/lit/ - Literature

>>6146549
They are a cult of death, and full of slave morality, who seek martyrdom to compensate for being human garbage. The do not seek to overcome man, but instead aim for collective submission. But yeah, if you simply read Nietzsche as a preacher of violence, they're super nietzschean.

They're all rolling extremely hard on amphetamines all the time, especially in battle. They mistake the amphetamine high for the strength of Allah flowing through them.

Friedrich Nietzsche reminds you that the current Islamisation of Europe is one of the least of all evils.

>If Islam despises Christianity, it has a thousandfold right to do so: Islam at least assumes that it is dealing with men.
The AntiChrist, Chapter 59

>Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down ( I do not say by what sort of feet ) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life! The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very "senile." What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich. Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won . The German noble, always the "Swiss guard" of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church but well paid . Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious. Christianity, alcohol the two great means of corruption. Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Jew. The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala or he is not. "War to the knife with Rome! Peace and friendship with Islam!" : this was the feeling, this was the act , of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently ? I can't make out how a German could ever feel Christian .
The AntiChrist, Chapter 69

>>6146549
they are a herd of unenlightened barbarians impossible to reason with

>>6146583
He's right, Europe is very decadent, we need a new strong religion and Islam is showing to be the one we've been waiting for.

Didn't you watch Conan the Barbarian? The true Ubermensch will destroy the death cults

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhy9--YRBD8

>>6146589
>impossible to reason with

>With Socrates, Greek taste changes in favor of logical argument. What really happened there? Above all, a noble taste is vanquished; with dialectics the plebs come to the top. Before Socrates, argumentative conversation was repudiated in good society: it was considered bad manners, compromising. The young were warned against it. Furthermore, any presentation of one's motives was distrusted. Honest things, like honest men, do not have to explain themselves so openly. What must first be proved is worth little. Wherever authority still forms part of good bearing, where one does not give reasons but commands, the logician is a kind of buffoon: one laughs at him, one does not take him seriously. Socrates was the buffoon who got himself taken seriously: what really happened there?
Twilight of the Idols

>>6146578
>you will never be an eight foot tall warrior high on amphetamines bashing your enemies' skulls in with your bare hands and being drunk on rage and blood while taking inhuman amounts of wounds
>you will never be an unstoppable hulking mass of fear on the battlefield
Why live

Holy shot you're right op. He even has the same opinion on women as them.

No

They're mongos obsessed with acting edgy and playing 'state.' Their only sophistication is their impressive ability to provoke and manipulate outrage. The media-driven discourse surrounding them plays right into their hands.

>>6146549
They are a symptom of a failing civilisation, slowly creeping back into the desert, where it belongs. Nietzsche didn't glorify Islam, he just despised it less than Christianity.

>>6146605
>One chooses logical argument only when one has no other means.
how does that work?
you can argue the illogical without end

>>6146549
Are you on dope, OP ?
Islam is a semitic death-cult, with humans surrendering their fate and will to an ancient god-head. Nietzschean doctrine is an anthropocentric atheist life-cult. These two are 100% incompatible on every level. Nietzsche only speaks positively about Islam when he compares it to other Abrahamic religions. He even says Buddhism is the best of all faiths, and then calls it degenerate in the next sentence.

>>6146731
>Islam is a semitic death-cult

>>6146731
Read Nietzsche or fuck off back to reddit

>>6146660
You only have to convince someone and explain yourself when you have no power or authority over him otherwise. Trying to seduce someone into agreement is therefore a sign of weakness.

>>6146749
He's obviously never read Nietzsche or the Quran, they're completely comparable and he loved Muhammad (pbuh), he even influenced the Iranian revolution to a certain extent.

>>6146655
>Nietzsche didn't glorify Islam, he just despised it less than Christianity.
Pretty much this.
>even for a Cesare Borgia rather than for a Parsifal

But I find OP quoting him out of context funny still.

>>6146605

According to Thucydides noble trust or openness is a condition of peace that is corrupted by hardship and war, leading to further hardship. Under such conditions "words change their meaning" an "good arguments are bested by the lesser". The noble openness of which Nietzsche speaks is essentially peaceable according to a contemporary of Socrates who was not a philosopher or sophist, but a public man and general. Let the claim that the Greeks did not argue except under the spell Socrates be laid against the political realities portrayed in that book.

Nietzsche here is either hooking his readers with an exaggeration or he is plainly wrong. He treats Socrates as a buffoon, like the man who neglects to avoid a puddle in the road because he is too busy in contemplation. On the contrary, we know that Socrates was a very worldly man. I would claim that Nietzsche is not so stupid as to be taken by caricature. We should not be taken by Nietzsche exaggerations either. He does not mean to disregard reason entirely, but instead intends to direct its use toward the appropriate avenues.

>>6146549

Islam is the most detached from the mercy based relgous attitude of Christianity and the Law obsesson of Judaism.


One thing that's very anti- Nietzschean/pagan is Islams aesthetic Platonism in art and the forbidding of drawing images.

Islam however is a warriors religon.

This is something the west doesn't understand, and why Islam looks at it's degenerate liberal democratic consumerism with disgust.

>>6146765
>he even influenced the Iranian revolution to a certain extent.

Nietszche did? How did the Ayatollah work him into the revolutionary ideals?

>>6146813
This.

>>6146813

>>6146815
He was influenced by people who were heavily influenced by Nietzsche.

>>6146615
We'll all have our chance to put our lives on the line for what we believe in soon enough.

>>6146813
>Islam is the most detached from the mercy based relgous attitude of Christianity and the Law obsesson of Judaism.

Yeah, but it's still a life-denying ascetic cult of personality. Just because muslims have no problem slaughtering the weak doesn't mean they are embracing life.

Under Sharia music is banned, and Nietzsche is the man who wrote "life without music would be a mistake", which can only imply that Islam is a mistake.

ISIS are Muslim as fuck

>>6146813

One should note that the climax of the Iliad, the quintessential book on the subject of war and the thematic center of Hellenistic culture, reaches its climax when Achilles shows mercy to Priam. How might one explain that under your naive interpretive scheme?

>>6146755
Then enlighten me, how is surrendering to some ancient sheep-shagger god compatible with Nietzschean doctrine ?

Zizek things otherwise

"What is much more needed than the demonisation of the terrorists into heroic suicidal fanatics is a debunking of this demonic myth. Long ago Friedrich Nietzsche perceived how Western civilisation was moving in the direction of the Last Man, an apathetic creature with no great passion or commitment. Unable to dream, tired of life, he takes no risks, seeking only comfort and security, an expression of tolerance with one another: “A little poison now and then: that makes for pleasant dreams. And much poison at the end, for a pleasant death. They have their little pleasures for the day, and their little pleasures for the night, but they have a regard for health. ‘We have discovered happiness,’ - say the Last Men, and they blink.”

It effectively may appear that the split between the permissive First World and the fundamentalist reaction to it runs more and more along the lines of the opposition between leading a long satisfying life full of material and cultural wealth, and dedicating one's life to some transcendent Cause. Is this antagonism not the one between what Nietzsche called "passive" and "active" nihilism? We in the West are the Nietzschean Last Men, immersed in stupid daily pleasures, while the Muslim radicals are ready to risk everything, engaged in the struggle up to their self-destruction. William Butler Yeats’ “Second Coming” seems perfectly to render our present predicament: “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.” This is an excellent description of the current split between anemic liberals and impassioned fundamentalists. “The best” are no longer able fully to engage, while “the worst” engage in racist, religious, sexist fanaticism.

However, do the terrorist fundamentalists really fit this description? What they obviously lack is a feature that is easy to discern in all authentic fundamentalists, from Tibetan Buddhists to the Amish in the US: the absence of resentment and envy, the deep indifference towards the non-believers’ way of life. If today’s so-called fundamentalists really believe they have found their way to Truth, why should they feel threatened by non-believers, why should they envy them? When a Buddhist encounters a Western hedonist, he hardly condemns. He just benevolently notes that the hedonist’s search for happiness is self-defeating. In contrast to true fundamentalists, the terrorist pseudo-fundamentalists are deeply bothered, intrigued, fascinated, by the sinful life of the non-believers. One can feel that, in fighting the sinful other, they are fighting their own temptation."

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/01/slavoj-i-ek-charlie-hebdo-massacre-are-worst-really-full-passionate-intensity

>>6146857
not it's not.

>>6146857
>life-denying ascetic cult of personality

>Under Sharia music is banned

So what's going on with all these Nasheeds then?

>>6146872
>ancient sheep-shagger god

Why should one take you seriously when you take such a juvenile stance when phrasing your questions? A stance phrased in such a way that already shows you're ready to dismiss any rebuttal or give any proper thought to a riposte?

It is pointless to engage with you. No more needs be said - this conversation has ended.

>>6146894
It's your problem if you believe anyone should take your retarded violent cult seriously. You are laughable and your people are impotent morons. The USA will bomb them for eternity.

>>6146888

come on bro, even a quick skim of the wiki page tells you the quran condemns musicians to hell-fire...

>>6146857

You know nothing about Silam and are throwing around buzzwords.

If Islam is a death cult then Christianity with it's primordial sin and life-denying sacrificial logic is 200x worse.

Nevermind that martyrdom is just as strong in Christianity ( in a passive state contrary to the active martyrdom of Islam.)

Yet like all religions Islam has many sides.

Sufism with it's music , poetry and dancing is as life affirming as you can get in Islam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73Omyt5CtcE

>>6146875
Zizek is a fucking asshole, Islamic 'terrorism' isn't out of resentment its revenge for what the west has done to Islam and installed 'nation states' that aren't compatable with Islam and Nietzsche saw revenge as a good thing.

>>6146899
Yes, they are both anti-human death cults. You figured it out. Now you and the christian guy can both see that you are both disliked, and maybe try to stop with the bullshit false dichtonomy. But you won't, because you are irrational brainwashed idiots.

Get pants-shittingly offended over magazine comics some more.

>>6146898

I wasn't denying that or questiong it - I was just asking why are these nasheeds so prominent - surely they are classed under 'music'?

>>6146899
You seem to think I give a shit about Christianity. I don't. It's equally retarded.

Also, sufis are subject to death under sharia.

We're not arguing about what some heretics may do, but what the central documents of the faith proclaim, and it is clear that in islam, music is sin.

>>6146894
ok

Yes, but that only shows that Nietzsche's philosophy isn't realistic

>>6146901
Too bad goat fucker get bombed. Muslims are pieces of shit and all one needs to do to confirm this is read middle eastern news and see the daily civilian car bombings across multiple continents.

>>6146909
why are fags so prominent in the catholic church? because religious fuckwits tend to be the worst hypocrites.

>>6146899
>>6146901
MIDF in full force

How can IS be Nietzschean if they follow slave moral? They are hardly the übermensch of Nietzsche's works.

>>6146861

Bro did you even read tthe Birth of Tragedy?

It's not just pity that Achilies shows but respect for his enemy which is a king and a father.
Achilles in previous episodes kills underage boys for glory. How can you even compare morality from the antiquity with that of teh Abrahamic religions?

>>6146901
>Zizek is a fucking asshole

>>6146921
if they were the ubermensch they wouldn't be a bunch of pussies that are only living because america doesn't have a republican president for two more years.

>>6146921
Pretty much this.

>>6146917

These problems run far deeper than whatever shallow analysis you ascribe to it.

Where were these suicide bombers during the 1800s? During the early 1900s?

What changed?

>>6146549
>believes in the Jewish/Christian God and can not be reasoned with in any way shape or form
>doing nothing to surpass man, only wanting to fall back on antediluvian philosophy and religious doctrine
>nietzschean

>they even believe the highest place in Jannah (heaven) is for the warrior just like Nietzsche called it one of the most honourable ways to die in Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

Do you mean the chapter ''warriors''? Because that's not about actual warriors, it's about the intellectual warrior making way for the übermensch.

>>6146906

lol I'm not butthurt because I'm not a muslim.

However saying all religions you don't like are death cults because you don't like them screams fedora.

There are important differences between the three Abrahamic religions.

And please inform yourself before you say retarded shit like "music is a sin under Islam":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_music

>>6146875
Damn, Zizek dropping that insight yet again. While I do think there is a lot of merit in what he said there, I don't necessarily believe that these men are only trying to purge the temptation from themselves by killing infidels. There is an element of that certainly, but they have major philosophical differences to Buddhist monks, and their cultural and get political situations are very different. They're fighting from different ideological grounds.

>>6146938
>What changed?
You can now make home-made car bombs to effectively fight one of the biggest imperial forces of the world.

>>6146912
I didn't say Christianity is better, it's indeed far worse. What I can not let pass is that people here are making Nietzsche look like a Muhammad-bro by presenting the things he said about Islam out of context. Nietzsche was fiercely anti-religious. He clearly said Islam is less worse than Christianity, but that has to be understood in the context of the theme. He was comparing religious systems and the effect they had on the development of their civilisations.

>>6146929
Crusaders killed plenty of underage boys as well, and you're a fucking tool if you think Achilles is doing it "for the glory", he's doing it out of overwhelming rage, hatred and ressentiment. The cost of anger is the theme of the Iliad, in the beginning it talks about the costs of Achilles anger to the Greeks, how many Achaeans died because Achilles prayed for it out of spite. And then Patroclus dies, and his anger gets shifted to the Trojans; Achilles sacrificing youths is not supposed to seem anymore more "glorious" than him making an ass of himself and dragging around the body of Hector, human sacrifice disgusted the Greeks.

>>6146938
in the 1800s the arabs were ruled by the turks, who kept their barbarism under control without any western concern for "human rights", also: oil was discovered, which made saudi arabia super rich, if there was no oil there, saudi would be about as relevant as tibet.

>>6146945
dude, try actually reading the quran and the hadith, it's clearly forbidden. also, there are arab christians, don't conflate "arab" with "muslim", you entry level retard.

>>6146848
The ayatollah was also heavily influenced by Plato's Republic. He was a bit of a philosopher king. Looking like Sean Connery also helps.

>>6146583
This supports my theory according to which you can find a Nietzsche quote to support absolutely anything.

>>6146954

That's not answering the question. The ability to make explosives and go on a suicide run was very much possible during those earlier periods of time. However at some point there was a great proliferation and change in attitude that permitted these acts. They caught on and it's very unlikely we'll see a reduction any time soon because of how easy and simple they are as acts of terror and causing damage and destruction to an immediate and local target.

I'm more interested in the political and theological underpinnings from an unbiased academic point of view and how these evolved.

>>6146731
>>6146872
>>6146915
>>6146955

>>6146615
Yeah, or being killed at 17 without having accomplished anything else than midly mastering archery, or living in the soul crushing fear of dying at any instant.

I prefer my arm chair.

>>6146956


>Crusaders killed plenty of underage boys as well, and you're a fucking tool if you think Achilles is doing it "for the glory", he's doing it out of overwhelming rage, hatred and ressentiment. The cost of anger is the theme of the Iliad, in the beginning it talks about the costs of Achilles anger to the Greeks

Please read the Illiad, Achilles went to war to gain Kleos (Glory) the Patroclus episode is unrelated with the motivations of why he went to war. War has nothing to do with petty trivialities such as "spite" , because for the greeks the hero has to prove himself as a superior man in the end , that's the lesson of the Illiad, not one of mercy or love.

>>6146917
>>6146921
When you have the west pushing human rights (secular Christian morality) bullshit down your throat constantly, invading your countries and attacking your way of life expect a response you fucking idiots, slave morality would be to just let people do what they want to you without fighting back.

>>6146966

You clinically retarded.

You didn't even provide a quote.

Apply yourself or find better bair next time you are btfo.

>>6146966
>it's clearly forbidden.

>clearly

If there's one thing I've learnt from /lit/ (and real life) is that there is no 'clearly' when it comes to religion.

>muh platonic forms
>muh written text vs interpreted text
>muh subjectivism

The permissibility of music from an Islamic theological point of view has been mooted throughout the ages.

>>6146982
the united states never invaded the islamic state, actually it's likely the united states is funding the islamic state to justify an invasion of syria to take away russia's port. the cia has you guys so confused and mixed up, haha, you think you're fighting the west but you're playing right into their grand design, slaves to the end, but then that's why you slavishly follow that dead warlord you call a prophet

>>6146982
>slave morality would be to just let people do what they want to you without fighting bac
Not really, as slave morality largely consists of punishing the strong for heing strong.

>>6146929

Achilles sees in Priam his father, who will also lose his son and so he sympathizes with him. They cry together, then speaks of human fragility. He does not so much respect King Priam as he sees a fellow sufferer in him. The book itself is in part a lamentation on the tragedies of war.

nice /pol/ bait

t. caliph

>>6146549
I respect them.

>>6147005
the only place outside the west i respect is china

>>6146572
I despise weenies who try to take Nietzsche as their own

>>6146975
>The ability to make explosives and go on a suicide run was very much possible during those earlier periods of time.
Was it? Did any radical sect of Christianity or Islam during the 1800s have access to materials to make compact, flat destroying, portable explosives? Plenty of people burnt down eachother's houses, etc. And plenty of people died in the process of raiding and burning.

We just have incredibly densely populated cities with portable bombs nowadays. To die for your religion is nothing new, to sacrifice yourself for the greater good in an attempt to ruin the enemy isn't new either. Modern suicide bombers are just conventional weapons for the time we live in. Make a country shiver in terror to go out onto the streets, and you win massive ammounts of control. There was no room for this in the 1800s because there wasn't even a proper nation-state to attack or seperate yourself from.

>>6146982
Nobody is questioning your right to fight. By the way, secular values are not inherently Christian. They are value systems to allow different groups to live together peacefully, something other cultures don't have issues with.

>>6146615
Amphetamines make you weaker

>>6147020
>here was no room for this in the 1800s because there wasn't even a proper nation-state to attack or seperate yourself from.

then explain anarchist terrorism (which was against the nation-state) seems like you kids need to do your homework

>>6146980

There is a very central tension between the glory that may be found in war and the tragedies suffered during wartime. The Iliad is a timeless work of literature only because it is not as simple as you presume.

>>6146980
Patroclus has everything to do with why Achilles went *back* to war. He had chosen to stop fighting (due to a petty triviality like spite, he prayed for the Greek deaths for such a triviality), and his speech to Odysseus in the tent makes it clear he's gained a different perspective on life, and now would rather live than have glory. He does not fight until Patroclus dies, and that is the only reason he fights, he doesn't even care if Agamemnon gives him reparations. When Odysseus meets Achilles in the Underworld in the Odyssey, Achilles says he'd rather be alive and base, and glorious and noble and dead.

The Iliad is not about mercy or love, it is about fate and the destructiveness of anger (for the Trojans, the Greeks and Achilles himself).

However, mercy was certainly a Greek value, it's called magnanimity, and it is why Thucydides and Xenophon had so much respect for the Spartans (as compared to the rather spiteful Athenians). .

>>6147034
>than glorious and noble and dead

>>6147027
I like how you ignored every part of the post that actually related to your original question.

Anyways, I got my centuries mixed up. It always happens when I see 1800s I think eighteenth century, when it's nineteenth, so yes, by the end of it there were nation-states. But this is completely irrelevant and I was silly to post it, but it's even more redundant to cherry pick it while ignoring the rest.

Anyways, going to bed, G'night.

>>6147020
>Did any radical sect

Therein lies the issue - what 'radical' sects were there really?

Also, yes the materials to make explosives and the like would very much have been available during that time period - they had gunpowder, cannons etc. And crude bombs could be constructed and thrown.

>Plenty of people burnt down eachother's houses, etc. And plenty of people died in the process of raiding and burning.

When did it change to 'you can strap a bomb onto yourself and blow up - this is a righteous act that will make a matyr!' grow up and out of?

>there wasn't even a proper nation-state to attack or seperate yourself from.

Of course not - but there was a 'controlling government' or 'overlord' i.e. the Ottoman empire, the sultan, that could be rebelled against (and incidentally when Lawrence of Arabia and his crew sowed the seeds of Arab nationalism who do you think they were fighting against in that time of a 'non-nation states'.

>>6147058
>When did it change to 'you can strap a bomb onto yourself and blow up - this is a righteous act that will make a matyr!' grow up and out of?

i think this started with t.e. lawrence teaching the arabs to use terror to defeat the ottoman empire so now they think they can defeat america with it, except turkey was "the sick man of europe" while america is the strongest western nation so good luck with that, but considering the irish and british zionists also used terror for political goals it seems to be a UK export ultimately

>>6146583

The Islam Nietzsche knows of is one that is free of the cancer of European colonialism and imperialism (piracy), the Islam that created ibn Sina, ibn Arabi, in which all of creation was realized as good, or at least neutral, and the subject of study and reverence. ISIS is just a reactionary movement, and they hate Islam and their fellow man as much as they hate the West.

>>6147074
>implying ISIS isn't just a saudi-mossad program to give america an excuse to bring troops back to iraq

>>6147066
>i think this started with t.e. lawrence teaching the arabs to use terror

Terror tactics understandably but not suicide bomb tactics. The only other cases of suicidal fervour that I can think of was the kamikaze attacks of Japan and only then out of intense nationalism.

Where did it enter Islam and why did it proliferate during the later part of the second half of the 20th century?

But I do agree with you that the terrorist tactics of the zionists and Irish influenced that of the Islamic countries during the period.

>>6146589
They are mostly people robbed of health, education, land, prosperity, peace, and self-respect by foreign war-mongering imperialists and their paid-for local cronies. Al-Qaida/ISIS is what you wanted, you chose this when you chased out the Left for Right authoritarians.

>>6147093
>Where did it enter Islam and why did it proliferate during the later part of the second half of the 20th century?

maybe it started with the cia training al-qaeda in afghanistan to fight the russians? before that most of the hijacked planes were taken as hostages to negotiate not crashed for terror

>>6147101
>They are mostly people robbed of health, education, land, prosperity, peace, and self-respect by foreign war-mongering imperialists and their paid-for local cronies.

Sure - so explain all the angsty 'western muslims' going out to join them?

>>6147101
well they should have stayed true to marxism instead of being a tool of imperialism and fighting the soviets, they have no one to blame but themselves

>>6147102
The first suicide bombers were Iranian soldiers blowing up Iraqi tanks. Of course bombers were around much longer but these were the first ones with no plan to get out alive.

>>6146749
They have the best fashions, and language.

>>6146858

They're modern as fuck.

>>6147121

posatmodern as fuck m8

>>6147058
>When did it change to 'you can strap a bomb onto yourself and blow up - this is a righteous act that will make a matyr!' grow up and out of?
When NATO states' capitalism achieved global hegemony and complete military dominance. Tech warfare renders all traditional warfare not only irrelevant but impossible.

>>6146973
Only when you quote out of the context of his overall work and the place the quote was found.He likely intended that so people would be more likely to read most of his stuff.

>>6147102
>maybe it started with the cia training al-qaeda in afghanistan to fight the russians?

Did the mujahideen use suicide bomb tactics though?

>>6147115

During the Iranian-Iraqi war? But even then that was a heavily nationalistic war with sectarianism only used as a thin veneer to attract able bodied but easily co-erced young men to the front. Certainly, most people knew that Saddams war was nothing more than a land and oil grab and the very life of the nation of Iran was at stake more so than any relgious squabble.

These young men were also Shia.

Terrorist suicidal bombings are almost exclusively a Sunni thing and at what point historically and in terms of the politics and theology did it jump from losing it's nationalism flavour to becoming the tool of your bogeyman terrorist organisation in the middle east?

ISIS is about as far from Neitzschen values as Neitzsche was from twat.
They're the very example of everything Neitzsche hated, and feared in society.

>>6147084
America doesn't want to bring troops back to Iraq. If the Senate were all for a full scale redeployment they would have been on that shit a while ago.
As it is now, Obama has to try to convince Congress to give him legal authority to launch a semi-full scale deployment.

>>6146998
you're wrong

>>6147074
>The Islam Nietzsche knows

It was nothing more than Orientalist lunacy.

>>6147014

Why?

>>6147111
Solidarity with their people against a common enemy. Anyway, very few of even the Western Muslims that join these militias like al-Qaida and IS(IS/IL) are upper-class, even upper-middle class.

>>6147112
Who is "they"? The mujahiddin? They were mostly illiterate peasants, they were mislead by the imperialists but the communists failed to reach out to them and educate them, so there are many faults, but of course the biggest fault is with the US.

>>6146898
>the quran condemns musicians to hell-fire...

That's not remotely true.

>>6146888
>So what's going on with all these Nasheeds then?

There are hadiths that have been interpreted as prohibitions of certain classes of musical instrument. Nobody objects to vocal music or certain kinds of drum.

In practice, of course, Muslim people and governments have overwhelmingly not had a problem with musical instruments. Plenty of scholars don't, either.

>>6146912
>Also, sufis are subject to death under sharia.
> Anonymous 02/15/15(Sun)18:32:38 No.6146912▶
>>6146955

>>6146899
>Also, sufis are subject to death under sharia.
>We're not arguing about what some heretics may do

Dumbest thing I've read on this board in quite a while, which is saying something.

>>6146794
I think maybe we need to start admitting to ourselves that Nietzsche isn't always right.

>>6147155

Because he's never been there.

>>6147150
>nothing more than Orientalist lunacy

Not really "lunacy" but Orientalist, certainly.

>>6147171
we've been doing that for 100 years now, it doesnt work.

>>6146898
>the quran condemns musicians to hell-fire...

That's not remotely true.

>>6146888
>So what's going on with all these Nasheeds then?

There are hadiths that have been interpreted as prohibitions of certain classes of musical instrument. Nobody objects to vocal music or certain kinds of drum.

In practice, of course, Muslim people and governments have overwhelmingly not had a problem with musical instruments. Plenty of scholars don't, either.

>>6146912
>Also, sufis are subject to death under sharia.
>We're not arguing about what some heretics may do

Dumbest thing I've read on this board in quite a while, which is saying something.

>>6147162
>In practice, of course, Muslim people and governments have overwhelmingly not had a problem with musical instruments. Plenty of scholars don't, either.

but the point is in a "perfect" islamic world, there would be no music, this is life denying asceticism. the fact that it is even something that has to be debated shows islam's tendency towards totalitarianism

>>6146938
>These problems run far deeper than whatever shallow analysis you ascribe to it.
>Where were these suicide bombers during the 1800s? During the early 1900s?
>What changed?

Talal Asad - On Suicide Bombing

A small book that you may find interesting.

>>6147198
>>Also, sufis are subject to death under sharia.
>>We're not arguing about what some heretics may do
>Dumbest thing I've read on this board in quite a while, which is saying something.

sick of people trying to make islam not look ascetic and oppressive by exaggerating the role of sufism in islam, they are a minor sect, there is no "sufi state" on the planet, and in places were sharia is in effect sufis are subject to death. the fact that you have to resort to this kind of misleading dishonesty shows you don't even truly believe the most oppressive parts of islam and desperate for an excuse to get out of them...just makes you look weaker.

>>6147210
>but the point is in a "perfect" islamic world, there would be no music

Whose 'perfect Islamic world'?

>>6147210
>in a "perfect" islamic world

According to the ones who strongly advocate that music is utterly and totally unacceptable then yeah.

The fact that there is debate and there isn't a neat and snug consensus obviously means that it isn't so easy to advocate one so completely -

>this is life denying asceticism

According to you who has taken the strictest interpretation.

Since when did asceticism become life denying anyway?

Are scientists who single mindedly pursue experiments, pay little heed to the humanities and/or otherwise try to reduce everything (art, music, literature) down to complex/simple mathematical formulae or instead focus and merely interpret them in accordance to electrical stimulation in the brain life denying as well?

>>6147243
>Are scientists who single mindedly pursue experiments, pay little heed to the humanities and/or otherwise try to reduce everything (art, music, literature) down to complex/simple mathematical formulae or instead focus and merely interpret them in accordance to electrical stimulation in the brain life denying as well?

i think would will find that according to nietzsche (which is by whose judgement of "life denying" we started) yes, read his critique of socrates in birth of tragedy

the truth is if nietzsche was around today he would support america, not some little slave revolt in the middle of a marginal desert

>>6146583
What was the culture at the Moors of Spain like? I don't know anything about it. Is there a good book on this that any of you know of? I'm interested now.

>>6147241
Mohammed's?

>>6147256
He'd probably prefer Russia.

>>6147264
could be, he might like china too

Moonspeak collectivist death cult bent on world domination =/= Atheist anthropocentric philosophy based on the will of the strong individual

Islam says no to life. The only reason they're able to commit these atrocities is because they believe in an afterlife. Nietzsche said yes to life. They're anti-Nietzscheans.

i bet half the dudes in isis right now would rather be in america sipping a mountain dew and trolling 4chan than carrying 80 pounds of gear across the desert praying not to get zapped by a drone, if they had a choice, but they don't, because they are not free men.

>>6147268
He did say he liked the Chinese workers in one of his books for being modest, but he would definitely be a hardcore Zionist today.

>>6147279
nietzsche as zionist, hmmm, yeah, i could see it

>>6147210
>but the point is in a "perfect" islamic world, there would be no music
There has never been a Muslim jurist, theologian, philosopher, anyone that concluded anything of the sort.

>the fact that X is even something that has to be debated shows Y's tendency towards totalitarianism

Not really.

>>6147273
>Islam says no to life.

Islam says yes to life but to strive to live under a certain set of rules - the afterlife is something to be striven for but not something to be hastily ran too nor are there shortcuts.

These suicide bombers who believe they are matyrs are completely delusional with that respect.

>>6147277

Pic related. Some of them seem to be having a good time.

>>6147286
then why is music banned by the taliban?

>>6147287
>>6147277

Then again, it really does depend. I remember reading an article a while back about a former western jihadi who went to join ISIS and ran away again when he was assigned wash-up duty.

>>6147287
>Islam says yes to life but to strive to live under a certain set of rules

so then it does say no to freedom

>>6147287
>giving the kids icecream

rofl, it must be too easy to run this shit show.

wonder how much pussy the old guys running it all are getting. rofl

>>6147269
omit individual from your post and you got it. individuals merely happen to be those who read books.

>>6147304
yeah, isis executed a bunch of uighur recruits recently who decided they didn't like jihad anymore and wanted to go to university in turkey instead and were promptly beheaded

>>6147294

Why was music banned by the puritans? It's not a part of Christianity.

>>6147294
It isn't.

>>6147306

Depends what your idea of freedom is.

Even in the west we are not 'free' as in freedom.

>>6147321

because the puritans were life-denying ascetics who nietzsche hated. your point is...what exactly?

>>6147322
but it is.

>>6147287
>I sell my freedom for ice cream
Fuck you.

That's pretty much how every totalitarian regime in history has bought followers, preying on the poor, desperate and ignorant with some little scraps.

Hitler did stop unemployment in Germany and the Soviet motto was "Peace Land and Bread". Freedom is worth much more than little scraps and empty promises.

>>6147277

I'd rather be a millionaire living of the coast of Greece with a harem of twinks, but I guess I'm not free enough to realize that.

>>6146894
wow confirmed for ISIDF

>>6147346
dude, in the west we find the idea of giving up our freedom and rights for a few sensual delights abhorrent, but for many races submission to slavery is just natural. i don't think we should fight some races natural instincts to be servile, that would be against nature.

>>6147342

My point is that the taliban don't get their ideas from islamic scripture any more than the puritans got theirs from christianity. It's all interpretation and political bullshit.

The taliban and ISIS have absolutely fuck all to do with islam, and everything to do with social control, millenialism and institutionalised brutality.

>>6147363
but isis is just following what mohammed did. if you don't like isis you don't like islam.

>>6147344
how do you know this?

>>6147358
>dude, in the west we find the idea of giving up our freedom and rights for a few sensual delights abhorrent

Sure.

It's all a false act to get rallied about though every so often but the fact is even with the revelations by Assange, the NSA etc apathy is still very much strong. We are having our freedoms threatened and taken away but in a different, more insidious, and less overt manner and this is also how we will 'progress' forward hand-in-hand with it so it seems entirely natural - for the next generation, and the generation after.

>>6147358
you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. kill yourself.

>>6147186
Maybe it's just the time I was raised in, but any orientalism just seems rather absurd.

>>6147374
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/afghan-musician-hopes-the-taliban-will-go-away-so-he-can-play-again

>>6147344
No, it isn't.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=taliban%20nasheed

>>6147358

You might as well attribute the character of a culture to their climate. The colder climates are too servile and the hotter too bold. Luckily in the USA the weather is temperate and so we posses the most developed ruling instinct. Am I right dude?

>>6147370

Stop watching Fox news and read some books m8. You clearly don't have any idea about islam, and you're just reinforcing the stereotype of the stupid american.

I bet you believe Birmingham is under Sharia law as well.

>>6147277
Im not sure the guy who sips mountain dew and Browses 4chan is truely free either.

>>6147358

>dude, in the west we find the idea of giving up our freedom and rights for a few sensual delights abhorrent

This is patently false in the modern age. Western culture is abhorrently materialistic and is only a few tiers below being as violent towards those who reject that materialistic doctrine as the Islamists they so vehemently denounce.

>>6147346

The idea of Jihad - fighting for the ummah, darusalaam, for the 'struggle' is still very much the forefront driving people to the middle east - not these twitter pics about ice cream. That some semblance of normality can be found is accessory. On the side you have the angsty edgy kids from the West with little identity running off to fulfill their twisted power fantasies and Islam has very ltitle to do with it (or at least it's a thing veneer of a excuse - lol call me muslim so now I can legit have something to do with them).

>>6147237

It's obvious that you've never taken a serious look at Sufism or at the history of Muslim societies. Don't waste your energy getting angry over something that you don't know anything about.

If you were a Muslim man living after the Mongol invasions, some sort of affiliation with some sort of Sufi order was pretty much taken for granted. Sufism was extremely influential at all levels of society, from the rural peasantry to the military to the merchant classes to the religious scholars and jurists. Even the figures from this period that Wahhabists today revere, such as Ibn Taymiyyah, were affiliated with Sufi orders. Sufi influence was all-pervasive and has only retreated somewhat during modern times.

>they are a minor sect

They're neither minor nor are they a "sect."

>there is no "sufi state" on the planet

The Ottomans patronized a number of Sufi orders, several of which developed close ties with certain organs of the state (e.g., the Bektashi tariqah and the Janissary corps.) The Safavids literally began as a Shafi'i-oriented Sufi order. Sufism was patronized by the Mughals, the Egyptian Mamluks, by various Moroccan and Andalusian dynasties... you'd be hard-pressed to find an Islamic government that wasn't connected to Sufi orders before the rise of the Saudi states beginning in the 18th century. This is equally (if not more) true of more marginal Muslim areas, like West Africa and Indonesia. Sufism wielded as much influence over Muslim governments and resistance movements as it did over philosophy and popular spirituality.

>and in places were sharia is in effect sufis are subject to death.

This is stupid in the first place because its not true. It's also stupid because it supposes that the shari'ah is a single law code that has been developed and implemented uniformly by different Muslim governments.

>the fact that you have to resort to this kind of misleading dishonesty

You're profoundly ignorant of the subject you're trying to discuss. You should read more.

>>6147384
>it's just the time I was raised in,

Or the propaganda you read ;P

>>6147363
I think what anon is trying to get at is that, unlike with the puritans and the crusaders and the corrupt church structure and all that, fundamentalist groups like ISIS actually ARE following the tenets of their religious text closely - more so than the so-called "non-extremists".

If someone were to make a "red words" version of the Qur'an with just the words of Muhammad (comparable to collection of Jesus' quotes in the Bible), and actually followed said "red words", they'd spend their entire life in a revenge-killing spree.

Muhammad was a conqueror, let's not forget that. He successfully built up a religious cult around himself and turned his small tribe into a highly effective force that managed to take down the entire Arabian peninsula under the loosely-defined guise of "cleansing" it. So, unsurprisingly, the man's words mostly deal with submission to him (as he's God's mouthpiece) and destroying his enemies.

Unlike Christian radicals who twisted the words of their faith to make cause for war, the Muslim radicals are actually being true to the original spirit of their religion. That's the key difference.

>>6147379
man, you sure are stupid, the obelisk represented new stages in human evolution, so that photo actually would be implying that personal computers are a new stage of human history (which is probably true, but it's not what a simpleton like you was intending). anyways, what "freedoms" have been taken away? gay marriage is legalized, marijuana is becoming legal, americans have expended health coverage via a market based choice, america is more free today than ever before in history.

>>6147394

They're even less free - that's why ISIS is so attractive to recruits from the west. They see it as a way to escape the plastic fantastic life of jobs and cellphone contracts and student debt and all the other bullshit that anchors people to their life and run away to adventure. Western young people are in the most bought-and-paid-for, repressed cage they've ever been in, chained to the system by created "needs"

They're the International Brigade of the now.

>>6147386

>jihadwatch

>>6147405
>he thinks enculturation is propaganda

>>6147262

Prove it.

>>6147402
What drives people to the Middle East (actually very few, most fighters are from the region) is the idea of having a cause to fight, but more importantly, the power and the perks that come with it.

You are very naive if you think religion alone movilizes these people. What they want is a place to belong to, to feel respected, powerful, and get what they feel is owed to them - good food and virgins.

They are not much different from any army of the Middle Ages, Mercenaries or Mongols in that respect. Everyone wants to get pussy, feel respected and feel that they belong somewhere. The religious narrative is just there to support and justify these feelings.

They are doing it for the plunder and the booty, as mankind has done since the beginning of time.

Yes, Isis and the Taliban are not simply a natural aspect of Islam as ignorant conservatives would have you believe, but neither is Islam innocent in this situation either as hypocritical liberals would have you believe.
Two sides politics leads to black & white thinking. Stop it.

>>6147424
http://maaref-foundation.com/english/library/ethics/greater_sins/16.htm

>>6147431
>Everyone wants to get pussy, feel respected and feel that they belong somewhere.

the difference between free people's in the west and oriental slaves is that in the west one obtains pussy, respect and belonging through productive achievement, innovation, art, while in the east one gains it by asceticism, violence and death.

>>6147409

Even the Sunnah is up for debate just like the interpretation of the Qu'ran.

>the man's words mostly deal with submission to him (as he's God's mouthpiece) and destroying his enemies.

This is false. Muhammed did not call for submission to himself but for God only and was very explicit in that. He did call for recognition as the final prophet though true but this is not the same as calling for submission to himself. The cult and reverence that built up after his death is just the same as that that would around any famous general/inspiration leader/political theorist etc

>>6147412

> so that photo actually would be implying that personal computers are a new stage of human history

The picture was made as a satire you idiot completely distanced from the the message and interpretations of 2001: A Space Odyssey. It's supposed to lampoon the idiots who clobber over Apple products like the chimps adoring a stone obelisk but of course a simpleton like yourself wouldn't be able to understand such subtle things like sarcasm and satire)/

>anyways, what "freedoms" have been taken away?

Technological freedoms and privacy. The software you use is not free. Your online profile and data built up around yourself is not free.

Refer also to the materialism of western culture and falling in step to fit in. How easy it is to be culturally isolated, rejected, labelled and scorned. This is not freedom.

>>6147409

This.

>>6147444
Please read Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence
http://en.bookfi.org/book/1294717

I really wish people would stop pretending like they know what they're talking about because they googled it.

>>6147409
This is all regurgitated fundamentalist ideology.

>>6147459
>Technological freedoms and privacy. The software you use is not free. Your online profile and data built up around yourself is not free.
>Refer also to the materialism of western culture and falling in step to fit in. How easy it is to be culturally isolated, rejected, labelled and scorned. This is not freedom.
The west could potentially be more free but it is without a doubt the most free place. And I'm not sure it is any more materialistic than it was in the past, there are simply more materials around. At least the culture is based off some really great thinkers instead of prophets.

>>6147455
You are right, but the basic motivation is the same. It's not a coincidence that totalitarian movements have done better in the West whenever there's a depression / economic crisis.

When people feel the doors for traditional achievement are closed they are more likely to sell away their rights for a quick fix.

I'm not trying to justify these animals, just to understand them.

>>6147409
>fundamentalist groups like ISIS actually ARE following the tenets of their religious text closely - more so than the so-called "non-extremists".

This is nonsense. They're interested in citing scripture and religious literature in support of their actions, but their actions are clearly driven by more worldly concerns: appearing state-like and manipulating their rivals through terror and outrage. This latter goal in particular requires them to transgress Islamic law as it has traditionally been understood, but they have to provide some religious cover for these transgressions. What result are flimsy justifications based on tortured interpretations of obscure bits of lore, cited under the pretense of 'reviving lost sunnahs.' Anybody with a brain can see what they're doing.

>If someone were to make a "red words" version of the Qur'an with just the words of Muhammad (comparable to collection of Jesus' quotes in the Bible), and actually followed said "red words", they'd spend their entire life in a revenge-killing spree.

This doesn't make any sense. Muhammad is hardly quoted or mentioned by name. Maybe you're thinking of the passages that begin with the injunction "say," which is a ton of them.

>cult around himself
>his... tribe
>mostly deal with submission to him

Doesn't look like you've read much about all of this.

>Unlike Christian radicals who twisted the words of their faith to make cause for war, the Muslim radicals are actually being true to the original spirit of their religion.

ebin

mind, BLOWN

>>6147444

Sorry, but that isn't Muhammad's website.

>people apologizing for ISIS ITT
Fuck I hate leftists sometimes. Go join ISIS if you love them so much.

>>6147459
the irony of your hate is that steve jobs was an arab, but one who was raised in america by white parents and who embraced life and moved humanity forward. if he had been born in the east he would have been raised to embrace death and move humanity backwards. so you doubly hate steve jobs, not only can you not afford apple products, he reminds you what arabs could be capable of if their minds weren't poisoned with the ideology of a centuries dead warlord.

>>6147507
sorry, but the quotes are the word of mohammed. if you like islam so much why are you grasping at excuses to not live it fully?

>>6147518
this is why i hate leftists even though i am probably a leftist myself.

>>6147518
That's exactly why the CIA created ISIS: as a tard magnet, and apparently it's working.

>>6147459
>The picture was made as a satire you idiot completely distanced from the the message and interpretations of 2001: A Space Odyssey. It's supposed to lampoon the idiots who clobber over Apple products like the chimps adoring a stone obelisk but of course a simpleton like yourself wouldn't be able to understand such subtle things like sarcasm and satire)/
It's sad you think this is more funny or interesting than the analysis he just gave.

>>6147518
>>people apologizing for ISIS ITT

Who exactly?

>>6147539
maybe he meant people apologising for islam.

jokes aside, hopefully we can agree it is not nietzschean, nevermind isis.

>>6147544
>maybe he meant people apologising for islam.

Yeah, that would be the level of retardation I'd expect from these people. They get so mad, then they're not in control of what they type.

>>6147518

Fuck Da'esh. I hope every member of that organization drowns in the blood of its victims. But pretending that theirs is some kind of 'pure Islam' is stupid and dangerous.

>>6147523

>sorry, but the quotes are the word of mohammed.

*looks*

>first quote attributed to 'Ali ar-Ridha
>second quote attributed to Ja'afar as-Sadiq

Anyway, do you understand that when hadiths were being compiled over the 7th-9th centuries, anyone could say anything and attribute it to Muhammad? Scholars and legal theorists came up with brilliant ways of assessing the reliability of these hadiths and weeding out spurious reports, but very little of what is specific in this literature can be attributed to Muhammad without any doubt. You're glossing over enormous epistemological issues to call these "the words of Muhammad." Presumably because you're not aware of them in the first place.

Sunni and Shi'i hadith literatures also differ in important ways. The link you posted is Shi'i.

>if you like islam so much why are you grasping at excuses to not live it fully?

>'living it fully' means uncritically accepting everything said about it by everyone ever

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/world/middleeast/islamic-state-video-beheadings-of-21-egyptian-christians.html

The lead executioner speaks in fluent English with an American accent, and his words are translated in Arabic subtitles. Under the title “A Message Signed With Blood to the Nation of the Cross,” he emphasizes that the fighters are just one part of the broader Islamic State group.

“Oh, people, recently you have seen us on the hills of as-Sham and Dabiq’s plain, chopping off the heads that have been carrying the cross for a long time,” he said, using Arabic terms for localities in and around Syria. “Today, we are on the south of Rome, on the land of Islam, Libya, sending another message.”

He implies that they are taking revenge for the killing of Osama bin Laden by American commandos and his burial at sea, saying, “The sea you’ve hidden Sheikh Osama bin Laden’s body in, we swear to Allah we will mix it with your blood.”

He even invokes prophecies favored by Islamic State leaders about an apocalyptic clash with the West: “We will conquer Rome, by God’s permission.”

>>6147533
>It's sad you think this is more funny or interesting than the analysis he just gave.

It's not supposed to be either you utter tard - that is what the fucking picture is about! A fucking satire about idiots adoring a slab (taking a hit at apple fanboys).

>>6147485
>but it is without a doubt the most free place.

No disagreement there. But on' you find it horrifying just how much spying is done on the average citizen, how very easy it would be to create (and they do) profiles on every citizen which could most certainly be used to blackmail and intimidate? To further an ideological propaganda cause?

>And I'm not sure it is any more materialistic than it was in the past

It's about easy accessibility and the proliferation of 'stuff' to escape into, and across all classes in this social scene.

>At least the culture is based off some really great thinkers instead of prophets.

And prophets. You'd be ignorant to deny the impact and holdovers, the artifacts and atavisms that religion has in 'western culture'. It's not like religions (any by extension the prophets behind them) haven't produced great thinkers either.

>>6147576
>>if you like islam so much why are you grasping at excuses to not live it fully?
>>'living it fully' means uncritically accepting everything said about it by everyone ever

if you don't want to live by islam then why are you a muslim? are you not freely choosing to be muslim? if not then i'm sorry you're a slave, if you are muslim by choice then embrace it and stop trying to find excuses for listening to kanye west and watching hollywood movies

>>6147592

>Leeeet me just go ahead and ignore the part of your post where you explain how dumb I'm being

>>6147590
>It's about easy accessibility and the proliferation of 'stuff' to escape into, and across all classes in this social scene.

stuff to "escape into"? like great literature? like 4chan? or do people only "escape into" expensive stuff you can't afford? check your resintiment, bro

>>6147576
>Anyway, do you understand that when hadiths were being compiled over the 7th-9th centuries, anyone could say anything and attribute it to Muhammad?

when the new testament was being composed anyone could say anything and attribute it to jesus, but since jesus wasn't a womanizing warlord, it was a lot harder to attribute brutal and insane shit to him...stop trying to act like all religions "are equally bad" or whatever, when clearly islam has violence and oppression built into it in a way that christianity just doesn't, i don't like christianity, but it's just dishonest to imply they are similar at all

>>6147590
>A fucking satire about idiots adoring a slab (taking a hit at apple fanboys).

i hope you're a troll trying to set up someone posting pics of the kabaah, otherwise you are really stupid...

i guess this is one of those "not sure if trolling" moments, either way i grew out of arguing with religious retards on the internet a long time ago, go join isis and have a blast, bro, i don't couldn't care less about you

>>6147635

>>6147258
Don't know of any books but is was basically the rightful continuation of Ancient culture with a Muslim tinge. Muslims were GOAT back then.

>>6147519
>steve jobs ... moved humanity forward.
applefag, pls go

>>6147624
>when the new testament was being composed anyone could say anything and attribute it to jesus

The process was completely different. The gospels are longer accounts, probably with single authors. Hadiths were shorter bits of information, often spent more time gestating as oral traditions, and were collected from many more people over a larger area.

>but since jesus wasn't a womanizing warlord, it was a lot harder to attribute brutal and insane shit to him...

Epic stuff, man. I can tell you're a thoughtful and intelligent guy.

>stop trying to act like all religions "are equally bad" or whatever, when clearly islam has violence and oppression built into it in a way that christianity just doesn't, i don't like christianity, but it's just dishonest to imply they are similar at all

I haven't brought up other religions at all before now, so I'm going to assume that this spergishness was meant for someone else.

>>6147518
Literally who?

>>6147658
muslims were only riding high for those centuries because europe was tranquilized under the fairy dust of christianity, once the beast stirred islam never stood tall again

>>6146549
Nice try ISIS but c/lit/s are too pasty and cowardly to be of any use to you

>>6147670
people who hate apple would be some protestant dickhead grumbling that the medici popes are decadent pagans who care about beauty more than christ, nietzsche would use a retina macbook pro

>>6147671
>Epic stuff, man. I can tell you're a thoughtful and intelligent guy.

can't counter the truth, resort to ad hominem, epic.

>>6147701
>people who hate apple
I'm indifferent to apple, but the Steve Jobs cult is insufferable.

>>6147709
the mohammed cult is insufferable, no one ever got their head cut off for not using an iphone

>>6147180
Have you been there?

>>6147706

can't argue, cherry pick the one thing you can slightly get your teeth into.

epic

>>6147714

Yup. I taught in Sichuan for a year.

>>6147722
so you think the fact that the founder of islam killed people and ruled as a dictator is just some insignificant "cherry picked" fact? seems like kind of a major issue to me, no other major religion is founded by someone who used violence to spread the word by force

>>6147712
nice comparison great argument you should write books and sell them very good work thank you for the opportunity to read your argumentative style and glean some stuff from it you are the best. thanks again,

>>6147258

'The Legacy of Muslim Spain' covers lots of different aspects of this history and culture. It's a big book but you can read from it selectively. Idk if it can be found online or not

>>6147731
>lying on an anonymous vietcong picture/text compiler

>>6147742
yo bro, you know android is made by a company run by da joos? are you sure it's islamic to use a jewphone?

>>6147734

I'm talking about the fact that you, or him, whatever, just picked on the ad hominem because the points made were too hard for your thinky-meat to handle.

It's interesting how after 9/11 we have a considerable, coincidental, rise of lay scholars of Islamic jurisprudence and hermeneutics. and how we see them so visibly on internet forums, of all places. My favorite analyses are the ones based on Islam's and Muhammad's "innate natures". It's good to know that technology has granted us all the ability to learn things and that we do sincerely learn about those things and don't make silly arguments from documents that we don't really know the meaning nor significance of, and that we don't wage silly crusades based on what amounts to hearsay.

>>6147753

Why would I lie? Look on any TEFL jobsearch board, it's easier to get a job in China than anywhere else. I needed the money and I thought it would be fun.

It wasn't really fun, but it was educational.

>>6147764
what other points? that islamic tradition is just a bunch of random quotes from a dictator? what do you think "quotation of chairman mao" was based on? mao said "mohammed conquered the world with a sword in one hand and a book in the other", it was his inspiration for the red book...and the third line was a non-point with no content, so ok, address the "quotation of chairman maoness" of the islamic tradition? why would you dedicate your life to follow some ideology that's ultimately just a collection of random antique quotes from who the fuck knows?

>>6147635
>i hope you're a troll trying to set up someone posting pics of the kabaah, otherwise you are really stupid...

It was a fucking picture posted on /g/ to take the piss out of apple fanboys being morons! Heck it might have been made there by a /g/entooman! How stubborn do you have to be and why do you not recognise that? That's all there is to it - there is no deep analysis behind it - there is no secret interpretation!

It's a fucking picture to take the piss out of apple fanboys!

Damn, some people are insistently stupid.

>>6147782

I'm not the guy you're arguing with, I was merely commenting on the weakness of your debating technique so just breathe a moment and find your centre, eh tiger?

>>6147759
seriously wow when is your first book coming out i must know i must place a pre-order and i will buy multiple copies and share them with my loved ones this is incredible all these mind blowing things you have to share i can hardly even believe you are letting loose some of it for free on an internet page you should save some of that for your books friend. again i want to thank you and again i will thank you once more. truly wonderful

>>6147734

>killed people

What is inherently wrong with killing?

>and ruled as a dictator

This is inaccurate and, obviously, a pejorative.

>no other major religion

There's nothing abnormal about prophets going to war. Consider the Tanakh.

>>6146875
>“The best” are no longer able fully to engage, while “the worst” engage in racist, religious, sexist fanaticism.
Discrimination is the critical faculty: the judging faculty of command.
We've banned ourselves from drawing embarrassing conclusions, yet are somehow surprised that we can't judge or sentence any more...
Think about your vehemence in refusing to consider certain ideas. If they're wrong, what's the harm in judging and dismissing them? But you persist in swallowing other people's self-serving ideas whole.

>>6147801

sorry dude, not everyone on lit is a wannabe writer like you, anyways, don't let me keep you from working on your next amazon self-published masterpiece

>>6147734
>so you think the fact that the founder of islam killed people and ruled as a dictator is just some insignificant "cherry picked" fact?
That's not what he said but, anyway, neither of those things are necessarily bad.

>seems like kind of a major issue to me, no other major religion is founded by someone who used violence to spread the word by force
It's interesting because Muslims famously made both doctrinal and political points for not forcing people to convert to Islam. How do you explain that the area ruled by the Mughals has always had a majority Hindu population?

>>6147815
>What is inherently wrong with killing? There's nothing abnormal about war

nothing, and if there is nothing wrong with going to war then there is nothing wrong with obama bombing the fuck out of isis, syria and anyone else who fucks with israel, so see you on the battlefield, my man.

>>6147826
>How do you explain that the area ruled by the Mughals has always had a majority Hindu population?

Because if they tried to convert them all it would have caused a revolt, the hindus already crushed buddhism and drove it out of india, you think they won't crush islam too? oh, wait, they did, all the muslims where put into the shitty little ghetto known as "pakistan", since they couldn't handle democracy

>>6147855
The founding of Pakistan is just a bit removed from Mughal rule, don't you think? Are you sure you're not being a bit disingenuous?

>>6147855
>Because if they tried to convert them all it would have caused a revolt
What happened to spreading Islam by the sword?

>>6147875
again, they couldn't convert everyone without a mass revolt, an ancient pagan religion like hinduism didn't survive until today by converting to whatever religion the empire of the moment is peddling

>>6147846
>>6147782
>what other points? that islamic tradition is just a bunch of random quotes from a dictator?
>why would you dedicate your life to follow some ideology that's ultimately just a collection of random antique quotes from who the fuck knows?

Can you understand why it's difficult to have an actual conversation with people like you? The way that you talk about these things is so tendentious and butthurt that there's no opportunity for dialogue. Your mind is already made up. All there's left to do is listen to you make stupid, reductive remarks like these and demand to be proved wrong. Can't say that I'm interested in that.

>>6147846
>nothing, and if there is nothing wrong with going to war then there is nothing wrong with obama bombing the fuck out of isis, syria and anyone else who fucks with israel, so see you on the battlefield, my man.

lol I don't even know what this is.

>>6147883
too many people to kill is what happened, india has been the most populous region of the world since the dawn of history, even if they might have been able to genocide all the hindus who will work the fields?

>>6147893
>Your mind is already made up

oh, right, but your mind is very open...

>>6147888
>an ancient pagan religion
>hinduism
>didn't survive until today by converting to whatever religion the empire of the moment is peddling

>>6147893
>lol I don't even know what this is.

you're arguing that killing and war is good, well, ok, if it's good then you won't mind when america invades syria and bombs the shit out of all your bros?

>>6147907
what's the matter, not an expert on india? i guess hinduism isn't edgy enough for a radical teen like you? read a book, fucktard.

>>6147904

What makes you think it isn't?

So is there any actual objectivity in Nietzsche at all when it comes to morality? Is a religious person who acts the opposite to his doctrine a good person? Is an atheist who believes in the more "relative" aspects of Christianity (that is to say relative to the world of man, things like humility and wisdom and justice and things such as that which are extolled by Christianity or other such doctrines) a bad person for aligning to Christian morals?

I don't mean to be obtuse but Neitzsche is apparently taken out of context all the fucking time, and I would like some perspective before I dive headfirst into his works.

>>6147898
Are you asking a question? I don't even understand what you're trying to say after the first part, but you didn't really satisfy the contradiction between Muslims being murderous genocidal barbarians and Muslims spreading Islam with the sword. Which is it?

>>6147914
Literally everything that you said was wrong. We both know you're projecting.

>>6147929
man, you sure are stupid

>>6147925
what makes you think mine isn't?

>>6147933
the vedas are the oldest religious text on the planet, deal with it.

>>6147910
>you're arguing that killing and war is good

Didn't say that ladm8

>if it's good then you won't mind when america invades syria and bombs the shit out of all your bros?

They can step up their anti-Da'esh campaign without any objection from me. They're already bombing them.

>>6147941
Unfortunately, I can't understand how to read your train of thought. It's common practice on this board to sort out your thoughts using sentence structure and grammar consistent with English.

>>6147947

The objections I raised to your last post.

>>6147959
maybe you just aren't that good at reading, or really you just pretend not to understand when you don't have anything to say

>>6147953
I know you're not aware of this, but what we call Hinduism isn't Vedic religion.

>>6147958
oh, are you some british muslim that feels guilty for living the prosperous life brought about by jewish banking and protestant ethics? it's ok buddy, don't beat yourself up and waste your life doing an islamic studies degree over it, lol, everybody knows islam is stupid, but we still like you as a person

>>6147967
I'd rather not entertain your conspiracy theories. Sometimes it's really not someone else's fault that you write like shit.

>Nietzsche supports slavery
>Islamic state is practicing slavery
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e3_1414916005

They're nietzschean in almost every way possible.

>>6147966
i'm sorry you can't take a little pushback, but look, you even admit most of islamic tradition is just random quotes made up by random dudes centuries after mohammed lived, i'm only going by what you're telling me, if you dont like it that doesn't mean my mind isn't open...i'm listening to what you're saying, it just sounds stupid.

>>6147976
what, i can't understand your writing? what does that even mean?

>>6147986
>>6147990
>/lit/ arguing with an obvious underage

>>6147973

No, I'm American. Don't be thrown off by ladm8.

>>6147986
>you even admit most of islamic tradition is just random quotes made up by random dudes centuries after mohammed lived

I mean, there were random dudes making up random quotes centuries after Muhammad lived. There were also credible dudes passing along credible bits of information. This is a vulgarized description of the environment in which the tradition took form—not something that it can be reduced to.

>if you dont like it that doesn't mean my mind isn't open...i'm listening to what you're saying, it just sounds stupid.

You're being obtuse.