/lit/ - Literature

Dude holy shit thank you for staring this thread

As for books, Stalin-Court of the Red Tsar is a top tier bio. idk where you can find it or if there is an audio version my dad had a copy and I just picked it up one day. It isn't a history of the USSR or a bio of his life, it's a huge wealth of info on what life was like for the inner circle of Stalin's rule. I cannot stress how good this book is if you are interested in this sort of thing.

Stalin was charming, lively, entertaining, humorous, with an excellent singing voice, an enthusiastic movie buff, an intellectual who read a book a day, and was begrudgingly liked by both Churchill and FDR.

>>6280141
Yeah bro, you'll definitely be able to emulate Stalin

ITT skinny, histrionic faggots no one likes

>>6280141
bump

>>6280202
I'm very popular at my congregation, I've actually been doing pretty well showing people how Stalinist is compatible with Catholicism, especially young people. My gf and I even start a Stalinist Catholic club, we're thinking about getting a fb group going.

>>6280210
your nigger-tier cult is a dying mockery. Nobody thinks you are unique or interesting for pretending to respect a paranoid tyrant.

>>>/pol/

>>6280205
>Bumping something already on the first page of a slow board with a non-4chan filename image

Newfag from tumblr get the fuck out.

>>6280210

I puked

>>6280202
not OP, I don't want to emulate the fucker he's just an interesting guy anon even if he and his cronies carried out innumerable atrocities his rule was full of mind boggling hypocrisy and had some very funny moments in it

>>6280141
>can I get a biography with an objective tone about the worlds worst genocidal dictator
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

>>6280229
Stalin is Lawful Good

>>6280239
Nobody even knows what that means nerd. Like what my nigga?

>>6280239
Fuck no

At least Hitler won a democratic election with universal suffrage and multiple parties

All Stalin did was succeed another tyrant

>>6280210
>catholic Stalinist club
For Socialism, which could then be termed almost a single system and which maintained definite teachings reduced into one body of doctrine, has since then split chiefly into two sections, often opposing each other and even bitterly hostile, without either one however abandoning a position fundamentally contrary to Christian truth that was characteristic of Socialism

But what if Socialism has really been so tempered and modified as to the class struggle and private ownership that there is in it no longer anything to be censured on these points? Has it thereby renounced its contradictory nature to the Christian religion? This is the question that holds many minds in suspense. And numerous are the Catholics who, although they clearly understand that Christian principles can never be abandoned or diminished seem to turn their eyes to the Holy See and earnestly beseech Us to decide whether this form of Socialism has so far recovered from false doctrines that it can be accepted without the sacrifice of any Christian principle and in a certain sense be baptized. That We, in keeping with Our fatherly solicitude, may answer their petitions, We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth

Socialism is based nevertheless on a theory of human society peculiar to itself and irreconcilable with true Christianity. Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist

also do you browse /gsg/?

>>6280259

>That We, in keeping with Our fatherly solicitude, may answer their petitions, We make this pronouncement

where the fuck is Lacan when you need him

>>6280259
Capitalism thrives on money-lending, it can't function without it, socialism is far more Christian than our current system.

>>6280259
>democratic election
>after burning the reichstag and forbidding the third most important party
can we stop this shit already?

>>6280270
>socialism is far more Christian than our current system
>laughing_aborted_children.jpg
>laughing_homosexual_newlyweds.gif
>laughing_hedonists.png

>>6280280

go the fuck away
you don't belong on this board

same goes to the rest of you christians

>>6280280
Where do you get the idea that Stalinism is about social liberalism? Stalin only liked social liberalism as a weapon to drop on enemy nations, not as something for socialist countries.

>>6280141
Ðilas, obviously

>>6280281
Hedonist detected

>>6280286
You said socialism was far more Christian than capitalism
Yet I utterly fail to see that in any way shape or form
I see the morals espoused by socialists as utterly abhorrent and completely contradictory to Christian teaching

>>6280291

this degree of retardation is unsettling

if the faithful morons keep flooding the place I'm out for good, state-approved limbs of social power have fucked everything up enough, they should at least let /lit/ be sacred from gargantuan idiocy

>>6280291
You're talking about revisionist socialists, those are the sort Stalin would deal very harshly with.

Socialism is more Christian because the economics are based purely on labor, not private, personal accumulation of wealth, it doesn't function by a credit system. The fuel of capitalism is greed and credit, it promotes these things because they keep it alive.

>>6280295
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out
http://www.reddit.com/r/Communism
http://www.revleft.com/

>>6280293
http://youtu.be/RGbTdfTh7AM

>>6280295
It is precisely the reason that, because of the fact that Joseph Stalin would have done away with these people, then I find a socialist morals abhorrent

I would be much more comfortable in a society which promotes greed then death

>>6280293
Don't let the door hit ya on the way out
http://www.reddit.com/r/Communism
http://www.revleft.com/

>>6280303
Stalinism doesn't have to make an idol our of Stalin's murder, Marxism is not about making idols of people. What matter's is the core of Stalin's relevant praxis and theory, but the point here is that social liberalism is hardly a necessary function of socialism. In fact, it's really a capitalist thing, consumerism promotes degeneracy and rampant sex, and capitalists use social liberalism to distract from socialism.

>>6280311
>Marxism is not about making idols of people
Then why is that what every Marxist state does?

>In fact, it's really a capitalist thing, consumerism promotes degeneracy and rampant sex, and capitalists use social liberalism to distract from socialism.
So you're telling me, that the socialist parties in Europe are secretly crypto capitalists?

also
Then why do ex soviet states have the highest abortion rate in Europe?

>>6280311
>>6280318
>a stalinist discussing with a christian conservative
kill me

>>6280303
>>6280304

>links to youtube and reddit

why are right wingers so predictable?
get the fuck out

>>6280324
Why don't you fuck off to a hug box?

>>6280318
>Then why is that what every Marxist state does?
Not anymore than states which put faces on bills and have statues of famous leaders

>So you're telling me, that the socialist parties in Europe are secretly crypto capitalists?
Yes, absolutely. They're almost all social democrats and revisionists

>>6280318
>Then why do ex soviet states have the highest abortion rate in Europe?
Poverty

>>6280334
Remind me again why there is so much poverty in ex soviet states?

>>6280330
>Not anymore than states which put faces on bills and have statues of famous leaders
Bullshit. The cult of leader is much stronger in communist states - i.e. Mao, Kim, Stalin...
Also - where are you from?

>>6280342
It's cuz of capitalist intrigues comrade! Americans droping potato beetles to starve us and shit!

>>6280330
>Not anymore than states which put faces on bills and have statues of famous leaders
I never said capitalists didn't do this

But you said Marxism is not about making idols of people
Yet every single Marxist state makes idols of people

>>6280212
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=guaRfmY0iWA

if the Orthodox Church has him as a de facto saint (considering all the great things he has done!), then why not the Catholic Church? Stalinist Catholicism is real and it deserves the respect of any other faith/denomination.

Jesus healed the sick.
Stalin healed the sick.
Jesus fed the poor.
Stalin fed the poor.
Jesus added to judaism.
Stalin added to Leninism.
Jesus was a revolutionary leader.
Stalin was a revolutionary leader.
Jesus sends sinners to Hell.
Stalin sends nazis to gulags.

They really aren't very different. Stalin was very Christ-like and deserves a place as a saint and as one of the greatest philosophers and leaders of the 20th century.

>>6280364
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR_anti-religious_campaign_(1921%E2%80%9328)

>>6280364
Here is a real saint you fucking willfully blind idiot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Benjamin_of_Petrograd

Why don't we ask all the martyrs in the Soviet Union if Josef Stalin should be canonized

>>6280375
Czar Nicholas II was canonized. Do you know what HIS death count was?! Do you realize he unnecessarily got Russia involved in WWI and lead to millions of death, through mass poverty and starvation. Now compare this with Stalin. Take out a microscope. Look closely and objectively at what he did, what he stood for, what he fought for and why. Stalin was a saint by these standards. He had the best interest of mankind in mind.

>wanting to emulate a sociopathic mass-murderer

... in which aspects?

>>6280372
>It was never made illegal to be a believer or to have religion, and so the activities of this campaign were often veiled under other pretexts (usually resistance to the regime) that the state invoked or invented in order to justify its activities.[3]

Keep in mind this was written by capitalists, westerners, and anti-Stalinists. Even they recognize that Soviet Russia didn't ban religion. All they did was counter the massive corruption and deviation of the Orthodox Church of the time. They also removed its tax-exempt status. But this in itself isn't exactly the same as burning a church down or banning the utterance of "god" now, is it?

>>6280383
Saint Nicholas didn't murder Christians because they were fucking Christian you dense motherfucker

How the ever loving fuck can an atheist be declared a Saint?

How the fuck des this even begin to make sense?

>>6280387
What crime did St. Benjamin commit that was worthy of execution?

>>6280280
What the fuck is wrong with hedonism you conservative fag? I don't even give a shit about faggots or abortion, hell, I would consider myself as right wing and I see nothing wrong in seeking pleasure.

>2015 and some 'leftists' still worship Stalin
The left needs some shock therapy for it's still in shock and self-denial about the Stalinist horrors.

>Le catholic Stalinism

Holy shit I thought this meme was dead. Aren't we shitposting about Nietzsche now?

>>6280324
Exactly my thoughts, these fucking commies and conservatives make me cringe so hard.

>>6280391
He murdered other groups though. Socialists and leftists were often imprisoned, deported or murdered. (Dostoyevsky--a Christian-- comes to mind). There WAS a Czarist secret police. Stalin never "killed Christians" just for the sake of them being Christians. Most Soviets kept their religion without interference. It was the massive corrupt influence of capitalism, imperialism and feudalism within the church itself that needed to be changed.

St. Stalin has as much right to be a saint as St. Benjamin.

>>6280404
Stalinist horrors = ???

1. People starved.
>there were famines caused by poor weather (natural conditions) and intentionally by kulaks when they burned down crops as a protest to collectivization.

2. They imprisoned people in labor camps!
>these were the kulaks which were treated harshly because you know, they caused people to STARVE in an effort to sell their surplus grain at a profit. **also note: there was massive amounts of anarchists, Nazis, capitalist spies, and counterrevolutionaries along with your typical run-of-the-mill murderer/thief/rapist. There were legitimate criminals in the USSR. Criminals need to be punished or put away somewhere, ok?

3. Things were banned.
>this was the 1940s. Any look at the U.S at the time and you'll find a laundry list of books, movies, and sexual actions that were completely banned here in the Good ole Land of the Free.

>>6280433
captcha: memed

>>6280433
What's your excuse for the purges?

>>6280229
>worlds worst genocidal dictator

If we're talking about dictators responsible for the most deaths, Mao has him beat by tens of millions. If we're talking about worst as in least humane, Hitler has him beat.

>>6280433

hahaha you really believe this bs. I don't think there has ever been a harsher labour camp than Kolyma but I've probably been tricked by the capitalists or something. Also just because the USA did similar things (tenuous) does not somehow make it okay for everyone to just shoot intellectuals. I don't even know why I'm bothering to type this out you have your head so far up your ass in ideology

>>6280342
Mostly because Stalin industrialized the USSR and replaced horses and plows with tractors, really fucked up the economy.

>>6280446
You can't have non-communists running a socialist government. It's like finding out members of Congress are radical jihadists, allied with ISIS or Al Qaida. You have to remove them from power and do something with them. This was a very unstable time and a slap on the wrist doesn't very well stop the flooding in of people who want to overthrow your still very new nation. You have to have purges to maintain a pure ideological leadership.

>>6280354
Every state makes idols of its leaders, I'm talking about Marxist theory.

>>6280433
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Blokhin

This motherfucker, PERSONALLY killed 7,000 poles under a month. He did so on Stalin's orders. Shot them in the back of the head one by one with a pistol before dumping them onto a truck. Everything moved like clockwork day and night.

The Nazis fucking wish they could be this evil.

>>6280372
Stalin turned around and became by far the most pro religion leader of the USSR

>>6280433
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Natural conditions causing mass starvation in fucking Ukraine, the land that could feed the whole fucking planet :D

>>6280465
Weird how almost every single revolutionary bolshevik besides stalin was a non-communist.

>>6280454
if you at least admit that the U.S did the same, then at least you're starting to see things for what they are. The facts are there. The Soviet Union wasn't an infallible perfect state and Stalin was a leader, not a god. If you could read what Stalin had to say about Stalinism, you might be surprised. Just, try to be objective.

>>6280468
Someone calculated it. He would have had to do an execution every 20 minutes to get the job done as fast as he did.

>>6280468
yeah and an estimated 10,000 in his whole career. Dude wore a god damn butchers apron like he was just suiting up for the job

Stalin was the maestro but his entourage had some legit psychopaths in it like Beria and Yezhov

>>6280474
I didn't say it was exclusively natural conditions. I did mention kulaks burning down the crops in protest to collectivization. And then the USSR sent food aide but it wasn't enough.

>>6280468
There's nothing evil in killing Polish criminals.

>>6280491
nah man every 3 minutes

>>6280465
Except most people Stalin killed were guilty of nothing more than being the target of his rampant paranoia.

>>6280474
>the land that could feed the whole fucking planet
With proper land management and farming technology, yes. People in Africa today aren't starving because of poor natural conditions.

>>6280474
plz

>>6280482

did SIMILAR things to a far lesser extent, not the same.

>>6280480
Stalin had a central committee. The Duma! Not advisors, not friends, not henchman. He had a congress which sometimes disagreed with him. This happened. He was not a dictator and he didn't kill everyone who disagreed with him. Purges were carried out against people who were clearly not Marxist-Leninists (like Trotsky), and who allied themselves with the enemy (the Nazis; like Trotsky).

>1930s of the Stalinst Great Purges
As Zizek jokes "One day your on the central committee next day your a non-person"

>>6280468
when you kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people through electric chairs, lynch mobs, false accusations, etc., it's tragic, but no one calls it genocide.

When you do the same to a large group of criminals and Nazis, OH GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING, YOU HAVE TO PUT THEM IN AN ELECTRIC CHAIR, NOT A FIRING SQUAD. AND IT CAN'T BE ALL AT ONCE. THIS IS THE WRONG WAY TO KILL PEOPLE.

>>6280499
My grandmother was there and all i can say to you is that you are retarded. The funny thing is you would be propably already choping wood in taiga in USSR for such a heresy as Catholic Stalinism.

>>6280519

so those people deserved death and torture. very humane of you. What other retarded stuff do you believe?

>>6280508
who decided this? You? Some American capitalist? I honestly want to know who was the judge and jury who looked through all the criminal cases of the Soviet Union and all the instances of purges and decided "yup, they're mostly all innocent, Stalin's evil."

>>6280519
Is this a joke? Stalin killed the majority of the committee, how is its existence proof of anything? And he did kill basically everyone who disagreed with him, even ex allies like bukharin. But to be fair to stalin, the ussr being a dictatorship is the fault of lenin and trotsky who took the power away from the soviets shortly after assuming the power. I'm not even going to bother with the ridiculous propaganda of accusing trotsky of allying with nazis.

>>6280529
>Stalin would have sent YOU to the Gulag
Inevitably said to every single Stalinist in every single argument

>>6280525
wow way to totally miss the point of him linking that
its the fact that one guy did all that with his own hands, pretty ridiculous

>>6280539
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>6280539
And who are you to decide they were guilty?

>>6280532
if you ally with the Nazis to overthrow your government, then yes, you do deserve to be punished or even killed. If your intentions are to harm people, to terrorize and overthrow a government that is otherwise doing fine, then you are a terrorist. Why was it ok to conspire to kill leaders, blow up buildings and institute Fascism when it's done to the Soviet Union?

>>6280542
there were a handful of people who could disagree with him like Molotov, Voroshilov, Mikoyan, and maybe Beria and some top generals like Zhukov and Timoshenko, but his word was law regardless of what "committees" were in place.

>>6280141
>he was actually a good guy guise ;-)~!!!!!!! look at me im such a special snowflake so smurt hes good ;)))pp'h

>>6280519
>he was not a dictator

what even is this who are you where have you been

>>6280570

if anyone allied with the nazis it was because stalins insane policies drove them to it you retarded shit

>I admire Joseph Stalin greatly,
You and the SJWs are what's wrong with the left

>>6280562
>innocents

>>6280210
You're a piece of shit and everyone tells you that in every thread
Enjoy your ideology that amounts to a complete contradiction in terms

>>6280562
I could make the exact same picture with "democracy" instead of "communism" since they all claimed to be democratic.

>>6280580
>history is more complicated than good guys v.s bad guys

A special snowflake? Psshhh. Any Marxist-Leninist would have to understand that he/she is nothing more than a cog in a machine. The "special snowflake" thing is a bourgeois individualist thing. It's mild solipsism. Pure idiocy.

>>6280281
>>6280286
He's completely right. There's nothing socialist about Christianity. Socialism is anti-Christian on multiple levels, and the Catholic Church wouldn't exist in a Communist society simply by definition.

>>6280597
I don't even post here much, I got Catholic Stalinism from here. I used to be more right-wing, but I saw some interesting arguments for it and I looked into it and I was blown away. This thread is literally the first time I have identified as a Catholic Stalnist on this board.

>>6280609
Socialism comes from Christianity, brah. Socialism is just Christianity applied to economics.

>>6280617
You should stop then, there was some idiot that started the idiotic meme and got BTFO in every thread because it's nonsensical and the obvious contradictions involved would give anyone who actually knows a couple things about socialism and Catholicism too much of a headache to ever call them self a Catholic Stalinist.
There's no aspect of Communism that's an improvement over Christianity if you're a Christian. Christianity isn't about murdering class enemies and creating a utopia on Earth, it's about loving all your enemies and suffering through the perpetual sin of this world in hopes of something better in the next life.

Communism is literally Christianity for atheists, and no atheist is truly a Christian.

>>6280621
>Socialism is just Christianity applied to economics.
To a very slight degree you're right, but if you wanted Christian economic doctrines why not just call them Christian economic doctrines?

>>6280210
how do you connect socialism(anti-religious ideal) and religion

>>6280624
Communism isn't an improvement of Christianity, it's a realization of Christian economics. One thing he said that struck me was that Teilhard's Omega Point is pretty much the same thing as Marx's idea of the end of history, just applied on a grander scale.

>>6280633
You don't seem to understand Christianity.

>>6280633
If that's true then why are so many Christians so opposed to communism and why are communists so opposed to Christianity?

>>6280631
Dialectical materialism shouldn't mix with theology anymore than science should, but that doesn't mean the two can't harmonize.

>>6280229
Heard of Genghis Khan he has all of modern time dictators beat in efficiency of war, kills of civilians and war inovations

>>6280642
How can there be harmony when DiaMat calls for the elimination of the Catholic Church because of its historically 'oppressive' role?

>>6280640
Misunderstanding. Just like Amerilard Christians will often be really pro all sorts of anti Christian stuff, whereas Amerilard atheists will actually be more Christian in some regards, but fedoras in others.

>>6280644
Dialectical materialism doesn't call for that, dialectical materialism is a tool of analysis, not a normative philosophy. It's not synonymous with "everything and anything Marx ever said".

>>6280647
Kek, I don't think it's misunderstanding, I think they know what Commies do to Christians. Since when are you a judge of who's a proper Christian? Since being a Christian is believing in Jesus as the son of God I don't think a any atheists are really Christians.

>>6280644
Eliminating religion is treating symptoms instead of the disease.

> Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
>The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

>>6280652
Christians have done bad things to commies, Christians have done bad things to Christians, commies have done bad things to commies.

Being a Christian is knowing that love is God and living in God's grace as much as possible, in conjunction with faith in Christ as God. Both are needed, but even Scripture says the first is the more important.

>>6280655
And you need to believe in God to do those things, which atheists don't do. You seem to be forgetting or deemphasizing pretty much every aspect of Christianity that involves belief.

>>6280502
they were captured polish military and police

>>6280656
No.I'm saying that both love and faith are required to be a Christian, and love is the more important of the two.

>>6280697
>military and police
So criminals.

>>6280770
Eh, I still think that being a Christian means believing in God. Caritas is a desire for the salvation of another, and it's difficult to see how an atheist could want anyone's soul to be saved, since they don't believe in souls or salvation.

Explain to me how atheists are more Christian than Christians.

>>6280777
Primarily requires* not is.

>>6280342
Because there is always poverty after a huge economic collapse, which transitioning from one economic system to another (communism to capitalism in this example) always is. The question here should be - Why is there so much poverty in ex-Communist currently (1989-now) Capitalist Free-Market countries?

>>6280141
http://www.rhizzone.net/forum/post/276241/

>>6280279
Seriously I don't know why so many people think Hitler won an election. The most he got in a real election was thirty percent and after that he just forced his way through history.

>>6280777
They aren't if by Christians you mean something more substantial than people who just apply the term to themselves. If you just mean whatever half-ass who claims the title, they are. Faith is God working through someone, as it the desire to save others; one can work toward this end without even consciously believing in the Christian God, but having some sense of "something" and working to save people (God does all sorts of things that ultimately make people turn to Christ) in many ways without realizing where exactly it all leads through intuitive truth. Whereas someone can superficially claim to believe in Christ, but faith is proven by love, not lip service.

What's your favorite Catholic Stalinist twitter? Here's mine: https://twitter.com/RedMaistre

>>6280210
>Stalinist is compatible with Catholicism
You know I thought this thread was serious for a second

>that feeling when you are the only person in this thread to actually recommend a book

It's almost funny that that fat bastard Zizek was able to turn the demonized figure of Stalin in your consciousness to a lovable old buffoon.

You know how great rhetoricians will often say at the beginning of their speech, "I'm no natural speaker", to plant the idea in the audience's head that the speech following is natural and passionate and not some studies art? Reminds me of Zizek when he talks about "pure ideolgy", for the fact is that the purest ideology is the notion of "pure ideology" itself and that Zizek was able to trick you fools into thinking that he was a revealer or underminer of ideology himself when he is in fact the most shameless shill on the earth is quite sad.

Also, Stalin is an antichrist figure so the guy in this thread talking about Stalinist Catholicism is mixing Christ and Belial. If you admire a strong central power that can impose religion on people then why not admire the old Catholic monarchs rather than a dictator of materialism and atheism, a merciless taskmaster and bureaucrat. The Virgin Mary herself showed up in Portugal in 1917 to tell us that Stalin would be a prick. Heaven itself has told us Catholics what it makes of Stalin and the Reds in general, if the declarations of the popes against socialism and communism were not enough.

>>6280364
This is blasphemous.
You might not even be a Zizek autist. There's a slim chance that you're one of the agents that have been funnelling into the Church over the last century to undermine it.

>>6280141
>I admire Joseph Stalin greatly
D R O P P E D
Maybe you'll suffer the same fate as Stalin's biggest fan, I don't want to throw hopes around, because that would be out of order, but still.. It could happen.

Stalinism and Catholicism are foundamentally incompatible.
All Marxist doctrines place materialism above all else.
Christianity on the other hand, is idealist.

>>6280802
>Faith is God working through someone, as it the desire to save others
Faith is belief.
You seem to be conflating faith, works, and love into one concept, which really doesn't seem to reflect anything like actual doctrine.

>>6280846
>the purest ideology is the notion of "pure ideology" itself
This, so much this

>>6280865
>All Marxist doctrines place materialism above all else.
>Christianity on the other hand, is idealist.
Two statements, both wrong, and all because you didn't start with the greeks. Stas safe kids, you don't want to end up like this traffic accident of a person.

>>6280998
But he's right

>>6280318
>So you're telling me, that the socialist parties in Europe are secretly crypto capitalists?

Dude, have you looked at the policies those parties implement ? They're not crypto-capitalists, they're openly capitalists with a social bent.

>>6280548
It's not an argument, I can't convince someone as blindfolded as you. It's just stating an irony.

>>6280846
>Zizek was able to trick you fools into thinking that he was a revealer or underminer of ideology himself

You've never read Zizek have you? And "pure ideology" is just a figure of of speech like saying something is pure shit, it's not a specific philosophical concept.

>>6281152
>it's not a specific philosophical concept.
This statement is pure ideology. You've been taken in by a crypto-Stalinist.

In any other period in history Stalin would be considered a great man, only western liberals and conservatives who are utter cowards and despise anything serious difficult or violent slander him.

>>6281157
Kek

The only work on Stalin you need to read
http://marxism.halkcephesi.net/Ludo%20Martens/

STALIN DINDU NUFFIN
HE WAZ A GUD BOI. HE WENT TO CHURCH.

>>6280468
This... This is somewhat attractive. I'm the most gentle person on earth, I'm terrified by weapons and so on. I think of killers as holding the weight of guilt or something. If I were to kill someone, say, in a difficult choice situation, even as an accident, like if I ran over someone, I would not be able to sleep for months, it would destroy me. And then there is this guy and he just shoot people in the back all day long for several days. One, two three... Easy as that. He doesn't look like the most easy going person in the world, but I don't think he is tortured by that. Those were not people to him by any means. Or perhaps it is himself who is not a person anymore and just a gear within a mechanism. A well-functioning gear, without no doubts, no philosophy of life or death, no emotion or rationality. He just simply is. Killing people at day, sleeping at night. There is something terrifyingly zen about holding so much power, so much that you're above the world. Of course, it is the struggle for this ultimate power that gets people to kill and die and suffer in between, but he seems to be above suffering. Above politics and above morals, above all questioning, his personal life was what it was.

>>6280468
>>The Nazis fucking wish they could be this evil.
when evil meets beauty

>>6280197
was he all that.
a singer hey. stalin make me a sandwich and do that chorus again in falsetto

>>6281202
you need jesus !!

I really don't care what your personnel opinions are of stalin do you know any good biographies of him and can you recommend them? God /lit/ is worse than tumblr when you mention any dictator they jump into /pol/ reaction mode and assume the whole thread is lost.

>>6281784
>personnel opinions are of stalin
His personnel opinions weren't so good; otherwise he wouldn't have to kill his personnel so often.

>>6281784
>pssssh nothing personnel trot

>>6280141
Behind Closed Doors

The man was not to be admired. He was a charming genocidal maniac.

>>6281784
It's all either bourgeois revisionism or Commie revisionism, that's been settled already ITT.

>>6280342
>correlation, therefore causation :^)

OP, you are comedy gold.

>>6281784
god damn it man how many times must I tell you

NY Times:

>''Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar,'' by the British journalist and novelist Simon Sebag Montefiore, reverses this approach: it pays minimal attention to Stalin's politics and concentrates on the man and his immediate associates. This was made possible by the author's access to previously secret private documents, including Stalin's notes and messages, as well as by interviews with the surviving offspring of his closest companions. In addition, Montefiore has made an exhaustive study of the published literature. The result is the first intimate portrait of a man who had more lives on his conscience than Hitler and yet, according to opinion polls, is regarded by Russians even today as a giant, the fourth greatest human being in world history.

>I admire Joseph Stalin greatly

From the other thread: >>/lit/thread/S6282261
>Capitalism is the best system we currently have to implement.
Re pictured
>The only major problem is with the excesses; it goes too far.
It is designed specifically to support classes. Some, the upper classes, the comforted classes, support this sort of thing. They're prejudiced creeps that don't think too hard and believe "equality" is a dirty word. "Excesses" you say? Capitalism doesn't cause that directly, but it does cause corruption. Also take note that they like to turn it around and all people's sex lives corrupt or excessive while ignoring the corruption excessiveness of the wealthy.
>If we found a way to restrain capitalism we would be living in a bretty good society. Easier said than done though.
We know damn well what can make it *better*. It's socialism. Add just a little, strong unionism, social security, a GI bill to put people in higher education tuition free, and you get a pretty comfy economy. Add even more and it gets better. That was a progressive liberal solution that worked really good.
Ah but wait. The mechanisms for corruption were all still in place. The high taxed billionaires (or their kids) bought politicians favors to slash their taxes and bust the unions they felt were eating *their* money, etc.

No, capitalism ought to go, and as soon as possible. The times are critical.

>>6280141

Watch La danza de la realidad by Jodorowksy

>>6281821
10/10

>>6283572
>that fucking pic
LOL
O
LOL

>>6284340
>>6280511

>>6284356
to;dnr

>>6284375
It negates your capitalist Chicago rag sheet
"SIX MILLION" Ye-no.

>>6284391
How many million died then?

>>6280846
>Actually a Catholic
>>6280997
>>6281152
>>6281155
Clearly have no understanding of Zizek at all, the fact that you dismiss Zizek as some crypto-Stalinist is plain sleazy and shows you have no knowledge where Zizek is coming from and have just only read memes of Zizek on /lit/.

Here go read:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/althusser/#TheIde
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/althusser/1970/ideology.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavoj_%C5%BDi%C5%BEek#Ontology.2C_ideology.2C_and_the_Real

>>6283560
fat cat is boss cat

>>6280631
The same way slavs do.

>admiring a bank robbing child molester

>>6280631
There is no need to connect them. Communism was always a religion. You can talk of abstract socialism that never existed, but actually-existing socialism was always religious. An average person in USSR was more religious than my Catholic parents are. If you ask my Catholic parents if there is a God, they will be embarassed by the question. In the USSR people were afraid Stalin can read their thoughts, so they were afraid even to think "anti-revolutionary" thoughts, let alone say them to anyone. Furthermore, even Marx recognized Jesus Christ as "the first communsit". Communism is a Christian heresy. It's the idea that the Christian ideal can be arrived at without waiting for the afterlife and without evoking the supernatural. In practice, it is more religious than, say, Catholicism. Even the Communists I personally know are all deeply religious (they are not objectively looking at Communism, but accepting it as a priori truth).

Capitalism is actually a religion, too. Anarchism is the same. I reject everything personally. All political systems, including anarchism (the lack of a system). It is all shit. I do not believe in any form of collectivism or individualism. I'm a solipsist.

>>6284628
I forgot to add that Communism is today the religion most often practiced by Academics. Universities are the churches of that religion.

>>6284628
Every time you conflate the two you're getting more and more heretical. Stop telling your parishioners they're compatible.

>>6284628
Communism is nothing like a religion, at least not today when it's more individually defined than through a party and you can continually shift and add to your perspective. It's comparable to a religion like Wicca.

>>6284446
Are you implying no one who writes about ideology could be pushing an ideology?

>>6284628
>There will never be another wholehearted rejection of liberation theology giving me the opportunity to go to your local bishop and have you excommunicated like the sleazy red Antichrist cocksuker you are
>there will never be another red scare in the United States giving me the legal wiggle room to beat people like you to death with a brick
Oh to live in simpler times

>>6285215
Honestly, what he's saying doesn't even sound like liberation theology. He's literally advocating Stalinism and telling his fellow parishioners that Communism is entirely compatible with every aspect of Church doctrine. If you trace his IP and shoot his bish an email you could probably get him excommunicated anyway.

>>6285223
You're right, I don't know why I said liberation theology

Brain fart

>>6284628
Seriously, how many Popes and Perfects for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith would we have to quote denouncing, not just the idea of communism, but the doctrine of communism for you to except the fact that you are wrong?

Every Pope who has been Pope has denounced this antichrist ideology every time they are asked about it

Show me a Pope who hasn't explicitly denounced communism in the last 60 something years

Even Mikael Gorbachev admitted that Saint John Paul killed communism and the Soviet Union in Europe

>>6285227
>>6285223
>>6285215
You don't need to have him excommunicated by a bishop

He has excommunicated himself

>The League of Militant Atheists[1] (Russian: Coюз вoинcтвyющих бeзбoжникoв Soyuz voinstvuyushchikh bezbozhnikov); Society of the Godless (Oбщecтвo бeзбoжникoв Obshchestvo bezbozhnikov); Union of the Godless (Coюз бeзбoжникoв Soyuz bezbozhnikov), was an atheistic and antireligious organization of workers and intelligentsia that developed in Soviet Russia under the influence of the ideological and cultural views and policies of the Soviet Communist Party from 1925 to 1947.[2] It consisted of Party members, members of the Komsomol youth movement, those without specific political affiliation, workers and military veterans.[3]

>Guided by Bolshevik principles of antireligious propaganda and party's orders with regards to religion, the League aimed at exterminating religion in all its manifestations and forming an anti-religious scientific mindset among the workers. It propagated atheism and scientific achievements, conducted 'individual work' (a method of sending atheist tutors to meet with individual believers to convince them of atheism, which could be followed up with harassment if they failed to comply).[4][5][6]

>The League's slogan was "Struggle against religion is a struggle for socialism", which was meant to tie in their atheist views with economy, politics, and culture. One of the slogans adopted at the 2nd congress was "Struggle against religion is a struggle for the five-year plan!"[7] The League had international connections; it was part of the International of Proletarian Freethinkers and later of the Worldwide Freethinkers Union.

>The League was a "nominally independent organization established by the Communist Party to promote atheism." It published newspapers, journals, and other materials that lampooned religion; it sponsored lectures and films; it organized demonstrations and parades; it set up antireligious museums; and it led a concerted effort telling Soviet citizens that religious beliefs and practices were "wrong" and "harmful", and that "good" citizens ought to embrace a scientific, atheistic worldview.[8]

>The League of Militant Atheists aided the Soviet government in killing clergy and committed believers.[48] The League also made it a priority to remove religious icons from the homes of believers.[49] Under the slogan, "the Storming of Heaven," the League of Militant Atheists pressed for "resolute action against religious peasants" leading to the mass arrest and exile of many believers, especially village priests. By 1940, "over 100 bishops, tens of thousands of Orthodox clergy, and thousands of monks and lay believers had been killed or had died in Soviet prisons and the Gulag."[50]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Militant_Atheists

Revelations from the Russian Archives

ANTI-RELIGIOUS CAMPAIGNS

The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools. Actions toward particular religions, however, were determined by State interests, and most organized religions were never outlawed.

The main target of the anti-religious campaign in the 1920s and 1930s was the Russian Orthodox Church, which had the largest number of faithful. Nearly all of its clergy, and many of its believers, were shot or sent to labor camps. Theological schools were closed, and church publications were prohibited. By 1939 only about 500 of over 50,000 churches remained open.

After Nazi Germany's attack on the Soviet Union in 1941, Joseph Stalin revived the Russian Orthodox Church to intensify patriotic support for the war effort. By 1957 about 22,000 Russian Orthodox churches had become active. But in 1959 Nikita Khrushchev initiated his own campaign against the Russian Orthodox Church and forced the closure of about 12,000 churches. By 1985 fewer than 7,000 churches remained active. Members of the church hierarchy were jailed or forced out, their places taken by docile clergy, many of whom had ties with the KGB.

Campaigns against other religions were closely associated with particular nationalities, especially if they recognized a foreign religious authority such as the Pope. By 1926, the Roman Catholic Church had no bishops left in the Soviet Union, and by 1941 only two of the almost 1,200 churches that had existed in 1917, mostly in Lithuania, were still active. The Ukrainian Catholic Church (Uniate), linked with Ukrainian nationalism, was forcibly subordinated in 1946 to the Russian Orthodox Church, and the Autocephalous Orthodox Churches of Belorussia and Ukraine were suppressed twice, in the late 1920s and again in 1944.

Attacks on Judaism were endemic throughout the Soviet period, and the organized practice of Judaism became almost impossible. Protestant denominations and other sects were also persecuted. The All-Union Council of Evangelical Christian Baptists, established by the government in 1944, typically was forced to confine its activities to the narrow act of worship and denied most opportunities for religious teaching and publication. Fearful of a pan-Islamic movement, the Soviet regime systematically suppressed Islam by force, until 1941. The Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union that year led the government to adopt a policy of official toleration of Islam while actively encouraging atheism among Muslims.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/anti.html

>Now and only now, when people are being
eaten in famine-stricken areas, and hundreds, if not thousands, of corpses lie on the roads, we can (and therefore must) pursue the removal of church property with the most frenzied and ruthless energy and not hesitate to put down the least opposition.

>I think that it is advisable for us not to touch Patriarch Tikhon himself, even though he undoubtedly headed this whole revolt of slave-holders. Concerning him, the State Political Administration [GPU] must be given a secret directive that precisely at this time all communications of this personage must be monitored and their contents disclosed in all possible accuracy and detail. Require Dzerzhinsky and Unshlikht personally to report to the Politburo about this weekly

Lenin
Original Russian

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ae3bkhu1.gif
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ae3bkhu2.gif
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ae3bkhu3.gif
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ae3bkhu4.gif

>>6280141

He had around 50 million of his people murdered, ordered a few more million to die due to his tactical genius in a war, and was so feared no one dared to call a doctor or enter his room when he got a seizure and died.
That's all you need to know, really.

>>6285394
>Although his guards thought that it was strange not to see him awake at his usual time, they were strictly instructed not to bother him and left him alone the entire day. At around 10 p.m., he was discovered by Peter Lozgachev, the Deputy Commandant of Kuntsevo, who entered his bedroom to check up on him and recalled the scene of Stalin lying on his back on the floor of his room beside his bed wearing pyjama bottoms and an undershirt with his clothes soaked in stale urine.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>6280259
Hey, what if the pope one day said you could? It's perfectly possible.

>>6285394
>He had around 50 million of his people murdered
Yeah, fuck the police, let's just asspull numbers like a hardcore motherfucker.

>>6286458
If it would have been possible it would have happened

>>6286486
How many million did he kill then?

>>6286542
>How many million did he kill then?
Personally? Probably zero.

Can you extrapolate deaths in U.S. prisons and say that 'G.W.Bush killed those people'?

>>6286556
I did not imply personally

How many people did he order killed for reasons that would be considered a violation of their human rights

fucking faggot you knew what I meant

>Can you extrapolate deaths in U.S. prisons and say that 'G.W.Bush killed those people'?
No, because prisoners in the US prison system are given the best healthcare possible, aren't worked to death in a labor camp, and aren't shot in the back of the head because lol you're a reactionary

>>6280141
For being one of the most well known people of the twentieth century, not so much is known about his personal life. He was a secretive man.

There are few objective books about the man. But some historians have tried in various degrees of success. My favorite is Geoffrey Roberts' book "stalin's wars"

You should read Stalin's own works as well.

Also, he was a inhumane bastard. Don't admire him you sick faggot.

>>6286556
>>How many million did he kill then?
>Personally? Probably zero.

well he did personally kill one of his wives, but i agree his overrall body count is overrated

>>6286573
>No, because prisoners in the US prison system are given the best healthcare possible, aren't worked to death in a labor camp, and aren't shot in the back of the head because lol you're a reactionary

what about prisoners in guantanamo bay and other secret cia prisons around the world?

>>6286913
You still haven't answered my question friend
:^)

>what about prisoners in guantanamo bay and other secret cia prisons around the world?
It does not violate prisoners of war human rights to hold them captive

Now please tell me how many people did Joseph Stalin order killed for reasons that would be considered a violation of their human rights

>>6286542
Why is John Paul II so based?

>>6287450
That's SAINT JOHN PAUL THE GREAT YOU FILTHY SCHISMATIC HERETIC

I bet you're a fucking Serb you fucking faggot

>>6287461
Anon please calm down your Christian love

>>6286573
>prisoners in the US prison system are given the best healthcare possible
Let's not let the truth get in the way of obtuse off-topic babbling.

>I refuse to answer the question

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Never change communists
Never change

>>6287461
John Paul did nothing _____

>>6287766
He killed that faggot commie empire I'll tell you hwat

>>6280303
>I would be much more comfortable in a society which promotes greed then death
Then you really, really aren't taking the Christianity thing seriously. You will burn for this. Anyway you misrepresent the actual history. You will also burn for this. Just saying, they are your rules.

>>6287934
Please tell me more about my religion
Where do these rules say this?

>>6280449
>muh hecatiptillion
http://monthlyreview.org/commentary/did-mao-really-kill-millions-in-the-great-leap-forward
Every time until you read it.

>>6284340
http://rationalrevolution.net/special/library/tottlefraud.pdf

>mfw no one will just tell me how many millions of people stalin killed?

>>6286486

Telling the precise numbers is impossible, because unlike those of the nazis', the crimes of Stalin's regime were never properly investigated and it was all swept under the rug. Ordinary citizens were taken from their homes in the dead of the night and they just disappeared, leaving no records behind. The witnesses and neighbors soon found themselves disappearing too. A lot of information was acquired from the few labor camp survivors who got to know their fellow prisoners and could verify that "this guy and that guy didn't run to America, like they say, he was there in the gulag".

International researchers cautiously put the overall death toll between 15-30 million. But that's only what can be somewhat reliably confirmed. The actual number is higher, possibly even twice that. And it's not even including the losses from the war or the genocides he had his troops carry out in countries under the Soviet rule.

>>6288517
many many million

>>6288804
Kek

bumpo