/lit/ - Literature

>>6356898
what a slag

>>6356898
>/lit/ - Serious questions, serious answers

Doesn't the whole scenario paint god out to be a real fucking weirdo?

>>6356898
If God really loved us he wouldn't have made the snake

>>6356969
Or the tree. It's a childish and completely fruitcase origin myth.

Sage and ignore, threads like this please.

>>6356898
they dont eat meat until post-apple

>>6357048
Tree was necessary snake wasn't

>what is allegory

I guarantee that after they bit out of the apple Eve ate the snake.

>>6357114
How is a "Tree of Knowledge" necessary?

You're eating the snake right now. The long and winding path of your life.

>>6356898
This is Adam and Eve we're talking about, not Adam and Bear: Born Survivor.

"One thing you can do, if you're stuck in heaven, with no protein source at all, is actually eat a fresh talking snake."

And then a voice over as he bites into it, telling you which talking snakes are good to eat, which will kill you if you eat them, and which will piss god off if you eat them.

>>6356898
adam did eat the snake and it became the penis

This is an example of the stupid and quasi-contradictory idea of an omnipotent, omniscient God. He created everything and controls everything so he not only KNEW what would happen by creating the snake, the fruit and the tree of knowledge, but he GUIDED the snake to tempt Eve and then Eve to tempt Adam, etc. Even if you disagree that God guided it all and that he gave everyone/-thing free will and that they knowingly disobeyed, that still doesn't account for the fact that God KNEW it would happen and could have prevented it. God is practically playing chess with himself. What a crashing bore.

>>6357201
Lost in translation.

God doesn't speak English. He speaks in apple.

>>6356961
EUPHORIC FEDORA EUPHORIC FEDORA FEDORA

>>6356961
God made man in his own image. You're a real fucking weirdo, anon!

>>6357201
>implying they are actual people in a garden as supposed to ontological metaphors

>>6357201
So are my chinese cartoons where God is truly in charge of everything and merely trolls people into thinking they have a choice, better than the bible?

>>6357235
1. Tell that to literalists, of whom there are plenty.
2. Thou shalt not pick and choose. If that fundamental, foundational part can be merely metaphorical then the entire Bible can be metaphorical, too. Including God himself.

>>6357201
you forgot omnibenevolent, without the existence of evil that term is meaningless

>>6357244
What a horrible metaphor. Jesus!

>>6357243
Yes, as long as you admit that, as they're your Chinese cartoons, they're fictional, and shouldn't be the bedrock of anyone's life.

>>6357247
>omnibenevolent
>creates Hell and sends people there
I think not, champ.

>>6357253
>thinking God sends people to Hell
Come on, guys. This is basic stuff.

>>6357253
if there wasn't a hell good wouldn't exist

>>6357211
If I eat multiple apples every day is there a chance of me becoming a prophet?

>>6356898
what was the secret knowledge they learned? that they're naked?

>>6357260
>hurr Hell is a natural consequence of sin
>God has no say in the system He set up

>>6357262
That's utter shite, pal.

>>6357266
>tree of knowledge of good and evil
>what did they learn, that they're naked?

u srs?

>>6357263
The chance is so small, you'll most likely end up as a granny smith before you become a prophet, and you won't have any time to enjoy eating forbidden fruit and snakes.

It's a lot easier to just become a politician, anon.

>>6357289
Another stupid thing about genesis is how it implies that people knowingly commit evil. As though people don't exist who commit evil while thinking it's the right thing.

Fruit from the tree of knowledge = Theory of Everything that unifies quantum mechanics with general relativity

Adam = Liberal arts majors
Eve = STEM majors
Garden of Eden = social life
Snake = curiosity

>>6356898
who the fuck eat snakes? that'd be kinda nasty

>>6357174
I'm fucking done.

the story is a mesopotamian parable about the loss of innocence and the often comedic interactions between lackadaisical or whimsical gods and usually unfortunate/toiling/always-getting-fucked-over humans

the original story would probably have been implicitly understood in this way, with god "leaving" his supposedly perfect creation of man in a paradise, and ALL they have to do is not unleash evil into the world and descend from a state of childlike innocence, but they do because lol humans always getting fucked over, and god is genuinely like OH DARN because mesopotamian parables don't often include 600 page appendices on the precise theology and philosophy of divine omniscience

it's hebrew religion that works it into the teleological framework of god's plan being perfect and god being perfect (and perfectly serious), and it's much much later roman and medieval philosophy that tries to exegetically work out every single verse in the bible. most of these exegeses are lost forever because no one cares about obviously quaint and antiquated 11th century exegesis of "EVE'S A CUNT INNIT", the ones that still sorta-kinda make sense at least under minimal scrutiny survive to modern day

by no means is there an authoritative meaning to the story and it's stupid to get neo-atheist buttmad about inconsistency when it's a series of totally different civilisations literally beginning with the very first one trying to hammer its meaning into shape to fit vastly different contexts

also this >>6357120

>>6357174
And the snake then ate some of Eve's privates.

Meaning The Devil fucked one of your great grand mothers.

>>6357316

Some folks in the southern USA eat rattlesnakes.

>>6357341
The Egyptian peoples predated the jews by centuries, oh man. Not to mention the Assyrians, etc. etc....

>>6357346
No. Eve didn't have anything before the snake tore her one. The snake plunged into Eve, and there was gore everywhere, and when it pulled out, Eve had the universe's first vagina, and the Catholic method of birth control was invented.

That's also where the phrase "tear a new one" originates. It's right there in the bible, trust me.

>>6357165
The snake is eating me, man.

>>6357359
>trust me.
I would die for you.

What's the best version of the Bible? I asked my local church and they said King James, and I know enough to know that can't be right.

>>6357374
NRSV. King James and New King James is really only used by fundamentalist churches who want to make a point of rejecting modern biblical scholarship, as nice as the language is.

>>6357374
The one with the alternative ending, where Jesus wipes out the Romans with lasers from his fingertips and then ascends straight to Heaven on a skateboard.

>>6357374
The Penguin short story version.

>>6357374
There is no best version, every one has someone's personal bullshit injected into it in one way or another

>KJV
>Bbbbut the translators didn't want to disrupt the status quo and/or piss off the king! Also new archeology!
>NIV
>Bbbbut muh readability over literal accuracy! Muh gays! (This will be a complaint no matter what version you choose)
>Any American version
>Bbbbut muh poisonous Protestant pandering!

It just keeps on going.

Honestly the only way to be safe is to learn the language of the earliest extant copies

>>6357374
The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures

>Reading Scripture in a manner not approved by the Vatican

>>6357411
>Reading anything whatsoever based on interest and not the molding of you into the ant-ball.

Because it would have bitten them. They didn't have any antivenom.

And why do paintings always make the snake look snake-like? Wasn't it supposed to have legs at that point and God cursed it to slither on the ground as punishment?

>>6357428
It "was a metaphor".

>>6357431
More like a BETAPHOR. Amiright?

>>6357438
lol, you're right XD

SERIOUS question here, how are Adam & Eve morally reprehensible for the Original Sin if they didn't have the concept of crime and punishment? How are they expected to decide between God and a random fucking snake without the knowledge we or God had?

>>6357472
You mean, how were they to understand that it would be "wrong" to eat the fruit if they needed the fruit FIRST to be able to know that it would be wrong?

>>6357169

Wan thing ya can doo, if ya stuck een 'evvin with no prawtein sawce at all, is ta eat a noice juicy frash talkin snake if ya wanna suh vive and be sick cunt m8

>>6357480
>You mean, how were they to understand that it would be "wrong" to eat the fruit if they needed the fruit FIRST to be able to know that it would be wrong?
Yes, exactly.

>>6357492
It probably has something to do with the desirability, within Christianity, for blind obedience to God. God told them not to do it so that should have been enough, whether they understood the whys and wherefores or not. It's one of the many anti-intellectual strains within Christianity (and religion in general): don't think for yourself, let God (or God's clergy) do your thinking for you. Obey, obey, obey.

Good question, OP. I often wonder the same thing.

I'd also like to know how their kids had kids. Isn't incest bad or something?

>>6357514
The earliest humans (if we're assuming they were created by God) had perfect genes so inbreeding wasn't harmful. Sin corrupted these genes as time went on.

>>6357522
Oh wow scientific explanations for christianity are the very worse. Also, even if I may accept your cancerous point, what about Noah? His family must have been corrupted by the generations already, yet everyone is his descendant, right?

Ha! Satan was all like "Apple or GTFO" because eve was already showing tits.

>>>/ck/

>>6357486
Adam didn't talk like that.

>>6357514
>I'd also like to know how their kids had kids. Isn't incest bad or something?
Read the Bible carefully. They say it in plain text that after being chased away from Eden they settled with a human community living next to Eden. ("East of Eden" is a reference to that.)

The implications are twofold:

a) Eden is a literal garden on literal Planet Earth
b) Presumably the humans living outside the garden were genetically compatible with humans but mentally/psychologically apelike. We are thus all, in effect, part ape, according to the Bible.

>>6356898
That would've been a rather disappointing story.

As a Scientologist, I urge you to take an auditing session and get a copy of Dianetics from your local library. It's a much healthier and beautiful lifestyle, and its lore is richer.

The Bible is absolute gobbledygook.

>>6357604
Scientology in 2015

TOPKEK

Hail xenu, you delusional failure of a human. L Ron Hubbard was a child fucker and a fraud

>>6357644
>tfw you will never sail the world on a follower-funded yahct avoiding arrest while fucking a bevy of hot, young concubines

>>6357604
why does the church of scientology use christian symbols?

>>6357652
> implying scientologists aren't all child-molesting homosexuals

>>6357644
>L Ron Hubbard was a child fucker and a fraud

All of this libelous nonsense has long been discredited. It's propaganda spread by ex-members of the Church who want to earn a paycheck.

Also, L. Ron Hubbard's life shouldn't be taken literally, as you obviously are. It should be taken metaphorically.

And no, we do not worship Xenu. All of that stuff is utter nonsense, disinformation.,

>>6357656
Are you familiar with any cult leaders apart from Hubbard? Child-fucking and fraud are givens when leading a cult.

>>6357664
>L. Ron Hubbard's life shouldn't be taken literally, as you obviously are. It should be taken metaphorically.
This only works with religions founded thousands of years ago.

>>6357673
Wrong.

>>6357656
Homosexuality is strictly forbidden in the Church. It's a mental illness and must be got rid of by auditing sessions.

>>6357664
>Also, L. Ron Hubbard's life shouldn't be taken literally, as you obviously are. It should be taken metaphorically.

What is the metaphor behind Hubbard hunting submarines that simply did not exist while commanding a submarine, and then later lying hat he sunk a Japanese submarine?

>>6357136
It isn't called Tree of Knowledge you pleb. It's tree of knowing good and evil.

>>6357673

No, wrong. Sorry you're such a short minded idiot who can only push over strawmen, but Dianetics is supposed to be seen as a poetic metaphor about modern man and his inability to adapt to a mind crushing society that is obsessed with materialism

>>6357710
If you put your mind to it, you can achieve anything.

>>6357719
>modern man and his inability to adapt to a mind crushing society that is obsessed with materialism

There is a false dichotomy here; 'society' is an empty abstraction with no being in reality, everything in terms of consumerism and desire that you speak of has its source in the individual 'modern' man.

>>6357710

The submarines are obviously the hidden desires that he chased, the hidden desires we all have. That's what the Sea Org is a metaphor for, Scientology is the ship that sails over troubled waters (our troubled modern life) and tries to cross them, always aware of the submarines below the surface (our hidden, subconscious desires).

Don't you know anything? How close minded of you

>>6357734
Go be an SP somewhere else.

I don't understand. If God is the first cause and therefore the creator of everything, isn't he also responsible for sin and all evil we see in the world?

>>6357734

Yeah, well, you're only saying that because society has clouded your mind with secret desires, or, as we in the Church call them, submarines.

Then again, you can't even distinguish between the fundamentalist literalist Scientoligists, and us moderate Scientologists, who take Dianetics as a metaphor

>>6357719
>inability to adapt to a mind crushing society that is obsessed with materialism
>founded a religion for the sole purpose of accumulating lots of money

>>6357222
PERSON WHO ONLY TALKS IN MEMES PERSON WHO ONLY TALKS IN MEMES MEMES

>>6357752
>because society has clouded your mind with secret desires

Top kek, I know that you really want to believe there is some kind of 'Other' out there with his hands on the wheels of your life, but you can't project your Dad unto the rest of us.

>>6357048
Why are you trying to ignore that Christianity is as central to western thought as Greek?

>>6357757

Again, that's just your strawman and a well-known media distortion, not the real thing.

>>6357719
Topperkek. If not for badgering the IRS into giving them tax exempt status the meterialistic scientologists would have gone under. Muscavage is a pederast and Hubbards work makes Earnest Cline look like H G Wells.

>>6357169

VITAMINS
I
T
A
M
I
N
S

>>6357778
What are you even saying?

L. Ron Hubbard's Dianetics is not only the most revolutionary spiritual work ever created, it is also a magnificent literary achievement, superbly written. As to the IRS thing, tax exempt status is the right of every religion. Is it really so malicious on the part of the CoS to ask for the government to respect its rights?

Look. Just go to your local CoS branch and take a free session. It'll help you, I promise. And after that, you can start working on your engrams and so on.

>>6357719
And that has nothing to do with taking his life "as a metaphor."
Are you legitimately retarded?

>>6357778

Look, are you just going endlessly hurl insults at me and misrepresent me?

It's totally obvious that all of that was to show the modern obsession with money and materialism. The fact that you fell for it proves Hubbard's point, that when it comes to money and materialism, you're all ears, but when it comes to whatever makes us really happen, like companionship, you gloss over it.

Don't you think that Hubbard had a good idea about what he was doing? Of course Scientology looks like a corrupt money making pyramid scheme, that's the whole point. Scientology shows our modern society for what it is, an empty dream. The only thing you're doing by criticizing it is projecting your anger of the modern world outwards, when in fact "Scientology" should be seen as a mirror for the emptiness of modern life.

Then again, like I said before, you're kicking against a literalist strawman, which doesn't exist. Probably because you don't want to face up to the emptiness of modern society. Philosophical scientology (which is radically different from fundamentalist "Scientology") has shown your empty society for what it is, and you just don't like it. Keep consuming, slave, happiness® is right around the corner!

What the fuck is up with the CoS shills in this thread?

>people are actually falling for the bait
oh my god

>>6357804
It has everything to do with his life being a metaphor.

Don't tell me you're one of those unintelligent who takes something that's obviously metaphorical literally.

>>6357737
I know you're trolling, but your interpretation makes only sense if Hubbard wouldn't have lied about the submarines later

>>6357374
DOUAY RHEIMS

>>6357819

Again, his lying was intentional, to show the endless desires of modern society to paint a better picture of ourselves

Don't you people understand anything?

>>6357672
That is frighteningly true.

>>6357805
Self actualized, motherfucker.
Troll harder. I'm moved past meterial desires and I don't need an emeter or a free lesson to sell me a happiness I've already attained. Dianetics was fodder for the abundance seeking yuppies of the 80's nobody believes your shit cult writings hold any merit.

I say again, ghost rider. Troll harder.

And that new documentary that just came out? I already knew what was in it befor wit came out because I can smell a cult like a fart in a car.

You're sick sick people

>>6357818
Are you saying Hubbard wasn't a literal man? Lay off the shrooms, you pretentious little cunt.

>>6357749
Muh free will

>>6357835
Child-fucking isn't necessarily a given, but the cult leader getting some of dat sweet brainwashed poon is.

Have there ever been any female cult leaders? I suspect not, since they don't have the mental capacity to lead.

>>6357841
muh pointless shitpost

>>6357838

No, I'm saying that someone as wise as L. Ron Hubbard obviously knew how people would respond to 'events' like this, so he used them to tell a story about modern society

Plot twist: Adam was the snake

>>6357838
Obviously he wasn't? His voyage was/is a powerful metaphor for our search for meaning.

Consider the billion year contract. It isn't meant to be taken literally (how could you sign for a billion years?), but it poetically means that you give your life to bring about the glorious vision of L. Ron Hubbard.

>>6357848
And most women who aren't hilariously hideous can find men willing to fuck them, even without telling them that their cum cures acne or helps with apotheosis or whatever it is cult leaders tell underaged girls.

>>6357849
I'm sorry, to extrapolate a bit, I meant that the usual answer any Christian will give you is that God allows free will, i.e. allows man to choose sin over God.

>>6357858

>there are actually people that take the billion year contract as a literal billion year contract

Always gets me. What the fuck are you people thinking? How dumb do you need to be to not see such an obvious metaphor?

>>6357851
He wrote about aliens and not even convincing ones at that. The only aliens we have in modern society are Mexicans. Your prophet was a looney. How remains should be shot into he sun as not to soil the earth a moment longer like his "poor at best" writing does.

>tfw I'm actually thinking of getting Dialectics and taking a few CoS sessions to learn how to better control people and situations

I'm ready to fully embrace my transformation into a nihilist who believes in nothing and desires only material success.

>>6357890

Again, you stupid fucking retard, Dianetics is a metaphorical text. Aliens obviously referred to alienated people, not immigrants.

Is the New International Version a good translation?

>Eating from Tree of the knowledge of good and evil and not the Tree of Life so that he could become immortal.

Adam you dumb, dumb motherfucker.

>>6357921
If you're reading for literary merit, KJV is the way to go.

>>6357921
No, get the King James Version, that has literary merit. The rest are shit.

>>6357907
I know what metaphorical meanings are you sperglord. Let's cut to the chase

Lrh was a writer and not even a great one
Scientology is a cult. Deal with it
Dianetics is so vague in its verbage that the content could actually be about an anthropomorphized ham sandwich with a diet pill problem and it would still work. And on that note, a story about a walking talking ham sandwich with a diet pill problem is a more believable fairy tale than lord xenu. So you can suck the pucker off my balloonknot.

>>6357930
>>6357932
I hope you're not being serious.

>>6357933
>I know what metaphorical meanings are you sperglord.

Your post shows that you really don't

>>6357936
Yea yea, KJV is awful for religious purposes, but it's simply beautiful.

>>6357936
Uhhh KJV is the only one that was translated for poetic value (it obeys metre in places).

>>6357942
>>6357946
Fair enough, I supposed by "good" translation he meant faithful, not necessarily the most beautiful, my bad.
Carry on.

>>6357936
Yes, you fucking doofus. Tyndale's version is not just the one with the most literary merit, rivaling Shakespeare for poetic deftness and beauty, but also is historically significant, having contributed greatly to the English language.

If you want to read the most accurate version of the Bible, read in the original language it was written.

>>6357930
>>6357932
>posting the same stupid shit twice

Get out.

>>6357907
>you stupid fucking retard
Go back to /b/ if you want to throw a tantrum.

Because it was a talking Snake, would you eat a talking snake?

>>6357994
Depends how hungry I was.

>>6357048
I'm praying for your soul butterfly.

>>6356898

Electrolytes

>>6356961
>oh sorry guiz I'm so random xd and u were really getting on my nerves >:(
>all is forgiven though haha see I just got crucified, that makes up for it rit? K the eternal damnation stuff is still there tho silly boiz, don't think I'm lettinfg u off 2 ez :))))))

>>6358095
>I'll talk to myself about your self

Okay. Knock your self out.