/lit/ - Literature

>Buying into the right/left dichotomy.
>Attempting to leave /pol and appear smart on other boards.

>>6984741
Good job at being 16 years old

Friedrich Reck wrote a diary during WW2, he was a fervent monarchist/reactionary and strongly against the Nazis.

It's quite interesting and he was a good writer. The recent NYRB edition's afterword goes through some of Reck's lies and (self-?)deceits (example: he was against everything "Prussian" and identified heavily with Bavaria, but never mentioned that he himself was technically Prussian), highly recommended reading.

>>6984744
so? maybe he was transethnic. pretty judgmental of the nyrb to rob him of his self-determination

>>6984744

Sounds like Ernst Junger in some respects

>>6984741

>being this stupid

>>6984747
>not one SS memoir in the list

Aaaaaaaaaand dropped.

So he was actually evil all along?

>>6984746
Another thing I remembered: He tried pretty heavily to be seen as aristocratic, but his ancestors were farmers, he "made up" his second last name to sound aristocratic, Friedrich Reck-Malleczewen

So he was also "trans-classist" or sth

>>6984772
In some aspects they're very similar, but I'm not sure how "war positive" Reck was - he didn't participate in WW1 due to Diabetes

>>6984747
I can never decide if this list is idiotic or trolling

>Thomas Mann
>Thomas Hobbes
>Joseph Conrad

>>6984817
what is wrong with those people
what the list really needs is conservatives

>>6984817
>Thomas Mann
his floruit was at the height of his staunch and (frankly unusual for a man of letters at the time) support for crazy wilhelm's imperialism emporium
>Thomas Hobbes
there's a reason the "crown jurist of the nazis" wrote a sequel to his magnum opus and saw him as a forerunner
>Joseph Conrad
notoriously elitist and arch-conservative

>>6984870
You can literally look that up in Wikipedia

>Thomas Mann
>During World War I, Mann supported Kaiser Wilhelm II's conservatism and attacked liberalism. Yet in Von Deutscher Republik (1923), as a semi-official spokesman for parliamentary democracy, Mann called upon German intellectuals to support the new Weimar Republic. He also gave a lecture at the Beethovensaal in Berlin on 13 October 1922, which appeared in Die neue Rundschau in November 1922, in which he developed his eccentric defence of the Republic, based on extensive close readings of Novalis and Walt Whitman. Hereafter his political views gradually shifted toward liberal left and democratic principles.

Buddenbrooks, I'd say, is highly unpolitical, it's the fall of one family, there's very little political allegory - Magic Mountain came out after his "shift toward liberal left", that's why Settembrini as the "liberal" is the big voice towards the end

>Thomas Hobbes
The chart said that "Leviathan" is aristocratic/elitist, but IMHO he was writing that you need a political system so that there won't be war of all against all - it doesn't really matter what the exact political system is (though he tended towards monarchism, democracy wasn't really tried recently in Europe at his time), social stratification is more or less artificial, all men are equal.

>Joseph Conrad
Nostromo in the graph is supposed to be "imperialist" and "reactionary", I don't know why it would be either, there's nothing favoring a return to the old status quo (in fact, the country it's set in is being described as suffering from a constant storm of war), and there's nothing about colonization or extension of a country's power

>>6984918
>I'd say,
>IMHO
>I don't know why it would be

>>6984918
I don't even, conservatism and democracy aren't exclusive, he didn't shift to "democratic principles". It isn't like the "liberal left" of 1922 would be considered the "liberal left" of today either.

>>6984788
reported for shitposting

>>6984741

The left/right dichotomy is a recent political innovation, but only in its epistemology. The tug-of-war between liberals and conservatives, authoritarians and libertarians, is as old as the idea of government and politics itself. In another few centuries we'll probably have different symbology besides red/blue, donkey/elephant, and left/right, but the fundamental arguments that split legislative bodies will remain.

And yes I am aware that politics exist outside the traditional American bipartisan layout, but most of these "third positions" fall somewhere within this "dichotomy" as well.

James Kalb - The Tyranny of Liberalism and Against Inclusiveness

>>6984747
>Poetry
>No W.B Yeats

>>6984747
confessions of a mask is fascist? how so? that book is about a gay boy growing up in traditionalist japan

>>6985165
Where does Stasserism and National Bolshevism lie?

>>6985706
Terrible selection of Mishima book for the chart tbh. Sea of Fertility, Runaway Horses, Sun & Steel and his notes on Hagakure 'Way of the Samurai' are all better picks

>"Nazism was racist, so you wanted to be `anti-racist'. Nazism was nationalist? Naturally you became internationalist. It was militaristic, fascistic, and imperialistic and so you became anti-military, anti-fascist and anti-imperialist. If Nazism promoted a belief in the traditional family, you had to damn that as well. ... Your efforts to reject the extremist ideology of National Socialism led you to create your own extremist ideology. We are the first generation since 1933 to have truly overcome National Socialism. We neither define ourselves in terms of it, nor in terms of opposing it."

>>6985737
This is actually good stuff.

>>6984747
This list needs to be greatly edited because its clear that whoever made did so by taking suggestions posted by anons without much double-checking (Kurt Vonnegut should be nowhere near a list of Right-wing writings). Secondly, the radical:moderate ratio is way too imbalanced. How does a nutter like Savtiri Devi get on a list before Russell Kirk or even de Maistre?

>>6985769
Arktos media has a lot of good European New Right books

>>6985799
I'm aware of that.

>>6985708
Teenage edgyism.

Allan Bloom - The Closing of the American Mind

>>6985798
it was composed by Evola Kid, whom I can guarantee has not read a single book on that graph

>>6985708
left wing

seriously. herd nationalism has always been a left wing political force.

You can look at modern british gaelic nationalists such as the SNP or the Sinn Fein, who have even co-opted identity politics in their movements.

>>6984747
>The Chosen
Ahahahahahaha. Really is funny how that's on a list that claims to have Racist/Antisemitic as a category.

>>6984817
Conrad a racist. Ooga Booga

>>6985769
It makes some good points, but it's also very particularly geared towards a specific audience. Was a bit odd to read it as an American.

>>6984747
This list displays how idiotic rightism in general is.

>>6986480
It's either great satire or compiled by someone who isn't right wing, themselves.

>>6985737
>preaching to the choir with an invisible 'you'
>completely ahistorical commentary against contemporary society that not only doesn't describe contemporary society but is based in feeling yet meant to overcome some others' feeling
>intentionally lying about one's ideological position, allegiance, and beliefs
Absolutely garbage tbqh. Why are White supremacists so dishonest?

>>6986486
EbolaKid, confirmed Right winger, made it.

>>6986522
It's about culture, not race.

>>6986562
Right, and that the 'culture' being talked about is exactly synonymous to 'White-European racial-nationalism' is simply a detail. Again, dishonest. Amusing that the group that accuses everyone of ressentiment is exactly the group that embodies it most. But we're also talking about the number 1 consumers of the cuckold porn they like to decry as well.

>>6986528
Top fucking satire, then.

>>6985711
This.

>>6985737
Does anyone have a link? I can't find it

>>6986562
kek

>>6986456
What's non herd nationalism like?

>>6986645
Nationalism doesn't mean that your nation or race is superior to others for others, but only for yourself. I doubt any nationalist opposes a different country and race being nationalistic to their own.

You're not really making any valid points though, just arguing semantic like a dishonest idiot.

>>6984716
>recommend to lefties

http://orgyofthewill.net

^Piero Scaruffi. He fuckin owns lefties .

>>6986816
>Nationalism doesn't mean that your nation or race is superior to others for others, but only for yourself.

Your argument through definition of nationalism (we understand what it is) doesn't address any points but it does, again, highlight the ressentiment by pointing to everyone else to justify your thoughts and feelings. "Some other race out there might think they are superior, so we [by which I mean 'I'] can to!"

But, again, that wasn't even the point. Your hand-waving to the contrary, my point stands that Rightists are dishonest to make these rhetoric pieces about "culture", "White rights", etc., when they very obviously are bait-and-switching for racial nationalism, White supremacy, and all the highlights of National Socialism and similar Racist ideologies. You're dishonest because you know that your ideas are rightfully disdained and the only way to make them approachable is to dress them up in the language of oppression that you claim to be against. You're a self-victimizing shill with no vitality, no will, and certainly no courage. Secretly, even you don't believe this shit, or you'd just come out and say it honestly, on 3chins of all places.

>>6986961
You're talking like they pretend that Europe is one nation.

>>6986961
>If you don't want mass immigration in your country you're a white supremacist

I'm not white or european and I agree with the movements ideals.

>>6984716
im trying to read Leon Bloy but i know fuckall about French and cant find a Free Translation

>>6986989
I think immigration is bad for the country that they emigrate from. Basically the able just jumping ship and saying fuck you to their countrymen, rather than making an attempt to fix/improve it.

>>6986978
I'm not, but since the word 'nation' has conflated meanings (in their own lexicon) it could be read that way.

>>6987001
Your point is stupid, the whole movement opposes the ideas of mass immigration, and loss of values and culture. These things stand on their own as valid points.

Calling people racist/sexist is literally all the left can do nowadays.

>>6986989
>I'm not white or european
>I agree with the movements ideals.
I literally do not care, and it has nothing to do with the argument, which was only incidentally related to immigration (in that it is an issue that is important to Identity Politic).

>>6986961

Can you back up your accusations with an actual argument? So far you have only made statements, you have not demonstrated why we should agree with any of them. Nothing you have said so far logically follows from anything.

>>6987018
wtf are you trying to say? you speak so much and say so little.

>>6984716

Carl Schmitt in "Political Theological" demolishes leftism and liberalism in a pretty subtle way. Highly recommended.

Molbug recommended :^)

>>6987013
>These things stand on their own
The point is they aren't, in fact, standing on their own. Your "loss of culture" is the "loss of a White-European race-nation". You don't want niggers or mudslimes in your country because they aren't White or aren't White enough (in the event of converts). It's all code-words applied to your enemy's playbook.

>>6987022
>>6987023
That you're illiterate and dishonest is why you have the opinions and attitudes you have. We all know who you are, just say it.

>>6987042
If I'm French I wouldn't want a mass immigration of Germans or Britons in my country either.

If I'm Japanese I wouldn't want a mass immigration of Europeans or Africans or anyone else for that matter in my country either.

>>6987042

>I'm not white or european
>"I literally do not care, and it has nothing to do with the argument"

>You don't want niggers or mudslimes in your country because they aren't White or aren't White enough
>Why are White supremacists so dishonest?

Leftists, my friends.

>>6987050
Care to post more examples pls

>>6987050
I'll help you. Start from the beginning:
>>6985737
>>6986522
Now you're on topic again.

>>6987061
You see that that is a response, right? Why can't you people follow even a simply thread?

>>6987042
>It's all code-words
>I'm so smart I know what you mean even if you don't
>Let me tell you more about what your personality even though I've never met you and tbh don't really know anything about you
Why are leftists obsessed with language and armchair psychology? Is it because they know that it's easier to criticize somebody's terminology and character than actually respond to his or her argument? I imagine the fact that they don't need empirical evidence to do this is also a plus

>>6987063
If I'm you, then I wouldn't care because country borders are just imaginary and btw we're all from Africa anyway :)

Also there's no difference between cultures or races (btw races don't exist, they're 'ethnicities' although what I mean by that is literally the same thing because I argue semantics for a living), one culture one race (under one government)

Also marriage is an outdated institution that is inherently oppressive, btw check out my rainbow facebook profile celebrating gay marriage.

>>6987068
If I'm French I wouldn't want a mass immigration of Germans or Britons in my country either.

If I'm Japanese I wouldn't want a mass immigration of Europeans or Africans or anyone else for that matter in my country either.

>>6987072
Notice how no matter how well read or articulated they get, they still use the same exact arguments (non arguments, just name calling).

This faggot says so much but it ends up being equivalent to a hissy fit yelling at someone that they're racist.

>>6987042

Actually, I'm an anti-nationalist. I think your posturing and baseless accusations are pretty pathetic. Especially when you can't even back them up with an argument. Literally all you have said is. " You say x but you really mean y, because I said so". There is no possible way you can know what the real views of someone you talking to over the internet are just from a few posts that don't logically entail anything you are claiming. Show how claiming that you care about traditional european culture logically entails a secret white supremacy or else you have nothing.

Shit I care about the loss of European culture, but I personally blame Protestantism for that. I think that European countries were wastelands far before we decided to support mass immigration. Such a view is not unheard of on the right. You should educate yourself more on the subject and spend less time on polemical posturing.

>>6987068
You said you don't care and that it has nothing to do with the argument that I'm not white and yet I support those ideals applied to my own non white country.

Then you keep calling them white supremacists and saying it's all about how they're white supremacists.

Itt pol getting btfo once again

>>6987097
Christianity in general is at fault tbh, it's a pro globalization religion that didn't even originate in europe.

>>6987106
sorry wrong thread

>>6987072
>>6987073
>>6987080
>>6987092
>>6987103
More ressentiment, more dishonesty, more illiteracy.
Let me hold your hand, children, try not to get lost yet again:
>Someone posts dumb quote from dumb book about Identitarians,
>Identitarians are a European White nationalist movement
>Call out dumb quote for not just coming out and saying that they want White Nationalist government and society, which is in fact an extremist position that is in fact related to National Socialism and similar ideologies
>Equally dumb counter statement was "b-but it's n-not about race it's c-culture"
Maybe (definitely) you're idiots but I understand what "Identity" means, friendo. Keep up with the arm-chair pscyhology though.
>lefty
>lel no arguments la la la I didn heer nuffin

>>6987135
holy shit someone put a diaper on the babby he's pooping all over himself

>>6987121
nah it's the right thread.

>>6987135
This is what dogma does to someone's brain, pretty terrifying to witness.

>>6987149
Never forget that that was the best you could do. Enjoy your shit ideology. 8)

>>6987149
>>6987159
>no arguments
>confirming oneself for BTFO
>/pol/
All is right in the world

>>6987160
You've refused to engage with your opponents, consistently talked past them, and keep restating a point that has been, quite literally, picked to death. What else do you expect them to do, other than call you names when you continue on with your bullshit? It's the only recourse that has successfully gotten you to actually state something new.

>>6987135
Your moronic assertions (simple ad hominem really) were addressed, you choose to ignore it and go back to your initial point which was countered with no response by you aside from further calling them racist.

Are you a bot?

>>6987160
>>6987150
>>6987135
someone help the babby can't stop shitting himself

>>6987171
>keep restating a point that has been, quite literally, picked to death
Actually you never even addressed it. Which, fittingly, proves the point. Maybe you should stop shitting yourself.

>>6987192
I haven't posted in this thread, I just read through it in the past few minutes. Do you actually think you're only talking to one person? Or do you just not see any posts in this thread that explicitly address your argument?

>>6987198
>I haven't posted in this thread
Doesn't matter, you're taking the side and you never addressed the point, despite making the statement that it's been dealt with.
>Do you actually think you're only talking to one person?
Do you?

>>6987198
He quoted a bunch of them. Dogma rotted the last of his brain cells.

>>6985737
le wrong generation meme
ignorant tards idealizing the past because of the increasing lack of living memory

>>6986802
No such thing. The very concept of nation is a modern outcome of the enlightenment.

>>6987222
Then what is right wing?

>>6987218
samefag get out already

>>6987225
A ideology of feelings contradicting facts.

>>6987206
I'm neither an identitarian nor a frothy mouthed polemicist, such as yourself. I generally don't associate with ideological platforms because I find them too limiting and not reflective of my political beliefs. So no, I am not taking a side. Unless you're an idiot that adheres to the "anyone not with me is against me" school of thought
Even if I were to throw my hat in with the people defending the identitarian position/criticising your own (which I'm not), I wouldn't have to personally address your point. Multiple posts have done so, you've just purposefully ignored their arguments or twisted them to mean what you need them to mean so you can spout rhetoric at them.
>Do you?
I have yet to see evidence that there is more than one person posting for this side.

>>6987230
At least type correctly you embarrassing baby.

>>6987230
How droll. The right says the same about the left. I would love to see people actually try and understand their opponent's position, rather than engaging in a ceaseless form of attack.

>>6987240
I would like to view the left as a rational point ov view, but what can one do when statistics and facts are consistently proving left policies wrong?

>>6987240

this tbh

I think its safe to assume the real cause of strife within America (maybe the rest of the world too, but I am not as informed of other nation's current events) is not just one side's policies and actions, but the unwillingness to cooperate between each other.

>>6987252

>>6987271
pg. 25, /r9k/: the Handbook

>>6987271
www.hsdcfs.utah.gov/safe/documents/SAFEPerpReltoVictim_1.doc

>>6987252
>conflating batshit feminism with "the left"
>thinking "the left" and "the right" differ in anything but the most superficial, pointless matters

>>6987292
this tbh

>>6987290
>opening a file via 4chan
Is it 2001 in here?

>>6987292
Welfare walls are a left wing concept in the united states

Favoring of females in family court is a left wing concept

Mass immigration is a left wing concept

I don't care about your obscure version of leftist politics, this is what's happening and it's happening because of the left wing side of government.

>>6987299
German Empire created the modern welfare state.

Honestly, as a far far leftist, my beliefs weren't challenged by reading right wing authors but they became stronger

Before I read Carlyle and Schmidt I was a Social Democrat somewhere between Kautsky and Bordiga, since then I've turned into Maoist. I could tell the people my principled stance concerning the liberation of PoC and trans*, but judging from the subject of this thread I bet it will flourish and become even more juicy in their minds, being addled by obscurantism as they are.

It is everything they regard with dread, trepidation, and despair, which I must become.

>>6987299
>still doesn't understand what Left and Right mean

>>6986961
Nationhood has nothing to do with superioty at any level. It's about a community tied to language, religion, ethnicity, heritage, values and territory. I'm an Irish Nationalist and also a supporter of Pan-European Nationalism. Doesns't mean I think it's better than any other nation, I have British Unionist friends (I live in Belfast) and I respect their identities as much as anyone elses.

>>6986978
Thats what the European project is about, Nation building

>>6987312

>>6987225

Hang on.

>>6987230
>>6987258
>>6987292

You people are fucking retarded. Let me explain to you the essential distinction between the left and the right: the left believes in universal equality (whether it exists only in the imagination, or they believe that it does not but should be implemented), while the right instead believes in hierarchical and aristocratic/meritocratic structures. All other left-right distrinctions descend therefrom.

>>6984716
nah

>>6987314
>he thinks europe is homogenous enough to be united as one
AHAHAHAHA. Fucks like you have the least respect for european culture, history and identity.

>>6987314
He was talking specifically about White/Social Nationalism.

>>6987299
can't speak for other places, but in the us:

"the left" and "the right" act as a convenient distraction for people, giving them something to "belong to" and something to "oppose" while the oligarchy does whatever it the hell it feels like with the country. the radical groups, i.e. batshit feminists and batshit christians, will push for some stupid biased policy here or there that might get enacted to shut them up, but everybody else doesn't give a fuck.

that hillary clinton is considered a "left" presidential candidate is, in itself, proof enough to sustain this claim.

nowhere to go from here but down.

>>6987373
>because of God
>he believes in a middle-eastern religion

>>6987344
We share more history and sentiment with our European neighbours than we do with New worlders, Asia or Africa. Through our shared history, our accomplishments and struggles together. There would be no European Union without the intercultural bonds of the enlightenment, the art, the wars etc.

>>6987373
I don't think anyone on the left believes in smaller government, RINO is a term for a reason.

Whatever you say about the rulers agenda, the leftist kids on the streets are the one basing their belief in various programs and things on faith alone by going against any statistics and proven results.

>>6987373

>>6987332
> Let me explain to you the essential distinction between the left and the right: the left believes in universal equality (whether it exists only in the imagination, or they believe that it does not but should be implemented), while the right instead believes in hierarchical and aristocratic/meritocratic structures. All other left-right distrinctions descend therefrom.
Haha you're so incredibly ignorant holy shit

>>6987391
I guess all the smart Irish left the island during the famine. Enjoy getting cucked by Brits and Scandis again, Mickhead O'malley.

>>6987412

I don't suppose that an explanation may be incoming?

>>6987330
What`s your point?

Maoism is different from Marxism, Deng Xiaoping was a Marxist, even. Do the only memes in your folder on Maoism hysterically shriek sloppy statistics in Impact, hence compromising your smugness with sincerity?

Why wouldn't you use them instead?

It's been a long time since The Fabian Society considered Marx in the same light as Ruskin and Carlyle.

>>6987415
You must be American, enjoy your fall of Rome friend

>>6987426
>Deng Xiaoping was a Marxist

Heh so is Obama in that case

>>6987421
Other that it's plain wrong and that you're probably American?

>>6987427
Better than throwing all european culture down the drain.

>>6987434

Your perception is dazzling and clearly you possess an immense intellect. I happen to be from Sweden.

>>6987439
The sooner Europe casts off its toxic transatlantic relationship and servile chains to Neo-Liberal Globalisation and associated American cultural hegemony, the better off European culture will be

>>6987394
>what is anarchism

also, people tend to label me as "leftist librul" etc, and my opinion of the whole thing is that humans should have no place in government at all, that the ultimate goal should be the complete automation of all non-creative jobs (and, once the technology advances further, creative jobs nobody wants to fill as well) and the elimination of both money and government positions, with only a few automated systems left to prevent inter-personal violence. not really sure how i should be classified

>>6987461
European culture is a myth. There's French, German, British, Irish, Italian, etc culture, but there's no single, unitary European culture. If you have your way then you will literally destroy all the things you love.

Conservativism has been irrelevant philosophically for the past 200 years ever since the enlightenment.

To this end I ask does being a right-winger entails, is it blind obedience to norms? The you vs me childish mentality? The fantasy of an organic homogeneous society? What is it?

Perhaps the real answer is the traditionalism has stopped existing since the French revolution, conservatives are not just against thinking itself, refusing to abstract society from it's norms and individualist mythical thinking.

Perhaps the only conservative political theorist is Carl Schmitt, because he at least ellucidated the culmination of the reactionary project as the state of exception and the childlike friend/enemy dichotomy, a mythical Hobbesian dog eat dog world.

Who now even remembers the divine right of kings? Better yet who remembers Reagan and Thacherism as anything other than lobbying and capitalist apologism. What separates the conservatism from Social Democracy is almost negligent nowadays, their labels are little more than excuses for pushing neo-liberal capitalism while defending the privileged class, just promise less taxes and to kick out bad immigrants and the workers will vote in favor of their own destitution.

At least in these conditions the neo-liberal is honest, he doesn't promise anything,everyone and no one can make it, it just depends on the market. He doesn't defend the oppressive transcendentalism of the church, neither does he give a shit about gay marriage. The only promise capitalism fulfills is the complete uprooting of culture and society by capital. Why would you want to become a patriarch and identify with the state/daddy machine , when after all you can become a coked up wall-street broker zombie and have everything in the palm of your hands? Everyone can be a winner.

>>6987457
No one expects the Cuckold captial of the World to add anything meaningful to the discourse

>>6987433
Show me his theoretical contributions.
Or babble something laughable about Alinsky.

>>6987472

We're in luck then, you can provide us with the Capitalization and Retardation that I lack.

>>6984747
>A Short Story of Decay
>Fascist

>>6987426
How does it feel being a living meme?

>>6987469
Identity is not a monolith, it is multilayered. You can remain ignorant of the shared history of our continent all you want, but it will not reverse the political reality of Europe's direction

>>6987488
> it will not reverse the political reality of Europe's direction

Europe is breaking apart m8

Germans don't want to pay for Greeks and Greeks don't want to be ruled from Germany.

Some European identity.

>>6987466
Technocratic marxist

>>6987487
It feels like being a fish in the water.

>>6987478
What exactly about Deng Xiaoping's Neo-Liberal reforms was marxist? It's as meaningless as calling Tony Blair and Bill Clinton socialists

>>6987470
Statistics and science are on the side of traditionalism on most things. Heterosexual monogamous marriage for example,, has more reasons than "god said so".

>>6987488
Europe has fought major, bloody wars to ensure the exact opposite of what you're advocating. The delicate balance of power ensured the sovereignty of the individual states. If you're arguing for a single polity in europe, you're ignorant of your own history. The fact that I, as an American, am correcting you on this is fucking shameful to you.

>>6987499
Deng considered the advancement of production in China (industrialization and liberalization) as something which would give rise to new ideology following the facile paradigm of superstructure and base. Deng actually had more of an academic education in Marxism than Mao.

>>6987533
>>6987499
>>6987478
People are literally maoist?

What do you even believe?

>>6987533
Every serious student of the economy studies Marx, doesn't make you a marxist

>>6987470

So continuing this question:

Did conservativism really die with the French revolution?
The answer is yes and no, the Enlightenment did kill off the old order, only put a new head in the headless corpse of the state. The bourgeois class installed a tyranny of bureaucratic reason.

The mythical family of Oedipus Rex became the little neurotic secret the Viennese bourgeois tells to his analyst. An immense plethora of institutions medical,psychiatric, educational build to distribute power to the neurotic European who forever was enchanted in the act of submission. Submission for sex (Sade), submission of morality to transcendentalism (Kant), submission of education for freedom (Rousseau), and finally submission to history itself (Hegel). All the time submission for power ever since Christianity, only now there is no grace to save us, but the cold bureaucratic state machine that is ever becoming larger in making us submissive and ruthless, and ever weaker in stopping us from killing each other. The power from above as is below were never truer than the mob mentality the enlightenment encouraged, never were so many people killed for utility and efficiency.

Nazsim, Leninism, Stalinism , all are the same in that they too are conservative in trying to rescue the enlightenment, implementing it without remorse.

So where is the ghost of conservatism? It's nothing but the oppressive tyrant state of the Enlightenment, for the enlightenment is able to justify this much oppression with so little ideological effort. And the day when it's death-knell sounds, can the pestilence of Reason Europe spread into the world disappear.

>>6987499
Some people say it was like a more extreme version of Lenin's NEP. The Marxist reasoning behind it is that there needs to be a developed capitalist economy before socialism is really possible. Whether you agree that this is the reason why it actually happened is another matter. All kinds of other interpretations are possible; people variously call China capitalist, state capitalist, or a degenerated or deformed workers' state.

>>6987558
Dumbass.

>>6987433
Dengism may be a capitalist turn but that doesn't mean Deng wasn't a Marxist. Dengist and current CCP policy claims to be following historical materialism, in that socialism must follow the development of a capitalist base. This is obviously counter-Maoist and sort of nihilistic but it's not necessarily anti-Marxist.

>>6987606
Okay I'm convinced

>>6987332

> Universal equality

> inherently antagonistic towards religious or otherwise genuine cultural diversity (calls for a uniform culture of what is deemed "progressive" of the day)

>>6987620
Interestingly there seems to be somewhat of a resurgence in Maoism in China recently. I don't follow China enough to know whether it can have any serious impact though.

>>6987558
Maoists believe a lot of different things.
Maoism itself is mostly a practice of Marxism-Leninism.
Mao's theoretical contribution to Marxism has been summarized briefly in the formula that class struggle continues under socialism.
A significant number of Maoists uphold armed struggle against the state alongside political repression of reactionaries.
Maoists use the party as a means to lend the economic struggle of the working class a political character. Otherwise the political struggle is left to liberals as is the case in Trotskyism.
Proletarian Feminism is an important feature of Maoism.
Maoists usually uphold the contribution of Joseph Stalin, but regard the Soviet Union as a social imperialist power after Khrushevite revisionism.

I would say that Maoists are the essence of the antiliberal left, the rest are almost exclusively Marxist-Leninists such as Stalinists or Hoxhaists.

Maoists have a hatred of liberalism in common with the Right, but equally despise the obscurantist backwards models of gender, family. and race. Dugin does not seem to recognize this, because the Russian left is quite unique.

>>6987501

Statistics and Science don't say anything they eerily silent and cold like dead bodies.

Science has now become completely irrelevant philosophically, the only thing that matters is technological innovation, and innovation and Darwinist evolution stops were morality invades, like the little preacher in the square educating peasants about sinning.

That heteresexuality has not yet vanished, is simply a matter of utility, we are already little celibate machines wired and ready for blast off for new pleasures,new bodies and new mutations. Battaille predicted the annihilation of pro-creative sex little less than a hundred years ago. The only one who up until now cemented heterosexuality as productive was the church, preaching that we are nothing but slaves to animal desires it stumbled upon the discovery Darwin made when observing the animals of Gallapagos, the fittest animal fucks to procreate the fittest descendant. This maxim killed not only sex and eroticism, but essentially ushered the sexual revolution, not as a reaction to it but as a higher evolution of it. Fucking because of depression, fucking for utility, fucking for because of boredom, fucking for the reason of just fucking.

Catholicism with it's advocacy of celibacy and ascetic position that pro-creation=production started the slow death of heteresuxality.

>>6984741
Not the OP but I do buy into right/left political spectrum, care to post books and/or texts so I can enlight myself

>>6987640
They are rumoured to fund the NPA in the Philipines.

>>6987558
it's mostly an ideology of hatred

>>6987588
the problem with lefties like you is twofold

1. you don't understand math and therefore you look elsewhere for your "super tough knowledge" validation. Literature/political philosophy just does not have this so you have to cake on extra obscurantism onto an actually simple and easily understood meaning.
2. You don't understand proof-based mathematics and therefore don't understand logical inconsistencies in your own ideas. You probably think Popper is "le dumb conservative xD" or some other tumblr meme.

So I guess you have one problem, and that is not understanding math.

>>6987646
>Dugin does not seem to recognize this, because the Russian left is quite unique.
Dugin doesn't place himself left of right, his opposition to western liberalism is rooted in RUssian Nationalism and Traditionalism inspired by the likes of Evola and Guenon. He's also considered a very small part of what could be considered the popular radical russian left

>>6987640
Maoism (and Mao) never stopped being popular, most especially among the historical peasantry (the country-side) and the communes that still exist. When you get to the city and you get to the middle-class families, you start to see less and less approval of the past, but not necessarily. This is natural given the development of capital and the fact that many of these people lived during the Tienanmen incident, touted by Westerners as anti-establishment/anti-communist rallies when it was really a youth movement of communists calling for a return to more Socialist society.

>>6987650
Not the same fuy, bu nope, the current trajectory of genetics is more and more in favor of taditionalism the more we discover

>>6987676
>leftists are dum tbh

>>6987650

I have no idea how you drew that conclusion from the premises you've outlined

>>6987676
Popper is a liberal though.

>>6987676
this

>>6987687
Not really

>still no proper genetic basis for intelligence, quite a few SNPs and genes found but studies often contradict each other - the "intelligence gene" in one study doesn't replicate in another
>still no proper genetic basis for species (problems with Wolbachia, giraffes etc.), you can roughly assign people to population groups but it breaks quickly once admixture is present (is an African-American with 60% European ancestry black or white?)
>still no genetic basis for social stratification, current research points towards nurture instead of nature when it comes to success

>>6987696
not really, he's more of a classical liberal (read: conservative). He would have nothing in common with today's radical-on-culture-safe-spaces-please democratic party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper#Political_philosophy

>>6987708
>intelligence gene
>"IF THERE'S NO GENE FOR IT IT DOESN'T REAL xD"
Holy shit. Read a book. That isn't how genetics works
>still no genetic basis for social stratification, current research points towards nurture instead of nature when it comes to success
Wrong again. The best predictors of criminality are intelligence and impulse control, which are both determined mostly by genetic factors.

>>6987709
>I redefine terms when people disagree
>then I post wikipedia links that say nothing about my points in the hope that no-one reads them

>>6987676

What does math have to do with heterosexuality you dumb fuck?

Are you really this stupid that you can't understand the basic insight that heterosexuality was justified for nothing other than the continuation of producing capital?

But Capitalism today doesn't even need heterosexuality to be effective since the nuclear family unit is being displaced on the grounds of utility. Culture and capitalism are mortal enemies, and the only reason why the family still exists is because if it was allowed to be discontinued then there would be a massive demographic collapse, leading to falling profits i the same way profits fall when an industry becomes completely automated.

Just look at Japan, the state is struggling to push the population for more births, because it knows that a demographic collapse would lead to massive unemployment for young people, while keeping an aging population as the only productive members o society.

But this too is irrelevant, making families or producing clones doesn't matter to capitalism, if production one day is found outside the family unit, then heterosexuality will die almost completely.

>>6987718
Popper wouldn't have anything in common with tumblrite progressives. Fact.

Sorry if this fact triggers you.

>>6987712
Do you have any counter-examples or do you just spout memes?

Try reading scientific research instead of the books /pol/ recommends to you

>>6987723
>Are you really this stupid that you can't understand the basic insight that heterosexuality was justified for nothing other than the continuation of producing capital?

That's called a "non-falsifiable claim." Google it.

Also, capital is not the friend of the conservative or the "heterosexual conspiracy." Pic related.

>>6987730
>Try reading scientific research
I love these "I le fucking love science xD" people who believe gender is a social construct and have never passed a calculus class

>>6987695

Kantian categorical imperative is essentially Christianity only now justified not by god , but by reason.

Sade is the evolution of Kant, you must have sex not because of emotional investment, but by being ascetic and hard, working for pleasure like a worker, torturing yourself and others without personal emotions.

This is a basic Catholic insight ever since Augustine, namely, that the body is ruled by lust and desire and that you must master them if you are to satisfy a higher power or calling (Reason for Kant, sexual pleasure for Sade)

>“Sexual pleasure is, I agree, a passion to which all others are subordinate but in which they all unite.”

- Marquis de Sade

>>6987738

As I said in another post, conservativism does not exist today. it's simply a clever disguise for the enlightenment.

Capitalism will eventually make heterosexuality redundant only if production is satisfied by other means.

LGBT acceptance too is part of this process since homosexuality is the process by which mutation and transformation of the individual is projected to greater speeds. Homosexuality is essentially the death drive made manifest in humanity to it's greatest extent in the human body.

But capital cannot survive without the death drive either, just look at WW1 or the Holocaust, they apex of producing death or desire for death .
The organ-less body we have today, the body that is built up like a little machine for production is the model of death itself. When people say that death is pure nothingness they are mistaken, death is already present in the breakdown of the little-machine body.

So in the end the mutants a celibate clones will inherit the world, and Capital will bring about their reign through it's wave of absolute displacement.

>>6987791
Your entire post is begging the question that your freudo-marxist voodoo assumptions are true. Protip: they probably aren't.

Just saying things that sort of sound "smart and good" is not the same as saying things that are true.

Provide evidence or don't play.

>>6987791
>the Holocaust
you mean world war 2

>>6984716
hes a Japanese faggot so all his opinions are not valid

>>6987687

Traditionalism if by you mean the reign of a handful of near undead old cybernetic old men ruling the world from atop their immense spires slaves have built, the I agree.

Or are you naive enough that you think you will escape eugenics and trans-humanism because you are white? I don't think the traditionalism you mean is even on the table anymore. Since the super rich will be evolving into an entire separate race that will have nothing to do with whiteness that the colonials of the 19th century thought was so special. I don't think they are going to let you into their little club just because of history m8, sorry to break it to you.

How old were you guys when you grew out of leftism and embraced traditional conservatism? I was 19

>>6987805

Your little scientism is hilarious.

Do you really think you are doing anything but defending the Enlightenment as I have just described?

The fact that you really think that your cool "science-magic" is in any sense connected with traditional values is the most tragic aspect of it all.

>>6987805
>Just saying things that sort of sound "smart and good" is not the same as saying things that are true.

marxism is literally the art of trying make these two things the same

like do people think the us president talks to his chiefs of staff when he's actually getting shit done with all these big words? marx achieved nothing with his ideas other than to say 'do dis because hark at thee' then people died.

>>6987836
I don't really believe in scientism or the enlightenment per se, as I am a believing Catholic. Truth is truth though. That's one shackle that turd-like rhetoric can't break.

whoah, this post even sounds like a woman wrote it.

But chances are that you're a fedora tipping white knight who's obsessed with a 5/10. Maybe if you let her know your cool pro-choice views on on facebook, she'll finally love you!

>>6987646
>Maoists have a hatred of liberalism in common with the Right, but equally despise the obscurantist backwards models of gender, family. and race.

Mao's intention of destroying traditional models of gender, family, and race was never altruistic to begin with. The sole purpose was just to create a mindless, unquestioning drone that serves the state and puts the state above everything else, including themselves and their own families. Even meritocracy and science were seen as "bad traditions". As a result, individuals were never value as individuals but as tools of the state. Military. political, and social policies weren't made based on rational decision making processes.

>>6987678
>Maoism (and Mao) never stopped being popular, most especially among the historical peasantry (the country-side) and the communes that still exist.

It would be wrong to assume most peasants like Maoism just like it's wrong to assume every single peasant suffered before Mao. Communes weren't good for the most part to begin with. They're run like dictatorships and not every one gets treated fairly because of nepotism. No matter how hard you worked, you never got enough food, unless you're friends and relatives of the people who run these communes.

>>6987819
>traditionalism
>racialism
these things are not the same

>>6987838

The problem is that you guys dot understand that this debate has nothing to do with Marxism.

Capitalism has bypassed you completely and is moving to new frontiers, initiating changes Marx couldn't even dream off in his wildest dreams.

But the cruel fact f the matter is, that conservatism doesn't exist anymore, if in fact it ever existed, which even that i doubt, since absolute monarchy too was an part of the enlightenment project by decimating feudalism and the church.

>>6987859
thanks for sharing your private definition of conservatism that you just made up with the class, anon. Now please have a seat.

None of these debates matter because none of us are members of the ruling hyperwealthy.

>>6987851

Even Catholicism is pro-enlightenment.

Is that your last defense?

Without Catholicism and Christianity the enlightenment wouldn't even exist.

If Plato and Aristotle started the enlightenment it was because they saw the word governed by harmony and form, but they never posited absolute subjective reason dominating nature. This started with Christianity, that the world is governed by the absolute will and reason of God's design made manifest in humanity. The aspiration to come closer to God, ever since the old Testament was understanding what laws god dictated unto the humanity.

And this sort of aspiration came to it's pinnacle with Augustine's hermeneutic process of conversion and Aquina's simple dictum that God=reason.

Without this the Enlightenment would have never reached it's present form, whereby all consuming reason presupposes it's own self affirmation by eliminating contradiction and ambiguity, as this was perfectly made understood to Kant.

>>6987866

see

>>6987470
>>6987588


Conservativism never existed m8, it's just a spook justifying the status quo, in this present political case, the Enlightenment.

>>6987857

They are going to become the same very soon, when neo-liberalism usurps tradition for technological progress, no one will be bale to fight against eugenics since it will be defended by the free market, which we all know that "conservativism" has been a slave off.

>>6987903
Never said I was anti-enlightenment. You seem to have a private definition of conservative. You are confusing "feudalist" with the term, maybe.

>>6987854
Mao never intended to destroy models of gender. He also polemicized against ultra egalitarianism in the Red Army. If you're actually stating that Mao's military weren't based on a rational decision making process than your rationality is useless because not only do they study his work in West Point, but he managed to pull off a political truce with the Nationalists and then defeat them.

If you think fighting things like foot binding and child marriage wasn't just the tiniest bit altruistic then your concept of altruism might be just as worthless as your rationality.

In replying to my comment you said destroying traditional models of gender, family, and race wasn't altruistic, and in replying to the next comment you said that not everyone gets treated fairly because of nepotism. How's rationality working for you?

>>6987677
He holds quite a bit of influence in policy. He also fuccs with Lenin and Stalin pretty hard, but nationalism is a rightist sentiment.

>>6985139

Suck it, Schlomo.

>>6987919

If you are pro-Enlightenmnent , then why are you a conservative?

What are you rebelling against? The present state of things is the pinnacle of the enlightenment process jacked up to a nightmarish degree, only now not for the service of God or knowledge but for bureaucratic efficiency, working for providence for a god that isn't even there to reward you as Weber realized in the Protestant Ethic.

If not that, then what are you defending?

Globalization? Individualism? Liberal democracy from those pesky Muslims? Capitalism in the form of property rights and the right for corporations to be supra-national and above politics? The organised mafia of the church?

All these things brought about on the name of utility, efficiency and rationality, which could have only existed by the slow disappearance of truth and the prevailing of the mob.

>>6987660
Every ideology of hatred must be an ideology of love.

>>6987926
not that guy

how do you know he didnt just ban those things because they were from the old regime?

>>6987712
>Holy shit. Read a book. That isn't how genetics works
But he's right. Despite numerous SNP associations with intelligence variation there hasn't been a single gene found to be linked with intelligence, leading scientists to believe that current intelligence variation is mostly due to a complex epistatic system.

>>6987745
PhD in bioinformatics, nigger. Try me.

>>6987979
Have you considered that not everything isn't binary?
except for gender :^)

>>6988021
thats because the brain hasnt been researched and they have blocked research on race

>>6988021
whoah, someone lied on the internet?

The fact is that any research on intelligence and race will get you shitcanned. That's just the way it is. It happened to James Watson, the man who fucking discovered DNA. If there's that kind of pressure to get rid of a legend like him, what do you think the average researcher faces?

>>6988022

In this case it's very binary.

It's ideology versus non-deology.

Defending something because "that's the way it is" (appealing to a supra-sensible truth) versus the actuality of objects,movements and sensible ideas.

You can ever hope hope to make conservativism intelligible the you might as well throw your self at the feet of the enlightenment project and worship Habermas as your living god, since that is what you are paradoxically defending, despite the obvious necessary contradictions involved.

>>6988007
Mao did not ban marriage itself, but only raised the age of marriage. Even though marriage itself is a product of the old regime.

Mao would have seen banning marriage outright as Left Deviationism, where reality does not meet theory, and so reality is blamed.

Mao, like Stalin, was also somewhat soft on religion. Maoists today are relearning this.

>>6988047
>The fact is that any research on intelligence and race will get you shitcanned. That's just the way it is.
Weird, people I know in my lab don't feel much pressure. I mean if there was this giant humbug about race and intelligence you'd think someone somewhere at some reputed university would uncover it at the end given all we know about genetics. I mean you can only censor this many geneticists at a time in this many places at once. Even fucking Galileo couldn't be silenced.
>m-muh Watson
James Watson is a fucking molecular biologist, not a pop studies specialist. Fucking laymen thinking all biology is the same and all specialists know everything a la Hollywood.

>>6987979
>the prevailing of the mob.
I think you are wrong to dismiss the mob outright.

On the subject of Maoism, this is, I think, the critical difference. Maoism regards the masses as the motive force of history.

>>6988084
you're just saying this because you're antiracist

>>6988099

Of course the mob can change history, they re much more powerful than the few, even Nietzsche realized this, slave morality could not have been brought about in any other way.

As for Mao, he was a lecherous Chinese peasant that never even read Marx. A good military commander though.

>>6988051
>In this case it's very binary.

>It's ideology versus non-deology.
You literally just made this up and then had a non-sequitir. I never mentioned defending anything because "that's the way it is."

You're probably simultaneously smug and mediocre because you only attack strawmen.

>>6988132

Then what is conservativism other than the Enlightenment project?

Please explain it to me.

>>6988147
I'm not going to sit here an explain an extremely broad concept to
I will recommend you a book, though
http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/history/british-history-after-1450/jacobite-conservative

>>6987646
>but equally despise the obscurantist backwards models of gender, family. and race


Why are leftists so objectively wrong and insane?

>>6988055
>Mao, like Stalin

Wat

>>6988125
Nietzsche's work is there to help people integrate socially. In due time he work will be treated with as much disgust as any chewed up teething ring left over from Victorian times.

An illiterate peasant can understand Marx better than any revisionist professor.

>>6987332
no

as a leftist i find reading the european new right to be really interesting. i literally disagree with them on everything but at least it's better than reading /pol/

>>6984741
>I'm so edgy and smart, and all of you are so inferior
mcfuckingkillyourself.jpg

>>6988241
If you study the history and anthropology, you'll see how temporary those models are.

It's truly liberating.

>>6987708
>current research points towards nurture instead of nature when it comes to success

wrong faggot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgDGqi1MbOc&index=1&list=FLn0V1O2cem0gltiBwYfjBAw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

>>6987974
U mad /pol/?

>>6988107
Being against racism is bad? Hello /pol/!
InB4:
>muh white genocide
>muh white racial superiority
>you call me a kike/sjw
>anti racist is a code word for anti white

>>6987819
You're saying Helios will come in our lifetimes?

>>6987834
I was 18

>>6988399
Being against racism is bad, yes. White people should be racist against blacks, arabs, and latin americans and avoid letting them enter their countries, because they are an obstacle to a functioning society due to their criminal and violent tendencies.

>>6988365
>>6988365
>drawing concrete conclusions from your interpretation of history, which already has trillions of variables which can't be isolated
Lol
I am imagining being as mediocre as you and it's depressing

>liberated not by any phony god's blessing, but by my own intelligence

>>6987854
You actually have not one idea what you're talking about.

>>6988274
Stalin and Mao were advocates of atheism and scientific secularism but neither were what you might call strong antitheists. They did enforce secularism and crippled the social and political power of religious authorities in their nations, but allowed them to continue. Really this only affected the ethnic majority populations, as both the USSR and Revolutionary China allowed their countries' historically oppressed minorities the right to self-determination.
>ass-pained religionists implying any of this is wrong

>>6987851
>>6987903
I really can't tell what the enlightenment guy is arguing for/against

>>6988371
>youtube vid
>wiki article about a measurement designed to detect retards
>still believing in the nature vs nurture dichotomy
Where do I start?

>>6988029
>thats because the brain hasnt been researched
what
>they have blocked research on race
what

>>6988468
1. yes
2. yes

>>6988464
He'll call you a dumb brainwashed lefty for not agreeing with his primary sources and he'll call you a baby or something if you keep at it.

>>6988456

Stalin never allowed persecution of religious people no no

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union#Anti-religious_campaign_1917.E2.80.931921

During the Cultural Revolution there wasn't widespread vandalism of holy sites and banning of religious ways of life

> Red Guards also laid siege to the Temple of Confucius in Qufu, Shandong province.[38] During this episode of vandalism, Red Guards from Beijing Normal University desecrated and badly damaged the burial place of Confucius himself and numerous other historically significant tombs and artifacts.[39] Libraries full of historical and foreign texts were destroyed; books were burned. Temples, churches, mosques, monasteries, and cemeteries were closed down and sometimes converted to other uses, looted, and destroyed.[40] Marxist propaganda depicted Buddhism as superstition, and religion was looked upon as a means of hostile foreign infiltration, as well as an instrument of the 'ruling class'.[41] Clergy were arrested and sent to camps; many Tibetan Buddhists were forced to participate in the destruction of their monasteries at gunpoint.[41]

>>6988536
Do you have a reading problem?

>people still cling to the intelligence isn't genetic meme
xD
anyone who makes this statement has political motivations, not scientific ones

>>6988585
Strawman much? No one denies intelligence is heritable, what does that have to do with there not being a single gene linked with intelligence?

>>6988536
>Soviets and Chinese confiscated land from oppressive clergies and empowered people to overthrow objectively wrong superstitions that were used to keep them in line for millennia
>muh wiki citations

>>6988590
>No one denies intelligence is heritable
plenty of people do though

>>6988592
>objectively wrong superstitions that were used to keep them in line for millennia
wait are we talking about religion or Marxism

>>6988592
You're one sad fedoralord

You'll get laid by a 4/10 one day, just wait

>>6988593
people also don't believe in evolution

>>6988576

Sure this all started when I read Stalin and Mao were "soft on religion" part which was nonsensical.

I mean compared in what world is that considered "soft" unless they are soft only because they couldn't completely eradicate these ideas, which even the holocaust didn't completely eradicate Judaism in total from Germany.

>>6988615
Nice shit-posting

>>6988618
Sorry your wiki scholarship has failed you.

>>6984716
>Go to /lit/ for quality banter with some cheeky lads

>See a bunch of hat memes

>>6987676
Nothing he said was explicitly leftist.

>>6988635

>>6988630
The examples you posted are definitely soft. There was no effort to eradicate religion through force, even though the majority population wanted it to happen. It's not even close to the physical genocide of Jews- why are you being so intellectually dishonest?

>>6988644

>>6988647
it's soft in comparison to the Holocaust
which is to say it isn't fucking soft

>>6987859
>absolute monarchy
would that not have existed under the romans in the pre-feudal era? just because one is a monarch doesn't make them a product of the enlightenment

>>6988456
>You actually have not one idea what you're talking about.

You obviously don't care about history and just imagine everything in your head.

>>6988654

Yes thank you for explaining it to this clown so I don't have too

>>6988647

see

>>6988654

>>6988671
>saying that right after saying Mao attempted or even intended to destroy gender and marriage

Take a walk

>>6988654
>confiscating temples and destroying some well copied texts is even comparable to genocide
>executing priests that actually physically fought against the soviets for the sake of power is comparable to genocide

Off the charts insane

>>6988709
yes that's literally my point dipshit
if the Holocaust is your starting point then Mao/Stalin look soft
in comparison to almost anything else they don't

>>6988450
You forget this is in regards to historical models. Historical precedence of alternative models indicates fluidity. These models have always been a reflection of a reality towards (the concrete), not as reality.

>>6988717
You're the one that mentioned the holocaust you dumb fuck. Then again you can't even read the wiki you posted.

>Joseph Stalin revived the Russian Orthodox Church to intensify patriotic support for the war effort and presented Russia as a defender of Christian civilization, because he saw the church had an ability to arouse the people in a way that the party could not and because he wanted western help.[5] On September 4, 1943, Metropolitans Sergius (Stragorodsky), Alexius (Simansky) and Nicholas (Yarushevich) were officially received by Soviet leader Joseph Stalin who proposed to create the Moscow Patriarchate. They received permission to convene a council on September 8, 1943, that elected Sergius Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia.[79] The church had a public presence once again and passed measures reaffirming their hierarchical structure that flatly contradicted the 1929 legislation and even Lenin's 1918 decree.

You weren't a Chinese or Russian peasant robbed and fucked over for generations by fat-assed priests and their hollow, useless rituals sitting pretty with the establishment despite their lip-service to the souls of the people.

>>6988736
I didn't post the wiki
Stalin eventually loosening up doesn't invalidate the past persecution or Mao's actions

>>6988756
If you're not the one that posted it don't bother jumping into the conversation when you didn't even bother to start at the beginning and figure out what you're arguing about. Explicitly, Stalin and Mao were mentioned as being somewhat soft on religion. Which is a fact: they persecuted religion and they were somewhat soft in their persecution. Not nearly as devastating as you make it out to be, and certainly not without justification.

Has anyone read this?

>>6988347
Why do you disagree? Other than the emotional idea of equality being appealing

I used to be a communist and I just can''t see that view as serious.

>>6988736

Rate /pol/'s reading recommendations

>>6987926
>In replying to my comment you said destroying traditional models of gender, family, and race wasn't altruistic, and in replying to the next comment you said that not everyone gets treated fairly because of nepotism. How's rationality working for you?

You didn't read my post correctly. I was talking about Mao's intentions, not specifically about the actions themselves. If one really has good intentions one would be mindful of the negative consequences of one's actions, accept accountability for mistakes, and encourage a democratic process. None of them was the case during Mao's rule. Altruism stops where authoritarianism begins. Furthermore, you're implying that the traditional models were all bad. To a certain extent, some traditions were very bad, but that doesn't justify overthrowing all traditional aspects of a society, such as religion, art, morals, and etiquette. You already see the consequences of this in modern China: corruption, rising divorce rate, disregard for all life and the environment, no sense of decency like shitting in trains, etc.

In my next comment, I was speaking negatively of nepotism in communes, which were products of Maoism. Nepotism is inherent in all organizations. It's not specifically a traditional value. Even Mao himself practiced it.

>If you think fighting things like foot binding and child marriage wasn't just the tiniest bit altruistic then your concept of altruism might be just as worthless as your rationality.

Foot binding was already banned 1912 during the Republican period of China. Communists deserve no credit for it.

>>6988055
>Mao, like Stalin, was also somewhat soft on religion.

There was a crackdown on all religion and religious practices during the Cultural Revolution. He wasn't even remotely soft on religion.

>>6988688
>destroying traditional models of gender and marriage is the same as destroying gender and marriage

>>6987655
Read The Conquest of Bread. It's about escaping leftists and rightists.

>>6988384

Why not at all. :^)

>>6989030
Mao personally advocated cooperation with religious authorities as a strategy in his writings.

You actually believe Mao was this all powerful quasi-monarchal figure who held sway over every action of the CCP?

Only the CCP could enforce the ban with their influence in peasants. The Nationalists used arranged marriage as a misogynistic solution to curb footbinding.

Nepotism isn't inherent in all organization. Organizations can exist without containing members of the same family. Orphan support networks are nepotistic.

Certain traditions being bad doesn't justify throwing them all out, but them being traditions of a class society does.

>>6988661

The roman empire never had absolutist monarchy, that's why being an emperor was so unhealthy for your way of life, in that you could get assassinated very easily. Being an emperor was an office,since roman power was much more fluid and distributed to the army, governors,senators, etc. this was not the case in the 17th and 18th century where the institution of the King was protected by God himself. The law became more "rational" in that it was expressed by one pillar of power, rather than all the equivocal voices of the feudal noble landlords.

>>6989000


sounds like a bad blaxsploitation film