/lit/ - Literature

>>6440801
I've been waiting for an excuse to post this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b014gk72

I don't believe in beliefs.

I was raised by a "religion is for scared and ignorant people" atheist, became ambivalent about God at age 22 (out of no disrespect for my father), now I'm 23 and looking to go full religious but I don't know how or why I want to, and I suspect it will be deeply unfulfilling.

Any good churches in Toronto?

yes, yes, of course we're religious ;-)

>>6440801
forgot to mention that one of the things that prompted this question had been my readings of Pascal. He seemed really like an enlightenment path the church could have taken but never did

>tfw raised in the authoritarian benedictine tradition and not the libertine jansenist

>>6440829
>Any good churches in Toronto?
what are you looking for in a church? I don't know anything about Toronto, but even my small american town has dozens of different congregations (America is unique in this I think).

Are you looking for an organized religion? Looking to handle snakes? Speak tongues?

You could always go Anglican, which is a lot like Catholicism except they're closer to you on social issues. Praying to Mary isn't something normally done though except among Anglo-Catholics, but it isn't considered heretical.

>not being breadpilled
>MMXV

I was raised Catholic but not dogmatically so by two sort of agnostic/indifferent parents who vaguely pro-religion but didn't really believe too strongly themselves. Probably because it wasn't forced on me, and my teenage nonbelief was accepted by my parents, I still have pretty positive feelings about Catholicism (and religion in general), to the point of considering myself basically Catholic even though I do not attend church regularly, nor do I think I believe in heaven or hell. I might attend church if I wanted more social interaction, and to OP: I think that's a good reason to. If I moved to a new city without anyone I knew I would probably find a good liberal Catholic mass and attend regularly.

My sister and her husband have found, somewhat to their frustration, that there are very few strong community service organizations except church ones, so they have kind of re-entered religious life just to become more involved, which is interesting. Being social, and active, and involved, and supportive of others is and should be a major part of any religion. People are social creatures, and the transcendent sorts of feeling you get through religion are only really possible in mass settings, I think.

Anyway yeah man, Google around and find the most liberal/left Catholic church in your area you can find, and go to it. Dunno what your politics are, but there are historically some pretty interesting lefty types that come out of the Catholic church, I bet you can find and hang out with some if you want.

out of curiosity, do you know any orthodox churches there? greek orthodox here

>>6440801
>but even if I did I know the church would always take me back
This right here is exactly why I'm not religious.

>I don't live a very sinful live (except for pre-marital sex and occasional gluttony--drinking too much)

You live a sinful life.

>like abortion and same-sex marriage and pre-marital sex

That's horrible.

>>6441084
Well, yeah, but he's wrong. You do confession, they take you back, that's how it works in Catholicism; everyone does that. And in Anglicanism, works the same way, except you confess to God rather than your priest if you want.

>>6440955
>Anglo-Catholics
do you know what a contradiction of terms that is?

most american catholics are italian, irish, french, polish, spanish -- not "anglo"

and there aren't many catholics in england anymore

>>6441228
Anglo-Catholic means an Anglican who is Catholic in pretty much every way apart from being a Papist.
http://www.advent-sf.org/

T.S. Eliot, for instance, was an Anglo-Catholic.

>>6441347
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Catholicism
A big distinction between Anglo-Catholics and other Anglicans, is that most use The Book of Common Prayer, whereas Anglo-Catholics use the Anglican Missal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Missal

>>6440801
>willingly being in a room full of people that are all dewy-eyed and brimming with a bizarre confidence in some thing that they don't really understand and didn't really try to understand before making it the rock of their intellect and emotions

>>6441403
To fully understand is to conquer. Of course they don't understand it.

>>6440801
I do believe in Catholicism, though I've only recently started going to mass and not regularly enough, I haven't been confirmed either but I'll get there I guess.

I think it is better to go to church, imo it's hard to maintain a strong faith if you're immersed in the secular world all the time. Sometimes its nice to just drop everything for an hour whatever a week.

You could talk to a priest I guess concerning social issues. Daily masses usually have fewer people than Sunday.

>>6441471
>I haven't been confirmed either but I'll get there I guess.
Have you been baptized? Do you take communion? It's somewhat of a laborious process for adults to convert to the catholic church, but it can be done and churches all have programs for it.
>You could talk to a priest I guess concerning social issues.
I think I would have to find the right priest. Most of my interaction with priests has been through a screen at confession, which was never a very pleasant experience. I also knew some priests as teachers in my high school and they were all aging assholes. One of them in my high school used to make racist comments against blacks in class too.

>>6441403
>>willingly being in a room full of people that are all dewy-eyed and brimming with a bizarre confidence in some thing that they don't really understand and didn't really try to understand before making it the rock of their intellect and emotions
Have you ever been to a catholic mass? In my experience catholics at least KNOW that they do not understand. That's why it's called the MYSTERY of christ. Whether or not the way the catholic church shrouds the teachings and practices in an aura of mystery is a good thing is up for debate, but for me it certainly beats the more evangelical strands of protestantism with their confidence in the meanings of the scriptures. Admitting to one's own ignorance is not a problem for the church; they're not going to just throw a bible in your hand.

>>6441134
>You live a sinful life.
So does everyone else. Maybe what attracts me to catholicism is that you're not expected to live a sin-free life? I don't know. I never really understood the whole idea of "catholic guilt."

>>6440979
>I was raised Catholic but not dogmatically so by two sort of agnostic/indifferent parents who vaguely pro-religion but didn't really believe too strongly themselves. Probably because it wasn't forced on me, and my teenage nonbelief was accepted by my parents, I still have pretty positive feelings about Catholicism (and religion in general), to the point of considering myself basically Catholic even though I do not attend church regularly, nor do I think I believe in heaven or hell.
Sounds exactly like me. My parents don't even go to church anymore now that their kids are grown (my older brother and his wife though are raising their family in the church).

continued from this guy: >>6441719

>>6440979
>Anyway yeah man, Google around and find the most liberal/left Catholic church in your area you can find, and go to it. Dunno what your politics are, but there are historically some pretty interesting lefty types that come out of the Catholic church, I bet you can find and hang out with some if you want.
I grew up and still live just a few miles from the University of Notre Dame, home of conservative catholicism if there ever was one in america. There's even a big Opus Dei chapter here, as well as a "quiverfull" movement. I think I'd have trouble finding a liberal church in this bumfuck city. There do seem to be two catholic worker missions in town that I should check out though. As for my politics, I am somewhat of an unorthodox Marxist, but I'm not looking for a synthesis of Marxism and catholicism, rather I guess I find personal peace in trying to understand the church. As a side note, I have an older friend who grew up in the 80s and remembered when his catholic parish used to hide revolutionary communists from el salvador and nicaragua when the US gov't was funding a proxy war against them.

I see that the old church I used to visit always had a bunch of "singles events," but I wonder if I can actually go to them and talk about the struggles I have with my faith. I'm a long-lapsed catholic. The last time I went to mass was last christmas, I chose not to receive communion, and in general it was the worst day of my life and I do associate mass with that. Might ask my mother to go with me on mother's day, idk

>>6441769
Marxist Episcopalian here, bro.

>>6440801
I attend a Buddhist temple, but I believe in a God

>>6440835
I'd like to read that article.

I'm an atheist AMA.

>>6442144
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/september/9.24.html

That was a good read.

>mfw newwave counter culture fags who no longer want to not go to church because other neckbeards don't and rag on going there
>mfw you faggots care so much about how people perceive you that you go so far as to change your beliefs so you don't look like part of "that" crowd.
Truly no group of humans are more pitiful

>>6442230
All humans do that. Do you think your beliefs would be what they are ideologically if you were born in ancient times?

>>6442248
>all humans
Sorry bro, not a degenerate here. I stick to my beliefs and don't turn my back on them because some autist also like a them

>>6442265
Your beliefs don't from you, they are all either viruses of the mind, or shibboleths.

>>6442230
David Foster Wallace I am a New Wave Memer and I Doesn't Believe or Not Believe A Single Damn Thing this Way Or that

>>6442230
There is not counter-culture.
No one changed there belief.
The internet isnt one person.
As neckbeardism became (correctly) ridiculed,
People released criticising religion was stupid,
The existing Christians could then discuss beliefs without ridicule.
Hence it appears 4chan becomes more Christian.
When actually the Christian users became more vocal.
You've fallen for an Observer Effect.

If anyone does convert due to this,
It is because they've read the books recommended,
And were convinced.

I'd be VERY surprised if someone converted to be hip.
Christianity is still un-hip for the majority of the Internet still,
Let alone THE REAL WORLD.

p.s. Church attending catholic for 17 years

>>6440801
No, I'm an atheist.

>>6440801
>is /lit/ religious?
Yes.
>Is it out of fashion or conviction or tradition?
You can be religious only out of conviction. Everything else is just pretending.
I did 8 years of catechism and 12 years of catholic schooling, but I've since been inactive in the church for the past 7 years because I don't really see a place for it and God in my life.
>For those of you who are religious, what do you get out of it?

Religion isn't a supermarket. You don't do it because you get things out of it. If you want to come into it come without the mindset of getting things. God isn't a bank where you loan happiness in exchange for prayer.
Do you attend church regularly?
I do
To be honest, I've been thinking of going back to church just for the singles events that they have often.
Then don't go. It isn't a fashion.
The social aspect is what I miss most about church (it's worth sitting though an hour or lecture, prayer, and song every sunday morning).
>I don't live a very sinful live (except for pre-marital sex and occasional gluttony--drinking too much), but even if I did I know the church would always take me back.
Which by Catholic standards is a life that gets you to hell. Two deadly sins and total lack of sacraments. Count in both the fact that you have been told of the gospel and that everyone has sins he isn't aware of, son you are fucked up.
>Is it worth going to church? or better just to have a private relationship with God? My biggest issue is that I do disagree with the church on some issues (like abortion and same-sex marriage and pre-marital sex),
Then don't go to church. It isn't for whiny faggots who assume they know that the Logos has became wrong in the past 50 years. And yes, Episcopalians are heretics. They've got very little with God.
but I like to think that the one can keep one's personal life separate from the church as an institution.
You can't. You must strive for a life in service to God and others. The institution is the living body of Christ.
I live in a very catholic are where they actively campaign against things like how obamacare mandates insurers cover birth control, it's pretty bad. I don't agree with that at all, but I have a nagging feeling I want to return to the church.
>As for joining other religions: I think it's completely unimaginable for reasons I can't explain, I was raised in the one true, holy apostolic church and can't think of joining any others.
You'll like other religions better because you see faith as means to personal gain, wish to conform to your wrong ways, have no interest in repentance. Unless you wish to change those it's pointless to be in the church.

>>6442152
Would you rather fight a horse-sized duck or a hundred duck-sized horses?

>>6442588
>You don't do it because you get things out of it.
Then why do you do it?

>>6440801
Yes I just wrote a heavily Jewish infused article on my blog. It is called Online Grieving. I would appreciate any commentary or critiques.
Please give it a chance.
karmicdeath d ot wordpress d ot c om

>>6442592
Would you rather sit on a pie and a eat a dick, or sit on a dick and eat a pie?

>>6442606
Because it is the truth. Because it is right. Those who wish to get things out of it will get nothing. They are trying to device God.

>>6442609
In Judaism the most serious loss is the loss of a parent. Those who incur this loss go through a year of mourning, called Shneim asar chodesh, which exceeds the second-longest period of mourning, Sloshim, which lasts thirty days but is not as strict as Shiva, a seven day period of mourning that is customary (or required depending on your adherence to Halacha, or Jewish law) that occurs after the burial of anyone who has died where the bereaved must follow special rules and are to be comforted, prayed for, and brought food (what Jewish tradition would not involve food!).

As my mother jokes, every Jewish holiday has the same rough story. They fought us, we won, let’s eat. She jokes well. Her humor was one of the many attributes that led my father to marry her (and they are still happily married, thank you very much!). My mom’s own experience with losing a parent was more sour than any miracle fruit can make sweet. Her mother had been dealing with Colon Cancer. Following successful treatment with chemotherapy at the famed Sloan-Kettering Memorial Hospital my maternal grandmother underwent exploratory surgery which ended up showing that the cancer was gone.

This was a pyrrhic victory if there ever was one. While in a medically induced sedated state, to my knowledge before the good news of her remission was known, an intern (aka an M.D. in their first year of residency after graduating medical school), switched her saline and oxygen tubes, unwittingly, at night, assumedly while tired and careless, and in my grandmother’s sedated state she could not wake up.

>>6442592
I can deal with one target, not with one hundred
>>6442611
I'd much rather sit on the dick and eat the pie, thank you I wouldn't mind eating a dick either, if you catch my drift

>>6442619
Instead she drowned in a hospital bed.

Now my mother jokes not to get sick around July 1st, which is traditionally when American Medical residents start their years of residency.

As a family, we have all been sick and hospitalized, and we have a new rule from this tragedy; we never leave anyone alone overnight because that’s what happened to my grandmother and my mother has never forgiven herself, eagle-eyed mother that she is, from not being there and noticing such an obvious blunder by a doctor.

When my father had a heart attack, my mother begged me to go home. I could not stop thinking of my grandmother and so I stayed the night, sleeping on a hospital bed. Late at night I walked into my father’s hospital room. He as in an induced coma.

When I was seventeen my parents had me involuntarily committed to an involuntary adolescent mental hospital for 72 hours, lying and saying they feared I would come at them in bed late with a knife (perhaps I was a more unstable 17 year old than I thought thought, and really was scaring the daylights out of my parents). I was released and told my classmates and teachers that I had had the flu. I never told my dad “I love you” after that because of his cold, somber eyes as he watched me get handcuffed and placed in a police car for transfer to the hospital when I was a teenager who had just come out as bisexual and couldn’t be more fragile.

>>6442622
I walked into my dad’s hospital room late at night, it was only me and him and Gd in there and I sang him the traditional Hebrew prayer for wellness, Mi Sheberach. I also sang my favorite prayer. Y’hiyu L’ratzon. It goes

Y’hiyu l’ratzon imrei fi, imrei fi
Vhegyon libi lfanecha,
Adonai, tzuri, Adonai,
Adonai, tzuri vgoali, vgoali.

That translates roughly in English to:

May the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart
be acceptable to You,
O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer.

I asked Gd not to save my father, just to listen.

I also told my father, while holding his hand and crying a stream of tears thought unending, I love you.

>>6442624
Now I tell my Dad I love you whenever I remember to.

My maternal grandfather, distraught at the death of his wife at a fairly young age (early 50’s), fought the hospital in a malpractice suit and won. Money cruelly will not bring her back, as much as I miss her: the grandmother who died before I was born.

I frequent an internet chat room site. I have many friends there, and one of whom I talked to for years off and on, even when I was homeless and tethering my laptop so I could get an internet connection from my iPhone in a gym adjacent to the large rec. room we homeless men were sleeping (or meant to) on cots and thin woolen blankets in.

His name is Kenny. He is beautiful inside and out. He could charm anyone, and had a sense of humor for miles. He never said a word to me that was mean-hearted while others called me a faggot and a kike. He was the rare soul that is so kind-hearted that earth is too dark of a place for them to even exist. He took solace in heroin. Heroin took solace in him.

One day in 2015 Heroin took his life.

>>6442626
My immediate response was shock. Someone I’d never met was gone and I had certainly no way of attending the funeral but I needed to pay tribute, honor, to his memory. I called my mother, and asked her where the nearest and next Friday Shabbat service was. I went to a new temple she recommended, thinking not of what the service would be like, but of his laughter, his sealskin boots that he prizes so much.

I am a Reform Jew by birth and by choice. The service my mom had sent me to was an orthodox service. Men sat separately from the women. My mom sent me there because it was a service for young people, and indeed it was my own age group, primarily apart from the Rabbi people in their 20’s and 30’s. When time came for the traditional funeral prayer, the Mourner’s Kaddish, I stood up, as I would at my usual Reform Temple, and said his name, loudly, prior to the start of the prayer to mark to the congregation that I was honoring the dead.

This was not the custom at my temporary place of worship. The Rabbi stared at me and said something to the effect of “what are you doing?”. Apparently, he explained later apologetically, only those who have lost a parent may say a name aloud at that point in their dogma. I could have been upset. I was not. I could think of nothing that would have made Kenny happier than me making a fool of myself, wearing a sweaty t-shirt in a room of neatly pressed collared dress shirted men and long-skirted women, yelling out my friends name, to the bewilderment of the entire congregation.

>>6442484

You know, I don't even know whether you're trolling or not. I blame Poe's law

>>6442628

I miss you Kenny.

Sometimes I think my mom is still sitting Shiva, all these decades later, still mourning.

Sometimes I join her in mourning, silently, without her knowledge, for I too am an avel, a mourner.

The most important person we say Kaddish for is the person who has nobody to say Kaddish for them.

The most important voice is the one that cannot be heard.

>>6442629
He is right

>>6442631
Any thoughts on my writing? Sorry I had to chop it up into all those parts. Its all one piece on my blog.

>Is /lit/ religious?

Probably, depends on your definition of 'religious'. The tradition is not widely known/recognized, I don't go to any sort of 'church' and I haven't partaken on any religious sacraments, although I would like to in the future. Nonetheless, I am a very spiritual person and the belief system I adhere to plays a great role in my life.

>Is is out of fashion or conviction or tradition?

I would say in essence, none of those really. I had a set of experiences in my life that lead me to a sort of understanding (through which I found the abovementioned tradition). I've always been critical of this understanding, and at the beginning, there's been times where I reverted back to my old way of thinking, saying: 'that must've been just some sort of illusion/wishful thinking'. However, things kept happening that always pulled me back and progressively, I learned more and more of what was happening to me, when it got to a point I could never really abandon it.

>For those of you who are religious, what do you get out of it?

Eh, for me, it's not really a question of getting something out of it, since for me it's really not about 'believing' - my world-view is just the way it is because A) I experienced (and still am experiencing on a quasi-regular basis) some stuff, and B) it really does make rational sense to me, on a phillosophical level, much more than atheism or a different religious belief. However, I would say I experienced benefits to the quality of my life, because ever since 'I converted', my life has been very exciting and interesting. Also, I'd say that I'm much more easy-going and balanced thanks to my world-view, in day-to-day life.

>Do you attend church regularly?

As I mentioned above - no, but I probably would have, if there was a suitable, 'my' kind of church around.

>Is it worth going to church? or better just to have a private relationship with God?

I would say that going to the church can be quite beneficial, since it gives you a sense of community, but the most fundamental thing in spirituality should be ALWAYS your own relationship to the divine. You should try to seek that, before going to any church or organized religion. Or I don't know...that's what I think personally, anyway. You shouldn't just take my word for it - I'm just some random guy on the internet, what the heck do I know. But from my experience, I'm certain that the social aspect in religion always stands second to one's personal endeavour.

>>6442633

But he isn't. All the 'christians' on here are nothing more than a bunch of whiny contrarians, who only believe in something because it goes against the status quo. Since being non-religious is now pretty much the status quo, 4channers decided to be the ultimate whiny contrarians and became hardcore religious. The fedora meme is even more pathetic, as it's basically saying 'your views are wrong because you look unfashionable'.

People like you are the single most pathetic people on the planet. You can be talked into anything, as long as it's hip and contrarian. You're more a bunch of edgy neckbeards than anyone on reddit can ever be

Can someone explain Catholic guilt? Why is this guilt limited to Catholics and not all Christians?

>>6442634
I liked it. If you work on it and turn it into a novel then it'd be a great piece of creative non-fiction, lots of great story potential there.

>>6442634
It's the the type of article I'd read in an issue of the Forward, and I don't mean that in a good way. It's not really bad, I just can't stand religious Jewish writing, though I'm a great admirer of secular Jewish prose. You've got that very precise Jewish diction and syntax which I enjoy, but it's backed by a religious conviction that I don't think matches that style well. When I read the writing of religious people communicating religious concepts, I'm partial to an Old Testament fiery, self-assured style. I don't like this self-probing analytic Jewish faithful mode.

>>6442663
So basically I'm too neurotic for you? I am comfortable with that mode. Perhaps I will mature out of it.
>>6442658
A novel!
I love short form non-fiction though!
Also could use some love and critiques for my blog
karmicdeath d ot wordpress d ot c om

>>6442646

>>6442649
It isn't a thing.

>>6442669
I don't mind neurotic writers per se, just neurotic religious writers. Like I said, I like religious writing when it is self assured and direct and evocative, I like secular (particularly Jewish) writing when it is conflicted and shaky, though precise and analytic.

Religious writing should be grounded by a stone foundation of faith; secular writing does not require this.

That's just my opinion of course.

>>6442672

>I can only respond through image macros and ebin maymays

Pathetic. I really hope this '#rekt360noscope' version of Christianity that 4channers follow becomes the dominant branch of Christianity, maybe then someone will set you straight on how retarded you people are

I was raised in a christian family, although in one of the more moderate branches. It would be nice to believe in a god that loved me and would let me live forever in paradise and punish bad people but just because something should be true doesn't make it so. You hear these christian fagboats saying "A world without god would be a horrible place!" "Without god there could be no morality!" Well nigger, look around you, turn on the news, read a book. I'm an atheist because:

>dislike the behavior of most religious people
>there is no evidence for any of the thousands of religions that have been popular over the years

I try to be respectful but I will always see religion as a personal failing in people. I wish people would just privately worship instead of trying to make everyone else follow along. I wish people would think about the sheer irrationality of faith before they post a fedora picture or the irl equivalent.

Also how in the hell is atheism "hip" or "trendy" when 80% of americans are religious?

>>6442698

>>6442691
No, I see your criticism, it is valid. It is a bit too chunky formalist to be accessible to non-religious Jews. I will keep that in mind the next time I write on Judaism.

>>6442649
Has to do with back when Catholics had this idea that masturbating was killing unborn babies because it wasted semen.

>is /lit/ religious?

/lit/ cannot be generalised as either religious or not religious. this board is generally more welcoming of (particularly christianity) religion than most of the internet though

>Is it out of fashion or conviction or tradition?

false dichotomy. I've been attended church all my life and certainly don't do so for any kind of image though

>For those of you who are religious, what do you get out of it?

I do not think this is the appropriate mindset to be approaching any of the major religions with.

>Is it worth going to church?

Yes? Go to church if you believe.

>>6440829
>religion is for scared and ignorant people
Christianity is for scared and ignorant people, plenty other religions out there

>>6440801
Apathetic Atheist here, can't stand the more militant breed of New Atheism. I was raised as nominally Lutheran, but never really 'got' it. The Old Testament contains some of the most fucked up morals I've ever read, but otherwise the Bible is pretty good book.

>>6442796
OT is pretty sound morally, as far as ancient times go. Forgive all debts every seven years, treat your slaves with respect, treat foreigners as equals, don't sacrifice your babies, etc. YHWH is also an extremely forgiving and merciful God compared to his contemporaries, I can't think of any other God who is praised over and over again for his capacity for mercy, as YHWH is in Psalms, the idea that you simply have to repent and God will forgive you is pretty unique..

>>6442783
What do you think the point of following a religion is then if it's not to get something out of it?

>>6442800
>>6442617

>>6442617
what makes it more true than any other religion?

>>6442799
I'm more thinking about stuff like the curse of Canaan, which is arbitrary and completely fucking unfair. What is the lesson here we're supposed to take home? Dude's trying to do the right thing, and is sentenced to slavery instead.

>>6442841
The guy is implied to have sodomized his dad, at least according to Harold Bloom. It's also supposed to be dark humor, not some sort of moral parable.

>>6442850
>implied to have sodomized his dad
That's reading quite a lot between the lines, and perhaps tells us more about Harold Bloom than the Bible.

Anyhow, to me that bit tells me that "decorum is more important than trying to be a decent human being", which is a pretty rotten moral to teach, dark humor or not.

>>6442867
Harold Bloom was raised on the Torah and had been reading it in Hebrew since he was a boy, so I wouldn't cast aside his interpretation so swiftly.

The Bible isn't just about moral commentary, it's about commentary on a lot of things. The talking ass, for instance, is commentary on fraudulent seers (the ass can see better than the seer riding him can). Thinking most of the lessons or points of the Bible are moral imperatives is a mistake.

I was raised Anglican and identify as such culturally (Church of England). I used to be very dismissive of the Church but the Catholic fundies on /lit/ have made me more sympathetic towards it.

I have traveled extensively and have lived abroad, and am well aware that Christianity is not the only religion, nor the only one with sophisticated apologia.

I know it's quite a fedora-tier opinion but I maintain that most religions are too anthropocentric. I believe that an eternal universe (one that has existed forever) is just as plausible as a created one (hell, next month CERN might even prove the rainbow gravity theory to be correct), and refuse to believe that a deity would eternally punish people for putting them in a world in which nothing precluded disbelief.

I'm not a fedoratard though - religion has played an important role in state-building and the creation of culture, and the atrocities associated with it often have complex political motives rather than strictly theological grounding.

I enjoy studying the origins of religious material in my spare time, particularly stuff pertaining to the Abrahamic faiths.

>>6442832
Inner coherence and personal experience.

>>6442947
That's pretty fedoric, sorry.
>>>/reddit/

>People actually being christian in 2015


Hahahahahahaha

>>6440801

>all these "Liberal Catholics"
you guys realize that just means that you aren't actually Catholic right? You are either Catholic or you aren't, there aren't degrees of it. If you believe in gay marriage, abortion, contraception, etc., you might should just be protestant. Either live by God's Law and be in Communion with the Church, or don't.

>>6442588
this dude gets it

>>6442609
stop shilling your faggy blog

>>6442646
>All the 'christians' on here are nothing more than a bunch of whiny contrarians, who only believe in something because it goes against the status quo

Or maybe its because we realized a life away from God isn't worth living

>>6443753

In that case, you people have extremely sad lives

>>6443761
I find more fulfillment and joy in attending Mass then i ever did in sex or drugs. I used to worship satan and preform sex magic rituals and shoot heroin daily and it never gave me anything except for passing pleasure or an ego boost. In Christ i've found more Love and appreciation for my life and the people around me than i ever had before. That is why i'm Catholic.

>>6442588
I agree with almost all your points, but there's no need to swear

I can't take religion on /lit/ seriously because it's like religion on /pol/ and designed to incite ire, normalfag being the new edgy and all.

>>6442606
>>6442617
I agree with him. I do not believe in God but if I were to get into any religion out of anything but pure faith it would be dishonest.

>>6443753
>>6443779

>>6443723
>. If you believe in gay marriage, abortion, contraception
So more than half of Catholics in the U.S., including a decent chunk of the clergy (my vicar's ordination was attended by two Catholics priest friends of hers), and nearly half of Catholics in Europe?

>>6443779

So in other words, you were a moron and you're still a moron

>>6444784
Vicar. Kek.
And yes, only about 10% of European Catholics are actually Catholic. More in a few countries. Less in some. You can't be an honest educated Catholic and believe in those things, heck even in "vicars".
It's blasphemy by any standards.

>>6442620
iamnt

>>6442620
my dick pays rent; captcha: phoul

>>6444798
>Vicar. Kek.
>knee-jerk reaction to a word based on Britcom viewing

>>6444792
religious people a dumb meme XD
>>6444784
That is correct.

>>6444798
Roman Catholics have vicars too, they just perform a different function.

>>6444912
They aren't "female priests" which is the point of the kek