/lit/ - Literature

This is the guy Mira is dating. He is the older brother of Spencer Madsen, the guy who published her debut poetry collection 'i will never be beautiful enough to make us beautiful together'

Wassup mira :P

Would drive the beef bus into tuna town, tbh.

>>6907083
Nice

Self-deprecating feel-sorry-for-my-anxiety trash. It's the kind of shit that Third worlders giggle at because her writings honestly revolve around the struggles of taking Xanax and watching Netflix to 'kill the void.'

So winter's coming up /mu/, what will you be listening to in bed with your gf on cold winter nights?

>>6907164
Beach House, Simon and Garfunkel, Todd Rundgren, stuff like that.

>>6907162
>"Mira: Yeah, thats all anyone is ever trying to do. I guess. Kill the void. Although, maybe there are writers out there who just ‘write fiction’ and don’t have to make themselves depressed to do it. God help the rest of us. Do you ever feel like writing makes you miserable? O do you ever make yourself depressed for the purpose of writing?"

http://www.electriccereal.com/mira-gonzalez-has-a-conversation-with-andrew-worthington/

>>6907171
I seriously hate this girl. I've never seen someone so blatantly perpetuate a manufactured image of the tortured artist and get away with it. Just infuriating

Indeed an embarrasingly talentless author, yet her topics of alt lit motif favs like being an unattractive woman, aka the bottom rung of society will inevitably locate an audience for her to peddle her garbage writing to because people read lit they find they relate to, tbh

>>6907176
It's because she's cute and people either want to be her or to fuck her

What I've read of hers seems uninspiring and she's a bit of a camwhore which is an unattractive trait.

>>6907204
Kolsti

>>6907213
is the worst

I think she's ok, but /lit/ will never have anything but hatred for a female writer who doesn't write like someone from the early 1900's

>>6907236
But that's not true. What about Flannery O'Connor, Elizabeth Smart, Amy Hempel etc?

/lit/ BTFO

>>6907246
man I feel like I might be wrong now, but I want to be right so I'm not gonna admit it. The exception(s) doesn't make the rule.

>>6907236
Get the fuck out of here we are probably the most tolerant board. Why is she good besides "I support contemporary women."

>>6907262
most tolerant board is true, but it's like being the most tolerant nazi. I don't think she's outstanding. Sometimes when I read her poems (I've only read her first book) it feels like the world is simpler than I think it is in a good way.

>>6907276
Oh I see, you don't actually know what good writing is or entails and you think she is "okay" because she conveys a vague simplistic worldview. Nice. Keep those patronizing accusations coming

>>6907256
God I fucking hate these people.

>>6907282
wow art is subjective I guess, you nazi

>>6907286
A fine example of an absolute pleb who wanders into a thread and posts "this author is good but /lit/ doesn't get it because x reason (x = misogynistic, racist, etc) and when asked why she is a decent writer, falls back on "she makes me feel good sometimes in a vague way." Don't make posts like this.

Just pointing it out, don't take offense

>>6907256

Whats the theoretical justification for acting like this?

I know its about "hurr oppressed class can lash out and its not racism/sexism because that class has no power" but where is this idea coming from?

I know its co-opted marx, but who did that? Because even Marx would have hated this bullshit and thought it was subversive towards the communist cause.

>>6907295
okay here's a poem:

one guy gave me alcohol then diagnosed me with 'major depressive disorder'
i said 'i don't think i have that' and 'thank you'
today i stole and drank 3 red bulls
people have gone into cardiac arrest from drinking more than 3 red bulls in a day
thinking about dying makes me feel tiny and calm
i feel mostly uninterested in dying right now
at 2pm i took pain killers and walked to the beach
i touched a crab and a sea urchin and a squishy thing
i think i am going to stop wearing my glasses
things seem better when i can't see clearly
i want to have an emotion that feels like being slowly punched in the face for 3 years


I think the glasses imagery is cool.
The juxtaposition of the red bull thing with the major depressive disorder thing is cool
and then the beach painkiller thing right afterwards and how it undermines the red bull thing undermining the depressive thing is cool
The last line made me smile to myself

>>6907309
>I think the glasses imagery is cool.
>The juxtaposition of the red bull thing with the major depressive disorder thing is cool
>and then the beach painkiller thing right afterwards and how it undermines the red bull thing undermining the depressive thing is cool
>The last line made me smile to myself
Damn. I won't even try to argue with this. Enjoy your poem

>>6907320
thanks u 2

>>6907256
Isn't her dad like some rich rockstar? Thank god underprivileged people like her can finally have their say.

>>6907296
Playing victim and being weak in a society where you're virtually impervious to harm grants you power because those who hold power are forced to take your side to sustain the idea that you're invincible to protect not only you from those who aren't as weak and dumb as you but the idea itself.
But who created it? Decline in traditional values and rise of the opposite.

>>6907049
I haven't read anything she has written, but her twitter account is pretty humorous.

>>6907164
Beach House, Simon and Garfunkel, Todd Rundgren, stuff like that

>>6907049

Fuck Mira, Does anyone have one of Katie's videos so I can hear her angelic voice?

>>6907168
>>6907513
Why was this posted twice? I don't get it.

>>6907168
>>6907513
Why was this posted twice? I don't get it.

>>6907309
This reads like an uninspired Bukowski poem. "i said, i have, i stole, i feel, i touched, i think, i can't, i want"

There is absolutely nothing poetic about this piece, it's just ramblings and complaints that aren't even aesthetically pleasing.
>today i stole and drank 3 red bulls
people have gone into cardiac arrest from drinking more than 3 red bulls in a day
thinking about dying makes me feel tiny and calm
>3 red bulls x2
>tiny and calm
Lazy.
How this passes as poetry is beyond me. It's a blog post in lowercase that references drugs and name brands.

Though I think you are precisely the kind of audience she is going for: someone who doesn't know anything about poetry/writing that finds her aimless ramblings about drugs, the beach, energy drinks and faux depression 'cool' and that's really what it boils down to. People think "hey, that's cool. She's depressed and does drugs and hates living. Haha me too, fuck suburbia. Cool."

>>6907557
>"i said, i have, i stole, i feel, i touched, i think, i can't, i want"
This is a better poem.

>>6907557
cool post

>>6907557
Yep

>>6907236
Lydia Davis is fucking awesome.

>>6907236
None of these people should have any fame. It's just Tao Lin working the industry and the delusions of certain young people around himself (Gonzalez, e.g.) so as to market himself as part of a 'movement'.

ehh my boi tao lin pimping her atm so he can make some cash for his drug addiction

>>6907049
Most of her poems that I've read seem to be about herself, what substances she consumes and her relatively dull undergraduate observations. Sometimes she can be witty, but with such a narrow view she simply isn't going to ever be worth reading if she doesn't grow as an artist.

Even if she was an amazing poet, or even just somebody who could write their way out of a paperbag - she would be nothing more than another Philip Roth. Just another upper-class American writer with an exaggerated sense of self who should have stopped after their first book.

If she wrote about something other than herself, her depression and how much xanax and tumblr brain-farts she produces, I'd give her another look.

I read an anecdote about a gorilla once. When it was given a piece of paper and a pencil and eventually persuaded to draw, it just drew lines down the page, the bars of its own cage. Somebody who can't write about anything other than their own limitations isn't worth the effort.

>>6907879
Nice thought. I really like Roth, but otherwise, nice thought.

>>6907841
Nah. Tao Lin doesn't think in terms of movements or the industry. Those are just things other people say about him. What he's actually doing is just setting up a place for him and his friends to publish shit so that they don't have to go through the system. Also so he can make money without having to write shit himself.

tl;dr: you're giving him too much credit

>>6907351
>But who created it? Decline in traditional values and rise of the opposite.
Pity olympics is a mode of identity politics, which is a liberal reaction of ressentiment by middle-to-upper class people. This ressentiment is a necessary cause of your so-called "traditional values", another name for class conflict that manifests as racial, ethnic, sex, and gender conflicts in addition to the proletariat-capitalist conflict.

Class division and exploitation (which especially includes racial division in the US) causes the exploited to arise and demand their share of society, which naturally belongs entirely to the workers: the creators of society. The capitalist regime, interested in its own survival and aware it cannot defeat a militant proletariat, doles out its concessions to the exploited in exchange for its maintained class structure, which the divided, undereducated, oppressed proletariat are more than willing to agree to. Thus, the exploited persons maintain their exploited nature but access a greater level of mobility and inclusion. As time moves along and these exploited persons become better educated, obtain capital, become engrained into the structure, they are more able to voice their continued oppressions.

It is this meager concession of mobility and voice that causes the middle-and-upper class and White ressentiment, a false dream of the past where they (the "deserving" against the "undeserving") live in a world that treats them "correctly". That is what "traditional values" means. Like the racial and ethnic minorities, they (the White worker) buy into an illusion that keeps them controlled, distracted, focused on some enemy (your "opposite") that keeps them away from their real enemy (the capitalist dictatorship).

People like Mira Gonzalez represent the bourgeoisie that register the inflated success of the lower-classes, learned from it, and appropriate it for their own success (albeit in her case on a personal, non-political level). Where the African-Americans, for example, of the Civil Rights Movements of the US emphasized their very real and quantifiable oppression at the hands of the Whites, the Bourgeoisie and Petite-Bourgeoisie since then learned to cry foul even louder as a means of accumulating economic and emotional capital. You see this ressentiment in the White male reactionaries especially as they cry about immigrants, "discrimination" against Christians, Affirmative Action, minority representation in reality and fiction, and SJW; you see it in Jewish politics that manipulates history (up to and including the Holocaust*) to justify Israeli domination and crimes against humanity; you see it in the internetizens that create bizarre sexual identities like furries and blog about every perceived micro-aggression against them, real or imagined; etc.

tl;dr wake the fuck up.

>>6908151
>tl;dr wake the fuck up.
Let me fix that for you:
>tl;dr wake the fuck up SHEEPLE!!

>>6908151
What drivel. You could have made your "point" in two sentences if you didn't include all the useless padding.

Regardless, Mira isn't an expression of the oppressed proletariat, she's an expression of the jilted end product of late-stage capitalism: she's shallow, cannot see beyond her own nose, has no political inclinations or any kind of affiliation to her fellow worker (mainly because she barely qualifies as one), and is so absurdly isolated from the means of production she probably wouldn't even know what "hoe" really means.

>>6907879
>I read an anecdote about a gorilla once. When it was given a piece of paper and a pencil and eventually persuaded to draw, it just drew lines down the page, the bars of its own cage.
Lel is this true or are you going parabolic on us

>>6907557
i don´t want to look what elaborated poetry you read.

>>6907162
Yeah.

And I don't know, I'm not above seeing depression and mental illness as something interesting to read about, but her whole shtick is just so predictable and boring at this point. She's like dozens of people I've met throughout my life, and she's not even particularly eloquent about it.

The fact she's actually a writer of the newer generation and she managed to get the acclaim of the hip publications like New Inquiry and Quietus is mindblowing. It seems out of place. It's the equivalent of a stand-up comedian who wears a leather jacket, smokes on stage and rants about political correctness becoming succesful today.

She is the woman I've wanted all my life.

She also published a book with Tao Lin so she can't be that bad.

>>6908200
>What drivel. You could have made your "point" in two sentences if you didn't include all the useless padding.
>Regardless, Mira isn't an expression of the oppressed proletariat
How would you know when you didn't even read it? Dumbass.

>>6907309
this is horrible

>>6908352
why?

read an "essay" of hers that read like a rambling adolescent diary entry. Only the subject matter was chemical dependence and "social media presence".

no thx jeff

>>6907309
This reads as if Bukowski was a 16 year old girl with self-esteem issues.

>>6908251
>I can only read the half-hearted daily musings of Mira Gonzalez
>eveything else is too much
K pleb

Girls do not appeal to me. Their beauty passes away like a dream and like yesterday when it is past. Their faithfulness- yes, their faithfulness! Either they are faithless-this does not concern me any more-or they are faithful. IfI found such a one, she would appeal to me from the standpoint ofher being a rarity; but from the standpoint of a long period of time she would not appeal to me, for either she would continually re- main faithful, and then I would become a sacrifice to my ea- gerness for experience, since I would have to bear with her, or the time would come when she would lapse, and then I would have the same old story.

>>6907296
during the 1960s some marxist scholars became disappointed that the working classes weren't increasingly their radicalization and were instead happy working in the capitalist system for more concessions, so started to consider minorities as the new "radical class" that could become revolutionary. somehow through second wave feminism upper class women attached themselves to this complaining about their pampered, upper class "oppression" and using convoluted analysis to justify how they could be oppressed. women cried victimization, minorities cried victimization (at least at the time the minorities were right) and this started to dominate academia as social mobility declined throughout the 70s and 80s and fewer working class people became academics and the upper middle class who preferred critical theory dominated. with minorities and women being the focus of "radical" marxist scholarship, white males were defined as the "oppressor." since these were all upper middle class people, they didn't care to distinguish these white males by social class. upper middle class students going into the universities were seduced by this because it naturally appeals to the 'radical' inclinations of intelligent young people to react against the perceived dominant power. with anti-racism being such a prominent cultural norm, white males themselves embraced this to show they were the "right kind" of white person.

this is a very short and very very rough summary of what happened.

i feel their days are numbered because they are becoming increasingly orthodox and increasingly ridiculous and subject to parody and ridicule.

>>6907296
Marxism and Post-Structuralism walk into a bar. After a night of partying and bad decisions they have really, really kinky sex. Nine months later out comes identity politics, gender studies, and post-colonialism.

If that was a fat, 35 year old woman writing the same things, would anybody care?

The answer is no, and that says it all.

>>6907296
Lenin. State and Revolution.

>>6907162
As a third worlder who had no table to eat on, I laugh at this.

>>6907296
people like blaming the big Other for their problems.

Honestly I don't care if she is a bad poet it wouldn't be the first time a bad poet has been published. She fits a need for a specific consumer demand

>>6907339
her step-dad was in Black Flag, so, yeah

if someone gave me this poem,without me knowing who the writer is,i would say this was made by some suicide girl in her late teens.the fact that this was published is quite mind blowing.

>>6907262
/mu/ is the most tolerant board

>>6907561
no it's not, it's a fakedeep gimmick that mimes universality without saying anything. I'm not a huge fan of the Mira poem but it's way better

>>6907557
you keep saying things like 'poetic' and 'aesthetically pleasing', can you explain what these mean to you? or at least confirm that they aren't supposed to have articulable meaning, if not?

>>6907083
/thread
Everything there is to say about this topic; anything else is just sugar on the cake.

>>6908151
Nice post. Thank you for taking the time to write it

I think I’ve encountered the claim before, that feminism is underlies, in some way the Marxist theory. I concluded that that’s just Americans talking, Americans which grew up being taught a an anti-Russian mentality.

Regarding what you then say: Why would anyone believe the minorities could be a placeholder for the whole working class - how would they ever control enough?

>perceived dominant power
but they were the dominant power - maliciously intended or not.

>>6907256
when will Trump finally be elected and rid us of this blight

>>6908439

thank u

scum

Stop having opinions about these people. You are wasting your life.

>>6908439

Animal Farm.

She seems to be very proud of being hooked on ecstasy and tweets something literally every 5 hours, but at least she's some kind of funny. At least at first look - probably it gets stale fast.

>>6908307
You wanted to be a cuck your whole life?

>>6907256
Oh wow, so she's literally "Tumblr, the writer" then?

>I have anxiety; feel bad for me
>Look how quirky I am!
>Weed for everyone!

>>6907286
>>6907276
Wow. This is the first time I've seen Godwin's law play out on /lit/.

>>6907557
It reads like my poetry. The difference being that I know my poetry is awful, whereas she does not.

male with potential creative demiurge
>hrrngh no one cares about my potential creative demiurge i'm gonna try harder to poop it out and make real art

woman with potential creative demiurge
>*does anything*
>*gets attention and praise*
>*does anything again, but this time while making a cutesy face and showing off that she's a cute girl*
>*gets infinite attention and praise*
>*tweets*
>*gets infinite attention and praise*
>*hits mid twenties*
>*fades into obscurity*
>*wonders why*

AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AND ALSO PRETTY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY AREN'T I QUIRKY

>literally who?
>wikipedia

>Dazed & Confused magazine chose it as their poetry book of the week, averring that "Mira Gonzalez is a phenomenon of the same breed as Tao Lin: she might actually be the only literary social media presence more prolific and more intense."

>dazed & confused magazine
>tao lin
>social media presense
>mfw everything about this quote

>>6908962
If this was written by a 13 year old male, it would be passed around on /b/ in cringe threads.

Mira Gonzalez
Poet
People also search for Tao Lin

>>6908962
Why do these girls think that performed naivety is cute?

Why does anyone think that kind of twitter "humour" is funny?

Why can't America be crushed into nothing already?

>>6908583
As a 4th worlder with no mouth to eat with, I had a muffled laugh at this.

Co-opted depression-chic, tbh

Can we start calling this lamewave by that name pls

>>6907256
She only likes BBC, my dreams are crushed ;-;

>>6908394
>implying he wasn't
You're kidding yourself if you think Bukowski isn't exactly as shitty as she is. He was just shitty in a way that appealed to edgy teen faggots and manchildren while she's shitty in a way that appeals to modern drug and social media-addled 20-something zombies.

>>6909573
>literally who?
No, that's the ChiSox

>>6909983
Nah, literally who describes her well. I never heard of her until someone started posting assmad threads about her on /lit/. She's the type of "author" or even "social media personality" who seems like she'd be almost entirely unknown outside a relatively small circle without people unintentionally promoting her by complaining about her. She and the people who shitpost these threads about her are equally cancerous, tbh.

It'd be better to ignore her entirely.

>>6909797
I'm a 5th worlder. I basically don't even exist outside of the thought of my existence.

>woman of out modern western society who lived an easier life than 90% of world male population
The perfect image of an oppressed woman who should have an opinion on this world, right guys?

>>6910002
It was a /sp/ joke lad

>>6909960
That's exactly what I was saying. The key part being he wasn't a 16 year old girl with self-esteem issues but a fat alcoholic.

Is it just me or has there been a noticeable uptick in the number of alt lit threads this week? Either I'm paranoid or we're getting viraled.

>>6910241
4chan has been viral for years, it's just sometimes people realise that there are other boards than /b/ and mine them for content.

>>6907523
this is one of the worst things /lit/ has ever done.

>>6910241
You do sound like a paranoid little fuccboi but even if that's what's happening it's a waste of time because the response has been overwhelmingly negative. Viral marketing is pointless unless you have an audience that's receptive to it.

>>6910319
Literally who cares

Just some thin skinned girl with an inflated sense of self worth

>>6909941

Tumblrinas love white dick mang. I don't know why but it's bizarre.

I met an anorexic Indian SJW (the kind that describes themselves as genderqueer and uses triggerwarnings) that traded me nudes for the longest time. She always made bullshit excuses for not meeting up with me, but last I heard she's dating a white guy that she described as "slightly racist," which I took to mean not indoctrinated in the far left but otherwise unprejudiced.

>>6910331
picking on a girl who just wants to be cute and discuss old literature. yeah, that was something to be proud of.

>>6910241
No. It's just been me. Been too tired to go out, and /co/ has been confining Steven Universe stuff to /sug/ threads...

>>6910406

Of course you alt lit faggot like that terrible show

>>6910432
You all?

>>6910406
Suck my dick, Mira.

>>6910378
its not bizarre its bait
4chan is too retarded to see past it. I know plenty of girls in my university who do all this sjw #blacklivesmatter shit on twitter and instagram
but refuse to date black guys. or even talk to them i

Its just their way of getting people to pay attention to them since they are probably to insecure to rely on their looks.

Its why time and time again whenever you discuss the thing they're whining about with logic they cant refute because they dont know anything or care. just want attention


tl:dr if u see a girl whining about the white male ask her out shes bluffing

>>6908906
she's a product of your culture, you deal with her.
We don't really want her screeching her bullshit ''ideology'' down here, we already have enough problems without this feminist and identity politics bullshit

I think her material is overrated by upper/middle class young men who build her up in their heads to be this "savior" that understands and empathizes their pessimistic view on society and approach to life.

>>6910848
I've never seen anyone say anything good about her. Ever.

>>6910441
I'm from Kentucky, yeah we say you all. The only time I hear y'all is if someone's exaggerating their countryness.

>>6910432
Haven't laughed as hard on 4chan in a loooooooooooong time

>>6907049
There's a part of me that wonders if Mira contains a deeper feeling to her that sjw/marxist analysis is independent of.

The feeling I get from her and Tao Lin's literature is that the culture is drifting so deeply into the abyss of the internet that standard quality assumptions for writing are irrelevant. There is a depression that comes with the self-inflicted ostracism of an internet-addicted culture, like looking at a display behind the glass... and I find it interesting that these types of writers are getting produced out of it.

>>6907049
There's this amnesia that's symptomatic of modern writers who don't have a regard for literary traditions and the whole arc of it all... In everything I see about Tao Lin he is writing out of a blank place, and it's as if literature in the 2010s has reached Tabula Rasa, because our collective knowledge has been shipwrecked into the internet.

>>6907049
>people call her the voice of our generation
>i want to puke because all she does is disembowel herself on paper, like DFW or Tao Lin without any of the literary talent
>she's still more famous than I'll ever be for some reason
>If I met her I'd politely tell her I respect her poetry and try to get in her pants
>Judging by her stuff I might actually succeed
>This is how much of a victim she sets herself up to be.

>MFW welcome to the world of new sincerity

>>6911304
yeah but is that really all there is to our generation, niggah? are we really so bent on reducing ourselves to that and only that? Don't you see the destructive self-fulfilling prophecy of this?

>>6911316
All the more reason we need inventive, inspired prose, not Lin's garbage filterless nonsense with BEE's stamp of approval on it. Even Ellis was fantastic at prose, but to see how similar-minded modern authors are handling storytelling it's just a shame. There's something very loathsome about drawing that heavily from your daily life.

There seems a great distinction between writers of a decade-or-two and now... I think a writer like David Foster Wallace wanted, through his literature, to make Herculean efforts to try and save the world from implosion and consumption, and his passion was so great over it that it destroyed him...

But it seems like in the digital waves that have washed him from the shore, we now see this new type of author, born out of the maelstrom, and are not alarmed any longer by the confines around them; the literature they produce has this utter quiescence to an environment that no literate man had hoped for.

>>6911304
>that standard quality assumptions for writing are irrelevant

Oh fuck off m8

>>6911327
Dude, at least Tao Lin can write good prose. There's a lot of fine stuff in Tai Pei. And in his case, he's consciously dealing with the void of the internet age. Gonzalez never gets past haha look at how shitty this is, like the deepest, blandest irony steeped in the cloak of new sincerity, and without any of the artisic merit or literary skill.

That said I agree. We need actual good writers. People with vision, who deal with the internet void in a way that's ever so slightly more meaningful than i drank three redbulls and thought about dying and felt tiny.

I'm just sayin' don't lump this child in with Tao Lin.

>>6911326
Oh of course, it's definitely a self-fulfilling prophesy to believe in ourselves. I think each writer has a unique perspective on what writing means for them, so I don't mean to undermine it. It's just a comment on how this internet-laden culture is produce a sort of illiterate-minded literati... if that makes sense. But again, as individuals we should feel every impulse to revolt or investigate our relationship to that phenomena (in my opinion it's one of the only things worth living for)

>>6911332
you mean they're fucking depressed and not even trying anymore to take their minds back from the void? Because in case you hadn't noticed that's the case for both gonzalez and lin, and there's little serenity about it in real life. They're socially destructive drug addicts.
It's not enlightenment, just giving up. The ultimate form of moral and intellectual laziness.
I'm with Dylan Thomas on this one. Rage, motherfucker, against the Dying of the Light.

>>6911350
okay, i can get on board with that. but then let's discuss alternate takes on the phenomenon, ours, and let's not surrender the literary landscape to Gonzalez and her fellows who inspire us to be nothing but apathetic cowards.

Fuck man I believe in a world beyond judgment or strife, but I don't believe in a world where all we have to say is 'oh yeah i'm depressed and I don't care about anything lol please do keep giving me attention though'

>>6910327
>Viral marketing is pointless unless you have an audience that's receptive to it
You can't look at Tao Lin and tell me that's not exactly what happened. If the words "go to bed" mean anything to you, it worked, you are part of that audience.

>>6911346
I agree, in the thesis I've been trying to say Tao Lin seems proto-typical of a new sort of writer born out of the internet age but without remorse about it (if that simplifies it). What's interesting though is Tao doesn't seem to have the pathos about him like DFW. It doesn't seem like he wants to "save the culture" in the way that literature is so often about (DH Lawrence, Charles Dickens, so many philosophers who want their work to be the "last philosophy"). And that too says to me of how the culture of today is divorced from literary trends now, maybe forever, with Tao as the example

>>6911371
It's not just that he's not struggling with literary trends, though. It's like he's entirely given up on improving anything about life. Which, why live, then?

Man, I want to feel some searing fucking righteous indignation while reading. If that emotion has left us and become somehow outdated or outmoded all it says is that we've become poorer as a culture.

That said I think you made a really insightful point anon and I'm very glad to get to discuss this beyond shitposts with someone who has clearly thought about it on some level.

>>6911353
Damn man, well let's keep writing! Stars-blighted upon the black-fucked sky, let these pages bloom flowers that only I may ever smell.

It's just that, when I think of the measure that I try to take from escaping the void, it rouses my empathy; and I can see how people like Mira Gonzalez are doing the same thing really, and my empathy gets roused.

>>6911371
To me it just says that Tao and his ilk are small minded, and instead of thinking deeper about our current condition and trying to arrive at a solution or at least a better understanding of it they're content to present it in the most simple-minded, self-absorbed way. Their writing will never mean nearly as much to anyone else as it does to themselves, and ultimately it will never mean anything to society or history. In short, it's bad literature.

>>6910441
he typed "you alt" you buffalo humping northdunce

>>6911358
Well yes! I agree, there's no reason in the world to be affected by the apathy of someone like Gonzalez (or Tao Lin, for that matter) I mean, for any one of us to produce beautiful writing that gets published and affects the culture in even a tiny way is in the window of opportunity (and why not, if we care about it, spend our lives trying to achieve it?)

But futhermore I think to even create literature in our current age would be one of the most beautiful experiences we could have.

>>6911389
>Man, I want to feel some searing fucking righteous indignation while reading. If that emotion has left us and become somehow outdated or outmoded all it says is that we've become poorer as a culture.

RIghteous indignation is by far the worst plague on our contemporary culture man, what are you talking about? All the SJWs being outraged over the slightest bullshit is a sign of a rich culture to you?

>>6911389
No problem dude, I guess just from doing some writing myself I've been forming a lot of thoughts about this topic, so it kind of came out of me. :P

>>6910848
>upper/middle class young men
I think these guys just want to get balls deep in her cunt with such veracity that they stink of her for the whole next week

>>6910147
As a sixth worlder, I was executed from the depths of hell when I read that.

>>6911398
okay, but how about you write out of that empathy, then? because Gonzalez and Lin, in case you hadn't noticed, have pretty much none. They are both just about the most narcissistic, self-obsessed artists you will ever find.

>all these complaints that the current state of literature is in the hands of 'depressed' wealthy druggy kids
Holy shit, I'm so glad I started reading Wordsworth and Coleridge last year, because my writing is now far less influenced by Lin and more by Romanticism and Transcendentalism. I think this is what we need to bring literature back tbh
Not that I'm going to ever be a name, even if I ever get published, but it doesn't hurt to try to bring some light back into the medium

>>6911414
this is true. let's celebrate it as a beautiful thing then, and not do a lin/gonzalez and just sora drivel it out and pretend it doesn't mean anything to us --
(IE gonzalez' 'do you write because you're depressed, or do you make yourself depressed so you can write?' bs)

also anon i love you a little bit. we have taken the opportunity to speak (to some extent) meaningfully and at least attempt to lift this thread out of total shitposter hell.

>>6907049
I like her work.
>>6907256
As long as I ignore shit like this

>>6911424
there's righteous indignation and then there's self-serving whininess. I mean the kind where you talk about things that actually matter and don't pretend that the world is irreperably fucked or not in need of improvement.
I'll admit that there needs to be some serious thought and consideration involved; we don't wanna turn literature into fox news 2.0
But i feel like there's a serious danger tha twe will go down in history as the apathetic generation that didn't give a fuck that its habits were poisoning the earth, and i mean, really guys?

>>6911467
>I like her work
>im new to the Internet tho lol

>>6911474
Do you really like not know how to filter out the person from their work? I'm sorry anon.

>>6911480
the person whose work consists of nothing but talking about her person
yeah no good point

>>6911484
You're right. I change my mind. Not only do I not like her work, I don't have the patience to ignore her persona.

>>6911466
Hey you too! I mean, it's rare to shoot these strings of deep-feeling across an anime image board and wonder if it lands to someone who cares about it too.

And yes, for sure, try to reach deep in what you're writing for -- I think Gonzalez's thought of "writing for depression or writing because of depression" has a lot of philosophical issues to me, it's short-sighted --- Depression and writing shouldn't be hand in hand (I really resent the idea of depression is conducive to writing // composing works in a happy, blissful way has just as much validity, and is the ideal in my opinion,) I think they can coincide, but however, I think that an author should entwine their relationship to both in a way that is faithful to each, if that makes sense? rather then exploiting them like in "making yourself depressed so you can write"

>>6911507
Yeah, i think i get what you mean. First of all it's really incredibly emotionally impoverished. It results in a depressingly (literally, huehue) small artistic range. That, and it feels forced and artificial, unfaithfully limiting like you say. All of this only further reinforces my disgust with the depression-chic movement, tbh. To talk with DFW, she's selling us the bars of the cage as the cage's escape.

Also, cheers anon. I think I'm gonna check out to bed now, but it's been a good one, and it's good to know there are likeminded anons out there who are interested in more than bleakness.

Keep reaching, friend.

>>6911524
To materialize emotions, and upon their pegs hang our wreaths

>>6911524
This discussion has inspired me to write. Fuck Alt-Lit and New Sincerity, we live in a world with so much information and media available to us. The amount of art, history, ideas and people you can encounter from anywhere in the world is astounding. If your only inspiration is yourself in this day and age then you're nought but a clown who pretends to be an artist.

>>6911507
Writing is an art. To reduce it to as narrow a field of inspiration as 'depression' shows a profound lack of both reading and writing experience.

Depression is nothing new. There are amazing works from the 19th century all the way to the 21st that deal with alienation and sadness. Hunger, Notes From Underground, No Longer Human, etc There have been amazing works about depression.

Mira Gonzalez cannot hope to match such works of art, she isn't even ambitious enough to try. She doesn't want to truly evoke her depression. She wants to profit from it.

>>6911524
>Also, cheers anon. I think I'm gonna check out to bed now, but it's been a good one, and it's good to know there are likeminded anons out there who are interested in more than bleakness.
Gonzalez sucks, you guys are pussies

>>6911452
>>6910147
>>6909797
>>6908583
samefagging this hard
reddit just leave this place alone

>>6911365
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9f3f1ash9fgd5r0/Essential+Jackie+Chan+Reading+NOW+WITH+MORE+DOLPHIN+SOUNDS.zip

Well congratulations! You got your shit stolen! Now what's the next step in your master plan?

>>6911323
Literally no one who matters is saying any of those things and she'll be forgotten by the few people who even care in a few years. Who cares?

>>6911587
She's tumblr trying to into modern art

>>6911877
As a 9th circler, I keked.

>>6911371
>>6911389
>>6911401
DFW wasn't trying to "save" anything. He made a lot of strong-sounding statements about culture but those were just how he tried to make sense of it all for himself, he was never some patron saint of sincerity or on some sort of one man crusade against the increasingly superficial and vapid nature of it.

He was just a guy who wasn't comfortable in his own skin and was devastated by life as a result of that. Sad as it is to say, had he been born a couple of decades later, he would've just been another Tao Lin.

But on another level you're missing the point if you think writing has to offer some sort of "answer" to the void presented by life. There's no such thing as a one size fits all solution or process by which someone comes to experience it and overcome, or at least survive experiencing it. All you can ever hope to do with writing is confront it and show it to others. The main flaw of writers like Tao Lin (& friends) is that they're self-absorbed to the point of only being able to show you a pathetic little puddle of piss when they're trying to depict a bottomless ocean of shit.