/lit/ - Literature

i'm surprised to see john marco on the fantasy chart
he's the first fantasy author i really liked

what's the castle in the clouds supposed to mean?

Cosmerefag reporting in, happy for an excuse to sperg about the Cosmere.

I'm new to this board so sorry for probably beating a dead horse .

Are Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy a good read? Or are they just entry level garbage for dumb-dumb's?

Also recommend some essential entry level books that aren't garbage. I got really into reading about a year ago and i don't really know where to go next.

>>6610957

About to pick up Dune. I tried reading it a while ago, but didn't make it past page 100. I'm going to give it another chance.

As far as what I've read so far:

>American Gods - Neil Gaiman

It was all right. It really picked up toward the end. I found the main character kind of flat. I know that's how he is supposed to be, but still. I will probably read Gaiman again in the future.

>Lucifer's Hammer - Niven

Probably the best post-apocalyptic novel as far as realism goes (in terms of the science and what would might actually happen if a comet hit us). Not as convoluted and literary as The Road, which I liked. It is a bit dated since it was written in the 70s.

>The Wise Man's Fear, Patrick Rothfuss

Okay. Not as tightly plotted as the first book.

>The Dragon Reborn - Robert Jordan

I like Jordan, especially for his world-building. I don't think the third novel is as good as the first two. From what I've read, it goes downhill until Sanderson picks up the story. It's still good, just a lot more words with less happening.

>Several Star Wars books authored by Drew Karphyshyn.

Fun reads if you like the Star Wars universe.

>>6611289

Definitely not entry level garbage.

Not everyone likes Tolkien, but his world building is second to none. I'm glad to have read these before the movies came out. It's the quintessential quest plot line, and most (if not all) modern fantasy is influenced by it in some way. It's a must read, even for non-fantasy readers.

>>6611317

Oh, forgot to add another.

>The Book of Strange New Things

I enjoyed this one. A literary first contact story. Some things are left unexplained, but it's still a good read.

>>6611094
>what's the castle in the clouds supposed to mean?
You'd have to read Wolfe's "Wizard Knight" to find out.

>>6611289

Lord of the Rings is kind of important to the genre because it sets the tone for everything.

It's got a detailed world, mythological characters, and defines a lot of fantasy concepts that influenced pretty much everyone.

That's the surface level stuff, but it's a good read from a literary perspective because of how it's been interpreted. Tolkien's fantasy wasn't just straight up fantasy, it was deeply-laced with commentary on his values, beliefs and how he saw the world and spirituality. There's plenty of allegory and symbolism in it, to the point where people who treat LOTR as just the baseline for fantasy (See: Peter Jackson) are missing much of the point.

On the other hand it's very long, very wordy, and often very slow. Compared to the Hobbit which is a much more accessible book with more relatable characters, LOTR I think has a lot of trouble breaking free of the mythological aura to show the cast as real individuals.

But then that's also important to understanding the genre too, because that part of LOTR has become detrimental to a lot of books who tried to ape it.

I don't know if I'd say start with it, but I think it's good to read it at some point because it's key in understanding how the genre is the way it is.

>>6610957
>What SF/F books are you currently reading
The Way of Kings, Brandon Sanderson

>Recent purchases?
Assassins Apprentice, Robin Hobb

>Upcoming releases you're excited for?
ASOIAF continuing

pleb I know

>>6611289
Read The Hobbit. Then read other stuff until you get the urge to return to that world. Then read Lord of the Rings.

But yes, it's definitely worth reading.

This is pleb-y as fuck, but what's some good sci-fi or fantasy with a cast of characters who interact, and at LEAST one or two waifu-able female characters who are cool and interesting and are present in the book (or series) a lot?

>>6611352
actually that was why i was asking, because wolfe has used it before in both the wizard knight and castleview, and i'm not all that sure what the imagery originally meant

>>6611417
And New Sun. I'm a Wolfe scholar and I don't even know. Please other anon, do tell.

>>6611398
The Book of the Long Sun

I would follow General Mint in battle.

>>6611398
Firefly.

>>6611424
Yeah you're right, dunno how that slipped my mind
There might be some significance in Severian thinking he sees a castle in the sky, even though it actually isn't one. Haven't really thought of that before.

>>6611440
Same anon, I figure its a symbol of hope, Heaven or paradise.

>>6611498
I agree.

>>6611437
>watch Firefly for the first time as it's airing
>crush on Kaylee
>watch Serenity when it comes on
>River is amazing
>go back to watch Firefly
>Kaylee is annoying and my list goes River > Zoe > Inara > Kaylee
Wonder what happened.

OP here. Thinking of creating a detailed OP with some resources in it. What should I include?

Reposting from the last thread
New to Fantasy/Sci-Fi and really reading in general. Here's my current Summer Reading list

>Black Company Book of the South
>First Law
>Dune
>LOTR
>A Lovecraft collection I picked up a while ago
>A Howard/Conan collection if I can find one in town
>Kingkiller Chronicles

Anything else you'd suggest? I'd like to add some more Sci-Fi to the list.

G O R M E N G H A S T

>>6611698
Sci-fi? Try some Dick & Asimov. Also Neuromancer

>>6611871
after i finish the current book i'm reading i'll start reading the gormenghast books
just as long as that fig from goodreads doesn't show up, i'd be glad if the threads had a few staple works to discuss to death

>>6611698
Read Revelation Space for your sci-fi fix.
Remove Kingkiller Chronicles.

>>6611871
What are those books about? How are they written?

>generals
please /v/

>>6611920
you don't have to open the thread, faggot

>>6611289
They're good.

>>6603367
Because it doesn't have the quality to justify the length.

>>6608603
Gets better with each book.

>What SF/F books are you currently reading
The Road and Perdido Stree Station

>What SF/F books have you read this year?
When Gravity Fails, Book of the Short Sun, The Name of the Wind

>Who are your favorite SF/F authors?
Wolfe, Vinge, Herbert, GRRM

>Recent purchases?
Peace

>Upcoming releases you're excited for?
Winds of Winter

>What is your favorite subgenre of SF/F?
Anything that attempts to be literary, even if it fails.

>What are your favorite interpretations of the Arthurian Legends?
Severian.

>>6610957

>What are your favorite interpretations of the Arthurian Legends?
Easily Barjavel's Enchanteur. Not the most canonical, but definitely the most enjoyable.

>tfw named after an Arthurian character
>tfw taking gf on vacation to Brocéliande

>What SF/F books are you currently reading
about halfway through Rimrunners, 3 books into Chanur, re-reading Blindsight and the Risen Empire duology
>What SF/F books have you read this year?
finally got around to reading Culture stuff, Player of Games was pretty good when it came together, but Excession was my all-round favourite
>Who are your favorite SF/F authors?
out of my limited palette, probably Watts
>What is your favorite subgenre of SF/F?
the hard end of sci-fi

perhaps I'm just bad at finding books, but I need more hard sci-fi

so far I've gone through:
>watts
>cherryh
>morgan
>stephenson

>>6612328
Is there a translation of that?

>>6611365
>it sets the tone for everything

I like how you worded "it is the last original thing to come out in the genre". Tactful, Anon

In this order:
Lord Dunsany, William Morrison, Robert E. Howard, Lovecraft, Jorge Luis Borges, Tolkien, Philip K. Dick, Ursula K. le Guin, Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, Terry Pratchett, Douglas Adams, full stop.

That should get you started and, hopefully, finished. Because everything out there rips these guys off.

>What SF/F books are you currently reading
The Healers War by Elizabeth Ann Scarsborough, 1989 Nebula award winner
>What SF/F books have you read this year?
The City & The City
Mission of Gravity
Mythago Wood
The Wild Shore
Cities in Flight
Her Smoke Rose Up Forever
>Who are your favorite SF/F authors?
Leiber, Le Guin, Zelazny, Wolfe, Robinson
>Recent purchases?
>Upcoming releases you're excited for?
Aurora by Kim Stanley Robinson
>What are your favorite interpretations of the Arthurian Legends?
The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley

>>6611289
No.
hyped trash.
The King of Elflands Daughter
The Worm Ourboros
The Mabinogion
Conan the Barbarian
Jirel of Joiry
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser
The Broken Sword + Three Hearts for Three Lions
All better
All written before or at the same time

>>6611365
>because it sets the tone for everything.
So much of fantasy draws far far more from Howard and Leiber

>>6612245
Severian is an Apollo/Christ/South American god avatar
Not Arthurian
Wolfe has written two Arthurian inspired stories
Castleview
The Wizard Knight

>>6612423
PKD is trash
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/mar/15/sciencefictionfantasyandhorror.philipkdick

>>6611424
Marc?
Btw Marc Aramini is going to publish a two volume book on Wolfe. I'll try to buy it.

>>6610957
I've just started the Book of the New Sun. I honestly didn't think it was going to do anyhting for me but holy shit. I actually cried of joy at some descriptions and phrases. It's just so beautiful and uncanny and Borgesian at moments. I can hardly read it without wanting to put it down and think about it at length.

>What are your favorite interpretations of the Arthurian Legends?
Book of the New Sun and a Pratchett book every two days, bless them pdfs.

>What are your favorite interpretations of the Arthurian Legends?
I've read none, care to suggest something?

>What SF/F books are you currently reading
The Healers War by Elizabeth Ann Scarsborough, 1989 Nebula award winner
>What SF/F books have you read this year?
The City & The City
Mission of Gravity
Mythago Wood
The Wild Shore
Cities in Flight
Her Smoke Rose Up Forever
>Who are your favorite SF/F authors?
Leiber, Brackett, Ellison, Le Guin, Zelazny, Tiptree, Wolfe, Robinson
>Upcoming releases you're excited for?
Aurora by Kim Stanley Robinson
>What are your favorite interpretations of the Arthurian Legends?
The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley

>>6612461
Book of the New Sun isn't Arthurian at all.
The Wizard Knight on the other hand is really neat and too subtitle for its own good.


Also why are sf threads the only good ones on lit? All these wanabee patricians and I'm only discussing literature here.

>>6612461
>but holy shit
we've got another one

>>6612466
Is the Wizard Knight worth it?

It's because people here actually enjoy what they read and the act of reading probably.

the cutest science fiction author ever?

>>6612485
yeah

>>6612464
http://upcoming4.me/news/book-news/aurora-by-kim-stanley-robinson-cover-art-and-synopsis

>pick up random nautical-themed fantasy novel
>don't even look at the author, it's in a secondhand store and the blurb is interesting enough
>read it
>sort of enjoy it
>there's two sequels
>read them
>get so fucking mad at the fucking ending and the fucking asshole author
>look at the author
>it's Kevin J. Anderson

Serves me right. In summation the Terra Incognita Trilogy is shite and probably the worst fantasy novel series I've ever read, not simply because it's bad but because it took my interest and choked it to death and pissed on its' corpse.

>>6612491
>>6612491
>>6612485
And yeah, it's a really solid book. It's grown on me in retrospect a lot.

>>6612504
>only looks at the author's name on the books after finishing three of them
I don't believe you.

>>6612528

No really, it was like a four-month long brainfart. My brain just didn't connect this Kevin J Anderson with "that" Kevin J Anderson.

Then it hit me like a ton of bricks.

>>6612371
Possible.

Most of his SF was

a friend of mine recommended me Lyonesse, i have a shit ton of things to read already, is it worth it?

>>6611698
Replace >Kingkiller Chronicles with something good like Gormenghast or Book of the new sun or the Swords series by Fritz Leiber

>>6612969
I've only read the first one but it's pretty good. I like Vance's unique style.

I'm trying to write a science fiction novel but I'm already stuck on what to do for the first sentence. I'm also stuck on if I should use first person or third person omniscient narrative.

>>6613295

If you've never written before avoid first person like the plague. You don't have a sense of balance yet so it'll either be full of I's or go off on way too many tangents.

Third person is easier, just make sure the perspective is anchored on whatever character you're focusing on, so that way you don't float off into space and end up getting too infodump-heavy.

As to the first sentence, just don't worry about it and come back later. Your first draft is rough for a reason, you'll learn more about writing as you go and you can always come back and apply that knowledge to stuff you wrote earlier.

tl;dr don't worry about getting any one sentence or paragraph just right, your goal right now should just be to write out the entire book and fiddle with it once you're done.

>>6613312
Sorry I explained my situation wrong. I dont know if I want to use
>As the impact sirens blared, Olivia removed the duffel bag from underneath her bed.
or
> Olivia removed the duffel bag from underneath her bed as the impact sirens blared.
for the first sentence.

>>6613333

Second one's better, sounds more definite. As is kind of a wishy-washy word and sometimes people overuse it.

>>6613336
Thanks. I'm probably going to show up more about the wording of my sentences and shit.

>>6613363
Good luck with your second sentence.

>>6613363

It's cool, there's no such thing as a stupid question.

>>6613380
What about this one?

>>6613473

Deep.

>>6611317
Where did you read that Wheel of Time gets worse after TDR? Just curious because I have never seen that opinion before.

I'm working on a space opera thing. I have this idea for a mad scientist type figure. Think futuristic Frankenstein. What do you think of the idea of having him just out floating alone in some solar-powered ship manned entirely by computers where all he does is set the course then go do his mad science?

The basic idea is that he's working on a specific thing that's in violation of interplanetary law and also the mores of his day, and doesn't want to be bothered while he works.

>>6613523
Scratch that, I'm retarded

>>6613525

He'll need characters to play off against.

>>6612450
The Lady of the Lake gives Severian his sword.

>>6612423
Philip K Dick is shit, Frank Herbert has only one book actually worth reading, Terry Pratchett is shit, and so is Douglas Adams.

>>6613909
what one book is that?

>>6613898
Unless I'm forgetting something, no she doesn't. There isn't even a Lady of the Lake in the text. What happens with Terminus Est is a reversal of the Arthurian Lady in the Lake scenario.

>>6613921
Dune.
Though God Emperor of Dune has its moments that make it somewhat worthwhile.

>>6613898
>The Lady of the Lake gives Severian his sword.
The Lady is an impotent old man who tortures people for a living.

Any love for John Wyndham here?

>>6614085
of course, gotta love the day of the triffids, that book probably got me started on reading

There are lots of blogs and recommendations on books or series for fans of "Game of Thrones", but what I'm really after is books that are similar in depth of character / character development. I don't really care if it's scifi or not, but I've checked out all of the common recommendations and none of them really fit the bill. I'm not looking for "epic fantasy" or "gritty setting" or "historical basis" or any of that stuff, I'm just looking for stories with deep, well-written characters interacting with each other. In that context, does anyone have some perhaps off-the-beaten path plugs I could check out?

>>6614125

It always annoys me how people refer to 28 Days Later and The Walking Dead ripping the beginning off each other when they more than likely both got the idea from Day of the Triffids.

>>6614128
i never really realized that, but they really do steal it straight from the day of the triffids, with the hospital after an injury and everything

>>6614077
In most legends Arther gets the sword from the stone, before losing it in the lake and the Lady returns it to him.

>>6614135
No IIRC he tries to fight the black knight but the black knight breaks his sword and merlin saves his life and he brings him to the lady of the lake to get a new one. Also the scabbard for the new sword saves his blood or something.

A swallow carrying a coconut?

>>6613617
He gets them eventually. Early on he's all alone, and that itself provides some of the conflict, but his situation changes quite a few times.

>>6614135
He didn't get it from the stone and it wasn't returned.

>>6613363
I need a word to replace 'put on'

>At the top floor, she put on the hazmat respirator...
I just don't like the way it sounds and I've also tried slipped on, adorned, donned, and harnessed but none appease me. >inb4 just go back to it later It bothers my ocd/perfectionism to much to continue

>>6614237
don, she donned the hazmat respirator

>>6614244
>At the top floor, she donned the hazmat respirator from her duffel bag and exited the cargo lift.

I guess it will have to do but something still bothers me in the sentence.

>>6614281
I don't like "At the top floor", although I am reading this sentence alone and it might fit better in a paragraph. Just a thought.

>>6614301
>She donned the hazmat respirator from her duffel bag and exited the cargo lift as it reached the top floor.

Would this work or should I replace 'as' with 'when'?

>>6614317
That reads much better.

It really is going to take you eons to finish this book if you keep up this level of scrutiny on the first draft.

>>6614327
>first draft

I'm one those of those guys that edits his essays while writing them to avoid multiple drafts. I'll probably write it by hand first, type it up to check for any spelling or grammatical errors, make certain scenes more descriptive if needed, then be done with it.

>>6614351
The longer the piece, the less viable that is. For a book, it's just not doable. Unless you're doing something frenetic like Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, it just won't happen. And even then, Thompson had been writing for a very long time, and as hard as it may be for some to believe, took writing very seriously and worked his ass off at it.

>>6614133
Well even without Day of the Triffids its an effective way to start that type of story off.

>/lit/ has a general now

It's over, next, we'll have general threads for every branch of philosophy, heck, while you're at it why not make a religion general since we hate talking about that so much too.

If you feel bad about your tastes being bullied by anonymous virgins on a siamese stamp trading forum then I suggest you go elsewhere, because this place is not for you.

The worst part is that this won't solve the issue at hand, people will still pollute the board with pointless threads and all that will come of it is to create a hugbox within which you can discuss the same topics over and over again with the same likeminded autists day in day out.

>>6614650
>It's over, next, we'll have general threads for every branch of philosophy, heck, while you're at it why not make a religion general since we hate talking about that so much too.
They have been a thing for a while now newfag.

>>6614650
What is it with you people and this irrational dislike of generals.

There is nothing wrong with them.

>>6614735
Yet they never stick, because /lit/ isn't that kind of board. If you want to circlejerk and samefag your same 4 crappy recommendations ad infinum then take it >>>/out/side

>>6614742
There's nothing irrational about it, any interesting points have already been discussed in previous threads, recreating the same thread with a different picture won't change that.
Not to mention the entire notion attracts denizen's of a certain straight edge website that I won't dare mention in fear of tussling some sanders.

>>6614650
Just hide the thread, nerd

>open fantasy novel
>it has a map

INTO THE TRASH

>>6614650
>next, we'll have general threads for every branch of philosophy
>next
You're a retard. I bet you bitch about summer and /pol/ being here "for the last 6 months".

I'm I the only one who can't read the chart because it's fucking 200x471?

>>6615015
The show has more, and less fun, rape than the books.

>>6615026

I like maps though. They're neat.

>currently reading
Hyperion. Literally just stated.

>what books have you read this year?
I am Legend, The Forever War. And a few other books that aren't sci-fi.

I liked I am Legend, though I wish it had been longer. And that ending, I don't know how I feel about it. It was cool to have it end with the book title, but ... yeah.

I didn't like the constant focus on homosexuality in The Forever War or the way everything gets resolved in the end just because. Like, he doesn't even give an explanation, he just says it's beyond our ability to understand. Everything else was good though.

>>6615347
i love how he became the vampire of the vampires

>>6614281
>Upon reaching the top floor...

Hey guys, I don't really browse /lit/ much, but I'm looking for some fantasy books to read - preferably with a focus on magic.

While your opinions of Eragon may be less than positive, I enjoyed the time Paolini spent on developing the magic system used in the books, as well as creating the vastly different cultures of the various races in the books.

Any recommendations?

>>6612454
I like Moorcock, but he is a massively bitter cunt whose opinion should be taken with a mountain of salt, especially since 80% of his output is trash written for the money.

>>6615347
With regard to The Forever War, I feel like a lot of sci-fi does that when it goes into "big idea" mode.

>>6615180
>mfw read a fantasy series where the author was also a cartographer
>made his own maps
That was really fucking cool and a nice surprise.

>>6615347
Don't read past Hyperion.

>>6611214
What's a good order to read them in? Just go by publication order?

I'm about 50 pages from finishing pic related. Should I move onto Deadhouse Gates, or Night of the Knives? Should I just read all of Erikson's books before Esslemont's? Is there a solid reading order?

I just started reading Blindsight
>Starting your book with a Ted Bundy quote
Hmm...

>>6614650
Fuck literature.

>>6614650
I'll never understand why people are against generals. You get one thread to ignore/hide on a topic you don't care for instead of 20, or conversely you only have to pay attention to one thread instead of 20 on a topic you do care for, what's the negative?

>>6616058
In theory I would agree with you but go to /tv/ or /mu/ and read the general threads there, it's like a super concentrated cancer. People probably worry that general threads are the beginnings of /lit/s transformation into /mu/ or /tv/

>>6615754
I haven't read any of his work but Brandon Sanderson is super autistic about his magic from what I've heard.

What's the name of a two-pronged spear?

>pic related

>>6616502
A three pronged spear is called a trident, so I'd guess a bident would be accurate.

>>6616520
Turns out my guess was right:

"A bident is a two-pronged implement resembling a pitchfork. In classical mythology, the bident is associated with Pluto, the ruler of the underworld, while the three-pronged trident is the implement of Poseidon (Neptune), ruler of the sea and of earthquakes.

Etymology
The word 'bident' was brought into the English language before 1914,[1] and is derived from the Latin bidentis, meaning "having two prongs".[2]"

>>6616520
>bident
What an ugly sounding word. But that's not the droid I'm looking for. It's on the tip of my tongue.

>>6611902
Theyre very Shakespearean, with heavy doses of Poe. Not very fantasy aside from the impossibly huge castle setting, the ability to control animals, and something else thats a spoiler. The author was a painter by trade. So prepare for a guy that 'paints' scenes and characters with prose. Very descriptive & beautiful. Also has gothic influences like Dracula/Phantom of the opera. I think a gene wolfe fan would enjoy the nuances of the plot. A GRRM fan would enjoy the intrigue between characters. Also I swear Rowling ripped off Peake.
1st two books are essential, third book is very skippable due to Peakes mind detoriating early in the writing process and eventually dying. For an ending read the separate short story Boy in Darkness.
Its a tragedy, with themes of Anarchy vs. Tradition.

>>6616536

The lance of Longinus?

>>6615754
Dresden Files? First couple of books are pretty crappy(gets better), but the underlying magic systems are interesting and reasonably consistent.

>>6616041
But he started it with Gourevitch and Hemingway quotes?

I like his chapter quote selection.
>that Æon Flux quote out of nowhere

Guys, can I get some feedback on this piece of Sci-Fi?

I've only written the first chapter.

http://pastebin.com/HGGBzyMd

>>6616872
>Theyre very Shakespearean, with heavy doses of Poe. Not very fantasy aside from the impossibly huge castle setting, the ability to control animals, and something else thats a spoiler. The author was a painter by trade. So prepare for a guy that 'paints' scenes and characters with prose. Very descriptive & beautiful. Also has gothic influences like Dracula/Phantom of the opera.
I read this much of your post (without seeing the context of the thread) and somehow guessed you were talking about Peake without having read his work or even knowing anything about him.

>>6617331
I really quite enjoyed it. Not much of a critique but I'd definitely want to keep reading.
If this were a short story at the end Gira would find out he'd been in the rift the whole time.

>>6616872
Oh I forgot to actually explain the plot part of "what its about" lol
Following a daily system of meaningless, complicated rituals is the "religion" of the people of Gormenghast. Soon Steerpike does a Rash Thing that causes a big paradigm shift in usual way of life in the Castle and the forces of change come to Gormenghast for the first time in centuries and sets the boy on a path of lost innocence.
The protagonists:
young & troubled Steerpike the cooking servant, who uses opportunity, his acrobatic eavesdropping skills, and his wit to rise quickly through the ranks.
Titus, heir to the throne, who like Steerpike is adventurous & rebellious (even in the first book when he's still an infant) although in a less selfish/malevolent way. Doesn't really care for his inheritance as much as the concept of freedom from rules and boredom.
The books strengths are definitely characterization and atmosphere. Muh prose fags will adore this shit. Some extremely memorable scenes too.
I rank it to be on equal ground with Lord of the Rings and Book of the New Sun.

>>6617535

Sadly I have more artistic integrity than to leave it there and make a tweest ending.

Thanks for the positive thoughts anyway, as long as I can write something someone wants to read...I'm happy.

>>6617538
>>6616872
>>6611871
Steerpike REALLY reminded me of Lucifer from Paradise Lost.
Favorite character hands down was Mr. Flay and his cracking knees.

>>6617540
It puts me in mind of Neuromancer and the like.

>>6617560

If I got published and someone referred to me as "This generation's William Gibson", I'd be beyond happy with that.

>>6617565
Good luck with it.
Hopefully someone who actually studies writing can give you a better critique than I can.

Is it bad that I imagine Ardee looking like Remy Lacroix?

How do you guys feel about purposefully incorrect science in your science fiction? The story I'm working on is full of nonsensical technobabble that in no way tries to sound like plausible future science in the way something like Star Trek would do.

For example, in one part the MC is having a space duel with the villain, the space pirate Rocketlegs, who has solid gold rocket boosters for legs. For most of the duel, the MC is just circling around Rocketlegs and keeping a distance. In the end we discover that the MC has been placing tiny machines in the space around them, and when he's finished they form a force field around them, and fill the enclosed space with oxygen. Then the MC turns on a powerful magnet in his rocketcycle, which, now that there's oxygen to carry the magnetic waves, pull Rocketlegs' rocket legs away from his body, leaving his adrift and easy to capture.

>>6617876

It doesn't matter as long as the comedy is good.

>>6617876
It wouldn't bother me that much, but surely you can just make up some bullshit that sounds plausible rather than something that we know isn't right.

>>6617876
>For example, in one part the MC is having a space duel with the villain, the space pirate Rocketlegs, who has solid gold rocket boosters for legs
Would read.

>>6617876
>oxygen to carry the magnetic waves

>>6613523
It's not that it gets bad, it just feels too... spread out? There's too much going on at once, so many substories that it's hard to really get into them. Sanderson came and sort of focused everything.

>>6617331
>he could not abide the idea of.
This is a neat effort, but don't end sentences with prepositions.

>>6617876
I love it, are you specifically making fun of Hugo Gernsback's "educational" stories?

>>6618156

Thanks.

But there's really no legitimate reason you can't end a sentence with a preposition. As long as it's something you don't make a habit of.

Has anyone here read Hyperion? I'm trying to get my sister into sci-fi (she's a fantasy fan; GRRM is one of her favorite authors).

I think she might like Hyperion or BotNS, but I'm curious if the characters are any good. Are they? She likes good characters.

Just reread Trickster's Choice last night, still immensely enjoyed it.

I wish I knew of more books that dealt with spying/espionage in a fantasy setting.

>>6618219
Hyperion is a good choice for her, very character-focused. The characters are varied and there is some good chemistry/interactions between them.

I'm not entirely sure it would be a good introduction to sci-fi, though. It's been a while since i've read it, but from what I remember I imagine it might be quite difficulty to get through for someone without interest in sci-fi, although as she likes fantasy it might not be a problem.

I would suggest 'Dancers at the end of time' or 'Ringworld'.

>>6618219
Better in BotNS than in Hyperion, but not terribly strong in either

>>6618219
The Hyperion Cantos was shit. Maybe if she only read the first book.

>>6618219
Book of the New Sun isn't something you give someone to get them into sci-fi.

What's with the "General"? If you want to discuss something start a thread about the topic.

>>6618709
It's more practical for the people in here and the people out of here for a general to exist. Keep fantasy in one thread so the fans of it can find each other, not let it spill out into the board as five different threads that bother the delicate eyes of the /lit/ population.

>>6618709
You mean like this thread to discuss the topic of science fiction and fantasy?

>>6618709
are you retarded?

>>6618734
>>6618736
>>6618747
Generals are a slippery slope. They've destroyed every board they've touched and lit will be next I guess.

Thanks, fantasy boys

>>6618770
Is it summer already?

>>6618770
If you're going to hang around the pretentious hipster board, the least you could do is make your own ignorant opinions anon.

This book any good, or just another self-insertion masturbation fest?

>>6618770
then just close the thread, you fucking faggot

>>6618847
Good book. Fun read. Interesting lore and world building.

Hard to avoid a bit of the Mary Sue trope when doing heroic fantasy, but it is still a good read.

>>6618847
First book is good, second is average at best in my opinion.

The prose itself is good but the second book has a large amount of subplots that either don't read well or end up being pointless. I liked it well enough at first but on a reread I really just started to hate it.

>>6615977
But Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion are essentially two halves of one book, Simmons said so himself, and it was split by the publisher.

Should change it to "Dont read Endymion"

So I have a few pages written for my sci-fi novel and I just realized that:
>it switches between past and present tense
>it's not very descriptive
>there's no dialogue at all
>not even the mc's thoughts
What should I do?

>>6619020
>pages
>not very descriptive
>no dialogue

How awful. Have you considered writing a play instead?

>>6619027
I could write another play, but to write one under the science fiction genre would feel weird.

>>6619020
stop writing novels, start writing short stories
they're easier to learn from and execute and you're evidently in need of some serious practice

>>6619020
Finish it, fix your problems on the next draft. Repeat process until you have no problems.

>>6619119
^

>>6619020

Any chance you want to compare work? I recently finished my first solid draft of a 6.5k word short story with similar structure(All plot/event/ and little description and dialogue).

>>6619390
>6.5k words
I don't even have 500 words written.

>>6619413

You said a few pages, so I assumed(obviously incorrectly) that it was similarly formatted.

I have mine size 11, 1.5 line spaced in word...500 words is a page for me.

But if you want to pastebin yours or something I'll be happy to read it.

Just got back into fanatasy after a long stint reading the Greeks. I've been reading The Black Company and so far its great, im only on the third book but it hasn't disappointed

>>6619020

Fix it. Fix the tense. Pick past or present and stick with it. Past is better.

>>6619668
So I should stick with third person limited with past tense?

I have a few questions for anyone willing to help me out.

>What's some actually fun sci-fi pulp I should read?
>Is there anything you can recommend that gives a vibe like Pitch Black, especially the ship at the beginning with all the levers and shit required to fly it?
>I've mostly read cyberpunk, though I have read a bit of Asimov and such. Are there any books that can scratch a similar "people on a spaceship" itch to Star Trek and Babylon 5? Are there any shows you can recommend to me that I'll like if I enjoy Star Trek and B5, for that matter?
>Does science fiction often do the whole "15 books to tell one long-ass story" thing like fantasy does? Not counting stuff like Stainless Steel Rat, where each book is a separate adventure, even if they do follow a chronological order.

Basically, help me into sci-fi if I cannot into really dry shit and really care about interesting characters.

>>6619775

I'd highly recommend Altered States, as that has incredibly interesting characters and ideas. However, it may not be what you want from a sci-fi book.

Other more straightforward answers I would give are Gibson, maybe something like Ender's Game.

But if you've read cyberpunk, you've at least read Neuromancer, right?

>>6619788
>Ender's Game
Forgot to say. I've read Ender's Game and the entire Ender's Shadow series. Card himself is kind of a tool, though.

I've read the whole Sprawl Trilogy, and Snow Crash.

>>6619714

That's the best one to start with. Present tense is less weighty and more frantic, and first person requires a lot of experience and balance to get right.

>>6619775
Try C.J. Cherryh. I'd start with the post-Downbelow Station stuff, though.

>>6619987
Been reading about her on Wikipedia. Sounds really interesting. Any specific titles you can recommend? Would it be alright to just start with the beginning of the Foreigner Universe series?

>the Empire is evil

>>6620071
Are you saying you dislike the "evil empire" thing in general, or expressing the opinion that the Empire in Star Wars is not evil?

>>6620071

Empires are evil because they're expansionist. If they're not expansion is, they're kingdoms.

Everyone likes kingdoms.

How do I get into Lovecraft?

>>6620491
houllebecq's biography, shadow over innsmouth, or mountains of madness

>>6620491

Read everything Lovecraft wrote.

Ignore the fanfiction.

I finished Snow Crash and The Sprawl Trilogy awhile ago (those last two books were OKAY at best...) How would I like The Diamond Age?

>>6620491
Mountains of Madness, Shadow Out Of Time

Really, just pick some random HPL story and get reading, it's not like his entire collected works aren't online

>>6620580
How did you like Snow Crash?

I asked Neal Stephenson a question when he did that io9 Q&A a week or two ago, but he never responded.

>>6620591
I think the beginning and climax were pretty strong. The world building was great, but the characters aside from the female lead lacked depth and personality.

>>6620132
>Everyone likes kingdoms

>>6620760

In fiction, not reality.

>>6620760
>>6620792
Personally, I feel the same way in fiction.

I would read the fuck out of some republican fantasy, me. (Small-r republican, if that needed to be clear; not making a statement about American politics here).

>>6620822
The Powder Mage books are just the French revolution in a Fantasy world.

>>6620822

People love kingdoms, because they love royalty for the same reasons: Power, status, role, things that are inherited. A protagonist born into a royal family has a role to play, burdens to bear, and power to wield, yet they also have a wonderful bonus: A lack of responsibility.

If you're a prince who fucks up, you don't have to shoulder the guilt or shame of failure internally, you can just blame it on the nature of your birth. You weren't cut out to be king, you weren't cut out to be the descendant of a great wizard, or whatever. It's the kind of story that appeals to readers because they relate to blame-shifting. We all do it.

Hell, it's the same logic that there's so many romance stories about unlikely couples forced together by circumstance or arranged marriages that turn out well. You end up with a lovely partner but didn't have to find them yourself, and you're forced into the relationship so if the relationship goes sour, it's not your fault.

People who fight to obtain power (Emperors, Warlords), people who are aggressive in courtship (sluts and harlots), people who build themselves up from nothing and become politicians (corrupt fatcats and greedy businessmen, arrogant geniuses), These are the ones we hate. We hate them because they succeeded in bearing the burden of free will and self-determination, while we sink into the fantasies of having power and love and wealth handed to us just for existing.


Aren't humans great?

>>6618847
I don't think that I've ever read a more masturbatory novel. Mc is a character whose sole purpose is being better than everyone in everything. He sings the unsung song, fucks a sex goddess, is taught by the legendary teacher who doesn't teach anyone else... So yeah. It's on the level of an average doctors who fan fiction.

>>6620915
that was a great post

>>6618663
Why not? It's the best sf out there. You don't give it to plebs and le quirky different tumbler chicks.

>>6621163
precisely because its the best
why have them plateau with the first thing they read?
also, to get the fullest experience from it requires knowledge only found through reading the lesser works to death
how else would all of wolfe's inverted tropes be appreciated?
there's also far too many references to mythology, history, and religion to gleaned by a pleb's first reading of it, but i guess the slow discovery of those things would enhance someone's opinion of the work if they managed to pick up on them.

>>6616024
Just stick through the first one, things get much better in DHG.

Are there any bad books in the SF Masterworks?

>>6618847
The very definition of the latter.

>>6619009
Was still shit. I don't like lazy authors.

>>6620032
Rimrunners and Merchanter's Luck were where I started, Rimrunners in particular I liked, but they'd both satisfy your requirement for interesting characters.

Alternatively, her Chanur books. They're kind of odd as far as general sci-fi goes in that there's really only one human character, but they do a fantastic job of both alien mentalities and the difficulties of cross-species communication.

>>6618847
It's a self-insertion masturbation fest.

>>6621318
War of the worlds was pretty terrible.

>What SF/F books are you currently reading
The Last Command - 3rd book in the Star Wars Thrawn Trilogy. I have never touched anything EU and was told this is the best there is. Honestly, it's barely good enough to finish. The prose is bland, the characters are pretty good, but the story is lackluster. I don't feel like there's any real danger to any of the characters. The villain, a supposed military tactical genius, never does anything of note. However, I bought the trilogy and I'm gonna finish the trilogy.

>What SF/F books have you read this year?

Considering I started back reading last year...quite a bit.
- A Song Of Ice And Fire (5 books)
- Stormlight Archives (2 books)
- Kingkiller Chronicles (2 books)
- Farseer Trilogy (3 books)
- Tawny Man Trilogy (3 books)
- Dresden Files (15 books)
- Fool's Assassin
- The Gentleman Bastards (3 books)
- The Strain Trilogy (3 books)
- Thrawn Trilogy (3 books)
- The Warded Man (read 1 book and dropped series)
- Broken Empire (read 1 book and dropped series)
- First Law Trilogy (read part of 1 book and dropped because of RL shit. didn't give a fair chance)

>Who are your favorite SF/F authors?
I don't know if I have any

>Recent purchases?
Thrawn trilogy, Gardens of the Moon, The Eye of the World, Mistborn books 1-3

>Upcoming releases you're excited for?
Next Fitz and the Fool, KKC, Stormlight Archives, ASOIAF

>What is your favorite subgenre of SF/F?
no fucking idea

>WHAT THE FUCK SHOULD I READ NEXT

>>6621416
I would recommend Snow Crash and Neuromancer of you are into cyberpunk at all.

>>6621422
i am. thanks for the rec

im probably going to get shat on for this, but i gave Red Rising by Pierce Brown a chance with extreme skepticism because of the hunger games comparisons, and the first half had me thinking i wouldnt pick up the second book, but its like he hit his stride halfway through. im on the second one now and im enjoying it.its really derivative and can be compaded to a summer popcorn movie, but it does what its meant to do well.

Are there any fantasy stories set like, after the middle ages?

I've been wondering if there's any set in the 19th or 20th centuries involving some of the typical fantasy fare, but set during, or after the industrial revolution.

>>6621551
The temeraire series from naomi movie is set during the napoleonic wars. Not exactly typical fantasy fare, and the historical inaccuracies in some of the latter books in the series really bug me like Napoleon making an alliance with the incas, but it's a really good read imo

Can someone recommend me some HIGH high fantasy? Something where the story isn't grounded in any normal type of reality. Only example i can think of is 2001

>>6621603
thats science fiction you retard

>>6621318
they have way too much PKD

>>6621603
the bible

>>6621603
That isn't fantasy and you probably want to check out Philip K Dick, Borges and Gene Wolfe.

>>6621638
And don't have Gene Wolfe past fifth head of Cerberus.

>>6620915
Then how come I hate most of the Lannisters but love Brienne, Littlefinger, and Theon? Theon specifically because he's working his way back from nothing, and rebuilding himself.

What is dead may never die!

>>6621551
Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrel

Several of the Discworld novels, though admittedly I am not overly familiar with the series and only truly follow the City Watch books

>>6614742
yes there is, look at any board with generals over time and you will see that it becomes more and more segregated into individual generals and non-general threads fall by the wayside until its a bunch of boring hugboxes.

>>6620915
Or you know, people hate Emperors and Warlords because they are inherently far more aggressive than a King is most of the time.

>>6621752
Then split the generals from the nongenerals like /v/ and /VG/

By the gods this isn't hard to understand

Okay, /lit/. I just started an internship at a museum. Some days, it requires a lot of reading. I don't mind those days. Other days, it's a lot of moving shit around. I have a feeling this will become boring quickly, and as such, I want something to read on the commute there and home, and during my lunch break.

What's some good sci-fi adventure, like space-Conan or something? Is there anything like that coming out in the late 90s, 2000s, or this decade, or do I need to go all the way back to the Barsoom books?

>>6621760
Book of the New Sun. Kinda. Not really. It's an adventure I suppose and it is sf and the protagonist has a sword. Don't know anything else. Maybe Chiapas Cain?

>>6621954
>chiapas cain
Mexican version of Ciaphas???

>>6621960
Probably spelled it wrong mate.

>>6621551
Quite a lot, if you include secondary world settings.

China Mieville's Bas-Lag stuff.
I think Adrian Tchaikovsky's insect books would fit that too but I found them to be mediocre.
The Half-Made World by Felix Gilman.

>>6621603
Not sure what you're asking for here. Maybe Vellum by Hal Duncan?

>>6621760
Not in space by maybe Age of Zeus by James Lovegrove? Just don't expect any depth - it's basically a campy action movie.

>>6621268
Thanks for the chart, I'll stick to reading it that way.

>>6612334
>need more hard sci-fi

Greg Egan
Three Body Problem
Rendezvous With Rama
Revelation Space
Ancillary Justice

>>6621753

A dictator is a dictator.

Anyone read Frederik Pohl's 'Jem'? Thoughts?

>>6623018
They're truly outrageous, truly truly outrageous .

>>6623018
>>6623063
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20BZID081Vk

>>6623140
>>6623063
pls

>>6616001
Yeah that sounds fine. I'd start with Mistborn, then Elantris/Warbreaker, personally.

Also holy crap two day late reply sorry.

>>6621416
You read the rest of the Cosmere, obviously.

>>6623324
cool beans

>>6624214
Those three occur around the same time, then Stormlight Archives and the current Mistborn series that started with Alloy of Law occur around the same time, 300something years later. It doesn't matter at the present moment.

It's kind of overwhelming just how many dinky old fantasy and sci-fi novels there are. I walked into a second-hand bookstore the other day and the sheer volume of books was crazy.

And then you think about how some guy probably put years of his life into writing his epic fantasy series, and here they are, gathering dust decades later, bundled into a complete collection with some string for ten bucks.

>>6623324
So who do you think is the faceless immortal?
Sazel doing some nudging?

>ctrl F

>no sapkowski

I am disappoint.

>>6624821
That's part of the charm, though. Imagine you walk in, buy 12 books in a set for what comes to less than a dollar each, and just abso-fucking-lutely love them.

>>6625742
You can't ctrl f an imagine

>>6625799

Yes but the titles are displayed textually, as is mine. That and most people didn't even bother with images.

>>6610957
I'm reading Battlefield Earth. It's a good story.

>>6625716
Faceless Immortals are Kandra. So you're somewhat correct.

Does anyone have any good recs for fantasy that isn't really long and really "high"?

Like a trilogy of books at the most and I don't like feeling i'm reading a superhero story, where everyones throwing around magic and it's giant gods against gods.

Setting wise I don't care aslong as it isn't urban.

I ordered Book of the New Sun the other day and I already own LOTR.

>>6627725

Is two books okay?

There's this lady author named Marie Brennan. She wrote a couple of books that were originally named something else I forget, but are titled Warrior and Witch in the editions I have.

They're not high fantasy, pretty low ground, and they tell a concise story that wraps up with the author stating they're definitively finished.

Basically the plot is that there's a coven of witches who are powerful agents that can manipulate various countries, and the protagonist is a witch. However when it comes time for her initiation it's revealed that when a witch is born, they're born with an identical twin who is put up for adoption in the far corners of the world. The witch has to kill the twin as part of the ritual to attain her title. It turns out that while the witch has all the magic stuff, the other half is basically a superhuman, and often end up in an assassin's guild.

So the story is the witch and her assassin twin getting involved in political disputes and treachery while trying to kill each other.

It's a pretty decent read.

>>6627783
Two books is great, honestly the shorter the better. I can't handle these 12 books series, I just don't want to spend the time on them.

I will check it out, thanks.

>>6625742
I was disappoint in Blood of Elves too.

>>6627725
KJ Parker's standalones (The Folding Knife, The Hammer, Sharps). He has a very unique style, supremely dry humour and autistic attention to details about things like engineering and fencing. Pretty much no magic I can recall in these books.

Guy Gavriel Kay's standalones. I've only read The Lions of Al-Rassan but he has others that are well regarded plus the Sarantine Mosaic which is a highly rated duology. Lions is very low magic, I suspect most of his books are too.

The Ten Thousand by Paul Kearney if you like battles. Don't think it had magicals but it did have other races.

I just bought the Black Company series, The Night Angel trilogy and all the Lightbringer books.
Did i do good?

>>6627815
seconding KJ Parker he's great

>>6627830
>brent weeks
You did very good.

Thoughts on Gaiman's prose? I know his plots and characters aren't usually all that good, but I personally enjoy reading his stuff. It makes me feel like water is slowly being injected into my head until I feel this liberating weight on my brain that forces me to hang on to each and every one of his words

>>6627815
Will check them out, thanks.

I'm reading the Black Company omnibus. Book 1 was great. In the middle of book 2 right now and it's okay but I'm getting the feeling that this shit is going into generic "anti-heroes beats big bad" ending with the chosen one mute kid and all. Am I right?

Quick question: I'm new to fantasy, which of these should I read first
> the shadow of the torturer
> american gods
> Perdido street station
Don't feel like reading Tolkien

>>6628210
American Gods>Perdido Street Station>Shadow of the Torturer
Also, SotT is Science Fiction...maybe

I bought Hyperion yesterday and hopefully it lives up to the hype, it should keep me busy until I get the second volume of Book of the New in the post this week.

>>6610957
Ive read ASOIAF, The Black Company, Lightbringer and Night Angel.
What Should i read next?
What would be the next series that would fit for me?

I read both The Stars My Destination and The Demolished Man recently and I am not sure which I preferred.

What do you think /lit/?

>>6629261
>Lightbringer and Night Angel
Those fucking names

I bought the Grantville Gazettes archive from the 1632 series, has anybody read any of them? do you like the series in general?

>>6629992
What? is there something wrong about the books?
I really enjoyed them

>>6630094
I know nothing about them. They just have really stupid names

>>6628210

Don't bother with China Mieville, he's heavily overrated.

>>6630157

Isn't he also a rapist or something?

>>6630426
Yeah. He's also a commie and hates Tolkien.

>>6630682
I read that as "and hates chicken" originally and was wondering what that had to do with anything.

>>6630682

Wow, seriously? This guy sounds like a party.

>>6630157
>>6630682
>>6630426

I just tried to order one of his books but the shipping got fucked up and I got refunded. What do I get instead?

>>6630682
His name IS China. It'd be a betrayal of conventional norm if he isn't a commie.

>>6630682
>and hates Tolkien.
a lot of new wave and new wave derivative writers hate tolkien though

>>6630986

How do you define new wave fantasy anyway?

>>6631052
it's kind of a merger between postmodern thought (like social constructivism, the rejection of objective values and morals, cultural determinism, etc) and modernist experimentation (stream of consciousness especially, in works like a storm of wings and dhalgren). it was something of a reaction to the pulpy works that proceeded it, too, and the hard science (for science fiction, anyway; fantasy's equivalent would be tolkien largely, because he fleshed out the mythology and worldbuilding aspects of the genre, though dunsany largely proceeded him in that regard) that followed that.

as for fantasy specifically, it usually boils down to a rejection of the typical roles found in the works. no longer does the valiant hero from earth leap off to save his bride to be from the dangerous man-tigers of mars, laser sword in hand. instead it becomes the drug-addled, milky-fleshed emperor with a propensity for melancholy and tragedy or the world-weary soldier and sometime sophisticate.

>>6631052
>>6631241
to continue (in a hopefully more clear manner): most of the vocal ones, like moorcock, mieville, and harrison, seem to form their vendetta towards tolkien on the pastoral nature of the lord of the rings. there are verdant fields untouched by industrialism and the hobbits are happy in a way epicurus would envy. there is a clear binary between the hero and the villain: sauron living in an ashy wasteland of unending pain and toil, mount doom looming like a menacing welt on the horizon at all times. great jagged mountains that fence out the grass and the light and the water. the heroes exist in cities and towns populated by arcadian figures who just want to dance and smoke and sing songs in the woods. and in the end of course good triumphs over evil ('in this hour i do not believe any darkness will endure', etc) and even tolkien himself found his unfinished draft concerning the resurgence of the enemy too disheartening to finish.

it's all very campy, for lack of a better word, and new wave fantasy (what little there is, because it's largely a movement centered around soft science fiction) generally sets out to turn these tired tropes upside down.

for the record: i really don't like the new wave movement and my own biased opinion on it might be doing more to diminish it than explain it.

>>6628203
Fucks a goddess and turns into a god

The End

So I'm gonna be writing a Sci-Fi novella soon. What are some books I should read for inspiration? And I mean non-genre books of course.

>>6631368

Dianetics.

Reading this at the moment.
Just picked up for the cover to be honest.

>translations

Yeah, i know but so far only one story was atrocious.

>>6631368

You could go read some books about physics, time travel, and black holes and stuff.

>>6631368

Cannibals and Kings, The Selfish Gene, The Wisdom of Crowds, The Principia.

alright. I'm tackling Book of the Short Sun next. already read New & Long.

tried out Latro in the Mist but didn't really enjoy it much.

>>6631405

Latro is a good read if you are into Greek history and mythology. It really reinvents the whole genre, and gives the finger to the vast majority of sword and sandal authors who do a tenth of the research.

>>6631368
the aeneid, the elegant universe, and thomas more's utopia.

>>6631405
how far did you get in latro?

>>6631420

finished the first book. I just get the feeling that I need to be reading the thing with a greek mythology compendium at my side. I didn't really "get it".

>>6631454
read the histories of herodotus too if you haven't

>>6631405
>I'm tackling Book of the Short Sun next

Get ready to cry. Its so fucking sad.

>>6631857
I'm glad I'm not the only one who had to blink away tears at the end.

>>6631903
My puppy died when I first started reading Short Sun. So when Horn realized the lander was Auk's I burst crying, had to put the book down and cried for hours after that. Its a powerful novel either way, there are so many sad passages about getting old and friends dying, I would have still wept even if I didn't lose my dog.

>>6631924
That fucking sucks.
The lander scene and the scene where Horn speaks with Silk in Blood's shattered mansion got me all teary eyed.
It really is a great book.

>>6631949
Over all its super sad because its all a letter to Nettle. Or when Horns talks to his dad. Short Sun is meant to relate to the odyssey, Horn back in the Whorl seemed to me to be like when Odysseus went to the underworld to talk to Achilles. That last book was like a man going through the afterlife.

>>6631967
I've always wondered what Nettle thinks of the identity of the writer. And what happens after they leave for the Whorl again, assuming they reach it in time.

Yeah the dad scene wrecked me too. Same with meeting Mint again. And the little paragraph in the second book where Horn wakes up over Hyacinth's corpse. Pretty much all of the Whorl, really.

I hadn't really considered the third book through that lens but I agree with it. It's an interesting observation and parallel.

>>6632021
New thread
>>6632021

goodnight thread

>>6632009
Responding in new thread.

>>6631241
>>6631295
Well that does sound awful. If only because anything based on social constructivism is awful.

>>6632364
>anything based on social constructivism is awful
Oh, come on. Constructivism vs. essentialism isn't actually a cut-and-dry debate where there are two neatly organized "sides" to the issue. There are lots of nuances and lots of specific topics to discuss. Money, for instance, is basically entirely a social construct. It only has value because people agree that it does, and it only exists because we make it for the purpose of assigning value to it. When you get into things like race and gender, there's a lot more controversy, of course. Then when you look at things like chemistry and such, the language we use to describe it (and hell, how we visualize and conceptualize it) may be culturally constructed, but the actual events being described exist independently of cultural concerns (assuming the outside material world exists, of course).

So when you say "social constructivism is awful," what you really probably mean is "people who believe social constructs a larger part of human life than I do," or more specifically, "people who believe some specific thing I have in mind is socially constructed when I strongly believe it's essential" are awful.

To be honest, I don't want to get into the specifics of your or my own views on what things are or are not social constructs (or that do or do not arise through some post-structuralist "performative actions").

In the unlikely case that you were discussing constructivism as an anthropological approach and espouse some other one, then fair enough.