/lit/ - Literature

>>6780181
why do you believe in God if you don't believe in the bible?

From what evidence do you believe in God?

>>6780190
First of all, the bible isn't evidence of anything. I can write a book about a rapist ghost on the loose and it would be just as provable as the bible.
I believe in God because I'm afraid to die. And I'm not afraid to admit that, like most of you are.
Now will you answer my question instead of deflecting?

>>6780181
God is a comforting belief. Man ascribes meaning to the void. Helps mask the horror of the absurd

>>6780201
>I believe in God because I'm afraid to die.

Kek, you realise that's straight-to-hell-tier belief? Nice one Pascal.

>>6780181

The way The Bible's status has stood up all these years is proof that it's God's word because it shows God cares for it and wants it to survive.

>>6780204
does your mom know you're using the computer, underage?

>>6780201
So you make a massive jump in logic based in fear? That's weak as fuck, man. You are a scrawny mental weakling.

I'm afraid to die but I don't believe in anything that doesn't have any tangible evidence backing up it's existence.

As for your question that you accuse me of "evading"(when really I didn't see it worth answering, + you answered it yourself with "It's literally a story book that was written a long ass time ago"), who the fuck do you think wrote the bible? magic space robots?

It was probably humans.

>>6780217
appealing to authority
>>6780209
You really think God would send someone to hell for that? Really? Do you even know why religion exists in the first place?

>>6780223
I know humans wrote the bible. Everyone knows this. The question was "why do people believe in it" so no i didnt answer my own question. Quit being a faggot and either contribute to the thread or fucking btfo.

>>6780225
>appealing to authority

God's authority is pretty reliable, my Christian friend.

>>6780225
Religion exists because the supernatural is real. Duh.

>>6780231
You arent appealing to Gods authority, youre appealing to the fact that its "Held up"(im guessing youre saying since its the #1 bestseller in america or some shit) If thats not what you're referring to than youre an idiot for thinking the bible has "held up" all these years based on all the shit thats been proven wrong with it.

>>6780225
>Do you even know why religion exists in the first place?
please enlighten me

>>6780230
because Jesus is God, and he told us the Bible is his Word (not "the Bible", as we know it now, but the scripture used by Jews, New Testament was compilled with the Old and was called the Bible)

>>6780239
>based on all the shit thats been proven wrong with it.

All the shit has been "proved wrong" and yet we're still a mighty Christian nation. Seems like God's word can't be dispelled that easily.

>>6780242
Because people were afraid to die. They said "whats the point?" And probably acted like fucking animals. So someone made up a religion to make people all act a specific way that was considered normal or "not sinning" so there was more civility.

>>6780246
Yea but thats in the scripture, therefore its anecdotal information, not empircal.
>>6780247
what do you mean by "proved wrong"? Do you think the earth is 7000 years old and dinosaur fossils are here to tempt us?
"mighty christians nation"
once again, appealing to authority.

>>6780246
How can you believe Jesus? Have you seen him perform any miracles? Has anyone?

>>6780230
You still answered your own question in your post.

>fear

fucking dumbass, the same reason you believe in God is the reason people believe in the bible. You just make an even more absurd jump than they do because they at least have a book to point to. You just pretend your own idea of whatever the fuck God is is real and are okay with that. Because of fear.

>>6780261
Okay and while yes that is my reasoning i want other peoples opinions. Its called a discussion, you fucking dumbass.

>>6780261
I dont pretend my idea of God is real? In fact, I doubt the existence of God more than i believe in him. Theres nothing wrong with believing in God, you're just a bitter asshole. Did you get touched as a child? Why would god let that happen to you, huh? :(

>>6780254

>Do you think the earth is 7000 years old and dinosaur fossils are here to tempt us?

Are you really that led astray from God's word? You accuse me of appealing to God, yet it's fine that you appeal to the authority of scientists, who practice an imperfect and ever changing art?

I truly pity you. I will pray for you tonight.

>>6780264
Can you really conceive of another idea as to why an educated person would believe in the bible other than fear or security?

>>6780248
I thought this when I was 14. It's true for some religious people but not for the majority.

I'm an atheist btw

>>6780270
No, but thats why I'm asking, i dont assume things about everyone like you do.
>>6780268
You arent appealing to God, you're appealing to the fact that the majority of people believe in him. Thats appealing to authority. Do you Christians even know how to read? Thank you for praying for me, but it wont help. So you're saying the dinosaur fossils arent real, then? You're saying the earth is 7000 years old? When we have so much proof of otherwise? Which is more imperfect, science or religion? Pretty obvious choice if you ask me.

>>6780254
>Yea but thats in the scripture, therefore its anecdotal information, not empircal.
so you dismiss history because it is not empirical?

>>6780260
>How can you believe Jesus? Have you seen him perform any miracles? Has anyone?
No, but we have accounts which say he did, which were written from 40-70 AC. And there is the devoutness of his disciples that they were willing to die than recanting their belief

>>6780270
Not that guy, but what if someone has had a transcendent experience?

>>6780276
you assume that God exists for no reason, why not assume things about other people? much less of an illogical leap.

>>6780279
So are all religions correct because they have some historical facts behind them?
>No, but we have accounts that say he did
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

>>6780276
>So you're saying the dinosaur fossils arent real, then? You're saying the earth is 7000 years old? When we have so much proof of otherwise? Which is more imperfect, science or religion?
Since when do the majority of Christians claim all that shit?

>>6780288
The Bible describes a line of descendants of Adam and Eve, and if we add ages of these people, this can lead to an estimate of the age of the earth of somewhat more than six thousand years. Such an age is in strong contrast to what many scientists say about the age of the earth: a few billion years.
>sorry, meant six thousand
so what you're saying is you believe in the bible but not in how old the bible says the earth is? fucking lol

>>6780286
>ignoring the rest of the post

>>6780295
yea i stopped reading there lmao

>>6780280
schizophrenic onset experience influenced by a belief in god they held because of fear/security.

religious schizophrenic people tend to have religiously related schizophrenic experiences. Their initial belief is influenced by fear or a lack of security. If they were not religious at all in the first place, they wouldn't have a religion-related experience.

ITT: Christians getting torn apart by some 20 year old kid

>>6780181

The Bible is mainly allegory for higher spiritual and metaphysical truths, along with some nice history. The great theologians like Aquinas and Scotus showed that the Religion that the Bible teaches is completely reconcilable with reason, and in many cases- that the God of the bible is necessitated by reason. Complete biblical literalism was considered near-heretical for many years,especially from 800-1200. These days some heretics act as if every story in the bible is meant to be believed in a historical or scientific fact, this shows their degraded modernist epistemology and how they have strayed from the true faith.

>>6780294
the Bible doesnt give the age of Earth
what youre doing is the equivalent of someone paying songs in reverse and "discover" they are mind manipulating devices of ZOG

Also, i thought it was understood since the beginning of Christianity that Genesis is an allegorical story. Sure it's theologically rich, but it wasnt written to be history.
>inb4 yu must take all the bibles literalz, if yu dont it iznt xtian xDD
that's like taking the full library literally

>>6780297
so you dismiss history because you didnt see it

holy shit m8 are you a solipsist too?

>>6780298
>dismissing the supernatural as schizophrenia

kek, sheltered suburban twentysomething detected

>>6780315
>>6780312
>The bible is wrong but i still believe in it cause I think I found hidden meanings and symbolism

>>6780324
>I believe in God 'cause daddy slaps my ass if i dont

>>6780321
Where in history other than the bible does is say jesus performed miracles and walked on water?

>9 posters
I'm convinced /lit/ is smarter than these threads and they're populated by a loud minority of idiots

>2015
>debating religionvsatheis on the internet

>>6780332
>I dont believe in God

>>6780333
the Gospels came into existance way before the Bible was compilated

>>6780323
>>>/x/

you're on /lit/, in case you didn't know. Here we only accept claims that have no reificated basis.

Yea Christians are retarded. They cant even defend their own religion properly without getting butthurt and start referring to it as "symbolic"
when in reality christianity is just based off other religions.

>>6780337
Im sorry, who are you quoting?

>>6780324

Where in the bible does it say that everything in the bible has to be taken literally ?

>>6780347
unless its believing in the bible, apparently.

>>6780347
We're discussing religion, the supernatural can't be avoided.

>>6780352
Ahahaha what a Christian thing to do
>he proved muh bible wrong so now i say its all symbolic and not to be taken literally
so jesus didnt literally die on the cross? there isnt literally a hell? Please tell me, which parts are to be taken literally and which parts arent?

>>6780350
If you want to know what Christians claim, look at the Catholics, Orthodox and even the Anglicans, not Pat and Bob's fringe sect that started last monday

>>6780352
well, down this path of reasoning, where in the bible does it say that anything isn't entirely made up for shits?

>>6780372
ahaha nice

>>6780219
*tips mitre*

>>6780358
good reason to not be on the side of religion, as there is no more evidence for God as there is for ghosts, magic, leprechauns or bigfoot.

>>6780382
Thats exactly the point I'm trying to make. So why the fuck do people believe in the bible, specifically? Why not other religions? Clearly there are more level headed ones than ones where the in the bible god literally says "Your God is a jealous God" and he tells people to go to war AND the bible has instructions for how to treat slaves. Also its cool to fuck an 11 year old as long as your married. lmao

>>6780389
yet you believe in God? why? it's just as stupid and baseless as believing in the bible.

>>6780394
Not necessarily. I dont find it stupid to believe in a benevolent creator of the universe, especially since we dont even know what happened before the big bang, or even where the singularity comes from. I mean if you look around you you say "all these things are man-made" you dont think they just spontaneously came into creation do you?

>>6780389
youve gotten many responses OP, that you refuse to acknowledge them shows how much of a hard hat you are

And youre not going to heaven just because you believe God exists, dont be stupid

>>6780407
I actually have sat here and replied to them all. The majority of the christian hating in this thread was done by me.

>>6780389
those are for the jewish people. new testament is for christians

>>6780407
and when did i say heaven was real? Why do you automatically think God = heaven?
>dont be stupid

>>6780181
God wouldn't put us here without giving us a guide on how to live. Otherwise it wouldn't be fair to judge us, if we had no guide.

>>6780418
So why do you believe the bible is the only real guide when theres tons of religions out there?

>>6780365

No one has "proved the bible wrong" at all in this thread. Nor did I say that everything is to be taken in symbolic manner. I'm asking you what, in principle, is wrong with a text having sections that are meant to be taken in different ways? There is a whole discipline called hermeneutics dedicated to the study of this kind of question in regards to religion, and of course there are tons of theological works on this question. I'm not a scholar of the bible so I don't think I'm qualified to answer the question of specifics.

>>6780372

There is a difference here. He claimed that the bible HAD to be taken all literally. I am asking what grounds that claim. Suggesting that unless he thinks that all texts should be taken literally, that something from the text itself would be the best source to ground the claim in.

If you have evidence to suggest that part of the bible was made up for shits then present it. But I would expect some evidence for the claim rather than meme-tier conjecture.

>>6780399
not finding it a dumb idea that a benevolent creator exists does not = evidence that a benevolent creator exists, whatsoever.

>"before" the big bang
there was no time as we know it before the big bang, so as far as we define time, there was no "before" the big bang. You obviously have little understanding of your own existence, yet you make claims such as that a God exists.

and what the fuck do you mean by "all these things are man made"? what do galaxies millions of light years away have anything to do with mankind?

And I have no idea if they spontaneously existed or were created by an intelligence. Neither idea seems more likely than the other, as there is no evidence for either. I make no jump in reasoning here, as it's pointless to do so.

>>6780421
>why do you believe the bible when satan has been tricking men into believing false religions

>>6780416
>I believe in God because I'm afraid to die
>I believe in God
>because I'm afraid to die
>I'm afraid to die
>afraid to die
did you meant something else when you used these words?

>>6780422
Where in the bible does it say some parts are to be taken literally and some parts symbolic. Please, direct me to that scripture.

>>6780181
Daily reminder that the Exodus never happened.

>>6780422
>If you have evidence to suggest that part of the bible was made up for shits then present it.
the burden of proof isn't on me, though. There is no evidence that the bible was the word of a divine creator. The burden of proof is on the people making the claim, not the people pointing out that there is no evidence for this claim.

>>6780436
but you are the one who is making the claim

amd you think youre logical?

>>6780428
I actually know how the big bang works, but the only reason there is no "before" the big bang to us is because relative to us there was no before. Does not mean there was literally nothing or there was no "before". Just means time is relative.
I meant look around you by your computer, all the shit around you is man made
then you look up to the heavens and since those arent man made you think it all just spontaneously appeared there?
>>6780430
i never stated heaven was real, just that I'm scared that it isnt
>>6780436
>burden of proof lies to people making the claim
like the claim that the bible is the true word of God?
Prove it.

>>6780382

Except there are detailed proofs of the existence of God, while there are none for the other things you mentioned.

>>6780389
Because when one studies the Bible they realize that the religion it pronounces best corresponds to reason + personal experiences of God and socio-political reasons ( with Christianity being the only thing holding Western Civilization together and responsible for all it's greatest scholarship and art).

>>6780453
Yes, thats why religions were created, to create civility. You Christians are so stupid. How does it correspond to reason? We've already shown that the bible is full of bullshit and then when someone proves it wrong you all say "ohh its symbolic"

>>6780436
lol what kind of evidence do you want? selfies of god writing the first bible?

>>6780453
What are the detailed proofs of God? You realize if those existed it would be the story of the century right? And if there is detailed proof that God exists, what the fuck does that have to do with Christianity when there are like a thousand religions that all say God exists.

>>6780464
>You realize if those existed it would be the story of the century right?

they were the story of about ten centuries

>We've already shown that the bible is full of bullshit
>13 posters
>thinks saying "nuh uh" is giving an argument

pic related answered your whining hundreds of years ago

also>>6780451
>i never stated heaven was real, just that I'm scared that it isnt
so you believe in something without evidence? how much of a hypocrite are you?

>>6780474
What about the fact that the only reference to the Exodus is in the Bible and not in any other records by other peoples or in any kind of archeological evidence?

>>6780474
when did i say "nuh uh"?
what does "i never stated heaven was real" have to do with me believing in something without evidence?

>>6780474
yea this guy is at least half retarded based on the ridiculousness of that post.

>>6780478
there's a difference between finding no archaeological evidence and saying that the 'bible is full of bullshit'

do you think all the archaeological evidence that ever existed has been found?

>>6780428
You can have ontological priority, without temporal priority corresponding to it.

>>6780431

Matthew 13: 34. All these things spoke Jesus to the multitude in parables; and he did not speak without a parable.

This passage also does not preclude literal readings as well. One section could have both a literal and a symbolic meaning, but this shows that there are always higher symbolic meanings involved.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also has made us able ministers of the new testament, not of the letter but of the spirit for the letter kills but the spirit gives life.

We must not always focus on the "letter" itself, but figure out what it's purpose is.

2 Corinthians 3:15 But even unto this day when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when they shall turn to the Lord the vail shall be taken away.

Part of Christianity is reinterpretation of the old testament so to "take the veil away".

>>6780436
The evidence is how well it corresponds to reason. Obviously the support from this claim is such a large body of work that it would not fit. But even go try starting with Aquinas with an open mind and the more you look into it the more you will find that Christianity is not at all incommensurable with human reason.

>>6780487
ahahahaha so YOU believe in something without evidence, correct? But now when the question is turned on you you say "do you think all the evidence has ever been found"
fucking christians, i swear man.

>>6780492
i'm not the guy you were initially responding to nor am i a christian. i just think it's an odd conclusion to make. scientific knowledge isn't set in stone so don't act like it immediately has all the answers just by the fact that it exists

>>6780489
Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about.
So, how do you reinterpret "an eye for an eye" into "treat others like you would want to be treated"

>>6780495
Oh, see look how easy it is for people to believe stuff without evidence. I had no idea you werent the original poster, but i assumed you were. Might as well be a Christian myself.

>>6780492
you believe in God without evidence, how is that any better?

>>6780501
Thats not what i was saying. I agreed that i believe in God without evidence. But I'm not defending that belief. I will myself say "there is not evidence" So its better cause at least im not in fucking denial and i dont pretend that my religion has all the answers and everyone else goes to hell like christians do.

>>6780507
well youre fucking stupid
>2015
>believing something without evidence

>>6780514
You believe that I believe in God, without any actual evidence. I could be trolling, and you would never know, yet you still believe that i believe in god.
See how easy it is to believe in shit without evidence?
>Well you're fucking stupid

>>6780457

It corresponds with it because all of its major doctrines have been proven to not be contrary to reason through it's Theologians. The Bible is meant to be taken allegorically at times as I proved here >>6780489 , and you have yet to show that anything in the bible is "bullshit".

>>6780464
Aquinas' 5 ways among other forms of the Cosmologial arguments. The Ontological argument has many proponents including a recent one by mathematician Kurt Godel. Some of them show a generic God, but some of them show that it is the Christian God. Scotus' "De Primo Principio" is a 75 page proof of this. But his writing is obscure and difficult so I suggest sticking to Aquinas.

Here is Feser's account of why any response you have to the cosmologial argument ( which I provided in an earlier post) is probably a result of you not understanding the argument.

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/2011/07/so-you-think-you-understand.html

>>6780518

>>6780521
So if you have been keeping up with the thread, I believe in God. My question is how does any of this pertain to Christianity? What is the "Christian God" and how exactly do they prove his existence?

>>6780181
The Bible was, of course, written by humans, but under the inspiration of God.

>>6780527
I wasnt trolling you tard, i was explaining that i could be trolling and he would never know. Jesus you're retarded.

>>6780521
Also, the bible has been proven wrong scientifically about shit historically and scientifically before jesus said shit about his "symbology" or parables, or whatever.

Okay guys thanks for the discussion I'm going to bed, was nice chatting. Good luck with your christian stuff

>>6780487
>do you think all the archaeological evidence that ever existed has been found?
That's not the standard, obviously, or you should abandon Christianity since "you can't know nuffin." We do know, however, the Egyptian historical timeline, and we know the Levant historical timeline, and we don't know everything 100% perfectly and it's not one video with multiple angles, but the fact is that there is not even a single piece of archeological evidence showing millions of nomads traveling the desert for years and there's no mention in Egyptian history of half of the population being slaves (all Hebrew), nor that they left after they summoned plagues, which also lack any kind of evidence.

You're tempted to say, "the Egyptians wouldn't have written about it and maybe all the evidence is lost in the desert, it was a long time ago," but even if we accept those, the fact is that there's no where in the Egyptian timeline this fits. But let's keep in mind that the records of the heathen king Akhenaten exist, and there are many commonplace records that have survived of transactions between persons, work shifts, plans for building. Which goes into another problem, the fact that Egyptian slaves didn't work heavy labor like pyramid building, which was a well-paid and respected job one was hired into and could leave.

>>6780540
>believes in God without evidence
>accuses others of doing it
>calls them dumb
>doesnt see the irony
im going to call it a b8 right now guys, you can already go home

I forgot what the historian said but it was something like " there isnt a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the original bible."

the bible currently has been altered to shit. how can you base a religion off a book like this.

>>6780497

The people who wrote "eye for an eye" had an incomplete religion. As mentioned, The Old Testament is an imperfect work that has to be perfected by our knowledge of the New Testament. To me that says that some of the Old Testament can be disregarded, but I'm not an expert on the Bible so there are probably other answers. I focus on natural theology personally. It could also be that while God did command the Jews to do something at that time, it was for a greater good in the long run, and the option to act in such a way is longer conducive to a greater good. Another thing you have to look out for is when fedoras take historical accounts of an author writing a sentence that says something like " and then he sold his daughter to her rapist", as a command of God, when it was actually part of a narrative, and not some sort of moral precept.

Like with any other body of knowledge, you are'nt going to gain sufficient knowledge of Christian Theology and the Bible without years of studying. Thinking that one can condemn it all from reading a few misquotes or because they went to a shitty church service once just shows one's arrogance, not anything wrong with the tradition itself.

>>6780534

>>6780453
It is a memed version of the argument so it is missing allot of the subtlety, but this will get you started.

Good supplementary reading to go along with it.

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/2011/07/so-you-think-you-understand.html

>>6780543

They proved the Bible wrong scientifically before it was even written ? Or do you mean the Romans proved the Old Testament wrong somehow ? Regardless, the Old Testament is an incomplete body of knowledge without the New Testament to interpret it by so it doesn't matter if there are some apparent prima facie errors in it.

Also, Scientific realism is a pretty sketchy position to hold. We can't even reconcile Quantum and Relativistic physics with one another. Science is mainly just a tool of systematization that can be used to manipulate things, it never has much more than a "probable" truth value. It is a great form of knowledge, don't get me wrong, but it is incredibly contingent. You actually can't "prove" anything scientifically, proof belongs to mathematics and metaphysics( to a much lesser degree). Science just gains evidence for certain empirical claims, but nothing is strictly "proven" by it.

>>6780181
Do you really think someone would do that?

Just go on books and tell lies?