/lit/ - Literature

>>>/pol/

Civilization had to be forced on savages, the world is better for it.

>>6220002
I think you should do some research on how the word barbarian was used. Protip: mostly against other whites

UMad, Egyptian?

>>6220054
marlow's aunt detected

the colonial process is THIS easy to learn about:
>read about david livingstone
>read about henry stanley
>read about king leopold
>read heart of darkness
>read chinua achebe's grievances against heart of darkness

>>6220080
>implying current day Egyptians and past Egyptians are one and the same heritage
get a load of this fagget

>mudskins buttmad that they fell for basic tricks and got steamrolled
>muh honor mofugga
when you're building civilization there's no time for being nice

he said while sitting in his underwear on a board about chinese cartoons

>Caucasians
>what they did in Egypt
>Caucasians
>Egypt
>Egyptians are Caucasian

You look a bit confused there, friend.

>>6220094
>he's been here before.jpeg

wow great thread

>>6220087
>read chinua achebe's grievances against heart of darkness
Oh you mean
>White men are racists in the early 1900's? THIS BOOK IS SHIT.
Fuck Achebe.

>>6220100

>>6220002
Other peoples weren't morally superior to Europeans, they were just incompetent. Everyone is always raping and pillaging, it's just that European were the first to turn it into a highly efficient global enterprise.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

>>6220002

>Creating a conclusion.
>Asking for evidence to suit your narrative.

Oh w8 top b8

>>6220002
>blacks & Natives Welcome whites to their homeland

Do people really think this?

>>6220387
white people are greedy fucks they went to egypt and saw the gold people were wearing and decorating with and found a way to take it for themselves

kek

>>6220302
Eh, to be fair, they weren't incompetent; tribal warfare, petty chiefdoms and the like also dominated Europe for much of it's history, and by Iron Age standards, guys like the Zulu would have been pretty competetive.

They just lost the race for technological supremacy due to geographical and cultural isolation from Europe; where the renaissance zeitgeist was all about building a better mousetrap.

>>6220414
>and by Iron Age standards, guys like the Zulu would have been pretty competetive.

except for you know, not really possessing iron.

>>6220405
Something that egyptians never did themselves...

>>6220405
Well, yeah.

That's conquest 101.

You go somewhere, check out what they've got, if it;s worth something and you can take it from them, then you do.

Every people from every corner of the globe has fought for wealth, land, or rivalry.

We're all the sons of a thousand thousand generations of murderers, slavers and bastards.

Every one of us.

Whitey was just the most recent world champ.

>>6220423
This is an Assegai; a traditional zulu short spear; notice the iron head.

Now, the Zulu didn't have an awful lot of iron; but they were certainly capable of metallurgy comparable to say, Germans circa 200 BC; that is, mostly as spear and axe heads and specialized tools.

>>6220431
>Whitey was just the most recent world champ.

What's worse is whitey is the only one who's said sorry.

>>6220442
An iron spearhead is one thing.

An iron spear-head going up against iron armour is something else.

>inb4 Teutoberg forrest

They may have held their own the Zulus, but to call it "competitive" is something else.

Hey, OP, I believe you misspelled 'Jews'.

>>6220444
"What is uniquely Western is not slavery but the movement to abolish slavery".

>>6220414
Losing is a sign of incompetence.

If they didn't win, it's because they were less competent at trying to win than Europe.

But your Zulu mention is a nice example of how they weren't morally superior noble savages.

>>6220457
Tbh, most European Iron-age peoples didn't have much in the way of armour for their infantry beyond a shield and maybe a helmet.

A noble and his retinue would have Mail hauberks and full-face helmets, of course, but these were wealthy men with the alleigance of hundreds or thousands of warriors and craftsmen.

Besides, iron armor is impractical in subsaharan africa due to intense heat, and lack of any local domesticable animal to ride.

Zulu mostly used light cowhide shields, and made use of highly mobile infantry formations; even having their soldiers undergo conditioning training for long-distance running, which allowed them to use encirclement tactics against the more heavilyy kitted, and on average less physically fit British forces during the battle of Battle of Isandlwana; these factors in addition to their superior numbers allowed them to defeat the British; a people wielding technology almost two thousand years in advance of their own.

You seeing my comparison here?

>>6220485
Yes, but I'm merely talking about civilization vs civilization.

If you plonked Shaka and his tribe into iron-age Europe they'd probably get wrecked.

Do you see what I'm saying?

"Competitive" implies they could have become top-dog, and I think that's a load of shit.

>>6220469
Incompetence is the wrong word I feel.

If you show up expecting a knife fight, and the other guy pulls out an alien laser weapon that you've never even conceived of, and melts you into goop where you stand, then are you incompetent?

No, just born in the wrong place and time.

>>6220485
>fluke guerilla victories are impressive

>>6220494
And if you Plonked Arminius and his tribal confederation into subsaharan africa circa the early 1800's they'd probably get wrecked too.

And no, competetive means "able to compete".

Aka, not a pushover.

>>6220499
I'd like to see you coordinate one mate.

>>6220496
>No, just born in the wrong place and time.
But that is what incompetence is according to determinism.

>>6220002
>DEY GOOD BOYS!
>DEY DINDU NUFFIN!

>>6220468
>uniquely Western

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline#Ancient_times

>>6220508
>Determinism

>>6220508
I am not a determinist.

Do you have a point, or are you just being awkward?

>>6220503
I disagree completely.

I said they'd hold their own, but they wouldn't do it that well.

Your argument is iron tipped spears and a few flanking maneuvers.

>>6220409
Hi /pol/
How's it doing this evening?

>>6220513
>abolish slavery

>immediately reinstate it

Way to go Orientals.

>>6220521
Yep, and that's basically what Iron-age Germans would have been working with too.

What I'm saying is the level of cultural and technological sophistication is comparable without making any great leaps of logic.

>>6220539
>Yep, and that's basically what Iron-age Germans would have been working with too.

And I'd be the first to say the Germans weren't exactly big players until the fall of the Western Empire.

So we agree?

>>6220002
I'm not sure about any specific book, but a biography about Cecil Rhodes would be the perfect insight into what you're talking about.

The guy manipulated and exploited natives in South Africa like there was no tomorrow, he made his fortune in the diamond mines.

>>6220548
No reason not to.

>>6220513
Not only do those seem to stem indirectly from other motivations but they were absolutely momentary changes.

>>6220414
Jared Diamond pls go

>>6220511
I want to defile her succulently aged peach, with my black rod of pleasure.

I would stare deep into her eyes as they rolled back into her head from unwanted multiple orgasm by the hands of a "black"

>>6220567
I have literally no idea who that is.

Just tell me if I should be offended or not, and I'll do the rest.

>>6220570
>"Just tell me if I should be offended or not, and I'll do the rest."
>That moment when I think you might be serious

>>6220579
I am quite serious.

>>6220002
Confessions of the Last Lowly Warrior has a section on just that topic.

>>>blacks & Natives Welcome whites to their homeland
kek

>>6220485
The British lost at Islandwana only because their commander was incompetent and pointed his cannons the wrong. It had nothing to do with Zulu tactics. This is a little like trying to claim that Custer's defeat means the redskins could hold their own against Americans. It's literally nothing but a fluke due to the incompetent of a particular white military commander.

>>6220496
>If you show up expecting a knife fight, and the other guy pulls out an alien laser weapon that you've never even conceived of, and melts you into goop where you stand, then are you incompetent?
Of course you are. Who the fuck brings a knife to an alien laserfight?

>No, just born in the wrong place and time.
Everyone is what he is because of his time and place. I suck at running compared to Usain Bolt because of my time and place. Africans sucked at war compared to conquering Europeans because of their time and place.

We are all literally the product of our circumstances and so is our competence or lack thereof.

>>6220671
Confirmed by them getting BTFO by 150 Brits the very next day

>>6220671
>>6220689
>tfw you finish genociding a tribe just in time for tea

>>6220680
> Who the fuck brings a knife to an alien laserfight?

I love how you turned that around. Anon was talking about bringing a alien laser weapon to a fight with someone who has only ever seen knives, and you talk about bringing a knife to an alien laserfight. Nice example of disingenuosity.

You would make a great Jew, and I say that as a Jew myself.

>>6220692
That picture is rather funny, or rather sad, when you remember what came after it.

>>6220689
Zulu is so great

>>6220671
>The British lost at Islandwana only because their commander was incompetent

And more than half of the force were Africans themselves and not Brits.

People get this idea that the entire force was Redcoats with rifles but that just isn't true.

>>6220002
The amount of inaccurate narratives in your post is off the charts, Opie.

>>6220671
Also true, but the success of any strategy is partially contingent on your enemy stuffing up his own, or failing to properly analyze yours.

It's called the Odyssey, bro. It's not just an adventure story for kids. Read it and learn.

>>6220414
>They just lost the race for technological supremacy due to geographical and cultural isolation from Europe; where the renaissance zeitgeist was all about building a better mousetrap.

Please refrain from making such silly claims, thank you.

As a black man I'd like to say a simultaneous thank you and fuck you to the white race in general.

Let's face it, overall they are better. But they are also greedier and more evil. The things they've done throughout the world have only made every single place worse except for their own white countries.

However, I live in one of these white countries and am having a great time myself. They have developed a means to the best way of life. I being of the superior African master race can enjoy the fruits of their labor myself as a superior African man with the right skills. I've seen through the racist system they've set up for themselves and have leaped to the top.

Whites are too ignorant and self-centered and closed-minded though, and I don't know if they will ever see the true error of their evil ways throughout history. Only recently have they begun to correct their ways.

>>6220758
Only if you'll refrain from offhandedly dismissing statements without providing any proper counter-argument.

Or are you going to say they were ass-backwards because they were just a bunch of dumb niggers?

If it's the latter be open about it so I can know to just ignore you.

>>6220764
Thank you Barak Hussein Obama; saviour of the white race.

We are forever your indebted Honkey slaves.

>>6220764
>Let's face it, overall they are better. But they are also greedier and more evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suiyang

>>6220708
>I love how you turned that around. Anon was talking about bringing a alien laser weapon to a fight with someone who has only ever seen knives, and you talk about bringing a knife to an alien laserfight. Nice example of disingenuosity.
The fact that he has only seen knives clearly means he sucks at creating laser weapons. The inability to create the proper weapons to face your enemy is a sure sign of incompetence in warfare, whether you're the defending or the attacking party.

>You would make a great Jew, and I say that as a Jew myself.
I appreciate the compliment. Jews have a great sophist tradition.

>>6220912
>The fact that he has only seen knives clearly means he sucks at creating laser weapons.

Not necessarily. For what you know he could have genius talent at creating laser weapons, you simply have no idea.

>The inability to create the proper weapons to face your enemy is a sure sign of incompetence in warfare

I'm not the other anon, and I don't take issue with the word incompetent, as long as you use it in the general sense of "was unable to for a variety of reasons".

>>6220937
I do; competence/incompetence should be used as a descriptor of skill factors, not merely environmental ones.

For instance; in a fight between both men armed similarly, the most competent will usually win.

This anon is misusing the word quite badly.

I suspect for the purpose of causing a "reaction".

>>6220937
>Not necessarily. For what you know he could have genius talent at creating laser weapons, you simply have no idea.
Then he is incompetent at providing the knowledge resources to begin creating them, which has the same end result: No lasers and losing wars.

>I'm not the other anon, and I don't take issue with the word incompetent, as long as you use it in the general sense of "was unable to for a variety of reasons".
Yes. In my first post I was referring to competence at general raping and pillaging, which was merely a colourful way to say conquering, defeating, killing, subduing others etc, the point being that non-Europeans weren't precious peaceful peoples who just wanted to do less harm, they were just less good at it and therefore didn't come out on top at the time.

>>6220955
Skill factor is environmental though.

I realise I'm using the word in a sense that is wider than that it is generally used, but I don't consider that misuse but improved use.

>>6221053
Stop being a determinist, y' dingus.

It's gross and weird.

>>6221066
What's a determinism?

>>6221084
Determinism is the philosophical idea that every event or state of affairs, including every human decision and action, is the inevitable and necessary consequence of antecedent states of affairs. - t. google define function

>>6221066
I don't feel comfortable incorporating magic into my worldview, anon.

>>6220002

Meh usually we came to those lands, picked sides between the many who were killing and raping each other, and told the side we joined up with to kill and rape a bit less and just focus on civilization. We helped other SA tribes wipe out the Aztecs for example, who were a much bigger threat to all those peoples than we were. They weren't going to be able to create civilization by themselves so we took them under our wing and ruled them for their own good.

Unfortunately these kind of situations are very easy to exploit by the greedy.

>>6221458
In the case of SA, I'm not sure sugar plantations were much better than Aztec human sacrifices, but yeah I see your point.

>>6220507
With the internet, you could download manuals and memoirs of the Vietcong and other tactics issued by the Soviets to guerrillas. Also
>books

You're arguing against yourself, no one was preventing the Zulus from advancing pre-1800s, and European contact as well as middle eastern and chinese existed for a very long time. Hell, the Vikings made it to Africa

>>6220781
30.000..
Also, what's with people murdering their concubines so easily?

Chinese people have been fucking disgusting, though, same as the Mongols. There was a battle for a city where they just had the entire population line up naked so they could take their clothes without bloodstains, and slayed them all. Horrifying things went on in Asia.

>>6222239
Always makes me kek when libs and multicult. fags try and say Europeans were worse than the Mongols or that the Mongols were so great because they tolerated religion
Essentially:
>american education

>>6222258
People should start realizing we're all equally shit. It's weird how we have the ''everyone equal'' part down, but we're still so goddamn proud of our city/nation/continent/race.

All I'm saying is, White's were clearly the smart ones here. If what you say above is true, then White's basically waltzed in, tricked the fuck out of these great nations and enslaved them as well.

>>6222275
It's degenerate to not take pride in your heritage, nation, and race. You think it makes you some kind of enlightened cosmopolitan, but in reality all it signifies is that your people are decadent and are soon to be supplanted by some more virile culture with no qualms about national and racial pride (see: China abroad, Muslim immigrants at home).

>>6222258
Always makes me kek when reactionaries try and change every conversation to the 'liberal' bogeyman or blame them for any irrelevant issue because they are utterly obsessed with them
Essentially:
>Stupidity and insecurity

>>6222509
Liberals are responsible for all the problems in the world. Fact.

>>6222509
>change every conversation
This is a conversation started by the op accusing whites of being more savage, greedy etc. than other people, which is a point of view that is held most commonly by liberals.

>>6220764
>superior African master race
fucking kek'd

>>6220054
Ayn Rand pls leave

>>6223679
I don't know where you're from but I hope you realize that civilization was forced upon the French, the British, the Germans, the Scandis and most of Europe as well by the Romans and the Greeks.

>>6223685
I wasn't saying conquest is unique to any nation or civilization. I'm saying that "they weren't using the land the way WE would" is not a justifiable excuse for conquest.

>>6223709
Ofc it isn't. The only justifiable excuse for conquest is "because we are stronger and we want to".

>>6220002
In a way it is sad that there are people that actually think like this.

I'm French so I have been mostly interested in France colonial history.
The first French colonial Empire was a success based on constant alliances with savages. Hundreds of alliances with Amerindians. It was different dealing with British men but seriously Brits get too much shit about it too.

Second French Empire was a financial burden every single year of its existence, starting in 1830 with the conquest of Algiers. Decolonisation was a boon that made France much richer, investing in France rather than in some savage country. Same with Belgium and Netherlands (loosing Indonesia was the best thing that happened to them).

When treating outside colonies, people often focus of Brits who were the third world cuckmasters, but as I said it is un undeserved black legend.

>>6221891
You have to be severly biased against creole societies to imagine that slave plantations were worse than Aztecs.

The Caraibeans were atrocious, must mainland Mexico was fine.

Smallpox, plague and flu killing 90% of Amerindians wasn't nice though. But it is hardly "dun dun evil whitey keep that brown people down".

>>6223685
That's simply not true.

>>6220002
It's not necessarily that their white, it's just that the white race had the most power. If it was Blacks that held the power, and whites that were the 'Barbarians', then the same thing would happen. People with power lust for more power, that's human nature, it's not race exclusive.

>whitey is evil and dumb, gib moneys and white womens plox

/thread

>>6223685
And yet, the French and Germans aren't butt obliterated by that conquest. People like OP just don't want to move on and instead attempt to scalp every pity point they can.

I don't know much about the colonization of Africa, but I know the Indians didn't just "invite" the white men in. They were often fairly hostile to the colonists, they certainly didn't just passively sit around getting colonized, read some fucking history dude.

>>6225146
>reprisal wars
and lots of them