/lit/ - Literature

I remember the correct solution being something along the line of 'just go home'

>>6476077
The correct solution is to do whatever the fuck you want to.

>>6476064
Guesstimate each outcomes cumulative score of attractiveness/10.
Then I multiply it by the the likelihood of getting laid by my efforts and act accordingly.
The pleasure principal.

>>6476095
So that's a definite yes on pushing the fat guy, then?

>>6476064
Lol At The Scenario

Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?

>>6476064
Kill the one and rape the rest. Trap them in your basement for weeks chained down as you boiled skinned and boiled the others they came with one by one, forcing them to eat their flesh if they want to survive. The last one eat your self, sucking the juicy marrow out of their snapped bones.

>>6476102
Not if having a fat/ugly witness around to provide contrast and corroborate my pseudo-gallant attempt to save the people increases my likelihood of getting laid in the wider world.

>>6476127
Don't cut yourself on it.

>>6476127
12 year old Sickipedia contributor reporting in

>>6476165
>>6476174
Screw you guys. I can do what I want.
Radical Freedom!

>>6476181
Being neutral to outcomes is not the same as acting in the opposite of your morality.

i would most definitely push the fat guy

fuck all fat people

>>6476064
I would pull the lever when the front set of wheel passed the crossing.

>>6476208
Psycho detected.

>>6476233
>not hating fat people
fatty detected

Memes.

Best theme park ever

>>6476233
fuck fat people

The ends justify the means.
Kill one, save 5.

>>6476064
4 years ago, when this came up in college I was utterly disillusioned when I learned that people who wouldn't pull the lever/push the fat man were the majority.

I at least understood the people who got all smug and said 'this thought experiment is pointless and I don't think it has any real relevance to real reality really realness.' I didn't agree, but I at least understood where they were coming from.

But the fact that a good 75% of the class were like 'NO I WOULDN'T SAVE THE FIVE BECAUSE THEN THE BLOOD OF THE ONE WOULD BE ON MY HANDS" or "YUO CAN'T REDUCE PEOPLE TO NUMBERS OMG" or whatever similar Batman-tier moralizing just, blew my goddamn mind, and frankly made me lose hope in people.

I still try to take actions that I hope will 'bring the most happiness to the most people,' but now it's just going through the motions, a withered and vestigial viewpoint barely covering up complete nihilism for the sake of making day-to-day interactions with people more pleasant for them and for me.

>>6476880
I'd save the fatass because I don't think I'd be able to make it to the level on time.

How does that make you feel?

>>6476880
Honestly, I wouldn't pull the lever because I'm a coward.

>>6476784
It's a bit like fucking a big rubber cushion tbh.

>>6476900
the level? What level? And the fatass isn't in any danger except from you in the fat man scenario.

The emotion elicited by your post is confusion.

>>6476230
This is the only correct choice. Pull a fucking James T. Kirk and make a third choice.

Here is a wrinkle to the fat man scenario for you, /lit/:

The fat man is George R.R. Martin. If you spare his life he'll tell you how ASOIAF ends.

>>6476230
>>6476809
kek

>>6476922
Train derails and kills all of the orphans and doctors inside.

>>6476230
>>6476922
The moving section of the track would be kept immobile by the weight of the tram. It would either be impossible to move the switch with your own strength, or the switch would be otherwise ineffective.

>>6476926
I'd definitely push him off if it was him.

>>6476926
i would push him even if there was nobody on the tracks

>>6476921
>Not saving him from himself by becoming his personal trainer and dietician.

>>6476916
Then save the 5 so you have 5x the number of grateful people to defend you from criticism about your choice

>>6476064
>>6476942
Here's a twist for you, the five on track A are deontologists and would deride you for your choice to save them, while the one on track B is a utilitarian who would deride you for saving him.

>>6476064
Pushing fat man to his death is immoral

Pulling a lever is a morally neutral act

The point is not to go full /tg/ and try to outwit the gamemaster of the scenario, the point is to determine the details of whatever moral spooks people have so they can clarify their viewpoints via an easy and accessible 'what-if'

>>6476951
What if the lever was connected to a machine that pushes a fat man to his death?

The tram isn't moving.

>>6476957
If such a machine existed I would spend my time doing nothing but pulling that lever

>>6476948
From my 'life is good' utilitarian viewpoint, I think the lives of 5 presumably decentish humans outweighs any easily ignorable 'MUH FEELS' objections they may have to my actions.

>>6476957
Same thing, pulling a lever is a morally neutral action, I'm not directly killing anybody.

>>6476971
I'll humour you, but I wouldn't advise trying that as a defense in court.

>>6476971
>shooting people isn't murder, strangling people is

Memes.

>>6476064
wat do

>>6476880

>how liberals actually think

The real life application of Kantian morality is this:

You are a surgeon in a hospital. 5 people need various organs, a young guy comes into the hospital with all those organs functioning properly. Should you sedate that person to save the other 5? As a utilitarian you ought to say yes. But everybody fucking knows utilitarians are creepy scumbag faggots who should burn in hell and of course you don't fucking do that you cunt.

I hate you utilitarians slime.

>>6477504
I'd pull the lever, I don't want blood on my awesome loop-da-loop.

>>6476926
This changes the game entirely.

>>6477504
b because doing a loop is worth 3 extra deaths

>>6477504
The struggle

>>6478848
we /math/ now

If I were to run and do a ninja air kick at the train, how much force would I need to push it off the tracks?

?

>>6479499
In this scenario, I'd like to take the Buddhist perspective

>>6479499
I'm allergic to levers and fat guy sweat. Honestly I do what suits me at all times, even when answering anonymous surveys.

>>6476880
These are bad because people are not equal in reality as it seems to imply.

>>6476102
>kill a fat dude & prospective sidekick rather than five fit guys who would otherwise attract all the women while excluding you from their orgies

>>6476880
>NO I WOULDN'T SAVE THE FIVE BECAUSE THEN THE BLOOD OF THE ONE WOULD BE ON MY HANDS

This is basically completely selfish, thought could be reasonable depending on the context.

Pushing the other guy is much more off-putting, because you have no idea who the other guys are on the track in the first place (they might have done something that made it their fault, unlike the guy you are pushing) and you're sacrificing someone else instead of yourself. So it's really much more difficult to say this is justifiable.

>>6476880
>Batman-tier moralizing
don't pull the Batman into this, he would find a way to save all of them and without causing injury to train passengers or bystanders

>>6476064
In my eyes, people in this situation (and any life/death situation) are just numbers. The one dies every time I get this decision.

>>6479499
>No dude on the tracks who has access to a lever

>>6476880
I've never seen that before, is that a rare Stirner?

>>6476233

FUCK FAT PEOPLE

>>6476880

edgy

stirner is the pleb nietzsche

>>6479677

No you don't. You're a coward and you let other people tell you how to act

>>6478823
and he's somehow magically a match for all 5 people

yet another example of deontologists inventing fictional fringe scenarios to force "wrong answers" out of a good rule-of-thumb

>>6479912

>he studied this in college
>he will never have a real job

>>6479919
DO NOT click this image

>don't think just push the lever to the middle so it's in a neutral position to force you to think more objectively
>then you have to act
>think and realize that you should kill one person and save five
>push the lever
>or don't be a dumb faggot and just push the lever without needless philosophy

let it hit them then switch it so the next train hits the guy who's left

It's pretty well known you can construct ludicrous hypothetical scenarios to test people's principles. But I don't accept that. I don't accept that these scenarios really reveal anything at all. In the heat of the moment, no person knows ahead of time what they're going to do. And whatever they do can either be justified in their own mind or it can't. Trying to link this to philosophical systems is a pure waste of time.

>>6479944

why? what happens?

>>6476102
Well honestly the fat man would probably be the preferable choice.

I mean think about it, you can kill a normal functional human being to save 5 lives, or you can kill a fat land-whale that will probably live in its basement for the rest of its life.

the fat fuck would not stop a trolley. you'd simply be killing him just because you hate land whales, want to add to the carnage or a combination of both.

>>6476951
No it's not. You're pulling the lever with the intention of killing one person (albeit to save five people)

>>6479944

i'm scared to click it

>>6481303
>You're pulling the lever with the intention of killing one person
You're pulling the lever to have a net profit of 4 people saved.

>>6481651
Filthy utilitarist, tell that to the guy you are killing

Personally, I would have watch them all die while taking a sip from my finest wine. *ah* how lovely

>>6481705
Filthy deontologist, you're moral philosophy boils down to feeling good about yourself irrespective of real world consequences. You're like Pilate washing his hands.

>>6481726
Implying deontology and utilitarianism aren't equally filthy. Have fun with not focusing on the most important issue, your character.

>>6477504
kek'd hard

>>6481726
>You're like Pilate washing his hands

>>6481726
Pilate did nothing wrong

>>6481755
I believe in virtue ethics anyway so nyah!

>>6481767
>Pilates did nothing wrong

>>6481726
>you're moral philosophy
No, I'm a human being. You are a utilitarist though, such ideas can be hard to grasp I guess.
All you utilitarists do is a pursue of "happiness" that you can't measure nor define in this pursue you lose the only thing that makes us human - ideals. The world where killing 1 person to save 2 is acceptable may be "happier" in an animal sense, but it's not the world I want to live in. Why don't you just spend your life getting high on endorfines?
>real world
keked

>>6481839
So you just kill 5 people?

>>6481847
No, I let them die. Not like I care about random people anyway, I believe moralty is a spook, I just like shitposting.

You signal the driver and tell him to stop.

>>6481855
>Not like I care about random people anyway, I believe moralty is a spook, I just like shitposting.
I guess that's more than one point we have in common.

Also I think letting the tram run over the 5 might actually be the most utilitarian.
They're obviously bound to those tracks for a reason, either suicide or a being with more might has put them on those tracks.
Either way, if they want to die. That's fine.
If they're tied to the track because a mightier being wanted them run over, then I rather serve might.

>>6481871
But then you acknowledge, accept and submit yourself to that might (id est, you don't defy its deeds) that might do the same thing to you.

If they were committing suicide, why would they be bound?

Your logic is shit and I hope you get killed by a train.

>>6476784
no thanks

>>6476064
Push the fat man because it's funny, don't flip the switch because it's funnier.

>Morality
Its like arguing about sports teams or your favorite food.

Decide faggots

Pull the lever,
irrelevant of what the result will be.
One should practice control.

>>6481969
>But then you acknowledge, accept and submit yourself to that might (id est, you don't defy its deeds) that might do the same thing to you.
If he can put 6 guys on the track, then he can do the same to me.
So I'd rather suck his cock, which isn't that bad anyway,

>If they were committing suicide, why would they be bound?
So their cult-leader is 100% sure they can't pussy out.

>Your logic is shit and I hope you get killed by a train.
You too

>>6479499
the reason this is the best one is because of the coordinate system

although the one with the giant man with the halo around his head is also good

Well? Which drains first?

>>6482577
Left because air pressure and shit.

>>6482580
Pexternal = Pinternal

>>6482631
fintibinty = squablledidoo

i can make shit up just as well as you can