/lit/ - Literature

>>6293200
shang tsung.
gank a soul lad

Seems like Western thought didn't catch up to Eastern thought until the 20th Century.

>>6293212
This is a fucking terrible and inexplicably common opinion.
'Catch up' in what sense? Philosophy isn't an arms race, and in terms of science, the East certainly can't be said to be responsible for the invention of the computer, the internal combustion engine, or any number of other Western inventions. Chinese philosophy has no parallel to the Socratic method. The Daodejing is cool but it isn't the greatest work of philosophy. Confucianism is basically pure statism. Maoism is the best form of Communism, but aside from that the West has superior forms of thought in every other area.

Oriental philosphy a shit.
>>6293249
>maoism
>end up with fifty million dead
>best of them all
lmao

>>6293258
All communism is terrible but Marxism-Leninism is retarded.

>>6293200
>muh aesthetically gimmicky nihilism

>not starting with the Sumerians, the first civilisation

sure is pleb in here

>>6293258
>when people die under capitalism they just die, but when people die under communism it's deliberate murder

Start with the Cheese.

>reading chinese in translation

what's the point?

>>6293249

>begging the unanswerable, counterfactual Needham question

this particular brand of stupidity ought be rebranded as a logical fallacy and listed beneath "ad hominem" but above "ad auctoritatem" in freshman phil101 textbooks, so that plebs like you cease to embarrass the rest of us.

>>6293329
mmm cheese

>>6293327
>I swear that the great famines weren't due to commie policies!
>Red Terror wasn't ideologically driven!
>Stalin never killed anyone, it's all Capitalist propaganda
>CAPITALISM HAS KILLED OVER 9 BILLION PEOPLE WAKE UP PROLETARIAT

k

>>6293338
Could you explain why the Needham question is unanswerable and counterfactual?

>>6293338
That isn't even the Needham question, it's a fact that those things (the computer and the ICE) were invented in the West and not the East. The claim I was responding to was 'Western thought didn't catch up to Eastern thought until the 20th Century,' and I was using specific technological and scientific advances the West made that the East objectively didn't make as examples of why that claim seems faulty.

>>6293356
I'm not saying they were good boys, but saying that communism is shit because of famines while people are still continually dying of famines caused by capitalist policies is silly. Whining about the Red Terror American soldiers are bringing freedom to anyone who has natural resources is silly. Whining about Stalin killing people while everyone in power ever was killing people is silly.

Your complaint is basically that communism is bad because it doesn't instantly turn the world into a utopia that does away with all the problems of life itself.

>>6293379
Communism advocates killing those people, though. Capitalism just accepts it as a consequence of capital's desirable qualities and typically mourns them more than communism does.

>>6293200
*Commence with the Chinese

>>6293356
>>I swear that the great famines weren't due to commie policies!
Thinking logically: famines were very common before commie policies, and somehow stopped completely after commie policies were fully implemented.
>>Stalin never killed anyone, it's all Capitalist propaganda
No, Stalin never killed anyone personally.

>>6293258
http://monthlyreview.org/commentary/did-mao-really-kill-millions-in-the-great-leap-forward
Stop being willfully retarded

>>6293384
Commies generally see it as a necessary transition phase whereas capitalism actually needs it perpetually for it to function as a system. That's why the first can make their peace with it and the latter have to keep shedding crocodile tears.

>>6293200
Chinese have great philosophy and thought but one needs to commence chronologically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_literature
We should just make an ultimate patrician reading course to get people to stop asking.

>>6293356
>CAPITALISM HAS KILLED OVER 9 BILLION PEOPLE
Far more, I think.

>>6293401
Communism sees it as a necessary transition because it has a teleological view of history that's entirely incompatible with its materialist metaphysical underpinnings. If there isn't a Hegelian absolute subject controlling the outcome of history, there's no reason to assume that the transitional period will necessarily transition into full Communism.

>>6293327
>>6293379
>>6293391
>>6293401
>>6293410
>>6293412
>another thread turned into a communist ciriclejerk
Shouldn't you kids be in school?

>>6293412
The justification doesn't need such absolutes to function. A simple improvement can be enough, like going to the dentists to have your wisdom teeth removed.

>>6293412
This like Communism 101 mate. Mao wrote very famously on this last point.

>>6293416
>start anti-commie blathering
>get blown the fuck out
>hur dur circle-jerk stop obressn me

Fuck off

>>6293433
That was my first post in the thread, but nice try. You didn't blow anybody out, you just spouted some drivel taken from a 1950 propaganda pamphlet. At the end of the day liberals aren't the ones defending an ideology that apologizes for mass murder.

>>6293433
>Implying opposition to communism can't have a sound basis

>>6293440
>implying it's represented as such in this thread

>>6293323

>starting with civilization
>not learning from our Neanderthal forebears and realizing that civilization is a destructive recurring loop

>>6293443
>tfw want to take a class in cave painting reading but mum won't let me

>>6293438
>That was my first post in the thread
>You didn't blow anybody out
>liberals aren't the ones defending an ideology that apologizes for mass murder.
This nigga

>>6293442
Neither is its defense.
>M-Mao didn't kill people
>I-if he did it was a good thing
>L-liberals
Communists devour propaganda and don't even realize it.

>>6293449

homeschool youself

>>6293438
>At the end of the day liberals aren't the ones defending an ideology that apologizes for mass murder.
That's right, they don't apologise.

>>6293455
Provide a good argument against communism.

>>6293467
It doesn't work and your wasted hours brainwashing yourself don't magically warrant a more elaborate response. Stay perpetually fuming.

>>6293467
It advocates the murder of innocent people for the advancement of an ideology that's no more valid than the ones it opposes.
Every Communist government that has existed has been repressive to a greater degree than the liberal governments they opposes themselves to.
There's no reason to believe a single-class society can exist or be sustained indefinitely. The concept is historically unprecedented and painfully idealistic.

>inb4 L-LIBERAL CUCK

>>6293474
How can something not work when it's never been tried?

>>6293480
>My special brand of communism has never been tried!
>Those were socialist governments, not communist governments!

>>6293212

>Seems like Western thought didn't catch up to Eastern thought until the 20th Century.

Are there *any* people who seriously think that? I mean, people well-versed in philosophy who actually think that? Even to a novice it's painfully obvious that since Classical period with exclusion of late antiquity/early middle ages West has been shitting on every other part of the world in philosophy. I could even stomach people disputing what I asserted above, but to say that since 17th century West hasn't had a monopoly for philosophy is just asinine.

>>6293249
>West has superior forms of thought in every other area

Not embodied soteriology.

>>6293475
>It advocates the murder of innocent people
It does not, you just have very different ideas about innocence. Exploiting peasants is not innocent in their eyes, for example.
>for the advancement of an ideology that's no more valid than the ones it opposes.
Every ideology does this. This is not an argument against communism but an lamentation of the absence of absolute values.
>Every Communist government that has existed has been repressive to a greater degree than the liberal governments they opposes themselves to.
There has never existed a communist government. Communism and state socialism are different things.

>There's no reason to believe a single-class society can exist or be sustained indefinitely. The concept is historically unprecedented and painfully idealistic.
It's not prehistorically unprecedented. Class society is a relatively new thing for humanity.

>>6293495
>Implying Christianity isn't the best

>>6293495
Or alternative medicine.

>>6293500
Pure spookeology

>>6293511
>alternative medicine

Let me heal this cancer with bioenergy and acupuncture, you just wait!

>>6293512
Stirner's thought is actually much more compatible with communism than liberalism. His notions of property are a good example.

>>6293521
I'm not even a Stirnerite, I'm just letting you know you've been spooked by an ideology that would probably kill you for being a class criminal if it had its way.

When people start to consider oriental systems of belief as serious philosophy you know /lit/ has went to shit.

>>6293391
>somehow stopped completely after commie policies were fully implemented
Well when you kill off 9 million people who had all needed food you're going to have proportionally more food to go around.

>>6293702
Except the population grew 400 million under Mao.

>>6293717
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Famine_deaths

>>6293746
http://monthlyreview.org/commentary/did-mao-really-kill-millions-in-the-great-leap-forward/

That's not the point though, the point is that with such a huge population growth without further starvation, his plan actually worked.

China has a long history of famine, some a lot worse than the Great Leap Forward:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China

The last famine may have happened during Mao's reign, but it was also the last. He also transformed China from a peasant shithole into a modern country in the meanwhile. That's not an easy accomplishment. Industrialisation in the West wasn't all fun and games either, by the way.

>>6293823
You're a moron. The only ones on that list worse than the GLF were during wartime. And China is still not a "modern country" by any means. Sure it has some wealthy oligarchs and big cities, but those easily could have sprung up without Mao's borderline insane economic programs.

>>6293838
You forgot to read the article.

>>6293892
>Article by a Marxist defending Mao
>Implying this isn't pure apologism
>Implying you aren't spouting ideology

>>6293902
>ideology
Zizek fags have ruined that word

>>6293923
*sniff*

>>6293944
With all his sniffing and talk of pure ideology I feel like ideology is his codeword for cocaine.

>>6293969

and so on, and so on

>browsing /lit/ without having started at some point.
that always bothered me of that meme

>>6293902
>this article is biased, I rather base my notion of mao on american cold war propaganda

>>6293993
You know what? You know what?
I would prefer, not to.

Start with the Sumerians.
Begin at Babylon.
Commence with the Chinese.
Enter with the Egyptians.
Proceed with the persians.
Initiate with the Ionians.
Ascend with the assyrians.

jk start with the greeks

>>6294213
>I prefer Soviet and Maoist propaganda to American propaganda; therefore I'm right

>>6294227
Why did it become so alliterative when the base isn't?

>>6294237
>facts are soviet propaganda!!1
>mao personally killed one hundred gorillion people!
Protip: the other guy is citing facts, while you're trying to appeal to baseless emotional heartstrings. (Mao was a murderer!!1 Think of the children!)

P.S. I'm not even a Marxist, Marxism is retarded and clearly wrong. Facts are facts, however.

>>6294344
So you're saying it isn't a fact that millions died under Soviet and Maoist rule?

>>6294353
>So you're saying it isn't a fact that millions died under Soviet and Maoist rule?
Millions die every day under every regime. That's what all people do, we haven't invented immortality yet.

Care to make a factual statement now? Don't insult my intelligence with your thinly-veiled "mao is evil! think of the children!" diatribes.

>>6294353
105 people are dying every minute right now. It would be strange if millions didn't die under Soviet and Maoist rule.

>>6294362
>>6294393
Millions died as a direct consequence of Mao's policies, which involved the extermination of class traitors and the collectivization and reorganization of formerly privately owned land.
Enjoy your ideology, I'm done arguing with you. If you can't think of the lives lost under these regimes as both facts and individual human beings, you aren't worth talking to.

Thread soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7QzxYAjgNc

>>6293200
Does anyone know anything about Mohism? Why is it neglected so much?

>>6294411
Millions died as a direct consequence of capitalist policies, which involved the extermination of 'criminals' and the privatisation and reorganization of formerly collectively owned land.

See how easy this is?

>>6294449
What kind of pleasure do you derive from this pure contrarianism?

>>6294487
None so far as your absolutism.

>>6294449
>Millions died as a direct consequence of capitalist policies
which capitalist policies, and which millions in particular?

>>6294515
Imaginary, reactionary scum.

This thread is what happens when you don't start with the Greeks

>>6293200
>start with the Chinese
>feel intellectually hungry an hour later

>>6294515
Private property, all the people starving or otherwise dying of some kind of deprivation in places with a market economy.

Confucius > Plato
Stoics > Taoists

Prove me wrong.

>wanking about communism instead of reading Chinese literature

Typical /lit/. I bet you faggots can't even turn into a giant bird named Peng, whose back is a thousand leagues wide, and fly off to the Southern Oblivion.

I started with the Greeks and ended with the Chinese. What say you /lit/?

>>6296227
>Wu Wei.
Mu.

>>6296237
ended up with the Chinese and the Buddhists*

>>6296237
>>6296241
Can't beggar the Heidegger.

>>6294575


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity

>>6293249
actually we are slowly learning that many things were already known by the ancient chinese. Natural medicine being one of them.

>>6296279

>>6296280
yes really...

>>6293500
>they only kill dem evuul capitalists

A majority of the victims were the poorest of people

>>6294237
See what he did there, he turned your argument which is based on observable facts and witness testimony into American propaganda and you responded likewise. Now it's just a matter of shouting more and higher to be right.

>>6296253
>muh overpopulation

>>6296279
>Natural medicine
le steve jobs face.

The third basket of the Pali Canon.

>>6296280
It's true. How long did it take for Western "science" to discover that dragon testicles can cure cancer, hmmm?

>>6296292
prolly uppity lumpenproles

>>6296227
Communism and Chinese lit go hand in hand.

>>6296227
No because I'm not a fucking nerd.

Why is /lit/ so eurocentrist..
You fuckers should stop agreeing with Zizek so much.

>>6297612
>Implying Orientalism is better than Eurocentrism

>>6297620

>implying it's either/or

The intellectual vanguard of 4chan, everyone.

>>6297631
I got the impression you were implying it was either/or. You were the first to use the word Eurocentrist in this thread.

>>6297612
Zizek is right about Asian valuea, though.

>>6297631
>>6297675
I want daneaboos to leave

>>6293263
>Marxism-Leninism

bro, maoism is a branch of marxism-leninism

>6297683

>the tyrannical east vs. the freedom seeking west

I thought this trope died with the second half of the last century.

>>6293323
indus river valley civilization was the first civilization, athough the nomadic aryan people in the eurasian steppes were probably really the first considering they ended up spreading across the whole known world and inventing the wheel etc. the sumerians where just the first people with writing, which doesn't mean shit

>>6297766
sorry dude no amount of political correctness and white guilt can change the fact that oriental despotism is a real thing

>>6297719
My boy Soren

>>6297772

Yeah those chink genes really make one go for tyrants don't they?

>>6297766
It would have if it weren't true.

>>6297780
Are you implying that people living under Chinese communist rule have more freedom than people in Europe or America?

>>6297780
"oriental despotism" comes from material conditions not genes, if you're going to claim something is a "trope" maybe you should learn what it actually is first, you fucking pleb, go back to tumblr

>>6297786

Freedom is a relative concept.

>>6297787

It is a trope, a narrative that's been regurgitated over and over again.
What makes them despotic in a way that we aren't?

>>6297780
>Thinking that argument is necessarily predicated on genetics
>2015
It's like you don't even know that language and soil are the true determiners of culture

>>6297803
>What makes them despotic in a way that we aren't?

maybe you should try reading a fucking book, retard

>>6297803
>Freedom is a relative concept.
And relative to Americans and Europeans, the average Chinese person has fewer rights and fewer meaningful forms of freedom.
What is freedom to you?
Also, using the word 'trope' at all is typically enough to invalidate your whole argument. 'Meme' would be more accurate, and 'theory' would be most accurate.

>>6297816

>ur dumb n illiterate

Solid /lit/ retort.

>>6297803
>relative concepts

How about you open a fucking ontological book you ape

>>6297821
In your case it seems to be accurate.

>>6297821
you clearly haven't done any even entry level reading on the topic, you and you can't support your own side in a sophisticated way so what's the point in talking about? just saying "everyone is the same because i like japanese cartoons and wack it to korean popstars" is not an argument

>>6297820

Why is that 'typically enough' to invalidate my argument?
Whatever, this tangent matters shit. I'll use maymay then.

Ok, this maymay is only used by either orthodox Marxists of the Zizek ilk or the usual /pol/suspects and English literature and philosophy undergrads trying to talk world history. Actual historians try to not use totalities like "oriental despotism" anymore. It has too many moral implications.
Maybe a dude like Hans Kohn did still, but that time is long gone now.

>>6297821
I don't think you have the cultural luggage necessary to engage in this debate tbh

didn't mean to be a rhetorical attack but I gotta be honest

>>6297834
>>6297831

>some more ur dumb n havnt read anyding
>some imma assume ur a weeaboo

/lit/ can't into discussion.
It doesn't seem like you have much to say but paraphrase Zizek.

>>6297823

IM SO MAD I CANT EVEN READ CATCHER IN THE RYE TONIGHT

You guys are really funny getting so fed up over a discussion on Asian cultures.

>>6297838
>All that argumentum ad hominem targeting Zizek and the /pol/ bogeyman
>No response to my question about what freedom means
>No response to my question about the qualitative differences between the rights of people living under Chinese Communist rule and the PRC's massive quantity of human rights abusrs compared to the rights acknowledged by Western governments
Just what I'd expect from someone who uses the word trope to describe a theory.

>>6297853

Protip: the largest democracy on Earth is in the East.

>>6297858
I'm talking about China, friend.
The fact that India is a democracy doesn't make it less of a rapey shithole, but that's a different story that has no bearing on the arguments you're failing to respond to.

>>6297871

We were talking about "oriental despotism" right?
You give China.
I give you India, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, ...
Where's this orient you guys talk about that solely has tyrants and is clearly a thing?

>>6297876
North Korea, Russia, China, you know, the parts that haven't adopted Western economic and legal standards. The ones you've named are successful democracies and economic powerhouses precisely because they've moved away from the model in question, which they only did because of Western interference.
Yes, I'm implying that Western imperialism can be a good thing.

>>6297889
Although Russia has adopted capitalist policies, Putinism is basically despotism and Soviet rule also exemplified the model.

i'm an extremely casual philosophy reader and i find eastern philosophy to be more in the hippy line of thinking.

>>6297889

I don't know how old you are, but around the time you were sucking your mom's tit or your dad jizzed in her, there were enough regimes in Europe as well that could compete with the so-called oppressive East.

If some parts of the east have embraced modernity that doesn't make them eternally indebted to the West or implies this is still an alien body in their midst.
They've molded it to be theirs, just like we molded Christianity to be ours, part of European heritage, even if it had a sandnigger origin ( to make myself a bit more comprehensible for racists on here ).

If oriental despotism is supposed to be a thing because it was in the distant past a thing, just fuck off already.
By that logic we have occidental despotism because up until the 19th century inbred prognathic jaws controlled European politics.
It's a meaningless term.

>>6297918
>I don't know how old you are, but around the time you were sucking your mom's tit or your dad jizzed in her, there were enough regimes in Europe as well that could compete with the so-called oppressive East.
See my comment about Soviet rule.
>If some parts of the east have embraced modernity that doesn't make them eternally indebted to the West or implies this is still an alien body in their midst.
But it only came to the East because of the West. Whether or not the success of the Asian tigers is based off of Western economic ideas and successful emulation and improvement of Western technology is an entirely different question from whether or not they made it their own. The industrial revolution happened in the West and was transmitted around the world.
>They've molded it to be theirs, just like we molded Christianity to be ours, part of European heritage
That's my point, idiot.
>If oriental despotism is supposed to be a thing because it was in the distant past a thing, just fuck off already.
By should I? If you want to think the past disappears when the future comes along go ahead, but you're wrong.
>By that logic we have occidental despotism because up until the 19th century inbred prognathic jaws controlled European politics.
That's true, though. The French and American revolutions and the emergence of industrial capitalism are the largest factors that allowed for the kind of freedom I'm talking about.

>>6297953

It still doesn't mean shit if it came to the East through the West, or even that it is Western in origin.
It's now theirs. Done deal. They are furthering it on their own without us keeping a close look.
The whole idea China will always be oppressive.. Remains to be seen.

In most of the 'Orient' they are also taking up the industrial revolution and improving unto it in their own ways.

I never got this obsession over "well it's ours and will always be ours, and it's thanks to us".
The original onset was that it was something universal, not regional with half-assed mimicry around the world. Be glad it has become universal and now each is breeding a new version of it to life.
Just stop obsessing over the fact who fired the first shots. I don't see this much happening with Abrahamitic religion. Not much feverish defenses over the fact it's non-western in origin.

Start with Indians.

>>6297997
>It still doesn't mean shit if it came to the East through the West, or even that it is Western in origin.
Yes it does, unless you're claiming that the East had an independent industrial revolution, which is factually incorrect.
>I never got this obsession over "well it's ours and will always be ours, and it's thanks to us".
No, it's always been 'We started it and need to spread it around the world.' Are you unfamiliar with the concept of the white man's burden?

>>6297997
>Just stop obsessing over the fact who fired the first shots. I
But that's not as unimportant as you want it to be. The historical development of capitalism took place in Europe. You don't want to acknowledge that fact because it would prove you wrong.
>I don't see this much happening with Abrahamitic religion. Not much feverish defenses over the fact it's non-western in origin
You haven't ever argued with someone who referred to Abrahamic religions as backwards desert cults that a modern Western secular society should leave behind because of how oppressive they are? You must be new to the internet.

>>6297889
>Western imperialism can be a good thing.
>can be

It never has not been a good thing.

>>6298009

Agriculture started in another part of the world too.. Explain to me how that is relevant to how we did it afterwards?
The origin of something doesn't determine its entire course..

They did, but with a universal intention.

It wasn't always through conquest that this model got implemented though. Modernization began in other parts of the world without full take-over by Westerners ( Ottomans already started in the 18th century with some attempts, some for Japan in the 19th ).

>>6298054
>Agriculture started in another part of the world too..
Yes, and it was adopted by people in other parts of the world.
>Explain to me how that is relevant to how we did it afterwards?
It's only irrelevant if you want to disregard the history of agriculture. You're pretty keen to ignore origins because you know that if you don't you'll have to admit you're wrong.
>The origin of something doesn't determine its entire course..
No, and it's never been my point that it does.

>They did, but with a universal intention.
My point has been that capitalism has been universalized, not that it's confined to a few Western countries.
>It wasn't always through conquest that this model got implemented though. Modernization began in other parts of the world without full take-over by Westerners ( Ottomans already started in the 18th century with some attempts, some for Japan in the 19th ).
Do you not know that Japan was forced to open up to Western trade? The industrial revolution began in England, I don't really see how you can link the emergence of industrial capitalism and and the concept of human rights to the Ottomans.

>>6293482
show me a place other than primitive communisms where class, money, and the state were all abolished.

>>6298108
>Those were socialist governments, not communist governments!

>>6298119
they were socialist governments that held communist ideals

>>6298125
So that IS what socialism looks like?

>>6298143
China during the cultural revolution is a prime example of what socialism looks like.

>>6298156
So it's violent?

/lit/ is the best board on 4chan and it's shit

thanks for the book recs guys, I'm out with this fucking thread

>>6297777
mirin

bump

>>6300083
Why would you do that

>>6293200
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLwxNMb28XmpdJpJzF2YRBnfmOva0HE0ZI&v=dFb7Hxva5rg

yep

>>6293387
Commy with the chibbies

>>6297803
>What makes them despotic in a way that we aren't?
Wait, do you think that Oriental despotism is a theory that involves every Chinese person being despotic? How the hell would that work?

>>6294362
>Millions die every day under every regime
That is an entirely different issue, you Maoist cuck

>>6302039
>mao is a bad guy because millions died under his rule
>but millions die under everyone's rule
>THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT I WANT MAO TO TRANSCEND THE LAWS OF NATURE OTHERWISE IS A BAD BAD GUY GIVE ME UTOPIA OR YOU ARE EVIL

>>6302039
>That is an entirely different issue
Really? How would I know? You haven't explained yourself coherently, so far I can't tell if there's an 'issue' at hand at all.

>>6302207
>You haven't explained yourself coherently, so far I can't tell if there's an 'issue' at hand at all.
This should be a 4chan banner

bump

>>6297889
>India, ROK, Japan, Taiwan
>Democracies
>Successful
>Yes, I'm implying that Western imperialism can be a good thing.
Only someone that could entertain the latter could conclude what preceded it. Neoliberalist eyes don't see reality.

>>6293200
Do not start with the Chinese... It is very indirect and views things as cyclically, which is counter to western thought. If that's where you start you will just be confused, though it has good insights, and in a way, is similar to progressiveness in the philosophical sense,

>>6293412
I doubt most Chinese now a days would say that Mao had the Mandate from Heaven.

>>6293494
Chinese philosophy was superior to western up until the 18th century with industrialization.

>>6294438
because it is Christianity without God and with a lesser conditional rather than unconditional love philosophically.

Start with the greeks?
no pleb, start with the gooks

>>6296203
1st one right I agree with, but the second one doesn't really compare very well. Maybe Epicurus vs Taoists? In that case Epicurus. Though the Taoist's understanding of absolutes not really existing, whether their rationale was redculous or not, is pretty cool

>It was Lao Tzu who originated: ‘those who know don’t speak; those who speak don’t know’.

RICHARD: Yes, there are at least 48 translations into English, which have slight variations on your version.

>The way I’ve heard it is that he was going off into the wilderness, sick at heart over the ways of man, and the gatekeeper influenced him to record his wisdom for prosperity.

RICHARD: Hmm ... a person who is ‘sick at heart over the ways of man’ could hardly be said to be operating from clarity and purity, eh? An intelligence tethered by feelings of a nauseous sorrow is a crippled intelligence ... no wonder he penned such pithy aphorisms as ‘those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know’.

He probably had nothing better to say.

>If you notice, Lao Tzu spoke poetically, with the heart and mind and not just the divided intellect.

RICHARD: Aye ... and thus all the wars and murders and rapes and tortures and domestic violence and child abuse and suicides roll on down through the centuries unabated.

>>6304527
whats this from?

>>6293200


der Grecians predate das confuzis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_Age

>>6304527
whos richard? and why is what he says important?

My questioning of life, the universe and what it is to be a human being had all started in a war-torn country in June 1966 at age nineteen – when there was an identity inhabiting this body complete with a full suite of feelings – and a Buddhist monk killed himself in a most gruesome way. There was I, a callow youth dressed in a jungle-green uniform and with a loaded rifle in my hand, representing the secular way to peace. There was a fellow human being, dressed in religious robes dowsed with petrol and with a cigarette lighter in hand, representing the spiritual way to peace.

I was aghast at what we were both doing ... and I sought to find a third alternative to being either ‘human’ or ‘divine’.

This was to be the turning point of my life, for up until then, I was a typical western youth, raised to believe in God, Queen and Country. Humanity’s inhumanity to humanity – society’s treatment of its subject citizens – was driven home to me, there and then, in a way that left me appalled, horrified, terrified and repulsed to the core of my being with a sick revulsion. I saw that no one knew what was going on and – most importantly – that no one was ‘in charge’ of the world. There was nobody to ‘save’ the human race ... all gods were but a figment of a feverish imagination. Out of a despairing desperation, which was collectively shared by my fellow humans, I saw and understood that I was as ‘guilty’ as any one else. For in me – as is in everyone – was both ‘good’ and ‘bad’ ... it was that some people were better than others at controlling their ‘dark side’. However, in a war, there is no way anyone can consistently control any longer ... ‘evil’ ran rampant. I saw that fear and aggression and nurture and desire ruled the world ... and that these were instincts one was born with. Thus started my search for freedom from the ‘Human Condition’ ... and my attitude, all those years ago was this:

I was only interested in changing myself fundamentally, radically, completely and utterly.

Richard’s Text: A brief personal introduction

More than a few Westerners have foolishly allowed themselves to be taken in by the apparent wisdom coming from the Eastern mystical tradition – ‘Spiritual Enlightenment’ and other ‘Altered States Of Consciousness’ (ASC) – because of the paucity of experiential wisdom in their own culture. It all started growing exponentially after the ’sixties generation trekked eagerly to the Himalayas, and to other exotic places eastern, to find the permanent drug experience ... and found cultures who had been practicing same for centuries, which (with the benefit of hindsight) has had predictably the self-same results: mystical ‘States Of Being’ that take one out of the physical world of the senses into a dissociative state of unreality.

However, by being born and raised in the West peoples who are thus not steeped in the mystical religious cultures of the East will be able to escape the trap of centuries of Eastern spiritual conditioning by achieving a condition beyond ‘Spiritual Enlightenment’ which lands one directly into the actuality of being here at this place in infinite space right now at this moment in eternal time as this flesh and blood body. For too many years have people sought in vain in the esoteric realms for a genuine exploration and discovery of what it means to live a fully human life, little realising there is an incomparable condition located here in this very physical world, this actual world of the senses. For there is indeed an actual freedom from the human condition that is a physical condition which, not being an affective or cerebral or psychic state of ‘being’, and which ensues when one sidesteps ‘Spiritual Enlightenment’, requires no frantic belief-system with all its faith, hope, trust and surrender to attain it.

The blame for the continuation of human misery and mayhem lies squarely in the lap of those inspired people who, although having sufficient enthusiasm to proceed into ‘The Unknown’, stopped short of the final goal ... ‘The Unknowable’. Notwithstanding the cessation of a personal ego operating, they were unwilling to relinquish the Soul, the Self, the Spirit, the Being ... thus an ego-less Guru is still an identity, nevertheless. In spite of the glamour and the glory of the ASC, closer examination reveals that these ‘Great Sages’ had – and have – feet of clay. Bewitched and beguiled by the promise of majesty and mystery, they have led humankind astray. Preaching submission or supplication they keep a benighted ‘humanity’ in appalling tribulation and distress. The death of the ego is not sufficient: the extinction of the identity in its entirety is the essential ingredient for peace and prosperity to reign for each and everyone individually.

There is nobody to ‘save’ the human race.

>>6304574
Obviously he is an anglo-saxon

>>6304527
this is so stupid

>In my reading of the thing [‘those who know do not speak; those who speak do not know’], he is saying it is not that one does not speak at all, but one speaks hesitantly, sceptically – because one is aware of the indescribable miraculousness of Life.

RICHARD: Do you mean that one speaks tentatively because real knowledge is unobtainable (Pyrrhonic Scepticism) or that one speaks with diffidence because of a doubting disposition (Chronic Scepticism)? Or was the basis of his unspeakable wisdom – that which would ostensibly bring about peace on earth – a humble: ‘I don’t know’?

>It is simply that the description is not the described and that the sage is aware of this simple truth.

RICHARD: In other words: the Truth can be realised but it cannot be described because the nature, character, disposition or quality of the Truth is unintelligible in that it cannot be perceived, comprehended, understood, grasped and established distinctly and unambiguously in an unmistakeable manner? Which means that confusion reigns supreme? Which means that Mr Lao Tzu is revered by millions for being able to realise something – that which would ostensibly bring about peace on earth – but he could not perceive, comprehend, understand, grasp or establish it distinctly and unambiguously and in an unmistakeable manner so as to communicate it to his fellow human beings? Thus 2,500 years have rolled on by since he coalesced the vapours ... and countless millions have suffered because of his ineptitude?

Or is it the ineffectiveness of ‘The Truth’ to bring about a liveable peace on earth?

>>6304689
this means nothing if you don't provide a source or at least some background you goofball. Who is richard and what does he do? who is interviewing him?

http://actualfreedom.com.au/richard/articles/richardsresume.htm

Here's his resume.

>>6304700
literal autism

Incidentally, it is considered that autism (and/or Asperger’s Syndrome) is best characterised as ‘mind-blindness’; in other words, autistic individuals generally lack a ‘theory of mind’.

The ‘theory of mind’ is a term which basically denotes that human communal interaction, as contrasted to animals’ communal interaction, depends primarily upon one’s knowledge about other people’s consciousness (the recognition of a mind in other people similar to one’s own). There is more to it than just this, though: normal adult humans have a ‘theory of mind’ in that they understand that (a) other humans have wants, ideas and intentions that may differ from one’s own; (b) that desires and ideals are different from plans and actions; (c) that concepts may or may not correspond with what is actually occurring in the world. To put it simply, for an example, because one has a ‘theory of mind’ one understands that one can simultaneously (1) know that Santa Claus does not exist and (2) know that for a child the child knows that Santa Claus exists and (3) know that the child’s ‘knowing’ is actually believing.

On another note, just because I have a good strong sense of what you're feeling does not mean I have to feel the same thing.

Apparently his sex life is phenomenal.

Here's another look if you want to ascertain for yourself if this man is autistic:

http://actualfreedom.com.au/downloads/outfromcontrolsample.zip

http://actualfreedom.com.au/downloads/virtualfreedomsample.zip

http://actualfreedom.com.au/downloads/pcesample.zip

>>6304811
>>6304850

Go to bed, Richard.

bump

>>6304451
Sorry I'm not a Communist.

hey

Orientals don't know shit about philosophy. Their countries are too crowded for any of them to think properly

Communism a good boy he din do nuffin

do it

Well, now that the shitposting has been over, who can recommend us some chinese?

>>6311461
There's a decent place down my street, their crab rangoons aren't bad

ha

>>6297820
>>Freedom is a relative concept.
>And relative to Americans and Europeans, the average Chinese person has fewer rights and fewer meaningful forms of freedom.
so you recognize that western logic is not followed by everyone... in a thread suggesting that people should, at least, look at chinese philosophy.
meanwhile, these faggots:
>>6297816
>>6297823
>>6297834
>>6297841
think that western philosophy is universal.
lovely :^)

>>6298143
there are many types of socialism... just like there are many types of capitalism. what's so difficult to understand?

>>6293249
>maoism is best communism

I remember you from the Marxism thread earlier. You've shilled for Maoism enough today.

>>6313542
Not that guy but MLM is revolutionary tier.

bump

>>6313555
Is /lit/ the Maoist board?

>>6314979
it should be, we must study well and learn the dictatorship of the proletariat.

>>6315012
The text of this one is great (in the file name)

>>6315021
The Cultural Revolution has a futurist feel to it tbh.

>>6315086

From what I've gathered from Wikipedia, Socialist Realism was created from a neoclassical return among Constructivists within the Soviet Union, and was promoted by the state. Constructivism itself took a bit of inspiration from Futurism and vice versa. The Socialist Realism of the Cultural Revolution is Socialist Realism within the context of the revolutionary upheavel that occured in China, (taking a very little bit of influence from traditional Chinese art)

Of course, I could be blatantly wrong being that I took all of this from various Wikipedia articles.

>>6314979
naa