/lit/ - Literature

>>6713264
why is this literature

>>6713264
qualia are real

Because I don't see any need to ascribe to predetermined idelogies like a pussy nigga.

>>6713264
why doesnt the red dinosaur have any legs

But Anon, I am. I am so happy for it.

>>6713370
because he's an amputee and I'm into that and I have red dino's informed consent

>>6713264
Because pleasure only comes from a lack of it. You literally biologically cannot live a life of only pleasure, you need a full spectrum of emotions to feel fulfilled.

Opiate addicts have been trying to maximize their pleasure for centuries, and they wear their dopamine receptors out. I doubt you've ever met a truly happy dope addict.

>>6713446
hahah, I remember one of Crumb's amazon's once said to like Flakey Foont:

"Out of the pleasure comes the pain, out of the pain comes the pleasure. Got it???"

And then he mugs at the camera and says: "Outta the mouths of babes!"

because i understand why hedonism didnt work out in the first place

>>6713493
Thrill us with your acumen.

I did Molly a few days ago for the first time. Very happy I will not die without having tried it

>>6714271
What difference does it make?

>>6714282
Lots of revelations, being able to step back from your subconscious, feeling things like you never would have before. It's pretty cathartic I don't really know why people use it at clubs tho

drugz r fun

>>6713277
chekt

>>6714358
for the sake of bumping and grinding on strangers

hedonism is scum

That picture never fails to rustle my jimmies.

>>6714358
Flashing lights and weird noises feel amazing on molly that's why.

Because there's more to life than pleasure.

>>6714591
Same, mostly because it reminds me that a lot of people actually think that way.

DUDE YOUR MIND IS JUST DANK CHEMICALS LMAO

>>6714603
Like avoiding pain.

>>6714611
Pleasure is more than sex and drugs. Eating when hungry, sleeping when tired, cleaning and being clean after getting dirty. Hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, seeing nice things. Appreciation.
Or do your really prefer pain and misery?

>>6714648
>Pleasure is more than sex and drugs. Eating when hungry, sleeping when tired, cleaning and being clean after getting dirty. Hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, seeing nice things. Appreciation.
>Or do your really prefer pain and misery?
False Dichotomy. Also pleasure would be meaningless without pain and misery. The two fail to encapsulate the entire human experience.

>>6714674
It's not false, its a fucking question.
>pleasure would be meaningless without pain and misery. The two fail to encapsulate the entire human experience.
They're obviously just two examples at opposing ends of a spectrum. The OP is a cute and correct cartoon.
>"This picture never fails to rustle my jimmies" "Same" you declare. "...a lot of people actually think that way."

>Technically the only two things you enjoy =/= "The entire human experience"

So what none pleasurable things do you enjoy?

>>6713264
I am, but via the back door of delicious dew petal pink lip hypocrisy and designer ignorance.

When I consciously try to experience the most pleasure it backfires and I don't feel so good. But when my hedonism isn't as deliberate it works better.

Let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth.

>>6714688
I actually didn't mean to quote your text I just had it highlighted when I replied to the guy above.

Sorry.

>>6714699
Already been covered. Negative hedonism is the best.

>>6713498

<pedant>

This is a perfectly good variant. However, Hannibal Lecter actually says "Enthrall me with your acumen.", the "En" syllable being almost inaudible.

</pedant>

>>6714702
Oh. Okay.

>>6713264
Because, paradoxically, hedonism quickly becomes a rather joyless affair.

>>6714658
>Pleasure is more than sex and drugs. Eating when hungry, sleeping when tired, cleaning and being clean after getting dirty. Hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, seeing nice things. Appreciation. Or do your really prefer pain and misery?

I don't disagree. What rustles my jimmies is the sort of reductionism of OP's pic, nevermind the fact that it's wrong even from a neurophysiological standpoint. Where do reductionists draw the line in their simplifications? Might as well just say things are stuff, things change, or some other grand generalization that has no important implications, that removes from life all of the nuance, all of the variety, that makes it enjoyable.

Can you become a hedonist if you lack the ability to experience pleasure?

the reduction of enjoyment to those chemicals always seemed so silly to me, everything the brain does can be reduced to chemical interactions and yet the results are so various that there's no point simplificating it.
It's like limiting your understanding to the existence of exodermic reactions and trying to explain the differences between the working of a nuclear sub and an airplane.

>>6714747
No. Then again... Why would you want to be a hedonist if you don't know what pleasure is? Why would you want to do anything?

because it's a great sin

>>6713264
like what i imagine is a good amount of 4chan, I am a hedonist when i can be

i try man, i do. but it's not easy. you can't always be making yourself happy. im not willing to risk dying for hedonism either, so i'm not buying heroin (did it once in high school, not going to again)

i'd love to find acid again or coke or mdma though (maybe even dmt) but for now i'm stuck with sucking nitrous balloons (which, to be fair, i do enjoy a lot). fuck marijuana. fuck that fucking drug. i get that it's "benign" and harmless and easy and all, but.. that's a drug i just don't do. acid? sure. weed? get away from me.

not really into "sexual hedonism" though. i don't really care about fucking a girl unless I actually love her

>>6714747
What's her username? I'd like to chat with her.

>>6714734
It's a comic strip. A punchline. In it's subtle way it calls out the spooks. I can still use the word "spirit" or indulge in ghost stories, but far too many people this world still buy into them as facts.

>>6714752
>simplificating
Hehehe. Simplifying your simplificating

you do realize the only true hedonists are children because they're too dense to see the big picture. children and manchilds who don't want to grow up.

>>6714774
>caring about whether or not god exists
ITS CALLED FAITH

>>6714848
Ye w/e nerd.

>>6714838
Reductionism IS a spook.

>>6714775
>acid coke or mdma

Can't speak on coke, but look into 1P-LSD and other lysergamide analogues for acid. The MDMA experience can also be replicated with 4-FMA, 5-MAPB, and 4-HO-MET. All of this stuff is legally in a grey area and can be purchased on the clearnet.

>>6714860
No, it's ideology.

>>6714860
It's just a word for an approach as far as I know, but if you know of a church of Reductionism, I stand (sit) corrected.

>>6714845
From a point of view I suppose, but I'm a negative-hedonist who seen the big picture. I lay claim to at least another kind of "true hedonism".
"Growing up" seems a little spooky there. Name one of these "man-children" would you please.

>>6714755
>Why would you want to do anything?
Story of depression

>>6714863
yeah, i know a little bit about rc's and a little about the dark net markets stuff

maybe i'll try it, all that stuff just seems a bit overwhelming though

i thought about trying the morning glory thing to make LSD or just use for LSA

>>6714877
It's really not. Once you find a good site for *cough*/r/*cough*RCsources, its a matter of googling the drug name to learn about it. Don't fuck around with morning glory seeds like a crackhead, RCs are much better.

>>6714848
>implying the existence of God can't be proven
>implying "faith" in Scripture doesn't refer to trusting God with your everything
>implying it instead refers to the unconfirmed belief that God exists
>implying the original writers of Scripture didn't think that the fact that God exists was self evident

Fourth Way, motherfucker

>>6714895
>implying the existence of God can't be proven
But it can't.

>>6714874
*Not the guy you asked*
There is this saying that ignorance is bliss. You can enjoy something when you don't worry about anything else. I guess you can create a perfect ignorant ideology that just keeps you feeling happy in any situation. Children really like pleasant stuff so I'd have to agree that kids are true hedonists. When I was a kid I was a hedonist. I didn't care what others thought about me at all.
I didn't answer you quistion about man-children.... Oh well...

>>6714895
https://youtu.be/gNtnN_DiP3o

>>6714891
i think i'll just grow datura instead

>>6714895
>>implying the original writers of Scripture didn't think that the fact that God exists was self evident
my nigga

>>6714845

>implying that life has meaning
>mistaking patterns of human maturity for the way things "should" be, the way things are "supposed" to develop

You pretend a 'big picture' where strictly, there is none. Ironically, your animal body tricks you into this, while the hedonist also pays close attention to his own animal body. On the contrary, adults, in the course of becoming adults, are cultured to imbue their adult activities with meaning, as being part of a 'big picture'.

To the above, an exception, and a thought experiment. If by the 'big picture', something like the responsible continuation of human society is meant (particularly raising a new generation who can take over when we are old), then this small letter 'big picture' does exist, and has immediate consequences. Large groups of first-world hedonists who are intent on not procreating (and keeping their money to themselves to spend on further delights) could be said to be digging themselves an especially unpleasant hole for the latter part of their lives, as a future shortage of willing and able-bodied adults threatens to overwhelm elderly care systems. But then the responsibility for a very cynical hedonist to poop out a kid or two could be subsumed under the rubric of maximizing lifetime pleasure (a pretense of 'purpose' to one's life, via raising kids, which I might have read once also has health benefits).

But again, this is a human-specific case, and therefore uninteresting, since it is not the Real Big Picture. The Real Big Picture, properly understood, is that human endeavor isn't actually going anyplace. Everything dies, the universe marches toward heat-death, and so on. Even promised 'biological immortality' is no solution. In the face of this, your 'childish' hedonism is an intellectually defensible attitude towards life.

>>6714905
>collegehumor
>ever
I bet you laughed when you watched that you disgusting pleb.

>>6714929
>being this butthurt

>>6714915
>while the hedonist also pays close attention to his own animal body

you do know what a hedonist is, right? it's someone who only cares about satisfying their immediate impulses. you wrote a bunch a shit when you don't even know what it means to be a hedonist. look at a heroin junkie. that's a hedonist. look a kid who doesn't care and only wants the toy he'll forget about an hour later once he's out the store.

there is a "big picture." you take advantage of the world's ambiguity to deny responsibility. but the world acts with both order and chaos. otherwise conversation and the sharing of ideas wouldn't be possible.

>The Real Big Picture, properly understood, is that human endeavor isn't actually going anyplace.

with the same evidence I can say that human endeavor is going in everyplace and that all is meaningful. it's your choice unless you have some chemical imbalance happening I guess.

>>6714935
>has shit taste
>is called out
b-bet you're b-b-b-butthurt

>>6714968
>it's someone who only cares about satisfying their immediate impulses
I'm glad you fucked up so early to your post that reading the rest wasn't needed.

>>6714902
>There is this saying that ignorance is bliss.

I once heard a better saying. it goes, "ignorance is bliss until you're older."

and exactly my point about children. when you're an adult there is a term for extreme hedonism. it's called being sociopathic. the problem is that we'll end up polarizing this discussion when in reality people should be a little selfish but in no way be totally selfish. societies just don't function that way. to quote George costanza, "you know we're living in a society here!"

>>6714658
>Eating when hungry, sleeping when tired, cleaning and being clean after getting dirty.

are those really the "pleasures" that people mention when they discuss hedonism?

>>6714968

Although your colloquial definition of hedonism-as-such is incorrect, like this guy >>6714985 said, I'll bite: please favor us with your version of the small-letter big picture.

What I've learned in doing simple, straightforward nihilistic argumentation (i.e. boring to most people, but nevertheless the most accurate assessment of things), is that the ad hom of suggested derangement (like the one at the end of your post) is a VERY common thing, even for smart people to stoop to. I suspect that this is because the basic ideas, plainly stated, are so un-useful and anti-human that even people who can judge an argument on its merits instinctively recoil from the train of thought. The other part to this is that adults love what is "interesting" to them, and so the natural (but inaccurate) thing for them to do, is to dismiss simple nihilism as "juvenile". It is possible for the dull thing, to be the case. So I'll just come right out and say it.

Entropy, baby, universal heat-death. No god, it's all for nothing, you die alone, that's it. That's The Big Picture. It is reasonable, therefore, to pass the intervening time in as pleasant a manner as possible (this is what Charles Murray, another productive adult, has decried as "The Europe Syndrome", also note the association of "pleasant" with "pleasure"), which in humans implies some degree of temperance and delayed gratification. Or not, the heroin junkie thing is fine too. These both are hedonisms.

>>6715044
Depends on the maturity of the person.
These simple things are pleasures in life.

I ride past a fast food join and just smell the burgers. I never eat there, but it sure smells nice. And it was free.

hedonism is too much work, i prefer apathy

>>6715209
do you smell your girlfriends pussy and not fuck it as well?

>>6715228
I've given up fast food, not sex.

>>6715164
adults dismiss nihilism as childish because its cowardly. believing in something, in the face of uncertainty and acting upon it takes courage. nihilists are just selfish pieces of shit, humans are connected and you spread that toxic defeatism to everyone around you. people don't want to be near the depressing fedora at the party, they want to be with the people dancing.

>>6715246

Interestingly, everything written here plays directly to my understanding of things. It is not "useful" to humans to be mopey edgelords dressed in black (like those unattractive people over there), and so it logically(?) follows that the content of the idea of nihilism is incorrect. Q.E.D, amen, next problem please.

The anti-animal unattractiveness and uselessnes of nihilism, are then taken by adults as sufficient to "disprove" the idea. But this is an intellectual dishonesty to which thinking animals are uniquely susceptible. "Oh, I don't like that, so I'm not going to entertain that idea, I refuse to think of the world in those terms." Of course, the human capacity for reason is such that it can sometimes overcome animal instinct.

What you've done with your illustration of natural animal behavior, is not a vindication of an intellectual rejection of nihilism, but just that: animals naturally doing what they do: dancing, fucking, without a care in the world. Not knowing, that we are nothing (yes, I just went full teenager and quoted that. You did open the door, after all).

To confuse matters further, since human life is short and meaningless, it is perfectly feasible for entire lives to be lived without ever contemplating these unpleasant ideas (indeed, this is perfectly fine, per my above small-picture hedonism, in life). The POINT of all this, is that what makes sense to a human animal's nature to do in life, is irreconcilable with the uncaring universe, and still comes to nothing. As you observed in your first sentence, humans hate hate hate this (what most of them really hate, whether they realize it or not, is that this is so).

Because suffering greatly outweighs pleasure, and so if my goal was the pure attainment of pleasure and the avoidance of pain, the only logical thing to do would be to kill myself.

>>6714747
Is that real? I feel bad for her.

>>6715607
Well you can give her a call, probably.

>>6714444
Hnnnnng

>>6714705
That's my problem though. I love old Eppy, but being too conscious of his approach backfires for me.

>>6713264
hedonism isn't sustainable, and i believe i can experience greater joy from a sustainable moderation over a great period of time, provided that i don't get hit by a car, of course.

>>6713264

>technically, the only two things you enjoy

Nice image

>>6713264
Pain and pleasure are inextricably linked.

>>6714747
>that last part
christ

>>6715246
>adults dismiss nihilism as childish because its cowardly
or because they're afraid to confront it

>>6716089
that's not not hedoism lad. its just epicureanism

>>6716089

Short game, balls-out hedonism is usually (not always, e.g. Keith Richards) unsustainable for individuals (and for society, as I suggest here >>6714915 ), but you incorrectly equate the former with hedonism in general. Indeed, by your own admission, what does your strategy involve? A maximization of personal pleasure. Whoops, you're a hedonist, just with an arguably better long game, making you King Hedonist. You lucky swine.

>>6716145

This is incorrect. Pleasure-seeking and pain-avoidance in general, are properly subsumed under hedonism, as I point out here >>6716153 and here >>6715164 .

>b-but that other guy never said "pleasure is the highest good" you're stupid your argument sucks

Doesn't matter. He explicitly admits of a maximization of pleasure as a desirable end. There are multiple categories with which hedonism is not mutually exclusive, let alone that /even the fucking wiki/ makes your epicureanism out to be the same damn thing within its first paragraph:

>Following Aristippus—about whom very little is known—Epicurus believed that what he called "pleasure" is the greatest good...

Differing strategy for this /first principle/, /common to hedonism/: moderation, dude.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism

Suppose a dog, overcome with weakness & hunger, were to come across a slaughterhouse, and there a dexterous butcher or butcher's apprentice were to fling him a chain of bones — thoroughly scraped, without any flesh, smeared with blood. What do you think: Would the dog, gnawing on that chain of bones — thoroughly scraped, without any flesh, smeared with blood — appease its weakness & hunger?

Not even if it rained gold coins
would we have our fill
of sensual pleasures.
'Stressful,
they give little enjoyment' —
knowing this, the wise one
finds no delight
even in heavenly sensual pleasures.

because cheap thrills get boring.

i like that "your body is preparing itself for death" neurochemical surge when you do something crazy, like riding a motorcycle or entering a long-term monogamous relationship

>>6715246
>nihilism is cowardly


literally the opposite

>>6714826

depressionchan, but probably a fake profile.

>>6713264
>the brain does X when Y happens
>THIS MUST BE THE EXPLANAITION TO EVERYTHING
That pic is filled with bullshit.

>>6716213
>because cheap thrills get boring.
Cheap thrills are fun, it's repetition that's boring.

"The only other important thing to be said about Fear & Loathing at this time is that it was fun to write, and that's rare -- for me, at least, because I've always considered writing the most hateful kind of work. I suspect it's a bit like fucking, which is only fun for amateurs. Old whores don't do much giggling.

Nothing is fun when you have to do it -- over & over, again & again -- or else you'll be evicted, and that gets old. So it's a rare goddamn trip for a locked-in, rent-paying writer to get into a gig that, even in retrospect, was a kinghell, highlife fuckaround from start to finish. . . and then to actually get paid for writing this kind of maniac gibberish seems genuinely weird; like getting paid for kicking Agnew in the balls."

-- Thompson

>>6716178
I said it's not not hedonism, which means it is hedonism, so we are in agreement, lad.

>>6714747
Sounds like the perfect wife if you're a muslim. Veil at day, waifu mask at night.

>>6714774
>Christians think their God is the only one that can possibly exist
>Christians think there are no gods who would approve of hedonism.

Ha, they are merely the symptoms of enjoying something, saying this is stupid.

>>6713264
Because I'm mature enough to understand that achieving true greatness requires sacrifice.

>>6714774

Because I'm not a child anymore.

is it a trend to hate hedonism? why do i keep seeing that?

>>6716136
>ed sheeran fat bald

being ginger is worse than balding.

>>6718020
>>6716144
>>6715379
> muh nihilism
why do you place so much importance on truth? there are things outside of science, things we can't explain but feel, that science can never touch or hope to understand. truth can kill the soul, which leads the soulless to enviously attempt to kill others souls and drag them down to their level. isn't a lie that leads to a great life far better than any truth which eats away at it? furthermore, when two men look at the "same" object, do they see the same thing? cant they each see their own meaning, and each be true? science itself has begun to confirm things the mystics have said long ago, how atoms can change according to the viewer.. we don't understand the universe, and we likely never will. so take your "truth" and your cynical pessimism that destroys men and shove it up your arse

>>6718304
>cuts away the branch they are sitting on

True tbh. Pic related.

>>6718365

>>6715246
>Good Boy Points: The Religion is courageous

>>6718365
>muh feels are inexplicable

did you stumble out of some sort of time machine, lad?

>>6718374
>>6718375
>>6718380
> le cynical nihilism machine in action
thoroughly interesting and stimulating posts guys

>>6718417
Perhaps it's time to stop getting mad on the internet.

>>6718417
I'm neither cynical nor a nihilist. They aren't required beliefs to find Christianity silly.

>>6718426
you do realize your cynical nature is a product of modern day society - science disproved any belief or guiding light, whilst offering up nothing to replace it - predictable and pathetic

>>6718443
i didn't post anything about Christianity, i side with Nietsche on that, it dulls men into another drop in a flat ocean

I am with some stuff. Food, music, and drugs are my main sources of visceral pleasure. Too much of a prude for sex but hopefully I'll become a slut. But I do temper those actions since I'm poor and a scared nerd.
I find Wildean hedonism a false representation or maybe an ideal, the high art pleasures of the cultured with jewels, silk brocades, opera, classical busts, etc. The things that give me the greatest pleasure, obviously, tend to be the lowest common denominator, lower class, "guilty pleasure" "trashy" pop things, which I don't have a problem with enjoying tbh.

>>6718660
Absolutely degenerate.

>>6718660
Enjoying trash unironically gives me an extra psychological pleasure to be honest. It feels exciting, like I'm doing something taboo.

>>6718189

Whoops, so you did, my bad, wew lad.

Let the record show that I have admitted my mistake. :^)

>>6715607
Not exactly. This is a real picture but not a real profile, that girl lives in russia.

>>6713264
it's hard to be a hedonist

it's easier to be a lazy piece of shit, do nothing all day and squeeze a little pleasure here and there

Nothing wrong with enjoying the finer things, just don't be a sperg about it.

dis fuggen thread

>>6718951
Noted, lad. If anything your post is an informative expansion on mine.

>>6715395
that would only be logical if your goal was the avoidance of pain

I wrote a suicide note about this but my parents were too stupid to understand it and I didn't even die

>>6719448
You shoulda killed your parents first tbh.

They might try and make another of you, which can only lead to more misery.

>>6718365
hahahaha lol kid you're straight out of "what the bleep do we know?"

>>6718793
god you kinds of people are faggots. like you're just so high upper cultured class but it's your guilty pleasure to enjoy what the common classes or even riff-raff do

so pretentious
such faggotry
so condescending

>>6719468
my parents had 6 kids and of those kids there have already been 8 children born

I don't care though, because I don't have enough compassion to be an antinatalist for other people and they are fun to play with and molest sometimes