/lit/ - Literature

>>6763350
No.

>>6763350
lol no

our intelligence has nothing to do with truth. in fact, truth is a stupid fucking concept to begin with.

No.
Old philosophers had much less scientific knowledge than your average high schooler nowadays, but who is smarter?

>>6763356
I don't agree with your point, because...

>>6763360
Is this what you're saying true or it's false, because you said something really stupid.

>>6763375
you have to ask the question 'why did our intelligence evolve the way it did' and you'll see that the answer is survival, not truth. you can argue truth and survival go hand in hand but i dare you to prove it you little bitch

>>6763373
I understand but, capacity of being intelligent is not being intelligent. Isn't it?

>>6763378
Same question above. "evolution" gave us the capacity to understand the truth, so I guess it's not about what made my brain to work like this but what I should do.
Also, my point has nothing to do with the physical structure of our brains, but the intelligence itself.

>>6763400
>evolution" gave us the capacity to understand the truth,
no. it only made us survive and reproduce

>>6763407
First of all, evolution is only a material concept, the logos can not evolve. If a rock could think, we would be thinking in the same substract which is reality.

>>6763350
Start with this, OP: What do you mean by 'truth'?

Personal Truth? Objective Truth? Moral Truth? Historical Truth? Factual Truth? All of the Above?

>>6763417
You are fucking stupid

OP's question is problematic because he is trying make his statement the truth by asking for collective agreement about an aspect of reality that is by definition none existent.

never forget:

truth is the currently widely accepted opinion from the fallible interpretation of reality by humans.

For now.

>>6763429
>>6763423
Truth is what in the discourse (logos) corresponds to reality. In the most universal and objective sense of the term.

I can not think how could someone deny this definition of truth, because reality and consciousness are both self evident.

>>6763438
But that correspondence is determined through human interpretation of it which can be manipulated.

>>6763447
This is called untruth. The consequence of free will.

I actually know where this is going to end.

>>6763449
So in order to achieve absolute truth the ego has to be entirely focused on knowledge? No other motive such as fame or recognition? Does this not mean that forums such as /lit/ and /sci/ have the potential to achieve it?

>>6763360
>in fact, truth

>>6763378
Truth never destroys truth so an evolving system will always tend towards truth because everything else destroys itself.

>>6763456

>>6763457
Absolute truth is unknowable because we're inside of it, we're part of the game and not an external observer. That's the funniest part.

The only reason we understand it, is because there's something in our own minds that evidently shows us the concept of the absolut even thought we can't achieve it, but we share something with it by analogy.

>>6763489
but what if the belief that absolute truth is unknowable is based on the inherent dissatisfaction of humanity as a result of the fear of death? Is it a comfort blanket to protect us from the possible mortality of the pursuit of knowledge?

>>6763350
Thinking there is ONE truth is litteraly not being intelligent.

Define "truth".

>>6763641
>uses literally incorrectly
>spells it wrong

Ok, but by contradicting the search for an absolute truth, by saying that there is in fact multiple truths surely is attempting to come to an absolute truth that there is no absolute truth?

>>6763641
Nonsense, there are an infinite number of one truths.

>>6763657
yeah ok buddy, is that your joke punchline at the comedy café?

>>6763657
ah, but wouldn't level two of reaching truth be finding out what is coherent between those absolute truths?

>>6763652
yeah i see you wanna contradict me just for the sake of contradiction.
You can call it the absolute truth if that makes it better for you, but if there is such a thing; there is no chance in hell we'll get to that truth.
Humans are limited. If there is an absolute truth, it is not ours to understand.

>>6763350
Nope. Intelligence is the ability to think abstractly and pattern match.

>>6763668
Contradiction helps discussions develop. And I was merely playing as I was enjoying the discussion.

>>6763350
"the truth"?

what the fuck is "the truth"? define it first. is there only a single over arching truth or something?

"intelligence" is commonly used as an umbrella term covering various cognitive abilities that include things like abstract thought, memory, and perception.

Claiming that intelligence actually measures the capacity to perceive a truth based on your own definition of truth is basically faith. Nothing but childish reification.

>>6763662
No, level 2 is the one where you fight the boss with a meat cleaver.

>>6763660
No, you're the joke.

>>6763674
But you're not playing anymore...funny.

>>6763668
Contradictor here. I wrote that earlier >>6763429

My contradictions are to help highlight how bizarre the search for truth is. It's a fun game.

>>6763677
Is that an absolute truth?

>>6763668
>call it the absolute truth if that makes it better for you, but if there is such a thing; there is no chance in hell we'll get to that truth.
>If there is an absolute truth, it is not ours to understand.

So much contradiction and implying, wow.

If you claim to not able to understand an absolute truth, wouldn't it require some kind of supernatural level of understanding to claim that it is impossible to be understood?

Your ideas are obviously based in faith. You are treating things with no basis in reality as axiomatic, in your own mind. You're limiting the scope of your own perception dramatically.

>>6763683
Ok that makes sense now.

>>6763350
No. That doesn't clarify the definition of intelligence at all. What truth must you perceive to be intelligent? Any truth?

I would say intelligence is the point at which a system that acts upon its inputs adapts to its conditions and recognizes patterns in its inputs.

>>6763686
But surely it takes faith to believe that there is indeed an absolute truth? Why would you devote your life to it or even remotely pursue it without some sort of faith that it exists?

>>6763686
You're right...because i know it doesn't matter what absolute truth there is out there. Cause it's out there.
Humans need to believe, but they don't need a proof to believe. They just need to be drawn to something that makes sense for them.
I don't know that it requires a supernatural level of understanding...i think there are too many notions to digest at once for one human being. It is fun diving into these notions, but ultimately you just want to eat, breathe, have sex, pee and shit.

>>6763687
do join in. With enough contradictions we might just come to an absolute truth.

>>6763691
Yeah, that's my point. Your ideas are based in faith. You're making logical jumps in reasoning in the foundation of your reality. Whether or not you think that's a good is obviously up to you.

>>6763693
I have seen absolutely no tangible evidence for any kind of thing such as an "absolute truth" to exist. Why make jumps in reasoning and assume that it must exist? What's the point? It's lying to yourself as much as deciding that God exists or that Astrological projection is real.

>>6763350
No.

>>6763705
>I have seen absolutely no tangible evidence for any kind of thing such as an "absolute truth" to exist. Why make jumps in reasoning and assume that it must exist? What's the point? It's lying to yourself as much as deciding that God exists or that Astrological projection is real.
Because it feels nice to think his way. It's all ego, baby

>>6763705
your belief that there is no absolute truth is also based in faith. How are you supposed to know that to be true without supporting evidence? Are you not taking logical jumps in reasoning from the foundation of your reality?

To a certain degree, yes. Though more often, it is the capacity that percieves illusion. To truly know, one must experience the living knowledge.

>>6763712
He's not saying "there is none", but clearly if we don't know, you're not justified in saying intelligence is caused by knowledge of the truth. Which still makes you a retard.

Sorry you're retarded, someone had to tell you.

>>6763689
This guy, this guy gets it.

You might as well have truth become Truth. As infallible as God and as eagerly followed.

Intelligence varies within species and individuals. It is reactionary, it is functionary and it is what makes us more efficient machines.

>>6763513

What if the belief in absolute truth is knowable is based on the inherent dissatisfaction of humanity as a result of the fear of death? Is it a comfort blanket to protect us from possible mortality [sic] of the pursuit of knowledge?

This philosophy thang aint that hard.

>>6763720
i'm the contradictor, contradicting for the sake of contradiction. I became too binary in contradictions as I got too wrapped up in contradicting.

>>6763712
Not only have I not said "there is no absolute truth"(you are putting words into my mouth), but the burden of proof is not on me.

"There is an absolute truth."
"How can you say that when there is no evidence?"
"Prove that there is no evidence."

"God exists"
"How can you say that with no evidence?"
"Prove that there is no evidence."

lrn2burdenofproof

>>6763732
Except it's possible to be infinitely skeptical, meaning to prove, there must be some rigorous criterion of proof.

That's why everybody in philosophy is secretly an empiricist or a phenomenologist; they had to basically stop "proving" to get Christian theology out of philosophy

l2pyrrhonianskepticism

>>6763726
Protip: all of this is just wasting time before we die to feel like we have achieved something beyond basic reproduction.

To attribute meaning to our lives where, potentially, there is none.

>>6763705
lol but you're the anon that first spoke of an absolute truth, right? Now you're denying it exists? wtf

>>6763737
You say this when you are the person who's trying to prove something, not I. You are effectively nuking the playing field and destroying your own argument that "absolute truth" exists by bringing these points up.

You:
>Absolute truth exists
Me:
>Why would you come to this conclusion when no evidence exists?
You:
>It's impossible to say anything is for certain retard!

this is what you sound like.

>>6763741
no I'm not. where did you get that impression? read the discussion. This is my first post:

>>6763686

>>6763743
>le babbies first argumentum ad absurdum

truth is what you value, so you expect everyone to follow your values to prove your values are not good. no, what i'm saying is not "true" or "false" in any platonic or fregeian sense.

aka stop being a fucking faggot

>>6763751
So your definition of truth is "what you value"

It then must follow that your definition of "Intelligence" is "the capacity to perceive what you value?", as you have now defined "truth".

Your opinion on the definition of intelligence is your ability to perceive what you personally find valuable. Just throwing that out there.

and this statement
>so you expect everyone to follow your values to prove your values are not good
why would I expect people to follow what I value, whatever that means, so that they can prove that my values are bad? I don't understand what on earth you are trying to say at all, it's a mess.

truth truth truth, am i right? am i true?

>>6763768
>So your definition of truth is "what you value"
lolololololol your brain is so small. no.

>It then must follow that your definition of "Intelligence" is "the capacity to perceive what you value?", as you have now defined "truth".
it then follows that you're a fucking idiot

>Your opinion on the definition of intelligence is your ability to perceive what you personally find valuable. Just throwing that out there.
just throw your head into a blender

>why would I expect people to follow what I value, whatever that means, so that they can prove that my values are bad? I don't understand what on earth you are trying to say at all, it's a mess.
that's because you're an intellectual simpleton who hasn't read out of his comfort zone or put any thought into anything for longer than three minutes, then posture and act like a cunt because people reject your trivially stupid definition offhand

seriously, unless you're willing to think a little bit, stop posting

>>6763779
you have officially devolved into making zero counter arguments to defend your claim. There is nothing in this post but insults and a contradiction. As for that contradiction, I'll just quote you.

>"Can we all agree that intelligence is the capacity to perceive the truth?"
>"truth is what you value"

It then must follow that by your own definitions, you believe:

>"intelligence is the capacity to perceive what you value"

>>6763793
that wasn't a definition you autist

>>6763793
and i'm calling you stupid partially because i'm not even trying to debate, but you're all just "come at me bro" as if you're somehow worth talking to on an intellectual level lmao

posturing your own importance is a very sad modus

>>6763350
>>6763356
>>6763360
>>6763373
You are correct OP, these morons cant understand that you're are redefining Intelligence. They think that intelligence is about getting money or fucking women, their puny brains can't comprehend the idea of an absolute truth.

>>6763793
ergo intelligence according to OP's definition is problematic as it is defined by the self.

You choose what contradictions to your 'intelligence' you accept and then rectify. You choose the scope of your 'intelligence' through which direction you focus your attribution of 'truths'. Your choice of focus is held to varying standards within society and in itself may not be determined of worth or as 'intelligent' as others.

>>6763793
I mean, you act as though we should speak rigorously or like we're talking about the truth.

Literally your OP is a definition. It doesn't matter what anyone says, it can't be true or false because it's a definition. We told you to fuck off because your definition is retarded. Then you're coming back all butthurt because you THINK you're smart, but you're not.

Literally there's nothing to say about your definition. Nobody cares and we don't need it to carry on living a happy and fulfilling life. So fuck off, you don't matter.

>>6763809
I can't even fault your for this, nice

>>6763815
my definition is retarded? what definition? I don't remember defining intelligence.

>>6763798
>"truth is what you value"
is literally defining truth

>>6763809
>>6763816
the samefag is real. The amount of unique IPs hasn't risen from 21, which is what it was before this was posted, and this >>6763809
is impersonating someone who is new to the thread.

Is this really how far you have to go to affirm your sense of superiority? it doesn't surprise me that you would lie to yourself so deeply as to pretend to be other people affirming your case, as you already lie to yourself in thinking that an absolute truth exists.

>>6763831
>my definition is retarded? what definition? I don't remember defining intelligence.
>Can we all agree that intelligence is the capacity to perceive the truth?
Nothing retarded here.

>is literally defining truth
No, I'm saying YOU value truth. That's not a definition. I mean you, in particular, "you" can't be generalized.

>the samefag is real.
No one is pretending this isn't true. Good job being so fucking clever though. Mensa is waiting with their free fedora and copy of the Sokal paper.

>>6763815
>>6763831
>>6763837

you're both shit-flinging now. None of it is sticking.

>>6763842
Sure, I'm shit-flinging. What's your point?

>>6763846
no one ever reaches any kind of truth through shit-flinging. Take a deep breath and put your egos aside and have a discussion.

>>6763837
I'm not OP?

>>6763852
that's the issue though. Ego against truth.

>>6763837
>Mensa is waiting with their free fedora and copy of the Sokal paper.

fookin' keek m8

>>6763852
Part of my whole point is this "truth as criterion of good/meaningful/whatever discussion" meme is stupid.

>>6763857
Oh, so you're just here to defend truth?

>>6763860
narrow definition of truth and made-up idea that a perception of one's self must be against it, for some reason.

>>6763860
"Truth" is as elusive as an understanding of quantum physics.

It's literally impossible to make sense of except in a very primitive, uncritical way.

>>6763860
precisely. as i have said previously: >>6763457

Ego destroys truth. History has shown us that. It is written by the winner. By the one who wants the ego massage. Ego stands in the way of intelligence. Ego stands in the way of balanced understanding of the world.

>>6763868
>Ego stands in the way of intelligence. Ego stands in the way of balanced understanding of the world.
lmfao

"The truth-seeker realizes that all ego, which displaces truth, is just ego-seeking, which sets him apart and superior to others. Ah! What would one do without the egoless truth seeker!"

This is the equivalent of humblebragging. You conceited fuck.

>>6763863
exactly. you don't need evidence to develop ideas worth pursuing. without ideas there are no projects.

>>6763874
no one is without ego. Did I say that I didn't have one, anywhere? Anywhere at all?

Did I imply that I had even attempted to go down that path?

Am i not anonymous?

I believe that if we all discussed things anonymously...you know like this site is supposed to be... there would be a greater potential to reach absolute truths if it were possible or if such a thing existed.

>>6763891
> there would be a greater potential to reach absolute truths if it were possible or if such a thing existed.

Okay, well then absolute truths must not be very good.

Also, you fail to see the irony in how conceited and egotistical every remark you make is. "I discovered the secret to life! Ego is to blame! I have it solved!"

You're the worst sort of person. You're the priestly moral class to Nietzsche.

>truth exists
Fuck off back to Cambridge, you privileged twit.

>>6763895
>Okay, well then absolute truths must not be very good.
develop

>I discovered the secret to life! Ego is to blame! I have it solved!
tell me how i'm wrong

>You're the worst sort of person. You're the priestly moral class to Nietzsche.
worse than someone who lets his anger get in the way of developing an argument?

>>6763831
ONE TRUTH TO RULE THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM

>>6763910
>tell me how i'm wrong
I'm much too humble to have a pretense to Truth.

>worse than someone who lets his anger get in the way of developing an argument?
I'm driven by ego: sorry, I'm too noble to be a Truth-seeker like you.

>>6763914
>capitalising 'truth'
Easiest way to spot a pseud.

>>6763874
God is without ego, what he said is true

>>6763918
I have been trolled by the mememaster

>>6763920
PPPPPPPPPBBBBBBBBBBBBB

>>6763914
kek

Ok, let's try a different angle. Ego is indeed behind every argument, how about authority in the literary sense? (which is what I meant by feeding egos, sorry for not clarifying) If more people discussed their views in anonymous forums, feeding their egos in a none butthurt fashion and received no credit... would more truths be achieved?

>>6763920
kek God is all fucking ego. Takes credit for literally everything.

>>6763914
THERE IS ONE TRUTH, IT IS THE GOD YAWEH, ALLAH, ALSAN, ERU ILLUVITAR, BINKO BLONGO BUMBEEGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. PUNY MORTAL DENY THY GOD AND DENY SALVATION, GREEDY DWARF, STINKY GOBLIN, UGLY GREMLIN, FLOPPY BEENUT GO BACK INTO THE ABYSS THE INFINITE KINGDOM OF THE LORD HASN'T LAID YOU A TABLE SPACE, YOU ARE BARRED ETERNALLY.

>>6763929
kek you have no comprehension of God, that's why you deny him

>>6763934
'Hey Adam, hey Eve, check out this garden I made you in this universe I created.' 'better start fucking enjoying it and praise me by licking my balls.'

>>6763940
double kek, you clearly haven't thought about god for more than a second, your opinion serves only to satisfy your ego.

>>6763926
No

>>6763949
it certainly did. I chuckled to myself for a good long while.

>>6763954
why?

>>6763964
yes you will be chuckling to yourself for ever, alone in the abyss of scepticism and non-being

>>6763972
hey, I like my abyss. Existing in chaos seems more reasonable than a fabrication.

>>6763964
>why?
Evidence: this very thread.

>>6763995
I dunno, there are some gems in here. Got to do a lot of sifting though. But here's a test, pick your favourite post and it can't be your own. One that you think answers the original question the best... then explain why.

>>6763998
impossible, all of you are equally retarded to me. my posts are the only good ones.

>>6763979
read the last battle by C.S.Lewis it will take like an hour.

>>6764001
is that the absolute truth, anon?

>>6764024
sure, why not?

>>6763350
the only truth is that OP is anything but intelligent

>>6764050
The absolute truth is that once again OP is a faggot.

>>6764073
dam son

>>6764008
are you trying to set me up for an existential crisis anon?

>>6764080
No, I am a vessel for god enlightening you with your intelligence

>>6764104
you're a vessel for priest penis

>>6763641
>>6763657
>>6763686

Truth, by definition, is only one.
It is simply NOT POSSIBLE to exist more than one truth.

It's self contradiction.

>>6764073
Actually, I think it's an axiom.

>>6763350
>Intelligence is one's ability to retain knowledge and apply it creatively

/thread

>>6763350
Truth is convertible with Being, which is convertible with Good

>>6765852
>being
>good
isn't that intrinsically subjective?

>>6765978
nah

>>6765978
>implying subjectivity can be intrinsic

>>6763350
No. I'd rather say intelligence is the ability to, with imperfect or sparse knowledge, infer correctly.

>>6763350
No. It's about the ability to navigate complex ideas. There are intelligent people who believe very stupid things. They are able to navigate their own little maze of obscurantist or fantastic garbage.

>>6763378
No you can't argue that because it doesn't

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/Nietzsche/Truth_and_Lie_in_an_Extra-Moral_Sense.htm

the intellects purpose is simulation and creation of metaphors, truth exists only from a perspective influenced by human interest

"Man was created by Nature in order to explore it. As he approaches Truth he is fated to Knowledge. All the rest is bullshit."