/lit/ - Literature

I get the impression that even the people compiling those lists don't truly believe that Sherman Alexie and Amy Tan are as good as Faulkner, Dickinson, etc.

Also, one of them tried to claim Jean Rhys! She's ours, you cunts.

What is Bloom's 12?

>>6644407
>women writers
Not even once.
(or at least not much more)

>Marquez
>American
Uh...?

The rest of those people who made lists should be gassed. They have zero discernible talent, their minds are addled by oppression Olympics liberalism, they would list Amy fucking Tan over William Faulkner...it just boggles the mind that someone can be such a piece of human garbage.

>>6644407
>borges and marquez on a list of american writers
>toni fucking morrison morrison held as highly as melville, and even higher than hawthorne, faulkner, twain, elliot, and whitman
>Stephen King (why not?)

There are so many problems with theses lists; several authors listed aren't even American, Stephen King is on more than one of them, Gaddis is on only one of them, Junot Diaz is on more than one of them. I feel like the people that made these lists don't have the ability to step back and try and actually objectively look at authors who actually influenced and impacted the course of American literature. Instead they just wanted to throw out names of people they WISH were more impactful and influential.

>>6644439
maybe you should try reading faulker after you've learned to read
>didn’t restrict “American” to the United States, but included all of North, South, and Central America

lotta people in this thread don't know what "America" means

>>6644459
The fact that they included ALL of the Americas is absolutely retarded as if all of them can be mashed together into one hodgepodge of a literary tradition. It's disingenuous to the impact writers like Marquez, Borges, and Bolano have had on their respective literary traditions.

>>6644459
>>6644459
Well that was a silly thing of them to do because restricting it to the only America that matters is a difficult enough task. They're annoyingly inclusive even before they start giving their nauseating lists.

>>6644467
Typically the country but evidently because of the non Americans they included its the continents.

>>6644467
Hmmm, I wonder...what could the word "America" mean when referring to a book written about 12 writers from the USA?

>>6644429
Emerson, Dickinson, Hawthorne, Melville, Whitman, James, Twain, Frost, Stevens, Eliot, Faulkner, Crane

>>6644469
It's disingenuous to think that the US has a single literary tradition and that Marquez, Borges, Bolano et all fall into one homogeneous tradition as well.

>nabokov

>American

His first nine novels were in Russian.

Oh fuck me I just noticed Stan fucking Lee is on one of their lists. A fucking comic book writer is one of the 12 greatest writers in not only the United States, but because of their dumb rush to be all-inclusive, one of the greatest writers of the entirety of the North American continent.

mfw no Bukowski

>>6644497
Well they already included fucking borges of all people, may as well go full retard and throw in Nabokov and Tolstoy as well.

>>6644507
>>>>reddit.com

>>6644496
It doesn't have a SINGLE literary tradition this is true but we're talking about singling out 12 writers who have had the most impact on the course of the literary arts in the U.S. over its lifetime. Also I didn't say that those three should be lumped into one homogenous tradition, as you'll see I said respective literary traditions, plural.

>>6644497
To be fair even Nabokov considered himself an American writer.

>stop liking things I don't like
wahh

>Now, I haven’t read this book, I just read about it, but I have two claims:

>>6644526
>stop disliking things I like
wahh

>ctrl+f hart crane
>one result
>it's an angry comment
What did i expect honestly. At least someone included Walt Whitman. Also zero mention of Ashbery. That Ludwig guy in the comments seems to be straight outta /lit/. If not he belongs here, I like the cut if his jib.

>>6644531
>stop shitposting you cunt
wahh

>>6644526
It's not that. It's stop liking things just for the fact that the author's a woman or a minority. These people have zero fucking taste in literature if they're declaring Toni fucking Morrison the best writer to have come out of both American continents.

>Stephen King
>Harper fucking Lee
>Stan Lee
>Sylvia Plath
>Junot Diaz
>Faulkner mentioned as many times as Amy Tan

Jesus Christ. Every single person in that article should fucking kill themselves.

>>6644407

why do people love Toni Morrison so much? I really liked Beloved and I thought the Bluest Eye was pretty solid but I just don't understand how she could be considered one of the best writers of the 20th century. That seems to be a pretty pervasive opinion, and not just within this small sampling of lists.

>>6644544
Don't forget the gem of one of these chucklefucks actually listing Stan Lee.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who thinks Stephen King is superior to James Baldwin is ten times more racist than Harold Bloom

>>6644467
the Country as everyone knows. They are parodying Blooms list and had to tell everyone that they were using the wide use of the world

>>6644528
It's even more disgusting when it's claimed the author of the article has a PHD in literary studies.

>Stephen King
>Amy Tan
>Toni Morrison

>Now, I haven’t read this book, I just read about it, but I have two claims: 1. if Bloom is arguing that these 12 white (and almost all male) writers.
Oh you internet fried-brain little cunt.
I sort of agree with the Sylvia Plath mentions, if she'd lived longer, she could've easily produced something worthy of the Western Canon.

>>6644568
The only good thing Plath ever produced was in the kitchen

She's one of very few black women who has written some decent books, so she gets elevated beyond her merit.

Like you said, i think she is a decent writer too, but no where near one of the absolute greats.

>>6644577
She wasn't a good cook, ya badly read illiterate!

>>6644555
It actually takes a bit of effort and an eye for nuance to read baldwin. Why do that when you can pick minority writers whose critique comes down to "we're all in this together :^)"

>>6644578
Meant to reply to >>6644551

>Have you read Prof. Bloom's book?

>Of course not! Why would I read the book when all the summaries, promo pieces, and excerpted material (and all my past reading of Bloom) indicates that it's boring, predictable, and racist? I don't need 500+ pages of justification about why only white people represent the best of American fiction. I've read enough of that, thanks.

Jesus, I had such hope when I started reading the comments and it all quickly fell to ruin.

>GOAT slave-poet Phillis Wheatley isn't mentioned once

I'm actually offended

>>6644629
>I'm actually offended
You sound like a good fit for that website

>>6644580
nah, she definitely knew how to handle an oven.

>>6644497

Nabokov hated any labelling. The country thing is especially complicated because of his time in Europe after emigration from Russia and his time in Switzerland after the American period. You could only count his English novels, if all of them, for his inclusion in this list, in my book.

>>6644701
I want to say that kid has good taste for a 16 year old but he's probably a little pseudo-intellectual faggot.

>>6644695
Despite that, I think he did label himself "American," although I definitely don't consider him to be an American, or TS Elliot to be a Brit for that matter.
This whole thing just reveals how stupid nationalism is anyway. It's absurd for "Italians" to claim Virgil and it'll be the same way for the anglo world when the present day US and UK are completely unrecognizable.

>>6644701
lol, sounds like someone is making up a child and looking for non-white guys to read for herself

>>6644713
aren't we all, anon? aren't we?

>>6644701
>16 years old
>reading Henry James

gonna call troll on that one

>>6644713
he's probably on /lit/ bitching about his sjw redditor parents

>no Henry Miller

Do I have to get involved in academia and force feed this sex-god down the throats of all my students to get my man some recognition?

>>6644407
>snooooooze
>WHATEVER

If I asked for great American authors WHY THE FUCK would you give me authors that don't even write in English? Isn't the whole point of these lists to find authors whose work you can relate to?

>>6644729
Henry James is very simple prose dude, and it's mostly a study of people, something anyone can understand. As a matter of fact I was read Henry James during bedtime stories when I was 5 or 6; it's not inaccessible to anyone.

>>6644469
It's also unfair. Marquez and Borges BTFO any American writer (although I have a personal soft spot for Hemingway). Haven't read Bolano so can't comment on him.

>>6644407
Well this looks about as intentionally, tokenistically diverse as a stock photo and--

>if Bloom is arguing that these 12 white (and almost all male) writers represent the pinnacle of American literature

sure enough, there it is. Stop using authors' gender/ethnicity when judging their literary worth.

>>6644729
I read him at 16 and I'm not even native. There are much more difficult authors.

>>6644817
Wait, you mean Henry isn't recognized as a great writer ?

I have a sudden calling of making a short, violent, bloody career in academia.

>>6645030
Henry James is easily on their level.

>>6645078
It won't ever work. Whenever I claim him as my favorite writer, I get looked at like I'm some misanthrope.

>>6644701
>Twain
>James
>Gaddis
>Pynchon

Her son has fucking based taste. He will grow up to be a great man.

>>6644729
We read Washington Square in high school. Probably one of James's easier to digest, but still.

>includes Vonnegut but not Pynchon

>>6645090
>liking Henry Miller
>misanthropy

Why are educated people doing this to themselves ? I don't understand. Hold me anon ;_;

>>6645297
Because educated people like to believe they're more educated than they are. In reality, most of them are plebs with a degree. /lit/ is the last bastion of sanity.

>>6644713

REMINDER: You shitpost on 4chan.

>>6645090

>I get looked at like I'm some misanthrope.

That right there is a red flag that you're talking to a clueless person. The man loved life to an enviable degree. Let the snarky bougies posture, you know what's up.

>>6644490
Hawthorne? Really? Just because all writing was shit in the 1800's in America doesn't mean you have to give a freeby to the one shit head that is force fed into kids minds in high school.

Honestly.

>no Pynchon

Hack.

>>6644519
Who gives a fuck about what that tasteless hack thought? He's not an American fucking writer. He's a piece of shit along with 90% of russian authors (including Dostoy-the soap opera hack- evsky.

>no zukofsky
>no Charles Olsen
>no Ashberry
>no o'hara
>no Oppen
>no Brodsky
>no Wallace Stevens
>no Creeley
>no H.D.
Shit taste, everyone

>>6646510

>that list

Good taste, son. Damn.

>>6646487

>Nabokov
>tasteless

oh i am laffin

>ctrl+f
>sherwood anderson
>phrase not found

wtf

>>6646568
I enjoy him, but he can get too Freudian sometimes

>>6644407
holy shit fucking autistic faggots
it's a joke
it isn't meant to be serious
god damn it /lit/, some /lit/ hater will screencap this thread and show it to all the reddit-like boards of 4chan

>>6646581
Fuck off, bookriot faggot

>>6646583
I never heard of that webiste you fucking faggot
first time I hear of it. It's a meme you dip

>>6646581

>all this sperged out rage over nothing

Anon commonly use the OP post as a jumping off point to talk about other related things. This happens on every board.

How is this new to you?

>>6646487
>>no Pynchon
>
>Hack.

The list appears to be centered around influence more than quality considering Bloom intensely loves Pynchon with McCarthy not far behind. On the other hand, as much as I love Hart Crane (top 3 lyrical poet for me), I wouldn't call him very influential, so who knows? Maybe Bloom explains in the section.

>>6644535
<3

Do you agree with me yet about Hart Crane being a better poet than Keats?

>>6645090
Shame, Miller is amazing and definitely one of the great American writers. Favorite work?

>>6646606
Tropic of Cancer, although parts of Air Conditioned Nightmare are pure revelations. The chapter while he was in Louisiana stands out.

>>6646606
>>6646630

read 'the time of the assassins'

it's amazing

>>6646634
I'd love to, but I've never read any Rimbaud, unfortunately. Where should I start?

>>6646634
Thanks for the rec. I'm in the same boat as the other anon in that I haven't read any Rimbaud yet either.

>>6646924
>>6646630

Yeah, ToC will probably remain my favorite work of his because of when I read it (personal life and first work I read from him). Gonna order ACN now.

I've been meaning to check out the Ashbery translated collection, but I'll wait until someone offers their thoughts too.

You guys should check out "Henry Miller on Writing" and "The Books in my Life" if you're as obsessed with the man as I am. Certainly they're no "Speak, Memory" in terms of literary auto-non-fiction, but they're great if you're a huge fan.

>>6646949
I was so close to picking up On Writing once, but it was expensive as fuck. This was at the Henry MIller Memorial Library in Big Sur which, if you haven't been there yet, you need to get to. It's honestly perfect. I ended up just buying a shirt.

>>6645030
>Marquez
>good

>>6646967

>I was so close to picking up On Writing once

Have that sitting on my shelf waiting for me.
Probably gonna hit it up after some Blanchot.

Don't know if I'd ever buy a shirt of a writer, though. Seems a bit reddit.

>0 (zero) Henry James on any lists