/lit/ - Literature

Why bother? Just kick his ass and name-call.

you change your opinion because he's right

>>6758181

This is the answer.

What IS art anon?

You send him photos of elderly musicians.

>>6758181
>>6758184
>>>/v/

Inauthentic pseudo intellectual pieces of shit. No video game will ever equate to a symphony, a novel, or a film.

>>6758170
Defy him to find a game where the art part comes from the parts unique to the medium (the mechanics, like chess having its rules) and you couldn't simply extract the artsy bits into a novel or film.

Metal Gear Solid is an excellent example of a game that is somewhat 'artful' but would totally be so in the same respect if you entirely removed the actual gameplay.

Game narrative can be art--but its rare that you could achieve the same things artistically in strictly film or lit, therin the medium itself adds nothing.

>>6758202
*couldn't on that last sentence.

>>6758170

define "art"

define "authentic art"

seriously, once you give a good definition of this, the rest comes easily.

>>6758170

>>6758202
this, but I'd add that games, like capeshit blockbusters, are made to sell.

>>6758209
I never understood why Quentin thought he was superior because he read a high school core novel

>>6758170

Show us your art faggot.

>>6758213

because he was an obvious troll

it's amazing that people are still baiting by his pictures. he must be doing something right, I guess.

>>6758181
>>6758184

>>6758213

Quentin was the troll all other trolls aspired to be. I miss that little shit sometimes.

video games are fun for like 10 min max then it gets boring
tfw can't be so easily entertained

>>6758221
This one never ceases to rile up stoners

>>6758170
Read both Kant´s and posterior romanticism philosophers ideas on Beautiful arts and Mechanical arts. Explain them in an understandable fashion.

>>6758202
>Metal Gear Solid is an excellent example of a game that is somewhat 'artful' but would totally be so in the same respect if you entirely removed the actual gameplay.

yeah MGS has probably come the closest to being an "art-game" with its clever subversion/twists on conventional game design, wacky metafictional plot etc, and it does it all with such a strange blend of sincerity and irony that gives it charm. unfortunately, most games created with the intention of being "art" are usually just pretentious, focusing all of their energies on everything but the actual gameplay.
for the most part I think video games are best when they're just trying to be fucking video games.

>>6758170
nigga I dunno
I never understood why people think when something is art it must be good
Like The Fault of our Stars by john fucking green.
It's literature. It's shit but it's still literature.
Maybe that's the case of games.

>>6758226
What happened to him? Didn't he go to prison?

>>6758243
Same here. If you want to make art write a book or something, not a bunch of A* algorithms.

I love the games I love because they have Great gameplay, not because their half baked narratives blew my fucking brains

>>6758237
Actually, I did do this once. Another time I was curious and told another person arguing games were art about sartre's concept of authenticity. Both people told me I was parroting hipsters.

>>6758170

>>6758269
>you will never be as good as quentin when it comes to trolling
fug

What do you have against art, hombre?

>>6758276

>>6758269
Holy shit, Quentin was good on so many aspects, everything, from his choice of pretentious high schooler language to the watermark is just masterful

>>6758261
Oh woe! The opinions of the ignorant.

Seriously though, I´ve been in the same position. I play videogames and I had the boldness to express to my friends who play aswell precisely that videogames arent a beautiful art (precisely when they were talking about the art status of videogames according to them) by arguing with such authors, the response was full of anger and dissaproval, and I quote, "for taking opinions from dead men blinded by God (these friends are extreme tippers) seriously" all of this as an amalgamation of their vacuos understanding of the topic and their anger for being called on how their entertainmenet isnt art.

Stop arguing with children.

This butthurt about video games is becoming a meme.

I once had a Stem friend who said video games and math were art.
It got pretty heated.

Well i think that if you think that every book is art just because its written in pages. And i mean really shitty books with a predicable plot and bad characters, then you'll never be able to see all the things that a world full with so many stories that really diserves to be told could offer to you people. I mean, its not that MGS saga was THE only one who serves as an example videogames in THE art field, games like ICO, Shadow of the colossus, Journey or flower could vive and interesting point of view.

>>6758303
>in a few decades Quentin's comics will be recognized for the genius it is
>trolling majors will spend entire graduate theses dissecting and deconstructing Quentin's comics
>Quentinian trolling will be a recognized and respected discipline
>Your ultra-rare Pepe will barely get a casual mention in an undergrad's shitty one-nighter essay

feelsbadman

>>6758235
Which is funny since he's also a stoner.

>>6758269
This is the same mentality with /lit/'s obsession with difficult novels.

>>6758170

Concede that video games are art. Now bring up that pornography, technically, is also art. Bring up how comics began around the 30s and only in the 70s and 80s did people start taking it seriously (I know /lit/ is going to be buttblasted that I said comics are art).

As an aside, I hate that it's become unacceptable to have fun playing games like Ace Attorney and Planescape: Torment because of /v/'s eternal butthurt over video games not being art.

>>6758170
Yet there's nothing like finishing Shadow of the Colossus for the first time.

Video games aren't art.

But something not being art doesn't mean it's bad, and something being art doesn't mean it's good.

Hotline Miami, Chrono Trigger, Planescape are all great. But none of them are art.
The Fault in Our Stars, Game of Thrones, are shit and still art.

Videogames are art. They just aren't good art.

>>6758269
you missed my personal fav

>>6758170
I'd qualify anything as "art" but not everything is worthwhile "art." Most games aren't worth analyzing because they're painfully obvious thematically or with their imagery, control suggestions, etc. You can do it, but most people implicitly understand the ideas presented in most games.

All of the above said I'd also say that a lot of novels aren't really worth thinking hard about for the same reason. There are many more books and poems worth spending time on than video games but there are a lot of stinkers that aren't going to withstand much analysis.

>>6758198
r u trying to tell me that all films are inherently better than all video games?
to you The Mask with Jim Carrey is a superior piece of art to Super Mario Brothers?
shitty false opinion tbh

>>6758397
>The Mask with Jim Carrey is a superior piece of art to Super Mario Brothers?
In that specific case it is.

>>6758202
Antichamber.

as someone who plays video games and reads books (as i suspect many people here do), it really comes down to your definitions of art and authenticity. there are gonna be dumb people out there comparing skyrim to the ring cycle or the once and future king, but those people are dumb anyway and arguing with them is like trying to stop the tide from coming in. i consider video games a nascent art form, given that they are incredibly young as a medium, but really, it all comes down to perspective.

>>6758388

>>6758397
yep

>>6758397
>to you The Mask with Jim Carrey is a superior piece of art to Super Mario Brothers?
Yes, it genuinely is

>>6758198
>authentic
please explain how this is a meaningful judgement, or even something you can define in a satisfactory way with respect to art

>>6758324

>>6758324
>caring about rare pepes
>not fighting the struggle to liberate all pepes

here, I've made this, feel free to share it, comrade

>>6758202
this is done all the time

http://hcsoftware.sourceforge.net/passage/
http://thatgamecompany.com/games/journey/
http://www.increpare.com/

>>6758202
Deus Ex is also an example.

>>6758405
this, sadly with games the developers have to comply a set of unspoken rules of what people expect from games, unlike literature and is something that stops them of triying new things.

>>6758400
>>6758407
>>6758409
to u guys, Digimon: The Movie and the children's picture book Shrek and Fiona Teach Shapes are both superior pieces of art to the first Sonic the Hedgehog on Sega Genesis?!?!?! wow!! that's so wrong and dumb!

>>6758224
more like east COCKer amirite???

>>6758433
Digimon: The Movie is perfect, but it's not art because it's anime, not film

>>6758181
>>6758184
When you appreciate a painting or a book, be it non-fiction or fiction, you will always learn something from it that you will be able to reproduce.

When you play a video game, you will always merely be a consumer; everybody knows you won't use your experience in video gaming to create new games, but merely keep playing them to tickle your neurotransmitters.

Plus, video games are genre works by definition.

>>6758433
>Sonic the Hedgehog on Sega Genesis?!?!?
Even Son of the Mask was a more significant work of art than the original Sonic.

>>6758478
But you're also just a consumer. You haven't made any movies, you haven't written any novels.

>>6758485
>implying I'm not Thomas Pynchon

>>6758493
Your post is too brief and unclotted.

This thread is cancerous. You're holding back society. Rethink your life.

I think video games can be art because I get to customize my own spooks.

>>6758198

this is exactly what people said about film a hundred years ago.

>implying video games aren't the only art that matters, the conclusion of the spectacle
Complexity and immersion are what make great art, and these are PRECISELY what video games stand out in.

Read some Alex Kierkegaard, people. All of this has already been thought out by people much smarter than you.
http://culture.vg/features/art-theory/on-the-genealogy-of-art-games.html

>>6758202

games allow the player to encounter the story through experiences they control, and become totally immersed in the story. Moments like when you leave Vault 101 in Fallout 3 or battle a Big Daddy for the first time in Bioshock wouldn't feel the same if you were watching somebody else act them out on screen or were reading about them in a novel. They could be replicated in other mediums, but they would be inferior experiences.

>>6758548
There's a correlation between people who enjoy stimuli based entertainment with people suffering from autism.

You most likely have autism, and therefore cannot accurately judge or critique empathy based arts like film and literature

>>6758548
>Call of Duty is more important than Ulysses and Wild Strawberries

I bit the b8

>>6758559
How's all that ressentiment treating you, fagot? No amount of wailing about "empathy" will change the slave genes you were born with.

>>6758202
>Defy him to find a game where the art part comes from the parts unique to the medium

you forgot to mention how this is relevant

>>6758556
>>6758556
you could of picked better examples there

but never mind that. what i don't understand is why anyone would bother watching other people play video games. Why the fuck is this so popular. Video games are purely an interactive medium and watching others play doesn't make sense.

>>6758574

Same could be said of sports, but those are immensely popular as well. Sometimes it's fun to watch people who are vastly more skilled than you compete with each other at a game you enjoy.

>>6758556

In all honesty those examples wouldn't suffer at all as proper film adaptations. Something like discovering that Nemesis can follow you to other rooms in RE2 is a better example since it toys with the feeling of the control of the player. What separates games from other media is the interaction, but it's often ignored from the perspective of narrative, because it doesn't sell.

>>6758170
How is it not? The game developer uses their imagination and creativity to make a work that is experienced by an audience. A game has the ability to engross the player in a world of its own, and have them go through a range of emotions as the story progresses. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not art. It's art that you don't like.

Brian is looking pretty haggard.

>>6758584
im talking about the average lp youtuber. No they are definitely not better. And why would anyone to see their greasy face or listen to their stupid comments about the game

>>6758198
>No video game will ever equate to a symphony, a novel, or a film

You can put a symphony, a novel, or a film into a video game. In fact you could put all of them into one.

>>6758567

>>6758585

I think the better example of the two I gave is emerging from the vault in Fallout 3. After spending the first twenty minutes of the game in a cramped vault that looked like any corridor shooter of the time you finally escape into the Wasteland and are greeted with that enormous vista. It would be a good moment in a film, but the knowledge that you're going to be spending hundreds of hours personally exploring every house and ruined building and abandoned town on the horizon gives it a depth that you just couldn't get from any other medium.

>>6758595


Well I can't defend that, but only preteens actually watch those videos for entertainment. I've used such videos to learn how to play open ended games before, i.e. Minecraft

>>6758584
somewhat related, but are sports art? are board games art?

>>6758619
No, but they also do not attempt to establish a narrative, which many video games do.

>>6758619

whether or not people enjoy watching something doesn't qualify it as art. You don't "watch" a novel either. Games are meant to be played.

I think that MGS5 might be the last shot in a very long time to legitimate games as art. It's either a very good hit into what games could be if the boundries are pushed, but it's only dreams, at most the game will keep the good meta-narrative it always had and maybe add more of a philosophical tone to it (just as MGS2 did).

If you asked me what is the most artsy game I played, that would be MGS2 or Ico, but I don't quite get the vibes to call it art (not that I am an authority or anything). Spec Ops didn't quite feel like a work of art, although the scene where you bomb civillians was very 'emotional'.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of indie dev's that try to make games that are artsy, but they don't have the resources Kojima did to push all the game to the point of tricking hyped fans like MGS2. I wish big dev's had the balls to make a good proyect of art, but game as a medium, more than any other I belive, is constrained by money.

"Art" is a label appended on shitty video games to make them seem appealing to pretentious idiots.

Same with literature

>he thinks the vidya can't be art

I bet you think continental philosophy has any sort of intellectual merit

>>6758633
The Last Guardian is not dead. Have hope.

>>6758198
>implying you know SHIT about symphonies and aren't just parroting the word

>>6758650

>conflating two completely disparate points

You have angst'd yourself into a cul-de-sac of confusion.

>>6758650
Only a continental philosopher would look for the valid aspects of video games

They're not scientific, so why would an analytic care?

>>6758650
>>6758734

lol youtried/10

>authentic art
Pure ideology

>>6758589
>a world of his own.
Precisely that's why it's not art, art it's the objectivity of Will.

>>6758889
forgot pic

>>6758889
>>6758895
are you drunk?

Some vidyas kickass in how artistic they are

>>6759010

>>6759031
Down to play with letters?

We don't need games for U and I to lovingly create together

>>6758351
>comics began around the 30s
Comics have been around since the 1800's

>>6758170

Video games are art.

But they're also shit art because most of it is consumerist trash.