/lit/ - Literature

Average power level of Harvard graduate, c. 1930: 10,000,000

Average power level of Harvard graduate, c. 2015: 35

Average power level of b-rank university, c. 2015: 26

Average power level of community college, c. 2015: 7

TAKE THAT PLEBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY WEALTHY PARENTS ENSURED I TOOK THE SATs SIXTEEN TIMES AND CULTIVATED THE APPROPRIATE EXTRACURRICULARS TO GO TO THE SCHOOL WITH THE BEST NETWORKING OPPORTUNITIES AND GET THE SAME USELESS FUCKING SINECURE HUMANITIES DEGREE AS THE NEXT 75 RANKED SCHOOLS ON THE LIST

NOW I AM THE TRUE UR-PATRICIAN *GETS MASTERS DEGREE IN COMPARATIVE LITERATURE, NEPOTISTICALLY BECOMES UNINSPIRING UPPER MANAGEMENT AT DAD'S COMPANY*

if you are so bitter why don't you switch to stem??

>>6133590
>doing a humanatees degree
>thinking immigrant infested britain is superior
>not being part of the glorious STEM masterrace

ishyggddiggydoohoo

Ivy Leaguer here. There are some insanely intelligent, obsessive people doing cutting edge STEM research here, but most students aren't any better than the students who are earning A's state schools. I often wonder how some of the people here managed to gain admission.

>>6133590

S'up?

I swear, I'll geld anyone I catch in the act of hiding a book at Robarts.

being mediocre is based

when you succeed there's always someone above you that wants to use you and someone below you that wants to leech off of you
plus success leads to pride which leads to an inevitable downfall when you realize you're not as invincible as you thought you were.

>>6134504
plus it's all vanity anyway

the best you can be as far as "intelligence" goes is an idiot savant . . . "insanely intelligent" at one thing and mediocre in everything else.
Goethe's Faust lays it out best when he says that he's realized that there is no real wisdom in all the talk of these university people, and so he resorts to the occult for wisdom . . . ends up fucking over some poor woman. Yeah, that's where this stupid ambition for wisdom/intelligence gets you, no better than scum.
This is why virtue is more important than intelligence. Being intelligent is like being tall or beautiful . . . it's a nice gift but it means nothing.

getting into a high ranked university is incredibly easy if your family has an upper class culture. same with getting your kids into a top university, if you make sure they're doing the right things. the very smartest people do go to those schools, but the average student, while a lot smarter than the average person in general (no doubt, a lot smarter) is hardly intellectually impressive.

clever people proud of their brains are more stupid than beautiful women proud of their looks and strong men proud of their muscles

how can you be so clever and yet not realize the vanity of being clever . . .

what does being clever do for you?
nothing; you just become a tool for a power that you don't understand like everyone else

>>6134587
That's actually pretty good. Because they don't say it in a pragmatic way, I'm happy I'm clever because i can get money and get a pleasurable life for myself. They like being clever for its own sake.

>tfw acceptance letter to harvard
>tfw too poor to go
>tfw loans scare me

>>6134423
>U of T
>even remotely on the same level as Oxbridge
How delusional can you get? The Arts department at U of T is subpar to the TDSB high school I attended

>>6134520
Savant retard master-race
>community college transfer for neuroscience
>never show up to class
>read everything off of wikipedia
>do lots of drugs and disappoint parents
>perfect gpa in hs but never applied for any scholarships because can't stand paperwork

>>6134650
>get money and get a pleasurable life for myself

They have nothing to do with being clever.

>>6134692
Harvard is one of the few institutions that pretty much guarantee some type of good employment after graduating. Don't let your potential get quashed just because you're scared to be in debt--especially when you already got accepted to a school that is world-renowned.

>>6134731
Also, with these being said, everyone in this thread is just some slightly intelligent ass-cake with realized modesty syndrome acting like they're at a ledge where it's now safe to assume superiority and bury it to pretend it never existed. Give up on trying to not be academic snobs you dorks. You'll never escape the pretension trap. Ya'll best just be embracing it. It's dunning-kruger to not once you're acquainted with the concept.

>Anglo unis
>not studying philosophy in Venice, sipping wine and discussing post-structuralism with your mates while embracing the sunset reflected in the water

>>6133696

Money.

>>6133696
>I often wonder how some of the people here managed to gain admission.
Connections.
Being black.

>2220 SAT
>Community College

Feelsbad

>>6134692
>EVERY STUDENT ADMITTED TO HARVARD WHO IS JUDGED TO BE IN FINANCIAL NEED IS GIVEN ASSISTANCE. Assistance is based solely on financial need, not on superior academic (or other) achievement. Harvard expects students with financial need to earn and borrow a certain amount of money each year and have their parents contribute a set amount (if judged capable of doing so). After that point, grants are awarded, the result rarely being a full scholarship, but ALWAYS a package that permits EVERY admitted student to attend Harvard without unreasonable financial sacrifice, need for a full-time job or excessive borrowing.

http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/womswim/recruiting/myths.html

>>6134504
>>6134520
You sound like the most original moralist in your region.

Pls be in London.

>>6134748
He's obviously lying. Harvard only admits like 5% of applicants, and when they do, they usually give their students a very large financial aid package.

>>6134770
I got 2320. I really want to go to Cornell

>>6134707
>projecting

Check OP's picture ya dingus.

>>6134803
Are you still in high school? GPA dude. It's more important than anything. No matter what they say, it is. I had 13 AP courses, passed all the tests with 4s or higher, had never been in any non-honors class, played football and volleyball, wrote a pretty solid (although not up to standard) statement, and had a shit ton of extracurriculars, but my 3.5ish GPA made it so that I didn't get into anywhere, including fucking Illinois and Cal Poly SLO.

If you don't have a good GPA, and you're white (assuming you are), you're dead m8.

I went to Cambridge. The place is full of complete retards. The only upsides from an intellectual point of view are one-on-one supervision (and at shit colleges even those are shit, being supervised by doctorate students etc), high workload, and excellent libraries. Most undergraduates have absolutely no serious interests at all and scrape their way through their degree while spending most of their time on debauched nights out at Cindies.

>>6134755
>ya'll

why do people do this to me

>>6134844
Holy fuck man I have 3.6 GPA. I'm currently studying at an excellent boarding school.

>>6134870
Well that makes a difference too. I went to a middling public school. We had a really strong upper level group of teachers, but the lower students were low enough to fuck the ranking up. Best of luck to you. If it doesn't work out, go to a CC for a year, get a good GPA, and transfer in as a Junior. Saves money anyway.

this thread was everything I morosely hoped for. good work everybody.

props to all anon who called out U of T, good eyes

>>6134870
Know what the difference between an excellent boarding school and an okay boarding school is? The "excellent" one cared to pay for kind, printed words.

>>6133590
>>6134423
But how is U of T? I'm considering going there next year for math graduate school and I've never been to Toronto. From the US.

>>6134844
>3.5
>white

>Denied UIUC

You also fucked up the ACT, too. Don't think I didn't notice.

>>6135802
I didn't even take it. No need with that SAT.

>>6134692
Harvard is need blind

>tfw 23 and probably fucked forever

Feels wierd. At least I'm charismatic but that will probably stop helping placate the uneasiness/coming depression in a decade or less.

>>6135496
its one of the best universities in Canada. Not sure what its like for maths though

>>6135861
Need blind just means that your ability to pay doesn't factor into admissions. Their financial aid is great, yes, but that's not what need blind means.

>tfw could easily get into Oxbridge for a postgrad degree that I don't want to do, and now have to go to a sub-par university because it will be better for my career

>tfw studying humanities at #1 CS school in the world
>tfw most students are legitimately brilliant, interesting, from diverse backgrounds and awesome to get to know (or they are athletes, and that changes things).
>tfw dad expects me to STEM, and is paying 20k/year for me to go to school here and the pressure is real
>tfw fucking hate silicone valley culture, low-key jealous of my friends starting companies and already making millions, but think that coding is vapid, unfulfilling work

It's a really fucking strange collection of feels.

>>6137237
All of this just means you don't belong. No big deal, just bow out gracefully.

>>6137237
not really, you're just jealous you can't do what they do, that your skills aren't as disproportionately rewarded as theirs are

simple jealousy

>>6137237
> silicone

Wut. Also as someone who grew up in the bay and now works in tech, stop bitching. There's plenty of lit/culture happening up in SF if you go look for it

>>6137237
Pr0 tip - don't be a coder then. Become an engineer. Get a work on some building site - it's nice, not very tiring, but you don't have to sit on chair whole day, it's well paid, and after work you come home with fresh mind to pursue patriciousness.

>>6137241
You may be right. I know a pretty significant portion of the school shares my sentiments though, and because of that the administration is constructing a "Humanities themed house" next year. No clue what that really means, guess we'll see.
>>6137254
Well, obviously I don't think that's true. I have the CS minor already completed and finished every CS class I took with an A or better. I know that it's difficult to equate classroom success with real-world success, but I can assure you that I have helped friends code in business; I know what Google/Facebook/Twitter are looking for in undergraduate hires, and I surpassed that point long ago.

It's desire, not skill.

I am jealous that the things that I love doing and want to do "aren't as disproportionately rewarded as theirs are," though, so you are definitely right there. Jealously is certainly a part of it.

>>6137260
I wasn't bitching about SF. I'm bitching particularly about Stanford's culture, and the way the student body is affected by silicon valley. I love the bay area, and I'm glad to live near it. The University is kind of trapped in a bubble (if, like me, you don't have a car and have a shit tonne of work to do for classes), and that's what irritates me.
Here's a good Harvard Crimson article on the issue at hand:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/10/30/stanford-vs-harvard/

>>6137275

Be an admin, spend your days waiting for something to happen, reading and masturbating. Congratulations, you just won life.

>>6137284
Doesn't that sounds fucking miserable to you?

For those of you doing literature at uni, would you say it has been worth it?

>>6137268
See, I'm not really concerned about employability the way most humanities majors on /lit/ need to be. I guess the feel is a little more abstract than I was giving it credit for. I know I can excel in basically any field, what I want is something that could possibly bring happiness/fulfillment/contentment/personal realization perhaps on a different level. That's why this feel is so confusing, and why I can't just describe it as jealousy. Maybe jealousy in that I see people who are happy coding and wish that I could be that way, but not really jealously for a comfy life, if that makes sense. I know any job I choose will dominate my life because that's just the kind of person I am, so it's particularly difficult to accept a job like engineer.

Maybe that makes sense, maybe it sounds like bullshit. I'm trying to express a peculiarly conflicted feeling without fiction, and that's pretty fucking tough.

>>6137520
Well, being a construction worker in summer gave me a lot of contentment, you are building something for people to use, it gives you a sense of purpose of your work, there is lots of fun and its a healthy workout. I think i was happier with this work than my current scientific work. For everybody his own though, i guess.

>>6137312
Decent paying job where you can read a lot? I think many people here would gladly take it.

>>6137580
I see what you are saying regarding construction work. I enjoy the gardening work that I've done part time, but at the end of the day I still just feel as though I've wasted time (and this may be a more broad philosophical stance than I'm able to justify through text on 4chan).

A decent paying solitary job where I could read and discuss literature primarily on lit? The best part of reading a book is arguing/talking about it with others, preferably those who know what they are talking about. I honestly just think that would be a lonely life.

>>6137661
Well, I don't think there are many jobs that are about talking about books. Just take some litereture classes and make friends there. Or even better, get a reading gf. There is nothing better than lying in bed, drinking, having sex and talking about philosophy.

I kind of want to go to college. I don't think I'm smart enough though.

oggsford English literature here
>tfw one of my tutors invited me to his house because he's "busy"
>tfw he is a Louis Spence lookalike and soundalike
do I go?

>>6137815
Bro, i've seen true retards graduate college. It's not about being smart, it's only about effort.

>>6137867
I don't have a very good work ethic nor many extracurricular stuff like clubs or what have you

>>6137903
America is so grim that extracurriculars actually matter
here in the UK it's grades, personal statement and interviews/entrance exams

>>6137916
I think I had somewhere like a 3.6 gpa

>>6137867

Conversely, I graduated college by being lazy as fuck but not retarded. I did piss poor work that has left me with a lasting sense of selfhate, waste, and disappointment, but at least I have a degree, right?

>>6133590
Who else University of Minnesota here?

>>6137903
Well, anybody can pass in bad enough college. My father needed enineering degree for work so he went to some obscure college where he passed B2 english exam knowing "How do you do you?" and "My name is Luca". Literally.

>>6137360
a-anyone?

>>6137985
I love it
but I will come out with a good job because of oxford & networking rather than the course

>>6137997
What kind of jobs are there?

>>6137997
I'm not to bothered about career prospects. Not like my situation can get worse in that regard (and uni is practically free so i won't be getting into debt for it)I was looking into a sandwich year, for that year of work experience anyway.

>>6138014
I could easily join any political party right when I graduate and become an MP eventually, some of my friends have pretty scary connections

tbh probably gonna do something for the BBC or a newspaper, both pay well and are interesting

>>6138038
looks like you're living the dream anon

>>6137985
>Oxb

I can't believe how often this comes up. there is an unlimited army of high school kids and first-year college kids ignorant enough to consider studying literature. but I still enjoy replying because I was one of those kids.

anon, there are only three conditions making it OK for you to major in lit. 1) you are at an ivy league or Oxbridge. 2) you want law 3) you do not care about financial stability postgraduation.

if you are at a non-elite school and you enroll in humanities expecting a job, you are ruining your life.

if you have any STEM aptitude, major in that and do lit as a minor, a double-major, or a dedicated hobby. if you have no STEM aptitude, take up a trade.

if your goals are to become some kind of a full-time writer and you intend to do it by paying for a 4-year degree, listen to me carefully: you are ruining your life.

>>6138041
:)
we're all going to make it, anon

>>6138046
I have no STEM aptitude and am not really interested in it. Even if i could get a good job (which i think is over-stated by STEMfags), it would be something i hate doing.

The type of uni you go to is truly overstated as well. No one cares what uni you went too, unless it is oxbridge which does give you an edge, so most others are on an even playing field.

More about connections, experience and your overall grade.

>>6138072

white-collar employers hiring undergraduates are looking exclusively for STEM, business/economics, or prestigious universities.

if you are not any of those things but you're the valedictorian of your school, you still have a shot.

you should not pay for university banking on the chance that you will be valedictorian. if you study humanities, you are burning 4 years of life and tuition money and then starting all over again when you realize you have nothing to offer an employer looking for more than HS education.

>>6138072
Just read any website with job announcments. Half of them is for IT guys.

>>6138093
>if you study humanities, you are burning 4 years of life and tuition money and then starting all over again when you realize you have nothing to offer an employer looking for more than HS education.

I don't really have job opportunities at the moment though, it's not like my situation can get worse.

>>6138110
Well, if it was free I'd say go for it. It's not worth bazilion bucks though IMO.

>>6138126
Well i'm from the UK so technically i have to get loans, but the conditions are so favourable it's free. If you don't get a half decent job out of it at least. You only pay back if you earn over 21k, and then only a small percentage of your earnings.

>>6138110

ok, acknowledged. but here's the corollary: whatever you think you can get out of a humanities degree, you can get faster, cheaper, and better on your own.

save the tuition money. earn money on your own by working a sales job. dedicate yourself to reading and writing. draw on university course syllabi as starting points.

by taking your pursuit seriously and not being distracted by socialization, you will be ahead of 90% of paying students.

>>6138139
Thats true if you have a strong will and motivation. College is a pretty great time in life though. I'd say go for it, you will make contacts and have fun.
Also there are some jobs where you need a degree - of any kind. Its always nice to have this piece of paper if you don't need to pay for it.

>>6137717
Yeah. That's why I want to stay in academia, pretty much. Anyway, thanks for the conversation. This was a nice discussion. You also made my girlfriend laugh, so.

2.8 GPA high school.
2360 SAT.
No extracurriculars.
Got into every Ivy League Uni because of mummy and daddy.
Currently study Lit & Philosophy at Yale. Will find out if I get accepted into the phd philosophy program at Cornell in March.
Feels good to be rich. Love nepotism.

>do average to well in gymnasium
>go to local university because why the fuck not
>get Physics degree

Feels okay I guess.

>>6138764
>getting a GPA at high school
>spelling it "mummy"
clearly a brit pretending to be a yank lol get a life loser

>>6138854
How am I brit, you insecure faggot?
>you can't type a particular way if you're not from that country

>>6138854
>implying his dad's life partner aren't the embalmed remains of a 6000 year old egyptian monarch

On a side note, let me quickly pitch an idea to Seth McFarlane.

>>6138860
you use british spellings m8

>>6138891
Fuck off, m8, you're genuinely retarded.

>>6138874
kek

>>6138895
>m8
and you say you're not british

>>6138909
>there are no boards besides /lit/
>/int/ doesn't exist
I knew /lit/ was overall pretty retarded, but you take the cake, bruh.

>>6138917
what the fuck are you rambling about now?

>>6138921
I don't even know. I'm drunk.

>>6134803
Your chances of admittance are good if you happen to live in a state (or country) 1.) from where they receive proportionally few apps and 2.) the median 50%-ile score range is relatively low.

>>6134803
I'm at Cornell. What college are you applying to?

>>6137975
tank nug?

>>6137975
I'm going to go to grad school there. Do you like it?

>>6137237

>Stanford culture

I feel you bro. I'm a math Ph.D. student here at Stanford, trying to make my escape from academia into tech, while writing articles on film theory and semiotics and working on a novel. I feel pulled in a million directions. The culture here sucks in some ways, but maybe it's good to suffer through it for 7-9 years, make your fortune (even just $5 mil is enough), then retreat to a subsistence farming situation where you can write in peace.

>>6139673
>while writing articles on film theory and semiotics and working on a novel.
No you're not

>>6139954

>no one can have talent and interest in both STEM and the humanities

I understand why you need to believe that.

>>6139999

No I think he's saying you're just another blowhard coffeeshop writer who's always talking shit about what he's working on, but nobody ever sees the work.

That's my take on what he was questioning, anyway.

Considering that many well-regarded novelists have a background in the sciences, even /lit/ isn't stupid enough to say that "no one can have talent and interest in both STEM and the humanities".

>>6140007
Basically this.
It's so easy for that faggot to say he's writing articles on film theory and semiotics, but that's it: it's just talk, meaningless, and he expects us to take his categorical word that he's writing articles on those subjects. Basically that person is a retarded faggot trying to elevate his own mediocrity on this board

>>6139673
unsolicited advise: stick to your tech job

>>6140007

>you're just another blowhard coffeeshop writer who's always talking shit about what he's working on, but nobody ever sees the work.

I guess I'm guilty as charged. I mean I do work hard, but it's a lot easier for me to start than to finish work, and my main project right now is my Ph.D. thesis.

>many well-regarded novelists have a background in the sciences

Who were you thinking about? I think the only example I know is Musil.

>>6140042
I'm sure you don't really know Musil other than a quick search, but had you stayed on Google for more than 5 seconds you would have discovered more writers. Stay a joke bruh

>>6140042

Primo Levi, Nabokov, Lewis Carroll and Keats all come immediately to mind.

People like Heinlein and Clarke are sci-fi writers so morons would say "ah yeah genre fiction" and meme-arrow it, but there you are.

Google would probably find another dozen in a second or two.

>>6140042
>Who were you thinking about? I think the only example I know is Musil.

Who is Thomas Pynchon

>>6140046

I actually do know Musil; I read The Confusions of Young Torless and the first volume and the first two hundred pages or so of the second volume of The Man Without Qualities.

I'll even share an anecdote with you about my personal experience with Musil. A few years ago, when I was still doing online dating, I sent a message to some girl whose username was Diotima something or other, and in my message I was asking her all these questions about what she found appealing about Musil and how she felt his work contrasted with other novels mourning the European aristocracy that vanished with World War I, like The Leopard and The Transylvanian Trilogy.

She didn't reply, and some time later I finally read the Symposium and learned about THAT Diotima (to which Musil's choice of the name Diotima is of course a reference).

But seriously, I don't really get your hostility.

>>6140042
>many well-regarded novelists have a background in the sciences
Bulgakov and Chekhov were both doctors.

>>6140073
I don't care what you have to say bruh, I can tell you don't know shit about Musil but that's beside the point. I wouldn't want to discuss Musil with you because I can tell from that post that is basically all you can really say about him. Anyways, give us evidence of one your articles on semiotics or film theory

>>6140066

Does Pynchon really have a background in the sciences though? I remember a passage on Euler or something from Against the Day that sounded like he didn't have much more background than Wikipedia articles. And it's been a while since I read Gravity's Rainbow but I don't think there was anything in there that required him to know much actual physics.

>>6140052

Yeah, I'd forgotten about Lewis Carroll. Primo Levi is actually a really good example and I wasn't familiar with him before. Nabokov doesn't really qualify because according to Wikipedia he had only like one year of a zoology degree, and I would never have guessed that from anything in his novels. I'm unsure about Keats as well.

>>6140066
>Thomas Pynchon

I know /lit/ is always desperate to get pinecone into every thread, but everyone knows that he studied English at Cornell. Everyone who's read Slow Learner anyway.

Celine and William Carlos Williams were both doctors. I think Burroughs had science/medical training as well.

There's loads of scientist/writers out there.

>>6140099

Nabokov was one of the premier lepidopterists of his age. Apparently his work on sexing some butterfly or other is still the standard reference at Harvard or MIT.

Your being unsure about Keats doesn't mean a thing since your posts are increasingly demonstrating that there are a lot more things in the world you don't know than there are things you do.

>>6138764
What's the appeal of Cornell now that Ted Sider is going to Rutgers? This year in particular admissions there are more competitive than the faculty merits.

>>6140085

To be honest I haven't thought about Musil in a while and wouldn't claim to really understand him. I just happened to read him a few years ago and was really struck by his depiction of a certain kind of alienation. "The soul is that which disappears at the mention of algebraic series." I have returned to that as I've gotten progressively more disillusioned with academic mathematics.

>give us evidence of one your articles on semiotics or film theory

I am not published in those fields and never claimed that I was, but I do have a couple of ongoing projects that I wouldn't mind seeking to publish one day.

One thing I am working on is a computational approach to semiotic analysis in the context of certain small and highly connected oeuvres. Like I am currently trying to work with a French language dictionary databases to identify the different ways in which the principal symbols of Baudelaire's poetry are related to each other.

You can computationally identify all words with an etymological or semantic link to "parfum", for example, and then to "fleur", and then to "mort". That part is easy. But then parsing the following lines from La Charogne:

"Et le ciel regardait la carcasse superbe / Comme une fleur s'épanouir"

and describing how this line drawn between two symbols, so to speak, differs from other lines drawn elsewhere in his work... turns out to be a fairly difficult, but doable problem, if you use the established toolbox of machine learning.

>>6140128
There are a few people that specialize in meta-ethics that I want to work with. I've met them a few times at some conferences and I get along just fine with them.

>>6140111

>there are a lot more things in the world you don't know than there are things you do.

For sure mate, I would be the first person to admit that.

That's interesting about Nabokov. Does he mention that in Speak, Memory or...? It makes him sound like a villain from something by Henry James.

>>6140099
>>6140103
He did a year of engineering physics before the war then switched to English. He was a technical writer for Boeing after college so a lot of people see that as science-y. Basically he knows just enough physics to make it seem like he knows a lot of physics to people who don't know much physics.

>>6140140

Read Nabokov's Butterflies by Some Dudes I Can't Remember the Name Of. It's pretty much the definitive book about Nabokov's science and how it connected to his work.

He was big on chess as well, not that that's relevant, or surprising in a Russian.

>>6140147
>He did a year of engineering physics before the war then switched to English

I studied Mechanical Engineering for a year before I did an English Degree. I wouldn't go round calling myself a scientist or an engineer.

Pynchon's not relevant, no matter how much /lit/ wants him to be in every thread.

>>6140099
>because according to Wikipedia

>>6140154
>pynchons not relevant
Thank god. I know a few other people share this sentiment, but this board would be better off without people shoehorning DFW and Pynchon in every thread.

>>6140154
Not sure about the hostility because I think you're agreeing with me.

>>6140159

I'm not being at all hostile m8. I think you're just expecting me to be because it's 4chan.

what kind of jobs are you guys considering? Jobs with the federal govt., technical writing, what?

>>6140158
I really like them but I agree. "Hurr durr meme author xP" is just as fucking dumb though.