/lit/ - Literature

>tfw you realise the other people defending getting a liberal arts degree are defending only getting a BA
>tfw they aren't all going to phd like you
>tfw they are just going for a four year degree in fucking poetry analysis and trying to enter the workforce

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING

STOP IT

STOP IT!!!

>Plan A
Publish the greatest novels of the 21st century
>Plan B
Drink myself to death

rail lines of it

>>6563824

>tfw you realize that going into a liberal arts phd is possibly even more useless than getting the BA was in the first place

>>6563815
nothing i have to learn programming now :(

i didn't get one

i do wish i picked computer engineering and not civil engineering though

oh well...

>>6563829
He'll realize that in 5-7 years.

Just let him live the dream until he's 30 and useless.

United the divided Burger King houses into the Burger Empire, expand its territory into the Levant.

Worst case scenario I go back to college for a few years to qualify as a secondary school teacher and hate my life until retirement, at least I get good holidays

>>6563815
The same things I've been doing since I graduated from college -- getting drunk by myself and fapping to the sound of faceless Internet girls masturbating. I will also continue to entertain the fantasy that I eventually get to work on that screenplay that's going to win me money and fame.

>>6563815

I'm going to do my PHD and hopefully get hired back here at the University I am doing my undergrad at. The faculty here all seem to really like me and are super supportive of me, so if many of them are still teaching when I get my PHD I have a good chance, my GPA with this department in particular is 3.9ish and I am graduating with the highest honours, devote a ton of time to my work and am devoting my time to niche which I believe is going to be gaining allot of popularity in the next little while. Even if I fail I will have at least gotten a fair amount of time doing what I love before the bad part of life comes.

>>6563923
amen brother

Go into accounting

Get a sweet job because I studied computer science and know how to program.
mfw

>>6563815
Getting my english lit degree, TEFL cert, and fucking off to Asia to teach little yellows.

Ok, in my country there is no such thing as liberal arts in any university, but everybody from america keeps talking about it like it is the most useless degree.

So i must ask: what the fuck is it?

>>6563946
Some schools offer a degree that combines courses from several different disciplines in the humanities and sciences in a poor attempt at giving someone a rounded education.

But I guess liberal arts degree can be taken to mean any degree in something like English literature, history, philosophy, etc.

get my phd, then struggle to become a professor

Get my writing/literature BA, one year postgrad teaching, teach secondary school english, write on the side, get masters in creative writing, publish novel.

I can do it lads, I really can.

>>6564002
You can publish a novel. That doesn't mean anybody is going to read that trash.

Become a policy analyst.

>>6563981
So it is basically a condensed collection of humanities. And i was thinking it was just fine arts but for underachievers.

>>6564006
I am aware. But I think I have sound ideas and I can almost execute them. Give me another year or two of writing and I will be able to.

>>6563815
I graduated from a t14 LS. I'm 28 and I make about $80k/yr. I have a BA in history!

Not much I can do.

>>6563928

> "...highest honours..."

> "...allot..."

>>6563815
Throw it to the thrash can.

>>6563815
>6563815

Take the parchment and deposit it to a nearby waste receptacle.

The usefulness of a Liberal Arts degree seems to depend on what specific degree.

Liberal Arts disciplines like Library Science and Museum Studies have a pretty clear career path

>>6564109
This path
>>6564072

>>6563941
>hey that's a comfy sweat -- WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON WITH HIS NAILS

Nothing.
I already have a well paying job in a practical field, and am only doing my philosophy degree as a hobby.

Mock defeatists... with big words.

I threw mine away the day I got hired doing retail.

Work in a fucking meat department while writing the next great American novel.

>>6563824
lol getting a phd is a bigger risk overall. if you just hop in with a BA you can get a decent desk job at least. a phd won't help you get a better desk job and you have to spend ~7 years getting it. basically unless you become a prof (very unlikely) the phd is just placing you 7 years behind a BA, with you possibly also having enormous debt

>>6564384

many people have a career and get their phd at the same time

Probably just military for a handful of years, I don't know. Maybe see if I can't teach English in some Eastern Yuro country. Or become a farmer or something. I don't know if I'm supposed to seek out the comfy life or if I must let it come to me

>>6563842
This.

>>6564052
What do you do exactly?

Slit my wrists with it.

Do philosophy in my spare time; lie and/or dissemble to the vulgar about almost everything.

Everyone is so concerned with how much money a degree can get them that they forget to get their degree in something they love. I could live in my car as long as I have the ability to read and write. Nothing else matters.

>>6563815
>>6563829
>>6563842
>>6563981
>>6564072

Well meme'd!

Join the Air Force.

>>6563825
I like your plan, anon.

>>6564085

Spell check and I are good friends when I do academic work.

>>6564384
I've looked over the academic assignments of many graduate and PHD students on the webpages of universities, and it is'nt uncommon for 90%+ of those who get PHD's to gain teaching positions in Colleges and Universities, many of them start before they even complete their PHD.

>>6563944
That's what I did. It turned out pretty good.

I went to a liberal arts college, got a useful degree, and took writing classes as my electives. Now I have a useful diploma and the same class experience as the English majors.

I'd love to be a novelist some day, but I'm not so deluded that I'd stake my future on it. Getting an English major if you don't want to be a professor or a journalist is dumb.

Starve to death.

>liberal arts degree
top pleb

>>6564672

mate that's insane and truly not at all accurate. It is around 11% of current phd's in the humanities who are on tenure track. most of them are slogging away in departments that are progressively losing funding due to the fact that nobody cares about the humanities anymore. they then finish their phd, struggle to get a position anywhere due to the huge numbers of people now getting phds and then they accept a position as an adjunct somewhere teaching occasional lectures and getting shit money. if they manage to get a job teaching courses they are forced into a marketplace where they have to continually publish or else they will become useless to the university and lose their position. entering into a phd in the current climate, unless you are incredibly gifted and well-connected, seems fairly useless. I work in a bookstore and there are two dudes who are almost 40, still working on their cultural studies phds, 0 job prospects on the horizon and they'll have a resume with zilch work experience on it for the two middle decades of their lives. don't do it or you'll end up in some backwoods tiny college teaching 5 courses for shit money and a time commitment that will prevent you from doing any of your own research thus ultimately rendering you useless to the university's business plan.

>>6564716
lel
how many times has this been posted?
Is this a meme now?
Or are you so eager to find attention in a manchurian cartoons imageboard?

>>6563815


Intelligence and Analysis, plausibly in the financial sector.

Comboed Lib-Art (Philosophy) with Political Science. Job market could be a lot worse, overall I'm breddy happy with how things went.


Rant Below:


90% of the problem with a lib art degree is that people need to be able to clearly express how it offers the employer some benefit or some unique tools they couldn't easily find elsewhere.

For instance, with philosophy you could hammer on the fact that you deal with breaking down and combining abstract phenomena, and that it makes you a more rigorous, creative thinker.

If you were an English major, you could discuss it from the human angle; you spent four years focusing on subtle symbolic cues and tells in your reading to determine underlying themes and motives. Therefore, you'd be great working with clients, etc. etc.

STEM [In this case, I mean specifically scientists and engineers; mathematicians are in their own very unique place] have a more rigorous, more direct path, though their mental toolkit isn't right for every set of problems. Portray yourself as someone who can fill in where they lack (abstraction, interaction) and help them bring their projects to completion, and you'll find many organizations that would be enthusiastic to have you aboard.

TL;DR

Don't pretend that entrepreneurial intelligence is contained in a degree, its our responsibility to develop it in combination with our faggy, yet compulsively attractive lib arts degrees.

>>6563834
can you please elaborate i'm a civil engineer student.

>>6564717

Where did you get the 11% from ? Or your information in general ? I've researched into this a fair amount and talked with faculty members, and while they admit that it isn't easy to get a nice job, I've yet to hear someone speak so pessimistically about it as you are. Mind you I also said only teaching positions, not tenure, I don't care about tenure, only that I make a living in my field. I have heard about the problem of having to constantly publish, but that doesn't worry me either.

>>6564782

I work with several phds, I have had long discussions with profs I'm friends with about the prospects of jobs in the academic life, I have friends with/getting phds, and I have read a couple of books about going into grad school.

The problem is that so many people who get BAs in the humanities these days realize that they are in a cluttered field with few job prospects and they arbitrarily decide to get a phd because they assume it will lead to a job which just means that there is now an overabundance of people with multiple degrees.

Presumably be a liberal artist

>>6564797

That's odd, all the schools I am applying to for Graduate studies admit 20 or so people a year in my department, I figured that they did that so to avoid the problem you mentioned. My main goal is to get to a PHD level of competency in my subject, I guess I'll just have to work that much harder if I want the consolation prize of decent employment.

>>6563815
Finish with flying colours, take a Phd somewhere down the line and if I can't get anywhere in academia or fail to get anything published at all I'll simply fall out of life, bong in hand

>>6564676
any more info on this?

>>6563928
>devoting my time to niche which I believe is going to be gaining allot of popularity in the next little while

>gender studies in literature

>Not having arable land and a villa where you can go live growing food for yourself and reading.
You all sound as if you're going to die if you don't land a 9 to 5 job.

>>6565782
Dont tell them dumbass. Theyre gonna get all the land.

>>6565785
I doubt they even know there is such thing as arable land let alone how to grow crops, plant trees, cut vines and make wine.

The modern person only knows life in an apartment in a city where kids are amazed that milk comes from animals and veggies don't grow in the supermarket.

>>6563825
well plan B is out of the question for me because I'm too poor to buy this much alcohol.
>plan C: shoot up a mall

I'm going to do journalism, motherfucker.

>>6565750
You got this shit figured out, anon. Throw in queer theory and you'll be fucking rolling in mayonnaise.

>>6563944
>>6564676
>>6565682
Embarrassing. Losers.

>>6564505
this. I've been living on milk and pic related for two weeks but as long as I can shitpost and read i'm ok with it all.

>>6564106
>>6564094

>>6563923
You only fap to audio?

>>6564155
that's the disease/disorder that drove him to suicide :)

>>6563923
keep living the dream for the rest of us wage-slaves

>>6565820
how so? it's cheap, pays well enough, pussy's hella easy, a relatively tumultous environment to give life experience and invigorate your pieces, and a lot of downtime to read and write
what's not to love

>>6564085
>having a spelling mistake is worse than proof reading a post for prescriptive mistakes

>>6563815
With my degree ? Prob a master in germany, my middle term goal, already spent a year oversea in france.

I'm gonna try to get into an assistant teaching program for french in germany straight after my degree in 1 year. For me it's a good opportunity to better my german and just get more cultivated all around.

1 thing at a time, I never cared for straight up house in the surburbs career path.

I'm getting a degree in sociology btw, with german and phil courses here and there.

>>6566023
>pussy's hella easy
I'm sure the only pussy you got was from prostitutes.
>pays well enough
Don't make laugh

>>6565824
Keep hitting those macros friend. And remember your body is only ever 6 months away from being competition ready.
>/fit/ over and out.

>>6566023
You sound genuinely retarded, exactly like the people that I imagine teaching English overseas.

>>6566043
Talk about an argument. Hopefully you're not just projecting your deep fear and desire for traveling and actually wrote a paper about the retardness of english teacher last semester.

not the guy youre responding through between

>>6566089
>Talk about an argument
How's that relevant? Are we engaging in academic discourse. Go back to reddit if you want formality, you retard.

>projecting
Into to psych terminology. Congratulations. Why would I be projecting when I live in Europe and can travel whenever I want?

>deep fear and desire
Nice mediocre psychoanalyzing. You seem quite clever with your perspicacity.

>wrote a paper
Again, stop trying to intellectualize this [encounter]. You're equally as retarded as the other person.

Overall: try harder, retard

>>6565782
I can't believe someone took the time and effort to draw this picture. I mean, who wakes up and decides they're gonna draw a pepe near a Greek building with the appropriate greek dress and beard?

>>6563824
>He's going all the way to PHD

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?!!

STOP IT!

STOP IT!!!

>>6566043
not that guy but
is it a sign of retardation to want to teach English overseas?
why is that you think only retarded people want to do that?

>>6566145
how it is now's
how it always was
that's on my blood

>>6566110
>try harder

No u

>>6566141

>>6566172

you must accept that unfortunately the average /lit/ poster is stupid enough, and ill-read enough, to believe in the values of a materialist life that revolves around career advancement and a family

you'd think this board would be the place to come for that kind of discussion but it's just not. everyone here is just as obsessed with money and getting a stable career as every other awful board, hence the terrible taste in literature that everyone on here has.

>>6564758
>Intelligence and Analysis, plausibly in the financial sector
how'd you manage this with a phil/poli sci degree? did you land any internships? how did you go about finding/applying? whats the story bro, i'm a junior phil major and need help not being homeless upon graduation here

>>6566260
You do realize teaching English in Southeast Asia is for stupid people that did poorly on college

>>6565782
>>6566223
Now do an Aztec and Mayan pepe, pretty please.

>>6566350
I don't do them but I hope some Pepe artistè makes more.

Paint illustrations to Lord Tennyson's poetry. Why is that even a question?

>>6566350
Pretty shocked there's no Moses pepe with the frog plague in the background.

>>6564002

What uni are you studying? That sounds uncomfortably like my life plan...

>>6565750

I would never degrade myself like that.

>>6563825
This.

Does no one else want to go into copy-editing?

>>6566350
one quick google search yielded this

>>6565802
My grandparents live in a small (<100 pop.) village in Europe where they grow crops, make their own wine, get water from a personal well, and raise a few cows.

I wish my life were so simple. I appreciate that it's hard work and all, but Hoc Erat In Votis and all that.

>>6565750
>>6565819
>>6566465
I wouldn't either; I was being ironic but it seems to be working for a lot of people. The newest Phd in my English department defended her doctorate application with a thesis on gender in language.

And it was not the grammatical gender topic - stuff like in stallion - mare; baron-baroness or something with a suffix -ette indicating that it's a female person, researching suffixes` origins from Latin / French etc.
It was a full-blown topic on gender roles in language and differences between the way men and women converse, which would have been a great linguistic topic if male privilege was mentioned as a basis for every speech act.

If we had a gender studies department it would have fit in there nicely.
All the reviews of the committee that was to decide whether to grant her the doctorate degree mentioned that a big part of their positive decision was because this is a topic which is not widely researched in our English department.

Her thesis seemed a bit shallow and reminded me of a study by a woman linguist which was mentioned in one my my Pragmatics lectures; it was on women forming their speech in a way that always leaves statements open to opinion;
like: 'The weather is great, isn't it ?' - "isn't it"
Which the author mentioned was because women were insecure, however, further study, in fact, showed that it was because women are more considerate of other people's opinions and feelings.

Seriously, if you want to advance in academia you might have to cast aside your values and ideals.

>>6566600
Europe isn't a country, you dolt.

>>6566573
Thanx, that's some rare quality pepe indeed.

>>6566573
Damn, this Pepe stuff is getting pretty good.

>>6566600
The good thing is that it's hard but rewarding work which when you measure it will probably not amass 8 working hours. You are connected with the land (if it is yours) and you can see/use/eat/drink the fruit of your labour.

>>6566616
>there are no villages in europe

>>6566616
I never said it was. I didn't want to tell you what country they're in so that I can keep all that arable land to myself ;)

>>6566671
I absolutely agree. My grandfather said the same thing to me and I couldn't agree more. It's such a beautiful little place too. If things don't work out with law school and whatnot, I might just move there.

>>6564413
I'm an assistant da in south texas

i switched to a business major after my first semester

>>6564717
>>unless you are incredibly gifted and well-connected,
>mfw i am

>>6566387
University of Auckland, NZ.

Not too surprised tbh. I thought long and hard about how to achieve the ultimate literary lifestyle and this was the best path I could come up with.

>>6563824
>tfw they aren't all going to phd like you

Top cock

>>6566141
not to mention plato and aristotle in the background

get a master's degree in an employable field.

>>6566573

Can I save this rare pepe?

>>6568099
What year you in, buddy? Fellow Auckland BA student here

>>6566367
underrated post

for ulysses, have him be talking to an empty room.

>>6566610
interesting subject tbh. not sure if i would look into it much further than what you have described though.

i think insecurities definitely play a role despite the further study showing it is because women are more considerate.
i dont think it can be one or the other

>>6566326

But it still works because white skin = best English serves a treat, so don't worry. In fact many of the better students over in the more educated regions of southeast Asia have far more proficient with the English language; it's just the skin bias that the lil brown chinks have got

>>6564844
>8
>>6563824

Getting a tenure Professor position is the Literary Nerd equivalent of being the NBA basketball star or playing the NFL
basically:
It's unrealistic and you need a backup plan. several, that can support you for your entire life

not that I'm any less unsure of what I want to do
>/lit/ says do Humanities which you adore but /sci/ says you gotta STEM to contribute to society and make that money
>interested in both Humanities and STEM

>>6563815
Don't know yet, but I'm planning on grad school, so I'll get to postpone the decision a little longer, along with entering the real world.

>>6563825
Doing B will make everyone think you did A. Just leave the manuscript out in the open or something.

>>6566141
>Implying you expected more from the internet

>>6566281

Look at your school's clubs and organizations, as well as certificate programs. Pick one that's related (or only tangential) to your area of study; once you're the only 'X' major in a room and still doing good work, you're doing it right with a lib art degree.

For me, I was lucky, I had a certificate program that focused on analytics, and phil majors are rare in it. Good luck with your job, m8.

>>6566326
>on college
ah, the beautiful irony
but more seriously
>stupid people that did poorly
I can some great degree with some high gpa, but what if I want to go traveling and spend enough time in a place to really appreciate it? Have to get a job, won't I? Is that not one of the simplest, most /lit/ job (read: steady pay) one could choose overseas?

intending to get into copy-writing and translating

absolutely nothing, I got it easy. I don't know if you know or not, but I am a Van Huert. Big name in the wealthy community, we are descendants of descendants who built this country. I will advance my education in political science, and shimmy my way up to Prime Minister with just mentioning my name. Chou, I want to enjoy my private jet.

>>6568099
>tfw i might have taught this as a GTA at UA.

Who are your tutors and what courses are you taking?

Become a NEET of course

>implying i plan to work ever

>>6568540
>tfw the paramedics threw away your masterpiece to be published posthumously

>>6563815
>Getting a liberal arts degree
>not STEM
How does it feel to make less money and contribute less to the advancement of society?

>>6570248
> actively malevolent paramedics
My only weakness!

>>6570266
Whatever price is good if in return society is worse

Teach High School English and try and get some pleb kids to care about Shakespeare

>>6568946
>autistically pointing out a solecism caused by autocorrect

Kill yourself.

>I can some great degree with some high gpa
>ah, the beautiful irony
...

If you're trying to teach English -- and do it well -- then you won't have time to travel. You obviously don't care about teaching. Who honestly wants to experience some impoverished Thai village in the mountains? You're just a tumblr faggot suffering from the retarded wanderlust syndrome.

>literally romanticizing living in poverty in Southeast Asia

Topkek

>>6563815
Who is this cum kaleidoscope?

>>6563815
Who is this jism prism

>>6570399
You're just spotting memes at this point

Take a break from 4chan for a little while and you might be able to change your negative mindset

I wish you the best in life. Hope you find happiness

-T

>>6563815
I'm a writer on the marketing team for for my local uni's outreach center

>state job
>benefits
>vacation days
>my own office
>got the job 3 months out of school

Keep writing and learning shit about marketing and stuff.

>>6563815
I'm finally well enough to where I can just study for pleasure. So jack shit. It just adds value to my life.

>>6571034
Kill yourself

>>6571068

Kill yourself

>Finish BA in English Lit because it's what I love
>Spend 3 months getting my TESL
>Travel the world teaching Euros and Asians English
>Spend free time reading and doing illicit substances
>Possibly choke out something of literary merit along the way
>Return home with several years teaching experience, having travelled the world and picked up at least another language
>Spend my late 30s-early 50s yelling "THE WHALE IS A METAPHOR" at high school students
>retire to my tiny house and spend the rest of my days doing coke, writing and going senile

That's the ideal plan anyway

>>6571313

that's a bullshit life
have fun making NO money
major in STEM

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU PEOPLE NOT MAJOR IN STEM

Teach.

I prefer this kind career/lifestyle.

>paid vacations
>lesson planning
>retirement and health benefits
>ridiculously strong union
>milfs to fuck

Seriously, why don't more people consider teaching? Plenty of career jobs out there for the Social Science and English majors.

>>6570292

History teacher here. Do you ever collaborate with the history teachers? For example, if I'm teaching Industrialization, you assign The Jungle, or if I'm on the Civil War, you assign The Red Badge of Courage or Uncle Tom's Cabin.

Common Core is moving in this direction, I would be interested to know your thoughts.

>>6571322

I would have, but I have dyslexia, which if you know anything about dyslexia, it really fucks you over on the whole math thing. But with a liberal arts degree, I am still able to become a contributing member of society, despite my dyslexia.

>>6571332
What sort of education system do you work in where they let teachers decide the curriculum?

>>6571322
Because money =/= happiness/satisfaction

Because I actually enjoy teaching and analysing literature

Because there's more to life than being a glorified tool

Don't get me wrong, science can be beautiful and is absolutely essential to our way of life I just don't find any part of the scientific lifestyle appealing

>>6571338

But it doesn't affect how you read?

I will never understand why everyone doesn't major in STEM unless it's laziness
seriously
>>6571339
#1 reason I didn't become a teacher and major in LA
you can't decide what to teach, a teacher really serves no purpose anymore because of how automated and mandated learning is
the only reason teachers exist is because students are too retarded to just do everything online

>>6571342

>being this ignorant
You're just bad at STEM subjects

>>6571352
I'm also terrible at polo because I have no interest in playing it

Your point?

>>6571342
>>6571313

SO TELL ME
SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T I BE A TEACHER if I'm pretty good at all subjects
living in the good ol' state of S.Florida

>>6571360
Teachers make shit money, work 10 hour days and are expected to do unpaid extracurriculars

Unless you actually enjoy teaching I would recommend a different line of work

That being said, if you do enjoy it you'll find it can be really rewarding

>>6566260
What is the answer to living in modern society then? Or what is your answer?
I wish I could go full Walden, but that path seems filled with obstacles that prevent any ejection from the system.

>>6571376
I have no idea if I enjoy teaching I've never done i suck at talking in front of 5+ people though and earned a C in a Speech class

>>6571346
>But it doesn't affect how you read?

No. My dyslexia affects writing, not reading.

>I will never understand why everyone doesn't major in STEM unless it's laziness seriously

Do you realize most CEO's, and fortune 500 company CEO's, have degrees in Liberal Arts. I am not making this up, you should look it up.

>#1 reason I didn't become a teacher and major in LA
you can't decide what to teach

Not true anymore. Common Core has completely changed this. Teachers have more freedom than ever before to teach the kind of sources they wish to teach. I was trained in Common Core during my time in the credential program at CSULB. If you would like, I can answer any questions you have about Common Core.

>>6571346
>a teacher really serves no purpose anymore because of how automated and mandated learning is
>the only reason teachers exist is because students are too retarded to just do everything online

You obviously have never been through a credential program or understand the dynamic of education or differentiated lesson planning. Until you have witnessed how differentiation improves the quality of education, you can't really speak. Your argument holds no water. There are at least a dozen of my students who have special kinds of needs in, from which I must attend to those learning needs on the fly, almost instinctual. A computer program will never have this capability. Education is truly a human institution, with both successes and flaws. You need to learn to accept that

>>6571346

>American "teachers" can't decide curriculum
So are you people just babysitters?

>>6563815
win the lottery.

>>6571376
My mom is a teacher, it really is a shit job. Students are entitled little twats anymore. They really don't care about learning, they just want you to give them the test questions so they can pass. If you ever fail a student, your bosses give you shit because they think it means you failed as a teacher, but they don't ever take into account most students are just worthless wastes of jizz anymore.

>>6571408
That's what a lot of amercian teachers basically are. They give you this cookie cutter textbook that decides everything for you, you tell them not to masturbate in class or fall asleep, that's about it.

Better schools will have the teacher/prof decide their own curriculum, but most state and public education just does whatever the text says.

>>6571405

>>6571360
>>6571388
here
I have some questions
What's the certification process like(how does it differ state to state I'm in Florida)? Do Education majors/minors go through a different process? After certification, is it just a matter of applying to schools and getting interviews like a regular job? Is there a trial/training for most schools before you have your own classroom?
Is it difficult to talk for so long in front of so many kids?
Thank you

>>6571339

I work for Long Beach Unified in California. We practice synergistic education in connection with Common Core Curriculum. This allows us to have the "freedom" to present whatever materials/sources we wish, so long as they are in connection to Common Core. Which is great, because if you read Common Core, it requests you teach thinking learning skills. Our district doesn't care what sources you use, so long as you collaborate with other departments, and teach thinking skills. In my case, being a history teacher, I have to teach the historical thinking skills. However, I have found amazing success with a few of my English department colleagues. For example, when I was at the point in my Unit on "slavery" the english teacher had assigned chapters to read in Uncle Tom's Cabin. Both the English teacher and I worked together to create an Essay question where students had to use literature skills, and historical thinking skills. In short, they used primary sources mixed with literature sources to answer the prompts. It was a success, most of our students did an amazing job on their essays.

>>6571422
Most student's have a "But but....THIS IS HARD!!!! I don't like this!" Attitude. Most never seem to grasp, yeah....no shit it's hard. That's why you have to go to college to learn it. That's why you'll be making more money, because you'll be doing something that not everyone is capable of doing, that's whats going to set you apart from all the other fry cooks and box stackers out there.

>So what are YOU planning to do with your liberal arts degree?

White girls with daddy issues.

>>6571433
First off, I am a history teacher. This chap>>6571422 does not know what he is talking about. My students and I treat our history text book as just another secondary source, as if it was any historian making an argument. Because that is what history "is", a running argument backed by evidence and interpretation, my students understand this from day 1.

>>6571433
>What's the certification process like(how does it differ state to state I'm in Florida)?

First, I am not familiar with Florida State Standards. I know for a fact, your state legislator and governor are apposed to Common Core. Don't take offense, but the rest of the country sometimes looks at your state and shakes their heads. You are somewhat goofy down there when it comes to anything "new".

I will speak for the California Credential process. You will be required to take a total of 48 units, over 3 semesters.

1st semester (15 units) 5 Classes 1 TPA'S
2nd semester (15 units) 5 classes 1 TPA'S

Final semester (18 units) 1 class 2 TPA's

The final semester/class is your student teach semester. Here you will be assigned a master teacher at a school where you will actually go and teach for 20+ weeks out of the school year at a local school. Think of this as internship.

After you pass everything, you will have 4 years to find a full time position, in which you must teach for 1 full year. Afterwards, your credential is complete and permanent.

You will also be required to take, in California, a CBEST exam, as well as a CSET exam

The CBEST is a basic exam testing writing, reading, and math.

The CSET is a subject exam, depending on what subject you will teach, ie. math, social sciences.


The TPA's I mentioned above are these very long and tedious State exams/projects, ranging around 40+ pages long. You will submit these to the State and be graded on a 4 pnt. scale. 1-2 is fail, 3-4 is passing.

>>6571467
OXBRIDGE
X
B
R
I
D
G
E

>>6571477
>My students and I treat our history text book as just another secondary source

So because YOU do it, that means everyone else does huh? Shut up faggot.

>>6571493

Not going to lie, you made me laugh anon. I'm sorry you didn't have me as teacher. You would have been great arguing in my class, and I would have supported it (so long as you stuck to the evidence).

>>6563815
improve the liberal arts degree

is anyone else watching this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cohGnwXnAjQ

>>6571422
are you from the midwest

specifically Michigan?

never heard anyone use "anymore" the way you did outside of MI

>>6571516
Close....Ohio.

>>6571529

29th in education, and no ELL problem. Your state is a joke.

>>6571512

I'm watching it now. Thank you anon.

>>6571529
so close! well my mom is teacher in michigan and she gets paid and treated like dick as well

>>6571433
>Do Education majors/minors go through a different process?

Same process.

>After certification, is it just a matter of applying to schools and getting interviews like a regular job?

Yes, but I'm not going to lie, I graduated from one of the best credential programs in my State, this helped me land a job very quickly. (Some of the professors I know are on the education board that write the AP exams for our state). So, try to get into the best program available to you.

>Is there a trial/training for most schools before you have your own classroom?

Yes the last semester of the credential program where you will teach for 20+ weeks.

>Is it difficult to talk for so long in front of so many kids?

Everyone is different, personally I don't find it difficult. However, by the end of the day, you do feel exhausted... like a mental exhaustion.

As for "talking" I personally favor lesson plans that have the students working in group activities, where I can assess their work and communicate with smaller groups. I don't lecture for 45 out 55 minutes. I know some teachers who do this and they are just EXHAUSTED by the end of the day. There are better ways to teach than just having students take notes on a powerpoint.

If you keep powerpoints to a minimum, and let the students discover the knowledge themselves in the work packets, they will surprise you.

>>6571516

Michigander here.

Never heard the "anymore" used as you mentioned.

However, "bolth" for "both" is very common, very common indeed.

>>6571516

you been into the cough syrup again, son?

Positive anymore occurs in some varieties of North American English, especially in the Midlands variety spoken in parts of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Kansas, and Missouri; its usage extends to Utah and some other western U.S. states.[2]

>>6571619
really? i hear it often. live in ann arbor. 'bolth' fucking annoys me, didnt realize it was specific to us

>>6571634
i took a lot of cough syrup one time when i was a teenager and it was strange

>>6571545
Yeah, well I pile drived your sister in the ass.

>>6571654
I would too, if I lived in Ohio.

>>6571685
You'd pile drive your sister in the ass too, if you lived in ohio? Alright....cool man.

>>6571529
Please do us all a favor and never leave your containment state.

>>6571585
>>6571477

Is an education degree so important? I'd imagine that it gets your certifications out of the way even on a minor level but can't imagine anything more

>>6571754

It depends on what you want to teach. Depending on what kind of credential you want, you will need to take the necessary coursework before you get into the credential program.

For example, I have a social science credential, therefore I had to take these course.
>pics related.

You can do this as you get your B.A or you can do them as a graduate student. If you choose not to do the course work, you MUST take the state exam to become certified. I did not have to take the CSET because I completed all the course work.

Another great advantage on completing all of the course work is:

>Your credential is nationally recognized. I can teach in any state I choose, with no restrictions.

>>6571827

2/2

You need to start looking at credential programs to see what requirements are needed. I pulled these pictures from the CSULB website.

>>6571827
>>6571831

>what you want to teach
toss up between English/History
honestly considering a major in both though, I'm not very far from a double major either in terms of credits
wondering if I should pin an Education minor as well

>>6563815
I don't have a degree

I never went to university

>teaching in American to US kids
>not teaching English abroad in Japan/Europe
Why?
>>6571313
knows whats up!

>>6571847

I would find out who the English advisor, History advisor, and Education advisor is, and schedule an appointment to meet with them. This will clear up any questions you have. Also, the advisors will create a semester by semester plan for you.

Good luck though amigo, it's a very rewarding lifestyle/career. Not going to lie, it will be hard work the first few years you start, but once you have a nice collection of lesson plans created, you can recycle them with ease. In other words, the job gets easier the longer you do it.

>>6571313
lol! I actually know a few people who get those traveling English teaching jobs. You don't even need to be a English major, any degree and being able to speak english is good enough.

But yeah, all those guys are usually the biggest fuck ups in the world and they do spend the whole time over there doing drugs and banging asian chicks/ladyboys. Then they come home and continue doing drugs like uh....forever.

So yeah, pretty well thought out plan dude.

>>6571754
>is an education degree important?

Well...the educations part isn't'. Teachers are usually failures, they didn't get to do what they wanted because they were retarded and settled for teaching.

All you have to do is basically google and make copies.

The overpriced paper from the Degree Mill, yeah it's important.

>>6571949

>>6571754
>Is an education degree so important?

Important if you want to be an elementary school teacher. Otherwise, focus on 1 subject and get a single-subject credential.

>>6563843
Underrated post

I'm 18. How hard is an English degree, honestly? What's the worst it gets?

>>6572060

You will read 1000+ pages a week and write 20+ page essays before its all over.

>>6572067
Is that for a bachelor's degree? 20 pages sounds like a lot of work. Might just skip the degree and go apply at Subway.

>>6572076

Haha, you millennials are a joke. You see education as a means to an end. Skip all that beautiful knowledge and exciting literature because you have to sacrifice a couple late nights of reading and writing. It's higher education man, do you think its going to be easy?

Nevermind, go make my sandwich.

>>6572067
I dont think this is true.
I've met plenty of faggots with lit degrees who weren't even vaguely literate. I knew someone who wrote 20 pages over 6 months for a final project.
and I met someone who did a degree in indonesian literature but never learnt a word of indonesian.

I think it is a sham and they just ask you to talk about feelings.

>>6572067
ha what

I got assigned maybe MAYBE 100 total pages of reading a week

>>6572101
that's because education is a means to an end. education no longer enriches the mind in any way that the internet cannot. maybe australia is just shit tier yet happens to have world class universities. but when i went, you get projects to do and things to read. then you go home and do those projects using the reading material. I see videos of engaging lectures in american movies and feel jelly that there is nothing like that in my country.

they say this teaching style, of learning facilitating, where they dont talk to you but instead give projects is new and teaches critical thinking. I think I can learn much better by just staying at home and reading whatever I like. of course it might be hard to find a job if i ever need to explain what I've done for 8 years and no work even though i'm doing exactly the same thing that someone with a PhD in the arts would have done.

university is overly glorified.

>>6572135
Well, it used to be the only place you could go for higher learning was the university. These days, you learn anything you want from the internet. Students are fully aware of it, most have an attitude like "If I really wanted to learn this, I could do it by myself, hell you assholes are probably teaching the wrong shit anyway, Just give my damn degree and get this joke over with."

Students suck yeah, but most colleges suck also. I think we have to seriously rethink how education should work, but it'll be a good 20 years before we do.

>>6572135
>I think I can learn much better by just staying at home and reading whatever I like.

We all know that is just an excuse to jerk off and play video games. Nice try. Teenagers are such delusional liars. Your physical brain has not even fully developed yet.


>university is overly glorified.
Enjoy your shit life.

getting a degree in ecology

the job placement will be tremendous right around 2030

(:

>>6572135
Big difference between sitting at home reading what people discuss on /lit/ and actually studying the canon and writing academically rigorous essays about shit

I got into med school with my flawless gpa because i could just bullshit the arts courses and dedicate my time to the pre-reqs.

Stay mad, butt-losers :^)

>>6572114

I'm sorry you didn't get into Harvard.

>>6572149
>implying academia has rigor anymore
it has ceased to be a matter of pride and instead become a comercial entity. the paper is the valued product, there is no concept of cultural capital, contributing to an institution to enrich not only the students but the nation as a whole.

>>6572158
but at a university the lecturers have shit tier reading perspectives of their work anyway. and the whole goal of undergrad is to figure out what your lecturers like and like that too.

I'm 25 now, i studied for two years when i finished highschool at 16, I worked for a bit in sales and then i quit working at 20 to go full hikki. I've read over 5000 books in that time. I honestly dont know if i will ever stop being hikki.

>>6568331
Oh hey. Third year here.

>>6569744
Only English Im taking this sem is 230 and 101, also taking a couple philosophy papers. This is my last chill semester, next is all stage three.

>>6564638
what MOS?

Get my TEFL and teach English to cute Korean kids

Publish erotica so I don't starve before then

Kill myself when I feel my mental faculties dying

Watch a lot of movies and pretend I understand them

>>6572898
Topkek

>>6563825
these can't be your only two plans

>>6572427
sweet as. I taught the eng gen ed reading/writing/etc for 1st years back in the day. who do you have teaching you and what are their names. I prob have mad gossip to spit. Tons of jan Cronin stories as well as about Michael Neil and others

>>6572427
also does cameron mclachlan still tutor there?

>>6572427
or manon for that matter.

From what it seems, everyone's just basically fucked.

>>6563815
Retrain in a STEM subject.

>>6572135
>education no longer enriches the mind in any way that the internet cannot.

kek, stuff like this is why I can never take STEM drones seriously.

For the Highschool Teachers
Are you working towards a professorship/would you make that change?
Also if you're a teacher, how much do you currently make and how livable is it for now and the future?

>>6572135
get out of here kiddy

>>6566659
Mate you don't have the faintest clue.

>>6574194
He wrote like working for the military-industrial complex.
How stupid of him.

>>6572135
You have it right. That Gen X fag you replied to is delusional.

Literally just applied to a lib arts college in the hopes of studying lit and film or media at the same time. I see myself being a copywriter, tell me is it hopeless?

>>6575459

i want more!

>>6575730

>not stem
ur fucked kiddo

>>6575262

>Are you working towards a professorship/would you make that change?

The highest I will take my education is Masters level. This is because I will get a pay increase as a High School Teacher. I will get an extra 9K a year when I complete my Masters.

As for professorship, they only give you an extra 200 dollars pay increase a year. (I know its ridiculous) but they do not want Ph.D Teachers in High School, it is discouraged for some reason, and to be fair, you really should be at a college level if you have a Ph.D.

That said, I wouldn't mind looking into teaching at a local Junior College once a week at a night class, just to supplement my income. You only need a Master Degree to teach at a JC. I personal know some faculty who do this. Or you can teach at an adult school at night to help supplement your income too.

>how much do you currently make and how livable is it for now and the future?

Very livable. I live in California, and I work for a district that starts you off at 50,000. By the time you retire, you are at 100,000 a year (with a masters degree). Full benefits and retirement.

Remember, California has the best teachers Unions in the country, so that is why we are paid this way. It will be very different for other States. I think the second strongest Teachers Union after us, is Michigan, or Illinois, I am not sure.

Personally I am slowly getting my Masters at University in Comparative Religious Studies. I chose this because I love the field/discipline. It was recommended to me that you should choose your Masters based on your passion/greatest academic interest. Otherwise, you will suffer greatly with the amount of work you will have to do as a Masters student.

Many teachers receive their Masters in education, or Education administration. They choose this path because they want to become principles, or education board members. Some just get a Masters in the subject they already teach.

It's really up to you. But the great thing is, you will keep getting raises, have vacation, can pursue upward mobility in the districts if you so choose, or you can eventually transition into professorship if you so desire.

Warning. If you choose to work full time and teach. It will take you double the time to complete your Masters. You will be taking Masters classes part-time. Nevertheless, each masters class you pass, you can submit your transcripts to payroll at your district and they will give you a pay increase. Thus, each masters class you pass, you keep getting more money.

It really is a great gig in life, I'm surprised more people don't take it.... then again, most people are lazy mother fuckers. Education is a lifestyle. Not a means to end... the day you treat education as a means to end, the day you will become exhausted, frustrated, and miserable.

>tfw you chose the STEM life

>>6575730

Depends. Writing copy for a living as a freelancer isn't too difficult actually. The pay ranges from shit to okay depending on whether you are doing crappy little projects or you get on the bankroll of some big corporation.

Getting into proper advertising takes a lot of work. Firms are getting smaller and they are very competitive but setting yourself up in business is actually pretty simple.

If you think you're going to be Don Draper think again. If you think you're going to make rent by writing descriptions for mail order catalogs and writing glorified business memos then you're in luck.

I don't see the point myself. If you're half good just make a living writing articles and books. Writing copy is fuuucking boring.

>>6575730

Also, if you really do want to work in advertising/writer for a living. Start now!

Get yourself on a shitty freelancing site (there are hundreds) and start doing some work. You'll get them easy if you lowball everyone and have a half decent portfolio (and really it only needs to be half decent). Take some editing or writing job do one job every one or two weeks.

By the time you graduate you could have done nearly 200 jobs. Even if you just go on a shitty 'do anything for $5' site. Also make sure to get involved in the College paper, send articles off to websites and try to get into internships in the summer.

If you did that fairly small amount of work you'd be way ahead of the rest of the graduates.

>>6572386
so you've spent the past 5 years sitting at home nonstop reading manga and posting on a silesian research chemical board?

>>6575924

That's good advice. I did it for a while after I graduated college but I sooned realise how far behind I was in terms of building a portfolio that would get me worthwhile employment.

>>6572386
>i finished highschool at 16
>I worked for a bit in sales and then i quit working at 20 to go full hikki
>I've read over 5000 books in that time. I honestly dont know if i will ever stop being hikki.

My fucking sides

>>6571325
>Social Science and English majors
I'm puking right now

>>6576022

Try not to slip on your own self-righteous ego while you're at it.

>become archaeologist

Or:

>drink myself to death because I'm shit at anything that isn't history, philosophy or computers

>>6576727
Wellesley is an all women's college. If you're going into it a virgin (probable because it's a very selective school, so incoming freshman were probably too busy studying and being nerds to get laid and stuff), you're probably coming out of it a virgin. Unless you're a lesbian, in which case, you must be an art major.

>>6575924
where do i get the portfolio to do free lancing jobs so i can build a portfolio

>>6575944
He's living the dream anon, living the dream.

>>6576245
>or computers
At a computer science level you're shit at those too.

>>6576768
I've heard from employers that Computer Science majors are usually absolute shit at computers and they'd rather just get some autist who spent all his time hacking into porn sites for free subscription access since they'd be cheaper and more competent.

>>6576773
like IT employers?

>linguistics major
>work as a proofreader
>$22/hr
>could eventually climb to the top of the career ladder and become an editor

>tfw being an opinionated pedant brought in more money than being talent at literature would have

>>6577265

How'd you get the job anon?

>>6571325
>rediculously strong union

Kek

>>6572101
>go make my sandwich
can you even afford one?

>>6563815
Make manager at my local supermarket

>>6563815
>liberal arts degree

STEM master race here. Stay jelly.

I'm gonna suck cocks. I'm gonna suck so many cocks humanity is gonna be changed forever and the doors of perception will be opened for us to walk into a new realm that was just an utopia before hand.

>>6563815
Nothing. I'm going to law.

Houellebecq said that you don't meet any new people after university, so I'd love to do an English or history degree, but Anglo education (and Western education in general) is so utterly devalued by the mediocre social climbers flooding them because they think it's still 1950s that I have to actually learn a skill now.

If that wasn't the case, I'd haul my ass to Britain or U.S., get a degree out of reading great literature, bang qts - there has to exist a few attractive women even in England - and bullshit my way through business life while learning the trade as I go.

I've watched some English lectures from Yale and so far I fail to comprehend how they differed in any way from my literature classes in gymnasium. This is the learning institution that carries the greatest name in a country of over 300 million.

>>6579697
>he was actually stupid enough to believe the "STEM make money" meme
Enjoy making $60,000 a year while the actual smart people go into business and hire you to do their dirty work

>>6571557
teachers are paid like gods in wyoming, and it is a pretty nice state, to boot.

>>6571325
>why don't more people consider teaching?
Because if you're actually trying it's a ton of work, if you actually care it's emotionally draining, the pay is mediocre, there's no career advancement, etc. It's not a bad job, it's just not that great either.

>>6563843
Kek

>>6564002
Do you attend UCSD?

>>6579850
I think what matters is being smart. My uncle is/was an engineer but he did extra stuff for the company and is now rich doing oil rig diplomacy or something.

>MFW i didn't get his genes

>>6564397
The U.S. ARMY worked for me. God bless America. But then again I'm a soulless Computer Science grad.

>not being a double major or obtaining a degree in a hard science and a liberal art

It's like you don't even want to be human.

>>6581138

my college doesn't offer any "hard science"

not even sure what that means

why do people major in nonSTEM

>>6577338
Well he only works one hour a day, so I wouldn't worry.

>>6582422

fuck off

>>6581778
It usually means physics, chemistry, and/or biology.

>>6563815
>So what are YOU planning to do with your liberal arts degree?

My degree is in Psych but it's good enough for those in third world countries to hire me to play with their kids for a few hours a week while I travel around. I will jump around for a while, probably end up in the Middle East where I could make more teaching English there than doing anything with my degree here (U.S.) all while writing, reading, and playing music. Eventually, if all else fails, I will turn to sorcery to propel my novels into immortality.

>>6582452

That's hard for me though
I have a major in English and my college requires a big senior thesis, I'd have to do two radically different senior thesis if I wanted to double major.
It's sad though, I'm pretty good at Chem and Maths it's just that I wanted to pursue and enjoy English more
most of my colleagues are completely lost in science and math classes

Relevant question:

What is considered a good GPA for going to grad school? What are the most important aspects in a grad school application?

>>6565810
bomb a cop shop