/lit/ - Literature

Couple questions. This is from the reading from two days ago but I haven't been around my computer. Is USS Millicent a muslim? She says Kismet at one point which mean will of Allah or something IIRC. Next what the fuck does Kertwang mean? Is it just a way of saying cheating?

>>6738409
I loved the monologue in the garage

Reminded me of my own drunken father ranting and going off on tangents

Might sound dumb, but one of my goals is to eventually try to make most of JOIs films in the real world, and even though it'll come out silly I feel like I'd enjoy making this one because it would provide a catharsis for me in a way what with my own dad and his rants and all.

>>6738739
Yeah kertwanging is just cheating, unless you mean what they are specifically talking about w/r/t kertwanging, and then it's the opponent calling returns or lobs as out of bounds when they aren't.

>>6738808
I think someone already tried to do that and the results are on youtube.

>>6738838
Damnit


Well I'm not going to watch their version and just go off of how I view them in my head.

>>6738409
What was your favorite selection of James' filmography? I think as of yore was the funniest

>>6738409
Why is Michael Pemulis so based?

>>6738930
He has the face of a lizard

>>6738954
He sells urine in visine bottles out of a hot dog tub

I have no idea what is going on in the yrstruly section.

>>6739214
yrstruly, C, and poor tony are drug addicts trying to score some heroin.

>>6739225
And Wo gave them Laced shit because Poor Tony ripped off Wo through another contact?

>>6739214
they are nigger drug addicts in Boston and one of them dies. The end

>>6739243
Yeah.

>>6739253
I hate Poor Tony

Damn tranny

guys if I start now can I catch up

>>6739275
It depends on how fast you read. You can catch up if you read 50+ pages a day

>>6739214
One of my absolute favorite sections in the book. The language is annoying, I really wish it had been written in a regular narrative voice, but try not to just skim over it because the language is off-putting.

>>6739318
I don't have any problems with how it's written. It's supposed to be from the perspective of an uneducated junkie and it does a decent job of capturing that sort of tone.

>>6739347
The only part that's annoying is that literally no one talks like that.

I guess you could say he made up his own lingo but it's still pretty ridiculous

>>6739359
black do

>>6738808
>>6738838
>>6738846
Don't watch Infinite Jest, you'll give them what they want.

>>6739374
That isn't what Ebonics sounds like

>>6739374
You're thinking of Wardine be cry.

>>6739359
It depends on where you live. I've heard people in the projects and other shitty inner city areas talking like that (minus the DFW-specific lingo).

>>6739382
>wardine be cry

oh god, was the point of that section merely to introduce Roy Tony??

>>6739383
>this guy knows the lower class
but it isn't race specific but yes, aside from the DFW slang, people do talk like this

>>6739640
I don't know yet I'm only 100 pages ahead of Infinite Summer on my first read.

>>6739652
>100 pages ahead of Infinite Summer
the queer john green one or the queer /lit/ one??

i'm on pg. 528 and jesus am i just struggling to keep going

>>6739662
The /lit/ one, I'm on page like 250 or so. I don't read it super often, though. I'm not struggling to continue or anything, I actually enjoy reading it a lot, I just have no conviction.

Bridget C. Boone is best girl

>>6739676
the only part i'm actually enjoying is the marathe/steeply scenes...the gately stuff and joelle stuff is okay and the ETA scenes where pemulis is prominent are decent but the rest i'm finding tedious

>>6739697
I don't know, for me everything has a quirkiness about it that I enjoy. There's not been a scene yet where I felt like I may have zoned out any, except maybe some of JOI's filmography. I saw how some of them are important to the plot but others I just kinda... forgot?

>>6739662
i'm on my reread and both times I've found the book to really drag in its mid section. keep going. if you've enjoyed it at its heights it will pull back up and deliver for you

300-500 is possibly the low point (despite containing some great passages)

at least you've got lenz' arc coming up

>>6739728
yeah, imma keep going for the sake of having already invested so much time into it but this is the first time my non-fic read (i always read a fic and non-fic book) is better than the fic
>psychopathia sexualis

>>6739715
it's not terrible, as much of the shitposting here would lead one to believe, but the prose and his execution aren't much to my taste

>>6739745
To each his own I suppose.

>>6739715
JOI's films are some of my favorite parts

>>6739819
I liked a lot of them, but there's a few that went over my head I guess. I'll probably appreciate them more on the re-read because I noticed the connections to the plot some (all?) of them have.

Anyone notice that the one of the recovering addicts (the one who talked about the guy with the harelip) was mentioned earlier in the book? His wife, Mildred (or was it Milicent?) is that girl he fell in love with in middle school and finally won her over after being cucked.

Really liked the drunken dad speech as well. I love all the very pensive monologues in this book.

>>6739844
That would be Bruce Green and Mildred Bonk, Mildred being the one who Ken Erdedy was waiting for with the weed she presumably got from Tommy Doocey.

>>6739285
learn to math

>>6739885

Hey, was the fact that Erdedy was waiting for Mildred even revealed yet? C'mon man, that's spoiler.

>>6739966
Well, maybe. A pretty harmless spoiler all things considered. It's not like these things are ever made blatantly obvious, ever brought to attention, or even important in the narrative at large.

http://strawpoll.me/4744567

http://strawpoll.me/4625366

!! Spoiler Warning !!

http://strawpoll.me/4625366

helen is best girl

>tfw all confused after [circa p700 spoilers]DFW suddenly decides to make it so we don't know which copy is where, after I could keep ''track'' of it easily during previous ~50 pages

I really want to find a director who makes movies like JOI's experimental stuff. Maybe they just wouldn't work in reality the way they do when described. Sort of like Borges' books.

>>6738808
many have been adapted already (they suck)

>>6739844
Clenette is also one of the ennet house people, who was the 'i am gone have a child' person from the Wardine be cry section earlier

>>6740508
a prev infinite summer thread mentioned some possible similar filmmakers

>>6740508
The descriptions of his movies are based on the sorts of things that have actually been done in art films. Watch Eraserhead, Tetsuo the Iron Man, Begotten, Der Todesking, The act of seeing, etc.

Is it normal that I'm at page 400-something and that the movie from the title hasn't really been mentioned that much?
I'm starting to fear I might have missed it.

>>6741194
no they usually use a euphemism

"the entertainment", "the tape", "the samizdat" etc.

What is the deal with the recurring spider imagery? Any meaning or just due to JOIs dads problem with them?

>>6741226
Some of the AA stuff is mostly real, so spiders mentioned @ AA are kind of a coincidence

But there are, obviously, some deeper and more complex theories about it out there

So is Hal's downward spiral from page 500 and on (culminating in the opening scene) related to his kicking marijuana? It may seem goofy, but marijuana withdrawals for heavy smokers can bring on serious disassociation and depersonalization and whatnot. And if Hal took the DMZ at the end of this all, it's not hard to imagine his system being fried beyond repair.

>>6742105
That's the theory that's generally agreed upon although some will try to argue for other things for some reason

>>6742722
Let me spitball something else, here.

I've heard people say dead Jim takes Peemster's DMZ at the end, I think it was in some article I read a while back, but to me it seems that someone may have dosed NR Wayne with it. This explains Wayne's freakout on the PA, Peemster's missing DMZ, yet the DMZ not being found when the ETA heads presumably searched his room for incriminating evidence (though it is admittedly probable they just didn't search the ceiling panels).

man I forgot exactly how endearing Pemulis/Mario's sections are. I really don't want to re-read this section with JOI's dad. I'll probably skim through it tomorrow I guess.

>>6739374
no Ebonics would say "Niger" plus anyway this character is [Lenz]

>>6740508
maya deren's "meshes of the afternoon"

nicholas rey's "we can't go home again"

"coming attractions"

salvador dali's "un chien andalous"

>>6743290
not even close. it's made very clear to be emil minty

>>6743293
Seconded Un Chien
Maybe The Holy Mountain, too

>>6738409
Can someone share the elegant complexity link again? I can't find it in the archive.

>>6738409
nah

>>6743290
no but if uneducated enough that's how they'd spell it

>>6738409
it's getting really good

>>6738808
I always imagine that this video would be like many of those videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc

I finally got caught up. I really liked the mentoring sessions between the upper-classmen and the younger kids. Probably my favorite section.

>>6743366
http://www.mediafire.com/download/reajlyl4md8o84l/EC.rar
Its a really big help

One more thing, how does /dfw/ think Hal and Gately's gravedigging happened? I am unsure if they went on their own accord with John Wayne or they are captured by the AFR or simply forced at gunpoint by John Wayne. I have no idea how much they would know about what's going on, and it makes me think maybe Hal didn't as he treats it quite unremarkably in his inner monologue of the opening pages - though he's clearly screwed up by then so that's not exactly a reliable clue. I just reckon, if Hal were actually captured by the AFR guys sent to ETA and some serious terrorist shit was enacted upon him and he knew the gravity of the situation, he probably wouldn't return to tennis, though maybe that explains his fucked state - trying to return to tennis after experiencing such trauma. I also don't get how Gately gets involved. When Hal is in Ennett Gately is in the hospital. I read that Hal may have met him in the hospital, when he goes for unspecified reasons in November YDAU as recalled a year later in YG, but even if Hal met Gately, how did Gately get involved in the gravedigging, I mean why would he be chosen to kidnap and put to work? None of the YDAU-YG stuff makes much sense to me, and it's annoying to think some of it may be more than ambiguous and actually flat-out unexplained, some of the most fantastical stuff in the book that is. Ohwell..

bump

>>6743670
Same, I enjoyed the part about how they learn to play subconsciously at the younger age through repitition. Would be amazing to achieve this state and be able to focus strongly on strategy. That part about the super high definition projector screen made me think about what it'll be like when 8k TVs (which are incredibly life like) become commercially viable.

I'm still thinking about JOI and his dad in the garage. I'm picking up on JOI's dad's expectations of his son. He tells him that he has no mind, no emotions, just a body. I'm pretty sure that affected JOI. He learned not to express himself. I don't see how "treating objects delicately" plays into things though. Anyone have any ideas? I see it as his dad teaching him not to stand out, and not be an independent person, instead continue to be an extension of his dad. And don't do anything that will displease his dad. "Don't be a tough guy (like Brando) because then I can't control you. Do what's best for me me me."

He's like every other parent in the book. I really think this is a huge theme of the book. Self-absorbed parents. Despite how differently parents treat their children, none can separate themselves from their children. And it damages everyone. The passage where DFW asks what qualifies as abuse brings this home for me. Abuse can be letting your child know that you won't love them if they don't use perfect grammar. It's also if you tell them they shouldn't have their own emotions. It's also if you coddle them. And if you don't coddle them.

DFW mixes examples of blatant abuse with the more subtle kind. People who have been beat or raped as children cross paths with people that come from "perfect" families, and their life experiences are similar. I think DFW asks the question is it possible to not be self-absorbed, and in turn not emotionally abuse your children. I thinks he doubts of that possibility.

>>6740442
no love for the darkness man...

you guys will come around

just about done IJ, and I'm pretty fatigued by Wallace's writing
but I was wondering what people's thoughts were on Pale King and whether I should give that a go next?

>>6746223
>just about done IJ, and I'm pretty fatigued by Wallace's writing
>but I was wondering what people's thoughts were on Pale King and whether I should give that a go next?

Well, it's not as witty, certainly, and it coheres less. I would say it is to IJ as Against the Day is to GR.

>>6746407
Is its plot on a similarly grand scale? I am kind of picturing it as more a collection of character studies from the little I know about it. Does it have a sort of 'main' plot at all?

>>6746407
It's incomplete though. Personally I never read unfinished books unless I'm obsessed with an author to the point of having to read everything they've ever written.

>>6746448

I would hesitate there is anything much along the lines of plot. It could have been cut into 70 individually-published pieces. Some of it was.

That's not to say it isn't definitely worth reading just for the writing. It's generally brilliant and occasionally transcendent.

>>6746223
Pale King is at least as good as IJ, and I fell in love with the characters way more than with IJ's characters. heartily recommend. best fiction about tedium/ennui I've read.

>>6746489

I think it's about as complete as it was ever going to be. Whether he achieved what he wanted to with it I don't know, whether making a study of boredom was worthy of his talents I reserve judgement--it's not the book I would have wanted him to write. But he does make boredom kind of fascinating and makes you consider how your own mind works.

BTW, I contacted Hachette to ask if there was anything brewing on releasing the full first manuscript version of Infinite Jest; they say that there is not. I do think this is an eventuality, though. like the O, Lost version of Look Homeward Angel. It could be that everyone in that camp is a little stung by the criticism they got for what many viewed (wrongly, I think) as 'cashing in' on TPK, as well as the (IMO) unseemly cashing in that the Rolling Stone reporter did on his tapes with the subsequent book and movie, although if I were him and I had a shoebox full of tapes worth a lot of money in the DFW trade I might not have acted much differently.

>>6746538

I can understand how someone might prefer it. I personally preferred Against the Day to Gravity's Rainbow. Many people prefer Sandinista! to London Calling. Why consensus settles on one being a high point and the other lesser is hard to say and often disputable.

>>6746566
Gravity's Rainbow is infinitely better than ATD objectively

>>6746891

Not objectively, but you are safely in the majority with your opinion.

>>6738409
I really did not like Madame Psychosis

I guess DFW was trying to make her sound deep and mysterious but she came off as a complete try hard.

>>6747363
Did you just read the part with her radio program? There's more to her whole deal than that.

>>6747424
Yeah

The show reeks of pseudo intellectualism

I really struggled through the Madame Psychosis scene for some reason but I noticed a couple interesting things:
2nd mention of 8 1/2
Footnote 61 sums up Infinite Jest (the book itself)

I also really like the little anecdote about the HELP WANTED sign

im reading one day ahead and Tiny Ewell notes that black people rarely have tattoos and the tattoos are usually white ink.

Most black people I know have tats in black ink

>>6748234
Maybe DFW didn't actually know any black people? He was really white.

>>6748234
The book's set in the future. He was predicting a trend change I guess

please enjoy this top quality fan-art

>>6749609
no police lock?

>>6749609
>face isn't deep in Millicent Kent's poontang
>no camera
>no police lock
Not much attention to detail

>>6749662
>>6749625
but it isn't mario ..

>>6749671
oh shit, I'm sorry, but in IJ-related threads, the phrase 'fan art' instantly makes me think of Mario.

>>6749662
>>6749625
That's Gately you idiots.

>>6749700
I took him as Mario because
>no big biceps

>>6749707
>>6749700
guys it was ortho..

>>6749724
I never paid much attention to him to be honest.
Alas, poor me.

Loving Gately btw

>mfw gately's mom dating Pig Bodine
Pig, you dog

Can someone please explain the statistician joke to me?

>>6747464
whats wrong with that? you actually dislike a fictional character because they are "pretentious". I thought the point was to make it seem a little that way

>>6749939
if they averaged the shots it would've killed the duck or whatever

you're talking about the darkness when his head is stuck to the window right? doesn't he explain it himself?

also what is troelscht doing in axford's room/what is the significance of it? it seems too carefully discussed to not be important. is it just that they're gay?

>>6749986
no he just says its a stats joke, hal cuts him off because he gets it

thanks though

Any Pemulis fan art?
>hat
>shirts saying weird shit
>pointy lizard facial features

>>6749993
Wasn't he the one who kept having his bed moved mysteriously? I thought it was that.

>>6750260
well I had this one too

>>6750267
it's ortho's bed that is moving, most of the paranormal shit is happening to him because presumably James is trying to possess him.

>>6739885
I don't think it's Mildred - Erdedy's pot hookup is apparently 'pretty in a faded, withered Cambridge way', which doesn't sound like her, and she only says that she knows Doocey and that he sells to Cambridge theatre types.

>>6739844
Pretty much all the apparent non sequiturs at the start of the book are backstories on Ennet House addicts - e.g. the email is from Dooney Glynn, we'll see Clenette and Roy Tony from the Wardine section again.

>>6742812
I think it's explicitly stated that Wayne took the Tenuate Troeltsch stole from Pemulis and put in a Seldane bottle - Pemulis mentions that Troeltsch was talking to Wayne at dinner, recommending him Seldane, and Troeltsch must have swapped them because (I think, but I'm not sure) Pemulis took a Seldane instead of a Tenuate ahead of his match with Freer. Peemster says his sinuses are incredibly clear but he doesn't feel stimulated.

>>6744153
Hal gets sent to the hospital because of the DMZ, which is probably where he meets Gately. It's hard to know how Hal and Gately and J."N.R."W fall in together, but it's generally thought that they're looking for the antidote (which may be an unknown film, the clipperton footage, or DMZ) and that Wayne gets his map eliminated as a result. But yeah, it's generally left unexplained.

>>6749993
I don't remember where or what it is, but I vaguely recall that the last time I read the book someone pointed me to an explanation that didn't involve any hot ginger-on-sportscaster action. It's nothing to do with the bed moving, though, that's Stice.

>>6750580
>but it's generally thought that they're looking for the antidote

I've never actually heard that theory before, if I may ask, what evidence suggests or supports it? It seems like probably the least obvious possibility to me. My interpretation is that Orin gives up the location of Himself's hidden tapes to the AFR and then either a) NR Wayne working for the AFR forces Hal to take him to Himself's grave and dig it up or b) Orin calls Hal and tells him he needs to dig it up and remove the Infinite Jest V master tape before anyone finds it, in which case Wayne's involvement is puzzling, as is Gately's in pretty much every case, except that maybe The Wraith told him he had to help or something

>>6750580
It actually does have to do with stice iirc because he's bugging the shit out of his roommate

>>6750678
but Troelscht is Pemulis' roomate

>>6750678
Coyle is Stice's roommate - that's why Stice is in the bathroom, because Coyle's discharges smell awful.

I guess my one last unanswered question that probably has a definite answer is when/under what circumstances Hal takes the DMZ. I had, over the course of my reread, been thinking he took it with Pemulis and Axford as planned, but if my timeline is not confused here, Pemulis' stash goes missing and he's expelled before they got a chance to take it on November 20 YDAU because Pemulis is expelled on November 17 YDAU. So who took his DMZ, and how did Hal end up ingesting it?

So now that the thread is full of re-reading spoilers anyway...

Did I understand correctly the bit where Lenzand Poor Tony both end up being AFR IJ VI viewing subjects? It was them, in that 1-page long section on AFRs commands, circa p820 or so, being described, yes?

>>6750671
Gately's premonition seems to suggest that they're doing it of their own choice rather than being forced to. The thing is, Orin has presumably already promoted the master cartridge from the grave long ago, so what else is in there they could be looking for? There's the Clipperton footage and the nystigmatic lenses, but not much else left in there. And, the question I always wonder about, since it makes no sense at all to me, is why Hal expected a head to be in the coffin?

Here's the relevant Gately quote: He dreams he’s with a very sad kid and they’re in a graveyard digging some dead guy’s head up and it’s really important, like Continental-Emergency important, and Gately’s the best digger but he’s wicked hungry, like irresistibly hungry, and he’s eating with both hands out of huge economy-size bags of corporate snacks so he can’t really dig, while it gets later and later and the sad kid is trying to scream at Gately that the important thing was buried in the guy’s head and to divert the Continental Emergency to start digging the guy’s head up before it’s too late"

>>6750758
Yes, it's Lenz and Poor Tony

>>6750260
that one picture that circulates here of the model rolling a joint on a book with the sailor hat reminds me of him

I've read IJ and generally liked it, I also have read theories about the 'plot', but I don't understand this: why do you even care? I have not read a single theory on how the plot works which results in anything but a pants-on-head retarded story of unnecessary complexity and nothing interesting to say

>>6750769
lel, it actually comes up when you type in Pemulis >>6750260

>>6750767
cheers

>>6750260
I've seen this posted a couple of times.

randy lenz

>>6750770
I feel the same way

>>6750746
John Wayne took the DMZ, theories on hal alternate between JOI and his toothbrush, or just a reaction from the DMZ producing mold-on-mold he ate as a child mixed with his depersonalization and stress from quitting substance abuse

[MOOT STATUS: IN TEARS]
[MOOT STATUS: IN TEARS]

Get in here everyone, and leave a message: https://master[remove]chan.org/b/thread/87034

WE WANT YOUR COOPERATION 4CHAN!!!!

>>6750770
That's because none of the threads entirely resolve and it probably also ties into the "author", JOI, being literally dead lolgeddit. It's still fun to piece together and DFW said that's just what you're supposed to do.

>>6750837
>DFW said that's just what you're supposed to do.
No shit, it's pretty obvious he wrote the whole thing in order to show the whole world what a clever boy he was! He seriously has the emotional maturity of a dog that just dropped the stick at your feet and is wagging its tail.

>>6750827
Those are such shit theories though. There has to be something more simplistic. Axford took it? Even Hal, in his depersonalization?

>>6750849
do you even know what you're danking anymore my man?

>>6750867
Didn't you notice the passages where he uses a really obscure word although a common word with the same meaning would have done fine, and two pages later he uses the obscure word again, but after that it immediately disappears from his vocabulary? It is so painfully obvious that he just learned a really clever word and is just yelling 'look ma! look at me! look at how clever I am, ma! look!.

>>6750837
> the "author", JOI

wait, he named a character Jack Off Instructions? I don't know if JOI porn was around in DFWs day, but it gives me a suspicion the whole thing is intellectual masturbation and DFW knew it and wanted you to enjoy it

>>6750900
Look up Onan and Onanism if you haven't already.

>>6750900
>>6750915
guys, sth keeps telling me that it wasn't too intended...

He wrote IJ while in a manic state. No sane artist would use such pejorative as masturbation as a key metaphor for his style.

>>6750922
>No sane artist would use such pejorative as masturbation as a key metaphor for his style.
You don't have the sensibilities of an artist if you actually believe this.

Reading Infinite Jest has actually increased my interest in tennis. Thinking of making the effort to attend Wimbledon this year...

>>6750938
I have the sensibilities of a non-tryhard non-avantgarde reserved artist, so the Wallacesque kind

inb4 'well DFW was a tryhard avantgarde pomo anti-pomo show-off hack' and stuff, I mentioned the pretentiousness of self-promotion, image and personality, not the works

Can you really imagine DFW walking around smearing feces over his body, uploading slit wrist pics to instagram and advertising his works as 'LOL masturbation'?

I can't.

>>6739359
Wasn't it a stream of consciousness thing and not someone telling the story?

>>6750947
>avantgarde porno

>>6750955
>meming

what's up with all the comparisons to lizards?

he describes john wayne as looking like a lizard while fucking avril, and he describes pemulis and bobby c as having lizard faces or lizard eyes or something

wtf

>>6750947
It's not like that. It was a sort of self-reproach on his own end. Writing a book as big as Infinite Jest and expecting people to read it is an inherently masturbatory act. There's even a quip in the book about how the title was a Shakespeare reference because that was supposed to be the less pretentious option but referring to Shakespeare is in and of itself a pretentious act.

It's not "lulz im wackin off onto paper and callin it a book lel" but an acknowledgment that he couldn't get away from what he himself saw as pretentious or masturbatory behavior no matter how hard he tried.

>>6750947
>non-tryhard
>Wallacesque
well jested!

>>6750964
DFW knew about the reptilian shapeshifters among us and was writing IJ as a warning. That's why they killed him and made it look like a suicide.

>>6750977
Well I can understandJoelle's descriptions of some of JOI's movies are 'boring' and 'hard to get into', being obvious self-reproach parallels, but this is like... I just dunno.

Anyone know about this book before they came to /lit/?

>>6751012
I saw it being pushed as a fiction bestseller/favorite in B&N before I heard about it here. Though I never actually cared enough to check it out until I saw the posts here.

>>6750778
It's meant to be him, it was part of a Vice article:

http://www.vice.com/read/phonies-0000213-v19n6?GalleryImage=52826

>>6751012
It was a favorite of a friend (though she'd only read half of it) who recommended it to me.

>>6751012
Are you kidding? It's very popular literature and a prominent piece of 1990's American popular culture. I'm sure the average American is more likely to know what Infinite Jest is than classics like War and Peace or Lolita.

>>6751167
>popular culture

>>6751012
I remember my cousin having it on his shelf when I was younger, then seeing it on /lit/ brought it back into my life. Funnily enough I saw him yesterday and he'd recently read it again.

>>6751012
I vaguely knew of it but hadn't considered reading it, and, this sounds ridiculous because it is, it showed up in a nickleback parody described as a "pretentious tome" so i googled it to laugh at the pretentious junk people read these days and then it sounded interesting so I read it and became interested in literature

>>6751167
>I'm sure the average American is more likely to know what Infinite Jest is than classics like War and Peace or Lolita.

I really doubt that. War and Peace is infamous as that one really long book and Lolita as that one pedo book. IJ is well known among certain types but not the average American.

pages 300-600 should have been waaaay edited down

600-end is brilliant and start-300 is pretty good

300-600 feels mostly like a trudge with a few great scenes throughout

>>6751612
They're not that different from the pages before them, which is probably the problem.

who is the other wraith that licks gately

>>6751693
I can't be sure but if heavy handed symbolism is in play (bazinga) that's Lyle, the guy who lives in the ETA weight room and subsists off the sweat of young ETA students.

>>6752126
but Lyle's not dead

>tfw fell behind
>tfw skipping the part with James' dad and Madame Psychosis show because you remember them and they are mostly just introductory

Worst expositional passages in the entire book aside from muh wardine imo.

>>6752185
lyle is 100% a wraith. He hovers at times, and never leaves. When he is summoned to counsel Eric Clipperton he disappears immediately because he in unaccustomed to moving and wraiths move extremely, inperceptibly fast compared to living humans

>>6753180
Holy shit, he's Lyle Bland!!

>>6753180

There's a character in The Pale King who hovers and isn't a wraith, though.

Lyle seems corporeal enough to the folks he's interfacing with and licking.

>>6738409
this book is a joke... An infinite joke

Guys, what is the T?

>>6754056
The title's actually a reference to the Yorick scene from Hamlet w/r/t the cruel irony of how Yorick, who was "a fellow of Infinite Jest" in life became a sickening reminder of mortality in death as a rotting corpse.

>>6754488
a train, like a light-rail line.

>>6754950
oh, damn, how did I even miss it.

>>6738809
I think the word is meant to be an onomatopoeia for the sound of hitting a tennis ball though.
Like: "Ker-twang"

>>6753171
I've slipped behind due to other priorities and just finished the chapter with James' dad, thought the philosophy he taught James was pretty interesting and intertwined with what Troeltsch was teaching earlier.

Didn't know Hal was a producer….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpYWiFLA11A

>>6755246
I'd say they're skippable on a reread though. Infinite Jest has a lot of segments where things are just described in exhaustive detail so you could probably skip huge chunks of the book if you were re-reading.

>>6755260
>that gross picture
>that mediocre remix of originally decent song
>that overall awful aesthetic
the guy isn't too Incandescent huh

>>6755275
You can usually tell a song is going to be shit when they've used some tumblr-esque image of a girl. Why someone would attempt to remix the master that is Burial is beyond me…

Wish there was some form of copyright to prevent someone using this name in such a blasphemous way.

are there any other fan-made interpretations of infinite jest iv/vi (the samizday/entertainment)?

https://vimeo.com/21410100

i'm so sorry.

i clicked on a picture of ice creams for this post.

>>6755335
>Wish there was some form of copyright to prevent someone using this name in such a blasphemous way.
amen.

>>6755273
I get you, when I eventually reread this book I'll probably skip such segments. Still interesting for the first read.

>>6749953
Yes that is why I dislike her

Am I the only one who imagines Mario looking like Pynchon?

Hello. I'm interested in reading Infinite Jest mostly because I'd like to read something of DFW before seeing The End of the Tour in theaters, and I've only recent had this desire. The problem is though that I'm not that well read. I'm only 18 and have pretty much only read your basic high school assigned reading books + some stuff from Latin class and a satire elective. It's not that I think I'm dumb; I excel in school and am high IQ, but I don't know if I have the literary foundation necessary to tackle Infinite Jest. Do you guys recommend I give the book a shot or wait until I've read a little bit more and see the movie once it's out of theaters? Or is it even necessary to know DFW's work before watching the movie? Sorry for interrupting the book talk, thanks.

>>6750946
I know the feel. I've started to play tennis with my friends thanks to infinite jest

>>6755273
Yeah like I don't give a shit about her edgy radio show or james' whole talk with his dad (I mean what is there to forget about the latter).
>>6754013
Does TPK contain wraiths? Lyle also never leaves the weight room and again the one time he does he disappears immediately.
>>6756385
>I'm only 18
You can probably read it but there will almost certainly be parts you won't relate to and words you don't understand.

>>6756385
Yes, go ahead. Once you get past the pleb filter it's smooth sailing. It's also not like works in the manner of Ulysses, where you'll have no idea without the correct reference frame.

>>6756436
Tennis is my favourite sport to play casually with friends tbh. Never been a big fan of football (soccer).

>>6738409
>that black and Hispanic people can be as big or bigger racists than white people, and then get even more hostile or unpleasant when this realization seems to upset you

>>6756385
You talk like Hal Incandenza. You'll be fine.

I read it in Grade 12 myself, and I didn't have any problems. And I can assure you I wasn't excelling in school and I'm not so sure about my IQ, either.

Well, the jest's finally over for me, it's been a good run. Lot of feels in those final pages, it's a shame to be leaving this world again.

>>6757031
Start over, lap the reading group, tell us your interpretation :^)

Well we finally got the schedule of years today for any newfags still playing along

I really liked the hints towards JOI in today's section

>>6738409
Oh boy I'm glad I checked /lit/ this week I bought my copy of IJ last month, I guess I'm almost at the same point as you guys (just went through the yrstruly part). And I have a lot of spare time as of lately, I'm trying to read it everyday.

Thing is my copy is the Companhia das Letras portuguese translation, I wonder if the language change makes for a big disparity of pages between you guys and me if I try to follow the schedule.

>>6757818
the pt translation is full of context errors u dun goofd

and drop the trip, faggot

>>6757818
In english as of right now we are 4 pages past the list of years which is on page 223. You could just flip around that area for reference without spoiling anythin as it is literally a list.

>>6757837
Which portuguese translation, the portuguese or brazilian one?

Trying to catch up here.

Pg 140...The poor bricklayer. That had me laughin breddy gud.

>>6757837
Seriously? Fuck, not like I would get a cheap english copy around here.

>>6757840
Wait I checked in the book I actually just read the barrel incident letter part (wtf man this and the addicted trio parts where really unexpected). What are you refering to by list of years? I skimmed further and didn't saw any list.

>>6757850
I guess it should matter since we're under the new orthographic treaty and it should unify shit et cetera.

>>6757877
*shouldn't matter

>>6757877
You are still pretty early if you just got to Hal's essays. If you liked/were surprised by that you seriously haven't seen anything yet lol. You are probably like 90 pages behind.

>>6757889
Shit.

I'm gonna try and catch up between today and tomorrow.

Ok so, does the penguin edition of this book with the tennis player qt actually exist? I don't want any other cover.

>mfw I'm only on page 129

>>6757922
No. The only English editions are the cloud cover ones and like one other one that has the title over a relatively bland image.

>>6757932
Just do ~30 pages per day and youll catch up within a week or so

>>6756385
I'm not trying to be one of those grating Ingersoll types but I'm underage and not well read but I feel like I've grasped pretty much everything so far. Understanding the vocab and references is made a lot easier by the online wiki. I feel like many of the themes are especially relevant, more so I think than if I was older.

>>6759453
This.
There's a point where the book loses part of it's appeal. A lot like the catcher in the rye, many things will seem retarded once you get too old. IJ offers more themes fit for anyone though.

Finally caught up with the rest of you. I've never had a book make me go from laughing to almost crying so quickly. The urine section was fucking hilarious.

today's scene was pretty dark

I'm at around page 410 and I imagine based on the amount of information that's been revealed in the past section that the book'll expand upon what they are properly at some point soon but I'm kind of curious to find out if I've been picturing this right:

Does E.W.D stand for explosive waste disposal or something? I've been sort of picturing them as mass drivers that blast containers/vehicles full of garbage across america into the great concavity

Also the Eschaton incident is fucking amazing

>>6760423
it's Empire Waste Disposal. They use catapults.

>>6760423
I'm not sure what it stands for, (Enfield Waste Disposal? I forget) but I'm pretty sure it's been said by page ~400 that they catapult waste into the concavity. I'm fairly certain they're talking literal catapults, but I suppose that could just be slang or something.

>>6761468
>>6760926
ah right, yeah I remember catapults being mentioned now

I seem to recall the objects they hurl being referred to as vehicles, that rather threw me off when I was picturing them

christ I'm bad at keeping track of details

I'm a bit behind (on the description of the different rehab houses) I like the subtlety Wallace creates, the school is placed up high on a hill, with all the different ways a person can be fucked up below. The term 'shit flows downhill' is apt here, seeing as one of the book's main themes is childhood trauma.

I could also see the different rehab houses pranks and shenanigans written by Palahnuik.

Would it be too difficult to read this and Gravity's Rainbow at the same time/ How long did Gravity's Rainbow take you if you've read it?

i feel like im too behind to catch up, and i dont own the book, whens the next /lit/ book club?

>>6762133
GR took me 2 months, and it's a much better book and written very differently. Pynchon challenges his reader with poetic, beautiful prose and mystical imagery. Large parts of infinite jest are basically reprints of a Merck manual, technical jargon included. GR also has a very large cast of characters who are all very unique, memorable and strange, but I would think GR alone is hard to pair with any other fiction book you're reading. It was the only thing I was reading at the time (something I rarely do) and to read it attentively and get anything out of it, it took me 2 months.

>>6762131
Height or elevation works as a good signifier for the scope of the three plots, with ETA overlooking Ennet House, and Marathe and Steeply overlooking a whole landscape

I fell a little bit behind, forgot how much I enjoyed Joelle's walk. Also all of dat foreshadowing and unexplained plot. JOI and TPGOAT are my favorite characters tbh. I like the 2d display of the wheelchair guy with a blank video, the description of the crack dealers, and the black guy tipping his fedora espescially. Time for today's section I guess.
>>6762133
I read GR in 7 weeks baked AF and read two other books but they were like Invisble Cities and some novella. I wouldn't recommend doing these two at once if its your first read through.

>>6762133
two completely different writing styles. i don't really think they should be read at the same time, you grow such a relationship with the books as a whole and i think you might miss some of that if you're juggling between two books. IJ is not a difficult read, no difficult language or concepts whereas GR can be incredibly complex and very easy to lose track of a thought from page to page. just take your time and read them separately, you'll enjoy them a lot more that way.

>>6762133
Gravity's Rainbow took me four months on and off, Infinite Jest has taken me ~3 weeks both times. Gravity's Rainbow is far denser, more convoluted, and in my opinion, intelligent, and rewarding. I think trying to read GR alongside any other book is a bad idea, so choosing something that's moderately complex in itself (Infinite Jest) seems like a terrible idea. You will not only have trouble understanding GR, but you'll almost certainly miss the subtleties of Infinite Jest.

Really, it's just a moronic idea in general.

The 270-283 reading was really comfy.

Did Wallace have experiences with drug addiction and rehab?

>>6750798
underrated post

On p.247 Hal implies there's something that happened between Lyle and JOI.
Was Lyle the name that Avril wrote on the windscreen of the car after fucking him? oh ho ho i bet i'm right

>>6762133
It took me about a month to read. I wouldn't recommend reading anything as long or involved as Infinite Jest concurrently with it. If you want to read other things at the same time it's better to stick to short or simple books.

>>6764182
Oh wait nevermind
It was CT wasn't it that fucking cunt
also why does CT not have the last name "Incandenza" if he's Hal's uncle

>>6764194
Just finished reading up to 258.
Something definitely was going on with Lyle and JOI to do with the creation of Infinite Jest.

Am I correct in assuming that Avril the whore fucked CT because 1. she's had a history of being a slut and 2. she thought JOI was fucking Joelle? Then she wrote CT's name in the condensation on the car windshield?

>>6764373
didn't mean to quote

>>6764373
OH WHAT THE FUCK I JUST REALISED THIS WHOLE BOOKS IS HAMLET
Have i done it, /lit/? Is there any point reading on?

>>6764388
no it isn't

there's definitely allusion to shakespeare but no. it's not hamlet

Any other brits reading Infinite Jest outside during this scorcher of a heat wave?

>>6756437
>Does TPK contain wraiths? Lyle also never leaves the weight room and again the one time he does he disappears immediately.

Well, there's a ghost, I guess, but the levitating guy isn't one.

It's possible that Lyle is intended to be understandable this way, as I think that DFW makes a lot of contradictory things arguable intentionally. But I don't think of Lyle as being a wraith.

>>6763495
Yeah, during his late teen years he was addicted to marijuana, like a few characters in Infinite Jest but as an adult he really struggled with addiction to prescription painkillers

His inability to go off those meds is what ultimately lead to his suicide

>>6750859
I think it says that Hal put his toothbrush in front of a vent or something and when he brushed his teeth he almost immediately experienced symptoms, so it's not too much of a crazy theory to say that JOI's ghost was in the vents after taking Pemulis' DMZ from the ceiling, I mean there's probably vents in the ceiling which led to the bathroom so he probably got there and put it on his toothbrush. I dunno, that's just what I thought

>>6764373
I think it was actually JOI that wrote on the windsheild, I think it said something like that somewhere in the book. But it wasn't even him, it was actually Orin. And Orin wrote (I think) "Joelle" on it and Avril saw that and thought it was JOI, so she fucked CT. Also Mario is probably CT's illegitimate kid considering his mom was really fucked up

I realize that I'm behind as fuck, but is three Canadians copulating on a snowmobile called a menage 'eh' trois?

>>6738409
So how does the garbage truck thing work, are they on sling shots or some shit?

Wtf

Man, I wish I coulda sat down w 1992 era dfw and had a nice long chat about writing trans characters.
Like what with the combined millicent kent's dad, poor tony, steeply shitshows he could really do with reading imogen binnie's nevada. Sucks that such a great book has to have that one super lazy tropey aspect.

I didn't realize that the medical attache recieved the tape on the same day JOI committed suicide previously
>>6765973
Nobody is portrayed flatteringly in this book. Get over yourself/pop-politics.

>>6765973
Millicent Kent's Dad and Poor Tony are cross-dressers, and Poor Tony is gay. Steeply is a poorly disguised secret agent, that's like calling Hunter Gathers trans.

Man the scene where JOI's father is talking to him is great. Went from father-and-son talk to hit me personally to fuck me up a lot at the end.

>>6765557
Wondering that too

Today's read was really enjoyably light

It felt suitably ominous hearing Orin talking about his wheelchair stalkers, and I forgot both of the punchlines to the grief therapist section

>>6764388
That's one of a couple framing devices but only works for parts of the plot, it's a good way to get more out of it but don't read too much into it

>>6766096
Holy shit good catch

I'm amazed on rereading how small the actual time frame of most of the events are, it really feels like he's capturing all of the characters at almost the same moment

Also does anyone else picture Avril as Betty Draper?

>>6765973
>the book should pander to my idea of how trans/cding people are
you're at it again, tumblr

>>6766096
Being that it's April Fools day, I'd say it's quite appropriate for Infinite Jest

>>6765973
They're crossdressers, not trans. Learn to read idiot.

does anyone else kind of not give a shit about Gately? i just have a hard time feeling anything towards him at all, even at the end with the whole hospital scene, wraith visit, memories, etc.

why would you kill yourself with a microwave. Despite the fact that is seems incredibly inconvenient it seem like that would be excruciatingly painful as well

>>6738959
Urine Trouble? Heheh, urine luck!

>>6739214
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S75Wty6nXxk

7:06:25

has one of the best audiobook readers
and everything like that

>>6767193

He's the most noble character in the book, IMO.

>>6739374
>>6739380
Was I the only one that thought they weren't, like, black people? In fact I'm pretty certain they weren't black people, given the way 'yrstruly' was stereotyping the 'Nigers" in the playground.
I got the sense that the language was derived from poor french ghetto speak, like maybe they're immigrants/refugees from Quebec ghettos where shit be goin down. The 'Wardine be cry' thing is super reminiscent of Cajun speak.

>>6767514
I thought only tony was black

>mfw i realized that CT's inaugural speech reflected Hal's essay's part on the postmodern hero perfectly

Ok guys, I just finished and I'm going to steal one post to ask someone who remembers it all really well:
Did JOI kill himself or was it Avril? Or was it Avril but JOI wanted to demap the master copy ANYWAY? Or is it even left as one of the most ambiguous ones? Considering that diggings/Orin/DMZ can be pretty much figured out

>>6768322
Also, another thing, also to re-readers, if you don't mind:
JOI mentions having anti-entertainment cartridge in his skull @ p31, so in Y.T.M.P... How does that cartridge exist already back then?

>>6768322
I don't think they do leave it so ambiguous. Joelle claims it was his alcoholism. Between that and the murder he commits (the attache) and possibly the desire to destroy the master tape you have a few reasons, doesn't necessarily matter "which"

>>6768409
I'm not good with chronology, but as far as the anti entertainment goes I'm pretty certain it's meant to be a sort of myth and JOI is responding to rumors or whatever there, sarcastically or something, again, it's left ambiguous, but I never saw anything in the book pointing towards the anti entertainment being real

>>6738409
What day are we on?

>>6768830
Yea, I do remember Joelle's explaination about the rumours, but at times it felt like many of the characters didn't quite know everything, Joelle included, so I was curious. Still, how does JOI mention that cartridge in his skull in Y.T.M.P.?

>>6767548
roy tony's black. poor tony's a gay crossdresser. If characters have different names (nicknames excluded) then they're likely different people.
also holy shit a lot of people have been confused as hell by the yrstruly section in these threads, if your reading comprehension is that poor you're really gonna struggle to put some plot points together later.

>>6765967

>>6761468
>>6760926

still find it weird that the projectiles are referred to as 'vehicles' though, unless they literally fire garbage trucks, which seems a tad waasteful

>>6769466
well they have a couple waste disposal methods, but yeah I don't exactly know whether they catapult dumpsters, dumptrucks, or both.
Spoilers for around page 600 [%] the reason this waste isn't really all that wasteful is that annular fusion apparently works by using the waste from fusion as fuel for a process whose waste is fuel for fusion. The Concavity/Convexity requires that more waste be periodically added to keep the cycle going. [/%]

>>6769466
well they have a couple waste disposal methods, but yeah I don't exactly know whether they catapult dumpsters, dumptrucks, or both.
Spoilers for around page 600 the reason this waste isn't really all that wasteful is that annular fusion apparently works by using the waste from fusion as fuel for a process whose waste is fuel for fusion. The Concavity/Convexity requires that more waste be periodically added to keep the cycle going.

>>6769051
>>6768830
Look at note 160. It inventories the contents of JOI's casket. The antidote-film is Mario's capture of the Clipperton suicide.

>>6769721
>The antidote-film is Mario's capture of the Clipperton suicide.

I can sort of see it, like showing how achievement through passivity instead of hard work does not bring happiness yaddyada and but so this undoes the nurturing effects of the entertainment, but it seems like quite a cheap stretch to be making and thematically a little blunt and dumb.

imo there is no antidote. i thought it was an interesting and realistic in-world rumor/red herring, born of the gossip from people like the film students at that one party

>>6769001
Day 19, pages 258-270

>>6769733
this is how I feel as well

>>6740442
>that autist clipperton getting more votes than the fucking PGOAT
Shes the realest character in the whole god damn book

>>6769755
>>6769733
Okay guys, I'm silly, I messed years up. Samizdat was indeed being produced in Y.T.M.P. and Y.T.S.D.B. And as for the antidote, I'm not sure aswell.

On the topic of The Antidote and plot ambiguities, I would just like to add, what bothers me most in this book is when the ambiguities reach outside of the fun scifi plot, and actually end up affecting the very human aspects of the book like Hal's character arc. Because we don't know what happens between YDAU and YG, there is so much less we can take away thematically from the YG freakout and his character overall. Leaving holes that big leads to things like the silly wraith toothpaste theory and again contribute nothing thematically.

>>6769001
I created this for myself as the original OP seemed to have deserted the project. Could make a full version if you want?

>>6769814
how is wrath toothpaste theory 'silly' though?
Pemulis finds his stash empty.
Nobody(as in, nobody physical) could break in there.
It had to be some wraith, and then Hal changes after brushing his teeth, which is also mentioned quite a few times earlier like it was going to eventually matter

>>6767221
Read about some guy that put his hand in a microwave once. Said it was the worst feeling imaginably as you feel the whole of you hand, inside and out, heating up extremely rapidly.

Those people that put cats in microwaves are so fucked up...

Hey people, I'm a Turkish guy that is studying English literature in a university. Do you think I would be able to understand this book if I bought it? I've read quite a few books in English so far and my English is pretty good, but I do not have any idea about the book's context. What do you think?

>>6769900
There's a ton of words that require you to have a dictionary on hand, unless you can figure it out from context or the root words. Also DFW tends to go on for a page or more without paragraph breaks.
But since you study English Lit and have already read books in English I say go for it.

>>6769900
It's really not that difficult. If you're studying English lit you can definitely read it, and it'll really help your vocabulary

>>6769933
Alright, thank you. I'm used to using a dictionary anyway.
>>6769941
Thank you too.

Can we do this with more books after? It's nice having a half-decent thread for once.

>>6769814
The idea is that Hal represents the robot in you, hence all the 2001 references.
The book, and its ambiguous ending, circular nature are meant for you to refelct.
Its a deeply meta-novel which without a doubt kinda fucks with traditional character arcs

>>6769952
Just make sure there are a couple determined people to spearhead it, preferably people who've already read the book

I really like this as well, /lit/ actually talking about literature

>>6769733
The antidote is the meta "answer" to the book.
Which, sure, in some ways could be argued to be suicide (notice how Clipperton's death was similar to the Wallace's own, the pale king adn all)
The fact that so many people fail to grasp DFW's intentions even when they were kinda humorously obvious and even meta-remarked on through JOI

>>6765323
Jesus christ...
people really dont get this wraith shit.
The idea is clearly stated in the JOI-Gately hospital scene that the wraiths are in all of us, the author as he wrote it and even you as you read the book, there is no real "wraith". Hes trying to trick you into thinking outside of yourself and into you relationship with the text

>>6769955
>>6769988
>>6770003


'no'

This would've been the cover for the first edition, had it been DFW's way.

>Wallace said he wanted a specific photograph of Fritz Lang directing the cast of Metropolis to be used as Infinite Jest's cover

I predict that the DMZ has something to do with Hal's behavior in the first chapter. Is this way off?

Ive also noticed that paranoia seems to be a common theme among some of the characters. Does this play a bigger part into the story later down the road?

>>6770152
''something''. Kind of. You will find out, just pay attention to detail.

And about paranoia, well, DFW is an expert. This whole work is on addictions, consciousness, all that stuff, paranoia being their inseparable aspect

>>6769733
>a cheap stretch to be making
>thematically a little blunt and dumb.

That's a pretty accurate critical precis, right there.

Considering that whatever is missing from the casket is so important that Hal screams TOO LATE at Gately, in the context of a Continental Emergency that they just failed to prevent, that the AFR is then in possession of Orin's master, that there is therefore no need to seek a master in the casket, that the AFR are in all liklihood just mopping up a loose end since they know that Steeply will catch up eventually and locate the antidote, that the AFR own and operate Rodney Tine who is prominently shown to be in charge of disseminating PSA cartridges to millions of children's show viewers who are being trained to trust only cartridges from him, it would make the most sense that what Hal and Gately failed to find in the casket was an antidote to an AFR distribution of millions of copies of IJ V in the guise of a new Fully Functional Phil PSA, which attack, unfolding as it does immediately prior to Hal's college interview in AZ, also explains the retaliation of that ultra-mach fighter flying overhead, and also explains why Glad is the final chapter.

Or something.

>>6770473
the master is missing from the casket. is all. yes?

>>6770473
And since note 160 also gives a list of suspects so obvious it could have been written on a card from the Clue board game, and since Avril is an ODC-riddled agoraphobic and Mario is barely ambulatory, a compulsive type reader who is now wondering who dug up the antidote before the AFR-abducted Hal and Gately got to the grave might do well to track down the whereabouts of Disney Leith, the only other suspect prominently flagged in the note, and whose name in that context stands out like a sore thumb, and who would be well-motivated to deliver such antidote to Avril, who is after all, his surviving boss.

You have to be careful with this book, it might kill your book club
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIuk8zIlRGA&index=217&list=LLaJKNak0qRq_AoXFBtRU38Q

>>6770507
That video went from generic to postmodern to cliche to confusing really fast

>>6770507
It's funny because it's true!

>>6770101
geez, talk about grim. I like the cloud quite a lot actually.

>>6770519
Every group (class, book club, internet forum) that attempts to discuss IJ has one inbent rage-aholic who is convinced that their obsession is more devoted than everyone else's, and will lead to the one true grail, and who disrupts and upsets the normies who just want to check their checkbox and move on to the next thing.

>>6770473
the master is what's missing ya mook. orin gives up the location to the AFR and hal, gately, wayne(?), and joelle(?), try to get there first

>>6770507
i imagine that's how steeply looks

>>6770594
>not like Agent Denise Bryson
I know Steeply is described a bit differently, namely fatter, but I feel like the whole character is direct reference to Denise from Twin Peaks, especially knowing how big a Lynch fan DFW is

>>6770617
no cuz i would fuck duchovny in any way. shape, or form. i wouldn't fuck steeply

today's reading was hard to get through

>>6770974
fuck Im just about to start it.

>>6770065
lol stay retarded.
have fun with your 100% understanding of the post-modern literature genre.

so you guys are aware that "the joke", the entertainment are a reference to the book itself right? as i said earlier, to get you think about your relationship with the text, and in a sense even God.
the fact that so many people miss this is kinda what DFW is banking on, your retardation that is.

>>6770974
>tfw blew through it because I remembered it and its a bit lame
>tfw sipping wine reading ahead for the holiday weekend where I'll fall behind
>tfw pretentions
>>6771164
I think maybe this obvious jape is just a bit more revelatory to you personally and you're attempting to be really snide about it is all.

>>6771198
Well, i am an actually intelligent person, so maybe youre right.

>>6771209
Is that why your mind is blown by something a lurker who parsed a quarter of the spoilers in this thread could have put together?

>>6771219
my mind is not blown by this, this is entry-level stuff.
the joke and the entertainment are two of the more obvious meta-references.
the sad part is most people still miss it.
The real complex stuff comes with the wraith (what it means to be haunted), the symbolism of the toothbrush, thematic circles, all of which is supposed to be kinda vague, so is understandbly easier to miss.
But still, im dissapointed autistic people seem to miss this.
i expected more.

>>6771234
there is also heavy references to 2001 that most people are just waaaaay to dumb to understand apparently.

>>6771198
>23 pages on the 4th
Damn, I should be reading ahead as well

>>6771234
I feel like this is a pretty logical conclusion to come to one you realize the book is written by JOI

Since you bring it up specifically, what do you think the symbolism of the toothbrush/teeth is? I noted in an earlier thread that I've picked up on the motif both times while reading it but don't really see why it's there

>>6771281
its about consumption, its a theme throughout, Hal's nightmare just before the DMZ hits is a very distinct visual of waste and consumption. Why do we brush our teeth? Think about it.
In this last section, DFW wants you to become aware of the book itself as sometihing youre consuming, hence the unfufilling end. Its meant to make you reflect on "entertainment", this is the joke.
Also the toothbrush was what Gately stuck up his butt and got the DA all pissed off. At the end, he forgives Gately for no apparent real reason. This is kinda what DFW is asking you to do, forgive him for wasting your time. In the beginning of the book he tricked you into thinking you were gonna get clean, but in a way you never were, hence the circular nature blah blah blah
the book is about a lot of stuff.
Actually an underrated book i think.
Its a bit too silly at times but its definitely a lot deeper than people give it credit most times.

>>6738808

Probably my favorite scene in the book.

>>6767193

Finished my first read through a while back and I tend to agree. Even during the flashback about the death of Kite I just never fucking cared.

Then again, I've never been addicted to drugs. I wouldn't say I've ever had a truly debilitating addiction to anything. I think this made it hard to relate to many of the characters.

>>6767346

Maybe so, but that didn't make him interesting IMO, except perhaps as relief from all the other characters that are shitty people.

>>6771468
Jesus you're an idiot. Fackleman. Not Kite. How could Kite die and then come back? And fuck you anyway, Gately is great

>>6769864
Thank you so much!

>>6769960
We should do gravity's rainbow for the next /lit/ reading group.

>>6771714
i second this

>>6771714
That's an obvious choice and I'd love to reread that with /lit/ but I doubt I'd be able to keep up with that and half my class readings in the fall

>>6772145
>>6772145
>>6772145