/lit/ - Literature

>>6952233
i didn't need a book to tell me god didn't exist because i was smart enough to come to that realization on my own

THAT'S ME IN THE CORNER

>>6952241
I too am enlightened by my own intelligence, my fellow gentleman. Care for to share a box of the finest Franzia with me while watching some patrician anime?

>>6952233
No one book has ever made me change my views. That said, I became critical of religion after reading religious texts and scholarly texts about religion.

>>6952262
i love the whole "4chan pretends to be christian" meme

you christian contrarians are cancerous anti-intellectuals who don't belong here

>>6952241

"Christians are those who read the bible.
Gnostics are those who understand it." - R. Reagan

Luckily, I didn't need a book's enlightenment to show me that Christianity was retarded.

>>6952233
I was fortunate enough to be raised by parents who never discussed their own faiths or beliefs with me, or took me to church, etc. They gave me a children's bible, and a record of dramatic excerpts, just as they gave me books of Greek and Norse myths and tons of other fictions. Since I was never taught to worry about the afterlife, I never have, and I'm a true atheist from birth.

>>6952277

>>6952276
see >>6952269

Going to college and taking a few courses in science was enough

everything christians believe is good and all, but the existence of god is impossibly unlikely
and no I'm not here to argue about it

The arrogance of atheists is almost comical. They lack even the most basic understanding of theology and rail against the most cursory perceptions of religious thought aimed at the lowest common denominator and act like they are involved in are being intellectuals.

Even the most intelligent atheist is trapped in the lowest matrix of thought. All of their beliefs exist as a subsidiary of the beliefs they are against.

>>6952307
I honestly can't tell if posts like this are parody or not. How do function with such a weak mind? It's honestly to the point where your ignorance is insulting

>>6952269
why is it that only validation-seeking tripfags have the most embarrassingly bad opinions?

I was raised in a Jewish household but never believed and it was never a problem for anyone involved.

>>6952311
Lol why would we want to learn Christian Mythology? We may aswell be reading D&D books if we go to that level lmao

>>6952318
Then your family's faith is weak and more than likely a lie.

I was never too into religion to begin with.
I was raised on jewish education and, and while I was always interested in it, it was always from an outsider point of view

>>6952315
sorry buddy i just don't feel like spelling out my beliefs every few days on here really if your opinion mattered in the slightest I would though

>>6952322
I think you just lack an appreciation for Jewish culture. Also it's not like I give a fuck about the strength of my family's faith I'm an athiest lmao

So we'll just continue to collectively assume every atheist is a hat-tilting neckbeard who spends his evenings arguing about evolution on youtube comment sections?

>>6952241
>>6952269
Oh look a tripfag who takes memes seriously and assumes everyone else does as well.

/lit/ has always had a christian demographic, even if you didn't notice it at the beginning of the summer when you first arrived.

>>6952319
You are a person who exists purely of utilitarian value to a consumerist collective. All of the knowledge you seek as prerequisite need to be "valuable" in terms of productivity to the collective, as you live a dehumanized tool like existence.

Of course in your mind knowledge that details the meaning of your existence is baffling, because it defies the purpose of your consumerist collective. You aren't the type of man to seek knowledge to find the truth, to seek understanding for the sake of understanding and not for what it can provide for you.

>>6952315
>>6952311
Nice try, but defending Christianity is a fool's game, no matter how pompously you wear your emperor's clothes. It's absurd stuff, and the "philosophical" arguments used to defend it are laughably stupid transparent wish-fulfillment (Pascal, Anselm, Descartes), or are hilariously misused ("if there's a prime mover force, the Bible is right!" "If I can imagine someone perfect, he must exist!").
A Christian calling an atheist arrogant is so idiotic they should be bitch-slapped for uttering it: you're the one claiming humanity is the centre of the universe, that humans figured out the nature of God thousands of years ago, and that some supreme sentient cosmic creator cares what we do to each other in minute detail, not us. You already disbelieve every faith but one: just give up that last illusion and enjoy this life.

>>6952311
not only that but most of them don't even understand basic epistemology that provides the backbone for their "scientific certainties"

>>6952315
>I honestly can't tell if posts like this are parody or not.
There's nothing shocking about not believing in gods anon, especially when saying science doesn't justify it (it doesn't).

>>6952358
You have an absolutely disgusting false perception of what Christianity is and of what theological thought is.

Honestly, why are you speaking about things that you don't at all understand?

>>6952366
Aww, are you kids confusing atheists with scientists again? Gosh, every time I think you've learned. Well, let's try again.
One more time. Being an agnostic atheist just means I don't see enough proof that any deities exist, and choose not to believe in them. Period.
It doesn't necessarily mean I believe in evolution, Big Bang, or any other theory. It doesn't mean I read Dawkins, worship science or even think the world is round. I can believe in ghosts, UFOs, elves, the Loch Ness Monster, and Atlantis. The only f**king requirement is that I don't believe in any supernatural beings that I consider holy or sacred. I don't have to explain the fossil record or the history of the universe. It doesn't mean I hate religion, or churches, or want to see the end of anyone else's faith. It has nothing to do with whether I give to charities, try to be moral or ethical, or obey the law. It doesn't mean I think life is meaningless, or care what anyone else believes or thinks. I just reject theist explanations as sounding silly to me, and the rest is personal. If I see anything to change my mind, I'll let you know.

>>6952352
Nice projection, I'm actually a Pythagoreanist

>>6952374
"Science" isn't at all an adequate model for defining existence on its own. You're subjecting yourself to an existence of ignorance

One Word for all you atheist fedoras: Aquinas.

>>6952307
>>6952288
>>6952241
>I never read books, I am smarter than any book and therefore I make my own philosophy and my ideas exist in a vacuum.
I honestly can't tell who's trolling who anymore. You guys are making atheists look bad.

>>6952381
Yes, all it means is that you're apathetic and accept your ignorance. That's something to be ashamed of

>>6952325
Secular jews disgust me more than any other demographic.

>>6952399
No it's not you meme

>>6952241
Filtered :^)

>>6952402
Cool, man. Hot opinion.

>>6952402
I'm technically a dirty goy, so all is well.
anyway, I'm actually kind of curious as to why you're so repulsed by them. also, are you american?

>>6952407
It absolutely is. You wallow in your ignorance and act like it's a badge of intelligence

>>6952255
THAT'S ME IN THE SPOT LIGHT

>>6952399
Apathy is reading (or hearing about) ONE old book and deciding it must be right, not a life of intellectual enquiry. You're backwards again.

>>6952418
No I don't; quit projecting kiddo.

>>6952384
>what if everything were like...numbers man LMAO

this thread is proof that christians are stupid

>>6952391
This tbh

>>6952384
Fite me nigga

>>6952391
>>6952391
One word for christposting, Aquinas worshipping faggots:
Abelard.

>>6952426
>not a life of intellectual enquiry.
top kek what rigorous intellectual enquiry have you gotten up to lately besides shitposting on /lit/?

>>6952426
Again, you're demonstrating a fundamental ignorance of theological thought, yet you insist on speaking of these matters that are completely beyond you.

You've never even read the Bible to begin with anon

>>6952414
Fuck off, you see yourself as Jewish

I'm a athiest and I don't believe in god, i don't understand the bible it's gay. Science is the best.

>>6952445
>implying Aquinas ever proved anything

>>6952460
>implying you've read him

>>6952462
>implying that Aquinas and his works aren't important enough to European history to be part of the AP curriculum

>>6952449
Peter Abelard the christian heretic who knocked up helloise before he was castrated?

You obviously haven't read Aquinas or Abelard.

/lit/ is either really dumb, or really good at pretending to be really dumb

>>6952462
Where are you from? In my country (England) we read the Shorter Summa during secondary school (around the time we're 14)

>>6952477
I'm from England and this does not happen lmao

Unless you're a posh cunt

why would I want to lose my religion, I think of religion very fondly, a very human like culture. Nothing wrong with that.

>>6952477
>Shorter Summa
which one is that then? did you get sparknotes you fucking pleb?

>>6952485
Shh, just meme along.

Btw here in Germany we have to write essays in grade 4 about the flaws in Nietzsche's early work.

>>6952485
What part of the country (I'm from the south) ? I went to a state secondary and we read it in R.E then read Ockham and Al-Ghazali the year after.

As an atheist I'm convinced these threads are just started to discredit other atheists.

We have this thread at least 6 times a week. I don't see why you people see the need justify your own opinion or denounce someone else's. In the end, nobody's gonna win, shitposting will overrun /lit/, and everything beautiful will die.

>>6952490
The one Aquinas wrote as a shorter version.

>>6952500
Being an atheist doesn't make your opinion matter any more than it already does. It just shows your pride.

why does /lit/ hate atheism?

>>6952541
Memes; read Hegel.

>>6952541
we don't, christians are just a vocal obnoxious minority and most atheists don't care enough to respond

>>6952541
christian contrarians who think they're special snowflake intellectuals. it's entirely reactionary to new-atheism and its adherents and has nothing to do with their own beliefs or any spiritual connection with a "god"

they are much more moronic than any regular christian could ever be since their religious beliefs are just a reactionary attitude toward a website they don't like (reddit)

visiting this site made me lose hope for a creator

>>6952557
:-)

>>6952548
>>6952552
>>6952556
This all makes sense
cheers, /lit/

>>6952557
animated pepe movie with voice actor when?

>what book made you [agree with position]
>nobody in thread has actually read Dawkins, Hitchens, Aquinas or Augustine
>or if they have, they're to lazy to actually discuss literature on a literature board

>>6952500
Then they're not working. The Christian arguments here sound like Beavis & Butt-Head.
"Uhh.. you guys are just too dumb because you haven't read our secret higher knowledge."
"Yeah, we're smart. If you read Aquinas you'd believe our fairy tales. Not that we read anyone else's myths before deciding their religions were all silly shit. Not like our entire faith isn't just an accident of where we happened to be born. I am Cornholio!"

>>6952575
last time we discussed aquinas butterfly sagebombed the thread.

>>6952575
I heard Dawkins is really dull shit with arguments directed at American southern protestants.

As for OP's question, I lost my religion at around 15 through a process of introspection, books generally weren't involved.

>>6952581
no they're working case in point
>your post
>>6952556
>>6952552

>>6952583
We reached the conclusion that he literally *proved* God.

>>6952592
Atheists like butterfly and devitt are surprisingly hostile towards ideas that don't align with their beliefs. A position they fault the christians for.

>>6952600
They're both me btw; you've all been playing in my delightful little game.

>>6952394
>needing a book to tell you what to believe
retard

>>6952233
My father was a proud atheist, my mother was just not religious and had a distaste for religious people, though she was not properly an atheist. An agnostic of a kind. If she had more thoughts on the subject, she didn't try them in front of my father, or in front of me. And she wouldn't dare be like the Jesus folk, though I think she believed in a God and a heaven of some kind from an unusual comment she let slip once.

My father introduced me to Bertrand Russell, which got me, at the age of 12, into looking up atheism stuff on the internet. I became a very committed atheist. By 16 I was a nihilist, committed to the idea that no objective value can exist, though of course that left me free to evaluate things subjectively.

I think I would have been quite lost if it weren't for Hitchens. He was the most morally serious of the big-name atheists. Something Shelleyan about his atheism. It was a worship of its own kind: of truth, of goodness, of human dignity, etc. And he had a real love for literature. A kid needs to learn an admiration for these kinds of sentiments. My father had a lot of this, too. He was an atheist, devoutly anti-religion, but he hated it for all the best reasons. And he never let me get away with being shitty when I was—I learned a strong respect for principle from him, that some things were wrong and no bullshitting about them ought to be tolerated.

As I became more well-versed in literature I eventually found I'd got Christianity wrong in a lot of ways. And it became clearer that the scattered virtues and beauties I'd so long adored were not proper objects of worship on their own, nor meaningfully connected except in God. By a slow process I gained my religion.

We do a lot of violence to the love of God by mislabeling so much nonsense as "Christianity" and saying that, if a child believes there is a stern man in the sky who will punish or reward them arbitrarily, who had a long-haired son named Jesus, therefore they are Christians. And we ought to remember that being a Christian is not the same as being a good Christian. Certainly this is why so many people "lose" their religion: what did they have that was worth keeping?

In this way I think I was lucky to be raised without religion as an identity or a set of images. When I found God I found him not as a disfigured image but as the face of justice and mercy, beauty and truth. But then, something I must have lost, too. "Whatever may be thought of the genuineness or authority of any part of the book of Daniel, it makes no difference in my belief in Christianity; for Christianity is within a man, even as he is a being gifted with reason; it is associated with your mother's chair, and with the first-remembered tones of her blessed voice." This I cannot say.

>>6952473
Peter Abelard, publisher of Sic et Non. If you don't know what Sic et Non is, then you should probably give up now. Although you did call Abelard a heretic, so you probably know that Sic et Non essentially provided a view contrary to every church opinion on a major philosophical or theological question. (As well as providing the comparatively insane church views on the same topics, of course.)

>>6952615
>not needing a book to tell you what to believe

Alright. What do you believe about the Roman Empire? Without any reliance on books, of course.

>>6952629
>christfag thinking his religious texts are on the same level as histories

>>6952629
>he 'believes' things
Rand go to bed

>>6952615
>proud atheist and non reader
one day I hope I will be smart enough to be a tripfag on 4chan like you

I'm fairly certain that Aquinasfags are basically just euphoric hat tippers who go tired of talking about evolution and so latched onto some other thing they could spend their Firday nights about.

>>6952276
saved ;)

>>6952640
i am proud to be an atheist though since it draws a clear distinction between me and you morons who have been brainwashed and blinded by your own contrarianism and ironic shitposting

>>6952637
>>6952638
dodging of the most obvious and pathetic kind

the point is you can't disparage people for developing their worldview by reading books unless you think stupidity a virtue

>>6952652
Yeah well you're a hat cunt

>>6952652
that distinction is not nearly as clear as you think

>>6952652
I'll ask you again is this a troll account? because you're doing a fantastic job.

when you're on this board the average IQ drops by at least 20 points.

>>6952656
i was just saying that it isn't a requirement to get your beliefs from a book. it is entirely possible to be an atheist without reading anything and to come to the conclusion on your own.

what i will say though is that if you do need a book to tell you (and make you believe) god doesn't exist, you probably are of a lower intelligence.

>>6952656
>he wants *to* develop his 'worldview'

>>6952665
>it is entirely possible to be an atheist without reading anything
It's encouraged even

nice pic weeb faggot.

>>6952233
This board is worse than /b/. Actually, I'm positive /b/ has smarter, more interesting people.

Look here athiests: Imagine the most perfect thing possible (aka god). For it to be perfect it must exist. Therefore God is real.

>>6952675
>For it to be perfect it must exist
No

>>6952673
gee I guess you should go the fuck back you underage shit.

Too bad I'm sure lots of people will miss you.

>>>/x/
>>>/x/
>>>/x/
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>>>/x/
>>>/x/

>>6952652
If you are trolling in order to discredit the atheist side, you are being a mediocre Christian in doing so dishonestly.

If you are trolling but also an atheist, you are doing a disservice to people who share your belief, and may be doing this because defending atheism seriously is difficult and shitposting is easy.

If you're not trolling, you're making a fool of yourself.

If you just don't care about anything beyond having a laugh on 4chan, you're not much of a person.

Whatever your aim is, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

>>6952620
explain how Abelard refuted Aquinas, a man who came after him.

>>6952685
Learn to grammar.

>>6952692
you ought to be ashamed of yourself for believing in god in the year 2015

you have the mental capacity of a 10 year old

>>6952680
Love isn't perfect. Wow. Love doesn't exist.

"I see people going to the pew every Sunday. I pity them, honestly I do. The way I see it: Christians are those who read the Bible, Gnostics are those who understand it"

>>6952675
I hope nobody unironically bases their fate on these trite word games.