/lit/ - Literature

why don't you ask a priest

>>6413438
May not be the best source, but because it is a form of lust. Lust is also one of the seven deadly sins, and there are a few mortal sins related to lust, such as adultery, in the form of a commandment. It isn't viewed as one of the worst sins, because you can be forgiven for it, but it is looked on negatively.

because babby jesus said so

>>6413438
Because the human sex drive is incredibly powerful and needs to be kept in check.

>>6413484
Being in control doesn't require abstinence

>>6413438
Because the patriarchal society of desert jews wanted to continue to demean and oppress women

>>6413488
Christianity doesn't require abstinence.

>>6413497
What rules on sex does your version of christianity have?

>>6413497
heretic please go

>>6413494
Christians aren't Jews, Kraut.

>>6413502
There is only one version: sex is for marriage.

>>6413514
Again then, being in control doesn't require abstinence until marriage.

>>6413520
According to the Bible it does.

The Bible > anon

>>6413527
Glad you fell back on that; I didn't feel like getting into an internet argument

>>6413533
If you want to know what Christians believe, just read the Bible!

define sexual immorality

>>6413480
All Jesus said was to not break the vow of marriage:

>don't fuck someone else's wife
>don't cheat on your wife

>>6413533
why do atheists get baited by other atheists so easily

>>6413558
why do christfags assume anyone who disagrees with christianity is an atheist

>>6413438
who cares, Christianity is a meme
It's like wondering why le feels guy is so sad

Most of the rules of sex are inherited directly from the Jews. The Jews decided that anything that didn't make babies and increase their relatively small numbers was bad. So they banned fucking each other up the bum or spilling your seed on the ground.

>>6413563
lack of a better term, sorry
but seriously it's painfully obvious he's trolling

>>6413563
Because Christians use "atheist" as an insult, although no one is offended by that.
>Cultural Marxist.
>Degenerate.
>Commie.
>Woman.

They certainly don't want abstinence, they want profligacy, they want as many little souls to baptise as possible. That's why christianity is still so popular, all those babies that haven't grown into their fedoras yet.

>>6413585
No we don't.

>>6413438
>why is immorality considered immoral?

gee i wonder

>>6413595
kek

>>6413589
Well, maybe you don't but there are people who do. Thay also use the terms I mentioned in that post which offend no one (except for "woman").

>>6413602
Are you American ? I suppose that can apply to christfags in america.

I am devout and I have many theologyfags friends, and never ever in our entourage has someone authorized himself the luxury of being condescending towards an atheist.

>>6413578
Why was fucking children allowed, then?

>>6413602
>Thay also use the terms I mentioned in that post which offend no one
Are you getting your perception of Christians from /pol/
Be honest because no one seriously calls anyone a cultural marxist or a degenerate outside of 4chan

>>6413438

Because Agustine thought that when God made Adam and Eve they didn't know about sex. For Agustine the forbidden fruit repressented sex and that the original sin stems from humanities lustfull desires that's why he praised abstinence and why he gave theological structure to feelings of guilt and shame in a biological drive. However, the enforcement of the doctrine of sexual guilt was difficult. The struggle was to impose celibacy on the clergy. It was only moderately successful until well into the Middle Ages.

>>6413612
Children can be fertile at a young age.

>>6413578

There was a sort of anti-sex string in Plato though mostly for political reasons, and in Aristotle, but nothing of the extreme sort you find in Origen and in Augustine.

For the ancients sex was more about spirituality rather than identity and conduct so they didn't have regulations about sex or homosexuality. Christianity formulated this completely hypocritical idea that sex is evil and that lustfull thoughts are works of the devil, since the brought about the original sin. Mariage in christianity is completely utilitarian and has no spiritual meaning whatsoever apart from pro-creation.

>>6413438
NATURAL LAW
A
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A
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L
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>>6413602
>>6413620
Please respond
I am 85% sure you're getting your perceptions of christians from /pol/acks

>>6413438
>he's never read augstine

>>6413652

Isin't this the most ironic aspect of Christianity. They firmly believe that sex without marriage is giving in to your lustfull desires, when at the same time they think that pro-creation is the end goal of sexual desire while the other is is animal is wrong.

In fact the exact opposite is true, sex has absolutely no utilitarian value and is sexuality is an in itself, from the abstract christian perspective there is no imminence only this "normalization" of the simple animal sexual desire, hence why screwing like rabits to make children is sacred for the church, while for the sexual pervert it is meaningess.

>>6413629
>Because Agustine thought that when God made Adam and Eve they didn't know about sex

it is heavily implied that they had sex before banishment, they just had no idea if it was right or wrong since they lived in the harmonic pre-material natural world in which right-wrong thinking is pointless since God represents the ultimate moral authority

Once they adopted their own moral authority (the feeling of shame when they realized they're naked) they had no place anymore in Eden and its existence became obsolete

>>6413686

an end in itself*

>>6413647
>Marriage in Christianity has no spiritual meaning
Which is why it's a sacrament, right?

>>6413700

It's a way to seal pro-creation, the only spiritual aspect in it is that sexuality is an entirely abstract concept in christianity, passion and lust the things which axctually foster sexual relationships are viewed as bad. Especially Catholicism was in fact so anti-sex that viewed marriage as something far beneath asceticism and abstinence.

>>6413686
>>6413715
You realize that the institution of marriage is basically a religious custom in its roots, and as such isn't exclusive to Christianity, right?

>>6413438
Sexual immorality in itself isn't evil or abominable because it is bad, it is wrong because it goes against God or the Church. Not because of a punishment from the Church, you engage in a emotional transaction when you follow Christian moral laws about sex.

Religion provides an escape from having to deal with the guilt of being a sexual deviant. Basically by being restrained by the church(and therefore God) you can experience a mixture of two emotions in exchange for peace of mind.

One emotion is the lack of guilt and anxiety from sexual 'evil', basically you are given the okay to fuck your husband/wife by God. There are two sacrifices here, the first is that you will give up the decision to mate with more than one partner; the second is the risk of extreme guilt should you engage in sex outside of marriage.

The Second emotion is a comfort in knowing that you are free to do everything with in the restrictions set by God. Basically you a free to do everything in your cage. Which in someways causes more happiness than being out of that cage with no direction.

>>6413794
Impressive trolling.

It isn't.

It is widely regarded as one of the least grievous sins.

>>6413794

>>6413807
>>6413818
Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all night ladies and gentlemen.

>>6413816
This
The biggest sin is undoubtedly the sin of pride

>>6413818
Are you implying most christians understand christianity? Where are you living anon, in Vatican?

>>6413840
If you don't write speeches for the Pope by the age of 25 (twenty-five) you work will NEVER be part of Western Canon.

>>6413840
But christianity is easy to understand: love thy neighbour, turn the other cheek, do unto other as you would be done by etc. All the later encrustations of doctrine are just superfluous gnosticism to keep priests in work.

>>6413840
Would it be safe to say non-practicing christians aren't really christians or am I being a scotsman right now?

>>6413861
And yet still most of christians don't seem to understand such simple ideas. How many people actually live like that and doesn't attend to church just to show off?

>>6413863
Only a bit. Most non-practicing are in church at least once or twice a year anyway, so they practice a little bit

>>6413868
I'd say they understand it fine, it is just too difficult to actually follow for most people.

>>6413438
Because like it or not good sexual behavior is one of the cement of civilisation
A proper religion, has to "canalize" behaviors by being very strict on subject considered as decadent

>>6413438
Because it's degenerate, can you not control yourself and not behave like a filthy animal.

22 yr old virgin here and proud.

>>6413894
uh... anon...

>>6413877
Not being a judgmental prick isn't hard to follow. Those people with signs "God hates fags" actually believe thats what christianity is about.

>>6413899
How do you feel fulfilling your debased animal desires?

>>6413818
>Trying to tip Zizek

Nigga you don't even know what way is up anymore.

>>6413923
Not him, but I feel pretty cool. There is nothing better on this planet anon.

>>6413883
"Good sexual behavior" is subjective, and to say it's the "cement of civilization" is a pretty big claim to make without proof.

>>6414010
>HURR DURR LE SUBJECTIVE

>>6413894
>>6413923
How does it feel fulfilling your le buzzword buzzword?

>>6414011
>if I put "hurr durr" in front of something I disagree with, that makes it wrong

>>6414014
Strong argument friend :^)

>>6414025
Yeah, pointing out that a person is just using extremely flexible words they see as having weight to justify their position is sometimes all that's necessary.

>>6414030
yeah well YOUR GAY

The only objective meaning of life is reproduction. By giving rules as to how to practice the activity enabling reproduction, Christianity presents itself as having a higher meaning than reproduction.

>>6414148
Just because we evolved through reproduction doesn't mean it gives life truly objective meaning.

>>6413438
same reason anything else is a sin, because it distracts you from and separates you from god

>>6414148
>Christianity presents itself as having a higher meaning than reproduction
no shit

>>6413438

Literally every society has a sense of sexual immorality. The modern west has the most permissive system of boundaries, but rape, incest, child molestation etc. are all considered evil and abominable.

It's common for moderns to look at their recent historical ancestors (that is, Christianity) and see them as oppressive and restrictive by comparison.

Well, no shit. Any society where bondage clubs, infinite porn catering to every fetish, polyamory galore and sexualized-everything is likely to see EVERY society as oppressive, backward, rigid and conservative.

Frankly, I think the whole new-Left sexual revolution has gone too far, and appears to be ideologically without brakes.

I have to agree with the fellow from Trainspotting (the movie, sorry), "In 1000 years there won't be any guys and no girls, just wankers."

>>6414188
sexual "revolution" has nothing to do with leftism

Because Christians are retarded.

>>6414194
This. It is a product of capitalism. Just another way to turn people into products.

>>6413438
It isnt the worst, but because of it's nature it's difficult to see that it is immoral and hard to direct to its end

>>6413620
Not that guy, but I'll give you a response. I live in the US and my family is Catholic. I can confirm that the term "Atheist" has a negative connotation here, similar to the word "socialism" which may also not have the same negative connotation where you live. My parents don't think my being an atheist is a bad thing, but I know to not let my grandparents know at family gatherings because it might upset them. It's mostly with older generations; the vast majority of young people don't think of atheists as being devoid of morals but elderly people certainly do. They wouldn't hate me for it, but it's not worth the ordeal. And with the baby boomers it's a pretty mixed bag.

After typing this I actually have a hard time believing there are places that are predominantly christian where no one would judge you in any way for being an atheist (believing is probably a bad word, I don't think you're lying, it's just hard for me to imagine). Although they're not like what they are here, there are Christian conservatives in Europe. Just out of curiosity, where do you live?

I have never once heard the term cultural marxist used IRL though. That is certainly a /pol/ term. And I've heard adults refer to men as women as an insult, but these are generally not very smart people (think high school sports coach types).

>>6414217
>>6414194

What kind of fantasy world do you live in? I'm getting tired of this notion that every bad thing in the world stems from "capitalism."

It's nothing but capitulation to a complex world with evils that are multifaceted and difficult to grasp.

a way to keep the population down in an age of no reliable contraception

>>6414344
I think one should realize that, in many ways, the left critiques industrial society, even if they do not realize it. Industrialization was a more revolutionizing force than agriculture. That it touches everything is not surprising.

Advanced capitalism, capitalist modes of production, all of these stem from the a(u)tomization of society.

>>6413438
crotch rot

Because sex is inherently special.

When you share it with >1 person, it isn't as special.

With that said, I think that it's important to have sexual compatibility with someone; waiting until marriage is a recipe for disaster IMO. I'd say that finding a balance between one-night-stands and abstinence until marriage is the best decision. Doing so preserves the special qualities of sex while allowing one to find a person that they're sexually compatible with.

Just my $0.02 anyway.

i ain't even christian and my views on sex are more conservative than some christians'.

Black Sheep. Six Sheep 3 sets of Brothers. also known as KFIR. life affirmers, enemy to all preachers of death and guilt and sin

>>6413438
>Why is sexual immorality considered so evil and abominable within Christianity?
it is not as long as you are inside a marriage
only hypocrite atheists believe your statement

The early Christian sects took the pneuma or the soul or the spirit (not reason or logos importantly) to be the divine principle that animated man to his central place within the cosmos. All else could partake in the divine in so far as they bore the marks of God's working hands, but only humans carried within them something divine, eternal, immaterial, and beyond the order of nature.

As such, all bodily drives and impulses (while understandably a part of man's partaking in the natural order) were seen as covering over what was more essentially man's identity with the divine. The monastics and other ascetic leaning Christians thus sought to remove themselves as much as possible from the heimarmene (fate, the order of the cosmos, the laws of nature, temporality) so as to cultivate a closeness of themselves within towards God. Later medieval adn modern Chrisitans supplanted the pneuma and the spirit for the logos or the mind/spirit and held the moderating, ordering aspect of the human to be divine.

The ascetic drive and its strike against sexuality stem from the stoics, the gnostic tradition (who were even more extreme in their devaluation of the natural order vs the divine), and early monastic, desert ascetics.

Because becoming a Christian is usually the result of being a beta NEET virgin

http://www.episcopalchurch.org/page/lgbt-church

When Sex is used for hedonist pursuits devoid of love, then it is sinful. You are using someone as an object, you cease to see them in the image of the Creator and therefore move in a way that separates yourself from him. When sex is united of love, devoid of objectification, then that's another story.

>>6414798
I don't know what you're saying but I'm intrigued

Explain?

>>6414793
>i ain't even christian and my views on sex are more conservative than some christians'.

Fucking r9k...

>>6414947

I ain't even Christian, I still went to church that year

>guess I just had to pretend that year

>>6414793
>inherently

Dropped

>>6413438
>Why is sexual immorality considered so evil and abominable within Christianity?
Le protip, it's considered evil and abominable in literally every single human society and religion ever.

>>6415109
[Citation needed]

>>6415109
Which is why the greeks had a goddess of love and a festival for holy prostitutes right?

>>6415625
>holy prostitutes
sacred prostitution is mostly a myth

>>6414991
>choosing to have sex with someone for pleasure and/or for procreation isn't special

Kek

>>6413438
>Why is sexual immorality considered so evil and abominable within Christianity?
>sexual immorality
>immorality
Maybe because it is, as you've described it, immoral?

>>6415635
Yeah, that's what they said about the firstborn being sacrificed to Moloch too.

Sacred prostitution was pretty common, at least among the Babylonians. They have specific words for it that are in their earliest texts.

As for the charge that Greek paganism was anti-sex, you can't really make a case for that, they had phallic festivals and the word "orgy" comes from "orgia", which is a mystery worth of Dionysus. I certainly don't think ancient Greeks felt that lustful thoughts were evil, either.

>>6416959
>mystery worship

>>6416959
This book goes into great detail about how most of those words are deliberately misconstrued. The whole thing was largely lies spread to discredit other groups, to emphasise the purity of the beliefs of the people spreading the lies. Then of course the lies are repeated unthinkingly and ad nauseum.

>>6417037
Is she actually learned in the language in question?

>>6417066
Yes she particularly criticises the Greek scholars that just repeat what they read in Herodotus and Pindar rather than identifying the topos of these myths or reading any texts from Mesopotamia

>>6416959
>greek
>"evil"
>because you worship a god with a certain action that =???= it's something you would want to do.
>greek's not wary of summons qua thoughts no matter what the supposed source.

>>6417086
I mean can she actually read the Mesopotamian texts which use these words, such as Gilgamesh, where a prominent character, Shamhat, is specifically said to be a temple prostitute. These things sort of corroborate Herodotus.

Pindar never talks about Babylonians, he's considered a source in relation to Greek sacred prostitution.

>>6417095
Thoughts as evil and dangerous to actions is mentioned philosophically, it's not a religious concept (although evil *plans* are(). You can't summon a God with thoughts...there are some you can call with silent prayers and curses, but that's different.

>>6413438
I think the real question is:
Why is sex considered so evil and abominable withing Christianity?

>>6417147
A similar case might be made for theˇsamhatu. This is a term which could also be used as a personal name (see note97), most famously in
the case ofˇ Samhat in theGilgameˇs Epic. Once again, as professional titles seldom function as personal names, it is quite unlikely that ˇsamhatu is a professional title, but rather a characteristic. Furthermore, as Assante
notes, in theGilgameˇs Epic the character is referred to as “ˇ Samhat the harimtu,” which would be rather redundant if both words meant “prostitute.”

It is a detailed study of all references to ancient sacred prostitution in the near east and europe. It is far too long to summarise all the arguments she brings up against the idea.

>>6413438
Even saying that it is "evil" is not necessarily right depending on who you mean. The only thing most theologians were agreed on is that there's something wrong going on. But they often disagreed about what that is. Some theorized that the act itself was actually fine, it was the lust for the act which was sinful, just as a righteous rebuke delivered in anger would be wrong even though the act itself is good. This was only one of many of the diverse opinions that have developed (perhaps the most convincing, I think). What we do know--and most of us can feel this, if we're honest with ourselves--is that something about sex is not quite noble.

>>6413497
>doesn't require abstinence.
I think this is correct. But we should remember Jerome's point: "Aliud est non peccare, aliud benefacere." It is one thing not to sin; it is another to do good.

>>6417242
Not doing the right thing is sinning.