/lit/ - Literature

Everyone knows this

>>6631083
Not Mr. Angry Pants "Marx is the lord" Zlatan Cicero

If you're so fulfilled why did you need us to validate you?

>>6631439
praxis > ideology.

>>6631074
Welcome to fascism, the art of embracing a belief you know to be wrong, because believing is better than not believing.

>>6631474
>implying preaching the glories of ideology is the same as seeking vindication
if you're content to no want to see the light, so be it
you're missing out bro

>>6631773

Isn't that what everyone does these days, those? Acknowledge that our morality has no universality but try to impose it on others anyway?

>>6631794
Nah, the only morality that non-fascist relativists try to enforce is the paradox ethical demand of relativism.

>>6631802

Define fascist.

>>6631439
Zizek isn't opposed to ideology per se.

He just likes critiqueing when political phenomena are ideologically considered apolitical, and when people concede their prejudice, but continue to cynically act upon them.

>>6631838
Oh yeah, forgot to add, Zizek openly endorses collectivism and totalitarianism, at least in an emotional and ideological sense.

>>6631794
I don't. I'm amoral but my power is universal.

>>6631074
It's nice to let your betters do all your thinking for you, isn't it?

>>6631845

>>6631854
>muh radical individualism

This sort of reaction is precisely the reason the West has gone to shit.

>>6631862
Wrong subject, comrade; wrong subject entirely.

>>6631864
back to pol

>>6631854
yeah, it really is

>>6631864

Admittedly, I'm /pleb/. Can you elaborate on your idea?

>>6631951
Fuck off >>>/pol/

>>6631962

Oh fuck, quoted the wrong post. Meant this one.

>>6631845

>>6631966
So beyond moral discourses lie praxes of power within the proletariat, the Universal Class.

Morality is a discourse of shall/ought. Praxis is a power behaviour of, for example, expropriating the expropriators, hanging the bosses with the guts of bureaucrats, etc.

We don't do these things because of oughts, we do them out of naked collective self-interest.

Lukacs on History and Class Consciousness is your starter here.

>>6631785
The picture in the OP is troubling. Are you suggesting a regression to more brutality would rejuvenate society? Is that what all this embrace the spook thread is about?

>>6631951
It's this whole notion of the intrinsic worth and wisdom of the thinking of every single person. It is, as I mentioned, an offshoot of the radical individualism that grew out of Enlightenment thinking. The tearing down of all levels of authority and the elevation of the thinking of every single person has only led to more people being more wrong about things more often, and to all the resultant fuckups that such a state engenders.

The simple truth is that you can scoff all you want, but there really ARE such a thing as your "betters," perhaps not as part of an intrinsic social or political class, but surely as those who are smarter than you, more accomplished than you, and possess wisdom which you do not. These people aren't some lie The Man is feeding you, they actually exist, and every now and then you really should just shut the fuck up and listen when they talk. Not everyone is equal to everyone at this exact moment, and pretending otherwise only leads us all to make spectacular mistakes and generally be miserable.

The whole counter argument is to find peace out of the zeal not necessarily to be safe but to understand that the zeal is not necessary. It throws a lot on a person, effort, responsibility, duty which can potentially harm you or others, or cause you to expend yourself for no reward. The trick is to put your zeal into the mundane instead of the extraordinary, then you get the awesome feel good feelings without the adherence to dogma.

>>6631996
Why are you mentioning it in this thread? We have no reason to assume OP is better than any other poster on here.

>>6631991

Are you that Marxist that earlier called for soldiers to shoot their officers?

>>6632048
I regularly call for that, as do other Marxists.

>>6631992
Is defining things as spooks, a spook? Distancing yourself from ideas, philosophies creeds etc based on Stirners philosophy sounds pretty spooky

>>6631074
It's ok, you can say righteousness

>muh beliefs and muh feelings is more important than reality

OP, are you by any chance a feminist?

How do I get started with ideology? Honest question

>>6632181
Anti-Dühring
History and Class Consciousness
The Frankfurt School
The Looser and Guitary.

>>6631439
Zizek loves Marxist ideology, though.

>>6632208
Zizek is a useless cunt who sells repressive social democracy to bureaucrats in training. "Cut the dusty balls" is not a story told to organic intellectuals.

>>6632198

thanks

>>6632214
The German Ideology might also help

>>6632208
Marxist critique*
Ftfy

>>6631074

Here, have some K

>>6631773
>fascism
What a loser you are.

>>6632227
Marxism is an ideology, not just a critique.

>>6632309
Wrong, it only approves of a certain type of ideology, namely the kind that authentically expresses the self-interest of the working class.

>>6632305
I didn't say I was a fascist, just that OP is.

>>6632309
Marxism is neither an ideology or a critique but a chapbook for the praxes of the class. (Cleaver H, Reading Capital Politically, Introduction)

>>6632323
>it's called CRITIQUE of the political economy
>let's just pretend it's a template for politics

>>6632323
In other words, an ideology.
>>6632315
You mean it is a certain type of ideology.

>>6632326
>>6632327
Do some work with Lukacs eh cunts?

>>6632327
>You mean it is a certain type of ideology
No, I mean there exists a certain type of ideology to which the critique is benevolent, while recognizing it as what it is, an ideology, necessary false consciousness.

>>6632339
>while recognizing it as what it is, an ideology, necessary false consciousness.
Please learn to speak English. That should say
>while recognizing it as what it is, an ideology of necessary false consciousness.
or
>while recognizing it as what it is, necessary false consciousness (an ideology).

Whatever the case, Marxism is an ideology, following the ideas of Marx, hence Marxism.

>>6632336
>ontologizing marxian concepts
Shiggydiggydoo, he still was important for inspiring the Frankfurt School tho.

>>6632362
No praxis, no marxism.

>>6632349
>an ideology of necessary false consciousness
That would be inaccurate, though, as the two terms are synonymous.
But you have a point, marxists probably shouldn't call themselves that, as Marx himself remarked when he said that he himself was certainly not a marxist.

>>6632380
>That would be inaccurate, though, as the two terms are synonymous.
I was just trying to correct your sentence, so my second suggestion was correct.

>>6632365
There isn't a single practical recommendation in Capital though. Praxis has to arise out of the proletariat understanding its predicament, it cannot be prescribed by the philosopher.

>>6632396
Marx felt that it would. Cleaver suggested a reading method (that many workers have previously used). Which is exactly why I termed it a chapbook.

>>6632391
Nitpicking. But two can play that game: you said I should learn to speak the language. In spoken english, the difference between my original text and your correction is nonexistent.

>>6632154
"Reality" is what you want it to be.
With perhaps the exception of basic sensory phenomenons, one can construct/deny anything and live with it.
Appeal to "reality" is a no true scotman of cosmic proportions.

I bet you think you are living in the real wrold with real people. As opposed to the, how to call them : fake? unreal?

Reality is prolonged and collecive illusion.

>willfully locking your mind in a box

>>6632349
why are you even arguing with a marxist in a first place?

>>6632561
She knows something you obviously don't.

>>6631074
of course its great. its an integral part of reality.
there is no place outside ideology.
ideology as part of the symbolic structures our reality

>>6631794
yes, so much this

>>6631838
>>6631864
this, too

>>6631951
would like to add, that sometimes truth lies in a common history, common goal and the like. its a narrative you want to tell. however this narratives sometimes even are all-encompassing and you should identify and abide by them in order to attain meaning. otherwise your just a marginalized, pseudo-freudo-free, postmodern subject that doesnt have a clue about whats going on at all.
however maybe this narrative doenst even exist yet, then its your turn to bring it about.
finally radical individualism is a farce. we speak the same language. were 7 bn now. how much difference can there be? were all pretty fucking normcore. there are questions in life that can only be solved collectively. among those questions are those of identity, meaning and social order

>>6632233
Is this guy for real ?

>>6632136
That's a pretty bad idea. Infiltrating the officer corps would be much more effective.

>>6632722
Nah, that's just substitutionalism.

Memes: The Thread

>>6632916

>>6633017

>>6632916
As he was leaving /lit/, somebody inquired if there was a lot of literature being discussed. He said, "No." But to another who asked if there was a great crowd of posters, he said, "Yes."

>>6633041

>>6632154
reality has literally nothing to say about morals or ethics you idiot.

Feminist lunacy that is contradicted by empirical evidence: there are zero biologically-predisposed differences between men and women in terms of brain function or personality, it is ALL environment.

Ideology that is in no contradiction with reality: I decide that the welfare of my ethnic group is more important to me than that of any other nation or group of people on planet earth

>>6631996

You have too idealistic notions of the people who control the economical situation. They really don't know exactly how the market works (they know the theory but the theory is flawed in neoliberalism) and they always do a guess work beforehand and contact the politics to keep the market flowing, just see the crash in 2007-08 and how they handled it in USA

>>6633044
kek'd/10

>>6631911
>muh pol boogieman