/lit/ - Literature

I think they need to put the pens down, stop writing god-awful romance fiction which represents their stale sexual fantasies and get back in the kitchen and make my sandwich.

A mixed bag. I'm all for the ones that want actual equality, but the ones who want a female centric society rather than a male centric one are a problem.

I think all girls should get into feminism, or at least try it once. I really like feminist teen porn and think more of it should be produced!

Feminism in a nutshell
>we want equal rights
>we want equal rights by discriminating against men
>we want equal rights, to discriminate against men, and to have the same liberties as before
>we not only want equal rights, to discriminate against men, and have the same liberties as before, but we also want to institute a blatantly sexist policy in the work place both objectifying women and degrading men

Hmmmm sounds fool proof.

>>622069
>implying most or even a large portion of feminists believe anything like this

boy it sure is butthurt /b/-tard in here

I'm down with it. I just want to see their reactions when they have to sign up for selective service.

>>622075
Actually, I've talked to a lot of feminists. Most of them were okay with Selective Service.

Besides it's not like dudes are happy with Selective Service.

oh boy, this again.

>>622075
lol women in the army

>>622081

>>622073

Yeah, this. What do I think of the feminist movement? I think most people on 4chan haven't a clue about it.

Egalitarianism is the way to go.

>>622073
>implying mandating women in the work place isnt as blatantly sexist as discriminating against them
>implying female only gyms are not exactly as sexist as the now abolished male only gyms
>implying males frequently get custody in divorces
>implying women dont have absolute, unequivocal control over the genepool at the moment
I'm all for equal rights or whatever, but tell me the name of a male rights group. misogyny implies hatred of women, I'm looking for equal male rights

>>622054
I am a feminist and do not know any feminists like that.

>>622121

>>622113
males don't need a male rights group. we live in a patriarchal society in which men are the hegemony. get a clue.

Feminists are fine. The ones without a sense of humor complaining about the terrible historical plight of women yet clearly don't suffer in any real way are the annoying ones. Bitching about the plight of women in the global south while they idly text some random and are unable to make eye contact for more than five seconds.

>>622124
you can jim gaffigan me all you want, but it's true. I took a feminist social theory course in college too and did not come across this ideology.

astounding how many people are parading their ignorance. it's pretty sad.

while I agree there is no need for a group to champion the rights of males, our gender is suffering through a crippling lack of self awareness. I would say that it would be a good thing for males to reassess masculinity as a group--which could share some of the same conclusions of feminists,oddly. My favorite feminist is Valerie Solanis fuck yer.

>>622131
College? What was I thinking??

>>622139
I do agree with this. If men and women were both more self-aware the world would be a better place. Everyone should try to understand societal gender dynamics in order to change it for the better.

Really, the more involved you are in the feminist movement, the less of a feminist you really are.

If you want an egalitarian society, just fucking live that way.

>>622143
that photo always reminds me of alton brown.

>>622139
I just want to be able to fight without going to jail.

>>622145
This is a key element of Feminism which is why Feminism should be important to males, as well. Misogyny oppresses everyone.

>>622125
I never said provide a social commentary on the current state of the world, I simply said name a male rights group. Now of course male rights would come with a patriarchal society, but really isn't your answer EXACTLY as sexist as I was talking about? By implying males have all the power and dismissing that we might not sounds an awful lot like exaggerated and unfounded sexism. A vote is still a vote regardless of gender. Way to prove my point you sexist.

>>622125
this is what feminists actually believe
you have no idea what it is like to be a man
get your head out of your college professors ass and get a clue. 90% of average men don't get jack shit form this mystical patriarchy. your policies only hurt those 90% because the ones in real control are untouchable
read a book, The War Against Boys
grow up, lady

>>622151
Truth, but I want jails to be abolished completely I don't know if I should hold my breath on that one.

>>622162
haha oh wow

>>622162
WHY would you advocate such a stupid idea?

>>622157
>a vote is still a vote regardless of gender
but why are candidates predominantly male i don't even...actually I do. Power addiction is hoisted onto the male psyche. We suffer from Misogyny along with women. It may not be equal suffering, but all the same it is a poisonous element in our culture. If you want to put your head in the sand and say that gender dynamics aren't oppressive fine by me--but you are hurting yourself in the process (not the anon you were addressing, i just felt like you needed to be told)

"Women don’t wear watches; they wear bracelets. Women wearing bracelets is like dropping a bus of retarded kids off in front of a taffy pulling machine. They can just stare for hours and never get bored."

Modern-day feminists are retards.
You got your equality, decades ago. What more could you want?

>>622159
3 BOOKS FEMINISTS SHOULD READ
>The War Against Boys
>Self-Made Man
>The Blank Slate, by Steve Pinker
former massive feminazi here
i only ever even heard of these books after i got out of college
they changed my life. and thank god because i have 2 boys now and i don't know what kind of mother I would have been if I was still as crazy as I used to be

Having a penis — in other words looking like a man and having man parts — is a man’s way of telling other men, ‘Hey. Look at me. I’m a man. I won’t fuck up whatever it is that you’re trying to do.

>>622169
It isn't a stupid idea. Jails are not based on some social necessity--they are simply tools of manipulating socio-economic dynamics to favor those in power. The concept of confinement was developed out of a reasoning which is strictly oppressive. It does not provide a gross benefit to society. Get a clue.

>>622182
they don't believe in an innate human anture, so if the results are not equal, they assume it's some sort of aetheric mystical sexism floating in the halls of institutions

>>622130

>in any movement or ideology, it is annoying and stupid when people are annoying and stupid

Thanks for the insight.

>>622183
feminism was the catalyst to develop gender studies which is i'm guessing the topic of the books you listed. don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

>>622188
you are completely brainwashed and there is no debating you
it's like talking to a cult-member, jeez

>>622197
>i'm going to dismiss three whole books based on an assumption
feminism in action

>>622188
there is a social necessity. you keep shit-disturbers out of the non-shit-disturbing population
sure the current system may have problems, but the system is not the problem

>>622203
Im not dismissing these books, I was just saying that feminism shouldn't be dismissed because of them.

>>622157
what are fraternities? what are local rotaries, moose, elk, odd fellows, strip clubs, secret societies and the like? men don't have men's groups? give me a break.
also, men's studies majors are popping up everywhere.

Pic very much related.

>>622206
Actually the system is the problem. It is a structure that must be dismantled. I'm just saying, read Foucault in his works "Discipline and Punish" or "Madness and Civilization"

http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/

>>622209
the true face of feminism

>>622183

How does The Blank Slate challenge feminism? Pinker argues that we don't have to regard people as actually equal to demand equal rights, and feminists demand a society where women are not treated differently from men by virtue of their gender.

>>622208
Those groups are only exascerbating the problem for men. "Male Studies" sounds ridiculous. It should be more like "gender dynamic studies" .

>implying feminism wasn't a trap by the elite to break up the family and put women to work so they can have a bigger slave force and a new consumer base to cater to
enjoy still being part of the murder machine, ladies

>>622209
jesus fucking christ

>>622212
>Foucault
yeah, this conversation is over
Foucault is ivory-tower academics at its purest

>>622209
That's fucking ridiculous, especially since getting kicked in the balls that often would make you impotent within a year.

>>622220
>Implying gender identity isn't the trap and feminism just an attempt to reassimilate liberation into the structure of power
I agree with you, but it gives you no right to ignore the oppression of women.

>>622219
I'm sure it's called Men's Studies because Women's Studies exists. If some schools wanted to combine them under Gender Studies, fine, but I don't see anything wrong with giving each their own discipline. God knows there's enough lit to fill a library on both. They are related and intertwined but each can stand on its own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xoKiH8JJM&feature=player_embedded

"All women are whores. They trade sex for money"

>>622216
it challenges the idea that gender is socially constructed
it argues for equal opportunity, not equal outcome
i.e., true female equality, not phony academic gassbagging that is just a front for marxist thought

>>622227
"Ivory Tower Academics"? That is the most ridiculous accusation possible. You obviously have not read, or have not comprehended what he has written.

>>622212

Foucault

>>622237
what's wrong with Marx? btw, I'm sure I'll read those books mentioned, but I can't see myself becoming an un-feminist... You must not have been a very good feminist to read a couple books and now be fine with women's second rate status in society.

>>622242
Well said, anon, well said. Focault's works are made totally irrelevant by your argument. Bravo.

>>622237
>>622237
>>622237
>>622190
>>622190
>>622190
both of these combined
seriously
the ridiculous ivory-tower theories modern gender studies and feminists and queer theorists come up with are only going to ensure a hardcore conservative backlash and make things worse when things start getting bad in the West, which is inevitable if you know anything about the economic picture

How is prostitution illegal, but alimony isn't? They're basically the same thing.

>>622247
focault is about as reality-based as the teleological argument for god in theology
leaving this thread.

>>622249
any conservative backlash is due to the hegemony feeling threatened. to place blame on the very people fighting for equal rights for perpetuating their own subjugation is asinine.

>>622251

you're right, alimony is paying for the whore to leave.

>>622255
You have said nothing, and now you are retreating.

There is nothing more freeing and liberating to a woman than chauvinism. A woman has no responsibilities because we don't expect her to get anything right.

>>622274
does trolling ever get old?

>>622243
>I'm sure I'll read those books mentioned
I'm sure you won't. Or I'm sure you will but instead of taking any of the arguments seriously, you will start with the assumption that they are wrong and try to aim towards proving that while you "critically deconstruct the text".
>You must not have been a very good feminist to read a couple books and now be fine with women's second rate status in society.
We don't have a second rate status in this society. You assume that because women aren't engineers as often as men are, then that means they are being conditioned to not pursue those careers. You will not consider the fact that women are built differently. You automatically assume it's sexism, and that is just bad logic.
Every career woman i know is on prozac and in their 2nd and 3rd marriages.
Every single one.

>>622274
A penny saved is a woman fired.

>>622257
fighting oppression is one thing

that's not what you people do

you take everything that is a foundation for the general culture and try your best to tear it down and undermine it

A woman would never vote for Hillary Clinton. She embarrassed herself by not pleasing her man, and women know it.

All women are good for is having kids. Unfortunately they're not very good at raising them. Hitler was raised by a single mother.

I find much of feminism to be ridiculous, but I've always wondered how these threads derail into overt misogyny, poker night woman jokes and all around stupidity. Are there that many guys on 4chan that have had their hearts broken and become embittered against half the population? Lots of lonely 40 year olds or what? Virgin 20-somethings? I don't get it. It's the same shit on /r9k/.

>>622278
wow, you are so ignorant I don't even know where to start. I have no problem reading books I might disagree with because I am not a closed-minded moron and base my opinions on factual information.
I do not have a problem with there not being as many female engineers in the world. I understand that there are trends within the sexes, just as there are trends within personality traits, etc.
But how do you explain women not making as much as men on the dollar for the same job? How do you explain rape? How do you explain domestic violence?
Give me a fucking break. You read a couple book and have a couple boys and now you're denying reality. You are so enlightened.
As for every "career woman" you know...you must not know many, because I know plenty in perfectly healthy relationships and with perfectly healthy brains. To suggest that a woman cannot handle having a career is to imply exactly what feminists accuse the patriarchy of perpetuating-- the notion (and the condition) that women are second-class citizens.

>>622302

>Virgin 20-somethings?

Bingo. We're a bitter bunch.

>>622292
for example? if something is a perceived problem, then yes. I'm sorry if you disagree with the problem.

>>622300
That's true. Black males are raised in single mother households and look at the high percentage of them in prison. BTW nice doubles.

>>622295
wat? I volunteered for Hillary during the primary, along with millions of other men and women. stop trolling it up.

The only thing women really do is spend men's money

unfunny trolls are unfunny.

>>622320
>4chan
>stop trolling

You can't blame women for what they do wrong in the same way you can't blame a dog for what it does wrong. It's your fault for not training it properly.

look at me and my opinions

i will state them as controversially as possible and ignore all attempts that people make to reason with me

somebody please pay attention to me

Not a fan. Seems to me they got most of what they wanted a long time ago and have since just been doing a lot of complaining about very little.

I may be biased though. . . I've been trying to get a particular job in the Army for a number of months now but because I am a male I pretty much have to just get in line. If I were female they would make room for me so they could make mission. Kinda sucks.

>>622396
yes, you are biased.

I am a fem who tried to get an Army civilian job I was OVERqualified for but didn't even get a call b/c I didn't know the right buzzwords to put in my resume and b/c I was told specifically that if I was not already in the "system" (of federal employees) there was basically no way of getting in. Don't blame women, blame the Army.

>>622302
because we can? for the lulz?

>>622412
oy, apparently acting like retards is funny. or is it because of the truism that retards are not aware of their own stupidity.

>>622404

I don't blame women for getting preferential treatment in a lot of ways. . . shit I'm jealous that they can do half the shit they do (several women use their sex to their advantage majorly in my current job) and I don't understand how they can possibly want more.

For example, in at least two cases female workers in my plant get to essentially not do parts of their jobs that they find objectionable simply because the last two supervisors who attempted to force them to do their jobs got written up for sexual harassment.

I don't know. . . the more I see women gaming the system the less I feel they need extra protection. . .they already get away with shit that would get me fired so what else do they want? Getting paid to do nothing? If that's what you want just come out and say it so that when they write that shit into law companies can reasonably expect to lose a certain percentage of their money enabling a handful of welfare cases.

>>622412
It's not funny once you hit puberty. If it ever was.

>>622425
As a feminist I say that those sorts of women are complete bitches. The error here is that when women like this do retarded things people think it's because they're women and not because they're greedy, lazy leeches.

Both genders are capable of immense retardation. The argument of feminism is that announcing individual retardation as a product of sex, male or female, is an error and makes things more difficult for those of either sex who are not fuckups.

For example, men get the shaft in child custody cases because people think women will across the board be better parents. Women find themselves in tough economic situations in cases where they are partners in a company with their spouse but are unrecognized as such and upon divorce have no say in the company or compensation for the work they put in.

Both of these problems are a product of the same fundamental error, that of making some broad conclusion about a gender and acting upon it regardless of the particulars of a situation. Feminism is an attempt to fix both problems, but is undermined often by people trying to win the 'I got it worse' war.

>>622447

I'm sorry, but I've never heard a "feminist" use that argument. Invariably their arguments have been based around the idea that men have it better and thus women need to be elevated to the status of men.

I agree with what you're saying, both sides are fucking retarded . . . but in the grand scheme of things thinking everyone needs to just shut the fuck up and deal with the facts at hand isn't a widely held pillar of feminist philosophy.

>>622354

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i cannot tell if this is a troll thread or not

>>622481
Just shut the fuck up is definitely not feminist, since feminism is all about speaking the fuck out.

Apology accepted, but you just did hear a feminist use that argument, and I know many feminists that agree with me. I also know a few feminists that have a shallow understanding of sex relations and do think it's all the men's fault. I won't apologize for them. They taint the conversation, just like the fucktards who demand sandwiches from the safety of their basements.

>>622517
>sandwiches

The lack of sandwich making might still be a deal breaker.

>>622310
WHAT THE FUCK?!
>How do you explain rape? How do you explain domestic violence?
Those things are not based on sex but on the person commiting the act. If you ever heard anything from any professional you would know rape is not based on sex, its based on control and the need to control. I have a question for you how is it that when a women rapes a man it is not considered rape but assault and has no where near the penalties.
>the patriarchy of perpetuating-- the notion (and the condition) that women are second-class citizens.
Thats not what she is talking about thats what you are talking about. Stop putting words in others mouths and stop hearing only what you want to hear.

If you seriously spell it "womyn", you lose all validity.

NEEDS MOAR S.C.U.M.

I've never met a feminist who actually wanted equality, they always want superiority. Fuck em.

i consider myself a feminist in the sense that i believe that women deserve the same rights as men. yes, i do think women should be considered for the draft. yes, i do think that custody battles should be about who is the better parent. yes, i do believe a woman should have to work for her money.

i don't hate men. i don't blame men for all of our problems, and i certainly don't blame them for mine. i can admit that women have contributed to the issue of women not being treated as equals. and i can understand why the term "feminist" is often sneered upon, as many weak, dumb women throw it around and expect to get somewhere with it. men are not the enemy. they aren't pigs, they aren't tyrants. they aren't all sex crazed retards.

i've come to find that if you treat a person based on their character rather than their gender, you tend to have a better relationship with them.

Equal rights for women and men - Sure, why not
More rights for women than men - lolwut?

feminism, in the sense of PACs and grassroots organizations for legislation which would protect the rights of women in the workplace, etc. is necessary, but as it acheives its goals it will become less so. Feminism as a theory, as a critique of gender dynamics and as an exegesis on the impact that gender has had on society is indespinsable...I think we (i'm speaking to the men here) would be remiss to turn our backs on feminism. We are just as oppressed by static concepts of gender as women are. We may not face it materially as often as women do. Yet, even when it is not us, but them (dichotomy not intended) who are being marginalized, we still suffer. Until we can comprehensibly deconstruct the patterns of gender and sexuality in our society, we have no hope of a true liberation.

>>622793
I agree entirely.

I think that the important thing is to look at people as people, and avoid deciding everything about their background, capability, and personality by gender. Both women and men can be equally competent in whatever they choose to spend time on and get better at. Judge people by their enthusiasm and skill, not their gender/color/class/etc.

They say they want equality, but want seperate rights for women. Where did I hear seperate is never equal?

>>623206
Who says this? And what do they say specifically?

>>624900
don't waste your time, anon. they are a bunch of walking homesick abortions