/lit/ - Literature

pretty much; although, from what I recall, Neechy points a little more of the blame towards Epicurus since he was the guy who 'dumbed' Socratic thought down (and Christians, obvi). Source: Birth of Tragedy.

How do you even judge someone on biological worth? What is the measure?

>>6659776
Me Gug.
Me am punch goat.
Me bring food.

>Me Grelda.
>Me know good berry.
>Me bring food.

>>6658655
While it is true Nietzsche writes about contemplative types using rhetoric as a method of overpowering physically strong active types, this is not what he is getting at in his criticisms of Socrates.

Socratic-thinking is viewed as too rational, distrusting, and devaluing, not 'anti-biological status' or whatever.

>>6658655
Yes, for Nietzsche, the Socratics were a symptom of decline of the Hellenic spirit and culture.

>>6658655
Thats stupid and wrong on so many level.

Why is Socrates degenerate? Because he wasn't pretty? Was revolutionizing western thought not good enough?

>>6659798
I've always understood nietzsche point of view was that socrates' influence had overstayed its welcome and become a burden, not that it was a mistake to begin with.
I recall a passage in which Nietzsche implies that Socrates' method was actually necessary for Greece at the time. Any idea why his philosophy was supposedly so badly needed?

>>6659807
>>6659829
It is not needed, it is a sign of decline.

When moralfag shows up, it's the beginning of the end.

>>6659867
You can't just post a passage as a reply. Elsewhere he does imply that Platonists had a strong aesthetic sense, for example.

>>6659829
>I recall a passage in which Nietzsche implies that Socrates' method was actually necessary for Greece at the time. Any idea why his philosophy was supposedly so badly needed?

It's very similar to his views on slave morality. As in, he hates the actual views, but nevertheless he concedes Socrates and slave morality has pushed humanity forward, made them more interesting, and allowed Man to transcend being a bit too much like the Lion.

>"For [as Nietzsche concludes from his thesis that Socrates is the turning point and back-bone of world history] if one were to reckon the entire, unquantifiable sum of energy expended for this world-wide endeavour [of Socratic knowledge] and imagine it invested not in the search for knowledge, but in the practical, i.e. egotistical objectives of individuals and nations, then the instinctive drive to live and the pleasure of life would probably have been so decimated by general battles of extermination and continuing migrations that, given the practice of suicide, the individual might have preserved the last shred of his feeling of moral obligation by simply killing his own parents or his best friend, just like the inhabitants of the Fiji Islands: a practical pessimism which could give birth to a ghastly ethics of genocide based upon compassion […]"

Also:

"“whoever considers all this, together with the astounding height of our contemporary pyramid of knowledge, cannot help but to see in Socrates the turning point and backbone of so-called world history”

>>6659807
>Doubting the original translator of Nietzsche's philosophy

PROTIP: Nietzsche's thought evolved over his lifetime. Stop treating him as a fixed, transhistorical identity with a single view on any complex topic.

>>6659876
I posted 3... and here's a 4th one.

Socrates and christianity, moralfags are sign of decline.

>>6659829
>>6659887
Or maybe better said is he views Socrates-the-man as anti-culture and anti-vitality, yet his thinking has inspired an entire history of new culture, beauty, vitality, spirit, etc etc.

Completely wrong. Plato and Aristotle (and in a lesser sense Averroes) were known for projecting a completely artificial order onto the world, despite the fact that the world is far from orderly.

Pre-Plato it was recognized that not only was chaos prevalent throughout life, but that it was also embraced as something that can people can gain from. Thanks to Plato, we now live in a world where disorder is automatically seen as wrong, despite that there's zero indication it actually is. It's also no surprise to me that moralfags hate Nietzsche, despite the fact that the black and white distinctions between good and evil don't really exist, and despite the fact that this is pointed out again and again in just about every era of human history

If the Milesian school had been slipping since the Persians conquered them in the mid-6th Century BC, then Naxos demanded further conquest of Miletos, and finally you had the Battle of Plataea, which probably made Socrates life easier than it might have been.

The Atticans undoubtedly needed the security of a strong 'democracy' (read: structured tyranny) at the time. Socrates appears to have gone to bat for the undermined Dorians.

Knock the "if" off the start of that last sentence.

The Persian Wars map. This is what Socrates missed out on because he hadn't been born yet.

>>6658655
>during which the public estimate of a man always tended to neglect or ignore his biological worth.
Halo effect tho

Warren Harding error