/lit/ - Literature

I'm high as fuck right now nigga

What u wanna know

Inb4 Putin

Nietzsche just wasn't at the threshold where his mind is universally recognized, but I can almost assure you his willpower was advanced for his time. People like Nietzsche are evolutionary steps for man, and I can assure you the realm of politics will collide with philosophy as soon as the übermensch is found.

>>6402452
There are none; that's the point. The higher man is an ideal to aspire to, not an actual personality type that we can point to and say "Ah, yes, THERE is the übermensch!"

the higher man is the last man, of all time

>>6402479
No, he was definitely referring to a single person. That was the point of his philosophy, it was made for a lion of willpower

>>6402474
He's definitely one.

>>6402479
The 'overman' is the ideal, but there are always higher and lower men.

>>6402479
>ideal

jesus

Probably some dude who just stays in his home and does important shit
Like me

What is good? All that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself. What is bad? All that is born of weakness. What is happiness? The feeling that power is growing, that resistance is overcome.

Nietzsche would probably admire genius megalomaniacs because he was one.

>>6402494
I think he means idealist as in German idealism there.

"And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment."

Zarathustra is a prophet. He proclaims the coming of the Overman.

The Overman is simultaneously exemplified in a singular man at a point in time but also represents a paradigm shift which involves mankind.

The Overman will re-evaluate all values and end the seemingly endless era of nihilism. He will chart a course towards an affirmation of life that does not involve 'decadence'. This is truly a new mode of Becoming. He has mastery over his Will, one that is completely life-affirming and 'strong'.

He has accepted and truly lives amor fati. And in combination with eternal return, he will see truly accept what is and therefore unleash the potential to truly overcome that.
Much like the last messiah zapffe talks about:
"the man who, as the first of all, has dared strip his soul naked and submit it alive to the outmost thought of the lineage, the very idea of doom. A man who has fathomed life and its cosmic ground, and whose pain is the Earth's collective pain."

He will overcome the postmodern era. The post-modern era does not occur *after* the modern, but it is contained within it. The modern comes after essentially the enlightenment project (which has arguably failed). There is nothing after the modern period because post-modern stipulates that chronological periods or a 'linear' dialectic of history is untenable.

In short: he will collapse the notion of post-modern.

A perspective of truth of the shortest shadow (i.e. One turns to Two). Totalizing discourses of representation, truth, and subjectivity
to become internally fractured. A third option revealed from the difference and additions of all 'perspectives'. He will arrive at 'Truth', but just not in the form the system builders think of it as.

He will walk the tightrope and not be distracted by the jester... what is waiting on the other side is a new breed of man.
Only reason I know any of this is because I am the incomplete prototype (with this being the marketplace).
I'm sure the actual Overman will truly be the Blonde Beast.

Elliot Rodgers.

>A man who has fathomed life and its cosmic ground, and whose pain is the Earth's collective pain.

So, the average new age hippy?

Adolf Hitler

Nietzsche's concept of 'higher' is pretty arbitrary and vague and he contradicts himself a lot. That's because placing individuals on a spectrum of height while you're barely capable of fleshing out a consistent system to do so and failing to write your magnum opus that's supposed to introduce the new values is so without justification that he might as well have been saying 'guys i like are hella high, guys i don't like ain't '.

DFW

Anthony "Alex "icycalm" Kierkegaard" Zirbas

Juicy J

>>6402452
George Zimmerman.

>>6402478
It's the 21st century moron, eugenics isn't a thing anymore.

me

>>6402452
Mike Brown

>>6402494
>>6402494

How did you come to the conclusion that "higher man is an ideal to aspire to"? A few lines above your cutoff Nietzsche describes his "average experience...originality" as "the first utterance of a new range of experiences." He speaks to his eternal recurrence when he writes of "events which lie entirely outside of the possibility of a frequent or rare experience". His personal experience is at once both average and entirely unique. Average in the sense that each person's experience is this way and unique is the sense that each person is entirely different from the next, a separate entity. He's against idealism!

Zarathustra is a model of Nietzsche's clash with idealism. Z is the antithesis of the values upheld by ""modern" men...good men...christians and other nihilisits". "Idealistic" is in quotes, so Nietzsche doesn't really mean that Z is to be taken as an ideal in terms of value, as being valuable to be, but as a blueprint for the individual (a descriptive process). Further, he calls people "dolts"

>>meaning you

who interprets ideal type as Darwinistic, as a highly esteemed, yet unachievable goal, a 'peak of evolution' so to speak.

>>6403583

>>thinks Nietzsche wanted non-existent values

read about reevaluation of value.

>>6402563

hasn't read a lick of Nietzsche.

>>a single overman will re-evaluate value and end era of nihilism
>>Nietzsche being against self-identity, equality, preservation of a species.

The "Overman",
if I am not mistaken,
has exerted all possible powers as opposed to not.
One is an "Overman" with in a certain period of time, say between now and death,
but only if one has exerted all powers possible, as opposed to not.

>>6403731
>Zarathustra is a model of Nietzsche's clash with idealism.
you mean Stirner's nihilism

>>6403756
I tried but he didn't actually wrote the work he announced multiple times and said was going to change everything.

As much as I like him, Freddy didn't deliver. And he couldn't.

>>6403851
Zarathustra has all you need. Will To Power was just going to be further exegesis.

>>6403781
Nietzsche is objectively against equality, thinks the ego does not exist, and says that a better form of the human should be favored over the human.

>>6402452
you wouldnt know their name

>>6403851
Yeah he did mate. He was only going to write a book on life-promoting values for people who didn't already understand what he meant by life-promoting. But if you aren't an abject pleb this should make complete sense to you after a thorough reading of Zarathustra.

All of his values are earthly and realistic, none of it has a speck of metaphysics, so there's no reason to think he had to "deliver".

>>6403865
what are you trying to say? Because you pretty much repeated what I wrote

>>6402452
Meg White

>>6403878
what are his values?

>>6403884
Your previous post's format of a statement in front of a meme arrow implied that that statement is wrong.

>>6403860
>>6403878
>so there's no reason to think he had to "deliver".
Except that he did think himself he had to, but failed. You do realise Nietzsche championing TSZ is the result of him not being able to deliver on his promises?

His project fell apart. Then he came out with The Antichrist, Twilight of the Idols and Ecce Homo in a sort of half arsed attempt to take another direction and publishing the scraps separately. But he failed, and he knew he failed, and in a desperate attempt he decided to claim TSZ his magnum opus.

He was so confident he could get beyond nihilism, but he really couldn't, so that book of bad poetry was the best "yes saying" thing he had to offer in retrospect. But he didn't anticipate it until he realised he was defeated.

>>6403895

From The Antichrist, chapter two:

What is good? Everything that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself.

What is bad? Everything that is born of weakness.

What is happiness? The feeling that power is growing, that resistance is overcome.

Not contentedness but more power; not peace but war; not virtue but fitness (Renaissance virtue, virtu, virtue free from moralic acid).

The weak and ill-constituted shall perish: first principle of our love of man. And they shall even be given every possible assistance.

What is more harmful than any vice? Active pity for all the failures and all the weak: Christianity...


Realize that he is speaking of spiritual strength also, possibly more so, than physical strength, as shown in later sections of this book (57).

>>6403887
fucking bitch

>>6402479
>There are none; that's the point

Ultimately, Nietzsche was wrong in his prediction anyway, the West and the world in general is getting more debauched and nihilistic for everyday that passes.

>>6403912
He didn't create a system as he intended but the scraps were already there in Gay Science. The values of this world are extremely clear, just read the Greeks before Plato, Machiavelli, things like that. Nietzsche just wanted to collect all of these vital, instinct-friendly values and make them into an ethical code, but couldn't because he fucking died. Doesn't mean he failed to conquer nihilism.

>>6403636

>>6403931
>he couldn't
>but he didn't fail

Interesting. You're just toning down his boasting and expectations to make him see like less of a failure though. We're talking about Friedrich "people will swear oaths in my name one day, I will single handedly change the world, I am dynamite, my upcoming masterpiece will flip everything upside down" Nietzsche here.

He was announcing something truly mindblowing, not just some 48 laws of power "here's a collection of what cool lads said".

Nietzsche failed, not merely because he died, but because he wasn't ever able to deliver in the first place. Because no one is. He was just megalomaniac enough to delude himself in thinking he could.

>>6403913
So any value described to "heighten the feeling of power in a man, the will to power, power itself". is good, and any value that "is born of weakness" is bad.

The value itself isn't important in relation to how it affects one.

Kanye

Warren Buffett

>>6403955
pretty worthless interpretation

>>6403955
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_and_reception_of_Friedrich_Nietzsche

>mfw neetska was a central to the minds of all all the factions of the world wars
>Hitler gave Mussolini a collection of Nietzsche's works for his birthday
>Hitler and the nazies stole his terminology
>U.S. leaders read him
>Trotsky read him
>tfw when he flipped everything upside down, was dynamite, changed the world, and will continue to change the world without having completed the Transvaluation

sure some failure he's got goin on there

>>6403992
It is impossible to ignore one of the most influential philosopher who ever existed though, just saying, even if you just have a fleeting interest in philosophy.

>>6403636
>tfw he clones himself and takes over the world

>>6403989
Sounds like you haven't read him or are still under his spell.

>>6403992
>he failed to do what he wanted, but he did some other things, so he didn't fail

He would have been disappointed as fuck with the type of influence he had. The Nazis adopting him would have broken his heart.

any other decent answers op's question?
people like jesus, marcus aurelius, napoleon, arnold schwarzenegger

>>6404029
Arnie is a pretty good example.

>>6404013
Nietzsche didn't fail; rather, mankind failed Nietzsche. For now.

Why I am A Destiny seems to suggest Nietzsche would be pretty happy with the breaking apart of Europe with his shit though

>>6404029
Ali, Walt Disney, LBJ, Nixon, Bush and relate co., etc.

>>6404013
There just hasn't been enough time, anon.

>>6404049
>>6404064
The Last Man has won, lads.

>>6404079
>The Last Man has won, lads.

Indeed.

>>6403929
Didn't he say something about higher and higher men coming from lower and lower populations?

>>6404040
seriously though, he might seem like a joke to the dull liberal arts students on this board but he can't be ignored in this subject
>born into a poor family in a small austrian village
>becomes the most idolized bodybuilder ever and wins mr. universe at 20
>becomes the most iconic action movie star ever
>becomes the governor of california
>marries and has children with a kennedy
he has probably banged a hundred thousand 18 year olds too

>>6404013
>The Nazis adopting him would have broken his heart.

Nietzsche had a very obvious appreciation for military might

He would've loved Hitler

>>6404116
he had a very obvious appreciation for breathing as well

None because no one ever 'understands' Nietzsche.

>>6404105
Being so desperate for fame and the acknowledgement of others is a clear sign of slave morality, though.

>>6404079
>blinks
kek

A very sad shame.

>>6404003
kanye west
kevin barnes
oprah winfrey

cant really think of any others off the type of my head. basically they are a creative type who emphasizes living-in-the-moment versus living-for-an-afterlife

as much as i like them, and insofar as i entertain the idea of there being any actual ubermensch, i don't think we have seen one yet, nor has there been or will be since nietzsche's writing. i don't believe that a literal ubermensch was someone we might haee known or will ever know. he is like the "reasonable man" in legal discourse.

nietzsche is talking about something beyond fine arts. the people i have listed and might dwell on political issues, but do not ultimately transcend them. if we ever do actually see someone who transcends both politics and fine arts in their analysis and creative output, they would probably be labeled as the anitchrist

>>6404125
And you're saying arnie was like that?

>>6404131
He described all bodybuilders as children hiding behind armor.

I only recently started reading Nietzsche and I feel like it's breaking my brain, I can't deal with the notion that kindness, brotherhood etc. are all just weakness in disguise.

Has there been any counter to him or is he truly the final boss?

>>6404129
Ubermensch sounds like Buddha.

>>6404129
Is this bait? why would some civil rights rabble have anything to do with Caesar and Goethe?

>>6404135
Well, if /fit/ is anything to go by...

Probably Carl Jung

>>6404136
Itll break your brain until you realize that much more "moral" and much less egoistic than you think, and is basically interested in Roman type morality instead of Christian.

And he is the final boss. everyone that responded to him just tried to ensnare him back into metaphysical bullshit and leftist nonsense

>>6404136
>can't deal with the notion that kindness [... ] are all just weakness in disguise
I'm p. sure that doesn't go for all forms of generosity

>>6402478
If his will power was advanced, why was he so pathetic and his philosophy so pleb?

>>6404129
>kanye west
>kevin barnes
>oprah winfrey

>>6404105
Nietzsche's idea of the Übermensch and the American Dream are very different things. Nietzsche would have probably considered him a filthy pleb. Nietzsche also hated America and hard work and politicians.

>>6404116
Nietzsche hated anti-semitism and nationalism. He hated Germany. He broke contact with his sister for marrying a proto-nazi and he was terrified that right wing people liked and started referring to his work in their political pamphlets. He said he would have to stop Zarathustra being associated with that type of people at all cost. As far as military might goes, he also shitted on the Prussians and the German Empire. He gave up his German nationality. He looked down on statesmen and politicians.

>>6404116
>Nietzsche had a very obvious appreciation for military might

He really didn't. You're probably talking about Julius Evola.

>>6404129
lol

>>6404136
It's important to note that with N. it's more about the 'why' than the 'what.' So kindness and brotherhood aren't necessarily bad, but when you extend them to shit like meekness and egalitarianism is when you go wrong.

In fact kindness and brotherhood can be very good.

>>6404174
>Nietzsche also hated America
he did?

>>6404136
>notion that kindness, brotherhood etc. are all just weakness in disguise.

It isn't. You just need to realize that Nietzsche was extremely hostile towards Christianity, and it's preachings.

Many of his criticisms of the Church are valid, and his moral skepticism isn't unfounded, but he clearly has a psychological gripe with things that can be construed as positive emotions among human beings.

>>6404191
Basically considered them spiritually bankrupt merchant scum who poison the world with their pleb values.

terrence malick is the ubermensch

>>6404201
>Basically considered them spiritually bankrupt merchant scum who poison the world with their pleb values.

As he considered most people.

>>6403691

>Being so thick you can't differentiate between a philosophical metaphor and pseudo-science consigned to the dark ages (thankfully).

Kanye West

>>6404233
i wish 15 year olds would stop posting

>>6404201
so jews basically

>>6404129
4/10

>>6404140
>any of those people
>civil rights rabble

not sure how you came to this conclusion. al sharpton is civil rights babble. these people are artists foremost. civil rights are only touched on tangentially, if at all.

>caesar and goethe

ceasar a political revolutionary, goethe a literary revolutionary. its just like i said, the people i listed lack the political aspect. qadaffi would be the closest in terms of political transcendence, since he aspired to make africa "the united nations of africa" or some such thing, but he wasn't an artist, which was very important for nietzsche (he identified wagner as an example of ubermensch). now that i think of it, mao zedong was probably the latest, since he had command of both the aesthetic and political.

>>6404172
>>6404183
>>6404261
good meme replies, you sure showed me

Honestly Kanye could be one.

>>6404219
Yes, but he saw America as an exemplification of it.

>>6404257
He was very critical of Judaism as a religion/ideology, but he held many ethnic Jews in high regard and was a passionate anti-anti-semitist.

In one of his few eugenic remarks concerning superior breeding he even suggested mixing Jews with Europeans.

>>6404287
lol

>>6404313
How? The 'higher man' requires more than just making art and being yourself. Where's the life-affirmation? The creativity of value-creating? The artistic ecstasy? The naturalistic pantheism? How does Kanye even compare to, say, Beethoven or Scriabin in these regards?

And in fact I'd even say no popular artist (popular in the popular/art music sense, not popular/obscure) could be considered a 'higher man.' see: Adorno.

>>6404427
>lol

epic

>>6404129
Some good quality bait here.

>>6404194
Actually, anyone who has a good understanding on christianity and it's philosophy can note that Nietzsche's values aren't too far from christianity, in reality. Of course, it's not as if his philosophy is 100% compatible with christianism, but a good portion of his work is product of misunderstandments and mistakes.

He was surrounded by a bunch of hypocrites who basically preached "Fuck everybody who doesn't follow christianity, life sucks, everybody should just sit down and wait for kingdom come" and we all know Nietzsche's greatest enemy was nihilism.

>>6404439
>epic

lol

The overman is not a certain breed of man that is superior to all others, that's one of the things the Nazis misinterpreted about Nietzsche. To be an overman one has to come up with their own ideas about morality and philosophy and live their life as close to their ideas as possible.

Nietzsche encouraged his readers to disagree with him and come to their own conclusions, unlike almost every other philosopher of his time. This is probably why Nietzsche gets misinterpreted so often.

what do you guys think of his eternal return theory, its been depressing the fuck out of me ever since i read about him. i cant stop thinking about it.

>>6405851
Every time you do some thing,
you may fall in to the trap of continuing said habit eternally in endless time.

>>6405851
i never read nietzsche until i smoked DMT because DMT taught me the eternal recurrence.

i came to terms with it, then realized it was horseshit.

it isnt a reality, only a thing to come to terms with to become emotionally psychologically (and spiritually imo) stronger

>>6405851
it sounds like a good rule to live by
as for the actual occurrence of such a thing it sounds doubtful and even if it is true two identical lives might as well be one

>>6405851
Nietzsche's whole point, was that if you could come to terms with such a thing, it was the truly life-affirming philosophy

>>6404136

S T I R N E R
T
I
R
N
E
R

>>6405851
>tfw I just read it
Good, It's not like I wanted to feel good or anything... Ever.

This man right here.

>>6406119
He's more like a comic relief boss who gets destroyed by a bigger stage boss called "Marx".

That makes me think.. Philosophy RPG when?

>>6406141
go back to dead karl

>>6406142
Marx is immortal. You can't kill his army of "marxists", they're too many and too powerful.

>the RPG could be about Marx being some evil wizard with a big ass army
hhmmm...

>>6406141
That is a meme that has been spread on this board.
The true joke is that Marx has had such influence,
when his writings are basically emotional versions of exactly what Stirner was refuting in Feuerbach's writings.
The "Human" is non existent,
unlike the "Individual" non-definable which actually has an effect on some thing.
What is the actual point from which things are altered or were in a communist country?
The lump which is "Human" or the "Individual" Stalin/ Mao?

>>6402478
>I can almost assure you
can you?
>his willpower was advanced for his time
he was a sickly runt who was pissed at a world that didn't give him much of a chance to be happy. he made some insightful commentary on society and the human condition, but he wasn't a fucking prophet
>the realm of politics will collide with philosophy as soon as the übermensch is found
i don't find pleasure in breaking this to you; it's my responsibility to bring you in on this. there is philosophy in politics.

>>6403955
>>Interesting. You're just toning down his boasting and expectations to make him see like less of a failure though. We're talking about Friedrich "people will swear oaths in my name one day, I will single handedly change the world, I am dynamite, my upcoming masterpiece will flip everything upside down" Nietzsche here.
>
>He was announcing something truly mindblowing, not just some 48 laws of power "here's a collection of what cool lads said".
>
>Nietzsche failed, not merely because he died, but because he wasn't ever able to deliver in the first place. Because no one is. He was just megalomaniac enough to delude himself in thinking he could.
these dubs are gold, thank god an anon is based on N.

it is always the same thing, as soon as subject becomes trendy, most of the followers will not recognize the flaws on their new deity.

>>6406141
Oh boy, here we go...

>>6402539
as a genius megalomaniacs i can tell you we mostly fight eachother in duals.

Ubermensch doesn't mean someone that is really strong or powerful. Nietzsche says the type of person he's talking about actually has to be protected. So clearly not Putin. Ubermensch is just someone that is (psychologically) strong enough to bear reality without falsifying it and, also, has the ability to create.

Also, all the 'megalomaniac' stuff Nietzsche wrote is clearly ironic. The whole of Ecce Homo is a big joke and Nietzsche is much more toned down in his private writings.

>>6406129

Just read this

http://myweb.lmu.edu/tshanahan/Nietzsche-Eternal_Recurrence.html

I don't get it. Can you explain this to me with Greeny memey arrows?

>>6402452
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, if we discount his paranoia

>>6402466
underrated post

>>6406670
back to /pol/

>>6406715
never went there. What does he have to do with /pol/ anyway? wouldn't /pol/ hate him because he is a Muslim?

I don't see how its possible. I mean people could get close but to actually have all the characteristics he described? The only time ive seen it is in Fiction. Howard Roark, John Galt, Leto 2 from god emperor of dune. For instance suffering without bitterness or resentment? How the fuck do you do that?

I am the overman. Questions?

>>6406927
Is matter born of mind?

>>6406933
lol what is this? Ask me a real question.

>>6406891
A staple of transcendentalist philosophers is to describe a perfect being as having contradictory traits. They seem to define man as being bound by the world of human perception which is limited by it's inability to hold two contradicting pieces of information as true. In order to go beyond being a man then you need to go beyond the contradictory nature of your existence and become a Knight of Faith/Overman/Egoist. They all use a sort of Hegelian idea that human beings are progressing toward a higher state of being, but furnish no proof that this is the case. Pretty much it's all just fancy self-help that allows you to sneer at plebs who are a Last Man/Involuntary Egoist, or in the case of Kierkegaard a person who lives, "dejectedly in worldly sorrow and joy". People have used these guys to justify how great they are and how shitty the world is. Admittedly a lot of philosophy is no different from them, but they're one of the more blatant cases of creating justification for disdaining plebs and considering yourself patrician.

Philosophy is just a tool of elitists! I'm not that bothered by it as all things are just tools to distinguish your own identity from the identity of others.

>>6406972
yeah lol philosophers are dumb lol

>>6406938
If someone fasts long enough to stop pooping, doesn't that disprove the axiom "everybody poops"?

>>6406972
This is the dumbest shit I have seen all day

>>6406997
>>6407024
I was considering condensing it to

Philosophy is just
>Muh feels

>>6407039
`Tis not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger.

>>6406097
>>6406085
>>6406086
I guess i should just not take it so literally then

Any other answer is wrong.

>>6406147

Marx was clealry affected by Stirner though, he completely dropped humanist rhetoric in the Manifesto and the Kapital.

>>6406972
>all things are just tools to distinguish your own identity from the identity of others.

Straight from the 48 Laws of Power-laced virgin handbook.

>>6403887
knock knock
who's that?
Meg White's most complex drum beat

>>6406938
It is from Berkeley,
a philosopher who influenced Schopenhauer,
who in turn influenced Nietzsche,
whom the thread is referring to.

>>6402452
You're jumping ahead of so many other questions. And every answer in this thread is presupposing a very specific yet unspoken interpretation.

>>6406137
The joker is close to ubermensch than bane.