/lit/ - Literature

Marxism

BTFO
T
F
O

Tony Robbins basically buttfucks the theory of alienation.

>>6596015
BG built his wealth on monopoles and later on defend the liberalism(in the american sense) that he shitted on for so many years and tries to buy back a soul by giving his dirty money away to the poor africans

>>6596051

Despite the grammar this is surprisingly accurate.

>>6596051

I think it's that he was the typical businessman: competitive, maybe cynical, politically apathetic for the most part. Then, after he had made a lot of money, he decided that he wanted to attain a different kind of success: he wanted to be recognized as a philanthropist. So he started to give money away. He cultivated a reputation of generosity, which allowed him to feel good about himself—and his accomplishments—in a different way. He could say: "Not only have I been successful in the computer industry, but I've also given back . . . " It's neo-liberal ideology which, of course, preserves the status quo and doesn't do anything to truly help anyone; it mainly provides another ego-boost for an already ego-inflated rich person.

>>6596188
i don't want to be a rich businessman, that is why i am not successful

FUCK the RICH

>>6596200
Good straw man buddy.

Did he earn his all his money through his own work? if not he exploited someone somewhere down the line

I mean he seems like the good guy now but you should remember the awful shit Microsoft did to fuck with its competitors two decades. Also the fact that profit is....

>>6596188
So how do we know when the person is giving back money out of their free will?

>>6596015
He must have built with his own hands a whole lot of computers to have made so much money

If anything he disproves the hand that moves

>>6596188
so thought provoking
not actually

>>6596233
by that logic absolutely noone except self-employed hunters exploit someone

>>6596188
Try reading a damn book, nigga

>>6596300
>with introduction by Bill Clinton
ahahahahahahahahahahahah

>>6596299
which is why we need Marxism

>>6596299
yes, class struggle is a real thing

>>6596015
Do bears shit in the forest?

>>6596188
Yeah neoliberalism sucks, the USSR did so much for Africa. All must kneel before this picture of Marx and acknowledge that he was the greatest man to ever live hurr.

>>6596336
You do know who fucked up Africa from the start don't you?

>>6596336
>refers to USSR
>attacks a post about Marxism which did not reference Marxism
>strawman
>memeposting

>>6596347
Aficans

>>6596188
>>6596245
>I mean he seems like the good guy now but you should remember the awful shit Microsoft did to fuck with its competitors two decades. Also the fact that profit is....
indeed, this is the libertarian doctrine, that only the ends now matter, not the means.

THe philantropist part is quite a fallacy as well, given it is ineffectivity. This wealthy persons are proud of themselves in saying that they spend billions each year towards so cause, that they choose, while de facto, the problems persist (since they continue to give). If they really wanted to solve the situation, that they judge as problematic, they would stop this charity business and use their money to make drastic changes in the society, instead of patching some detrimental situation that they helped to create

The entirety of the world and history disproves Marxism. That's why it's only supported by academics and undergrads who are isolated from the real world, or else individuals who want to take advantage of socialism for their own benefit.

>>6596370
What about movements like Blue Labour, which aren't Marxist but definitely leaning toward socialism?

>>6596317
THAT OR COMMON SENSE
ECONOMY SO COMPLEX
WHY DOESNT EVERYONE JUST HUNT OR CHOP TREES
HUE HUEHUE

>>6596347
Black people

>>6596370
>That's why it's only supported by academics and undergrads who are isolated from the real world
America is not the world

>>6596393
Actually, it is

>>6596188
I would say it does much more than simply sustain present relations. It engages with them utilizing new techniques which are extraordinarily valuable in shaping working class conceptions (which are already by and large humanistic) in such a way that material critique is undermined by the personal saintliness of key controllers of capital.

If Gates was just some soul-less cunt, it'd be difficult to defend against a critique of a sector of political economy which has done much to ingratiate itself into the productive spaces of society. Digital tech needs such figures to make its restructuring of society that much more fluid.

On the one hand you have Gates and Zuckerberg, the boy next door types who just awshucks are trying to help the world. On the other hand you have Microsoft, Facebook, salesforce, Sysco and company who are creating tactical urban centers which are populated by a labor elite which is pacified into willfull acceptance of capital (because its sexy, because its smart, because its the future).

These guys are destroying entire regions. Look at Seattle, the California Bay Area, New York. These are intensive hotbeds for what the next formulation of political economy may look like. Segregation and population restructuring shrouded in "revitalization."

>>6596370
>what is the european welfare state

>>6596401
I always think how ridiculous it is that "radical" intellectuals receive their salary from the state

/lit/ is the most easily trolled board in which I've been a regular user and that includes fucking /mu/.

>>6596407
As opposed to businesses?

>>6596411
I dont understand what you mean

>>6596188

>competitive

Billington is anti-competition hence why Microsoft was built with a strategy that went after monopoly status.

>>6596416
You're saying because they don't work for the private sector, it's a joke that they're "radicals"?

>>6596300

>intro by Bill Clinton

dropped

>>6596423
He had to compete with a lot of people to achieve that.

>>6596188
>preserves the status quo and doesn't do anything to truly help anyone; it mainly provides another ego-boost for an already ego-inflated rich person

>market liberalization, micro-lending and NGO work in the global south has brought literally over a billion out of absolute poverty and beat UN development goals

>Against Malaria Foundation has saved tens of millions

>capitalistic mechanisms coupled with altruism are doing more to bring the periphery out of poverty than any revolution, central planning, or import substitution industrialization could hope for

The world is measurably better because of scary evil neo-liberalism, and men like Gates bolstering the progress of society is incredibly commendable. To ignore decades of development economics because it shows a clear falsification of the initial socialist thesis about liberal markets is the definition of ideology.

>>6596300
>sittingstanding: how ass calluses can save the world

>>6596398
you're in for a hell of a surprise

>>6596428
No, it is basically the same if they work for a private institution. First it is necesary that radical thinking causes you to be martirized, if you hold a "radical" opinion and yet not only you have a stable job but you are actually admired and published, your opinions are not actually "radical", since they dont result in any real effect.
In the best of the cases they will go on a couple of demonstrations and sign some petitions and manifests each year and call that "action" and "political compromise", lol

>>6596473
Just about every possible opinion is widely published by someone, what are you talking about

>>6596468
globalization
monopolar world
cultural imperialism
americanization

American culture is accepted worldwide as the standard, that is a fact. America is the center of rotation of the world

>>6596051

>Hey Jonah I'm your new weight trainer, what do you want to focus on?
>Fucking my shit up, fam

>>6596015
no. get this gross looking faggot off my /lit/

>>6596478
Graphomania (a mania for writing books) inevitably takes on epidemic
proportions when a society develops to the point of creating three
basic conditions:
(1) an elevated level of general well-being, which allows people to
devote themselves to useless activities;
(2) a high degree of social atomization and, as a consequence, a
general isolation of individuals;
(3) the absence of dramatic social changes in the nation's internal life.
(From this point of view, it seems to me symptomatic that in France,
where prac-tically nothing happens, the percentage of writers is
twenty-one times higher than in Israel. Bibi is, more-over, right to say
that looked at from the outside, she hasn't experienced anything. The
mainspring that drives her to write is just that absence of vital content,
that void.)
But by a backlash, the effect affects the cause. General isolation
breeds graphomania, and general-ized graphomania in turn intensifies....

>>6596399
Why cant the left just accept that willfully restructuring property relations, let alone state planning, has been a dead doctrine since the 70s?

>>6596504
Because killing other people and taking their stuff because it's to your advantage and their detriment is a universal human behaviour that must find different outlets in this age.

Personally I'm for a return to the old methodologies.

>>6596444

worthless charity like the kind Gates is involved is the main reason we have no monuments or monumental institutions anymore. it's the reason we can't undertake great projects like the moon landing or building the panama canal today. all this money is being pissed away into bottomless charity pits that never amount to anything. most scientific research is a double edged sword. let's say these people actually cure cancer, or the worst forms of it. now you have the second or third major cause of death in the developed world taken completely out of the equation. suddenly we've dropped below the replacement rate and have a famine epidemic

people like Gates were never meant to have this kind of material success. they literally don't know how to justify it in any moral sense. so they throw it all over the place, a little here, a little there, and it helps them sleep easier at night. someone with a nobler mind and a better head could take these billions and build you a completely different world with it. but these people are more interested in preserving the mess we have here. we could have an outpost on Titan by 2070 with the money currently entrusted to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and billions to spare for other great projects. but we won't have any of that. what we will have is bowls of rice in Nigeria, flu vaccines in Cambodia, and slightly less shitty schools in Detroit. it is such a colossal waste of concentrated capital. the effort required to amass that much wealth is something you see once in a generation, and it is absolutely tragic to watch it go to waste

no empires, no monuments, no grand projects, no new cities or countries, no great institutions. just a few lives that are slightly better. like giving 1 dollar to every wretch in the world

fuck charity

>>6596544
Maximum euphoria.

>>6596348
did anyone watch Inherent Vice?
thoughts?

>>6596558

nice argument m8. I really liked the part where you used a subtle ad hom attack

>>6596392
>>6596355
stay you oh stay you /lit/
disregarding this is /pol/-tier
speaking of which
>>>>>>/pol/

It is harder for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

>>6596575

>implying there is a kingdom of god

>>6596589
You're going to hell

>>6596015
lol no. Go read Marx.

>>6596610

i'll see you there m8

>>6596626
Looking forward to our next encounter buddy

>>6596356
>they would stop this charity business and use their money to make drastic changes in the society, instead of patching some detrimental situation that they helped to create
this written in the fucking sky so everybody can kill the rich and the money

>>6596631

>tfw shitposting from hell

>>6596300
so, demagogy has its bible, how cute, so philanthropy has passed from a human act of kindness to a destructive sect? I need to read news again

>>6596410
they are not in the mid of being trolled or trolling, everything here is taken literally and studied seriously, you hardly can make someone frustrated or mad, just say lord of the rings sucks or ask for a book recommendation saying that you like things like narnia to get a better result

>>6596544
I have never thought of this and I appreciate you for provoking this interesting idea which I completely agree with. It certainly doesn't help that people like Gates are praised as magnanimous humanitarians. If the sound sleep that his 'charitable' acts are providing does not serve as enough motivation for him to keep on as he is, then the praise from those who value life to an excessive degree will. I see your argument as being potentially provocative when placed before the unreasonable and I look forward to seeing the reactions it elicits.

>>6596544
10/10
greatness > mediocrity
I'd rather have povetry and greatness than humanity being ok at everything

>>6596703
>>6596691
>>6596544
The samefag posts are almost as bad as the initial post

>>6596711

stay blasted m90

>>6596544
This would be approaching true if charity was a "bottomless pit" that wouldn't measurably decrease poverty and bring more into the functioning economy

Which is empirically not true.

Read a fucking book. Collier, the bottom billion, The Life You Can Save, Singer

For fucks sake

>>6596544
a) Bigger projects are for powerfull people, if you pay billions for RESEARCH the cure of every kind of cancer, which are the people who can pay FOR the cure?, therefore
b) any direction the charity money takes in a massive amount will conclude in the same lulzy part of capitalism, margination and class system
c) the idea of charity is help to equality

>>6596736

>more people brought into the functioning economy
>level of basic sustenance increases
>poverty line moves up
>suddenly we're right back where we started

try Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell

>>6596736
you give a poor man one million dollars and the fucker gets a rich bussinessman with billions at his name or does he buys a house a truck, shittons of whores, children and drugs and ends poor and fucked at age 60?

>>6596745
Absolute poverty is a product of hold-over levels of development from pre-industrialization. It is a specific phenomena that will be gone eventually, and everyone brought out will be newly capable of investing, writing, creating, and taking jobs at NASA if they're smart enough. Holding back on charity pushes back that date, and decreases access to such things.

That poorness is relative, and it hardly follows from that that subsistence level people should just be ignored If they can legitimately be uplifted.

Read literally any development economics book from the last ten years.

And Gates has no where near the capital to build space bases. You sound basically unfamiliar with these topics.

>>6596269
Anon's point is that merely giving back money doesn't do much, no matter what the intentions are. Because it's about the situation, conditions, and relations rather than money.

>>6596760
Fucking christ these people are thick headed.

1. Gates, nor few else, target "poor fuckers" in the American sense, they target the poorest of the third world poor, who are there because of a lack of capital, not because they are just too drugged out to advance further. As is plainly evident from the marked increase in GDP per capita from the 100s to 14k after they decentralized their economy.

2. Investing in the poor has one of the highest economic multipliers and returns on investment measurable. The idea that the poor just remain poor in better cases is observable untrue.

>>6596769

By the time Bill and Melinda both die the foundation will have an endowment of approximately 100 billion dollars. The ISS is sitting right around that level, and it has to be actively maintained in geosynchronous orbit around the earth. A hard outpost on a stable moon would be much less costly from a materials and maintenance standpoint. The most costly part of the entire operation would be ferrying materials back and forth to Titan or wherever.

100 billion in today's money would certainly be a good start at any rate.

>>6596789
>who are there because of a lack of capital

and why do they lack capital? these are some of the most resource rich places in the world.

government corruption is the real issue.

>>6596806
This is like having a conversation on literature with someone who says "why do you care about the phrases and stuff so much, if the story's good that's all people care about"

It could literally only be said by someone who has either not studied the topic in any serious sense in their life, or has basic misunderstandings of foundational topics.

>>6596789
seems that you can't get the magic words in your mind let me give you a clue, begins with E and ends with ducation and adaptability, if a society can't handle the changes and can't get an evolution of mind deserves to dissapear
>muh edgyness
go call Darwin a fucking edgy assholes

>>6596810

well then why don't you enlighten me Mr. Liberal Economist who thinks we could make African farmers into MIT scientists with a little money and education

>>6596806
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson_controversies#Financial_ties_to_African_leaders

>>6596812
and I forgot the point, do you really believe that a situation like Africa or South America that has been worked though centuries can change? the change comes through the people, you can't help people know about astrophysics when they believe flu is a demoniuc act. The real point is, every phylantrhopic (I hate that word in english goddamit) action is pure and simple marketing, you egocentristic fuck go to your first world mall and buy a goddamn plush toy thinking you are helping little koala bears to not fucking die, if anybody here in this world is a monster I bet is not a bussinessman

>>6596812
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_on_Inequality

>>6596854

exploded for over 200 years m8 and btfo by Nietzsche repeatedly

>>6596812

>>6596860
I'm not seeing an argument here, just "my value system > your value system"

>>6596864
because humanism is a natural behaviour in nature

>>6596860
Nietzsche was BTFO by John Milbank

>>6596860

>>6596745
Yeah man, just read some talentless hacks I mean /pol/ approved blacks.

>>6596269
They're not. There's no such thing as free will.