/lit/ - Literature

>>6663251
you're alone in that. go away

I'm ashamed to admit in college that I immensely enjoyed Sunday School.

>>6663251
Haven't been to church in 11 years.

Maybe, though it's more complicated than simply ironic consumption.
I grew up in a very catholic family, went to church every week as a child. Through my teenage years I had the typical rebellious phase, argued with my grandmother about religion, all that silliness. Now Catholic culture and Christian philosophy/history fascinates me. I can see something worthwhile in faith, even if I don't know if I'll ever be convinced as to the existence of God.

>>6663251
Wow, how pathetic.

>>6663312
Look everybidy ! Here! Sonebody still believes! Kek.

>>6663251
It's the ultimate dilemma.

Christian girls are hot as fuck and less discriminating than other women.

Yet their God forbids them from putting out... :l

https://youtu.be/UE_PMOZ9bBo

I'm a Catholic because I'm afraid someone might accuse me of owning a fedora. I don't actually believe the nonsense. I'm simply saving myself from criticism.

I would be if I could find a church or group that focuses on the scholarly esoteric aspects of christianity. But I haven't found any, just foolish ignoramuses for the most part

>>6663251
I'm currently a Jehovah's Witness and it sucks. I'm pretty much an atheist and I can't leave or discuss my own beliefs because of my family and the religion's policies. Everything my family does or talks about is the religion itself. I'm hoping to move to the farther place I can find soon. If my book sells enough, well, that'd be great for my intended income, but I'm not counting on it.

My advice: if you're able to chose your own religion and feel good about it you're good.

>>6663251
>Cultural Christians

>>6663349
>pretending to be catholic coz of an internet meme

You are both weak. And this is coming from a non-christian

>>6663366
Understandable

>>6663366
Wait, what? I'm not understanding. How is your family preventing you from being an atheist? Do you not realize that most atheists are first-generation and are victim to some persecution by their loved ones? Is it just really extreme in your case, or what? Pls explain

>>6663390
>Is it just really extreme in your case, or what?
Yes, extreme. I feel like living in some 1984 shit. You can't question the religion or disagree with it, let alone leave it, otherwise your family will ostracize you and never talk to you again. I know people that don't talk to their parents for the last 30 years because they decided to change their beliefs. It's a cult, everything is extreme and members are brainwashed. The only way out without a lot of trouble is moving out and never talk about your beliefs again. I envy catholics a bit. Their church is so open to discussion nowadays and they tend to see the world almost as it is. Someday JW may change, but I don't think so.

>>6663513
You should consider leaving the cult, even if that means your parents won't talk to you

>>6663513
To be fair that cultishness is probably how Jesus and his disciples started out.

>>6663519
I've been considering that for a while, not sure yet.

>>6663525
I wonder how that was too. Even though Jesus is portrayed as a nice guy in the new testament, Paul was a fucking cunt disseminating what Jesus supposedly said and that makes me wonder whether Paul was just repeating what he heard or he decided that his way of thinking was for the best.

>>6663251
I, honestly kind of recognize this.

I have a very hard time believing in any from of revelation and thus church and dogma - and I'm highly sceptical to any personal (or worse, anthropomorphic) god.

But the comradeship and unity I feel during communion keeps making me go to church.

>>6663291
Same here...

>>6663874
I sympathize with this. But it's natural to have doubts and to find believe difficult in contemporary societies. I find value in the community and symbolism of the church I attend. I'm much happier being an attending, but dubious, liberal Episcopalian than going searching after certainty. I dislike the arrogance of internet atheists and religious fundamentalists equally.

>>6663366
JW's aren't Christians, they're more Jews who accept Christ as the Messiah but not God Almighty.

>>6663251
Im atheist but I go to a Russian Orthodox Church every Sunday because I'm trying to learn russian and its good practice

>>6664721
вы дoлгo изyчaли язык?

>>6663251
I wish churches were more accepting of people wanting to do this. I'd love to go to Mass and learn about Catholicism despit me not being a Christian, but I feel like most people there would just wonder why I was there if I wasn't a Christian.

I'd take part in communion and everything, I would be that faggot who doesn't participate save for listening. Plus ritual really interests me.

The biggest problem though, is that I feel like simply going to a church isn't a very good way to learn about the faith.

>>6663355
>tfw the south will never have interfaith discussion groups with services for each religious group present

>>6665025
Better yet they should turn them into museums, that we we all profit. No job losses and still something to occupy us on The Sabbath.

>>6665025

you can go to mass whenever you want, communion is literally the only thing you can't do. and even then it's not like they check your christian papers, you can take the sacraments if you want.

>>6665080
I think the jews have jew papers. That's what a girl told me. Her family had lost theirs during the war and now they had to have them remade. Anyone second this or did she bullshit me?

>>6663251
Maaaaan, I'm exactly you.

>>6663251
Only on /lit/...

>>6665080
It's sacrilege to give the Eucharist to a non believer.

>>6663874

So in a Communist society you would be a member of the party who attended meetings every Sunday to enjoy the solidarity?

>>6663251
>discuss Aristotle and Aquinas

Where on earth did you find a church where the adherents were able to discuss these two people properly?

>>6665127
The only religion I know of that have papers for their adherents is the Baha'i faith.

>>6665127
Nazi germany issued jew passports. Also, religious communities will have registers of their members. But no, there are no jew papers.

Yes, I'm a Marxist.

>>6665215
this, every time I've tried to a Christian they just say "Aquinawhaa?"

>>6665274
The closest Ive come to is someone knowing that he is important for some reason.

>>6663251
what's your day job

"ironic" is the wrong word, but yes OP, I am also a cultural Catholic without any real faith. I like religion in the same way I like art or fiction, and I don't think some strict adherence to a certain set of beliefs about who exactly Jesus was should be the litmus test for getting something (or worse, "the right thing") out of Christianity.

I tell people I am religious, but not spiritual. Sounds like you're the same.

>>6665215


>go to church with wife and kids
>its annoying but at least I can spend time with them
>mass ends
>maybe pop over to ihop after
>waiting for wife to fetch kids
>pale guy with eyebags smelling of semen comes toward me
>"excuse me do you want to discuss the ideas of Aquinas?"
>i think i remember him from a class back in college
>say sure to appease this guy
>goes in on a rant about aquinas and aristotle
>just agree with him and nod
>he walks away" thank you this was enlightening"
>what a freak
>tfw iHop was out of mozarella sticks

>>6663251
You're insane and need help.

It's the only way to find a decent wife.

As good old Nietzsche said: "Here and there they wish even to make women into free spirits and literary workers: as though a woman without piety would not be something perfectly obnoxious or ludicrous to a profound and godless man."

>>6665197
I'm already a communist (well, vague socialist at least), and I'm sporadically active in several groups - so yeah quite likely (although in the case of state socialism I'd probably be the one organising them), I'm simply a very social person. Though the activism is more because it's an interesting forum of opinions - I've met my fair share of council communists and anarchists, for now I'd like to meet an actual Russian Nazbol.

>>6665424

>identifying with a political ideology

>>6665425
>identifying with a religious doctrine

>>6665424
Council communists? Where the hell do you live?

I can't even imagine. So much shitty philosophy, who would submit themselves to that if they didn't have some sort of spiritual stake in it?

>>6665433
i do neither.,...

>>6665424
>nazbol
There is no reason

>>6663251
>not being protestant

>>6665425
As I've said, vague socialist. I'm a bit to statist to find myself in the libertarian/anarchist camp, but promotes syndicates before nationalisation too much for the MLs and Trots (the fact that I find that distinction meaningless after the fall of the USSR doesn't help much either).

>>6665440
Sweden.

Honestly, never met one who explicitly calls themselves "council communist" but one of my friends fit the label perfectly (though he does mention Lenin from time to time, so feel free to disagree) - actually the guy who got me into leftism in the first place.

>>6665458
Both the westerners and the Russians appear too be pretty insane, but that's also part of the appeal: "what the fuck do they actually want?" you know?

>>6665473
>Sweden

You've got a strong morale. Given all the shit that's happening in Sweden i would have ended up disgusted with leftism long ago.

im a catholic who is 1/8 jew

its kinda weird, but i grew up catholic so that's what i identify with. the best part about being part jewish is the jokes.

>>6665505
We have a pretty strong tradition of leftism, people who actually see beyond the sjw smokescreen - and those who once invited them are actually getting pretty tired of their American liberal bullshit.

The anarchists seems like a pretty lost cause, but several socialist and marxist writers are telling them to stfu because they're killing the movement - from their own perspective and ranks, which reaches them much better than arguments from traditional leftism or second wave feminism.

I think a large part is due to gender studies actually having a place in a lot of subjects here in Sweden, people learn to see both it's good and bad sides - and the sjws aren't allowed to sit in a hugbox but are constantly forced to meet people who disagree with them.

In the US they've seemed to have left them alone fighting in a pit and the result was that the most extreme came out on top.

If you "discuss" Aquinas and yet have not become a Catholic yourself, it goes to show how much you actually understand his philosophy.

>>6663744
>Paul was a fucking cunt disseminating what Jesus supposedly said
How exactly?

>>6663525
If they were as brainwashed as members of actual cults seem to be, Peter would never have denied Jesus (or been such a kike after he ascended into heaven).

>>6663251
>People find me really interesting.
No. They don't.

>>6663251

The word you're looking for is post-ironic.

>>6663251
>going to church
>alternative
2015 is weird

>>6663336
>Yet their God forbids them from putting out... :l

That just makes it taboo and makes them want it even more.

>>6665581
Implying that Aquinas' philosophy is rock solid?

>>6663251

I desperately want to go to a black Gospel church to see the singing and feel ebullient but I can't because I'm a white Canadian.

>>6665769
cuck
u
c
k

>>6665760

It's diamonds.

>>6663251
You just described Catholicism... Also people don't find you interesting as you think

>>6663251
i was raised catholic but was never serious about it. i'll be honest and say that a lot of the christian threads that have been posted as a response to "fedoras" is what has sparked my desire to learn more about my faith. but i wouldn't say i'm ironically christian because i've always believed, went to catholic school from first grade to twelfth, and observed a lot of the holidays, even going to church on ash wednesday, easter, and christmas.

>>6665025
As St. Paul says, if you take communion unworthily (I.e without a clean conscience) you being damnation on yourself

>>6665464
>being Protestant

>>6665769
Its ok just let them fuck your Gif/sister/mother in front of you and I'm sure they'll let you go to their church after that

>>6666119

>damned for eating a piece of bread

>>6666145
It's literally the body of Christ, bruh.

>>6663513
You're not alone! I'm a Scientologist, no shit. I was born and raised a Scientologist and it's like being a Jehovah's Witness except with lie detectors (e-meters) which makes it worse. There is no escape except to abandon your entire life. You will be ex-communicated either way.

>>6666144
hey...I think I recognize this meme!
this is the "cuck" meme, right?
do you mind if I take a screenshot of your post for my 4chan scrapbook, or even posted it on r/4chan?

>>6666119
How much should we really take Paul's words? Didn't the guy believe the world was ending in his time?

>>6666188
No more than Christ did.

If it weren't for Paul, the Church would probably have gone through major schisms early on. There still ended up being a few, like Gnosticis, but it would have been a lot worse without Paul.

>>6666180
Its all yours :)

>>6663251
>2015
>unironically being a Christian

>>6666284
*tips fedora*

>>6663349
pathetic

>>6666290
how does it feel to be a cuck?

>>6666157
How high up is your family in the Church level wise? It seems like once people hit the OT levels there isnt much chance of them leaving.

>>6666292
>projecting

>>6666470
who are you quoting?

>>6663251

Not at all. Many people of different backgrounds have recognized that church can have value for the community it provides, even if they don't agree with tenets of the faith.

>be atheist living in the south
>always willing to go to someone's church if they invite me
>mormons invite me
>oh boy here we go
>all the hymns were about family and being nice to people
>break into discussion group
>talk about the normal struggles of everyday life, and argue the morality of certain behaviors
>witnessing discussion that isn't "hur hur gotta believe more"
>can't believe what im seeing
>but these people are fucking crazy and i cant stay here

It was a sad day.

>>6666328
Daily reminder that to be cucked is submitting yo ass to a spook.

>>6666488
Combine that with the fact that leaving can result in shunning and its very easy to see whilst people stay a part of it.

>>6666145
>not recognizing the Real Presence
Pleb

>>6666188
They aren't Paul's words, they are the words of the Holy Spirit, written down through Paul

>Be me
> not sure if they're even religious or ever was
>never say anything about it or church or praying - nothing
>tfw they made me think wrong for 22 years of my life and stunted irreparably my mental growth all because they wanted to not appear like heathens to our neighbours

>>6667078
They being my parents.

>>6663251
op that's totally fine and i do the same thing for the social aspect

just play the game!

>>6667078
>taking 22 years

bro come on

god is real tbh

>>6667100
I was sheltered brah, and that coupled with a submissive personality - yikes. Better late than never at least. It was a painful 180 tho.

>>6667078
>having to come to a critique of religion on your own
>stunted
I mean, it's amazing it took you this long, but that is way better than being raised atheist imo.

I'm a Catholic, not a super serious one though. I believe there's some higher being, however, I don't believe in the creation story or deny any sort of fact because of my faith.

I strive to have both science and theology in my life and really hate the crazy religious people that try enforce the absurd religious "laws" on others through threatening people with damnation.

Anyways, OP, that's interesting and pretty cool to hear that this happens. Almost makes me want to show up to church on Sundays now.

>>6665464
American or European protestant?

>>6663251
fuck off heretic

>>6667158
That's not what a heretic is, retard.

>>6665464
>Heretics

>>6667164
Who you calling retard, fag?

>>6667172
Who are you calling fag, cuck?

>>6667172
Who you callin pinhead?

>>6667123
>way better than being raised atheist imo.
What makes you say that?

>>6667138
You're clearly not a Catholic.

You're more like a garden variety neo-Christian. Most neo-Christians only pretend to have faith because it's the ace up the sleeve--leverage they can use in most situations to feel good or superior. Others just think there's "something" to it because Nana believed it.

>>6667198
No, I truly feel that there is a "God" out there and I find that there is a lot of truth in Catholic faith which is why I chose to go to a jesuit school. There's nothing pretend about how I feel.

You don't have adhere to everything in the bible to be a Catholic. It'd be ridiculous if you had to be completely committed to the strict traditional and conservative writings/teachings in order to be a Catholic.

Who /wanttobelivebutcannot/ here?

Now's a good time for you to recant your trinitarian heresy and recognize that Unitarianism is the only Christian theology with a valid basis in scripture

>All this ironic and cultural Catholics
>Christposting on /lit/

hmmmmmmm

>>6667252
Pray the following prayer: "Oh Lord, I believe; help thou my unbelief."

>>6667243
Catholicism requires rigid and specific belief in almost all major facets of life. I was raised Catholic, kid, so don't pretend it isn't the iron corset it is.

Not only are all the beliefs of Catholicism limned with dizzying detail, those who identify as Catholic are obligated to believe it all. It's fascism meets religion.

If you do not believe, for example, that the bread you take during communion IS literally the body of Christ, you aren't a Catholic.

None of this "hmm, no, I like calling myself a Catholic--it's fun!" bullshit.

You can be a Christian ironically- until you aren't, of course.

I pray- not an expression, I have said a prayer- that everyone in this thread feels the Holy Spirit, and they are driven to return to God and his Church. Christ be with you, my sisters and brothers. There is yet a long run to daylight.

>>6667276
Was raised a Catholic too, and I can attest to the the statement "It's fascism meets religion". You aren't obligated to believe it all, in fact, you are encouraged to question your faith as the questioning will bring you more understanding in why you believe.

If you believe in everything for what it says in the books, then you've been practicing faith incorrectly. Many of the traditions the Catholic church has are metaphors and symbols to help bring someone closer to being at ease with themselves and with others. The teachings the church gives are not to be taken literally, and if you do so you end up doing the exact opposite of what the church wants. If you understand the meanings of the teachings and practices and carry them out, you better yourself as a person and benefit the community around you. This produces unity and peace inside and out, bringing "closer to God".

>>6667276
>It's fascism meets religion
Obviously you haven't heard of the church of scientology, jehovah's witness, ect.

Lets not be sensationalist here.

>ironically believing in something

Absolutely pathetic. This is the very epitomy of the postmodern mindset /lit/ probably hates with a passion. How fucking ironic

>thinking you could be an ironic christian

You're led to the church by God. You'll learn to embrace it in tme.

I think OP didn't mean ironic belief.

He said he doesn't believe in a god, so that would rule you're statement out.

OP is simply fond of Christian practices and finds church as an outlet for theological/philosophical discussion.

>>6667365
Even so, it's not ALL a metaphor, of course. It can't be. You can't just whisk away the supernatural elements of Christianity under the guise of metaphor and symbolism, particularly when they're still active elements of the faith's practice, particularly in the older branches like Catholicism and Orthodoxy, with their exorcisms and occasional miracles.

>>6667407
Of course, I didn't say disregard everything extraordinary, it may have sounded like it though.

What I mean is there has to be a theological understanding behind them. That practicing the religion requires looking into these occurrences in-depth and deriving truth or meaning from it.

>>6667138
You aren't Catholic son. A belief in a vague higher being doesn't even make you religious. If you believe in the catechism of the Catholic church you are Catholic. If you don't you aren't. Pretty simple.

>>6667182
He was raised christian and broke free of that stupid old slave morality like the superior intellectual he is.

>>6667437
God, Allah, higher being, creator, doesn't matter what you call it. It's the same thing with a different mask.

Even the Pope challenges some catechism of the church itself. Does that not make him Catholic?

>>6667437

As someone that's been confirmed, I can say otherwise.

Also this --> >>6667450

>>6667450
>God, Allah, higher being, creator, doesn't matter what you call it. It's the same thing with a different mask.

Eh, not really. What about Jesus? Christianity is fairly contingent on a specific human being with specific teachings being God.

>>6667450
>God, Allah, higher being, creator, doesn't matter what you call it. It's the same thing with a different mask.
No, it's heresy. Allah isn't the God of Christianity even if to someone ignorant it may seem the same. This is straight up heresy.
>Even the Pope challenges some catechism of the church itself. Does that not make him Catholic?
Of course he doesn't. I don't know where you got that.

>>6667459
I've been confirmed, as well. You're wrong.

>>6667450
>Even the Pope challenges some catechism of the church itself.

The Pope IS the fount of catechism. I don't even know why you'd say this, unless you didn't understand at all Catholicism.

>>6663291
>>6663908
There's a name for people like it's, cowards.

>>6663344
someone messaged that me once, what does it mean?

>>6667466
>>6667477

It doesn't matter what you call it at all. God is an inconceivable force that runs through all of creation. Emerson called it the oversoul. Allah can be put in it's place. Almost every deity is the same being with a different face and story. Just because the stories about it are different and its' names is not the same doesn't make it completely different. You need to be less literal, behind every deity is the same concept and it doesn't matter what you call it. Some prefer the Catholic point of view and call it God others were raised knowing it as Allah. Essentially it's the same concept behind different masks.

>>6667498
What you're saying is I am not a Catholic even though I've been confirmed by the catholic church?

Interesting.

>>6667524
I've been confirmed and I'm not a Catholic. My dad is a card-carrying Democrat who always votes Republican.

It's not difficult to comprehend.

>>6667524
>>6667498
if youve been baptized in the Catholic Church, youre Catholic
now what follows is if youre a good one or a bad one

>>6667498

Pope challenges the church on its stance on homosexuality and its perception of atheists.


Furthermore, the pope has even stressed the relationship with theology and modern science.

Also a lot of church reforms include challenging current beliefs or traditions. If there was none of that we wouldn't have the church we have today.

>>6667539
>Pope challenges the church on its stance on homosexuality and its perception of atheists.
no it doesnt, stop taking your information from maymays
>inb4 who am i to judge
>implying that didnt presuppose that people did God's will

>>6667533

It's also not difficult to comprehend that Catholics need not to blindly believe in what they are taught and to question their faith.

Even the term "Catholic" means universal or broad-based.

>>6667539
The Pope is the Church, tardfarm. Leave, come back when you know something about anything.

I really don't see the appeal. The real fun is being ironically Muslim.

>>6667557
>Catholics need not to blindly believe in what they are taught

Actually, yeah they do.

>>6667553
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there"

There's an actual quotation from the pope for you. I'm pretty sure quotations aren't memes.

>>6667567

As i've previously stated, there is a large stress of discernment in the Catholic faith. Where I was confirmed I was repeatedly told to question what I believe in to come to true understanding of it. If nobody questioned their faith, there wouldn't be great theologians such as Thomas Aquinas.

>>6665464
>literally the worst religion
>reason why the US is complete shit

>>6667610
>If nobody questioned their faith, there wouldn't be great theologians such as Thomas Aquinas.

Oh, no, you can question your faith. Go ahead, so long as the results of your questioning lead right back to what the Church proclaims, I mean.

It's ridiculous.

>>6667138
You're a deist m8, go read about that.

>>6667511
>It doesn't matter what you call it at all.

If you mean the Trinity with Father, Son and Holy spirit, sure it doesn't.

>God is an inconceivable force that runs through all of creation.

That's the holy spirit which isn't some inconceivable force. Especially since the world became flesh.

> Emerson called it the oversoul.

He was an important theologian on the matters of faith and doctrine?


> Allah can be put in it's place.

Allah just means God in Arabic.

>Almost every deity is the same being with a different face and story. Just because the stories about it are different and its' names is not the same doesn't make it completely different.

Ah so this is some new age bullshit after all?

>You need to be less literal, behind every deity is the same concept and it doesn't matter what you call it. Some prefer the Catholic point of view and call it God others were raised knowing it as Allah. Essentially it's the same concept behind different masks.

Go back to your yoga and iPhones.

>>6667569
The number of false quotes is always stunning, even if this one may be true. Also there is nothing new in it.

>>6667539
Because he's allowed to you fucking tard, his word is law.
If you're not a papist you need to reevaluate your life

>>6667252
I thought I was the only one.
It seems like religious people have it better, if they are facing a difficulty they just prey and feel like they did something, that their problems are going to get better because of something they can not see or feel.
Meanwhile I have to accept that there's not an all powerful force that will help me feel better when I need to.
>inb4 fedora tipping
This is what I really believe.

>>6667639
Stay mad
See >>6667658

>>6663287
Shit was horrible, the teachers were way too happy and so were the other kids.

>>6665421

> As good old Nietzsche said: "Here and there they wish even to make women into free spirits and literary workers: as though a woman without piety would not be something perfectly obnoxious or ludicrous to a profound and godless man."

Lol at smug atheist dorks going to Church just to pick up religious chicks.

>>6663336
Do you want a random slut or a lifelong faithful waifu, anon?

>>6668631
>Not getting cucked by atheists
>2015

>>6667511
How's your first year of college going?

>>6663251
>People find me really interesting.
I think vanity's a sin tbh

Also this "I'm an atheist, but I'm better than other atheists because I give religion unwarranted respect it hasn't earned and a free-pass whenever it does something immoral" bullshit needs to stop here.

This new trend of /lit/ Marxists flopping over and pretending that religion will be a solution , or at least irrelevant, to worldwide economic inequality problems is cringe worthy of being said by Chris Hedges.