymore, but by the time that day comes, you would expect that we have a welfare system in place to cope with it.

>>7045854
>>7045854
it wouldn't be so bad if they had a reason to fear the internet Rather than exploit it. I remember when you could find pdf's and epubs online for free easily. practically anybook you want and you didnt have to jump through hoops for it. now i have to drive an hour just to get a book or wait 4 or 5 days for delivery because i refuse to suckle at amazons tit.

>>7046465
So let's get this straight. You're complaining because you can't illegally download books anymore (p.s. you still can), and you purposely waste your money and gas to buy physical books from physical stores because you "refuse to suckle at amazons tit".

Why? What value are these choices bringing to you?

>>7046465
so buy it off ebay instead ya goofus

>>7046465
>I remember when you could find pdf's and epubs online for free easily.
So right now?

If anything, amazon has helped book piracy by making ebooks much more available.

>>7046465
let's face it the real reason you don't like amazon is because you don't get to feel smug when you walk up to the cashier and put some "patrician" shit down for them to to scan, well, why don't you get a life

>>7046475
i think you are misinterpreting what i'm complaining about, it's not the fact i can't download illegal shit, its that amazon has no real competition, not even an illegal one when it comes to the internet.
also i do like the feel of real paper in my hands when i read, but that's just aesthetics and i only personally enjoy it when I'm reading an all time favorite.

>>7046488
You win. You can handle human interaction. Mommy sends groceries to my house once a week and I have to take 15mg of Valium an hour before the grocery clerk delivers.

>>7046494
Well why don't you quit your faggot ragging and start your own amazon killer company to put them under? So then you can be the only person who sells books.

>>7046459
>what value do healthy local businesses provide

Do you really need it explained to you why having local shops you can walk to where you know the owners is a good thing?

Money spent on keeping town centres healthy is not 'wasted' because it directly benefits the community and encourages people to go outside and walk. Towns where all the local shops are closed up look shabby and poor for a reason.

>>7046494
Without getting into the competition argument, let me ask "what do you want?" Are Amazon's prices not cheap enough for you? Are they not cheaper than any actual bookstore? It seems to me like they have a lot of competition, and they're beating it consistently.

In those cases where Amazon's books are not actually cheaper, I see no reason not to buy elsewhere. Bookstores DO have online storefronts, you know.

>>7046494
amazon has tons of competition: barnes and noble, ebay, walmart, etc. it's just they all suck. it's like you're mad that amazon is too good at serving it's customers. you usually see this kind of haterism in sports like how people hate floyd mayweather because no one can come close to beating him, but why are you hating a company for providing service so fucking good no one else can come close even though many try? slave morality as a shopping strategy is just the stupidest thing possible

God, the petit bourgeoisie are the fucking worst class. Kind of people who voted for the Nazis

>>7046502
>Do you really need it explained to you why having local shops you can walk to where you know the owners is a good thing?

Yeah, i do. There's a tool shop down the street from me, run by this old asshole. He charges about 1.5x what i can buy the exact same tools off amazon, and plus i don't have to hear the old asshole tell me hour and a half long stories about how he fixed his truck in the middle of nowhere with a fence post and a crescent wrench.

>>7045854
>b-b-bb-but muh brick and mortar
no one cares

>>7046502
if the local bookstore goes out of business it will just be replaced by some other upscale boutique like "rag and bone" or some shit...places with dead town centers are dead because they are populated by uneducated retards with no skills (who don't read anyways). if you want a healthy "town center" (read: real estate market) you're better off opening a gay bar and an indie rock venue than some shitty bookstore

>>7046502
There's a lot of things that can be said to this, but I think the most interesting would be the part about "going outside and walking." In order to do that, more than having or not having local businesses, you actually have to have a city or a town that was constructed such that walking is even an option. For the vast majority of US cities, that is not the case at all.

Going to a "local" bookstore requires a 10-20 minute drive for the average person. If all you're concerned about is not having a sense of community or a small town feel, the existence of local businesses should be the least of your worries. Talk about adding more walking paths, building things closer together, limiting automobile use, and things like that.

>>7046494
You want to download physical books?

>>7045854
what value does a local books stare of me >the average consumer> over amazon? think long and hard about this.

>my face when Americans live by the dollar

>>7046530
Oh wow, I totally fucked that up. lets try that again.

What value does the local book store offer me, the average consumer, over Amazon?

>>7046530
Well, if there's a 6/10 chick with a boyfriend working there, you can go there every day and show how awesome you are by talking about the books you like and how all the books she likes are horrible, you know, and just generally annoy and harass her until her boyfriend tracks you down and beats the shit out of you, and then you don't leave your mom's basement for a decade.

It's all about life experiences.

>>7046538
>What value does the local book store offer me, the average consumer, over Amazon?

Human interaction, helping your countrymen, and not giving shekels to a corporation.

>>7046535
The only reason Europe is not the same way is because your backwards government makes it illegal or "effectively illegal" through various protectionist measures.

The result? Europeans pay a fuckton for everything they buy, not to mention taxes.

>>7046511
Not that guy but one of the few (and possibly only) advantages the brick and mortar tool shop has is speed. You can get a tool from there in 10 to 20 minutes to fix a problem now while with Amazon you would have to wait especially if you order something on a weekend to receive said tool.

>>7046543
Does this value actually outweigh the convince and low price offered by amazon? Are local stores actually providing this value to consumers or was that just a thought exercise?

>>7046543
Corporations are comprised of your countrymen, you know. West coast STEM workers piss money like it's going out of style. When you buy a book and it goes into their salary, that money immediately flows back into the economy as those autists spend it.

I don't really see your complaint, other than nominally your money is moving from Wichita to Seattle. Inevitably, you may have to move to Seattle too, but that has been the story of commercial centers since the age of Babylon.

In the meanwhile, Amazon is making your life unquestionably better (and I somewhat doubt you actually talk to the cute girl at the counter of your local bookstore, so stop bitching).

>>7046546
That's probably the only reason brick and mortar stores still exist, tbh

>>7046543
amazon is part of my country, and as mitt romney once said "corporations are people, friend", anyone can buy shares of amazon, it's not privately owned, unlike your local book merchant.

>>7046546
This. Until Amazon rolls out same day delivery in my area and even then brick and mortar might still be faster for same day needs.

>>7046561
>mitt romney once said "corporations are people, friend"

Corporation are not people. Romney was backed by corporations, so he will spew their kike drivel.

>>7046559
but what if i buy my hammer at Home Depot Corporation? have i still stuck it to the man because i didn't use the internet?

>>7046564
so people stop being people once they organize together?

>>7046552
>Amazon is making your life unquestionably better

Just because I can save two or three dollars by buying through amazon doesn't make them better. Stop thinking like a robot.

Kek

>>7046564
public corporations are owned by the people, they're the closest thing to communism that actually works. instead of crying why don't you get your money up and buy some shares my dude?

>>7046546
well the problem i have with tool stores (and any brick and mortar store really), is there's no guarantee they're going to have what you want.

I also don't like how people who work at these places are trained to act like dicks when confronted by unknown products.

I can't count how many times i go in, ask "Hey do you have x?" they look at you like you're a crazy street person. "Yeah, i never heard of that, so you must be nuts or some shit, go away."

It's never like, "Well i've never heard of that, but let me look it up and see here,"

So that's annoying. Anymore i get sick of going to stores that won't have the shit, you waste an hour looking for it at different places, the employees act like dicks.

So fuck it, go on amazon, wow amazing, the fucking thing is right there! At a price cheaper than everyone else', and probably has free shipping.

>>7045866
>Kind of a moot point at this stage.

What's so debatable about it?

>>7046575
>get your money up and buy some shares my dude

Because there's more to life than earning more money.

>>7046574
so you're trying to tell me the local bookstore is better because everything costs more? i know this kind of pricing has worked for certain goods like liquor, clothing, but in general that is a hard sell bro

>>7046565
I'll let one of the libeshits answer that. It doesn't mean anything to me. You made the most efficient decision for yourself, and that's the economic best-case.

>>7046574
Two things: it makes YOUR LIFE better, which is what I said the first time, and secondly no one has really made a valid, logically sound case for how Amazon is worse.

So ultimately, they ARE better, and they DO make things better for you (the consumer). Don't forget, Amazon participates in a lot more industries than just shipping products cheaply and quickly to its customers. AWS and the Fire suite of products are just two examples in which they are highly competitive.

>>7046585
Buying through your local bookstore is better for the community than buying from a corporation who's headquarters are in a different state, a state that will receive all the tax revenue instead of yours.

So what if it costs more? If one can afford to spend a bit more money to help their community, then they should.

>>7046586
>it makes YOUR LIFE better

Care to elaborate more? You keep saying it without any evidence.

>>7046575
How would you make money off of investing in Amazon if they lose money every year? No I don't know much about how corporations work.

>>7046583
And Amazon does not take away from that. People keep hyping up the mythical "local bookstore" as if anybody here actually knows of one.

I know of a couple, and they're still in business because conscientious shoppers (aka hipster faggots) support them indefinitely, because the existence of such places matters to them, and in some cases because the shop in question actually does provide a legitimate value-add service to their customers.

There's nothing wrong with that, but for most people Amazon is better. If not because it saves you money, then because it saves you TIME to live your life to the fullest.

>You keep saying it without any evidence

Oh FUCK OFF with that, if you actually thought that was a legitimate rebuttal. Read the thread. Cheaper prices, faster shipping, better selection, amazing customer service, and that's JUST the "amazon storefront." They do like 50 billion other things well, but the storefront experience alone blows any local shop out of the water most of the time.

>>7046593
>So what if it costs more? If one can afford to spend a bit more money to help their community, then they should.
Or it saves you money allowing to to spend that extra money at other local stores that are more efficient and competitive.

you trying to say that people saving money is detrimental is a losing battle.

>>7046594
Their stock price keeps going up. The miracle of investor confidence, as was alluded to earlier in the thread. There's a lot of amazon hype on Wall Street.

I personally wouldn't recommend investing in Amazon because you've already missed the boat (for one thing) and because the fact that they lose money every year means that eventually investor confidence will wane.

>>7046593
>Care to elaborate more? You keep saying it without any evidence.

Because they provide a cheaper, faster, service than everyone else.

You know....btw, you're not force to buy off amazon, dick-hole. You can just not buy from them, then like.....end of discussion. Go to your faggot circle jerk book store, and shut the hell up.

>>7046611
>The miracle of investor confidenc

Most of the american economy is based off this little honey.

>Doesn't matter if you're making or losing money.
>As long as people believes you're making money, you do.

>>7046594
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=amzn+Interactive#{%22range%22:%22max%22,%22allowChartStacking%22:true}

>>7046604
Does saving a few dollars really make you life all that much better? Maybe for people close or in poverty, but for the average working class person, saving two or three dollars won't make their life any better.

You make it seem that supporting local business is wrong. You must be a typical American who has never left the country.

But this country lives by the dollar, so it doesn't surprise me when Americans think that they will be exponentially happier when they buy from Amazon instead of the local stores.

If anything, buying from the local book store will make you happier because you know you are supporting the small business and the family who owns it, instead of giving more money to fat cats in their headquarters at the other end of the country.

>>7046617
In Amazon's case, it is because investors believe that ONE DAY Amazon will retain their profits; they believe that the investments in innovation that Amazon is making today will pay dividends (figuratively and literally) in the future.

Amazon's revenue is staggering. They don't NEED to reinvest it, but Jeff Bezos has decided they will invest it anyway in order to be even better in the future.

Your call if you agree. I'm not buying, but I'll still fleece Amazon for everything they're worth via Amazon Prime.

>>7046611
>Their stock price keeps going up
So they make money selling their stocks to someone else holding onto their shares until they think it is high as it is going to go?

>>7045854
The fact that Amazon is succeeding is a tribute to the power of capitalism. If you're a self-respecting capitalist in here and you're complaining about Amazon because of its powerful and efficient business strategies, just fucking admit you're a Marxist and leave.

>>7046636
>polarizing economic thought this much

>>>/pol/

>>7046627
>If anything, buying from the local book store will make you happier because you know you are supporting the small business

small business owners are smug pricks who think they're john galt but then cry like a baby if they face any disruption in their industry, i'm not sure how helping someone like that is considered a good thing...

>>7046639
The only people dumber than Marxists are "middle-roaders".

You people would mix gold with shit and try to sell it at a higher value.

Local new bookstores suck, but I regularly go to used book stores in my area. Sorry I don't feel obligated to patronize failing businesses to keep them afloat with pity money. Local new book stores offer me nothing Amazon doesn't and I'm not spending extra money and going out of my way to give money to the sullen hipster behind the counter instead of Amazon.

>>7046627
I'm more on board with the fact that Amazon saves time, even if it saves money too. Saving $2 on your purchases will eventually add up to a reasonable amount of money, but saving an hour+ of shopping on a day-to-day basis adds up fast.

As for the local business canard, it's been discussed several times already, and the fact of the matter is that local businesses are hit or miss. Indeed, deciding that you and your family will RUN a business is hit or miss. It is a risky proposition, and some families decided to take that risk, and I have no obligation to support them. Rather, it is their obligation to make it worth my while to support them. They are running a business, after all. Providing value is what they are SUPPOSED to be doing. If they can't compete with bigger companies, the reason would be because they never had a viable business plan to begin with. It is their fault, not mine.

The reason things are different abroad is mostly because of government protectionism, which is not a long term solution, and presumably there will be consequences within your lifetime. People in Greece, Spain, and Ireland got to be the vanguard for the "new european experience" after decades of uncompetitive behavior and massive government spending to prop up the "local families" that ought to have engaged in more profitable work.

Buying from Amazon does not make me happy in and of itself, but having extra money and time gives me the opportunity to make myself happy.

>>7046641
>small business owners are smug pricks who think they're john galt but then cry like a baby if they face any disruption in their industry, i'm not sure how helping someone like that is considered a good thing...

That's because the effects of supporting local business extend beyond short term to long term.

Most people only have a rough understanding of economics.

It's better to support local business who cycles the money back into the community. There's a lot of criticism of corporation because a lot of them try to avoid taxes by moving their head quarters overseas, like burger king did. These are taxes that people and communities are missing out on. Thus, buying from corporations comes at the consumer's expense in the long run.

>>7046657
Then the problem should be about enforcing your taxes and cracking down on those who evade taxes by hiding their earnings in overseas shell accounts.

Don't make it about local businesses, because they really have nothing to do with this. If anything, they're having to deal with oppressive tax regimes that they're not advanced enough to escape.

Tax reform is a big deal for me, so of course it is great that it will never be considered seriously by any presidential or congressional candidates in the US.

>>7046655
Why would you post a photo of Sowell?

>Saving $2 on your purchases will eventually add up to a reasonable amount of money, but saving an hour+ of shopping on a day-to-day basis adds up fast.

That's not true. You're not accounting for inflation and the value lost of a dollar from today than from one tomorrow.

>>7046641
There's a small business owner around here who was dumping tons of toxic chemicals in the storm drains, which ended up costing the community several millions of dollars to clean up.

Another one i know was spending money on trips to get sucked off by 10 year olds and film it, until he got busted.

Just because somebody has a small business doesn't mean they're automatically attributing something to your local economy. Hell, as with all businesses, they're probably dicking your over somehow. Pun intended.

>>7045948
Amazon exists solely to make money. Your local bookstore exists solely to make money. Every fucking business that has ever existed has been created with the stated goal of making money. Convincing yourself that a business has any other intentions just because they're "oh so indie lol" is fucking stupid. Your local bookstore owner might be passionate about literature, but he didn't open that bookstore to promote knowledge and educate the masses. If you think your local bookstore has any more "soul" than Amazon, it's all in your head.

>>7046663
>Then the problem should be about enforcing your taxes and cracking down on those who evade taxes by hiding their earnings in overseas shell accounts.

But that's not possible because corporations run this country. Why do you ask? Because Americans live by the dollar.

>>7045928
there was a piece in the ny times only a week ago about how even the developers at amazon get treated like shit

>>7046664
Because at this point I'm practically quoting from a few of his books and yet you still somehow think you have the high ground of economic insight on this matter. The fact that you're bringing inflation or the time-value of money into a conversation about saving money on day-to-day purchases might be an indicator that you hold no such position. The fact that I said right afterward that I was more concerned with saved time than saved money, and you ignored that, is an indicator that you're not interested in considering that Amazon actually IS better than local bookstores.

>>7046675
Europeans do too, the government just takes most of your dollars away in taxation and distributes it to businesses that would fail in a proper economy. If you live in Germany, good luck to you. You may be the last country standing in the Eurozone. If you live in Greece, maybe you need to take a second look at your stance on the value of supporting businesses that ought not to exist.

Along that same line, consider the fact that the Eurozone doesn't even HAVE companies like Amazon or Google, because the economic climate can't support them.

I'm glad to have Amazon, but I don't think it matters.

Where I live is a dead zone for book stores. Without a means of personal transportation, there are no bookstores in the area at all. As it is I can always hop a train and spend a weekend in the nearest major city which still hosts half a dozen bookstores, plus B&N.

With Amazon, they are the means of last resort. It's not that I have a problem with them, it's just that every other online bookstore aggregator has better deals. Amazon has the greatest selection, and on occasion they are the only source.

Maybe it would be different if I was in the new book market. Old, used, so-so physical quality is always fine by me.

>>7046670
>Amazon exists solely to make money. Your local bookstore exists solely to make money.

I'm not denying that, but Amazon's effect on the American economy is it hurting small business, which employs many millions of people. Therefore, people shouldn't support it by buying from it.

When your local bookstore closes down, then there are people in your community who are out of work and aren't contributing to local economy, maybe even taking away from it.

>>7046679
If employees at Amazon, from the box packers to the developers, want working at Amazon to be like working at a local bookstore, then they have every right to unionize and demand it.

Some unions are bad, but these workers who have never had a union at all might find it worthwhile to learn from the unions that actually did some good in the past.

At any rate, that's a separate issue from the one about whether or not Amazon is better than local bookstores.

>>7046683
So maybe they should get another job. Or maybe they should come up with a better business plan before taking a loan from the bank to start a bookstore in 2015.

>>7046681
>Because at this point I'm practically quoting from a few of his books and yet you still somehow think you have the high ground of economic insight on this matter. The fact that you're bringing inflation or the time-value of money into a conversation about saving money on day-to-day purchases might be an indicator that you hold no such position. The fact that I said right afterward that I was more concerned with saved time than saved money, and you ignored that, is an indicator that you're not interested in considering that Amazon actually IS better than local bookstores.

First off, Sowell focuses on social and racial economics, so please show me where you are quoting him.

>Saving $2 on your purchases will eventually add up to a reasonable amount of money

Are you upset that I called you out on something that is objectively wrong?

Inflation is something you must account for when dealing with the long term, and, quite frankly, two dollars today is immensely more valuable than two in 15 years.

The only thing you really are right about is your stance on leisure.

>>7046681
>because the economic climate can't support them.
All things being equal I think a company in the US would still have it easier because they start in a larger market where everybody speaks the same language and roughly follows the same rules.

>>7046306
>talks shit about Amazon because of how it might affect workers
>talks shit about poor people too
What's your argument against Amazon if you don't care about poor people?

>>7046683
I can't imagine working for amazon, or a local bookstore would be much different. Both dead end, low paying jobs.

How many local bookstores are paying their employees 40k a year, with benefits, unionized, with profit sharing and vacation time?

Yeah, dream on. Your local bookstore, like most all modern business, doesn't pay shit. Why are we concerned with saving those type of jobs?

Another point, by dealing with the online bookstore aggregators, and this includes Amazon to a certain extent, you may be ignoring your local stores but are still supporting others. As long as they remain viable, who cares?

Amazon's not the ideal here, but they're not quite the angel of death either.

>>7046690
Probably.

Same goes with all the hopeful Americans who think they can open up a successful restaurant, even when they all fail 4 out of 5 times.

But that's the beauty of our economy-- trying, failing, and continuing to try. That's what makes our economy thrive, not corporation that are convincing more and more of these hopeful entrepreneurs that their efforts are fruitless.

>>7046683
Who the fuck has "book store clerk" in mind as a career? Your local bookstore employs college students who have jobs at Starbucks lined up for them if they fail. I also don't feel bad about small business owners that fail. You overestimated your ability to survive in an extremely competitive market. Tough shit.

>>7046698
The people in poverty don't really have as much impact on the economy as do the wealthy and middle class.

>>7046701
>implying

Corporations pay their employees at the minimum wage, too.

>Why should we support local business?

Because they are giving jobs to Americans where there aren't very many options for employment.

>>7046692
>social and racial economics

kek. Maybe you should take a look at pic related sometime.

>Are you upset that I called you out on something that is objectively wrong?

You think it is objectively wrong because you are literally retarded and you're not thinking about the situation I'm describing. Let's say you are shopping every couple days and you save $2 every time you use Amazon to shop. That's at least $300-400 you've saved in a given year.

If you invest that money, you've already beaten inflation. But you don't even need to do that. Just spend that $400 on something else entirely. I'm not telling you to make a fucking savings account of it. The money you save each year should be invested anyway.

What you're ACTUALLY proposing, if we go back to your initial post:
>the value lost of a dollar from today

You're basically recommending that the person should spend all of their money on a more expensive option today (buying a book from a local bookstore) instead of saving the $2 on Amazon because it's better than losing a fraction of a fraction of a cent to inflation over the several weeks-to-months timespan before they find a better use for the $2.

Let me put it simply: inflation is not a factor here. We're talking about a topic as basic as "why should you buy things on sale". To save some money that you can use on something else. Including investing, if you want.

>>7046664
>You're not accounting for inflation and the value lost of a dollar from today than from one tomorrow.
What the fuck are you talking about? If you buy shit on Amazon and save $20 in one month (assuming you would have bought all the other stuff at local stores otherwise) how am I not saving a reasonable amount of money? How much purchasing power do you think the dollar loses? Inflation is fucking 0.2% right now you retard.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

>live in non-English speaking country
>local bookstores only have a sparse selection of English books
>Amazon has all of them

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy visiting bookstores and would like to buy things there more often, but it frequently isn't possible.

>>7046714
>Corporations pay their employees at the minimum wage, too.

Yeah, no shit, that was my point. You make it sound like small business magically create amazing jobs with awesome benefits. They have the same shitty jobs that corporations have.

>Because they are giving jobs to Americans where there aren't very many options for employment.

Are you really giving somebody a "job?" when they don't have healthcare. With their shitty wage they're probably dependent on some government assistance?

Once again, small business are just as bad as the evil corporations in this manner.

>>7046726

Amazon typically has "all of them" but usually not for the best price. Spend some time looking at the others (thriftbooks, etc.).

Of course, not everyone is willing to ship to bumfuck Egypt, or wherever, so Amazon may be your only option. You should at least try to find alternatives though.

>>7046741
How is thriftbooks?

You can buy used ones from amazon, i've never had good luck with that though. Always torn to shit, all kinds of markings in them, etc.

Is there ANYONE reading this thread who doesn't believe the socialists and small-businessfags have been utterly BTFO?

I personally think it's pretty fucked up that we're still going around in circles right now. All that's happening is the same nebulous argument that "small businesses are good" against the tidal wave of examples that some are good and some are bad, and Amazon is superior to all of them on average, AND that it is better for the economy that the best businesses be supported rather than propping up the worst out of sentimental desire.

>>7046741
Alternatives should try to find you if they care about staying in business.

Here in Germany all books have a fixed price, so Amazon and my local bookshop charge the same amount
Hence there are loads of independent bookshops where I live. I can order any book I want to be sent there the next day from their online catalogue. Pretty based.

>>7046775
All this is doing is deferring the cost somewhere else. Ze Germans seem to love doing this, and their economy is in really great shape and could last for a long time in this way (because most of their major corporations actually still add value to the economy, despite the bullshit). But one day, we will look at Germany and call them "New Greece".

>>7046780
>we will look at Germany and call them "New Greece".
Why? They aren't suffering from severe corruption.

>>7046756

Thriftbooks is my favorite, but they're no different from Amazon this regard: if you order used, you get used.

I'm not sure if they're the best for ordering new. As I said earlier I'm not in the market for new. Yesterdays cheap, readable, and biologically inactive books are all I'm asking for, and that what I receive. No complaints.

And neither Amazon nor Thriftbooks are the last say here. There's more, look around some.

>>7046757
>who doesn't believe the socialists and small-businessfags have been utterly BTFO?

Were not being BTFO, it's just you ignorant capitalists who lack a soul and any sympathy for your countrymen.

>>7046775
Their prices are usually competitive here in the states. Like yeah, amazon usually isn't much cheaper, but i like the convenience. I can go on, order some books, get incense, buy a fucking bayonet, and a whiskey glass all in the same place, delivered to my door.

I even buy auto parts from them, if you look up the prices, it's usually similar or a little less than the parts store. But this way it shows up on my doorstep along with a bunch of other shit, saving me a trip. Hell, a lot of the time the stuff comes from the same place you would regularly buy it from, but at least this way they ship it to you.

Weird shit happens sometimes. I bought this set of meter leads, free shipping, they shipped it all the way from china. Took like 3 weeks to get here.

>>7046788
The thing about corruption is that you don't know it's there until they get caught.

But that's not really the big deal. Greece didn't go under because of corruption, they went under because of an unsustainable economy (partially bolstered by corruption). Most countries in Europe are the same way, but just not on the same point in the timeline.

The Eurozone is a flaming garbage fire, and far too complex to really get into here, but I'll go with the most simple thing possible: books do not all have the same price, but in Germany, the government forces resellers to sell them for the same price. That means that somebody, somewhere is paying the difference. Given that books are not the only part of the economy that Germans fuck with, it might just turn out to be Germans 50 years from now.

I live in West Virginia faggot all we have is Books a Million and they ditched their philosophy section & their history section when they realized they can make more money by having three aisles of fundie self help Christfaggot garbage for middle aged women.
Hail Amazon. Dunno what id do without it.

>>7046797
>you textile manufacturers and automobile manufacturers have no soul or any sympathy for your countrymen
>look at all the lost jobs for seamstresses and horse-drawn carriage operators
>fast forward to 2015
>everyone has affordable clothing, down to the most poor person in america
>automobiles everywhere
>auto industry created millions more jobs than the "horse" industry ever did

You don't have a fucking clue what is best for your countrymen. ESPECIALLY if you think propping up dying businesses is the answer.

>>7045854
Ever since I bought a Kindle, I haven't wasted a single cent on buying books from Amazon.
Checkmate, capitalist pigdogs.

>>7046813
>>you textile manufacturers and automobile manufacturers have no soul or any sympathy for your countrymen
>>look at all the lost jobs for seamstresses and horse-drawn carriage operators
>>fast forward to 2015
>>everyone has affordable clothing, down to the most poor person in america
>>automobiles everywhere
>>auto industry created millions more jobs than the "horse" industry ever did

>>7046818
There is always a distinct possibility that you will be arrested and forced to pay fines for every book you illegally steal.

Just come back to /lit/ when it happens and I'll be happy to show you a screenshot of your "capitalist pigdogs" quote.

>>7046775
>price floors and ceilings
top kek

>>7046757
It was recently exposed that Amazon engages in abhorrent employee regulation practices.

As a business, it will succeed because it is so efficient. Smaller businesses will be destroyed. Without government intervention, there runs the risk of monopoly, but more importantly, there runs the risk of this enormous corporation chasing the bottom line to such an extent that working for them is an exercise in cruelty and punishment - if there is no alternative to working for Amazon available within their particular market, you might see how this is a bad thing for society in general.

>>7046828
in your dreams jeff bezos

>>7046840
>It was recently exposed that Amazon engages in abhorrent employee regulation practices.

Meh, every corporation egages in abhorrent employee regulation practices. Starbucks being one of the worst out there, but motherfuckers are lining up to buy coffee, new ones built every day.

Not saying it's good, but it's a reality anymore. Doesn't really affect my opinion of a company anymore.

>>7046840
Monopolies aren't real.

I think we all agree the working practices at Amazon (and in the US, and in the world in general) are not going down a good road, and I welcome the onset of some new-school unions to combat that.

IT workers have never had proper unions, and I think they could get a lot done before devolving into the fuckfest that destroyed the auto industry's competitiveness. In fact, given what we know about the auto industry and other manufacturing industries that unionized, we should be able to build unions that improve working conditions without sacrificing economic viability too much.

All I'm really asking for is that the labor market, which is every bit as much of a market as any other, takes some action to secure more favorable conditions for themselves, rather than letting themselves be exploited. It needs to happen in the US just as much as it needs to happen in China or elsewhere. It will come with a global rise in prices that I, for one, am willing to pay for if it means that people can stop bawwing about this.

>>7046857
>Monopolies aren't real.

stopped reading right there

>>7046862
Yeah, well, cheers on not knowing as much about economics as you think you do and being just a little more ignorant because of it.

Being proud of how ignorant you are is a distinctly American trait.

>>7046872
>google
>amazon
>apple
>boeing/ (the other airplane maker, I don't remember)

list goes on, mate :^)

>>7046872
>Being proud of how ignorant you are is a distinctly American trait.

Yeah, well talking like a fag is a euro one.

>>7046888
kek

>>7046886
>those companies
>monopolies

Even if they were, you have to ask yet again "are they or are they not providing a net benefit to the consumer". In all 4 cases, they absolutely are. Each has done amazing things in their field that has quite literally advanced the state of human progress.

If no one can compete (which isn't true), and they're offering the best in their class at the most affordable prices in their class, what the actual FUCK are you even complaining about?

Part of the definition of being a monopoly is that they make things WORSE for the customer.

>>7046900
They are essentially monopolies because it's almost impossible to enter those markets now.

>Part of the definition of being a monopoly is that they make things WORSE for the customer.

kek

>>7046872
but the thing is monopolies ARE REAL.
they typically take on the form of an illusion known as an oligarchy made up of a handful of corporations that function on cooperative game theory... look at the oil industry

>>7046908
>They are essentially monopolies because it's almost impossible to enter those markets now.

But it isn't impossible, and in fact neither of those four companies are in any way "secure" in their "dominance", if only because of the risk of self-inflicted damage due to poor business practices. Besides, they all have competitors in some shape or form.

>kek

>saying "kek" to the literal definition of the term
As defined by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, I believe? Looks like we've got another "ignorant and proud" American on our hands. Fuck yourself with your own dick, you stupid fuck.

>>7046911
Cartels are real. Monopolies, not so much. The other key difference is that monopolies collapse, and cartels can maintain themselves indefinitely. I absolutely believe that some legislation should always be in place to mitigate the effects of cartelization, but monopolies? Meh. Anti-trust act did more harm than good.

>>7046900
>Even if they were, you have to ask yet again "are they or are they not providing a net benefit to the consumer".

This is a questionable line of thought. Net benefit in relation to what? If they did not exist at all, or if they existed in a space that allowed competitors to get a decent shot at success in?

Let's suppose there is only one car manufacturer in a country. From one perspective, they provide a net benefit to the consumer in that if they did not exist, there would be no cars available.

However, if they did not have a monopoly on the market, entry into vehicle manufacture would be easier. New companies would attempt to compete with this original company for market share. R&D would be under pressure to improve and innovate the vehicles being produced. Marketing would be under pressure to lower the price on cars. In this scenario, the consumer is receiving a net benefit that outclasses that of the first scenario.

>>7046926
>>saying "kek" to the literal definition of the term
>As defined by the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, I believe? Looks like we've got another "ignorant and proud" American on our hands. Fuck yourself with your own dick, you stupid fuck.

It's not a definition but a repercussion of monopolies.

>cry harder faggot

Try starting a search engine that can compete with the likes of google, you enormous faggot.

>referencing an outdated law from 1890

Monopolies have an entirely different meaning now and impact on the economy.

>>7046828
>There is always a distinct possibility that you will be arrested and forced to pay fines for every book you illegally steal.
Not all of us live in cyberpunk dystopias. In some countries, non-commercial file sharing isn't even illegal.

>>7046937
Those companies were all new companies at one point. Compared to where we were before them, where we are now is unquestionably better. THAT is what "net benefit" means here.

We could open a case study on all four and how they are today, but since this thread is about Amazon, and we already have an entire thread of discussion about it, we can look at them. They have plenty of competitors between corporate bookstores and local bookstores -- Amazon outcompetes all of them almost 100% of the time. What more do you want?

Best customer service, best shipping times, best selection, best prices. If you think they could do better, for fuck's sake, email Bezos. What you should be asking is how companies like Barnes 'n Noble fucked up so badly that some faggot internet startup from 1994 was able to get to Amazon's status today while B&N is all but gone.

>>7046951
name 5 in the first world.

>>7046947
Bing and Duck Duck Go both exist and you can use them if you would like.

>Monopolies have an entirely different meaning now and impact on the economy.

Now it's my term to say kek. Let's hear this "different meaning". Given that you have no formal or even INFORMAL background in economics, this should be the last good kek before this thread starts to slip to page 10.

>Tfw I just went to my local book shop and it was closed.

Only B&N, Half-price books and Amazon options for me now.

>>7047419
ebay bro that's my forst choice, since it has the feeling of a used bookstore mixed with a swap meet but barnes and noble also has an account in case you really need a new copy of some shit, plus you might luck out and get a big ass lot...i got a rad hermann hesse lot last year, still didn't read it all. that said i will unapologetically order from amazon if they have what i want for a low price, idgaf

The only issue I have with Amazon is that they no longer package their books properly. Literally every book I order is thrown into a box that's too big for it and it arrives damaged. Sometimes it'll be nothing, sometimes the book will be fucking dented and banged up.

Anyone else have this issue with Amazon? Is there anywhere with similar prices but good shipping? Anyone bought anything online from B&N?

>>7047469
yeah i had that, not with books specifically but they put it in too big of a box then when some dickhead stacks a bunch of shit on it one of the lids gets pushed down and faggots can look in your order...i picked up a box of shit at my mailbox over the summer and the box was sitting there half open cuz of that, some shit could have fell out of got stolen, plus what if i order some shit like mein kampf or sth

>>7045854
>killing your local book store
It's like

I love the store itself
But if it means it'd put the insufferable employees out on the streets, I'd download the entire shelf of bestsellers onto my phone, in front of their faces.

>>7045907
>support small business
I saw a sewing service in a shopping center near a city a few hours away from me one time, with a sign saying "Support your small businesses! We need your support!"

If you have to beg for money, perhaps the demand isn't there. I hate how people try to hide the obvious trend of ~2010's job whiners that moved on to making small business and now they are whining that even that is not working out for them.

If people aren't rallying against the government, they're rallying against muh big corporations. There's no winning.

What're we talking about?

>>7046704
>not corporation that are convincing more and more of these hopeful entrepreneurs that their efforts are fruitless.
"Corporations" are a title given to non-human entities for the purpose of bookkeeping. Any convincing being done is done by witless and insecure people to themselves.

>>7047530
>But if it means it'd put the insufferable employees out on the streets, I'd download the entire shelf of bestsellers onto my phone, in front of their faces.

yeah there are these obnoxious 20 something plebby girls that work at my local "indie" bookstore that always make a snarky comment if you buy anything non-fiction, i ordered a programming book and they're like "ooo sounds like a good read" sarcastically. i was thinking yeah, it's why i don't work as a retail cashier you fucking retard, but instead i just left and ordered future books off amazon

>>7047550
corporations are people my friend

>>7047564
So are all the sovereign countries, the UN, the EU, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, etc.
The concept of persona iuris comes from Roman law, it's not a new invention.

>>7047428
I'd go to ebay if it weren't for Paypal.

Fuck paypal.

>>7047726
paypal is fucking great you shitlord, unless you actually enjoy getting your credit card number stolen every time some database gets hacked

>>7047748
Yes, but paypal is a bitch deal with if you have a your CC stolen.

>>7047776
dude i have like $500 in my paypal right for shitpurchasing, never had a problem with it

>>7046149
That kind of proves his point though doesn't it

>>7047786
>shitpurchasing
as opposed to qualitypurchasing? is this post post post speak?

I literally goodbought a McMeme and implying it wasn't tasty la-ole much yum hashtag yoh low eye tee tee who else ate food here?

>>7045884
Give your money to the white people who laugh at dfw and own amazon instead. Good thinking anon

>>7047469
>>7047510
My last two orders have had books all bent to shit. They gave me replacements no questions asked but there's still the hassle of returning the damaged books.

>>7045854
>local bookstore

Yeah good one.

>implying there are any local book stores left here
>my local store is a Barnes & Noble
>not wanting to see this die

>>7045866
>moot
who?

>>7046109
physical books look nice; can be collectible items.
piracy is both more efficient and more frugal.

>>7046569
>framing the issue in such a way as to make the correct answer counter-intuitive / using specific language in such a way as to muddle and confuse the matter
nice

>>7047530
What's wrong with the employees?

you guys know why they call it "kindle". the beginning of the end for print books and start of the endless DRM nightmare

>>7046651
0/10

>>7045866
>tfw my local city is filled with massive amounts bookstores
feelsgoodman.jpeg

>>7046757
>socialists and small-businessfags have been utterly BTFO
'small-business,' sure; and where 'socialists' would recommend you do small/local business. but this guy >>7045932, etc/

>>7046805
>The thing about corruption is that you don't know it's there until they get caught.
No, it's all about being skeptical of every person that has to do with the government and looking at the right places.

>>7046809

BaM took over what was the local Borders superstore about three months after they went tits up.

One the one hand, it's nice they reinstalled a café, and maintained the Borders tradition of allowing various musicians to take over a corner and jam out for a few hours.

On the other hand:
>three aisles of fundie self help Christfaggot garbage for middle aged women.

Yeah, they have this weird fixation with "spiritually" themed works, and about a fifth of the floor space is given over to this section. At least they keep stocked things like Bukowski's poetry and various works of de Sade. I give them credit for not going full retard in this regard.

And they might just put to rest the two local fundie bookstores with the same dynamic that people bitch about from other super stores. Score one for the usefully creative destructionism of capitalism.

>>7047700
Anglo countries operate under common law not civil so it is in no way related to roman law and evolved under a different set of conditions. And yes the United States is of the people, by the people.

>>7046552
>corporations are people, my friend

But the philistines told me this was false.

>>7045854
I don't live in the US
For me, Amazon is literally the only way to get certain books, especially if I want to read them in English.

There is a guy who lives right next to my house and sells used books, I still occasionally buy from him too.

>>7048674
>endless DRM nightmare
Name one DRM that has sustained.