/lit/ - Literature

>>6819284

Marketing gimmick, that's what.

He got redpilled

capote's ghost wrote it

>>6819284
He's getting character depth but idiot libshits can't handle that

>>6819284
I haven't read it. How racist is Atticus?

Is it exaggerated and he just thinks that sharing a town with a lot of black people leads to trouble or is he going full Zimmerman mode and talking about how he wishes he could put the dindu's in their place?

It's hard to imagine a drastic change between two books.

>>6819702
KKK racist

>>6819320
when did she write it?
or did someone write it 3 years back and they put her name on it?

>>6819284

I'm reading it for a book club I'm leading (tried to get them to read something good like Under the Volcano or Portrait of the Artist, I tried really hard to pick things accessible and good) so I'll be back in a day with a long verdict about it.

>>6819761
please do Mr. book club leader, i can't wait for your long, insightful verdict into this most important matter.

>>6819284
Tumblr pls go

He just went down the path most liberals do after spending any amount of time with blacks.

Feels sorry for them, makes excuses, even defends them
20 years of interacting with blacks
Ends up hating them, comes to realize they are their own worst enemies, wants to literally shoah them.

>>6819702
>How racist is Atticus?
The book is literally about him killing black people for sport.

>>6819284
>what the fuck happened to Atticus
I hate to say it, but he's actually going to sound more like a real human being.

Personally, I don't see what the hubbub is all about. In TKAM, he's basically just a metaphor for being fucking awesome all the time. He's a fine character, but he's completely one dimensional. He's just the embodiment of everything good and noble and just. The problem is that it's completely unrealistic.

Tom Robinson be cry.

Never read either of these books, brief synopsis pl0x

>>6820284
have people read it actually.. how did you guys get copies

>>6820309
it was just uploaded to bibliotik 30 mins ago if anyone is interested

>>6820317
what? for real?

fuck I want bibliotik

>>6819760
She wrote it before To Kill a Mockingbird, that anon is stupid

any anon care to share?

here ya go mates https://d.maxfile.ro/iplxplujyc.azw3

I warned you people the second that this novel was announced that something like this may happen. I Told you so.

>>6820450
holy fucking shit
>LEGIT

>>6820464
enjoy m8

>>6819780
he was racist the whole time but scout was too naive to notice

>>6820450
Tfw not downloading on mobile

Basically Harper Lee trolled the fuck out of everyone, for 55 years everyone thought Atticus was some shining hero, and now morons have to contend with the fact he can be both a good person and want to defend his race

>>6822062
>defend his race
you don't have to be anti-black or a hateful bigot to "defend your race"

>>6822091
If you're White you do, tbh.

>>6819982

Awesome, wish that happened more often.

>>6822091
That's a point of view

>>6822097
You're a point of view.

>>6822112
For you

Why are we talking so much about this YA-tier hack trash?

>>6822156
Because muh media play muh atticus muh highschool book

English teachers must be so fucked now, some smart ass student going "Hey Miss I heard Atticus was a big racist, what now?"

>>6822156
>implying you've read it
>implying TKAM is "YA-tier hack trash"
>implying you aren't a 15 y.o. edgelord

>>6822170
I did in High School. It's still boring and surface-level as fuck.

>Atticus wins the case in TKAM
>small victory that makes him feel like integration might someday work
>sees black and white relations through the 40's and 50's
>doesn't see anything changing and possibly getting worse
>loses what little hope he has
>begins to embrace segregation as a fact of life
>snowballs into full blown segregationalist which leads him to develop views of white superiority
>retards can't see that Atticus didn't magically become some asshole
>Atticus couldn't handle the harshness of the world and it made him harsh

This is my guess, at least.

>>6819699
It's complicated, he's considered an American Icon. Him being a racist in the second book is akin to Mr. Smith turning out to be a corrupt politician in the sequel to Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

>>6822396
I'd rather speculate on what made Mr. Smith the way he is rather than just fling shit about something I don't like.

>>6822396
Life's a bitch, that's what growing up is all about. Harper Lee does it again

>>6822417
Most people don't like the idea that characters can be flawed. They expect perfection.

>>6822193
but he lost the case

pretty clear now that capote did write TKAM

now harper lee in typical liberal feminist has decided to make him a racist because "muh white men"

>>6822475
Fuck, I haven't read it in so long.

Like since high school

>>6822486
She wrote this first and it was originally rejected. So what you're saying would actually imply that she had no talent and only achieved her fame because of Capote writing a book for her.

>>6822506
>So what you're saying would actually imply that she had no talent and only achieved her fame because of Capote writing a book for her.

that is exactly what i am implying

>>6819284
TKAM Atticus is the ideal for white people during the time it was written. Proof of a moral man doing good in the name of justice.

GSAW Atticus is the reality of a lot of white men of that time. In a changing world that they feel less and less in control of. The hate, the Klan, resentment of integration, all of it.

A lot can be said on if GSAW should even have been released. Harper Lee may have been coerced. People can hate the fact it was. But they shouldn't hate the differing views of Atticus.

Can someone give some proof that it's actually a sequel though? Because unless it references the events of TKAM, I am not buying it. I think they are separate literary universes. It's not the same Atticus past the name of the character. Going off the official narrative that GSAW was written first, I think the reason people think it's a sequel is due to 1) bad marketing, 2) where it fits on the timeline, and 3) lit critics eager to kill the character of Atticus. #3 is a bit political too. Liberal lit critics love attacking the "white savior complex" and this is a prime opportunity. Who is more of a white savior than Atticus? Taking him down a few pegs fits their agenda.

>>6822641
>Can someone give some proof that it's actually a sequel though?

Dumbest line on this entire board right now

>>6822665
Cite something from the text. That's all I ask. Because all the reviews I have read say the plot events referenced in the past regarding the rape trial are different and that GSAW was written before TKAM.

I find it much more likely the editors told Harper Lee her book was too gritty and that she needed to rework the characters. My bet is she was advised that turning Scout into a child instead of a jaded adult and making her father a good guy instead of a racist asshole made for a better story with a better message.

>>6822691
Did you even understand TKAM?

>>6822486
>if I shit on feminism, my baseless speculation will be accepted

>be me
>reading at my desk
>dad walks in
>"Hey big brains, I thought you said this new Harper Lee book took place after TKaM. It doesn't at all. You're wrong"
>me: "it was written before but it takes place after"
>literally sneers at me
>"what the fuck do you mean that it takes place after"
>tosses a copy of the Wall Street journal on my bed
>"try reading an article once in a while. Actually, I'll read it out loud"
>article talks about how Atticus underwent a transformation in the eyes of Lee, hence the shift from racist to savior
>he adheres to the word 'transformation'
>"lotta good those books are doing. Riddle me this smart guy (actually calls me smart guy) how can Atticus undergo a transformation to being a racist IF HE TRANSFORMS FROM A RACIST?"
>laughs at me
>Then spend 30 minutes explaining the article
>mfw this just happened

I'm staying at uni over the summer next time

>>6822705
I should know better than to expect more than a 1 sentence reply on /lit/.

What are you implying? TKAM Atticus defended Tom as best he could and is the moral standard throughout the book. Doesn't sound like the same bigoted man who was involved in another rape trial that ends in an acquittal based off the reviews I read.

>>6822691
The common story is that her editor said that the book was shit but the flashback sequence was cool so she should just write a book about childhood innocence and that became TKAM.

>>6822691
>My bet is she was advised that turning Scout into a child instead of a jaded adult and making her father a good guy instead of a racist asshole made for a better story with a better message.
This is exactly what happened. Go Set a Watchman is a rewrite of TKaM. Lee said as much, it isn't a secret. It is only a sequel in the sense that the timeline chronologically flows, to some extent. Anyone that says otherwise is probably braindead

>>6822739
>>6822743
I just keep seeing reviews and comments treating it as if it is a direct sequel that gives a perfect flow of events. I feel like some unfair judgement is being made on Atticus as a result as if to diminish the character's actions from TKAM.

>>6822734
Has your dad always been an asshole?

>>6822759
Yeah but so is everyone else's.

I thought this was funny though, I wonder if people everywhere are just fucking up and stumbling over articles on this book.

>>6822756
>I feel like some unfair judgement is being made on Atticus as a result as if to diminish the character's actions from TKAM.
It's absolutely unfair and im not even a fan of TKaM. People are acting as if some strange legacy is being ruined. The thing is a fucking rewrite. Oh wow, authors rewrite novels and use characters of the same name, big surprise. They're different books.

How people are confused by this, I'll never understand.

>Gee I wonder why a childs narration of events and her father is different from the adult reality, I guess it must just be an attempt to slander Atticus muh Attybaby could never be a complex man he a good boy dindu nutin just like my highschool teacher said

>>6822767
I'm sorry to break it to you but that level of fucking cunt is not the norm of father assholery.

I kinda forgot Lee was still alive. She is no Salinger, but she was never a typical American author when it came to publicity.

I was always amazed since, reading it in class, that this was her one book and she kinda just went on with her life in her little town.

I have to wonder if this was a less idealistic look at her family and hometown. Mockingbird was the hopeful, but still dark, fiarytale about the south. This book is maybe more warts and all.

Atticus was the ideal father, the Superman. And this sequel is more Watchmen, if I may lurch into a /co/ comparison. More Evanjellyoon than classic Gundam, to be /a/ or /m/.

Now I have not gotten it or read it yet.
I am too scared, /lit/.
Hold me?

>>6822778
That is exactly how I feel. Honestly, TKAM to me is just a book I was assigned to read three times in three different English classes. But it is pissing me off the way this whole thing is unraveling.

>>6822743
>Go Set a Watchman is a rewrite of TKaM
other way around

she wrote Go Set A Watchman first and then her publisher told her Scout should be a kid and out of that came To Kill A Mockingbird

and now some 50+ years after the fact, Lee or someone associated with her got the original story published; no idea if any more work was done on it in the interim

>>6822796
You're completely right, that's what I meant. My fault

>>6822792
I agree with you but please be aware of your surroundings and tone down the insufferable weebiness in the future.

Harper Lee didn't even write the original TKaM so it's no surprise she tries to make everyone hate its most popular character in GSaW.

I love the way losers are trying to say "Oh b-but this isn't a r-real sequel s-zhe wrote it first... atticus was g-good she was forced to publish *sniffs* MUH TKAM"

How does it feel to be so terribly wrong about everything?

>>6822825
>fails to make a point in contest to the opposition
>How does it feel to be so terribly wrong about everything?

I know it's b8 to keep the thread going or whatever, it's just bad.

>>6822835
You're in no position to call bait bad if you were taken in by it.

>>6822850
I find it's better to call bait out quickly so plebs don't stumble into it.

inb4 you did it again

>>6822796
>>6822825
it would be more accurate to say TKAM is a prequel to GSAW, since GSAW was written first (but was rejected and never published) and then Lee wrote TKAM because her publisher liked the flashbacks in GSAW

and it it makes sense that Scout sees her father Atticus as near perfect, since that's how a lot of children view their parents, and with an adult Scout in GSAW comes a more complex, conflicted, disillusioned view of her father that is more human than a near-flawless paragon of justice and morality

I want to FUCK Boo Radley's ASSHOLE

Is he in the new book?

calm down everyone,

At first glance Go set a watchmen hook is that atticus isn't someone you should idolize. It's a shock that will rake in readers. such controversy. If this book is well written, and fleshes out the reason for as to why atticus is a bigot, I could accept it, because atticus would be better grounded than the superman/peck version in TKAM. I doubt it though, harper lee exposes the old worst racist problem. TKAM had a terrible prose, it was just an intriguing story that had never been told before. I do like TKAM, I enjoyed reading it.

>>6822759
There are 12 fathers in my family, only one was that much of a cunt, and he is mentally ill, on the run and currently wanted by the police.

I hear they already have a movie version ready.

>>6822821
..and Sir Francis Bacon wrote Hamlet. Sure.
>>6822793
Heh. Speaking of Hamlet, same with happened with me. Thrice in as many classes over the years. Though i do like it. Not as much as.. uh.. The Scottish play.. but.. I enjoy country matters.
>>6822813
I apologize for mentioning Laotian puppet shows on a web zone created around Laotian puppet shows.

>>6819699

exactly.

If he is a racist, it makes him only a more noble character.

>>6823056
Shakespeare was a group effort, Bacon certainly was a participant though Queen Elizabeth (Athena the Spear Shaker) was behind it. John Dee was involved as well.

>>6823059
more proof they should've been called the Klu Kuck Klan

I love lib tears saying how they "won't accept this as canon" "it was just a first draft TKAM is the real version" "Atticus in GSAW isn't the same character"

Makes me kek heartily. Harper Lee obviously published TKAM with the intent on publishing GSAW later, just didn't because she's a frigid dried up old cunt

>>6823085

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here?

I'm saying it makes him a more noble character. To be a bigot and still stand up for the rights of those you dislike is a much more noble act than to stand up for the rights of the oppressed because you see it as an injustice.

To live in the 1930's and to not be a bigot is simply luck. It is simply having the right conditions to be able to see past the society in which you currently live in. It requires some amount of intelligence and self-awareness, but I don't believe you can pick someone out of the white US population in the 1930's and call them a bigot because of the fact that as a society, we have progressed past it. Believe it or not, if you were born in the 1910's, you'd probably be a racist!

In TKAM, we, as readers in a post-segregation world, imagine Atticus to be someone who is able to be uncannily progressive. Though It's never directly stated, we are not given insight into how he feels about race at all. It's insinuated that he is simply not racist, because of the stark contrast between him and the rest of the court/town.

Now we get a twist on the story. He hates black people and still believes in their rights.

That's beautiful to me. That's far more noble than being smart enough to see past the mistakes of his time. That's being cognizant of the potential mistakes of his time and acting accordingly, while simultaneously being wrong.

There's a profound message here that we can learn. It's a separation of pseudo-progressives and true progressives.

Modern/psuedo progressives are for the rights of minorities only when they garner enough public concern to change laws in their favor.

True progressives are for the rights of everyone, whether they're unpopular or not. Whether they hate the people or not.

Take, for example, Rand Paul and the gay marriage SCOTUS decisions. Everyone on reddit is appalled that Rand Paul "doesn't support gay marriage" and wants to get rid of marriage licenses. They paint him as a bigot.

In actuality, this is much like how this new book purportedly paints Atticus.

Rand is against gay marriage, but believes in their rights and others' rights. He wants to remove marriage licenses so that gays, interracial couples, polygamissts, and more can have equal rights within the law.

Atticus is against black rights, but believes they have a constitutional right to legal counsel and provides it as a noble public servant.

That is all that I am saying-- I think this book adds depth to Atticus. It makes him far more noble. He's not just lucky enough to be able to not be a racist, he's smart enough to be a racist and still act in a way that respects his obligations and assumes he might personally be wrong.

I think that's noble and beautiful.

>>6823214
it was just a bit of wordplay m8

>>6823015
Haven't seen him yet.

>>6823214
D-did you just write that all out,
because somebody said "Ku Kuck Klan"?

>>6823076
Some have claimed Dee's part was actually ghostwritten by an angel, or angelwritten by a ghost.

>>6819284
Harper wrote this one first. She always meant Atticus to turn out this way. First book was apparently a nostalgia fest preceeding scout's nightmare future with her brother dead and her dying father renouncing everything he stood for to support segregation

>>6823288
>renouncing everything he stood

*Everything she thought he stood for

>>6819284
The real message is that it's never too late to learn the truth.

>>6823294
exactly. That's the point. The deep rooted racism or whatever.

And i imagine the title is a play on "set a watchman so that racism doesn't happen again cuz it can happen to anyone and it festers deep down"

or something.

The thing that confounds me is that Harper cried while on set for the movie version of TKAM because she said peck reminded her of her father.

So there was some love there. But if its actually based on her real father, that means that that was more pain than love in that little moment. She's been hiding a lot for years id say

You stupid faggots saying that Atticus being perfect is no more just remember that you remember things from your childhood as better hence shitty nostalgia. This means Atticus was not perfect and never was, even in her childhood scout could recognise some flaws

>>6819702
Joins the kkk
Supports segregation
And ugenics

>>6823441
Sounds like it makes him an actual realistic Southern gent from the mid-20th century. The version of Atticus in Mockingbird always seemed way too idealised.

>>6823455
na bruh that nigga wuz tight

>>6823455
Yeah
He basically becomes Tom from the great gatsby
Talking about the white mans burden and auch

>>6823214
Fucking this.

People portrayed her as senile because they couldnt deal with the reality that she did this on purpose

>>6819284
Everyone holds prejudices

You think doctors in Baltimore and Chicago that have to work with gun shot victims every day actually like them?

>>6823544
The biggest long-game troll in history.

Her lawyer has started saying there might be a third book. I expect that one will have Scout turn into a drunken slut in the 1960s.

>>6822183
>surface-level
lol youre talking about literature dude this isnt /mu/

>>6823632
Mockingbird 2: Electric Boogaloo ft. ya home gurl Scout "lucious labia" Finch

>>6823214
I took comfort in this

>>6823679
I took comfort in this

>>6822813
>surprised that a namefag on an anonymous board is retarded

Just filter

>>6823076
Wow when did you invent the time machine anon?

>>6823920
When did you stop reading the news?

>>6823944
When news became a more reliable source of information than peer reviewed papers it seems

>>6823679
I can hear that funky slap bass playing in the background right now.

With regards to the 'alternate timeline' or whatever you want to call it, is it true that Atticus actually won the case of TKAM in GSAW?

>>6824443
Yes:

>Atticus took his career in his hands, made good use of a careless indictment, took his stand before a jury, and accomplished what was never before or afterwards done in Maycomb County: he won an acquittal for a colored boy on a rape charge. The chief witness for the prosecution was a white girl.

>Atticus had two weighty advantages: although the white girl was fourteen years of age the defendant was not indicted for statutory rape, therefore Atticus could and did prove consent. Consent was easier to prove than under normal conditions—the defendant had only one arm. The other was chopped off in a sawmill accident

As somebody who grew up admiring Atticus and actually began studying law as a result of this book I find it interesting how hostile people have been towards it.

From a character standpoint it's disappointing, but from a literary one it's fantastic. If anything it makes him more admirable. He stands up for human rights even if he doesn't agree with them. He respects individual freedoms even if he doesn't agree with them. No lawyer wants to defend a man guilty of murder but they do because the defendant is entitled to a fair trial. The same goes for Atticus and his case. He might not like the man he's defending for whatever reason but he defends him because it's what's right.

What people seem to be ignoring is how this was something she wrote and initially wanted published. This book, at one point in her life, was her passion and it was the story she wanted to share. Yeah, it pisses all over the fairytale fantasy of a young child, which I'm sure is how it is for a lot of people, but it's a cold hard slap across the face from reality.

EPUB WHEN

reading this book as an independent manuscript, as opposed to a proper sequel, really changes the experience. it's like listening to hours of demo/alternate takes of an iconic album, in that you see flashes of greatness, but really it's about seeing the stages before what you love, nobody's favorite song is a demo of a Beatles song recorded on a toaster quality mic, with 13 minutes of silence/tuning/dialogue. it does give interesting connotations to TKAM, like Atticus not liking the man he defends but doing it because he believes it is right, or scouts dissilussionment and unreliability as a narrator. I'm about half way through and it's an interesting read so far.

my only problem is it's being marketed as a sequel and "HER SECOND NOVEL" instead of a lost first draft. but that's just so they can squeeze more money out of it.

as a story id give it a 6/10 but as a companion or a behind the scenes to Lee's writing it's more like a 9/10. worth the read if you don't take it as "muh childhood ruining sequel RACYYYSST ATCUS"

>>6824767
>As somebody who grew up admiring Atticus and actually began studying law as a result of this book I find it interesting how hostile people have been towards it.

Lawyer here. I agree with this 100%.

I love TKAM Atticus. I really do. But this new view doesn't bother me at all. Honestly, it's a more well-rounded, realistic depiction of the nuances to the practice of law.

>>6824769
There's one on kickass

>>6819982
Sounds like a decent read

Audiobook when

>>6825129
Already.

Jesus im from /V/ and I thought lit was a lot better than this. I expect it in a video game forum but god you guys suck

>>6819284
!Ook Harper Lee - [To Kill a Mockingbird 02] - Go Set a Watchman (UK) (retail) (azw3).rar ::INFO:: 363.2KB

if you are into IRC

>>6825512
What the fuck is /V/?

>>6825512
>/V/
Youre not from /v/

I was just memeing

Scout was a cute kid, who should play her as an adult?

>>6825590
he meant /V./

>>6822734
I have a feeling you're dad's disappointed you didn't play football.

>>6824767
>As somebody who grew up admiring Atticus and actually began studying law as a result of this book
>actually began studying law as a result of this book
>actually began studying law
>as a result of this book

I can't wait for the movie

>Scout - Lena Dunham
>Atticus - Ben "No business like Shoah Business" Garrison
>Dill/Capote - Seymour Hoffmans bloated corpse

>>6822091
Does hate towards a group of people automatically make a man a bigot?
Or is it only when said hate is directed to a group of people with a decades long victim status, by another one that has been pushed and prompted to become "good people" against every of facet of common sense since that cancer that were the boomers?

>>6826323
It's reveiled that Calpurnia actually robbed him despite her being almst part of the family. Probably part of it

>>6822094
It's amazing how far the human race has come, and yet some people are still this stunted.

>>6826295
excellent post
he probably also decided on law because it's a respectable degree with a promise of high income

>>6826295
Could be worse

He could have decided to do law after playing phoenix wright like me then drop out to be a neet

>>6826295
I first read it when I was fifteen so I had a few years after to decide what I wanted to do. It was just the thing that kickstarted it all.

DOES THIS BOOK EXPLAIN WHY ABOUT AND JEM CALLED HIM ATTICUS I STEAM OF DVD EVEN FROM A YOUNG AGE? I NEVER UNDERSTOOD WHY THEY DID THIS AND I'M GOING THERE'S AN EXPLANATION SOMEWHERE

>>6826295
>tfw I'm now a successful lawyer thanks to TKaM, Phoenix Wright, and Legally Blond

>>6828533
>tfw I'm now a successful lawyer thanks to TKaM, Phoenix Wright, Legally Blond, and Boston Legal.

>>6826295
I've actually heard several lawyers say something similar. It's not that uncommon.

Considering the book was originally written more as a first draft of TKaMB than a different novel, it makes sense that characters from this draft might not be the same as characters from the final draft, right?

1) is it out yet? Local library didn't have it.

2) since it was written before TKAM, would I read GSAW first or nah?

Haven't read TKAM in years and I figure I'd do it again.

>>6823455
I like that. It was taken from Scout's perspective so of course Attucus, the wise allknowing man is simplified to someone intellectually and morally inscrutable. Because kids can't scrutinize.

Atticus makes a speech in that book about an uprising by blacks for injustices and such. Having him be a racist makes it a lot more poignant.

>>6822091
Blacks and asians do it.

>>6823044
underrated post

>>6822475
Not in Watchman. He wins the case, proving its non canon with TKAM

>>6822486
You didn't read the book. Shut up.

>>6826555
ouch

I am probably one of the few people who read Watchman before reading Mockingbird. And I never saw the movie. As of now, I am about 45% of the way through Mockingbird, so the trial hasn't even started yet. I am truly pleased to read them in this order because now I know who Atticus was and how he was personally conflicted and how painful it was for him to defend Tom. Miss Lee created a gothic tragedy that was much bigger than TKAM. If TKAM was a "big bang," Watchman was the expansion of the universe. Or some shit. I'm just glad I read Watchman first and got to know everyone before going back to the trial. Also, I will always cherish in my mind the picture of naked Scout standing in front of the preacher and her father out at the goldfish pond. Can I get an "A-Men?"

And although I've never seen the movie, I have seen stills and a few scenes, so I can't imagine Atticus as anyone but Gary Cooper. AI'll watch the movie tomorrow after I finish the book. Obviously I know how Scout looked, too (in the movie), so I can't help but see the two of them on the back porch, a scene that TCM shows all the time.

>>6833498
That scene made me audibly laug because the same thing happened to a girl I knew when we were 7-8

>>6833573
>I can't imagine Atticus as anyone but Gary Cooper

>>6833633
Exactly. And the voice, too. Reading the book, it's mostly the voice.

pretty honestly convinced capote did write to kill a mockingbird now. the quality of prose in this is just dreadful i just can't fathom how she created something like TKaM after this

>>6822734
My dad does the same thing but with politics.

>>6822767
>I wonder if people everywhere are just fucking up and stumbling over articles on this book.

Literally this thread

Holy shit, does he actually turn into a massive racist?

I'm never going to fucking read it either way, but bravo to whoever the fuck wrote it for having some fucking balls

>>6833925
>what is an unedited draft