/lit/ - Literature

>>6789407
Apollonian because i am rational

>>6789410
There's a great lecture on YouTube by Ayn Rand on the Dionysian and Apollonian where she characterizes
Woodstock = ultimate example of the Dionysian
Moon Landing = ultimate example of the Apollonian

>>6789407
How about both?

>>6789429
The Greeks said they took turns tending the Oracle at Delphi, so I guess it's possible.

Dionysus

I drink too much

>>6789407

neither. I choose the tragic: the product of their synthesis. I at once identify with the vast dionysian whole through a dissolution of ego, a recognition of my inherent valuelessness, then discharge that anti-ego through the image of my own apollonian reconstitution as the tragic hero of my life's story.

is it gay if i'm really attracted to this statue?

They're both necessary

>>6791415
Only if you buy into the dichotomy of Gay/Straight.

Which wouldn't be a very Greek way to think at all.

>>6791952
What's the Greek way of viewing that?

>>6789407
Look at that boiclit

Fucking look

tfw

>>6792285
You put your willy into whatever you damn well please, some trains of thought believed buggering boys was a waste of jissom, and some thought that man on man love was "purer" see: Theban sacred band, the relationship between the Erastes (Buggerer) and Eromenos (Buggeree), ect, ect.

Seriously, the Hetero-Homosexual dichotomy is an invention of the 18th century.

Before that, Sodomy could be ANYWHERE.

Looking at the general sorts of discussion I see on /r9k/, /soc/ and the broader porn boards, I can believe it.

I prefer a mix myself
Can't have one without the other

>>6791415
I am too but I don't have sexual relations with men so I guess you can say it isn't gay

>>6792313
nice try tumblrina, they are in the bible

>>6792330
I cannot *Citation Needed* hard enough.

>>6792344
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
Direct reference

Destroyed Sodom and Gamorrah because of Gays
Direct reference

Stop trying to live in your own fairy tale world

>>6792356
A reference to an act not an orientation.

I had quietly presumed you an idiot, and now I know for sure I can safely ignore you.

Bye bye.

>>6792356
yeah, what book is that from? how have you been building your houses lately? are you aware that each time you go to macdonalds you sin?

>>6792313
people did identify with their ethnicity and that back then though. The range of things you can identify only grew broader and being gay became just as much an identity as being Jewish or a Vegan

False dichotomy.

>>6792378
no one takes the bible literally, you interpret it by aligning yourself with the right path and letting God guide you. Don't start with these amazing athiest tier arguments

>>6789421
>Woodstock = ultimate example of the Dionysian
fucking rockists i swear to good

>>6789421
then why did they have a set stage and set certain times for the bands to play?

And maybe the planning behind the moon landing but the actual going to the moon was people around the world put in a trance by the experience of the astronauts

Idealistically speaking Apollonian.

>>6789443
great post

>>6792441
I don't have much time for any of those things either to be frank.

It is possible to overcomplicate identity.

And I think we have done just that.

>>6791952
No true Greek!

Dionysian with a dash of the Apollonian when young, Apollonian with a dash of the Dionysian when old.

>>6793217
True Greeks, no

>>6789407

Dionysian on 4chan, Apollonian in real life

>>6789421

> great lecture
> Ayn Rand

choose one. Also, these examples are high school teacher-tier.

>>6792452

no it isn't. read more closely.

>To the Apollonian Greeks the effect aroused by the Dionysian also seemed “Titanic” and “barbaric.” But they could not, with that response, conceal that they themselves were, nonetheless, internally related and similar to those deposed Titans and heroes. Indeed, they must have felt even more that their entire existence, with all its beauty and moderation, rested on some hidden underground of suffering and knowledge which was reawakened through that very Dionysian. And look! Apollo could not live without Dionysus! The “Titanic” and the “barbaric” were, in the end, every bit as necessary as the Apollonian.

>>6789421
once again she demonstrates her incompetency -- if anything woodstock is a close approximation of the tragic, with the crowd of hippies acting as the undifferentiated dionysian chorus, and the performers as their apollonian images onto which to project themselves.

>>6792313
>Seriously, the Hetero-Homosexual dichotomy is an invention of the 18th century.

>Before that, Sodomy could be ANYWHERE.

And punishable by death and torture in Europe, acceptable only with raped slave boys in the Middle East.

As far as I know, as the only gay in the village, it sounds like old Native American culture was where it was at, as far as accepting different sexual and gender identities.

What is this dichotomy, exactly?

>>6795701
Dionysian=Lust
Apollonian=Books

lust FOR books however is called Dilopposaurus
pic related

>>6789443
tragedy is always incomplete

>>6795792
i half keked

>>6792320
dat painting

>>6794050
feel free to offer up some better ones

>>6795808
and so my legend shall live forever

Dionysian

>>6795792
>>6795701
Read more

>Basis of Western civilisation
>Invented several forms of governance
>Greatest philosophers
>Archimedes invented calculus millennia before Newton
>Heroic culture which prized beauty and intellect alike
>People judged on their biological worth (pre-Socrates)
>kalos k'agathos was a core principle of pre-Socratic Greece. He who was beautiful was virtuous.
>naturally eugenic society
>dawn of ancient Greek civilisation had stressed inferiority of women, which was strongly asserted. in Sparta, women were trained as ruthlessly as men were, and women were trained in gymnastics with the men almost nude - which led to a freedom between the sexes
>feminism non-existent until the last degenerate phases of the civilisation when it fell
>highly interbred genetic infrastructure to produce best racial stock
>mandatory physical training for all citizens
>Beautiful society, especially in Athens, it is known that friends of Socrates felt the need to apologise for his repulsive physical form to people they met
>Superior polytheistic religion, each god a personification of an important trait, concept or object


>We will never return to the epoch of humanity which was Ancient Greece

>>6797365
>spooks and opinions
wow

>>6795701
Dionysian = Chaos, irrationality
Apollonian = Order, rationality

One of the reasons Nietzsche disliked Socrates' influence on Greek society was because Nietzsche thought that Socrates disrupted the previously perfect balance of the two. Socrates promoted Apollonian philosophy and dialectics (and, incidentally body and soul dualism, which Nietzsche hated, too)

>>6796171
There are the Bacchanalias as they were described by the prudes of the day.

- People of all ages are invited.
- Loud, dissonant music is played.
- Wine and other goodies are served.
- Eventually devolves into a massive wanton rape/fuck riot where much train is run and screams are drowned out by cymbals.

Apparently there were more women than men at these things, so we get a good idea where matriarchy is headed.

Is this like an ancient left/right political wings?

>>6799134
read Nietzsche birth of tragedy.

>>6797395
It's a natural conclusion from Nietzsche's dualism; body = chaos, irrationality; soul = order, rationality.

>>6799134
I think it's Nietzschean

>>6799166
>>6799209
I'd recommend Sexual Personae instead. Nietzsche kind of screwed it up.

>>6799215
lol this book is so fucking bad, i hope you are joking

>>6799230
>buttmad Dionysian detected

>>6799215
I'm saying it's a concept he came up with. How could this hack not screw up the originator of it?
Mfw

>>6799282
He popularized the dichotomy, but his conception of what the Gods, through their festivals and writings, actually meant to the Greeks was quite a bit off--and he ended up tweaking the image to suit his own ends.

He ended up being a thoroughgoing "Dionysian" by the end of his life, but to him that meant someone who embraced the Nietzchean philosophy, not a Dionysian as someone approaching the God as the Greeks did would see a Dionysian.

In fact, Nietzche's works received very poor reviews from contemporary classical scholars for exactly that reason, if I recall correctly.

>>6799297
>through their festivals and writings, actually meant to the Greeks was quite a bit off-
He got a teaching position for Grecian philology in his 20's, what are her credentials?

>>6799234
>le wymon are uncontrolled chaos danger sexuality ying yang, men only think it be like order but it dont

simply epic. Honestly the most useless sophistry i've ever had the misfortune of coming across.

Its one giant excuse to make the history of women's sexuality seem more mystical

No wonder the bitch hated Foucault, at least his sex work was based on anthropology and not emotional bullshit.

>>6799325
PhD. Studied the classics. Knows Latin. Avowed pagan.

>>6799341
I thought it was an interesting book and had some fairly compelling theories. I was moved by how her characterizations accorded with my experience. I like "popular philosophy" like it that deals with how the average person parses the world through the lens of culture, and not nihilistic hairsplitting about how every truth is actually untrue.

It also sucked males dicks, so that helped.

>>6799297
>someone who embraced the Nietzchean philosophy

no it does not, it mean somebody who bring chaos and destruction in a way that is overflowing with life, promoting life. While anarchist and christian bring chaos and destruction as revenge for their suffering, making things anemic.

>>6789407
"or"

>>6799517

>>6789429
This. Without both there'd be no tragic art, which is the best art.

>>6792297
the greeks considered being a grower and not a shower to be an important part of the male physical ideal.