/lit/ - Literature

was pretty horrible when i read it. at least tcol had some payoff.

>>6846559
Pretty pleb opinion. It's regarded as one of the best first novels and Pynchon basically disowned TCoL49.

That being said, it's Mason & Dixon

/thread

>>6846564
>appealing to authority because you're too much of a retard to form your own opinion and committing intentional fallacy
Pretty /lit/ opinion.

>>6846559
What a terribly stupid thing to say.

>>6846564
Fuck you TCoL is incredible I don't give a shit what Pynchon allegedly disowns

>>6846629
What a terribly fascinating post.

I think it's quite silly and a little trying to deny Gravity's Rainbow as Pynchon's magnum opus, though I understand the need to be contrarian around here, as well as just how fantastic of a novel V. is. Still, it doesn't even come close to Gravity's Rainbow.

>>6846537
currently on M&D
feels like the most pynchonesque novel
however most would agree that its GR

I'll tell you after I've read them all. I have 4 left.

>>6846593
Appealing to the author is a fallacy?

Get the fuck out

>>6846537
anywhere I can read V online? The copy I bought was in German.

I can't read German.

I've only read V and Lot 49. I definitely enjoyed Lot 49 more, but V is still fantastic.

>>6846537
Gravity's Rainbow, it just is.

But V. is really fucking good, probably pinecone's most treasured baby

What makes Gravitys Rainbow so great? It seemed lolsorandom to me. Why is it one of the best novels of the 20th centuary

>>6846746
V. is more polished and more coherent, M&D is just plain expert mode Pynchon. Seems to me many people are hanging onto GR as his best more because of its wild classic status and historical context than merit as a single work.

M&D is the true choice.

Its pynchon but with characters you actually care about. What could be better.

>>6846564

>Pinecone disowning TCoL49

Source on this? About 3/4 way through now and it's my first Pynchy work I've read.

Seems good to me, a bit dryer than I hoped (particularly the middle) but hardly abandonment material?

>>6847062
I don't know about his reasons but it's really missing something, even though it has its moments.
I think he's just not very good at shortform works.

>>6847062
>>6847062
>>Pinecone disowning TCoL49
That is a bit of a strong term


He talks about it in the forward slow learner , he at lest thinks Clo49 is his weakest work

>>6847062
You can sorta tell he was just fucking around when he wrote it. It's very minimal effort compared to his other early stuff and it shows.

Can someone post that "where to start with Pinecone" image?

>>6846789
why did you buy it then?

>>6847062
>>6847084
This is what I'm referencing. He addresses it in the preface to Slow Learner.

Easily tcol49

All the rest are just too fucking long, who's got the time for that shit

>>6847210
The patrician has spoken

>>6847210

Really?

Like IJ long?

>>6847234
No. He's just a pleb who can't read anything over a 100 pages or so.

>>6846564

I agree. I prefer Gravity's Rainbow, but I think Mason and Dixon is his best.

>>6847199

I was in a rush and the cover didn't have any german words on it

No need to be contrarian, it's clearly Gravity's Rainbow.

>>6846789
>>6849503
kek

You can find it everywhere but often dirty versions, here's a proper one.
http://www56.zippyshare.com/v/H8qDjlDQ/file.html
even refrained from uploading the french version instead

>>6846706
No he really does read the introduction to slow learner. That said I like it still. Current favorite is GR then V. but I haven't read more than part 1 of M&D, and none of Against the Day or Bleeding Edge yet.

Crying is definitely my favorite, I don't think I'm judge to say what's best. I've read that, V, GR, and IV.

>>6847076
I think he does it spectacularly well, he has a very strong defined central idea and every single chapter contributes to it.

Reading GR right norm on episode 8 or something. It's funny so far but does the story pick up soon?

>>6849633
>pynch
>story

mate...

>>6846537
Mason & Dixon. Easily.

>>6846760

How can a pynchon novel be "pynchonesque"?

>>6849806
By having been written by a pynchonesque Pynchon in a pynchonesque mood

*What do I feel like doing today Tommy? You're right, I do feel precisely in the mood to write something I would write, in my own style nonetheless, what a brilliant idea. Thanks Tommy*

>tfw think it's Inherent Vice

The thing was funny as fuck and satisfying to read. V. was boring (especially the history stuff). TCoL49 was good too

>>6849923
It was shit though dude. It was just formula for formula's sake. It was almost like someone else tried to write a pynchon novel but instead of understanding the nuances that make up pynchon he thought he'd just throw in conspiracy and wacky stuff and call it a day. It's almost self-parody.

>>6846706
this

V. sucked
COL49 was great

>>6847062

Pynchon supposedly told a friend that the novel was written "in haste, for money". I mean it's clearly an outlier just because it's so short and set in the same time period in which it was published. Usually Pynchon's books are long, exhaustively researched, and take place throughout history. Personally I think Pynchon is wrong about it, I really love that book and I wish he would right more short novels.

>>6850036

I agree with this sentiment, and there are parts of IV that are pretty silly, but it's still an extremely well written book

"She came along the alley and up the back steps the way she always used to"

is a masterful opening line, better than "a screaming comes across the sky" imo

>>6850061
>>6850050
>>6846706
this

who cares if it was a quick cash grab, it's great anyways. It's also the most coherent novel, jumping only between 2 time periods and not 20, and a great way to get into pynchon really.

Hell, Kafka wrote some of his stories overnight.

>>6850067
Really? It seems like the former is an extremely average introduction that doesn't have any immediate effect, where GR's opening sentence is instantly gripping and has a unique feel to it, perfectly introducing the frantic weirdness of the novel.

They all are shit memes. Why there so many dfw and pynchon shills?

>>6849923
Comfiest book I ever read and then the ending line is absolutely heartbreaking.

GR > V. > Mason & Dixon / Against The Day > The Crying of Lot 49 / Vineland > Inherent Vice / Bleeding Edge > Slow Learner

but they're all good

I'm reading it right now. I'm like 40 pages in and I don't think I'm feeling it.

>>6850705

I thought Bleeding Edge was better than IV and TCOL49.

>>6846789
kekking
good going anon

>>6849639
This is my first book by him so I have no idea what I'm getting into.

Also just read Blood Meridian/The Road back to back so going from McCarthy to Pynchon has fucked my head.

For me it's still Gravity's Rainbow, though V. is a fairly close second.

Only plebs rank Lot 49 among his best.

>>6850871

you're also right
they're all pretty interchangeable in quality, aka good

>>6851143

I think Bleeding Edge only reads well if you know the history of the development of tech and the internet, else all of the reference are lost, and that makes up like 15% of the book.

>>6851162

I feel like it's written with a wink to techies and a comfortable approach to the casual (uninformed) reader

>>6850070
Wait, wait, wait? What two time periods? Do you mean the play, or did l forget something?

>>6847084
he also says he knocked it out purely to make cash

>>6846537
im about 300 pages in and im confused.
can anyone that actually appreciates the book tell me what the fuck is going on

>>6853764
Is that the Stencil chapter? If so just re-read the chapter title, it's the only thing that explicitly tells you what's going on in there.

>>6846593

>muh own opinion

>muh capitalist ideology

>>6853772
i understand the stuff with the whole sick crew, but stencil stuff confuses me. im not sure who goldolphin is or how he fits in( wasnt he a pilot that the surgen knew?), or how mondaugen is related to anything. was kurt dreaming all that war shit during the siege? and what was the conflict exactly? i missed the whole context for the bondels and all that

son & xon is best but with enough arm twisting someone could convince me it's gravity's rainbow. both are great.

>>6853811
He's the pilot's dad
The antarctic explorer guy
Both Godolphins are in the Florence chapter, along with a florist named Gadrulfi. A lot of the Italian bros call both Godolphins Gadrulfi, though.
I think the weird dream stuff was interspersed with Foppl's story of the first Bondel uprising in 1904, when he killed tons of Africans with von Trotha.

>>6853811
this will give you some context both for V. and Gravity's Rainbow:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

>>6853847
>>6853854
thanks.

>>6849885
no meat touching ma'am

>>6847008
did you actually read it?

>>6846789
Underrated post

I'm 500 pages in GR and have no fucking clue what is going on.

Is all this masochist orgy shit real or in characters heads? What is the plot even? What is Slothrop after? Is his erection magic or not? Did they just throw pies at a plane or was that fake too? And who the fuck are all these characters with all these names?

Are you supposed to be confused reading this? Is that the "genius" of it? Cause if so I am feeling pretty dumb reading this thing. I just dont get it.

>>6854530
Part of it is yes supposed to be confusing but also a lot makes sense eventually if not shortly after. Thing is later hints aren't much use if you've forgotten the details they provide clarification for, so you may need to take notes to remember the characters and their respective roles.

>>6854530
You sound pretty dumb, actually. And no, you're not supposed to be that confused by it.

>>6854530
Slothrop isn't real

I am still in the middle of reading his work,
and I refuse to answer until I have read all the literature which is available to me by him in my local bookstore.

Whats the point of writing a book the majority of English language speakers wont even understand?

>>6854712
Making fun of them
Sometimes it takes 200 pages, sometimes 1000. You never know. But the goal is always the same.

>>6854712
so that people who do read it can gain a sense of superiority

>>6854712
People worships names

Get your name said with a good word and people will love anything you do, be it badly filmed sex videos or incoherent sleep-thinking trying to pass as literature

>>6846537
Catcher in the Rye lol

>>6850505

I feel like IV's opening line gives us so much information already: that somebody has come to Doc's house, that it's a woman, that she used to come to his house often, and that she's possibly trying to arrive unnoticed

Not that 'a screaming comes across the sky' is bad or anything, it sets the tone for the novel perfectly, but it doesn't neccesarilly give us a lot of information.

>>6855918
If it gave information easily it wouldn't fit very well with the rest of the book, where information, especially about the plot, is vague and difficult to cone by.

What's the easiest Pynchon novel to read?
Ive heard they're all so complex and dense so I want to start off lightly

>>6853053
Yeah I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Courier's Tragedy. Even though it only takes up like 10 pages in the book, a lot of the present day stuff with Oedipa depends on the play.

>>6850828

it gets better, I felt the same way at first but pynchon is now my favorite author. If you really dont like it try the crying of lot 49 instead

What is Vheissu?

>>6856955
Inherent Vice is the easiest read of all the ones I've gotten to so far. The Crying of Lot 49 is always the go-to introduction to Pynchon in university courses so it's become the best starting point if you want to be up to speed when he's referenced or discussed. I'd recommend reading Lot 49 and then Inherent Vice back-to-back to get a sense of how Pynchon's changed from his debut to now.

I personally think Pynchon wrote Inherent Vice to redeem Lot 49 because he became so disatisfied with Lot 49 as he matured.

>>6857044
Lot 49 - concept/situational comedy
Inherent Vice - human comedy

>>6849556
thank you


I don't think I would have been so merciful, had our roles been reversed

>>6854726
Supersilly-us