/lit/ - Literature

the hell you going on about? Even at a surface level it's understandable and fairly coherent, aside from a couple details which given your apparent level of reading comprehension I doubt you'll have spotted anyway

>>6736541

Nice b8, but I'll bite.

>I'm an avid reader.
No you're not.

>Every sentence was loaded with random, made up words.
Wolfe does not partake in neologism. Every word he uses is derived from archaic or forgotten english, latin, and greek uses.

>Expecting your reader to tag along on a ride of this magnitude demonstrates hubris of biblical proportion.
Wolfe expects his readers to be intelligent, which is why this work went over your head.

> Wolfe forces his readers to re-read every paragraph, just to decipher what's going on.
Considering Wolfe has stated (and even Severian states) that his works become better with re-reading, you clearly are not the target audience Wolfe is writing for.

> I really don't have the patience to decode what he's trying to do with this story.
So you admit you are completely unequipped to engage the text on any significant level.

> I did make it through to the end,
Don't lie. No, you didn't.

>but it reminded me of Ayn Rand in it's epic failure to achieve any coherent story.
The Story is incredibly consistent if you have any speck of reading comprehension and attention to detail.

that cover looks pretty cool

whats the book about?

>>6736627
its genre fiction so autimatically pleb-tier. go read something literary that says something about life like Wallace or Dellilo

>>6736638
nigger nigger nigger nig--- sorry my /pol/ is acting out

>>6736638
This is a meme right?

>>6736671
/lit/ is the new /s4/

>>6736671

Yes

>I hate the greatest SF series ever told

Good opinion, OP

>>6736744
that is not Dune

Random, made up words..? OP has poor vocabulary, I am thinking...

>>6736749

Kek.

Dune's fun and all, but it is nowhere near the greatest SF series. It has to contend with stuff like Foundation, BotNS, and Hyperion (the last one is shit though).

Dune's great, but it's no BotNS.

>>6736758
Hyperion aint shit. Endymion is. First two books are good shit.

I liked the story, and Gene Wolfe can definitely write, but it was trying way too hard to be obtuse.

Can anyone give me a tl;dr on what the fucking series is about? Higher-dimensional beings from another universe or the on before this one manipulate this guy to be an apollo-christ figure or something for unspecified reasons? Huh?

Hey, everyone. I read this book recently and found it enthralling. If we could just ignore OP and use this thread to talk about BofNS, that'd be swell. Already looking forward to re-reading it. I wanna read the others in the Solar cycle, too. Anyone that finished the whole damned thing? I hear the other books are quite different from BotNS, people seem to react a bit differently to them. If they'd allow me to get more intimate with that delighfully strange world, I'd probably find them worthwhile, unless theyre awful for some reason, though I doubt it.

>>6736541
>I'm an avid reader

Do you read 10 pages a day?

Srsly though. your right, it's crap. the part of /lit/ that shills for this is a bunch of plebs. woop dee doo, there's foreshadowing! that makes up for 10000 pages of shit!

>>6736876
>Can anyone give me a tl;dr on what the fucking series is about?

Surface level reading: A man is selected by 'higher beings' (the cacogens; though it's debatable if they are simply extra-terrestrial beings or some type of divine entity such as an angel or eidolon) to bring the New Sun to Urth. There are numerous failed attempts throughout the history of Urth. Each attempt winds up creating a tableau of mythology, theology, and philosophy around the character of the New Sun which in turn shapes the man's other iterations of himself. This process finally completes itself when the man is deemed worthy of bringing the New Sun to Urth in the coda, The Urth of the New Sun.

What is the series actually about? Mythology, history, identity, creation, and ultimately salvation.

That's the super tl;dr version of the series for you.

>>6737108
>plebs
>your
>using this certain word while
>your
>

What is Wolfe's best short fiction collection? Thinking of picking up Dr. Death, Starwater Strains, or Endangered Species

Spoilers ahead, did anyone else think that Agilus might be a cacogen? there's only a single line when Severian his shop where he says to Agilus ' "The ribbons that held your mask," I said. "They're still there." (Page 110) This is never mentioned again, and it seems rather incriminating

Havent read Urth of the New Sun yet, so maybe it's addressed there

>>6737185
>Endangered Species
in my opinion that one is pretty hit and miss.

>>6736541
this is poor bait

>>6736917
neither the book of the long sun nor the book of the short sun are set on urth
long sun is alright, short sun is great
neither are as good as new sun

>>6737199
I thought there was rather strong evidence for cacogens having organised the whole thing with Agia, regardless of whether she's a human bean or not

>>6737265
I considered that, but what if Agia is a cacogen as well? She made sure Severian got the Claw, brought him through the gardens where he saw the (Increate?) bush of Claws, and showed
up at pivotal moments in his pilgrammage.
Might also explain why Hethor was so enamored by her. He was a sailor between stars, and if she was exteastellar, then wouldn't she be a sort of mermaid to him? Think that would be a neat explanation, and bring another layer to the idea of space travel being like sailing.

>>6736541
>Every sentence was loaded with random, made up words
Post one.

I read the book, so I sort of know what you're talking about, but archaic words and Latin names of extinct animals are not "made up," and they never struck me as being "random" because they made sense. So I am genuinely interested in seeing one of these sentences that had you so confused.

>>6737292
that's really interesting. i like that idea.

>>6737210
Hoes does Starwater compare to Dr. Death?

>>6736638
Or Green

I've heard these books have a similar atmosphere to Dark Souls. Is that correct?

>>6737647
I haven't played much Dark Souls. I'd say they're misty like it, but not as black.

>>6737185
Dr Death has "The Hero as a Werwolf" which is my favorite story of his.

>>6737665
Does it have the same desolate loneliness?

>>6737680
Desolate: absolutely, it's a dying earth setting.
Loneliness: sometimes. (most times if you consider the narrator being lonely despite not realizing it)

>>6737647
>>6737691
the atmosphere isn't that similar. i recommended this book in that other thread you started (if you are indeed the same anon) because both the book of the new sun and dark souls have a certain weirdness to them. shit like sif, a giant wolf wielding a sword in its mouth, and the seekers for truth and penitence, which is the guild that the protagonist of the book of the new sun belongs to. new sun is set in a dying earth setting, where the sun has dimmed considerably and society has regressed to a pseudomedieval way of life. most of the areas featured in the book remind me pretty heavily of firelink shrine, overgrown and having a sense of faded splendor so far gone no one even remembers.

if you do read it, rereading is recommended. wolfe rewards careful readers and those who reread.

Can someone make a three Wolfes howling t-shirt?

>>6737904
If you're referring to a thread a few months back, yeah that was me.

I really want to read this now.

>>6737647
Kind of. The thing thats really similar is communicating important plot points through off hand remarks. Its very similar to Dark Souls' background being explained through item descriptions.

>>6737970
oh no this thread was just like two days ago
it's definitely worth reading

bump for the gene meme

I liked it and understood it for the most part (I think) :'(

>>6736758
I wouldn't argue that Hyperion is "real English teacher literature" the way BotNS is but I enjoyed it a lot, more than Foundation and Dune (at least the first one).

Has anyone else tried to read his other works? I attempted the Fifth Head of Cerberus and Soldier of the Mist and felt the way I do when reading most genre fiction, totally unlike this masterpiece.

>>6738943
i'm not sure how you could feel that way about either of those works. they're both wolfe through and through.

i guess if you have that mindset though peace would appeal to you. it's closer to a realist novel, not at all 'genre fiction', and will probably be the thing the literati will talk about, if they remember wolfe at all.

>>6738943
The Latro books are just as nuanced, though. It might be less obvious if you dont know many details about Greek history, but I'd reccomend giving it another shot. Just keep in mind how Latro's amnesia affects his perception, and that each chapter is him waking up to build his past from what he has written.

Good points and thanks for the recommendations.

>>6739141
I'll admit I stopped about 50 pages in. I felt the amnesia was too plot-devicey-like for me and I unfortunately know very little about Greek history. I haven't sold the book so there's a good chance I'll get around to it someday.

>>6738967
I'll check it out.

>>6740766
It's not so much a plot device as how the story is created. If part of BotNS relies on Severian's reliability, bias, and supposed eidectic memory, then the Latro series is built from the opposite. In my view, he sees events with an almost childish innocence, but has to rebuild his narrative everyday

>>6738943
>>6740766
While the Mist books can have an enjoyable surface level reading, so can New Sun, so you'd be missing
However, the Mist books do have some required reading. Namely, Herodotus' History
http://ultan.org.uk/some-greek-themes-in-latro/

Honestly, I think they're almost on the level on the level of New Sun, but since New Sun is universally acknowledged as his magnum opus, his other stuff isnt as thoroughly dissected.

>>6736541
>I'm an avid reader
Then where is your pepe?
>Every sentence was loaded with random, made up words.
No words are actually made up, all odd words come from latin, greek and old english.
> Expecting your reader to tag along on a ride of this magnitude demonstrates hubris of biblical proportion.
It's a sign of respect for the readers and the people he wanted to read his works have the will and interest necessary to "get it"
> Wolfe forces his readers to re-read every paragraph, just to decipher what's going on.
It's a very common thing in the 2th century literature, you know, Joyce and modernism in general, Pynchon and crew.
>I must admit, I really don't have the patience to decode what he's trying to do with this story.
Thus you admitt it isn't the story, it's your own lack of will and intellegence.
> I did make it through to the end
Who was Dorcas?
>coherent story
It's incredibly coherent, no plot holes and huge meta narratives all around.

How can you say its loaded with random made up words, are you dense?
I didn't read any further than that.

>>6737906
I'd buy one.

>>6737906

This is ironic. I just heard about this series today, went to two book stores to find it and neither had any parts of the series. Going to go to barnes and noble tonight after work, but decided to come post on /lit/ asking about this series. Turns out there is already a thread.

I'll go buy 'em tonight. Thanks guys!

>>6740884
Thanks.

>>6736541
Did you read the rules? /lit/ is for users 18 and up

>>6742501
what is going on in that picture

>>6742501
What meme is that picture based on?

>>6738943
I started reading There Are Doors and felt almost the same way. I decided I would rather finish reading Long and Short Sun before picking it up again.

>>6742832
There Are Doors is by far his worse work.

>>6742593
>>6742538
t. /int/ crossposter

>>6742832
yeah there are doors is pretty bad

>>6742871
Thank you.

>>6742871
interesting

>>6742965
I have a few /lit/ related ones. Would you like some more?

>>6742967
yeah sure
they're actually really amusing now that i understand the source

>>6742969
I lied. Sorry, that was my only /lit/ related one. I thought I had a Stirner, but I was wrong.

>>6742975
that's okay, friend

>>6742967
I made this one a while back

>>6737647
>I've heard these books have a similar atmosphere to Dark Souls. Is that correct?
It's more that it's up to you to figure out what's going on.
The giant continent eating monster is never really explained for example.

>>6743424