/lit/ - Literature

>>6924698
i dont know man i am agnostic.

idk man im a vegetable

Being a well-read believer is the ultimate proof of subhuman intelligence.

>>6924698

Anything other than being atheist or agnostic is ridiculous. It is inexcusable to believe in the Christian god in 2015, or any other religious fables with absolutely no evidence. Go ahead and post images of fedoras, you know I'm right. This edgy, reactionary Christ shit on 4chan is lame and has gotten old.

I don't know I'm a alien

most athiests are exposed to the most pleb of religious interpretations (like fundies) so they think the millenia long history of humanity's search for transcendental meaning can be demolished with a few quips about muh stardust and going one god further heh

start talking about pantheism and more nuanced interpretations of God and shit and they start cosmos-thumping like retards

>>6924740

You are a moron.

Read : Plato, St Augustin, St Thomas d'Aquin, Léon Bloy, Georges Bernanos, Descartes, Pascal, Michel Henry then come back spill the same iliterate bullshit.

Atheism is for ignorants.

idk man i'm bob dole zombie

>>6924740
this tbh
Religious people from my experiance can't deal with life/the universe being indifferent. They have to conjure up whatever they can to not feel alone, and I couldn't deal with the cognitive dissonance personally.

>>6924754
Basically none of these heard of the theory of evolution, or realized that stars were huge balls or gas, or even could articulate the inconsistencies of their own faith. In addition, some could have been ostracized/excommunicated by a vengeful Church even if they had come up with an alternate theology.

You're not helping your case.

>>6924698
Because they don't have to rely on anecdotes to know you are pulling shit out of thin air.

>>6924768
what are you talking about? Aquinas accepted that certain organisms came from other organisms and rejected a proto Lamarkian understanding of hereditiy

>>6924760
Try to understand for some existence itself is more than adequate proof or God or some Higher Power, while for others it's a machine to be studied and understood. Neither is wrong. But don't go thinking because you know how phenomenon x occurs that it says anything metaphysically about the universe.

>oh but anon science isn't trying to make metaphysical claims because they're unfalsifiable

ok then

>>6924740
>>6924760

>>6924776
>This one time this one philosopher said this one thing, therefore he understood all the intricacies of evolution.

Would you stop, already?

>>6924768

1 - you're confirming you don't know shit

2 - not everything is related to the scientific method of apprehending things.

3 - by making science a dogmatic belief you're no better than the people you think you are attacking (you have obiously no theological or historical knowledge at all)

>>6924698

It's all fallout from the Fundamentalist-Modernist split

>>6924803

Blah blah blah

Show me evidence of whatever fairy tale you believe in, and I'll be convinced. Until then forgive my skepticism for not believing in things without any kind of proof at all.

>>6924796
lol who cares if they knew about evolution or not you clown? how does evolution disprove the existence of a transcendent being, other than kinda maybe debunking genesis if you're a tard and read it literally?

get outta here with these babby-tier arguments

>>6924754

Holy shit your list is pure cancer

Plato is full gnostic

St Augustin de Hippo and Thomas de Aquino at least bought back some aristotelian thought

just kill yourself

Muslim here. You're all going to Jahannam permanently, and there's nothing you can do about it unless you accept Allah as the almighty.

>>6924796
>moving goalpoasts
the theory of evolution wasnt that much hot shit, guy

Regular atheist is depressed, insecure and not succesful. Has a cynical way of viewings things which cause him to be unable to achieve anything.

>>6924789
requesting reddit 1 and 2.

>>6924780
It's perfectly understandable.
The issue is
1. they are no more better at deducing metaphysical as anyone else, perhaps even less so and
2. subscribing to distinct doctrines for no reason at all.

>>6924813

>this is what christfag believes in

so you in the end believe in a new-age god just to fugg bitches and make money?

being sucessful is irrelevant for the christian or catholic man

>>6924789
>Ill post something from reddit or a fedora picture that will show them!

>>6924808

Even if you read it literally it disn't "debunking" anything. Again folks on the internet are obsessed by rational thinking and yet they don't even understand it. Modern science and christianity aren't those separate entities fedora atheists claim they are.

>>6924808
The Bible is the LITERAL WORD OF GOD. If Genesis is untrue, it's literally all untrue, and since that's not the case, Genesis actually happened.

>MUH METAPHORS
Bullshit. What are you, a fucking Lutheran? Eat shit.

>>6924813
A lifetime of being in the friendzone can do that to a man

>>6924698
they turn to atheism because it makes them feel special. Most atheists have few talents, so they use atheism as a way to make themselves feel smart.

>>6924819

Just stating the obvious. Catholic are workers, they believe in making something of themselves even though it means a lot of suffering. Atheists are just pessimistic cunts.

>>6924811
You're right. It really fucking sucked. No loving god would ever make anything like you.

>>6924768
>evolution refutes Christianity
nice meme

>>6924751
This frankly.

>>6924833
You can't get into heaven through good works, or through hard work. Pride is also a sin, so I would assume you'll be going directly to hell.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

>>6924844

Never said that you mongoloid. You're retarded.

>>6924834
shit dude

if there was an "argument from edgyness" for God's nonexistance id be fully convinced by now

>>6924810
Hindu here. I'd just like to remind everyone that there is no single god, but instead an entire pantheon. Remember, your suffering with Yama will be significant if you do not worship properly. I hope I'm understood, because I love you all and do not wish for you to suffer.

>>6924823

>>6924848
So you bring up things that have no relevance to the argument at hand? Nice work! Very impressive duplicity!

Still not getting into heaven though, not with that mouth.

>>6924852
Fuck you faggot, the demiurge have brainwashed you.

>>6924833
That is why Italy is a vastly superior country to, say, Sweden... Oh no, wait.

>>6924844
Pusillanimity is also a vice

idk man i'm anthroposophist

>>6924849
What can I say? I didn't breathe life into walking shitheaps like OP and certain you-know-whos in this thread. That's all on God. Does that sound like a merciful God to you?

>>6924823
>literal word of God
Nice try,
A) that book was written by human hands
B) even if the original books were 100% literal and accurate, it has been translated a countless number of times, which has caused some different errors and inconsistencies

>>6924866
>that book was written by human hands

>>6924862
Then we'll be going hand in hand. I hope you've made your peace with your family when it's all over.

>>6924833
>Catholic are workers

Old Testament holds little to no relevance to real catholic. At best it foreshadows the coming of Christ in a subtle, poetic way. That's it. Fatmericas are so used to degenerate protestants they think they are criticizing christianity as a whole by ridiculizing this jew-wannabe heresy.

>>6924823

the point is your argument is literally "we know a lot more about x than we did when the bible was written, CHECKMATE THEISTS" when true religion doesn't give a shit about muh empirical models, it is about understanding our place in reality and the supreme principle that has obviously created it.

you know what my evidence is for there being some force, being, mechanism, whatever, for existence? existence in the first place you monglord

what am i if i just dont know the origin of the universe so i dont believe anything

if the answer is "agnostic", are agnostics considered as bad as atheists

>>692469
>God is dead, but given the way of men, there may still be caves for thousands of years in which his shadow will be shown.

>>6924866
Why should I care about some book written by human hands then? Why not worship 50 Shades of Grey? At least then I'd get to bone some chicks.

>>6924870
Jesus, God on earth, never wrote a thing. All the accounts of Him were written by humans, just like you or me.

>>6924883
because it contains some of the most profound moral wisdom written down, by a people that didn't have smartphones, machiattos, and gated communities to numb them to life

>>6924883
>At least then I'd get to bone some chicks.
>Is an atheist

>>6924864
is this some kind of Poe's law?

>>6924698
So your trolling consists of:
1. Claiming "all atheists feel superior which is weird because I'm superior and they're stupid-heads" (said unironically).
2. A massive and horribly inaccurate generalization of religious people made based on some Catholics you know (U.S. atheists know more about religion and the Bible than Christians do: look it up).
3. Equating atheism with something called "new age cynical bullshit" (which is basically an oxymoron: if you've met any "New Age" people, you know they're usually desperately committed to denying any cynicism, and they're not atheists).

You're funny, and a lovely example of pretentious ignorance. Have fun growing up.

>>6924875
>Existence exists, therefore it must have been created

>Countless models of spontaneous system development from aggregated elements

Checkmate, theists. Or are you going to say that eyeballs are proof of God?

>>6924892

>some of the most profound moral wisdom written down

absolute kek

>Old Testament holds little to no relevance to real catholic.

kill yourself

>>6924871
come on dude

>>6924897
>look it up
see, this is where i knew you were full of shit

>>6924892
I could get even more moral wisdom from Plato, Aristotle, even Hitler (he only tried to genocide one race, after all). Why not just consider Nichomachean Ethics the moral equivalent of the Bible and be done with it? Why bring a supreme being along with constant tribal slaughter and Levantine politics into it?

>>6924897
>You're funny, and a lovely example of pretentious ignorance. Have fun growing up.

>>6924897
Here's a response to your memebait, try harder next time

>>6924810
I'm still here. Come to Allah, bros. It's literally the one true Lord.

>>6924900
lel, some 20 something fuccboi on a weeb forum knows what wisdom is, thanks for playing brev

>>6924899
yeah, which follow physical laws already in place in the ur-system, the first system, whatever you want to call the universe. you wanna tell me how these physical laws were set in the first place?

Blindness in the presence of Christianity is the crime par excellence — the crime against life...The millennia, the peoples, the first as well as the last, the philosophers and the old ladies — except for five or six moments in history, me being the seventh — in this respect they all deserve each other. The Christian has hitherto been the “moral being,” a curiosity without equal — and, as a “moral being” more absurd, vain, mendacious, frivolous, injurious to himself than even the greatest despiser of mankind could ever have dreamed. Christian morality — the most malevolent form of the will to the lie, the real Circe of mankind: that which has ruined it. It is not the error as error whose aspect fills me with terror, not the thousand-year-long lack of “good will” , of breeding, of bearing, of bravery in spiritual things which betrays itself in this victory — it is the lack of nature, it is the utterly dreadful fact that anti-nature itself took home the highest honors and has remained hanging over mankind as law, as categorical imperative!...To blunder in this way, not as an individual, not as a people, but as mankind in general!...That contempt has been taught for the primary instincts in life, that a“soul,” a “spirit” has been falsely invented in order to destroy the body; that people have been taught to feel something unclean in the prerequisite of life, in sexuality; that the evil principle has been sought in the deepest necessity for flourishing, in strict egoism ( — the very word is slanderous! — ); that, conversely, in the typical signs of decline and instinct-contradiction, in being “selfless,” in the loss of center of gravity, in “depersonalization” and “neighbor-love” ( — neighbor mania!) one sees the higher value, what am I saying, the valuein-itself! ...What! Could mankind itself be in a state of décadence? Has it always been? What is certain is that it has been taught only décadence values as the highest values. The morality of self-negation is the morality of decline par excellence, the fact “I am going to ruin” translated into the imperative: “You shall all go to ruin” — and not only in the imperative!...This only morality that has been taught thus far, the morality of self-negation, reveals a will to the end, it negates life at its very foundation. — The possibility still remains that it is not mankind which is degenerating but only that parasitical species of man, the priest, who armed with morality has lied his way into a value determining position — who has divined in Christian morality his means to power...And indeed, this is my insight: the teachers, the leaders of mankind, the theologians one and all, have also been décadents one and all: hence the revaluation of all values into hostility toward life, hence morality.

>>6924897

1 - I'm writing a thesis on theology at the university of sorbonne so yeah I know more about the subject that a bunch of fedoras that think they master the subject

2 - this obsession with the bible is american and lutherian. I'm not interested in degeneracies both secular or spiritual.

3 - transhumanism new age then. Whatever, read the Elementary Particles by Michel Houellebecq.

Please kill yourself

>>6924908
because I can recognize the moral value of some the books of the bible while conveniently ignoring its dogmatic elements you sperg

>>6924918

You have too many faith on old dudes srs

They don't have the wisdom you think they have

>>6924908
>even Hitler (he only tried to genocide one race, after all)
holy keks in a can

>>6924906
http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey/

I like how all arguments against atheism are basically just ad hominem

>edgy
>no morality
>wanting to be contrarian
>fedora
>go back to reddit

You people cannot provide a shred of evidence for your religious beliefs. So you just resort to ad hominem attacks.

Time and time again, we challenge you to provide proof, and you never do. So you just take on this mantle of false superiority and act as if atheists are immature and stupid by default.

Being anything other than agnostic is for cucks

>>6924918
Nobody knows, at least not yet. It's a matter of faith.

However, we can infer that the likelihood that the Christian God is supreme is no more or less likely than the Islamic Allah, or the Hindu gods or Native American gods or Greek or Roman gods. Indeed, do all of these gods exist? None? Just one? Why that one and not another?

>>6924928

So ? You don't understand these people aren't suppose to be scholars. Not talking about heretics. But catholics don't revere a book. They live their spiritual faith through sacraments that works in mysterious ways. Keep the book (and moon) worship for muslim please.

>>6924925
>I want to read the Bible for moral, not religious purposes

Jesus would be EXTREMELY displeased by this

>>6924698
Christposters are the cancer that is killing /lit.

>>6924932

>He still doesn't understand his obsession with proof is absolutely irrelevant
>He still won't explain why many brilliant scientific minds were actually catholic
>He still believes in the opposition between science and religion

What are you ? 12 ? Read some books please you're embarrassing to yourself. Looking through the scientific inconsistencies of the last nerd movies doesn't make you a scientific authority.

>>6924926
>le old dudes meme
Just add the word 'White' and you're using a stereotypically retarded feminist argument.

>>6924892
>most profound moral wisdom
Maybe in the OT, but Jesus Christ's moral wisdom is garbage as is Paul.

>>6924932
>ime and time again, we challenge you to provide proof, and you never do. So you just take on this mantle of false superiority and act as if atheists are immature and stupid by default.

>>6924926
>heh those ancients heh, i mean they didnt even have smartphones :^)

harder lives means a greater proclivity for truth-seeking and forging a healthy relationship with the facts of reality.

this lib insistence on devaluing the potency of ancient teachings because something something 2015 something something progressive is retarded as fuck

>>6924945
>I believe in things with no proof

Literally the definition of an insane person

>>6924936
Islamic Allah and Judeo-Christian Yehovah are one in the same

>>6924950

The "it's 2015" sentence is the stupidest shit that exists. Modernfags are convinced that new shit automatically erase old beliefs and knowledge. Pathetic, ignorant and sad.

>>6924936
I'm not arguing for a christian God. I think the personal God of Christianity is personally a bit naive. But the existence of a supreme principle that is responsible for love and shit I believe in very deeply.

>>6924803
>(you have obiously no theological or historical knowledge at all)
Good point.

>>6924955
>>6924936

>>6924928
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

dude, they literally have the same test for you to do it, and guess what? is literally some bullshit superficial trivia about different religions and Americunt religious policy that you would get asked on family feud. It doesnt constitute any serious amount of "knowledge" anymore than you "know" the theory of evolution as saying that "we come from monkeys"

Seriously, it is embarrassing you would cite "that" as a source

>>6924955

You are mistaking scientific explanation for proof. Again the obsession with rational thinking. Rational thinking is good for apprehending many things, but not for apprehending spiritual or metaphysical matters (on the limits of rationalism, just read Kant or Pascal, goddam ignorant fag). At the very best you'll get traces, hints of a larger entity, but never a scientific proof.

>>6924956
How can you know?

>>6924959
How can you know?

>>6924964
How can you be so stupid?

Atheists are indeed plebs. With their narrow scientific way or seeing everything they usually don't care for poetry, literature or anything that isn't measurable.

>>6924932
we already provided proof, you havent formulated a plausible objection that doesnt strawman the shit out of the arguments

also, why do you use proof and evidence interchangeably?

>>6924972

You think science helps you to KNOW anything ?Are you actually that moronic ? It helps you apprehend some phenomenons at the very best.

>>6924967
My God is better than your god. My God is infinitely better than your god, in fact. And you're going to Super Mega Hell as soon as this thread ends.

No, I don't have proof. I have an inner knowledge that apprehends extremely spiritual and metaphysical matters that you couldn't possibly hope to understand.

So, I guess you'll just have to eat shit, pal, because I am absolutely sure my God has decided you're fucked. Enjoy being fucked. Eternally.

>>6924979
Humanity has progressed so much because of science! Just look at the iPad!

>>6924987
this thread is about atheists, who have no gods
nice strawman

>>6924972
I'm gonna give you the tl;dr version but

i've achieved spurts or glimpses of what might be called a religious experience through meditation and study. it was nondual awareness. my ego, my name, my history, it all disappeared. i was only a perception; everything just was. and all that i felt in this state was a very deep and powerful love for everything and everyone that existed. the "is-ness" of reality affected me so powerfully that i truly believe there is something.

>>6924957

How is an appeal to tradition more valid?

>>6924979
Being unable to know anything (in your broad metaphysical sense) leaves us unable to worship or have faith in anything. Religion or having any faith at all is functionally walking into an immense black pit and expecting to be caught by an angel before you die.

I, for one, am going to worship Athena.

>>6924987
this would be a totes sick nasty burn if p much every religious and spiritual figure throughout history worth his salt didn't preach about the same God of Love as they apprehended him. nice try tho

>>6924998
Are you calling me an atheist? I wouldn't be caught dead as one. Fortunately, my God precludes all atheists from enjoying Super Mega Heaven, so it's not an issue after they all die.

But the nerve that you'd call the one true believer this world has an atheist, well, that means you're going to Utter Fucking Giga Hell, where you'll be raped eternally by Super Mega NegaGod, the evil inverse of the actual God.

>>6925002
>4 Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth.

heh those kooky ancients, what will they think of next?

there is nothing inherently traditionalist about "being a lazy faggot leaves you broke and miserable, but working hard improves your station in life".

c'mon are you even trying?

>>6924988
Just look at that polio vaccine, eh? Fucking scientists, think they have all the answers. Fuck 'em, eh?

>>6925011
wot r u doin m8

>>6925001
Wow, you were duped by your own sensory experiences into thinking there was a god or universal equivalent. Great job trusting your senses to discern that which transcends.

>>6925005
thanks for abbreviating words you didn't need to abbreviate, now I know which post to ignore

ps, your post was very unclear anyway, please work on your grammar and sarcasm

>>6925017
All nonbelievers will perish in fire, you included. Sorry man, you could've been saved.