/lit/ - Literature

>>6900826
You don't. Free will is an illusion.

>>6900826
Obvious bait, but to anyone wondering: you're applying human limitations to an omniscient being. Being omniscient god doesn't see time as linear but all moments simultaneously. So he sees all possible choices you will make and their outcomes but not exactly which one you choose at a given time because that would put time on a linear path. So he knew you would do X thing but also that you would do Y thing as well.

t. Odalist

what exactly do you mean when you say free choice?

one possible answer: omniscience doesn't imply knowledge of the future. at any given moment the future with respect to that moment doesn't exist, so there's nothing to be "known" about it.

>>6900970
Good post

>>6900883
Catholics tell me you do have free will with their gods.

>>6900970
>you're applying human limitations to an omniscient being
>...a superman of our invention...

But the way you describe him makes it seem like god has already done the "creation" and all of it's existence all at once. Hence why he knows everything and hence why there is no free will only destiny.

But I buy into a godless free will infinite universe, so sage this bullshit.

>>6900826
Imagine that God is a wooden ruler. You're using this ruler to measure a pillow and find out that the pillow is 18inches long at one side.

Is this side 18inches long because the ruler said so or maybe it's 18inches long because the ruler is actually that long.
What I'm saying is, God is the ruler and all he does is measure time (or look at the future), he doesn't decide them. If we did X then that's what God would foresee. On the other hand, if we did Y instead that is what God would foresee instead.

>>6901098
But if everything is predetermined, how is that a choice?

If I'm destined to do X because that is what is foreseen, I never had the option of doing Y.

Calvinism is pretty much the only Protestant denomination that makes sense to me. At least they admit believing your life was predestined.

>>6901110
>>6901110
>If I'm destined to do X because that is what is foreseen, I never had the option of doing Y.
That's not the point I was making. We're not destined to do X or Y. What I'm saying is that we do what we need/want according to our free will and God figures out what we'll do with his omnipotence.

>>6901051
>Catholics tell me you do have free will with their gods.
They are wrong

>>6901138
>What I'm saying is that we do what we need/want according to our free will and God figures out what we'll do with his omnipotence.
No, God has already elected the saved and the dammed; the course of everything is divinely ordained and immutable.

>>6900970
you just stole that shit from watchmen, how would you have any conception of how an omniscient being would think or perceive reality?

>>6901278
kek
this

>>6901268
>>6901110
leave, protestantcuck

>>6901051
leave, marxist

>>6900970

That's not free will. That's randomly being given one of several possible options. Free will would imply I can do whatever the fuck I want and nobody would possibly know that I'm going to do it.

Don't act as if you can understand G-d; ofcourse there's free-will, we just can't understand G-d's majesty so we should just accept it as truth and move on.

>>6900826
You're an idiot. You didn't even frame the question right - free *choice* is easy, it's free *will* that's hard.

>>6901278
Was manhattan the first character described as perceiving time in that way? i wonder if he stole it from watchmen or watchmen stole it from someone else

The free will question is pointless because if we don't have free will then we're willed to feel like we have free will. Living in a state of free will and living in a state of determinism is indistinguishable, the experience is the same regardless of whatever universal intent.

I always think of it this way. God knows what you will do does not mean that you are not free to do that.

Let say you look back at your past, you know what you would do but that does not mean you was not free to choose to do it at the time. And since God is out of time, He is present on the whole "timeline." Similarly, He knows about your past, present, and future choices; but that does not mean you wasn't, aren't, and won't be free to make them.

>>6901553

>so we should just accept it as truth and move on.

This is probably the dumbest thing you can possibly do with a proposition, good job