/lit/ - Literature

WHO IS "/lit/"?

DEFINE "WORSHIP".

>/lit/ is one person
Okay kid

Because to do otherwise would mean the liberal left have to admit they were wrong from the start.

>>6251270
Why does OP make sweeping generalizations?

He's right, though. They had to be oppressed pretty harshly to turn their peaceful religion into a call to arms.

>>6251296
>liberal left
that term

>>6251270
He only pointed out some of the contributing factors that can help create these monsters. In other words he's actually someone who is pointing out how to prevent further attacks.

Did you think we were't going to see that? Did you think we weren't going to watch the video? Why do you have to shitpost? Also I was unaware that /lit/ worshipped Chomsky.

>>6251381
Sp we should allow them to do what they want without observation, thus letting them secretly plan attacks. Maybe we should just ban Islam and deport them all.

charlie hebdo was mossad

>>6251302

ACTUALLY, HE IS NOT "SWEEPINGLY GENERALIZING"; HE ONLY ASKED WHY DOES "/lit/" "WORSHIP" HIM, WHICH IS NOT EQUIVALENT TO ASKING WHY DOES EVERY PERSON IN /lit/ "WORSHIP" HIM; THE QUESTION IS: TO WHOM IS HE REFERRING WITH "/lit/"?

>>6251270
Remove kebab
Remove kebab
Remove kebab

He isn't wrong

>person does evil
>"Better blame someone besides who is doing the evil."

Because free will ends as soon as you lay down the prayer mat.

>>6251468

>>6251381
>contributing factors that can help create these monsters.

Oh no, he grew up a rich London playboy in the most tolerant neighborhood in the country! Pray for poor, set-upon Jihadi John!

And before London, he lived in Kuwait, where nationals have the highest standards of living IN THE WORLD! Clearly the Islamophobia of a vacation resort country was too much for the poor boy!

Was it because the big bad British government didn't let him keep his pet leopard when he moved there?

Thank you, Noam Chomsky, socialist extraordinaire, for telling the poor rabble how hard it is to be the son of rich millionaires from NORTH FUCKING KENSINGTON!

>>6251468
>implying that evil is actually a concept that is inherent in people, and that people's character, behavior and actions aren't shaped by the society they grow up and live in

>>6251270
First of all, he's not making excuses for them. He just recognise that people aren't intrinsically evil, and don't just do bad things out of nowhere. There are causes. Do you really think ordinary people just read the Quran and stand up and say "welp better go kill some people!"?

>>6251468
...he didn't blame anyone. It's clear they did evil, but that doesn't mean you can't analyse the development that lead to those acts to prevent further atrocities.

>>6251477
>>6251392
wat

>>6251477
That's a cheetah, not a leopard.

I'll never understand people that get so goddamn worked up. Like this guy: >>6251477

What's the purpose of it? Chomsky, wrong or not, is at least trying to analyze the fucking thing. Contributing factors include more than just the guy's upbringing, obviously. There are a shit ton of Muslims in the world, if they were all extremist or extremist sympathizers then Europe would just be a fucking fireball right now. Why censor discussions of these events? Why get so upset, unless someone you personally know was killed, and even then you getting upset isn't going to do much good.

>>6251498

> Do you really think ordinary people just read the Quran and stand up and say "welp better go kill some people!"?

>this is what /pol/ actually believes

>>6251477
Why are the two mutually exclusive? If you think Chomsky is a terrorist apologist you're just wrong.

The apologetics for non-white savagery are getting less and less credible as the savagery gets worse and worse.

The mob can't be distracted by MSNBC photo doctoring and misled by Chomsky "IT'S ALL WHITEY'S FAULT" horseshit anymore. Finally we're gonna get rid of this giant ingrate shitstain on western culture.

>>6251416
Everything was Mossad

>>6251538
>Chomsky, wrong or not, is at least trying to analyze the fucking thing.

How? By parroting the same BC bullshit garbage that every other tumblrista recites to themselves every night?

Watch out, it's an Islamophobe!

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dutch-mayor-to-fellow-muslims-if-you-cant-take-a-joke-then-fck-off/
>“It is incomprehensible that you can turn against freedom,” Mayor Aboutaleb said in Dutch, according to the Daily Mail. “But if you don’t like freedom, for heaven’s sake pack your bags and leave. If you do not like it here because some humorists you don’t like are making a newspaper, may I then say you can fuck off.”

What a hateful monster. But luckily the rest of Northern Europe is more "tolerant" than that muslim. How's that working out for them? Wait, I know! The smaller the number of ISIS recurits (who go to Syria and BURN OTHER MUSLIMS ALIVE), the more privileged you are! The ISIS recruits are a badge of honor! Who cares if they're committing genocide against multiple populations? We need to stop oppressing muslims who just want to peacefully stick other muslims in a cage and burn them alive when they're not shooting up cartoonists' offices, including the muslim security guard who was protecting them!

We need to fucking blow away all these towel heads away before they invade the U.S.A! It's seems like a true patriot can't even voice his opinion in this gay communist country anymore. If I wasn't on disability I would be blasting those brown skin sandal wearing fags back to hell.
OUR VALUES ARE UNDER ATTACK!
IT'S TIME TO GET AMERICA BACK ON TRACK!

>>6251568
/pol/ pls

>>6251620
satire?

>>6251568
>non-white
>>>/pol/

>>6251571
u fuckin tell em smat qualk! we go hard in paint becuase these libel idiots dont understand what it meajns to liek freedom democracy and freedom. we are really living in a world with evil government but we need people like us to tell the idiots like chomsky to go away and back into office./ fucking arab IDIOTS!

>>6251270
idiot stupid worthless man old! stipid poster go somep,ace reddit

>>6251571
top lel. I wonder if this person is for real or just a master troll, either way I find it entertaining in an ironic sense.

>>6251270
He is right, it doesn't take a whole lot of intelligence to see this. There is just this common sentiment not to talk about the perspectives of 'evil' within the US. It goes hand in hand with fetishized patriotism.

>>6251571
>sarcasm
>irrelevant points
>pictographs
>meaningless regurgitated stock phrases eg tumblr

Gee, I wonder who was behind this post.

>>6251620
You got that right! Some one of my buddies just got arrested just for calling the white house and asking for a copy of Barack H̲u̲s̲s̲e̲i̲n̲ Obama's birth certificate. It won't be long before they start burning down our churches, I got my .38 loaded whating on Mr.Obama whenever he's ready.

>>6251659
>>6251620
Isn't parody supposed to be funny?

>>6251639
>>6251620
>>6251659
Amen! We'll get those dirty rats!

>>6251659
are you racist?

>>6251674
It's not about race its about values, something you wouldn't understand.

>>6251686
>values


those White American , Christian values

>>6251645
>He is right, it doesn't take a whole lot of intelligence to see this. There is just this common sentiment not to talk about the perspectives of 'evil' within the US. It goes hand in hand with fetishized patriotism.
Yeah the Islamists that killed those satirists for slandering Islam and Jihadist John beheader who wants to establish a holy caliphate were all products of Western Imperialism.

>>6251778
No one said that.

>>6251733
So how many Filipinos go around teaching university classes on how the poor misunderstood American soldiers were just products of Samar imperialism lashing out against their oppressors?

I don't think Chomsky even thinks anymore before he says such things. He just tries to analyse in every situation in which ways he can blame the Western world and go with that.

From the moment he actually excused a attempt to deny the Rwanda Genocide because he literally cannot conceive any source of evil not being the United States, it has clear that he became demented.

>>6251831
You missed the part where he denied the Cambodian genocide for the exact same reasons 20 years earlier.

And no, Lit likes Zizek more than Chomsky.

Essential anti-chomsky literature:
http://www.paulbogdanor.com/chomskyhoax.html

Context is not defence you illiterate swine

>>6251568
Yeah. Like, I can see why some of these arguments might have seemed plausible in 1955, but apparently Boomers can't let go of their salad days.

>>6251897
Can I have a source for that?

>>6251270
God I hate Chomsky so much. The only thing he was ever right about was Viet Nam.

>>6251897
lol he has never denied the Cambodian genocide

I dare you to cite him explicitly doing so.

It's ironic that a willingness to ignore the ills of 'the other' and an extreme critical stance towards one's own nation/culture produces the most rigorous method of fixing that nation's faults. Chomsky doesn't have time for criticising anyone but the US because he knows that it's the US which can be bettered most easily. That's what criticism is for, in his opinion; it needs to be constructive. He doesn't complain for the sake of it. All this time he was accused of being unpatriotic lol. It's the people who refuse to recognize their own faults who are unpatriotic, because they will never attempt to better their nation by addressing those faults.

>>6251940
Who are you talking to and what are you talking about?

>>6252011
>expecting someone to cite claims made against chomsky

>>6252051
Is this whole 'denied Cambodian genocide' thing a meme?

>>6252060
well you see at the time of my post, based on the evidence available, I was right.

>>6251270
>yeah yeah, I mean sure he beheaded a few people and is a part of a group that's primary existence is to bring about the apocalypse by ethnically cleansing everyone who isn't them
>But you wanna know who is REALLY to blame here?
God I fucking hate this cunt.

>>6252084

So why do you think these people are doing these things then? Is it because they hate america and they want your freedumbs and your guns? Or is it because they're psychotic and born evil and their god is wrong?

Obviously it has nothing to do with decades of hamfisted, brutal and illegal US intervention in the middle east, which has radicalised people worldwide, that would be unthinkable, so it must be something else.

Maybe they're all possessed by demons?

>>6251296
You can't be liberal and left. That's a direct contradiction.

>>6252092
So why do you think these americans are doing these things then? Is it because they hate mudskins and they want your sand castles and your bombs? Or is it because they're psychotic and born evil and their god is wrong?

Obviously it has nothing to with decades of hamfisted, brutal and illegal british imperial atrocities in the thirteen colonies. which has radicalized settlers nationwide, that would be unthinkable, so it must be something else

HURDDUR LET'S FOLLOW THE BLAME CHAIN BACK TO THE NEANDERTHALS

>>6252092
ISIS has existed from 1999.
The US intervention in 2003 lead to the civil war of 2006-2007 after which the US took a more active role in Iraq and calmed tensions by bringing about the Sunni Awakening. The years prior to our leaving the country saw decreasing levels of violence by the year, and the insurgency was losing ground across the board.
So no, you're wrong. If you want a catalyst for what caused the Sunni revolt in Anbar that was coopted by ISIS, that would be Maliki and his sectarian policies that alienated 1/3 of Iraq and led towards large scale resentment and repression of a large minority in Iraq leading towards ISIS being able to work their way back into the country. As well as that the Syrian civil war gave them a breeding ground where they could revitalize their group.
That doesn't change the fact that the actions he is taking are actions that are wrong in and of themselves, and any human being should be able to objectively identify the wanton murder, enslavement, and rape committed by ISIS as morally wrong regardless of anything prior to those events, and any attempt to obfuscate these acts by trying to blatantly politicize the issue to advance your own world views about US overseas policies makes you a shitty human being without an ounce of actual compassion.
Also you're a faggot.

>>6252084
>being this thick
see >>6252042

>>6251270
>Why does /lit/ worship this professional excuse-maker for mass murderers and Islamofascists?

Because for many of us, our academic stipends depend on parroting left-wing political views. We are like dogs trained to bark "Racism! Sexism! Fascism! Ismism!" on command.

>>6251362
>>6252099

What a cunt face, do you look for a bundle of stick when some one says faggot too?

>>6252060
Yes. People just repeat what they hear other people say. Its easy. Its convenient. It makes him look terrible.

WHAT HAPPENED
In the political economy of human rights by chomsky and Edward Herman they look at the many claims being made about Cambodia and found many of them exaggerated and unsourced.
They looked for reliable sources and got it from the US State Department. The cited State Department sources putting deaths in the tens of thousands, perhaps more.
They pointed out we had no business complaining considering everything we had done to Cambodia not long ago, which had probably laid the groundwork for fanaticism to take over.
They then committed their real crime: they went and compared the coverage of Cambodia, something we had no influence over, to the coverage of Indonesia's invasion and occupation of East Timor, something we very much could influence as 90% of their arms were American made. Cambodia got hysterical coverage and East Timor got zero, chomsky even paid for Timorese to be brought out to America and brought them around various newspapers and tv stations and nobody cared.
You will notice nobody ever brings this up when they smear him. That's the point, we must not think about or consider this comparison. The smear is a powerful propaganda tool to shut down critical thought.

It is a question of morality.
1) We can't do anything about Cambodia but we are directly responsible for East Timor. Which then deserves our attention?
2) who are we to criticise anyone in Cambodia given what we had just been doing to it, which probably helped set the stage too.
3) all the super patriots beating their chests go strangely quiet when the historical record enters 1979 - the year America began aiding the Khmer because Vietnam invaded to stop the slaughter.

>>6252113

>he thinks the problem has only existed since 1999.

Seriously kid, you're going to really embarrass yourself unless you stop.

PROTIP: ISIS is a direct descendent of al qaeda. you should be looking a lot further back.

Or you can just keep on accepting your Fox news version of events, I don't give a fuck how ignorant you are.

>>6252113
>invading Iraq calmed tensions
Lolwut

>>6252113
>before our withdrawal violence was decreasing
Its like I'm in backwards land

>>6252130
No, ISIS is actually not a direct descendant of Al Qaeda, they swore allegiance and directly joined them in 2004 when they became AQI.
But way to not respond to a single point, and instead try to get out of being called out as wrong by ad hominems.

>>6252121
>trying to defend ignorance

>>6252140
Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of you being wrong.

>>6251479
Lefties actually believe this.

>>6251270

Pando's War Nerd (formerly of The Exiled) has a pretty good take on the whole "Jihadi John was soooo oppressed" angle being pushed:

http://pando.com/2015/02/27/the-war-nerd-why-did-mohammed-emwazi-become-jihadi-john/

>>6251571
>according to the Daily Mail.

>>6251479
>this is what someone actually thinks

>>6252107

What the fuck are you talking about m8? You're not half as clever as you think you are.

>>6252141

I said you had to look a lot further back you fucking retard, but there is literally no point trying to reason with your brand of uneducated filth. You may as well go back to oiling your guns in your panic room, but first you'll respond to this post because then you'll think you won on the internet.

Carry on.

>>6252171
>accusing anyone of being a Marxist or Leninist in a chomsky thread
Your ignorance is showing

>>6252180
Maybe /lit/ just isn't for you.
You should try /b/ a little bit longer before you can make it through a sentence without being able to throw a pejorative into it.

>>6252192

Well done.

>>6251477
His family is of Yemeni origin, bruh. They're a lot less into gulf-state luxury.

>>6252121
We're not splitting hairs here, you're just completely ignorant regarding the concepts you're using.

>>6252107
No, it's because of their oil

...seriously?

I generally like Chomsky but I find he takes the anti-Westernism and the Muslim apologetics way, way, way too far. Yes, the West does a lot of bad things but look at Gandhi; the fact that the West controls a lot of global resources and exercises this control not-completely-fairly, doesn't justify running around slaughtering people who merely insulted you. Insulting someone isn't grounds for murder.

>>6252060
>>6252051
>>6252011

I'm not that guy, but I've never heard of Chomsky denying it, but I DO remember he got a lot of flak for what he DID say.

I do recall him saying some limp wrist justification for what the Khmer Rogue did (he extends this line of thinking to the Spanish Revolution ), which is, of course, absurd. I do remember Chomsky getting a lot of shit from Historians that labeled him a notorious reductionist; something that he hasn't quite shaken off.

One of the things that interests ME, in particular, is that Chomsky ripped Hitchens apart about him supporting Interventionist foreign policy, which I kind of agree with; however, there's a bit of hypocrisy here. About twenty years prior (to his rebuke of Hitchens) he shit on the "non-critical analysis" of the Cambodian genocide, citing refugee accounts. This is bizarre since Hitchens didn't ALWAYS support Interventionist rhetoric, in fact, he believed in the contrary UP UNTIL after the Gulf War. For those of you who don't know, Hitchens was a journalist, and was in the war zone. It was the Kurdish rebels * refugees that convinced him to rethink his thoughts on the whole situation. Which is EXACTLY what happened to Chomsky.

In addition, Chomsky warns of clinging to ideology dogmatically, but has clung to the same sociopolitical ideals since he was twelve (with no known revision), which is weird to me.

Chomsky is pretty insightful about a number of things, but damn the man has said some stupid/weird shit.

>>6252130

You could go EVEN FURTHER and see the Middle East has had beef with Secular thinking for CENTURIES. Shit is whack yo

>>6252038
>being right about supporting totalitarian dictatorship of North Vietnam, even shutting up his mouth about the myriad of human rights abuses that followed the American withdrawal, including the deaths of hundreds of thousands in reeducation camps and boat people trying to flee

>>6252187
>i support a bunch of Marxist-Leninist regimes, but i promise you i am not a commie because i said so!

i fugging HATE you libral cunts

>>6252113
>that would be Maliki and his sectarian policies that alienated 1/3 of Iraq

Maliki was our guy. That isn't to say that every action of his was ordered by us, but he rose to prominence and consolidated power in the first place largely because of our encouragement and support.

He was preceded by Bremer/the CPA, whose shortsighted de-Ba'athification efforts contributed a great deal to the Sunni marginalization and resentment that intensified under Maliki. We had plenty to do with this, unfortunately.

>>6251270
But he's right
>Islamofascists
Please, stop.

>>6251270
>Why does /lit/ worship this professional excuse-maker for mass murderers and Islamofascists?
You're confused: Noam is /against/ the American Empire.

>>6251639
I really did read it in his voice

>>6252496
Is he? Or is his problem just with the content of the current American Empire?

If the "Empire" was exporting socialism, would he have a problem with it? He never had much problem with the Soviet Empire, after all...

>>6252488
I wouldn't say he was "our guy", if I remember right we did put whatever political pressure we had trying to counter the rise of Sadr, and attempted to engineer a takeover by Hashimi.
But its just that he's an Iraqi official who was democratically elected at the ballet booth and we couldn't go knocking him out of power blatantly, so we resigned ourselves to working with him.
I would say the de-Ba'athification would have been insignificant had it not been for the Sunni revolt. I mean literally all Maliki had to do in order to secure Anbar was to follow through with the Son's of Iraq. How a person could fuck that is beyond my comprehension as a human being.

>>6252508
Just go

>>6251270
Chomsky always pulls baseless opinions out of his arse, about topics or places he has no idea about.
https://euobserver.com/social/31018

>>6251270
>people spreading this myth that Jihadi John was a poor kid who was harassed by security services for no reason
ITS BECAUSE HE WAS TRYING TO JOIN AL SHABAAB
HE WAS DETAINED MULTIPLE TIMES TRYING TO JOIN FUCKING AL SHABAAB
Holy shit, if I hear another person say this I'll have a stroke.

>these faggots think generalizations are "bad"

Why does anybody listen to this revolting old rat? William F Buckley Jr put him in his place half a century ago.

>>6252508
>He never had much problem with the Soviet Empire, after all...
Yes, he did, you idiot

>>6252541
>Europe can claim with some justification that Turkey has not satisfied all of the human rights conditions. On the other hand, I don't really think this is the reason. ... I think it is plain racism
Pretty sure he's right. If you go to the steets in Germany and ask people whether Turkey should join the EU, people usually don't give a fuck about human rights. They just don't want muslims.

>>6251468
>Using the term 'evil' as if it's actually useful to explain why people do things and why things happen

I wish politics hadn't become so dumbed down. All these edgy teens with their strawmen discussions and use of ideology as fashion labels.

>>6251270
I agree with Chomsky here, and I rarely do otherwise. And he's not making excuses, stop being so reactive.

>>6251270
The bottom line is Emwazi beheaded an innocent man because he didn't follow his religion. End of analysis.

Being treated like shit doesn't excuse you from committing despicable acts.

>>6253755
>excuse
there's that word again

>>6253755
>Being treated like shit doesn't excuse you from committing despicable acts.

Unless of course some Saudi cunts crash a plane into your city so you go and cluster bomb a marketplace in Baghdad. That kind of despicable act is perfectly acceptable and it's unamerican to suggest otherwise.

>>6253755
>Being treated like shit doesn't excuse you from committing despicable acts.
But he wasn't even treated like shit.
He tried to join Al Shabaab and security forces stopped him. Chomsky is literally talking out his ass.

>>6251468
>incentives don't exist
>free will means people make decisions spontaneously and unpredictably