/lit/ - Literature

try surrounding yourself with people who challenge/stimulate you intellectually?

>>6982201
where do you find those peeps.

>implying that your explanations for why you like certain things isn't after the fact rationalization

It is when you're a teenaged faggot.

>>6982192
>These are people who accept all their beliefs to the point of dogma. They have never rationally questioned their own ideologies and most of the time have no other reason for preferring one thing over another than that it strikes their fancy in the moment. Challenge anyone's beliefs and they create pitiful fabrications that are logically unsound and embarrassingly bad.
That sounds more like humanities students and grads than the masses.

A lot of people are insecure about their intelligence so they become well read so they can justify their superiority complex.

>>6982201
For an american who is browsing a literature board, you sure can't even phrase your sentences properly, i.e., not using the appropriate grammar to structure a suggestion. Good day, sir.

>>6982201
Impossible to find them

>>6982460
What did he do wrong?

If this isn't a troll post, this is the most cringeworthy thing I've read on /lit/ in a long time. You are the definition of the "euphoric" meme.

You have your head so far up your ass you think that whatever you are must be the "inevitable" outcome. Then you say others don't have critical thinking...

You also take it as a matter of success and failure, right and wrong, better and worse, as if there was nothing to life (and to the life of others), except that which you have taken to be your life. And I'm not talking about intellectuality, but the ideal of intellectuality. I can't tell for the former, but the later is what is proeminent in what you're saying.

Whose to say this ideal is provoked not by a desire to produce in the realm of intellectuality, rather than to discern oneself from others, discriminating them as if they were at fault to something which is really only a fault to yourself, a lack created by this ideal of yours that is projected onto them.

If you're not seeing the other for what the other is and if you cannot dissociate your observations from your judgement, how do you allow yourself to say you're a critical thinker? There is work for you to do in that regard, just so you know.

no

the only people I think I look down on are greedy capitalists and /lit/ posters tbh

>>6982192
read Freud and Marx. then read Nietzsche. then read Anti-Oedipus. you'll realize they truly know not what they do

>>6982215
>>6982464
Try looking in areas of life you suck at. You know, like physical activities you're not familiar with. You're bound to meet people who will challenge you then.

Unless you're the fucking master at literally EVERYTHING on the entire planet that human beings participate in, you have no excuse to not find challenging individuals.

>>6982499
>>(Me): For an american who is browsing a literature board, you sure can't even phrase your sentences properly, i.e., not using the appropriate grammar to structure a suggestion
>not using the appropriate grammar to structure a suggestion.
That's what he's doing wrong. He's not using the appropriate grammar to structure a suggestion.

Most people are elitist.

/mu/ is elitist about music
/sci/ is elitist about stem
/g/ is elitist about computers
whole 4chan is elitist about memes (look how many people were triggered by popularization of pepe, wojak and 4chan phrases elsewhere)
normies are elitist, they look down on you if you're unpopular and weird

Who isn't elitist?

>>6983023
This is painfully true.

>yfw you realize that you too simply defend the things you have been told by authority figures in the form of authors
You're not a philosopher. You have not generated an original thought, you have no love of knowledge. You are simply regurgitating the dogma of a despot who took their plight to literature just as all people subscribe to some agenda propagated by the media of their time or another.

That being said, there is a very real possibility that your particular dogma is closer to an objective truth, or at least a subjective appearance of truth, than the one most commonly digested by your peers - assuming they are simply accepting the path laid out by this month's bandwagon drivers. Zeitgeist is almost universally naive despite the relative advance of society and science.

No one likes that book unironically

If by elitism you mean a god complex, then yes.

>>6983023
Certainly true, but I think this board (and, really, the world) would be better off if everyone let go off their elitism.

"The only wisdom we can hope to acquire
Is the wisdom of humility: humility is endless."
- T.S. Eliot, "East Coker"

>>6982526
Why do people say this?

No one can be upset with other people without being insulted?

Are you afraid that someone is going to make fun of us/not take us seriously? Who, and why would it matter? This message isn't for everyone.

>>6983475
"Us"? Who's "us"? You aren't part of some special elite group, sorry.

>>6983480
Us is the board you are posting on. Do you really believe your post had any impetus outside of the desire to distance yourself from what you believe to be a distasteful representation for you? Or do you simply like to insult those you don't understand?

>>6983480
>You aren't part of some special elite group, sorry.
Why do you say this, as in why is this a category you're commenting on?

>>6983487
Says the person insulting and claiming to understand every person alive who they don't see as an "intellectual"? And no, I'm not worried about how I'm represented, I just think it's funny that you believe this "message" is an accurate representation of anything except your own superiority complex.

>>6983497
See >>6983505

This is some interesting trolling, but it's not escalating quickly. Kind of luke warm.

>>6983505
I'm not OP, and I don't see people who are not intellectual as below those who are. However I don't understand the denial of an objective superiority in this regard.
Is it simply resentment?

I honestly feel as if some people can't accept that there are people who are truly superior to others, and that some of them would be superior to most.

I guess your gripe is that you wouldn't be able to accept that a person like that would be so close to you, posting anonymously on 4chan.

>>6983519
>some people are better than others, and they're definitely on 4chan spreading their greatness

>>6983519
Really, I don't know how intelligent anyone on here is, and I don't care if people are more intelligent than others or not. I've felt the way the OP seems to feel, and eventually I realized that, at least for me, all of those concerns are ultimately irrelevant to my well-being. As for that particular post, I made it because it seemed to imply that you were baselessly assuming that other people on here share your sentiments.

>>6983023
>I can't help but look down on 95% of the population. These are people who accept all their beliefs to the point of dogma

time's a bitch pal. everyone is ignorant of the things they don't do or experience daily

the difference between you and joe bloggs is that you tell yourself that other stuff doesn't matter

>>6983580
meant for OP

>Op thinks he's better than everyone because he took philosophy 101

You're the type of person people that study real sciences laugh and joke about op

>>6982192
>critical liberal arts
Yes, if you actually study these subjects with an eye to criticism you will most statements most people make to be frustratingly vague, and their arguments for things poorly constructed, which can easily make one feel revulsion or perhaps pity depending on the people.

>Justify liking a book or film to an adequate extent
Not the way I would've worded that, bro. Liking something doesn't require justification.

>How else am I supposed to treat those who live life on such a base level?
Most of the time it shouldn't matter at all. If you're talking about scenarios where ideas are discussed or otherwise important, then your behaviour should just be consistent with your ethical outlook, not my problem.

>The vast majority of the world's population is little more than apes following their current whims and instincts.

Wait until you get the opportunity to use your critical thinking to take advantage of others or otherwise make yourself a more important ape than the others and come back to me about how superior you feel then.

Also this
>>6982235

>>6983470
No. The boards that let go of elitism go to shit. Just look at /tv/.

>>6983717
It's a big board

there's nothing wrong with elitism if it's based on something substantial
being elitist because you read a book and thinks it makes you smart is ridiculous though

>>6983717
But the thing is that calling something shit is elitist. People on /tv/ obviously prefer memes to discussion, which is their prerogative. If you want a serious film thread, you can start one and it won't be invaded by bane/cuck/waifus. There was a great Malick thread there last week that was devoid of memes, the people who are there just to fuck around generally ignore things they don't understand rather than actively trying to ruin them.

OP everyone who has an above average knowledge in a certain subjects looks down on others who don't hold this knowledge, at least when their relatively new to the subject. Just go talk to any college student. They all think their subject is extremely important and everyone should at least have basic knowledge about it. But you can't learn about everything. Someone who devotes themselves to studying astronomy might not be able to justify why they like a movie they like, but that doesn't make them less of a person.

Yeah, the world would be great if everyone questioned all the dogma and ideology that gets passed down to them, but it's unsustainable because most people don't have the aptitude, inclination, time, energy, or need to do so. Their lives are far removed from it and whether they look critically at something won't really affect them. Their too busy with the external forces around them to direct so much focus inward. This is how it's been for all of history.

Also consider that there are people much smarter and more aware than you who would look at your as a pseudo-intellectual for thinking your above people just because you have a little bit more knowledge and awareness than them. You'd be a laughing stock to a lot of people.

>>6983750
This is true, but even so the vast amount of memes and capeshit threads push off good threads so if a lesser known director isn't getting unnaturally active discussion, the thread will get knocked off. /a/ used to be the model of fast board elitism but even that's been broken. 4chan just has too many users now.

>>6983732
For you

>>6982192
>The vast majority of the world's population is little more than apes following their current whims and instincts.

And you aren't any better OP, stop deluding yourself. Your 'intelligence' isn't that extraordinary. There are about 7 billion people alive today, and how many are better/smarter/more capable than you? How many are this hsitorically? And with have you accomplished? Nothing. You're just good at repeating the accomplishments of others.

I study at a top 3 university, and I deal with pretentious faggots like you on a daily basis. Literally everyone at my campus believes they're a walking god. Guess what, they're not, I'm not and you're not.

>>6983023
/mu/ is elitist about music
/fit/ is elitist about fitness
/v/ is elitist about video games
/lit/ is elitist about everything

>>6984109
/lit/ best board

>>6982192
Knowledge wants to be shared, OP.

>>6982192
Why aren't you interest in elevating others to your level? Don't you have faith in their ability to better themselves?

Seems to me like you were elitist before even reading anything.

>>6984149
it really isn't
it's no smarter than most boards on 4chan (which are all relatively smart, contrary to memes)

>>6982192
Just remember that all the shit you know about philosophy is irrelevant to real life and won't make a difference in anything ever

It doesn't matter to those 95% of people because it really just doesn't matter

Nothing you spent time learning matters

>>6982538
It's like that one quote...it's the mark of an intelligent mind to be able to entertain an opposing viewpoint without accepting it as one's own belief.

So yeah OP, if you can't critically think up a reason why you're no better than everybody else, you have no right to be elitist.

>>6983783
I am tho

>>6984158
>Don't you have faith in their ability to better themselves?
Are you seriously this naive?

>>6982192
You have only collected one perspective, how are you going to fill your perspective pokedex ?

>>6982192
Maybe you are just jealous? The intellectuals that ran the 20th century all claimed to be doing the stupid masses a favor, the real reason was hatred for their unfathomable happiness.

>>6984220
You're either underage or a sociopath. If the former, summer will be over soon and you won't be bored enough to post on /lit/. If the latter, seek treatment.

>>6984238
>rightfully points out flaw of reasoning
>makes a retarded as fuck false dichotomy

Combo X2

>>6984205
me too.

>>6984245
??? 'Twas but a meme. What flaw of reasoning are you referring to?

>>6984329
Should have included a smug anime girl

>>6984205
>>6984253

count me in

>>6984334
I agree, but you didn't answer my question.

>>6984346
Abusive categorization

>>6984348
Never heard that phrase, what exactly does it mean?

>>6984379
It means you categorize something abusively

>>6984382
Somehow I expected more.

>>6984384
Never satisfied, are you ?

>>6982192
Become a shining light to guide the plebs.

>>6984389
On the contrary, I always am.

>>6984401
Good.
This is your life, now.

>>6982192
i thought the popular saying was something like that the more one studies philosophy and shit, the more one realizes that they know very little. how would that lead to elitism?

>>6984432
No, the proper saying is that a little learning is dangerous thing, drink deep or drink not the Pierian Spring. The Pierian Spring was a spring that was said to make anyone who drunk from it a little bit drunken, but whoever drunk much of it would be sober again.

That's the problem with learning/philosophy. If you get only a little bit of it it makes you drunk because you think you are much, much wiser than you are.

It's related to Bacon's statement that a little learning leads you towards atheism, but much learning brings you back around to religion.

This is the problem with modern education in schools and so-called liberal education as well. It gives people scraps of knowledge which gives them the impression that they know everything, so the kids in school getting good grades become "know-it-alls".

>>6984432
Basically this. The more I've read the less I'm inclined to argue with people.

Nobody knows anything. Especially all history, history is just a series of ideological reconstructions of events.

>>6984452
I share this sentiment.
I now never engage anybody in a discussion ever and only talk about feelings.

>>6984452
I'm glad to see someone on here who shares this opinion. This board seems plagued by spooks and hubris, which is sad because I'm sure I share more interests with these people than pretty much anyone else.

I still enjoy arguing at times though, you just have to see it as a game since neither party is "right".

>>6984451
>It's related to Bacon's statement that a little learning leads you towards atheism, but much learning brings you back around to religion.

A little learning makes you a communist, a lot makes you a conservative.

>>6984454
I think we've found the way to true happiness tbh.

>>6984461
Not at all the same thing.

>>6984454
Feelings make us whole, complete people. Feeling in love is the only reason I exist.

>>6984465
Totally is though.

>>6984459
Arguing is difficult because it prerequisites a lot of things : intellectual honesty, a respectful relationship between the two (or more !) parties, and the rightful mindset. It is often best to try to prove your point rather than trying to dismantle your interlocutor's (with tools such as Ockham's razor) and to make use of a very detached, practical and functional speech rather than an involved one.

Sadly, be it on the internet or orally, the platform is rarely ideal for it is often altered by white noise (spectators, ego, personal attacks, emotional involvement) or logistics problem (response timing, hidden hypocrisy, bluff).

All those factors make debate more like arguing, and what should be a constructive discussion turns into a rhetoric duel.

This bores me and I often renounce to defending my point out of sheer laziness.

>>6984469
I'm curious, are you referring to romantic love? Or something more generalized?

>>6984469
This is why we're going through all the other bullshit; it makes it all worth it in the end.

>>6984477
Not this guy, but I share his opinion and would extend it to christian (universal) love.

>>6984469
nice teleology

>>6984477
Romantic love, but I don't want to dismiss Christbro's understanding either.

>>6984163
/fit/ and /mu/ are populared by 19 year olds and definitely not smart.

>>6984499
>>6984483
Not a Christian, but I feel this. I guess I've made a sort of Kierkegaardian leap of faith, but that faith is in humanity more than anything else. Oddly enough, DFW was the main catalyst for this "leap". He's a very interesting figure, despite his pop cultural significance and meme status.

>>6984524
That sounds interesting. How did DFW influence you exactly?

>>6984504
so is /lit/?
dumb point

>>6984488
I have never understood teleology that well. Can you help me understand?

>>6984478
I'm glad you understand. I'm emotionally stunted so it's relieving to me that others feel the same.

The key is to go meta. By that I mean that the key is to realize that questioning ideology is only one the different achievement that people can pursue.

For all we know, you don't know how to build a table. You don't know how to lay bricks. You have literally no fucking clue as to how your house was built. All the people who participated in that may look down on you for it.

You don't know nothing about the economy. The fluctuations of GDP, the dynamics of the exchanges between people, the models of how a State can influence those exchanges.

Bro you don't even know shit about physics, about the scientific description of things that surround us. Do you know how gravity works ? Do you know what the matter is made of? Do you have any clue about quantum physics.

You don't know shit, OP. Your knowledge of how to question ideologies is nothing within the entirety of human achievements.

>>6984524
His stories - Good Old Neon, Good People, and Brief Interviews #6, to be exact - carry a message of compassion for common people, and an affinity for things that at first glance appear "trite" or "cliche" to the modern person who's constantly inundated with insincerity. The fact that someone who was so neurotic (like me) and intelligent (like I wanted to be) could find joy in things that I had long thought to be worthy of derision was fascinating to me. I can't explain it nearly as well as he does in the aforementioned stories, but the fact that pure, human compassion commanded such respect from a neurotic, suicidal sociopath really resonated with me. I suppose it's similar to Schopenhauer's idea of "fellow-sufferers" - in this world where we know nothing, shouldn't our companions be deserving of infinite love and infinite forgiveness? If all we have is doubt, shouldn't we give the benefit of said doubt to those with whom we share it?

>>6984544
>emotionally stunted
I've been getting a bit better, but I know the feeling. Luckily I have one or two people irl with whom I feel able to be almost completely truthful.

>>6984561
I recently got oblivion stories and haven't actually started reading it yet due to being halfway through other things.
Your post has made me want to start reading it though, thanks for giving me an objective for upcoming days

>>6984609
Yeah I haven't read any of his full collections or novels, I'm ADD as fuck and perpetually in the middle of 10 books at once. Glad to have spurred you on though, you won't regret it.

>>6984634
I just lack resolve if I'm being honest, but the idea of a book of short stories that appealed to someone else who's neurotic sounds like something I can get behind.
I'm sure I won't regret it, thanks anon.

>>6983781
>/a/ used to be the model of fast board elitism
/a/ is still pretty elitist. I honestly don't think it has gotten any less elitist for the last 5 or so years. And I appreciate that.

Funny how not one person has actually engaged in my argument and has just used ad hominem and strawman arguements.

>>6982810

Do you have autism?

>>6986459
Are you the OP? What argument have you made exactly?

How old are you?

>>6982460
are those poop cookies?

>>6986459
You don't have an argument, you just have a rant about how you feel superior to most people.

“...never [enter] into dispute or argument with another. I never saw an instance of one of two disputants convincing the other by argument. I have seen many, on their getting warm, becoming rude, & shooting one another. ... When I hear another express an opinion which is not mine, I say to myself, he has a right to his opinion, as I to mine; why should I question it? His error does me no injury, and shall I become a Don Quixote, to bring all men by force of argument to one opinion? ... There are two classes of disputants most frequently to be met with among us. The first is of young students, just entered the threshold of science, with a first view of its outlines, not yet filled up with the details & modifications which a further progress would bring to their knoledge. The other consists of the ill-tempered & rude men in society, who have taken up a passion for politics. ... Consider yourself, when with them, as among the patients of Bedlam, needing medical more than moral counsel. Be a listener only, keep within yourself, and endeavor to establish with yourself the habit of silence, especially on politics. In the fevered state of our country, no good can ever result from any attempt to set one of these fiery zealots to rights, either in fact or principle. They are determined as to the facts they will believe, and the opinions on which they will act. Get by them, therefore, as you would by an angry bull; it is not for a man of sense to dispute the road with such an animal.”

- Thomas Jefferson

>>6982192

Narcissus drowned because he was looking for himself in the world. I hope you someday reach the point of knowing it takes all types.

>>6986592
What a great guy

>>6982192
Kinda agree with >>6982740, because if you so fucking smart and always questioning your "superior" beliefs, haven't you fucking realize that being cult or well read is not necessarily the most important thing in the world?

>>6986716
what is the most important thing in the world?

>>6987482
Dank memes

>>6982192
>not concerning yourself with things more important than people
Toppest kek of toppest keks