/lit/ - Literature

be a female.

>>6850687
Give them some big ol' jugs.

>>6850687
Will Self said he imagines what it would be like to have a period, maybe try that.

>>6850687
>writing anything but genderless characters
what's the motivation

>>6850713
most "genderless" characters are obviously male

>>6850720
>it's not histrionic so it's male
sálvame de estos imbéciles

>>6850736
the grossness of testosterone permeates everything

>>6850736
here's your reply

>>6850752
There's nothing inherently gross about testosterone, it's just gross in abundance

>>6850755
that only works if there isn't already a reply my sweet honey bee
>>6850752
a fair accusation, but women have been for millennia working toward the ability to be gross without much of it and i do believe they've succeeded

>>6850776
here's your reply.

>>6850780
you've added a period into the equation and i'm not sure i'm prepared

>>6850784
heres you're reply,

>>6850687
>write a character
>add a vagina
>include some gender-specific problems as specified by the setting

>>6850687
make her retarded

>>6850687
Write a character that is driven by emotions instead of logic.

Simple. Write a guy, then give him a pair of tits.

>>6850687
Same way you would write any good character.

>>6850785
i'm feeling things i've never felt before
>>6850788
anon doesn't realize there's a dearth of representation of the mentally impaired in literature and he's a sjw now

>>6850786
Kind of this. Perhaps more complex than that, but it all depends on the skill of the writer.
I recommend knowing some women, I really do.

>>6850800
But then you'd end up with 4chin-tyke characters. I'm not sure you understand OP's question.

>>6850687
just write about your mum but imagine she never had kids

>>6850687
Eat lots of pussy cuz you are what you eat.

>>6850810
That's not funny, there are real writers who do this.

>write a male
>turn the pronouns into female specific ones
>change name
>????
>profit
Why do people have problems with this?

Why are women more able to write men than men are to write women?

>>6852121
>Posts a tranime
Subtle.
>>6852148
It's just a tendency. You can get good at it too.

>>6852148
Because western culture has way more works with men in them, so they experience our viewpoint all the time.

>>6850687
Stop being a weenie

Have her overcome the societal limitations placed upon her by the evil white man.

bonus points if she's chunky, and dishes out quips left and right

extra bonus points if you make her the voice of reason surrounded by her illogical male counterparts

>>6850687
Make a Lancashire washerwomen, and take her on an adventure beyond the known world, many laughs and insightful dialogue to be taken from that.

write a man and change pronouns after.

literally the only way. Then laugh when people say "wow when you write women, you write REEL PEPLE"

Just think of a man, then remove reason and accountability.

>>6850800
>le ebin logikk meymey *tipping indensifisss*

Rational Actors are a myth.

>>6852505
i was waiting for this

Read this book to see how it's done. I bet you faggots have never read this.

>>6852505
So basically write her as a black man.

I think the character's personality and history are more important aspects. Sex and gender are just minor details that should have little to no bearing on a character's actions.

>>6852557
>that recommendation quote

just fuck my shit up tbh

>>6852575
I didn't see it at first. Jaden does these now?

>>6852557
>you faggots
>you
>faggots

Write a male character, make it irrational, change it's name to a female name, and you've done.

Not joking, not even misogynist.

>>6852596
This.

Male character
>ARGH! MY PRINCIPLES AND GOALS CONFLICT WITH THE VICISSITUDES OF REALITY! THERE IS PATHOS IN THIS STRUGGLE!

Female character
>I'M SAD :( NOW I'M HAPPY :) ISN'T THAT INTERESTING? ALL ELEMENTS OF THIS NARRATIVE SHOULD BE SLAVES TO MY MERCURIAL EMOTIONAL STATE :P THAT WAY IT WILL HAVE NO SUBSTANCE OR FIRM GROUND, JUST LIKE THE SWIRLING MAELSTROM OF INSANITY THAT IS MY MIND =^D

Read Portrait of a Lady, diregard cretins in this thread.

Follow up with this. I bet you faggots never read this either.

>>6852569
>tfw you try to think of arguments against sexuality being an important aspect of identity just to piss off fags in the future but you can't come up with anything solid
Your dumb.

Imagine a man and take away reason and accountability.

>>6852596
>>6852640
Your posts just ooze neckbeardism, terrible social skills and a feeling that the universe is just soooh unfayur to us :''''(((((((( .

>>6852719
mad roastie detected, stay salty being unable to coope with a inherently male reason exquisitely superior to womemes feelings

>>6852684

tbh why would i want to read this? i'm no virgin but it just makes me have to swallow what i already know about modern college youths engaging in disgusting behavior. there's nothing interesting in a bag of cliches

>smart girl from small town pressured into sex from jock

>gets dumped after losing virginity

>another jock becomes an intellect after almost losing spot on basketball team

>they start dating

>main jock who was jerk gets life ruined and humiliated cuz take that XDD girls rule! bad guys lose in the end

>girl feels comfortable with her place in society with constant dickings from her new nice athletic smart sensitive boyfriend

tbh it disgusts me cause it's too close to reality. i'm not even saying the prose is shit or the writing style just the content, could care less/10

*tips fedora to everyone in this thread*

Think with feeling and faith instead of logic and faith.

>>6850687
Talk to some females

>>6850889
yeah, i can only think of Faulkner, I wish there were more

>>6850687
Characters write themselves.

>>6852565
top kek tbh

>>6850687
by not focusing on how to write a good female character, and instead focusing on how to write a good character who happens to be female

either that or base them off of actual females you know

>>6850687
Are you trying to explore something about femininity or gender? If not, they don't have to be all that different from male characters.

Ignore the whole "just write a man with a feminine name" bullshit. Read the classics and you will realize that women and men are written differently. If such affirmation were true, you could switch Odysseus and Penelope's names and The Odyssey still would be the same work.

Think of a man, and take away reason and accountability.

>>6854903

>>6850687
tuck it in

>muh so jiny

>>6852731
You fucking pleb. The frat boy didn't lose. Don't you realize if he had gone to work for p&p Patrick Bateman would have killed him?

Holy shit you are 10/10 pleb

>>6854922
I'm glad someone got that.

>>6854903
read the fucking thread you chinless twat

>>6856017
Think of a man, and take away reason and accountability

>>6850687
>How do I write a good female character that someone isn't going to hate and hate me for writing?
You can't. Be thoughtful as you would about any character you write, but someone is going to hate you for it regardless.

>>6853398
>mfw I think with feeling and faith and I'm a man

>>6850687
this:
>>6850689

>>6852557
isn't this about Patrick Bateman's secretary or something?

What's wrong with writing a dude then changing pronouns and name? Oedipa Maas isn't too different from Profane or Slothrop, she just has less sex

>>6850687
That said, if you consider Casca a good character, don't write.

>confining your characters with gender
top fucking kek

>>6857310
Why?

>>6858125
>Think of a man, and take away reason and accountability

>>6857313
this

you should be writing your characters in regards to their race tbh

>>6857308
Oedipa is in her head a lot more and generally a more womanlike character... She is far less sure of herself and decisions than Profane or Slothrop, even when he's beginning to lose hope and his mind.

>>6850687
Think of a man, and take away reason and accountability.

>>6858172
>>6858773
Second poster here.
Didn't read the thread.

>>6857302
Alison Poole is one of Bateman's rape victims who also appears as victor's girlfriend in Glamorama

>>6852731
Tom Wolfe is basically required reading. If you don't read this and rules of attraction you are hopeless

Rationalize everything so none of it is your responsibility ever.

Write a man, change the pronouns, make other characters treat her as if she were a woman.

One my phone so ill have to be brief.

Ignore everyone saying just to write a man with a vj unless you want to settle for acceptable but lazy (assuminf you're a man, no one can blame you for writing with masculine presumptions.) A character written this way could be both good and female, but they wont be a good female.

Men and women are different, they think different. Men are like spikes, or penises if that amuses you, thrusting through the world with focused will and efficatious momentum. Women arent like that, as others in this thread have said, they dont have equal ambition or direction. But lacking these things means they have better attunement to their envirnment, the people and things around them. They notice lots of small things men dont due to being too mentally specialized to whatever is their current task-at-hand. Their awareness of these small things lets then tweak them to "set the stage" in whatever way they want, provided the envirnment is somewhat stable. If i get home and someones asked ill try and elaborate on what i mean by that.

Furthermore, i think it is wrong to just say "women are more emotional than men". Men run one or two mental "programs" at once, as necissary for their current task or disposition, and can compartmentalize emotions from other parts of their life from effecting that zone or even push emotions into a not currently running "program" thay will resurface later. Women just run all their programs at once, so if something makes them emotional it just spills over to every part of them which is really annoying in the shortterm or if there is a task at hand or whatever but on the plus side means they embrace the emotion with all parts of them till it sorts itself out, while men will occassional cause some seriously dangerous glitches with their emotional compartmentalization that can let one emotion run their life or make them go numb.

Pinecone managed to do it, why can't you?

>>6859677
honestly some top-notch advice, especially for someone who has to ask this question

>>6860448
is your Masters in BS or do you actually have a BS?

Think of a man, then take away reason and accountability.

>>6850687
You write a character and give them a vagina and a pair of breasts.

>>6850752
Testosterone has built and destroyed everything that has ever existed. Without testosterone, there would been no history. Spare me your above-it-all bitchy bullshit.

>>6850889
here's your reply

>>6860777
fuak check those sweet numbers if you want to lose your reason and accountability

>>6856017
Think of a man, and take away reason and accountability

>>6860755
But feminists hate that.

I would say females are level headed and pragmatic or histrionic and hedonistic.

They're not prone to principled self-reflection, navel gazing or philosophizing at all, so if they accept a belief system, they execute it completely mechanically and efficiently.

>>6850687
Go talk to actual women and learn how other people think for once

> all these posts recommending writing "genderless" characters

all the best, most distinctly female characters in literature could not be renamed and repronouned to be men - Oedipa Maas, for example, is an extremely feminine character that avoids cliches and stereotypes and has her own fleshed out personality. Honestly, she's what I aspire to with all the female characters I write. Read more good books with female protagonists.

>>6860448

if this is the "brief" version, I'd love to see you do a more in depth analysis. Everything you said is spot on. Could I give you my email or something?

>>6860787
>females
>level headed and pragmatic
I wish I was on my phone so I could post silly reaction images

write a man, then make him twice as dumb and have him sleep with other men and complain a lot.

congrats you have a woman.

>>6860838
Think of a governess or a nun.

>tfw I just wrote a version of my mom, focused on her weird habits and sayings
>people think I'm excellent at writing women

Write a male character but use "she" and "her".

Slam Dunk.

>>6860878
Writing what you know will generally be better than making shit up

>>6860909
but making shit up is fun

>>6860824
Sure, if this thread is still around tomorrow. I'd enjoy typing it all out, helps give the thoughts form.

>>6850810
Bonus points if any sjw tries to call you on this and you just remind them that not everyone conforms to a gender binary.

>>6852557
this is one of my favorite books

There's a quote in a movie, I can't remember which one but it goes something like think of a man but take away reason and accountability.

>>6862148
youre like fifth in the thread to say this you lazy fuck

>>6850687

I don't think about genders when I write characters. I mean, I only write about interesting and fun people, so all sense of realism is lost straight from the get-go.

>>6854333
Nope, it would Penelopyssey

>>6850687
>writing a female character = writing a male character but give her a woman's name.
I'm dead serious it's that easy to write a decent female character.

>>6864724
people keep saying this but it's only clueless men and male pandering women. women are completely different to men in the sense that they're better.

>>6864774

>>6852684


I tried to read it. Left it a bit after the middle. I was expecting it to get better, but it never, ever did. It's a mediocre book. I couldn't believe a book like that was written by one of the most higly regarded north-american writers.

It's so bad.

if you ever write a scene where a woman is arguing make her ignore all principles of debate and assertions and just attack her opponents character,make her call him an ugly fat virgin or else attack his other failing rather than address his ideas.

>>6864856

ITT: butthurt dudes

>>6864797
Pretty sure it's not bait. Women ARE better than men, on average at least.

>tfw being an actual convicted rapist

Should I write a book with a female protagonist?

>>6865004
Go ahead.
Mostly classic Disney stories are from convicted pedophiles, molesters, or both.

Don't shoehorn a romantic subplot

>>6864856
lel

big tits and a fat ol ass

>>6850720
Depends on where you're coming from. Each society has a "default person." For most of US, its white male. For japan, its "japanese man." For some remote matriachy society, its "generic female."

>>6865471
It's like adding a gun and not shooting it.

>>6860448
Elaboration would be appreicated m8

You're onto something and I want to hear more. :)

>>6865545
Name one example of a romantic subplot that didn't feel forced beyond all belief.

>>6865644
Dare I say it?

I'm saying it.

Hunger Games Katniss and her love triangle.

Bring on the image macros to insult me, it's a published work, it's fair game.

>>6865671
Anon, you are entitled to that opinion. I never read or watched 'The Hunger Games' so I feel it is unfair to judge, no matter what the other anons say.

>>6850687
Whatever Jack Nicolson said in As Good As it Gets

>>6865722

>>6850776

Why does her face unnerve me so?

>>6866218
no eyebrows

>>6864999
Yeah, better at sucking dick.

>>6850736
>"Imbéciles"
Imbécil, el plural no tiene tílde.

>>6864856
Who is this dangler wrangler?

>>6864830
What do you mean? Ift might drag a bit in the mid when he's introducing new characters, but it definitely is a powerhouse of a novel. I think the most valid complaint is that the ending wasn't great.

>>6850687

Self loathing

>>6864774
>>6864999
Think of a man, and take away reason and accountability

More serious advice: read up a bit on contemporary feminism and feminist critiques of contemporary lowbrow literature.

e.g. this stuff:
http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emotional-Labor

This will help you understand how women are seen in society. And it will enable you to explicitly communicate members of society push women to act in certain roles. For example, little stuff like 'women = nurturers -> it's the responsibility of women in the office to make the coffee and tidy up, while the men get the plum assignments'

Or how in western society, a default expectation is that a woman's role is to be sexually available for powerful men. (Following a maiden mother crone trajectory). With the consequences that women who aren't sexually attractive are basically invisible, or how men react when their role assumptions and sexual advances are challenged.

Also, develop your antennae for when people express contempt for women. Contempt displays, including the smallest, are a useful way to unpack society.

This doesn't mean you need to show men being sexist as fuck, but ... it's like understanding a bit about the black experience in order to write a story about a black cop from London walking down a street in Alabama.

>>6866650
>With the consequences that women who aren't sexually attractive are basically invisible
>things people actually study in university
pillar of great insights from critical theory, m8

>>6866650
>>6866650

Following up, try writing 2 women in a scene, as opposed to one token woman/minority/etc. This gives you a chance to develop them beyond generic scold / slut / sex reward for brave male protagonist / mom / hard-ass 1D fighter chick.

Think, not like the one woman in Original Star Trek, Star Wars, Galaxy Guardian, etc.

As an analogy, consider the case where a single black guy is playing foolish minstrel-show black guy, or contemporary hypersexualized black guy. Which are stereotypes, and the writer is sucked into perpetuating those stereotypes. However, if the writer instead did a 180 and had a genius black guy in minstrel times or a dry-witted classically educated guy in an 70s era show it's violating a norm, but reinforcing the norm by being absurd.

Having 2 minority characters is a way of hopping out of that trap.

Also, read about stuff including and beyond the Bechdel test.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

Also, as a way of creating characters, pick people around you, and flip the gender. e.g. Abraham Lincoln as your female starfighter mechanic, working with Abraham Lincoln as first mate.

Just make all your characters Abraham Lincoln.

>>6852037
Impersonate a woman for years in a Thai massage imageboard surely gives you credit bro

>>6865644
The doctor and Mrs Gould in Nostromo

Think of a man, then take away reason and accountability.

>>6852121
Ryukishi really likes to make a lot of female characters.

The only three things I can think of are,

A) Be a woman
B) Surround yourself with women
C) Be in an intimate relationship with a woman and have conversations with her.

I seriously hope that none of you guys are past your early twenties because this thread just reeks of terminal autism.

>>6850687
Read some novels popular with women.

Look for which characters they like the most.

Pick the characteristics of those characters and add to yours.

Done.

Or you can read more on gender.

You can write a male character in a female body and you would still be writing a female character. What matters is what kind of female you want, since each woman is different from the other depending on how connect to their gender roles they are.

>>6852505
was expecting this to be the first reply (w 20 quotes) tbh

>>6850687
Honestly if you're an adult and you still can't empathize with women, just don't write a book

>>6860448
these are the lamest sitcom-tier stereotypes. good for surface, impressions, maybe. most of that is just what sort of front people are expected to put on (and they do/don't to various degrees, when convenient)

>>6852640
This

There was a movie, I think it starred Nicholas Cage or someone but it had a funny quote about this, something like "think of a man, but take away reason and accountability"

>>6871468
close but it was actually a book by nicholas sparks, called "as acceptable as things will ever be"

>>6865530
>matriarchy society
haha yeah
you've been reading too much fiction

Think of a man, but take away reason and accounting. -- Jack Nicholson in "As Good As It Gets"

>>6850689
>>6857300

Actually, I don't think this is good advice. I find people with emic perspective take detail for granted compared to an etic analysis.

>>6852640
actually yeah, this. but do it without insulting sarcasm the sex or being too oblique. if it's genuine, it doesn't matter how stupid the character acts

>>6850687
translate suffering into something unique

>>6872086
that more depends if they are comfortable talking about their culture; maybe your description includes a lot of people who say 'oh i don't know, i just feel that way / do that thing' but try a richer culture that takes pride in sharing their differences with outsiders and you'll see detail (as well as blunt defensiveness) out the wazoo

Make them real people, just like the men.

Seriously, that's it. Press upon them the burdens of their gender when and if necessary, but otherwise just put yourself in their shoes to imagine what they might say or act like. And talk to females more often. This is beneficial for multiple reasons, and might get you friends and lovers while you're at it.

>>6852640
this tbh

Men are dominant and women submissive. Supposedly. So when writing from the woman's perspective, try to think how a woman might think in most situations. If a guy is unable to flirt back with her or make a move, feel her frustration and move her towards a move herself. When a guy can't make the right decision, or if the decision is on the woman but everyone is sneering about it or patronizing her, make her take control in an unexpected way or manipulate others with her feminine wiles. Like most things, it should have mendacity. A disconnect in what is seen and/or expected and what actually is true. This is a fine element of gender roles today, in a world where the definitions between male and female are so blurred.

>>6850687
The important thing is that she will merely be an auxiliary character, not the protagonist (At least I hope, since it has been proven that all genders subconsciously prefer male protagonists)

But some tips:
-western women are all sluts at heart on the same par as men, but they are repressed in their sexuality because society condemns a promiscuous female as crazy. So, their main motivation is to fit in and submit to society.

Most women cannot are inanely stupid, motivated mostly by approval of their peers. Blame society for raising them that their primary role is to be attractive to a man.

All women suffer from crippling insecurities. Just look at Instagram, they'd wither and die without constant approval from a throng of followers. Even if they are physically flawless, they are insecure about being desires only for their beauty. These ones are easy to exploit for this and flash bang, but anyways, just know these and you will a realistic female character.
Their lives revolve around approval from men or a man, and without thus

>>6865530
lol. you have truly opened my mind anon

>>6850687
nah

>>6850687
Just the way you would write a good male character.

>>6872381
Fucking thank you

>>6866650
So women are entitled whiners with no perspective who complain about things like having to make coffee?

Got it.

>>6872186
>burdens of their gender
>women

>someone asks a genuine question
>millennial "intellectuals" rush to shut the discussion down
>"check your privileges, shirlords"
>yfw, Alan bloom was right.
>yfw, expect civilization to collapse soon, as this was the next part of his prediction

http://www.amazon.com/The-State-American-Mind-Anti-Intellectualism/dp/1599474581

Google confirmation bias as well.

>>6866282
>tílde
buen intento
>>6866218
she is a pretty lady, there is no need for such cruelty

>>6866238
>>6866218
>>6850776

>>6865671
I feel it worked. Enough lives were on the line and the characters were unique enough and represented such separate roles for her that it was actually part of the plot and didn't feel angsty.

Since her relationship was such a big part of her image for the government to market there was actual stress on choosing, and the author wrote her internal struggle well.

>>6875024
Everything you consider a privilege is, in many instances, a burden.

>>6872351
>Most women cannot are inanely stupid, motivated mostly by approval of their peers
>All women suffer from crippling insecurities. Just look at Instagram, they'd wither and die without constant approval from a throng of followers
>People unironically say this shit like it doesn't apply to all humans

Think of a man, but take away reason and accountability.

make her a hacker so guys will read it
make her bisexual so guys will fap to it

>>6854238
King likes writing about retards a lot, but he's hardly /lit/.

>>6865004
Write a book about a female serial rapist. I'd read that shit. I've been working on a story on and off about a lady in her early 20s who likes to molest little boys and gets away with it because 'women can't be sex predators'.

>>6876132
I also saw that movie.

>>6877098
Worked for Dragon Tattoo.

>>6877098
>make her a tranny so the guys will fap to her
ftfy

>>6850687
Make her less direct, more vulnerable, and more moody.

>>6878094

sounds like Tampa

watching anime to get ideas

>>6850687
>>6850687
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8

write an character and give her some nice breasts

Have more conversations with women, pay more attention to women during said conversations, observe. Writing is a skill that can only be developed through observation and impersonation.

>>6878194
Thanks for the recommendation

>>6878194
>Tampa
I looked it up and it seems like it might be interesting. Maybe I'll look into it and see if it informs my own writing any.

start with the greeks
listen to itaots
get a buzzcut
SS + GOMAD

>>6878354
What if I'm a shut-in who can't leave his house and talking to people makes me nauseous and the only way I can meaningfully interact with people is through text?

>>6878484
Needs more oatz.

There's an old move from the 90s I think, something starring Nicholas Cage or someone, but it has a quote that's funny about this, it's something like "Think of a man, then take away reason and accountability."

>>6878603
So to write female character as if she were a black man.

Ctrl-f "reason and accountability"
16 results

>>6850687
but thats subjective OP
it's like asking how to write a good male character or a good asian character.
I wish this subject didn't always pop up on /lit/, but I guess it'll stay, given the large shitshorm it always causes

>>6878499

Then write fan-fic :)

>>6878677
huh

I'm getting 17 results

>>6850687
define "good female character" irl?
Hlaðgerðr? Livia? Empress Wu? Hypatia? Mata Hari? Roxelana? Catherine the Great? Theodora? Thaïs? Aspasia? Mata Hari? Inessa Armand? Lou Salome? Salome? Penthesilea? Lady Godiva? Cleopatra? Lady Macbeth? Desdemona? Tamora? Volumnia? Lavinia? Jayne Eyre? Hermione? Katniss? Cersei? Daeneris? Melisandre? Arya? Eowyn? Mulan? Arkadina? Nina? Filippovna? Marmeladova? Grushenka? Gretchen? The Portuguese Nun? Justine? Juliette? Casca? Farnese? Charlotte?

Like unicorns or North Dakota, they don't exist.

>>6852121
This.
Not even misogynistic, but it's the truth, female personalities are boring.

>>6850687
Write a male character then take away reason and accountability

>>6875878
You are either a projecting woman, or a complete faggot.

>>6850687
Have her be rapped in the first chapter. Then she can either go one a murderous rampage or be unhappy about it and hero herself.

Wow. Such strong portrait. Much woman.

>>6850784
>that pic
Who is to pay for this?