/lit/ - Literature

> Jessica breaking down in a giggle as he reaches for the spot along her sweatered flank he knows she can't bear to be tickled in. She hunches, squirming, out of the way as he rolls past, bouncing off the back of the sofa but making a nice recovery, and by now she's ticklish all over, he can grab an ankle, elbow -
> But a rocket has suddenly struck. A terrific blast quite close beyond the village: the entire fabric of the air, the time, is changed - the casement window blown inward, rebounding with a wood squeak to slam again as all the house still shudders.
> Their hearts pound. Eardrums brushed taut by the overpressure ring in pain. The invisible train rushes away close over the rooftop.
> They sit still as the painted dogs now, silent, oddly unable to touch. Death has come in the pantry door: stands watching them, iron and patient, with a look that says try to tickle me.

Way to give me goosebumps, Pynchon..

Was the only reason it didn't win the Pulitzer prize due to the part when Slothrop goes down the toilet, covered in shit after escaping a rape?

>>6484730
Major Marvy sucks NIGGERS ;D

>>6484699
mirin' prose

>>6484699
> try to tickle me

Jesus christ, that's pretty disturbing.

>>6484699
I love how Pynchon uses colons. He used them similarly in V.

>>6484699
i thought the prose would be different, like ulysses kind of.

>>6484824
I love his use of abstract metaphors. "The invisible train" for example, but early in the book there's a referencing to "a new season" when Pirate enters the greenhouse on his flat's roof. Because it's warmer than the cold morning air, it's a new season.

>>6484730
I think it was, but keep in mind it was the 70s. That would've been pretty shocking to read, especially when Slothrop is analysing the shit clusters in the pipe and how he can tell who shat what due to the dietary conditions of the shit. It's a lot of detail that's pretty grotesque. I certainly winced my way through those passages.

>>6484639
What actually makes Gravity's Rainbow difficult to read?

Is there anything I should know before trying to read it, like should I have a basic understanding of scientific knowledge or whatever? Or should I just dive right in and take my time reading it?

>>6484870
are you going to learn qm and thermodynamics? stop kidding yourself

>>6484877
thermodynamics are pretty straight forward, though.

>>6484870
- Dense, dense descriptions that sometimes veer into abstract metaphors. Pynchon has a real knack for not spelling things out - he'll provide specific descriptions but he may not necessarily hint at what the descriptions are for. Trust me, this actually is more challenging to follow than it sounds.
- Sudden transitions into flashbacks or character motivations that take the reader out of the previous scene and into another anecdote.
- Challenging subject matter. Pynchon is very interested in rockets, you'll come to learn, but also military rankings, beaurocratic associations and some scenes go into a lot of detail concerning death, paedophilia, sex and coprophilia.
- Multiple "main" characters and multiple supporting characters, such a wide cast can make it difficult to remember who you're following exactly.
- Did I mention the abstract metaphors? They can take a few times to read before you really appreciate what they're saying.

Take your time with the book. It's daunting due to its length and I think you'll find quickly that it's not the easiest thing to read, and the book varies in its difficulty depending on the part you reach of it (it's split into four). Stick with it, it's very rewarding, it's highly intelligent and somewhat amusing and disturbing.

>>6484877
Does Pynchon even know that shit though?

>>6484884
for your average /lit/-stupid humanities student, though?

When you read it, it's clear that Pynchon was in the navy.

I understand why he's reclusive, but it'd be great if he had written some memoirs he plans to release when he dies or something, written in a similar form to his novels.

>>6484896
no he just made it up as he went along why do u think they call it fictioN

>>6484896
Yes

>>6484901
Probably not

I loved this book as much as he loves cameras.

>>6484902
>single up all the lines

It'd probably be boring, though.

>>6484877
Rocket go fast, boom ppl die??

>>6484917
> detail his experience in the military
> his disdain for the media and attention
> how he fucked his ex-college mate's wife
> rare appearance on The Simpsons and in Inherent Vice
> people he met, loved and worked with over his lifetime

I dunno, the way he writes, I think he could turn it into a highly memorable autobiography. I'm just dreaming though, we know he'll never do it. Even in death he wouldn't want people to know him.

>>6484699
I guess I should actually read this book, that was pretty damn good.

>>6484639
BUY ME GRAVITYS RAINBOW 1ST EDITION

>>6484953
> "mornin', son, happy birthday, it's from your mother and I"
> "WOW, IS THIS THE FIRST EDITIO--"
> "ah, ah, ah, why don't you open and find out?"
> "You're the best, da-- oh.."
> pic related

>>6484730
There's scat sex bdsm in it too.

>>6484991
Dammit, Pynchon...

>>6484730
There was a scene with Pointsman about his lust for kids which is pretty uncomfortable to read. That could also be a factor.

>>6484944
The only books that are "memes" that are complete shit are /lit/ actual books and like Tao Lin. This degeneration of discourse to the level of posting the word memeeverything and the notion that anything more than two people like is le memeandthereforebadjustbecause is so fucking retarded.

What board is responsible for this bullshit anyway? Did it come from /mu/?

>>6485016
Who the fuck mentioned memes? Why do you have to bring that shit in here, anon?

>>6485022
I'm sorry I guess I just assumed from that guy saying he had finally found a reason to read this book. There is a thread about Gravity's Rainbow literally every single day and has been for well over a year. Which board spawned memeeverything, pls respond.

>>6484972

I HATE YOU

YOU'RE NOT MY DAD

>>6485032
I only mentioned I had a reason to read the book because I had heard a lot of praise for it but not much about why it deserved the praise. I was pretty surprised with the extract posted.

You're probably right about /mu/'s obsession for memes everywhere though. It's why I mainly left that board.

>>6484972
Worst birthday ever.

>>6485277


whats wrong with the vintage pinecone version?

>>6484639

It's full of tedious action describing and character blocking. I encountered all of the math and science he drops in first year engineering, and none of it is necessary or significant. He forgets to give any of his characters a personality or distinctive features. The story develops very slowly- there's no good reason this book should be seven hundred pages. The humor is not clever.

>>6485280
Looks like an LGBT colouring book.

>>6485296
Others feel differently, though, anon. It's often considered one of the greatest American novels and is compared to Ulysses frequently.

>>6485326
I have this one and like the cover more, but the one you're talking about is actually pretty relevant to the book's content, thematically speaking.

Especially with the black rocket being in the center.

>>6485344
>>6485280

Also vintage pine cone is a better version of the writing, the best you can get that isn't 1e

WHICH IS WHAT MATTERS

>>6485379
I didn't realize it had any Ulysses-like edition differences because all anyone ever says about that is to avoid one or two versions (penguin deluxe, and the where's waldo ones) while saying literally nothing about any of the others in terms of content.

>>6485379
Well, in this case you count on that people are reading it. For at least 50% of this board this does not apply.
So what remains is: impress public with GR with a nice cover.

>>6484639
"The hand of Providence creeps among the stars, giving Slothrop the finger."

>>6484972
But that's the best modern edition.

>>6485451
I know you're probably right in saying that, but I don't want it to be true. I guess /lit/ isn't too different from other boards: people will shit on things they haven't read just because.

>>6485451
Most people probably couldn't finish Gravity's Rainbow.

Pynchon certainly didn't.

I thought Pynchon didn't like having his photo taken...

>>6485509
Most people everywhere are dumb. Oftentimes, the ones who think they aren't are the dumbest ones of all.

>>6485521
It's a digital thingy

>>6485521
It's a mock-up of a photo from the navy I think

>>6485521

The only actual confirmed photo of his in the past decade is the one where he's walking with his (grand?)son and wearing a big hooded parka. He's staring right at the camera, and the story goes he hunted down the photographer and basically told him to fuck off.

>>6485671
Also this from Inherent Vice. Pynchon is the hand.

>>6484639
I despised it. The prose is kind of hard, yeah. But mainly i just don't find it funny. It tries really hard to be funny, but for me it just falls on it's face. Everything is about farting or erections. Either that, or just *holds up spork* type humor. Like wow, the guy has a bananary! Isn't that a funny word, Bananary!!!! Loolllll!!!!!!!!

This ain't your grandad's novel, kid. This is fucking Pynch! There's drugs, paedophilia, men in pig suits, and crazy mid-air pie fights.

>>6485782
D-Girl is an underrated episode.

>>6485782
While I find pincone's three stooges meets /hc/ antics amusing, I can see why they wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.

>>6484926
>> rare appearance on The Simpsons and in Inherent Vice

He was in Inherent Vice? I know he did the voiceover for a commercial for the book if that's what you mean, but the movie?

>>6485763
> I read 20 pages

>>6484972
Does that edition really suck? I just got it as well...

>>6485915
They were just complaining because they didn't like the cover and/or because they wanted the first edition which is presumably more rare and valuable.

>>6485921
Ok, thanks : - )

>>6485763
Lazy bait.

>>6485910
See:
>>6485755

>>6484972
At least it's not the one with the shit frank miller cover

>>6485763
The only thing this post convinces me of is that you're an idiot.

>>6485755
lies

>>6485521
i can see y

>>6485671

>>6486461
What I don't get about that one is how all the people in the background are excited, including kids, when I'm pretty sure most of them haven't even heard of Pinecone.

>>6486495

There's like 2 smiling kids, they're probably laughing at a joke their friend just cracked.

Nobody in that aside from the photographer probably even knew the man was famous.

>>6486505
There's a bigger version that shows the whole street. Literally everyone seems to be looking in the direction of the camera excitedly.

>>6484730
and the scat fetish scene, bestiality with monkeys and pigs, incestuous pedophilia ...

>>6484730
that and the pedophilia/incest/spanking fetish shit

>>6484896
read his wikipedia page, Pynchon is a literal genius, he knows lots of shit.

>>6486558
>incestuous pedophilia ...
You mean hypothetical pseudo-incestious pedophilia that never actually happened

There was actual pedophilia too but it wasn't incestuous.

>>6486461
How would the photographer know it was Pynchon if nobody has seen Pynchon b4

>>6484699

>>6484870
basic understandings of early pomo philosophy and marxism will help too.

>>6486757
That and reading V. first because of references to things/people like Sudwest Africa in 1904, the hereros becoming Schwarzkommando, von Trotha, Kurt Mondaugen, Pig Bodine, etc.

Really, I have no idea why people don't acknowledge that the two books are more than superficially connected. You could even argue that the V2s were one of the incarnations of V./Vheissu.

>>6486793
>I have no idea why people don't acknowledge that the two books are more than superficially connected.
But they do

>>6486925
I guess I should look at what people have to say about them on places other than /lit/.

>>6486321
This, that version is also full of typos and shit.

>>6485379
Well the Bantam version is fine too the pagination is just slightly off.

>>6487333
>>6487331
>>6485379
Is there an actual breakdown of how each edition is contentwise like with Ulysses?

>>6487343
There's a /lit/ guide to gravity's rainbow that discusses most of the editions I believe. I went with bantam because it's cheap and 1:1 the original text. The slightly off pagination is a minor frustration. Apparently the blueprint version is also fine, and Vintage is the best you can get outside of a 1st edition.

>>6487351
Fair enough.

Though it would be nice to see some examples of things from the original text that were screwed up or altered somehow in any of the others just to get some sort of frame of reference for how problematic they are.

>>6487383
From the notorious amazon review that brings the typo to light:

Reading Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow is hard enough without deletions, typos, and occasional rewording of the authors original work. But that's what you get with this so-called "Deluxe Edition" put out by Penguin in 2006.

Starting GR I realized I wasn't getting the full story (even though this is Pynchon), so I borrowed a 1973 edition and started comparing it to my Penguin "Deluxe Edition". Within the first 100 pages I found at least a dozen typos, rewordings, and just plain deletions.

An example, pp. 139-140, last sentence:

...Your task, in the dreams, is often to [cross under the trees through the shadows before something hap] pens.

The portion in the brackets is totally absent in this copy. Deletions like this make for a completely incomprehensible novel and ruin the author's work.

Note that my rating doesn't reflect my opinion of GR, just the "Deluxe Edition" Penguin has put forth (2006 ed.). Frankly, Penguin's QA/proofing department should be ashamed for putting out such a turd.

For the love of the Mistress of the Night, please, avoid this edition!!!

>>6487390
That does clarify some things, but I was talking more about the other editions.

Penguin deluxe is generally accepted as the worst, but what about the rest that are supposedly acceptable, yet still not a 1:1 copy of the first edition text?

Those are the differences i'm actually interested in.

So why the heck does /lit/ like M&D so much? Just finished it and I think it's one of Pynchon's worst. Meandering, weak characterization and unsubtle themes.

Is it just because "muh olde English"?

Is it verboten to get through Gravity's Rainbow with a companion? I had no shame when I used one as a crutch through Finnegan's Wake, but I'm a bit less apprehensive to use it on a book not written in garbled Joycien.

>>6487599
Harold Bloom

>>6487599
>Weak characterization

So have you not read anything else by Pynchon? Are you just lying? Mason & Dixon had his most fleshed out characters of anything he has written.

>>6487624

Sure, I wouldn't say that is Pynchon's strong point, but it felt like Mason and Dixon didn't go anywhere during the middle 500 pages.

And unlike in other Pynchon novels there weren't enough interesting side-characters or crazy antics - not saying there were none - to make up for that fact.

>>6487633

BTW, I mean the characters of Mason and Dixon didn't go anywhere, not the novel itself.

>>6487616
That's more of a personal choice. You shouldn't feel like it's automatically some sort of disgrace, and Gravity's Rainbow warrants it a lot of times due to using foreign languages, equations, references to obscure or esoteric bits of information, and technical terms. But I'd still say try reading it without one first, and only go with a guide if you feel completely lost. Whether or not it's a social faux pas is secondary to the clunkiness of flipping through a reference book as you read through something.

>>6487624
>>6487633
What's wrong with his characterization? He does a decent enough job of building up all the characters he focuses on.

There just tend to be so many of them per book that you might be forgetting the finer points of how they're all characterized.

>>6487662

Possibly. But, for instance, I found it jarring how Mason spends the entire book depressed about his wife and not comfortable with other woman. Then come the end it's all "Oh yeah, BTW I re-married."

>>6484639
I read it through high school and I'd say it was time well spent

>>6484730
I heard it was for this part

>>6487616
Just use the wiki

Don't you just love it when you realise why something receives all the praise it does and you're convinced it deserves it? For me, that's how I felt with Gravity's Rainbow. I was pleased that such a book received such success.

>>6487351
> Vintage is the best you can get outside of a 1st edition

Noice, that's the copy I have.

>>6487390
Why the hell do publishers make deletions to the original novel? That seriously makes no sense.

>>6487740

>>6487390
I just downloaded the "Penguin Deluxe Edition" ebook and it has the sentence

>Your task, in these dreams, is often to cross—under the trees, through the shadows—before something happens.

is in there, complete

>>6487740
Pynchon, you playa

>>6486321
>>6487331
Fuck, boys, I think this is the one I have

>>6488704
There may be a difference between the print and ebook versions, or they may have recalled the crappy ones and rereleased them without the errors since.

>>6488843
This one? Oh dear..

>>6486403
Never.

>>6488704
Yeah, the ebook seems alright

>>6488861
Yeah :( I didn't realize there were shitty editions and it was the first one that came up when I googled it. I guess I'll have to pick up a different version.

>>6488704
I'm >>6488935
Just checked my printed version and it reads:
>Your task, in these dreams, is often to pens

Goddamn it. I'm pissed I got this version. At least I got it with a gift card instead of real money

>>6488958
Your task, in these dreams, is often to get penised by Penguin's Deluxe edition.

>>6488958
>>6488958
>oh no there's a single printing error in a single sentence in a book with over 600 pages
faggot

>>6488975
>>6487390
>Within the first 100 pages I found at least a dozen typos, rewordings, and just plain deletions.

To those who haven't seen it.

>>6488981
>>6487390
>Within the first 100 pages I found at least a dozen typos, rewordings, and just plain deletions.
How come the only example you mention is the one which keeps bring brought up on /lit/?

>>6488972
So are Penguin's Deluxe Editions usually shitty?

Why do publishers feel the need to delete sentences out of novels?

>>6486659
This dude was just taking photos around New York, Pinch-Boy got caught in one of the photos. No one would've said anything if he didn't track this guy down and tell him to eat a dick.

>>6489035
Other than ugly covers, are the Where Waldo ones really that bad? If I buy them from Amazon brand new surely the text wouldn't have smudged?

>>6488682
I do think it's a testament to Pynchon's prose that he can make you feel this level of visceral disgust with words alone. He could've just said "she shat in his mouth" and I'd just think "oh okay, that's nasty but it's not going to ruin my day or anything." He doesn't go for that.

>>6489206
That's certainly true, you're right.

>>6489035
I dove right into Gravity's Rainbow. Did I do it wrong?

>>6490096
You can read whatever you want.

>>6490115
t-t-thank you, anon

Why does Gravity's Rainbow break into song every 10 pages or so?

>>6489145
I don't know, it was just an edit of the line to fall in line with your situation. Also I don't think it was a conscious editorial decision to delete things in this case, so much as the person responsible for editing it fucking up/being negligent.

>>6489199
Supposedly the text itself in those versions is sometimes washed out to the point of being unreadable so you have to check them before you buy them if you must buy them for whatever reason.

>>6490096
Kinda. It's basically an interquel to V. , which you won't really appreciate unless you read V. first.

>>6490750
It doesn't

>>6490811
It kinda does in part 2. Parts 1, 3 and 4 spread the songs out more.

>>6490750
Because I like it to

>>6490811
Yes it does.

>>6490786
Well I might as well finish Gravity's Rainbow now and then read V, then I have a reason to re-read Gravity's Rainbow.

>>6484972
>from you're mother and I

lol your dad is a pled

>>6491198
> you're
> pled

>>6484639
Gravity's Rainbow is probably the longest and most intricate dick joke in all of literature, and I loved every second of it.

Picked this back up to read random bits at the end of an acid trip earlier and found some perfect descriptions basically where I'd just been hanging out with people, and the portion where he grows a nose errection and absorbs the girl he's with into his nostril hair. and meanwhile the writing is magnificent the entire time, just top notch prose about people smoking hash on acid and hallucinating and depraved sexual shit and it's pullitzer prize calibur material.

Picking this up at random is something I will have to start doing more often. I really should re-read it as well.

For anyone who likes occult conspiracy shit I outlined a bunch of 2spoopy stuff involving the dutch shell corporation which is referrenced directly in the conspiracy of the novel highlighted with images of a weird stained glass freemasonic mural that were uncovered in a dutch oil facility recently before and how Pinecone was in the navy and shit here

>>/lit/thread/5206899

>>6490786
My copy of Waldo V.

It gets worse than this and will hinder reading speed.

>>6492559
While it might be tolerable in this photograph, it gets agitating when reading in person for 500 pages.

>>6484890
can you start with GR ?

>>6492624
there's no reason you can't but he is a weird writer. If you go into GR raw you will probably find it an incomprehensible mess. I mean it still is, but being acquainted with his style is probably a good idea

>>6492624
I will strongly recommend reading V. first.

Don't be discouraged. It's also a great book.

>>6492644
>>6492650
Ok i'll start with V.
Then do I need to read CoL49 ?

>>6492662
If you want to. It's good. And only 150pages.

>>6492662
If you like V., then I assume that you will want to explore his other work. Don't make it a chore.

>>6492559
What's wrong with it?

>>6493301
smeary print

tis' worse in person

>>6493319
Is it printed with cheap ink so it smudges when you touch it?

>>6493329
Slightly, but mostly it's just the print itself. It is blurry and can get headache inducing.

>>6492559
Even in the photo I can see how that could be a problem, especially if it gets worse than that.

Though the covers of those are ugly as fuck so I'd take them as a warning not to buy them in general since you'll often see other editions with better covers right next to them in any bigger bookstores.

It's one of the few cases where judging a book (or more specifically, the waldo edition of any pinecone book) by its cover pays off.

>>6492668
>>6493122
Ok I've red the first 80 pages(V). I kinda like it even if I don't understand everything (wtf it's happening in Africa now ? In the past ? )

>>6493843
The chapters that take place in the past are Herbert Stencil (the younger Stencil) reconstructing past events related to V. through diaries, other sorts of records, and firsthand accounts.

It's explained on the first page of "In which Stencil, a quick-change artist, does eight impersonations". He's not literally impersonating them or being there, he's trying to reconstruct the events from their perspectives.

>>6487740

>>6494266
> reading Gravity's Rainbow in high school english class, every student reading a page each in front of the class after being called up by the teacher
> reach the BDSM shit-eating scene
> teacher says it's my turn to read
> "uh-uh, okay, erm… do I read --"
> "read it all, anon. Go on.."
> stand up at front of class
> begin reading page
> "A-a-a d-dark turd a-appears"
> "negroe's p-peeen-nis"
> "m-mashes shit against the roof of h-his mouth"
> get a boner in front of the class
> really need to pee, take off my jeans
> forgot I was wearing MLP panties
> take them off
> can't pee downward with a boner so I piss freely in front of the class
> the hot girl I like gets caught in the wildfire and screams
> I wonder if she'll go to summer prom with me
> start crying in front of the class, I can't hold back my tears, I feel so embarrassed and I really needed to pee
> people at the back of the class start jumping up from their chairs, throwing books at me and insulting me, calling me "negro penis boy" and telling me to pass the talcum to malcolm
> sobbing so hard I burst a blood vessel in my eye and start crying for my mommy
> accidentally bite my tongue hard
> "Well read, anon, please take your seat. Suzie, you're next. Top that."

>>6493875
Will it become clearer ?

>>6494536
What kind of high school would make you read Gravity's Rainbow?

>>6494561
A good one.

>>6494544
It starts coming together more and more as you progress through it. There's still a lot of ambiguity by design, but the overall idea should be fairly clear by the end and you should understand what's going on by the middle.

>>6494568
Don't get me wrong, I like it and it has a lot to say but most teenagers would probably be fixated on all the wrong parts for all the wrong reasons rather than actually understanding or appreciating it.

>>6484890
This makes me want to read the book, after Infinite Jest I'll.

>>6489035
Where's Waldo is a prect fit for GR. the book might as well be called "Where's Slothrop."

>>6494536
Alright I actually kinda giggled to this. Pinecone would be pleased.

>>6486527
pynchon looks like he's approaching the photographer and telling him to fuck off, might be because of that

>>6489192
didn't the guy find him by tracking down where his kid went to school and waited there until pynch picked him up?

>>6495197

Yeah, I think it was for New York Magazine in the mid-'90s. It was a piece basically saying he was hiding in plain sight. I think the only pic in the article, though, was P. holding hands with his son going the other way. I think this pic was taken first and they turned around to avoid the photographer.

>>6490750
I'd like to know this to, what's with all the songs and jingles in this book?

I just picked up Crying of Lot 49 today after work because of this thread. My first Pynchon.

>>6495700
That's just Pinecone's style. Probably inspired by his time in the Navy since there are "cadences" they make you sing as you march or run in every branch of the US military as far as I know.

Though Pinecone's songs are always relevant to what's going on.

>>6486461
no one notices Norman Mailer leering in the corner or is everyone just fucking with me?

>>6496155
I noticed that dude but I had no idea he was anyone famous or noteworthy.

>>6484699
>Dear Mom, I put a couple of people in Hell today....

>Distant, yes these are pretty distant. Sure they are. Too much closer and it begins to hurt to bring her back. But there is this Eurydice-obsession, this bringing back out of...though how much easier just ot leave her there, in fetid carbide and dead-canary soups of breath and come out and have comfort enough to try only for a reasonable fascimile-
>"Why bring her back? Why try? It's only the difference between the real boxtop and the one you draw for Them."
>No. How can he believe that? It's what They want him to believe, but how can he? No difference between a boxtop and its image, all right ,their whole economy's based on that...but she must be more than an image, a produce, a promise to pay...


>So this pickup group, these exiles and horny kids, sullen civilians called up in their middle age, men fattening despite their hunger, flatulent because of it, pre-ulcerous, hoarse, runny-nosed, red-eyed, soar-throated, piss-swollen men suffering from acute lower backs and all-day hangovers, wishing death on officers they truly hate, men you have seen on foot and smileless in the cities but forgot, men who don't remember you either, knowing they ought to be grabbing a little sleep, not out here performing for strangers, give you this evensong, climaxing now with its rising fragment of some ancient scale, voices overlapping three and fourfold, up, echoing, filling the entire hollow of the church - no warming or lighting this terrible night, only, damn us, our scruffy obligatory little cry, our maximum reach outward - praise be to God! - for you to take back you your war-address, your war-identity, across the snow's footprints and tire tracks finally to the path you must create by yourself alone in the dark. Whether you want it or not, whatever seas you have crossed, the way home....

>>6488704
>ebook

>>6494780
Nope

Incorrect.

>>6496252
It depends on who's perspective you're looking at it from. That works from Pointsman's/The White Visitation's after they lose track of him in the zone. It kinda works from Slothrop's as where's 00000/The Schwarzgerät but it's still a boring cover idea for that company to use for every Pinecone book, and there are way better covers for all of them by different publishers.

That's not even getting into the aforementioned defects of the waldo editions.

>>6496276
Nope.

You can have an opinion as long as you know you're wrong.

The cover is shit tier. Fact

>>6496295
I didn't say it was a good cover like that guy did, just that you could technically extrapolate some basis for it in the story.

I completely agree that it's a shit cover even if there's a way to rationalize it as being relevant to the plot in some way.

>>6496303
Still wrong.

>>6496319
No u.

>>6484913
kek

The book is incredible. I could extract meaning from it all day long. There is also knowledge in it as well, perhaps well kept?

>>6484896
He studied engineering.

>the sequence where Slothrop is chased by Marvey and drunks singing songs about dudes who fucked rockets

It got to the point where Slothrop was throwing pies out of a hot air balloon and I had to put the book down I was laughing so hard. It's just so utterly absurd

>>6492559
That's really shitty, my waldo copy of gravity's rainbow has great printed text. I guess its pretty inconsistent. I'm not a huge fan of the cover either, but it is quite entertaining to try and make out the little references on the cover to events in the book

>>6497568
I loathe how my brain tries to make it focus but I just end up getting a headache.

>>6497563
>Ja, ja, ja, ja!
>In Prussia they never eat pussy!
>There ain't hardly cats enough,
>There's garbage and that's enough,
>So waltz me around again, Russky!

>>6495778
Nice choice, it's a short one so you'll get through it quickly and onto the next Pynchon novel.

I think this has been a thoroughly enjoyable Pinecone thread.

Why is it that, for as often as /lit/ brings up Pynchon, the quality of his prose is hardly mentioned?

I read IV first and thought it was great, thought to myself "How could this be lite anything? This book is great"
And then I read V.
Holy shit, passages in that book are breathstopping beautiful.

>>6499033
Prose has been mentioned in this thread though.

But yeah, you're right, his passages can be breathtaking. While reading Gravity's Rainbow, I find myself reading his abstract metaphors a few times just because I enjoy them so much, man.

>>6499089
>abstract metaphor
I'm actually reading V., are there any of those in it ?

>>6499098
Yeah. Much stuff in V.

His prose is absolutely incredible and reaches it's apex with Mason & Dixon.

>>6499089
>Prose has been mentioned in this thread though.

This is the first Pinecone thread I've seen that talked about his prose

But yeah, I already know I'm a lifelong fan, V. isn't always enjoyable to read, some parts slog on, but it is sublime. Looking forward to reading GR, M&D, and Against the Day

>>6499149
Exactly how I felt when I first read Gravity's Rainbow. It can be challenging and sometimes tests my patience, but the overall experience is so rewarding. Pynchon really has a talent for exploring language.

>>6499033
his prose is brought up all the time and imo is semi overrated. he can be amazing or he can just write pynchon sentences (long, quirky references, not much else). mondaugen's story and esther's nose job are some of the best passages of 20th century prose. but a lot of the sentences in V are just ok. he's a very inconsistent prose writer, partially because he switches styles a lot.

still a good stylist, just not imo on the level of some other writers. his major strengths lie elsewhere

>>6499098
>>6499109

this is very interesting. what are some examples of these abstract metaphors supposedly found in V, GR or any other of his books that a plen reader such as myself may not have picked up on the first go?

>>6499375
GR

The man in the bolted diver's suit was trying to experience a heartbeat by getting hit by lightening.

>>6499208
Different tastes, then, I actually had Mondaugen's chapter in mind when I said it slogged on, still had some beautiful passages near the end though.

But shit like this
>“Her rhythms pulse regular and sinusoidal—a freak show in caravan, travelling over thousands of little hills. A serpent hypnotic and undulant, bearing on her back like infinitesimal fleas such hunchbacks, dwarves, prodigies, centaurs, poltergeists! Two-headed, three-eyed, hopelessly in love; satyrs with the skin of werewolves, werewolves with the eyes of young girls and perhaps even an old man with a navel of glass, through which can be seen goldfish nuzzling the coral country of his guts.”

God damn

>>6489035
>>6492559

>tfw everyman pynchon will never be a thing

It never came out because the copywrite license ran out of time and Viking Penguin didn't want Everyman to renew it or something.

>>6499743
tfw some asshole asked Folio Society about a hardcover of Gravity's Rainbow

we don't need that gaudy shit

>>6499659
u wot pynchon

>>6499659
I don't know what that means.

>>6499659
Oh hello, I marked that very same passage too, starting there and ending there. You've got me a bit confused with this since I don't remember posting.

Now let's hope a "(You)" doesn't appear...

can some non-english-speakers give me some opinions about this book? can this book still be enjoyed if reading a translation? I'm german by the way.
I regularly read a lot of english books in their original language and usually never had any problems with the vocabulary, but shied away from literature which is recognized as major works in the english literature.
I wanted to know if I'm missing out in reading works like these (not just Gravitiy's Rainbow, also other works which many people would recommend as english masterpieces) in a translated version. I also don't want to ruin the experience by reading it in it's original language and feeling like I'm "missing out" on all the good writing because it's not my native language.

>>6488704
>>6488922
I've got the Penguin ebook edition and it has the uncorrected text (the pens line). I imagine that the ebook for sale on amazon has been updated since when it was uploaded to Bibliotik, do either of you know a link to the one you've got? Been looking for ages since the penguin's formatted much nicer than any of the other epubs i've found

>>6499916
Sure. Spanish speaker here, but I've worked in an English-speaking environment for years and read and write English on a daily basis. 2/3 through with it.

I bought this bad boy, in English, in 2011, and tried several times to read it in normal situations -- travelling, vacations, each night at bed. I've read other books in English this way, for example 1984, and hadn't had issues. For this one, it was downright impossible, I must have read the first 100 pages six times, and never got too much.

I finally could tackle it this year, as said I'm well into it, and it's been a hard task. One hour or more reading sessions, fully concentrated, taking notes, and after finishing each chapter I need to go back and re-read through it with my notes. I'm finally "getting" what happens and it *is* enjoyable, but at a price.

Side note, the story happens mostly in Germany and obviously German prose is interleaved. I wonder if a German translation would interfere with that, because words like Schwarzgerät or the Springer are used with an obvious prose intent, but for you it'll just be the black machine.or the Knight. Or maybe it's resolved.

My advice is, in any case, don't. Read a translation first, and if after reading it you're into it, /then/ read the English version. Seriously, there are passages, for example the pies in the balloon, that are obviously meant to be enjoyable and light to read, and for me it meant going back and forth a couple of times ("is this really what's going on??") before realising it.

If you're still decided and going for the English version at first try, then I'd suggest take the advise /lit/ gives, and start with the Crying of Lot 49, to get an idea of his prose, before digging into GR.

>>6499851
Does it matter? Shit's pretty.

I hope this thread is still around when I get back from uni tomorrow.

>>6499851
I think it's an abstract way of describing the way a girl dances and the attention she's getting?

>The Meggezone is like being belted in the head with a Swiss Alp. Menthol icicles immediately begin to grow from the roof of Slothrop's mouth. Polar bears seek toenail-holds up the freezing frosty-grape alveolar clusters in his lungs. It hurts his teeth too much to breathe, even through his nose, even, necktie loosened, with his nose down inside the neck of his olive-drab T-shirt. Benzoin vapors seep into his brain. His head floats in a halo of ice.

>>6501259
"It's really fucking cold."

>>6501374
Yeah that's much better

>>6501259
Take a fucking bath Slothrop....

>>6489206
>implying this is as disgusting as the job nob scene from V

>>6489206
>implying this is as disgusting as the job nose scene from V

>>6499208

Would agree with this and it's so frustrating. When he wants to Pynchon can write wonderfully, be it the humour of the casino section in GR, the fun hijinks of the colonial espionage portions of V, the beauty of "When Britannica sleeps" in M&D, or the touching reminiscence of Vineland...

But it's like most the time he just wants to fuck with you and not bother.

Must make me a masochist to keep reading him.

>>6502892
The highs are definitely worth the lows though.

>>6502892
Bear in mind he wrote certain passages on drugs and doesn't actually even remember what they were supposed to mean. That said, I find that his more weird moments often serve to obscure the transitions between character focus, because usually they're resolved with a completely different setting and moment altogether. It almost feels like he's narrating the very shift in perspective which is occurring in the narration itself, which is pretty damn meta

>>6503610
> he's narrating the very shift in perspective

I got this impression too while reading GR. I can't remember the specific passage but while reading it, there's a part where he introduces a character and how he worked with another person (probably in the War) and it's like, as a narrator, he just can't quite remember the name of this person.

>>6503610
Oh man, don't remind me. Parts of GR are inscrutable sure, but above all that one segment with the dialogue between, I think, skin pigments, somewhere in book 1 still gives me nightmares

Was Pynchon racist?

He seems keen on referring to brown things as "negroe-coloured"

>>6503794
He's writing about people in the 40s, when such casual racism was not only common but pretty much accepted. Its done ironically, though he does make liberal use of certain stereotypes that imo could be considered racist today

>>6503913
Fair enough, I was thinking that it made sense in the context of the novel but there were certainly times where I felt like it seemed like he enjoyed it a bit too much ("Pass the talcum Malcolm!").

>>6503794
>>6503919
Keep in mind it was also written in the 70s when this sorta language was less frowned-upon, and Pynchon is known for writing to an excess. He does hyperbole so uncomfortably well.

>>6503919
Actually, that quote you pose is case in point an example of the ironic racism he employs.

Remember that that entire episode is relayed by Slothrop as he is under Sodium Amytol (truth serum). The White Visitation is specifically examining Slothrop's racism as commentary on the racist tendencies of that era and is supposed to come off as "offensive" or "ignorant" and is clarified as such in passing in a later chapter

>>6503949
Ah, that helps me understand that scene so much better actually, I didn't quite realise that was the full intention of The White Visitation.

When I finish reading this book I'll certainly have to revisit it.

Is Pinecone one of the greatest authors of the 20th century?

>>6484639
>4 The Conterforce
>What?
>-Richard M. Nixon

>>6504857
One of them, I'd say so, yeah. I doubt I could call him the actual best of the century, but he's probably in my top ten.

Currently 250 pages into it meself. Really like it. I fucking adore this passage

>"You go from dream to dream inside me. You have passage to my last shabby corner, and there, among the debris, you've found life. I'm no longer sure which of all the words, images, dreams or ghosts are 'yours' and which are 'mine.' It's past sorting out. We're both being someone new now, someone incredible…."

This thread still around? It's been about five days..

>>6507574
That's /lit/ for you. Also it's an actual discussion of Ruggles that isn't filled with dank memes.

>>6507574
>This thread still around?
Are you posting in it?
>It's been about five days..
At least as many months since there last was a good thread about this book

>>6507574
Because the discussions in the thread have been enjoyable and productive. Even on slower boards like /lit/, it's rare to have a thread this enjoyable.

I always thought the orange swirl was a stylised sun, but after seeing the cover in person I realise it's a missile spiral!
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hrWjkn_DHs
Am I slowpoke or is this a general revelation?

>>6507779
I also thought it was a swirling sun.

>>6507779
I thought it was the sun too, anon, but in fairness I've never seen the cover in person nor have I really seem a missile spiral before your post.

>>6507779
I'd never noticed it either before enlarging the picture for some reason. It's far from obvious.

>>6507779
Well with the whole V2 theme it is kind of an obvious connection. Though really it's a missile spiral AS a stylized sun so you weren't entirely wrong the first time.

I know page numbering and such is typically dictated by publishers but, do you think Pinecone intentionally had the third act end at page 616 for a number of the beast connection?

>>6508239
Extremely unlikely, and must vary with editions.

>>6485872

As underrated as this post is.

>>6486932

Yeah, it is mentioned in at least one place I can think of off the top of my head.

I believe it's in Mackey's 'The Rainbow Quest of Thomas Pynchon' that Gravity's Rainbow really could have been called "V. 2"

>>6486659
How Can Our Pynchons Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real

>>6509063
>Our Pynchons
>tfw in a millenium people will argue that it couldn't have been the one person writing all of his works

>>6509076

I've literally already heard that from contemporaries. That he has a medium size 5-10 person research department that helps him with specific historic/scientific/technological details. Don't know if it's true, but some guy was telling me like he knew it for a fact.

>>6509076
Man, I bet that'll happen. People will wonder why there's so few photos of him. It's of course bullshit, right? I mean, he appeared on the Simpsons, right?? R-r-right?

>>6509120
>>6509076
my dad works at nintendo and he say thomas pynchon said if he can get a rosalina amiibo for his kid then everyone get gravity rainbow (for F R E E) its true

>>6486659
He was stalking him for days.
>>6509076
>>6509120
Probably not false that he gets groovy grad students to help him on research. Doesn't mean he's not insane spending all night reading math textbooks and drinking cokes though.

All the apocrypha about Pynchon sez he's really cool with young people and they always swear allegiance to him.

Care to explain, anyone?

>>6509743
holy shit this is like the most obvious joke ever if u know calc

>>6509743
Reading Pinecone makes me wish I paid more attention in high school Calculus class.

All I really remember is that this is an integral.

>>6509771
Then perhaps you can infer that I do not know calc.

>>6485016
is Tao Lin really that bad? Ah, well.
I liked eeeee-eee-eeee-bed()blogspot()com/2006/08/though-shed-begun-to-get-bit-fat-that.html

>>6509743
Integration is an operation, basically means the area a function comprises within a given interval.
The formula for int(1/x) is log(x) + c
"c" being a constant, because integrating a constant yields 0.
"log" means logarithm, but here it's used as a pun.

So "log cabin" + its constant (sea) = houseboat.

It's really stupid.

>>6509743
Rofl, that's so bad.

>>6485016
Internet culture in general has become bizarrely anti-individual as of late. One of the few places you'd expect to see the most individual expression is being divided off into groups more and more.

>>6509788
Christ, that is bad. Thanks anyhow.

>>6509802
It's supposed to be bad since it's given as the kind of thing that an engineering nerd in the 40s might find amusing enough to scribble on a bathroom stall.

>>6509743
holy shit why
this is a joke my own calc teacher made
goddammit pynchon
how can he include what cringes literally everyone

>>6509893
Maybe your calc teacher stole it from Pinecone?

anyone annotate their GR's?
want to share some useful notes to make?

>>6510184
I've got at least a few scribblings on every page. basically anytime Pynchon is talking about shit you've never heard, research and annotations will bring a completely new perspective to the entire novel.

>>6510184
Ishmael Reed

>>6510184
I'm going to read through it blind first time (what I'm doing at the moment) and then I'll revisit the novel in a few years with plans to annotate and research passages.

>>6509814
>>6509802
>>6509790
>>6509788
I feel so stupid still not seeing the humour in this

>>6511759
"c" punned to "sea"
the expression "logarithm(cabin)" punned to "log cabin" (cabin made of logs)

It's groan-humour, not funny humour.

>>6511771
Ohh, Okay, thanks man, that pretty much went over my head really

>>6509893
It's funny how you're trying to come out as smart as Pynchon saying this is stupid when you actually don't get it at all, it's supposed to be funny, it's just a graffiti someone finds there, is not like he's explaining something

>english candy drill chapter
I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

Have you guys ever needed a mid-break from this book, or do you drag yourself through it all and then try reading a few easier books to read afterwards? I'm doing the latter but I know there's times where I really just needed to put this down and spend my time looking elsewhere.

>>6512507
Needed and didn't take, should have.

Will this thread be here tomorrow and finally reach a week old?

>>6512958
We'll hit post limit and fade out.

>>6513062
pls no

>>6513062
ayy

I read GR over the summer, and was running into a library due date, so I finished up the book in a hurry. Read the last 200 pages the day before it was due, and I really missed a lot. The first 3/4 of the book is nice and fleshed out in my mind, and the latter quarter is a blur.

But I keep thinking about the cutaway story of Bernie the Bulb; is it just supposed to signify Slothrop's consciousness eroding/dissipating into the environment or is there some larger allegory to it?

>>6513062
It's been a good run though.

>>6484639
I just finished it today (which also happens to be pinecone's birthday). I had no idea what to expect in The Counterforce, but the ending completely blew me away.

I can't even begin to describe what sort of experience this book has been. It deserves absolutely all the praise and all the hate it ever got.

Usually when I like something I don't say that but in this case as wide an array of reactions as possible is entirely appropriate.

Sry but nebody got link for epbs of this and more Pynchon and maybe some DFW, I need some non Gutenberg books and every once in a while I get them but it takes forever and then I got a new phone, had most Pynchon,,,

>>6514536
Piracy of literature is fucking shameful you sick fuck.

https://mega.co.nz/#F!PBEGgaTb!HETe--F1WE95X5jA1DTIjQ

>>6485452
"As the mustache waxes, Slothrop waxes his mustache"

>>6484639
>yes sounds like a Roll of Honor don't it, being read off someplace out on the prairie, foundry colors down the sky in long troughs, red and purple, darkening crowd of civilians erect wand nearly-touching as wheat stalks, and the one old man in black up at the microphone, reading off the towns of the war dead, Dungannon... Bristol.. Murdo Mackenzie... his white hair blown back by a sculpting thine-alabaster-cities wind into leonine wreathing, his stained pored old face polished by wind, sandy with light, earnest outboard corners of his eyelids folding down as one by one, echoing out over the anvil prairie, the names of death-towns unreel, and surely Bleicherode or Blicero will be spoken any minute now...
>Well, you're wrong, champ-these happen to be towns all located on the borders of Time Zones, is all. Ha, ha! Caught you with your hand in your pants! Go on, show us all what you were doing or leave the area, we don't need your kind around. There's nothing so loathsome as a sentimental surrealist.

How long did it take you guys to read it first time around?

>>6513464

I dunno but you should read this.

http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2014/10/07/planned-obsolescence/

>>6517008
Months but I was used to reading only star wars books and other pulp sci-fi.

>>6517037
Oh man, that must've been an unfortunate task reading GR then

>>6517008
Six weeks reading high and slow as fuck. I need to reread it soberish again soon.

>>6517008
2 months, same context as this guy >>6517037

>>6517040
On the contrary, I consider myself very fortunate.
It really changed what I read and the way I read for the better. It's hard to convince myself that a fucking star wars book is worth my time after something like that.

>>6517008
21 days.

>>6517008
19 days the first time.
5 months so far the second.

Can't believe how much I missed the first time around.

>>6517109
Yeah, I bet there's tonnes I'm missing out on my first read through. What I plan on doing is just finishing the book blindly, with no annotations or anything like that, then revisiting it in a few years with the full plan of going page to page analysing everything, probably looking online for interpretations of buying a book that discusses/explains/understands the book more than I could.

>>6517257
>then revisiting it in a few years with the full plan of going page to page analysing everything, probably looking online for interpretations of buying a book that discusses/explains/understands the book more than I could.
This is the read I'm in the middle of. My University library had a bunch of books on GR, which helped out, but it's also just the amount of notes I'm taking. I never expected things to connect like they do.

>>6517257
Probably the best way of reading it, actually.

Make sure you've read V. second time tackling GR though. It'll help clear things up.

There is no way This book was written by one person at the age of 30.

>>6519569
There is perhaps only one way, which is worse

>>6520343
That Thomas Pynchon is actually a group of people?

It was all good until I got to the Alien

>>6521063
We're all Thomas Pynchon and we don't even know it.

>>6517036
Right. The concept of this 'collectively determined failure' is the driving force behind the 'Byron' episode.

>>6521068
What was wrong with the alien part?

Also thread is about to hit auto-sage. Should we have a new Pynchon general?

>>6521094
>general

Someone here is cleverly allowing for parallax, scaling, shadows all going the right way and lengthening with the day—but no, Pynchon can’t be real, no more than these dark-clothed anons waiting in queues for some hypothetical tram, some two slices of sausage (sure, sure), the dozen half-naked kids racing in and out of this burned tenement so amazingly detailed—They sure must have the time, all right. Look at this desolation, all built then hammered back into pieces, ranging body-size down to powder (please order by Gauge Number), as that well-remembered fragrance Shit Post, essence of human decay, is puffed on the board by a hand, lying big as a flabby horse up some alley, pumping its giant atomizer...

>>6521154
That's what this thread was really, though. It started out as an appreciation thread for Gravity's Rainbow, but people started talking about V., The Crying Of Lot 49, his prose, speculating about photographs of him online, etc.

>>6484890
Just started GR and I lost it at the Adenoid part. What the fuck was that supposed to mean?

>>6521295
It's talking about Pirate's ability to control people's fantasies so the adenoid in London isn't actually happening, it's just detailing a secondary character's abilities. Dude, if you're this lost so early in, you're really going to struggle.

>>6521295
It's a dream.

A dream that Pirate has about an Adenoid taking over the world.

What it most likely is, is that Pirate saw the Charlie Chaplin film The Great Dictator which came out a few years before the book takes place. Charlie Chaplin plays a dictator named Adenoid Hynkel. This causes him to dream about a literal adenoid taking over the world in a Nazi-like fashion.

>>6521987
tbh I think the adenoid part was about Pirate's encounter with that arab official shmuck and his dreams or whatevs when Pirate's ability over people's fantasies was introduced