/lit/ - Literature

>>6325494
No, it's a remnant of pure ideology still present in your mind telling you that you need to fulfill any other goal than to "just live".

you did it all wrong

That's the antihumanist conundrum. You can tear away all the discipline, all the mechanisms of control, all of the subtle manipulation but what you'll find after such great destruction is that in the process, you destroyed yourself (your ideas, your desires, your drives, your structural framework for existence)--because all those mechanisms don't primarily serve to constrain what was there (your original essence if you will allow me), but rather to generate what you are.

In tearing away the chains, you find that the chains constituted who you were.

Before I had studied Stirner for thirty years, I saw mountains as mountains, and waters as waters. When I arrived at a more intimate knowledge, I came to the point where I saw that mountains are not mountains, and waters are not waters. But now that I have got its very substance I am at rest. For it's just that I see mountains once again as mountains, and waters once again as waters.

>>6325532
You dimwit! You were reading Budda all along!

>>6325586
>implying stirner wasn't a buddha

Nothing can hurt me, everything is merely a spook.

I am indestructible. Now is the time to let loose.

>>6325528
shiiiiiitttttt

>>6325528

>implying you can't destroy something uncounscious

>implying destruction

Too much drama, you can't really destroy beliefs, you just reemplace them with antithesis or something. Their existence is predicated in their absence and presence of the antithesis

>>6325494
Excuse the obvious newfaggotry, but what's a spook?

>>6326544
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ego_and_Its_Own
>The first part of the text begins by setting out a tripartite dialectical structure based on an individual's stages of life (Childhood, Youth and Adulthood).[1][2] In the first realistic stage, children are restricted by external material forces. Upon reaching the stage of youth, they begin to learn how to overcome these restrictions by what Stirner calls the "self-discovery of mind". However, in the idealistic stage, a youth now becomes enslaved by internal forces such as conscience, reason and other 'spooks' or 'fixed ideas' of the mind (including religion, nationalism and other ideologies). The final stage, 'egoism' sees the now adult individual freed from all internal and external constraints, attaining individual autonomy.[1]

>>6326555
Thank you kindly.
I'm glad to know and further research into the matter is entriguing.

Now read Nietzsche OP. What Stirner destroyed he will rebuild.

>>6326555
Isn't a spook a spook itself i.e. a fixed idea?

More that I come to think about it, I think the fact that I feel some need to ask you this is a spook, as I might as well not. Or no?

>>6325494
Uhhhh, sounds to me like you alienated yourself from humanity and as a result you have very little creativity from which to bolster your own dream for life... wait. I forgot where we were. Being alienated is the entire point, isn't it?

Oh. Oh, why am I here?

>>6326617
>why
That's a spooky question.

>>6326585
Spook refers to, as some examples were given 'religion, nationalism' ideologies, generally. So it pertains to fixed ideas which have moral or ideological connotations, i.e. nationalism one should take pride in their country. Addressing something as a spook doesn't in itself necessitate any moral behaviour or ideals but rather pertains to the validity, or universality of those ideas.

>>6326585
>>6326616

>>6326645
Obviously I'm being very liberal with the definition but Stirner refers to it as something that limits or constrains us, hence 'fixed idea.'

>>6326652

well i'd say you're being very constrictive with the definition

which is a way of liberally interpreting his ideas so yeah i guess
::)

OP you can buy a farm in Uruguay with a shitty house for 5k usd.
Spend another 5 setting up solar panels and grow a shitload of food and weed.
Buy great steaks from all your cattle ranch neighbours.

Read shit and fuck hos

I didn't realise a Stirner wojack already existed but here's mine anyway; I enjoyed drawing it and I believe it superior to this one, in fact the superior nature of it gives me a further pleasure.

>>6325494
Watch Three Colours Blue.

>>6326894
why would you go to uruguay when argentina is the same but cheaper?

>>6327282
Maybe he doesn't want to live in a black country

>>6327284
oh, he's gonna love all that white candombe and umbanda rituals.

Fucking children

>thinks he's rid himself of spooks
>still believes there is such a thing as "life" that he has to "get something out of"

>>6325542
>doesn't understand humans are social animals
>opportunities for survival and reproduction are better in groups
>social animals modify or restrain behaviour for group living
>humans have high intelligence
>humans have capacity for symbolic communication
>humans have a sense of social norms
>humans have a realization of "self"
>humans have a concept of continuity
>humans have an innate capacity for empathy
>humans exhibit disgust, one of the basic emotions, in response to dangerous or undesirable objects or behaviours
>altruism has evolved in social animals
>still thinks humans will devolve into anarchy without God


Then there's this: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2012/04/17/3478816.htm

>>6325494
>finally free

Not possible I think. The fact that Stirner makes it very clear that the attempt to clear the mind of spooks is dialectical, you will always be stuck with some of them, unless you constantly argue and try to dispel them in argument.

>>6326894
Is there anyone who's actually interested in doing something similar? What else are there of cheap places to live in?

>>6327417
Eastern Europe. Budapest has a pretty good standard of living, and you can survive on 200 euros/month: 100 for rent (sharing a flat, one on your own will be much more) and 100 for food/etc.

Plus, if you speak english it's so easy to get a job, well paid too, for the country. Or just do private english lessons, work whenever you want to, and hopefully get a qt3.14 or two as your students, guaranteed pussy.

>>6327445
>Budapest

topkek, moving to a country where a Nazi party has a say in government affairs, no way dude.

>>6327417
Ukraine would be a top choice too (Lviv, Odessa) if it wasn't for the war fucknig shit up.

>>6327451
Let me guess, you're American.

>>6327463
No, I'm Norwegian.

But the last time I was in Hungary, I was at the Ozora festival, and all the people going there were almost arrested, and detained for hours, even though they had done diddly-squat wrong, and didn't have any drugs at all.

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobbik

How is this party not a closet nazi party?

>>6327417
neet here, i'd be interested

anyone interested in growing mushrooms? we could become the foremost literary elite mushroom farmers and bring prosperity to some shithole village in asia

pic related should last us for decades over there, right?

>>6327509
in uruguay? 9 us grand would last you more or less three years if you really stretch it out.

>>6327445
I meant with buying a land of your own. You wouldn't want to live under the mercy of a landlord forever would you?

Also, I'm Asian. I'd prefer a country with the least racism.

>>6327509
Fuck yeah psilocybins.

>10grand

I doubt it man. Maybe if you strictly go for room for rents.

>>6326585
It depends on the relation between the person and the idea. As Stirner said:

>What is it, then, that is called a "fixed idea"? An idea that has subjected the man to itself.

You can use concepts without becoming their servant. There is nothing wrong with concepts in themselves. For example, I used the concept of "carefulness" today for my own purposes, while someone else out there is fighting "for humanity" or "the Kurdish people". They don't use ideas as tools but have become the tools of ideas.

>>6327451
Fuck off. Jobic actually went more conformist and snitched on an actual White Nationalist meeting.

>>6327526
>I'd prefer a country with the least racism.
Then I guess you aren't going to move to an asian country.

>>6325500
>>6327321
good posts

>>6327723
>Then I guess you aren't going to move to an asian country.
What? You mean move away from?

>>6327374

Those humans that exhibit disgust, feel guilt, etc are just social conditions from religion and laws.

I don't think that Spartans felt disgust when killing those atrophied babies, but for us it's almost unconceivable to do that without feeling *bad* in our *soul* (which is the mind for the Human)

Lacan and Zizek are too grounded in morality to see that their statements begs for a soul (or *good* mind) to make sense

>>6327409
There are no spooks when you just "are" though. Just being.

>>6327445
I already only spent 100/month on food...

>>6327739
He means that Asian countries are racist as fuck, which is the case.

You said that you preferred a country with less racism. What you secretly meant was less racism against you and the rest be damned.

>>6325494
>>6325528
>finally free myself
>you find that the chains constituted who you were
spooky

Both of these kinda imply the absolute negation of spooks, which is in itself a spook. You are the centre of your own experience, you are free to use spooks if and when you decide they are congruent to yourself as an end in itself.

>>6327913
>He means that Asian countries are racist as fuck, which is the case.
Ah, I agree.

>You said that you preferred a country with less racism. What you secretly meant was less racism against you and the rest be damned.
Not really. Where'd you get that from? It would be cool if it was sorta like a laid-back /int/ instead of a tensed /pol/ country.

>>6325542
the definition of God encompasses the definition of 'good', if one were so inclined towards christ. If one strives to be a god, one strives to be the absolute moral authority of existence, which is in no way a bad thing

>>6326583
I'd go with Camus

>>6326583
He doesn't, he just helps tear shit down even more and then when it's his time to step up he comes with the lamest anticlimax ever.

>work for le future big guy lads

>>6327445
I like the idea of this and it beats living in my parents' basement. How do I find the job before making the move?

>>6328127
also, although many will argue that this comes from misinterpretation, Nietzsche uses a certain tone and some ideas that align well with opressing/domination/etc, in a way that he seems fond of that

while Stirner is the exact opposite all the way
Stirner is metaphorically Jesus

>>6326583
isn't someone else giving you a goal and direction pretty spooky though

>>6328149
yeah
that's why >>6328120

>>6325494
how does the Verso books translation of Ego and it's own stand up?

>>6327475
>muh norwegian NGO was denied it's right to spy on another country

Please. If you are /lit/ you should detect overblown scandals by mainstream media.

>>6328181
it's a reprint of the more or less only translation into English by Byington. You don't have much of a choice.

If I strongly disagree with Stirner, which philosopher should I read for the opposite interpretation of the World? Marx? Hegel? Kierkegaard?

>>6328276
Why's Stirner wrong? Also Marx wrote quite a bit about him in The German Ideology, all of it negative

>>6328276

Hegel

>>6328276
Depends on why you disagree with him.

Why do you?

>>6328644

>inb4 if everybody is a egoist then everything would be destroyed

In that case, read Genealogy of the morals

>>6328276
Plato, Christ, Hegel, Giovanni Gentile. Evola (although unlike the others he's crap).

>>6328503
Marx and Stirner are 100% on the same page except Marx believes classes exist as hard reality, and the individual self is a spook, whereas Stirner takes the opposite position. Marx's realm of investigation is to prove that money is a spook, and that history is just a chronicle of the manifestations of class struggle, Marx seeks to liberate class from spooks, including individualism (which Marx holds to be a spook). Stirner's realm of investigation is spooks in general, even reason itself, and to liberate the individual; Stirner thinkers that an abolition of property and class will naturally happen once most people cease to believe in them.

>>6328652
Genealogy of Morals is a bit flawed. It takes the Melian Dialogue as representative of Greek morals, when in fact Thucydides (who despite being Athenian was an elitist) was illustrating how degenerate democracy is, and inserts foreshadowing in the dialogue about how Sparta is far more magnanimous (and magnanimity was a major Hellenic moral) toward Athens in the end (and Sparta, is of course, an aristocratic government, and Thucydides lived there in exile).

I WOULD RATHER READ ZIZEK THAN THAT MEMER STIRNER

>>6325589

Stirner was actually abducted by angels once he realized he was nothing more than Bolzmann brain.

>>6328706
>not realizing Zizek is the top meme philosopher
get out filthy pleb

>>6329042
I think that was supposed to be one of those "ironic shitposts" I keep hearing about. Just ignore it.

>>6325528

Fug. I was just thinking this today, but you expressed this much more elegantly.

>>6325597

I will trade you 10 GBP for that Rare Pepe.

>>6330002
what's the current GBP - tendie exchange rate?

>>6327284

>muh racial purity

How spooked are you?

>>6330009

1 GBP = .000000183 ounces of a tendie

Please respond quickly, I cannot guarantee such an offer forever.

>>6330012
Not him. but who says it has anything to do with racial purity? Just pragmatically speaking, there is a direct relation between the number of blacks in a country's populace and how shitty it is.

>>6330031
That's not worth it for me. I'm considering switching to the Asian Tendie Investment Bank. Americans have no right to keep tendie prices artificially high.

>>6330012
>argentina is whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite

Get on board the memetrain son or it'll fly down the river

>>6330050

>being this passive-aggressive

At least /pol/ is honest.

>>6330050
>identifying blacks as the problem
>not realizing that european colonialism and enslavement of african countries have resulted in this

>>6331467
more like the lax immigration requirements that allowed them in

>>6331469
>it's not the destruction of connection to their culture
>it's the africans themselves
you'd be a great fascist

Grow up and become a reactionary.

>>6331507
Please fucking explain in detail how something that happened 200 years ago somehow has anything at all to do with something thats occurred in the last 15 years

you may not believe in spooks but spooks believe in you

>>6331507
more like they see the west offering a better standard of life and decide to emigrate. only problem is they're usually worthless and end up as gutter trash

>>6328120
Do I go for 'The Stranger' or rather 'The Myth of Sisyphus'?

>>6325509
This.

>>6331532
do not pretend that colonialism isn't alive and well
sure, it's not under the names of nationstates, but under the wings of multinational corporations

>>6331830
>multinational corporations
which do not embody the national moral doctrine and are far less representative of antyhing and basically do what they want without contributing to nothing else but themselves

everybody lose with this bad for form of colonisation. And the worst part is that the third world colonizes us now.

>>6327276
Underate post. Great film :D

>>6325494

where to start with stirner? do i need any philosophical context? should i follow it up with anything?

Is there a hierarchy of spooks? Are some better to have than others?

>>6327741
>Those humans that exhibit disgust, feel guilt, etc are just social conditions from religion and laws.
evolutionary biology would have you believe otherwise

>>6332557
all spooks are equally invalid

>>6332567
They may be invalid but they can still lead to different outcomes

>>6331954
>the third world colonizes us now
" a colony is a territory under the immediate political control of a state, distinct from the home territory of the sovereign"
that's not 2015 Europe, 2015 USA or any other 2015 Western area
>b-but the muslims
there is a difference between a minority and a privileged minority
learn to see who's who

>>6332557
I guess you could talk about a hierarchy of abstraction, with spooks

"Truth" or "Morals" is very abstract, whereas "The State" or "Family" is pretty concrete

>>6332550
It's not entirely necessary to have any pre-reading, as Stirner is quite easy to read
However, it would be good to know a little of Hegelian philosophy, and some Feuerbach

>>6327741
>Those humans that exhibit disgust, feel guilt, etc are just social conditions from religion and laws.

Precisely. I don't see how that contradicts his point. Regardless of whether we believe in a God or not, we will form our morals and laws in accordance to needs of our time. It wouldn't be anarchy as many people suggest.

Unless you're trying to imply that our morals are derived entirely from religion and law, and that without them we would devolve into anarchy. Which would be absurd, because the opposite is true, religion and law are symptoms derived from the moral nature of man.

>>6332613

>moral nature of man

Read Heidegger

>tfw you want to become a conformist and embrace the ideologies propagated by the bourgeois