/lit/ - Literature

>>6700820
He's a cretin.

>>6700820
just another average "scientist"

>>6700820

>The art of war
>The book that literally says walking long distances makes your men fatigued
>Profound in any way

>>6700831
"Scientists" aren't that popular. He's a popsci popfag.

>that reasoning for why you should read the bible
>''profound insight into what has driven the western world ''

Leblackscienceman.png

Shit's soo 2014, like oh my god.

>>6700820

Solid. Arguable, but solid.

>The Bible: to learn that it's easier to be told by others what to think and believe than it is to think for yourself

I think this may be the most ironic thing to come from New Atheism.

This crushed my perfect view of the man. Keks on him.

>>6700820
>not dostoievsky

>>6700867
New Atheism is all about thinking for oneself. That's kind of the whole point.

not really convinced by his Gulliver's Travels explanation but the rest is at least arguable

I've never really been impressed by Art of War but its influence is pretty clear

>>6700820
Book of the five rings is better than art of war.

I mean it's all canonical aside from the Newton book, but that's fine. A philosopher would tell you you had to read Plato. There are more than 8 books every intelligent person should read. Solid list though.

I think the hate here is just a kneejerk reaction because the guy who made the list is a bit of a faggot. The comments he put for the books are enough to tell you that. All things considered, it's pretty cool that he put more philosophy on the list than science.

>>6700893

Are you fucking kidding me? New Atheism is literally a fixed, rigid, progressive cult that you get expulsed from for committing the cardinal sins of racism, sexism, or homophobia.

God is dead but here's another bunch of arbitrary rules to make you a Good Person. New Atheism is just garbage.

>>6700913
Book of the Five Rings is a manual on swordsmanship with minor Zen influences.

>>6700893
>New Atheism is all about thinking for oneself.

>>6700967
You're retarded and mad as hell. The former probably follows the latter, it's difficult to be smart when you're mad as hell.

>>6700980

>u mad
>u dumb

Nice rebuttal. Why don't you just tell me to go back to /pol/?

>>6700988
Are you from /pol/?

>>6700988
/pol/ probably hates the New Atheists even more than you do. The /pol/ invasion is why half of /lit/ is now composed of "free-thinking" Christians.

>>6700999
Christianity is gaining traction in /lit/ because /lit/ is disillusioned with the secular left's growing anti-intellectualism and complete disregard for class struggle in favor of identity politics.

>>6701016
Actually too stupid to recognize trolling and mistake discussion concerning the message, history, and logic of Christianity as religiosity.

>>6700820

If you ignore his motivations, the list is pretty good, albeit not conclusive in any way.

It would certainly benefit all people to have read that list.

>>6700893
I didn't mean it that way, I meant that it was ironic because Tyson is telling others how to think, while debasing the Bible for that very same thing, by having people read the Bible with a very biased and negative mindset.

>>6701116
It's ironic because you're telling us how to think by telling us how to think about how Tyson tells us how to think about how not to let others tell us how to think.

I don't know what I expected from such a tool.

>>6701127
No.

>1. Bilbe

>>6701139
Don't tell me how to think.

>>6701158
You're not going to learn by luck.

>>6701158
You should think your own thoughts

>>6700820
>what has driven the history of the western world
>no greeks
>sun tzu
ayy

>>6701176
Meno please fuck off

>>6701218
Also 5 out of 8 of those books were written by Anglo-Saxons in a span of only two centuries.
>history of the western world

even though this is the millionth time this thread has been posted I will bite.

Why do people ask this many about anything other than his specialized field? He has a doctorate in Astrophysics right? not literature or philosophy or history?

>>6701239
Neil deGrasse Tyson serves as a bridge between supposed intellectuals and the masses.
Think public intellectual but with contrived bullshit replaced by finding new ways to say 'lol space is huuuuuge'.

>>6701253
I just can't imagine being so stupid as to think one person is the authority on all academic matters because he has been recognized as above average in one.

>>6700820
There are better books, but none of them should not be recommended.

>>6700893
It's about thinking for yourself the way other people tell you to. Basically Christfaggotry but with science instead of the bible.

>>6701262
>>6701239


Is this your very first encounter with celebrity culture? Being famous gives you authority, for pretty much the same reason most people would sooner listen to a family member than a random stranger.

Neil "Nutted But She Still Suckin'" deGrasse Tyson has typical boring entry-level anglo taste.

>>6701280
>Being famous gives you authority
It can't just be about familiarity. Andy Dick and Paris Hiltion are famous but no one would take advice from them.

>>6701300
A lot of people have taken advice from Paris Hilton.

>>6701300
people take advice from jennifer mccarthy, and she's not much better

>>6701300
>Russel Brandt and Jennifer Lawrence are famous but noone would take advice from them
If Paris Hilton published a self-help book/was still in the limelight, it would fly off the shelves.

>>6701300
Lena Dunham has written an NY Times best selling self-help book.

>>6701300
Paris Hiltion can't be very famous, so I doubt many take advice from her(?).

Christianity: existence of absolute truth, advocates the divinity of the individual to use free will and thought in order to find God for themselves among a community of people trying to do the same, to fail, to ask for forgiveness, for eternity.

Atheism: Absolute truth does not inherently exist, the inescapable scope of the universe - so infinitely complex without even being compared to the flimsy sack of neurons we call a consciousness - that they conclude it must solely function on observable and conceived forces devoid of even the possibility of something more than thoughts of dirt dust and rust, Nihlist dreams of thinking up the most perfect and elegantly arguement of the absence of free will and thought, finally making his point that there is no point, when as far as I'm concerned these questions have been answered for millennia, Socrates says if one were to argue meaningless that their arguement would consequently be meaningless. Pascal's Wager, what do you get out of doom saying? A false sense of power? That you get to become the harbinger of the end of days? That's a good way to weld up your windows and sew without thimbles.

>>6701355
I'm Catholic and and even I think the christ-shitposting has gotten out of hand here

>>6700820

>>6701370
No worse than the marxposting and other shit tbh, you're just an atheist trying to make it seem like a big deal.

>>6700820
pleb as fuck

>>6700820
The list is good, but those descriptions...

>>6701016
>I am disillusioned with the secular left's growing anti-intellectualism etc., therefore I have decided to become a Christian

Disillusionment for the left doesn't make Christianity seem any better. There are other options. It's not one or the other.

>>6701370
I'm also a Catholic on holidays, and frankly this entire website is a shitpost so that doesn't phase me, although I do wonder why. I do find it particularly intriguing that /lit/ does not at all seem to declare militant atheism our salvation and religion the bane of intellectual thought, thoughts I somewhat had at a younger age but grew out of, I probably grew out of this gradually over the period I first started browsing 4chan.com/b, I wouldn't have thought Christians or any active theists even existed at that point, but /lit/ at least attempts to be a place of thought and it really has been a joy to me to see /lit/ not carry the same *edgy certainty in atheism now that this board has reached a mature stage.

Not terrible, but available to much contention.

And to be fair, I don't think there exists any specific set of books (or other cultural media) that predicate being considered intelligent. There are countless academics that probably haven't read half the books discussed here.

Anyway, there's a hefty amount of thematic and philosophical overlap between history's 'great works.' Same strokes, different folks (to be reductive).

>>6701016
>>6700999
>>6701431
/lit/ is not a politics board. Religion is a part of philosophy and literature (/lit/s bread and butter)

>>6701431
No, I think there's a lot more potential for worker friendly politics from religion than from secularism, because orthodox Christianity isn't going to be dominated by the same identity politics that the currently is.

>>6701445
It's funny because the atheism meme actually only started when /leftypol/ began raiding /lit/

>>6701452
>that the left currently is

>>6701435
I can agree with being happy with a maturity that allows for expression of philosophical and logical thoughts coming from religious minds. But often times with this board the actual conversation about religion is reduced to shit posts and memes like the 'tips fedora' meme and the bible is objectively the best book ever meme. This makes actual conservation difficult.
I like that christians are expressing thoughts from a viewpoint that I'm not a part of but the bickering can be a bit much

>>6701435
it's a different sort of edgy certainty in god though, where you reply to any insituation of nontheistic behavior with a picture of a fedora and cite the Summa Theologica without reading it
>>6701380
I don't like the Marxposting either even though I consider myself some flavor of Marxist. please mind how I self-identify and do not trigger me again

>>6700831
More like a sci[ent]ist

>>6700842
It may seem obvious to you now, but that's because you live in a post sun tsu world. Think about it.

>>6701458
>the bible is objectively the best book ever meme
it did win the poll. It's /lit/'s favorite book.

>>6700999
You're retarded and mad as hell. The former probably follows the latter, it's difficult to be smart when you're mad as hell.

>>6701469
Yeah yeah and I certainly admire its tremendous influence on western authors and philosophers over the years. It's definitely the most influential and singularly important book in our culture but to name it the best...
Idk that's people opinions and I'm being scatter-brained, point ceded

>>6701030
>>6701016
>>6700999
I thought the Christian shit was just a meme. Can anyone confirm that this is true or not? I'm out if this shitty board gets shittier from Christianity.

>>6701489
It's worth noting that as a catholic, I agree with your opinion >>6701458

/lit/ should be able to have a peaceful discussion between atheist and Christian without is devolving into memes, I think much of the antagonism is a reaction against the "reddit" /leftypol/ brand of anti intellectual circlejerk atheism that risks invading this board. The intelligent of /lit/ need to crack down on any post, atheist or christian that espouses anti intellectual rhetoric.

>>6701406

Yeah. Are we sure he wrote this? I suppose google is my friend here.

These quips are pretty shallow. It's clear from what he wrote about Smith, Sun Tzu, and Machiavelli that he either never read these books or never thought about what he read. He has a tendency to shoot from the hip.

Smith's whole point was about how individual self-interest seeking creates a better world and more common good for individual people. "Capitalism" as Tyson uses is the Marxist interpretation of free markets, especially the point about "greed". The point might well be a good one, but in that case, why not just skip Smith and read Marx?

Sun Tzu's whole point is that war must be waged morally, with minimum loss of human life, and ideally not at all. "To win without fighting is best". This doesn't just suffuse his text, it's a critical point of the commentary of every translation I've read.

Machiavelli definitely recommends ruthlessness-- and I can't see why Tyson would complain seeing has how he says most rational thought is a primary source of freedom but people are greedy Yahoos. If they can't be trusted to act on their own account, don't they therefore need a strong tyrant to keep them acting rationally? That's one of Machiavelli's key points and yet Tyson's tone is one of disapproval. Part of reading Machiavelli is understanding the period and context of where he was writing, and what he considered the stakes of losing to be.

So yeah good list but the commentary seems written by and for people who will never actually read the books themselves.

>>6701499
It's not a meme. You should go.

>>6701499
We'll pray for you.

>>6701499
4chan is naturally filled with reactionary people. and with how deprived and disgusting internet culture (which is nowadays synonymous with physical culture) it only makes sense that reactionary people would flock to something like Christianity. I'm all for it.

>>6701514
>It's clear from what he wrote about Smith, Sun Tzu, and Machiavelli that he either never read these books or never thought about what he read

I felt that way, too. I don't understand why he would fill half this list with "jokes" to make a "point". That seems "anti-scientific".

>>6701531
>>6701499
Thinking about this again; I'm okay with this. Hell, I've never had an issue with Christianity tbh. It's alarming how many religion threads there are on /lit/. At least it's not Islam, AMIRITE?

>>6701509
Right on, For the most part there are many good discussions about the philosophies of both sides on here but more and more lately there has been an increase in anti-secularist thought and with good reason, New Atheism does have many holes and can be overly aggressive, especially on the internet so it should be combated, but everyone just needs to remain level headed and actually discuss the issues instead of going to extremes. I agree

>>6701554
There's always a natural appeal to Christianity, and the way it has shaped western art, literature, law &c. &c. always means it'll be a viable option for a westerner (for now). I don't know how much of it is genuine, but it's better than this neo-lib movement of "ayyyy, be depraved as you want, change your gender and ethnicity, yolo lmao".

>>6700820
>all white men and one Asian man

Patriarchal and racist tbh

>>6700820
>still believing in the enlightenment narrative
>still believing there is anything natural about capitalism, despite it relying on a thick framework of property laws, enforced by authorities, to work

>>6701581
>majored in anthropology
>is a barista
>we prefer your coffee to your ill-informed opinions
>thanks Adam Smith

>>6701624
anthropologists disproved Adam Smith years ago yet I still have this shitty coffee job. dammit

>>6701499
Threads are started by trolls and populated by trolls, maybe a couple of retarded believers, and a handful of people who're interested but not actually religious. All of them are shitposters. It's just a fad, though.

Why the fuck would you read On the Origin of Species in 2015

>>6701722
The discovery of epigenetics make it even more irrelevant.

>>6701581
Learn to read:
>a force of nature UNTO ITSELF
This is perfectly in line with the marxian analysis, actually. Hadn't thought of him as a critical theorist, not bad.

> The System of the World
> On the Origin of Species
> Wealth of Nations

Literally the only reason somebody should read these is if they are interested in the history of science. If you want to know about physics or biology or economics, a basic textbook will explain more, and better.

>>6700933
The selections could all be argued well for.

The comments show he had no idea what be was doing when he selected them.

The comedy comes from the disparity between the two taken in context with his general popularity as an intellectual

Hope that catches you up on the laughs

Cheers

>>6700820
>'intelligent' person
>defining a man based on some abstract thoughts in his mind instead on what he does and accomplishes

Every time.

>>6701300

Emma Watson was allowed to speak to the assembled United Nations.

>>6701578

How do you know Adam Smith didn't secretely identify as a black woman? You transphobic transracephobe

>>6701373
i get all of my arguments from memecenter.com as well

>The Bible: to learn that it's easier to be told by others what to think and believe than it is to think for yourself

I want to throatfuck this idiot

>>6700820
>All those white male authors
smh

>>6700974
>[Citation Needed]

>capitalism
>force of nature

>>6702337
UNTO ITSELF!
Motherfucker can't you read?

Black science man confused Machiavelli with Botero.
Stupid Angloamerican antimachiavellism.

>all these christfags that get triggered by anything that isn't approved by an eccumenical council and people from centurys ago who believed in literal demons as causes for everything.

gb2 tennessee or africa or whatever impoverished shithole you sqaut it

>>6701578
All of those authors are known trans*

>>6702592
>eccumenical
>centurys
>whatever impoverished shithole you sqaut it
>passive sentence
The euphoric enlightened knowledge of Fedoras everyone.

Your blind opposite to him is the same way people blindly listen to him


you're a bunch of contrarians no better than any of the fedoras on reddit

>>6703323
the realest nigga

>Wealth of Nations
>no Das Kapital

There are better books for evolutionary biology and physics. Don't bother with old books just because they are "classic".

>>6700820
it's not as bad as it could have been

>>6701016
YES
THIS EXACTLY

>>6700820
>to learn that it's easier to be told by others what to think and believe than it is to think for yourself

BOLD words coming from a pop-scientest

>The Bible, te learn that it's easier to be told by others what to think and believe than it is to think for yourself

is this the most fedora statement ever made?

>>6705348
best part is that he says this while telling others what to think and read.

One should instead read What is enlightenment by Kant

>>6705361
Kant is haaaaaaaard.

It's a bit boring.

>>6700820
>all this ideology

My got

>>6700967

This is brilliant

I pronounce pinnacle like pine-ackle and my bros make fun of me for it.