/lit/ - Literature

>>6125841
>or what do you believe?
I believe in Isvara and am guided by that being.

The jews are lost and the muslims are deceived

>>6125841
He was a false prophet who led an immoral life, he should not be followed. Islam is a carnal religion for men who only wish to satisfy their carnal needs.

>>>/x/

>>6125841
>Do you believe Muhammad was any kind of prophet?

A Satanic one.

>Do you believe he was a fraud but wasn't necessarily pure evil or of the devil?

At best, he was a useful idiot.

>Do you think he was just plain crazy and truly believed that Gabriel was speaking to him?

Satan was speaking to him, not Gabriel.

>Do you believe that he is the devil's prophet sent to establish Satan's church on Earth?

Obviously.

>>6125841
>Hello my fellow Christians
>On a Tongan cartoon porn forum
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>>6125889
this

>>6125889
Anon please.

>>6125889
Reminder that Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors

>>6125895
This.

>>6125889
This.

>>6125889
Society outside of the chans is sinful too. Might as well tell all Christians to live as monks in monasteries all day.
See >>6125895

Q: What does one use when fishing for men?
A: Bait
XD rotflmao

>>6125969
why did you bump the thread

>>6125969
This anon gets it.

I just find it sad they they completely rewrote Jesus and denied his pain and suffering on the cross, claiming some malarkey about someone taking his place at the last minute.

That just reeks of trying too hard to come up with some conspiracy theory in order to let Muhammad sneak in as a prophet before slamming the door behind him.

He placed doubt in who Jesus Christ was, and then claimed himself to be the last prophet.

How much more obvious can you get in your ploy for power and manipulation?

>>6125841
Muhammad was the Kanye West of prophets.

He was a douchebag.

>the lack of memes in this thread

>>6126278
>Muhammad was the Kanye West of prophets.
No, he was the Seal of the Prophets.
My power, my pleasure, MY PAIN

>>6126083
I think the bigger issue is Jesus failure to deliver on the messianic prophecies and people worshiping Jesus over God.

>>6126278
>Muhammad was the Kanye West of prophets.
I mean, he was a great prophet but even he says he wasn't better than any of the others, like how Kanye is the greatest of all time.

>>6126288
>I think the bigger issue is Jesus failure to deliver on the messianic prophecies and people worshiping Jesus over God.

Jesus was God, MIDF.

>>6126299
>Muh Square circle

>>6126309
The fuck does that mean Kabaa moon worshipper?

>>6126083
And yet the Qur'an is the only Abrahamic text in which its internal authenticity is noncontroversial, as opposed to the Gospels which are all third-hand documents with added contents that don't agree with each other and are the subject of theologies that were so diverse a secular power forced bishops from around the world to just agree which was right and they still couldn't do it without major splits each time.

>>6126311
It refers to the broken form of reasoning Christians use to justify their polytheism, even the beloved Aquinas couldn't justify it.

>>6126299
>>6126288
mohammedans believe that jesus was the messiah ya dingus

if that anon youre replying to is implying he wasnt the messiah then he isn't a muslim

>>6126321
>mohammedans believe that jesus was the messiah ya dingus

Prophet =/= messiah.

>>6125889
>>6125889
This. This site was never a Christian website

>>6125895
Yea but Jesus wasn't being such a asshole torwards them all the time. Plus none of you christfags are like Jesus in any way

>>6126329
Yes, and Muslims believe Jesus was the Christ as well as a prophet.

>>6126318
It's not really that complex.

Why is it so hard to believe that a God of infinite wisdom and infinite power could or would come down in human form?

Are you saying that God is not all powerful? Are you saying that it is not in his capability to come down in human form to spread his message of love and mercy if he so desired?

If that is what you believe then you are not worshiping the all powerful God my friend, but the Devil. Islam, after all, does refer to Allah as the ultimate deceiver, while we Christians know the deceiver as Satan.

I am convinced that Allah is Satan and not the god of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

We all have different aspects to us, different sides, the Trinity are three different aspects of the same God. It is like the three blind men who are all asked to describe an elephant. One feels the tusks and describes the tusks, one feels the tail, and describes the tail, and one feels the trunk and describes the trunk.

Are the trunk, the tail, and the tusks different animals?

No, they're different parts of the same animal, it really isn't that complex of an idea, but you Muslims act as if a God who is all knowing and all powerful, who created such a complex Universe, has to be as simple as 2+2. You are all fools, and you have all been deceived.

>>6126333
>Plus none of you christfags are like Jesus in any way

No one on this Earth is LIKE Jesus, but we all strive to be like him, and follow his example. Why does having a Christian perspective here, bother you so?

>>6126313
>it's internal authenticity is noncontroversial
this isn't true though, there's well-documented controversy surrounding it's authenticity. I'm not arguing for the torah/new testament but to say that it simply is noncontroversial..is a lie.

>inb4 CITATIONS???
I'm not making this up, and no, I didn't pull it off of answering-islam.org or some website like that.

>>6126329
I promise you they believe he was the messiah, but not the son of god.

>>6126338
>Yes, and Muslims believe Jesus was the Christ as well as a prophet.

Cite a sura that holds him as being beyond a prophet.

>We all have different aspects to us, different sides, the Trinity are three different aspects of the same God. It is like the three blind men who are all asked to describe an elephant. One feels the tusks and describes the tusks, one feels the tail, and describes the tail, and one feels the trunk and describes the trunk.

Thats' modalism and that is a heresy and not how Christians actually define the trinity. The father, Son and Holy Spirit are not components or sides of one god but three separate individuals in one person ie a square circle.

>>6126360
Why do they give so much more credence to Muhammad then? Why do they rage and threaten death over depictions of Muhammad and not Jesus then?

It is all fraudulent and false, Islam is the Mormonism of the East, only more violent and dangerous.

>>6126357
What I meant none of you strive to be like him or at least doesn't have any semblance to him. I am not saying christfags have to be 100% like Jesus but christfags are 0% like Jesus and they barely even trying to be

>>6126365
if you're looking for a sura that identifies him as the messiah, look no further

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah#Islam

>>6126368
I try to be Christ like as much as possible and love my neighbor mas I love myself, and to spread the message of Christ.

>>6126367
I don't think anyone is making fun of the ISLAMIC view of Jesus, whenever someone does something edgy like Piss Christ it's clearly meant to draw ire from Christians. Depictions of Mohammed are meant to stoke the ire of muslims. that's the way it is.

>>6126374
Lets actaully look at those citations

33.7

YUSUFALI: And remember We took from the prophets their covenant: As (We did) from thee: from Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary: We took from them a solemn covenant:

PICKTHAL: And when We exacted a covenant from the prophets, and from thee (O Muhammad) and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus son of Mary. We took from them a solemn covenant;

SHAKIR: And when We made a covenant with the prophets and with you, and with Nuh and Ibrahim and Musa and Isa, son of Marium, and We made with them a strong covenant

57.26

YUSUFALI: And We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation: and some of them were on right guidance. But many of them became rebellious transgressors.

PICKTHAL: And We verily sent Noah and Abraham and placed the prophethood and the scripture among their seed, and among them there is he who goeth right, but many of them are evil-livers.

SHAKIR: And certainly We sent Nuh and Ibrahim and We gave to their offspring the (gift of) prophecy and the Book; so there are among them those who go aright, and most of them are transgressors.

------------------------

And like wise with the 3rd Citation, none of these say directly or even imply Jesus is a messiah and not just a prophet.

>>6126375
Sure, but I am not really buying that. You were being overtly confrontational despite misunderstanding what I said

>Why does having a Christian perspective here, bother you so?

>>6126367
Because the message of Jesus was corrupted and lost and became focused around him instead of god. Had Muhammad not been so over the top about people not creating images of him or worshiping him the same thing would have happened again.

>>6126387
m8 I'm no muslim but you are a seriously dense motherfucker if you don't believe this

just because you are the messiah, in their eyes that doesn't make you the son of god either. that is what they believe.

>Isa Ibn Maryam (Arabic: عيسى بن مريم, translit.: ʿĪsā ibn Maryām; English: Jesus, son of Mary), or Jesus in the New Testament, is considered to be a Messenger of God and al-Masih (the Messiah) in Islam[1][2]:30

>>6126359
>this isn't true though, there's well-documented controversy surrounding it's authenticity.
No, there isn't. The only person to make any large-scale contention of its authenticity is person name Luxenberg, an anonymous non-scholar, whose idea that the Qur'an is really in Syriac has been thoroughly debunked since it premiered. The general claims that it was memorized and written down within Muhammad's lifetime, canonized by Uthman, and that the canonized version matches what Muhammad taught are universally accepted. The only real questions regarding its internal consistency is what the original order of revelations may have been, the answer to which is difficult if not impossible to know.

>>6126395
>Because the message of Jesus was corrupted and lost and became focused around him instead of god. Had Muhammad not been so over the top about people not creating images of him or worshiping him the same thing would have happened again.

You know Joseph smith also had a very similar message.

Have you read The Book of Mormon? If you believe the claim that Christianity had been corrupted over time, then you must give as much attention to Mormonism as you would Islam as both start of with the same premise, but with different prophets and different messages.

Have you read the Book of Mormon anon? If no you can just shut up now, as you havent saught out any other conclusion from your premise other than Muhammad. What is Muhammad was wrong and Joseph Smith is right and he is the final prophet.

Until you read the book of Mormon you can sit down and shut up.

>>6126397
And neither does it make one more than a messenger

>>6126387
>Lets actaully look at those citations

Let's actually read Arabic

مَا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِنْ قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ

>The Messiah (al-Masih), son of Mary, was but a messenger; messengers passed away before him. And his mother was righteous...

وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ

>...and the Messiah (al-Masih) said, "O sons of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord..."

المسيح = messiah

>>6126368
>le epic generalizations
Reddit general?

>>6126395
>Had Muhammad not been so over the top about people not creating images of him or worshiping him the same thing would have happened again.
Muhammad never said anything of the sort, it's a cultural practice derived from the declaration against the making or idols and idol worship. This is a fairly modern attitude as Muhammad was frequently depicted in art, especially pieces made for Khalifs and royalty, and the graphic depiction of Muhammad and the Imams is still popular within Shi'i communities (though the actual faces of Muhammad and al-Mahdi are depicted as obscured by light or smoke or absence).

>>6126426
There is very good evidence that the Book of Mormon was plagiarized which cannot be said for the Koran, likewise it contains historical and linguistic anachronisms which demonstrate its falseness you wont find that in the Koran

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAGasQ7j_ZI

>>6126441
Yeah he did, actually in fact he would not stop talking about how only Allah has the right to worshiped and how that does not apply to messengers.

>>6126431
I concede the point to you on this matter.

Intelligent Christians who know Islam well inevitably end up admiring it as a sort of sister tradition, a la Louis Massignon, Annemarie Schimmel, or Marshall G. S. Hodgson, three of the 20th century's greatest Islamicists.

>>6126426
>You know Joseph smith also had a very similar message.
So did Moses. And the Jewish prophets. And Jesus for that matter. Wow it's almost like preacher people in pre-literate priestly societies seem to come around every now and then and make big shows of wide-spread unorthodox beliefs and practices in their societies.

>>6126465
That the Qur'an says that prophets and messengers are not to be worshiped is not questioned, only that it forbids the creation of images of them and that any such creation of images is to be met with violence.

>>6126492
Which was central to my point regarding the corrupting of Jesus's message. The image part though relevant is nowhere near as curical as the umpteen passages saying to only worship allah.

>>6126395
Well hasn't the same happened in Islam with the Shia/ Sunni split? There tends to be corruptors in every religion over time, but that doesn't mean the true message of Christ isn't out there without Muhammad's intervening.

There's a few problems with Muhammad's message as it assumes no one will ever corrupt his word, and yet he claims to be the last prophet. When his message becomes corrupted over time won't there be a need for another prophet to come and to correct the record again?

And if the Koran is un-corruptible because God or Allah if you will, protects its word, then why did God/Allah not protect the word of his Prophet Jesus Christ? As it seems the only reason Muslims claim a need for Muhammad was to restore the message because the original had been corrupted.

There are huge flaws and gaps of logic in that belief system that contradict themselves. I am beyond certain that Muhammad was either lying in order to gain power, prestige and wealth, or he was delusional and crazy, as in today he would need to be institutionalized, or he was deceived by the devil.

Muhammad is not a prophet of God.

>>6126431
How can Muhammad criticize or critique Christianity when he himself misunderstood the trinity. He was so misguided and ignorant that he believed Mary was part of the Trinity...

Also when he was poisoned by that woman, he claimed Allah would never allow it, and yet he died of complications due to that poisoning a few years later.

He was not God's prophet. He was a fraud who personified sin. He was sin incarnate.

>>6126530
I also find it humorous that alcohol is banned in Islam but it promises rivers of wine in paradise. It is complete and utter bullshit, all of it.

>>6126530
>Well hasn't the same happened in Islam with the Shia/ Sunni split?
No.. doctrinal difference between the two are relatively modern and philosophical, they don't disagree on the contents of the Qur'an at all (further supporting its authenticity, since partisans of Ali would've absolutely gone to war if the canonized Qur'an was even slightly controversial). The Shi'a/Sunni split originates with the issue of how the Umma is to be lead and who the correct leader of the Muslims after the Prophet was. Try reading a book. Maybe The Shi'a Revival by Vali Nasr.

>>6126532
>How can Muhammad criticize or critique Christianity when he himself misunderstood the trinity.
>implying he didn't correctly lampoon the sophistry behind such an idea

>>6126530
>>6126532
>>6126548
>some Christian raiding /lit/ to make sure we don't get le scammed by the mozlems

>>6126549
>d in Islam with the Shia/ Sunni split? There tends to be corruptors in every religion over time, but that doesn't mean the true message of Christ isn't out there without Muhammad's intervening.
They are disagreements of the Hadith though, how are you certain that the Koran has not been corrupted but certain portions of the Hadith may be.

You're just deceiving yourselves now.

>>6126530
>Well hasn't the same happened in Islam with the Shia/ Sunni split?

Not really it was less theology and more to do with succession of leadership. Hence it would be more comparable to the Orthadox/Catholic split rather than the 10,000 of protestants sects.

>but that doesn't mean the true message of Christ isn't out there without Muhammad's intervening.

Of course, however it had gotten so bad for the vast majority that another revelation was deemed necessary.

>
There's a few problems with Muhammad's message as it assumes no one will ever corrupt his word, and yet he claims to be the last prophet. When his message becomes corrupted over time won't there be a need for another prophet to come and to correct the record again?

The point is that it is not and has not yet. How many christians can read the bible in its original language compared to Muslims for instance? Likewise by actually establishing a text rather than just leaving it to a bunch of people scattered across the Roman Empire to cobble ot together haphazardly over the following decades you escape many of the problems that plagued the bible with its mountains of apocrypha.

>not protect the word of his Prophet Jesus Christ

Because at the point it would have been impossible to do without completely removing human agency and free will.

>There are huge flaws and gaps of logic in that belief system that contradict themselves. I am beyond certain that Muhammad was either lying in order to gain power, prestige and wealth, or he was delusional and crazy, as in today he would need to be institutionalized, or he was deceived by the devil.

Muhammad and Islam are far more logically coherent and self contradictory than Christianity. Which is one of the reasons why there arent countless muslim sects like there are within Christianity.

>>6126562
Mary was never ever a part of the trinity you moron, how is that lampooning an idea when you don't get the idea. That's what you call a scarecrow, he is guilty of a philosophical fallacy.

>Huur misinterpreting an idea is defeating an idea

Are you mentally retarded?

>>6126532
>He was so misguided and ignorant that he believed Mary was part of the Trinity...

Except they dont, the trinity is polytheism which uses square circle reasoning to justify itself. They specifically spoke out against the very notion of it.

>>6126570
Orthodox/Catholic split has theological/creedal roots as well as being about leadership.

>>6126570
>The point is that it is not and has not yet. How many christians can read the bible in its original language compared to Muslims for instance? Likewise by actually establishing a text rather than just leaving it to a bunch of people scattered across the Roman Empire to cobble ot together haphazardly over the following decades you escape many of the problems that plagued the bible with its mountains of apocrypha.

That's a stupid claim, as Christianity is the largest religion of the world and is older than Islam. Most of Islam's adherents know Arabic from birth.

And you still miss the point, how can Muhammad make the claim he is to be the last prophet, if his word might be corrupted some day? All you say is that it hasn't happened yet and neglect the last prophet bit. Judgement day hasn't happened yet either but we still discuss it. You Muslims are beyond delusional.

>>6126570
>Likewise by actually establishing a text rather than just leaving it to a bunch of people scattered across the Roman Empire to cobble ot together haphazardly over the following decades you escape many of the problems that plagued the bible with its mountains of apocrypha.

so God/Allah is perfect and all knowing and yet you criticize him as "leaving Jesus Christ's message to be scattered"...

It sounds as if you're either criticizing God or criticizing Jesus.

Your attitude towards Jesus are so weird, the way you talk out of both sides of your mouth about him.

>Muslims call the Trinity polytheistic because God is given multiple names
>Yet in Islam Allah is said to have 99 or more divine names

Why are Muslims such hypocrites?

>>6126594
That's a stupid claim, as Christianity is the largest religion of the world and is older than Islam. Most of Islam's adherents know Arabic from birth.

So that just highlights Christian failings, even the most devote christians spend more time squabbling over translations than trying to learn the original.

>And you still miss the point, how can Muhammad make the claim he is to be the last prophet, if his word might be corrupted some day? All you say is that it hasn't happened yet and neglect the last prophet bit. Judgement day hasn't happened yet either but we still discuss it.

That starts getting into the sunni shia divide because its not that open and shut. The Koran can be uncorrupted without removing the need for new revelation.

>You Muslims are beyond delusional.
>Thinking Im a Muslim
>shiggidy

>>6126605
>so God/Allah is perfect and all knowing and yet you criticize him as "leaving Jesus Christ's message to be scattered"

Thats like saying if god was all knowing then why did adam and eve eat from the tree of knowledge.

>It sounds as if you're either criticizing God or criticizing Jesus.

Im criticizing the actions of men

>Your attitude towards Jesus are so weird, the way you talk out of both sides of your mouth about him.

The Jesus of the Gospels is a very a different person to the real Jesus whose message of submission to the one God is largely lost.

>>6126532
>How can Muhammad criticize or critique Christianity when he himself misunderstood the trinity.

How can you criticize him when Christians themselves were sharply divided over Christian doctrine? In Byzantine and Sasanian lands the differences were mostly Christological, but in more peripheral areas other kinds of 'heresy' thrived, like the Arianism of the Germanics. Presumably this extended to the Arabs as well.

>He was so misguided and ignorant that he believed Mary was part of the Trinity...

"Kollyridians or Collyridians were adorers of Mary in the fourth-century Arabia, as Epiphanius mentioned in his writing against heretics.... This sect, mainly consisting of women or at least led by woman priests, propagated what amounts to a Goddess cult regarding Our Lady."

http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/yq2/yq315

This is to say nothing of the Marianism of mainstream sects like Catholicism, which by Muslim standards would be considered idolatry.

>Also when he was poisoned by that woman, he claimed Allah would never allow it, and yet he died of complications due to that poisoning a few years later.

The various narrations of this story differ quite a bit in their details; there's no way of really knowing which are true, if any. Anyway, I don't see what this has to do with anything.

>He was not God's prophet. He was a fraud who personified sin. He was sin incarnate.

He was the single most successful prophet in history, I'd say. Let go of the butthurt and perhaps you'll come to appreciate one of the most interesting and influential people who ever lived.

>>6126626
>So that just highlights Christian failings, even the most devote christians spend more time squabbling over translations than trying to learn the original.
Have you taken a look at your own religion lately, with the Sunni's and the Shia's, and the Kurds, and Isis.

At least we're not killing each other over our differences. Blood is not appeasing to God.

>>6126662
>How can you criticize him when Christians themselves were sharply divided over Christian doctrine? In Byzantine and Sasanian lands the differences were mostly Christological, but in more peripheral areas other kinds of 'heresy' thrived, like the Arianism of the Germanics. Presumably this extended to the Arabs as well.

Sunni and Shia... and you people are still killing each other over your bullshit prophet Mohammed, may her never find peace.

>>6126662
>Muslim standards would be considered idolatry.

Thank God, I don't follow Muslim standards with your honor killings, raping of children, murdering infidels, having multiple partners.

Islam is utter degeneracy straight from the pits of hell.

>>6126662
>>Also when he was poisoned by that woman, he claimed Allah would never allow it, and yet he died of complications due to that poisoning a few years later.
>The various narrations of this story differ quite a bit in their details; there's no way of really knowing which are true, if any. Anyway, I don't see what this has to do with anything.


LOL, you've got to be fucking kidding me, Muhammad's message has not been altered, and cannot be altered, but his last days... who knows. You people are so full of shit the toilet is jealous. Fuck off, people are just laughing at you at this point, there are no sympathetic ears.

>>6126569
Because the ahadith were poorly attested narrations of/about the prophet collected literally hundreds of years after Muhammad and the Ahl al-Bayt were long dead, of which only a sliver of which were kept and only because they had narrative chains that were conceivable, not necessarily correct. The Qur'an was memorized and written by thousands in whole and in part in Muhammad's lifetime and was canonized by persons that personally knew Muhammad, knew the entire Qur'an by heart, and without any disagreement in all of the world despite the existence of people that were ideologically opposed to the person responsible for the canonization. This isn't even apples and oranges, it's apples and pine-cones.

You have literally no idea what you're talking about and projecting your insecurities.

>>6126664
You are mixing nationalism and secular issues with religious ones (kind of like if I were to call WWI and Christian War) when it comes to the kurds and still the internal division and has a lot to do with the aftermath of imperialism than faults in the Koran.

>At least we're not killing each other over our differences. Blood is not appeasing to God.

Yeah things like the 30 years wars didnt happen right? I mean its not like Chrisitans and Christian countries have caused the greatest loss of life in human history. Christians Bath in Blood.

>>6126576
Where does the Qur'an say that Mary is part of the trinity?

>>6126662
If this is true then why are there so many more Christians than there are Muslims?


>Christianity - 2.2 billion
>Islam - 1.8 billion
>Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist - 1.1 billion

(you're closely followed by Atheists)

Also your success in numbers cannot be really accurate as you force people to stay in Islam. People who leave Islam in Islamic countries are faced with death. So your numbers are certainly inflated even though you are secondary.

I'm sure many followers of Islam never speak their doubts or criticisms out of fear, many people are only followers out of fear for their livers, not love or belief.

Fuck you, fuck your false prophet, and fuck your false religion.

>>6126594
>Most of Islam's adherents know Arabic from birth.
No that's definitely false, and of those that are natural Arabic speakers none are taught Classical Arabic from birth.

>>6126693
>Yeah things like the 30 years wars didnt happen right? I mean its not like Chrisitans and Christian countries have caused the greatest loss of life in human history. Christians Bath in Blood.

Pfft, okay, you're just plain retarded.

>>6126693
>You are mixing nationalism and secular issues with religious ones (kind of like if I were to call WWI and Christian War)

Those were never done in the name of Christianity you moron, the Sunni/Shia/Isis bullshit is done in the name of Islam, fuck you suck at logic and debating.

>>6126670
see
>>6126549

Contemporary Shi'a/Sunni violence is the direct product of capitalist Western secular-state making in the Middle-East and the ethnic marginalization that came from that.

>>6126716
>the Sunni/Shia/Isis bullshit is done in the name of Islam
Wow. Please stop watching news channels.

>>6126569
>how are you certain that the Koran has not been corrupted but certain portions of the Hadith may be.

Because the Qur'an was standardized early, quickly, and pretty much in one place. Hadiths were collected and evaluated for quite a bit longer, sometimes centuries before the major collections appeared, and they were drawn from a much wider geographical area.

If you want to read something recent about the Qur'anic manuscript tradition, here you go:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/130854520/The-codex-of-a-companion-of-the-Prophet-SAW-Benham-Sadeghi-Bergmann#download

>>6126715
>Hey Constantine if Christianity is true then why are there more people worshiping the Imperial Cult!

Numbers =/= truth I think the bigger question you need to ask yourself is that if Christianity is true why is it dying?

>Fuck you, fuck your false prophet, and fuck your false religion.

Muh feelings.

>Pfft, okay, you're just plain retarded.

Just because sit in opulence whilst your government goes around slaughtering people does not make you peaceful.

Why is that Christians have had more and larger wars as well as genocides compared to Muslims? Shouldnt it be the other way around?

>>6126716
Read my post thats what I said. The kurdish conflict is not one of religion.

>>6126721
Denying that Wahhabism is a religious movement is sheer idiocy.

>>6126664
>At least we're not killing each other over our differences.
Did we all dream up Kosovo?

>>6126721
Let me guess, you also believe the Jews were responsible for 9/11, and that Jews are behind Isis, and that Islam can do no wrong.

Your kind is utter trash.

>>6126594
>as Christianity is the largest religion of the world and is older than Islam

In the 16th century, Islam would have been way more diverse and had way more adherents than Christianity.

>>6126737
Maybe you should try and not think in dichotomies, child? That might help you get less butthurt and paranoid.

>>6126727
I've read the Koran before, thank you. I have no need or desire to read it again. The funny thing is a Muslim got me to read the Koran and before I read it I was open to it and tolerable of it and was enraged when people insulted it.

Then I actually read the damned thing, and oh how wrong I was. I'm now very anti_Islam and think it is pure evil.

>Muslim tries to convert Muslim friendly non-Muslim, by reading the Koran
>Turns him into an active opponent of Islam and its wickedness

I'm glad I read the Koran as it opened my eyes to how evil it really is. I only hope that God can forgive me for reading those words and indulging Lucifer's teachings.

>>6126739
What.

>>6126742
>In the 16th century, Islam would have been way more diverse and had way more adherents than Christianity.


You mean because it would force you to follow it or die? Those aren't real followers you asshole. The more I read from you mudslimes the more I'm starting to believe that the Crusades and the Inquisition were justified.

>>6126750
>I only hope that God can forgive me for reading those words and indulging Lucifer's teachings.

Pretending to be Christian on 4chan is no longer funny, anon.

>>6126348
>Islam, after all, does refer to Allah as the ultimate deceiver
[citation needed]

>this thread

>defending Islam

>>6126750
Then sureley you would have read those sections about peoples whose minds are closed of from Allah and what will happen to them.

>I only hope that God can forgive me for reading those words and indulging Lucifer's teachings.

Says the polytheist.

>>6126764
Yeah remember when Islam genocided the new world took over the entire continent of Africa before having a civil war that kiled 60 million people?

>>6126769

Imperialism had barely as much to do with Christianity as Islam does with whatever the fuck they did.

>>6126774
>muh special pleading

Where was all this christian love then? Why is it that the less prominent Christianity becomes in your society the more peaceful your countries become?

>>6126755
Even Queen Isabella a huge proponent of the Inquisition showed mercy to the Muslims by allowing them to leave or to convert. Muslims however want you to convert or die.

>As part of this process, the Inquisition became institutionalised. After a Muslim uprising in 1499, and further troubles thereafter, the Treaty of Granada was broken in 1502, and Muslims were ordered to either become Christians or to leave


>The siege of Granada began in the spring of 1491 and at the end of the year, Muhammad XII surrendered. On 2 January 1492 Isabella and Ferdinand entered Granada to receive the keys of the city and the principal mosque was reconsecrated as a church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_I_of_Castile

Boy it does my heart good to see a Mosque of Lucifer torn down to be replace by a church of God.

May God bless Queen Isabella, peace be upon her, and may the wicked Muhammad rot in the pits of hell.

>>6126774

>>6126756
I am a Christian, and my faith is between the Lord and myself, don't try and dismiss me because you're a Muslim and you disagree with me.

>>6126779
The Ottomans did far better not only did they *not* give you the convert or die ultimatum they actually let you choose to stay in exchange for paying a tax (Jizhya) most of Europe could not dream of having religious tolerance like that. Isabella has nothing them.

>>6126795
And what happens if you don't pay the jizz tax to fund Muslim coffers to try and conquer other regions of the world?

>>6126670
>Sunni and Shia... and you people are still killing each other over your bullshit prophet Mohammed, may her never find peace.

You completely missed the point. I wasn't pointing to Christian theological controversies as evidence of some deficiency in Christianity—I have no interest in pissing contests. I pointed to it as evidence that there were many heterodox Christian beliefs, some of which disputed the nature of the trinity or the nature of Mary.

Maybe you're confusing me with another poster.

>>6126677

None of those things have religious sanction other than polygamy, which was practiced by the prophets you revere as well.

>>6126686
>LOL, you've got to be fucking kidding me, Muhammad's message has not been altered, and cannot be altered, but his last days... who knows.

I didn't say anything about this to you, but it looks like you're confusing the Qur'an (which doesn't discuss Muhammad's death) with the hadith tradition.

>Fuck off, people are just laughing at you at this point, there are no sympathetic ears.

Impotent self-assurances like this only make you look like an idiot.

>>6126712
>If this is true then why are there so many more Christians than there are Muslims?

I was thinking about the more immediate aftermath of his ministry. It was also just an opinion. Either way, >>6126742

>I'm sure many followers of Islam never speak their doubts or criticisms out of fear, many people are only followers out of fear for their livers, not love or belief.

I know several atheists who live in Muslim countries; they don't tip fedoras in public or anything, but I assure you, their livers are not in danger.

>Fuck you, fuck your false prophet, and fuck your false religion.

Don't know why you're so mad. You should change that.

>HUUAAUHAH RELIGIONS ARE LIKE SPORTS TEAMS TO ME, GO CHRISTIANS!!!1

>>6126799
The same things that happen if you dont pay your regular taxes. Still miles ahead of the paltry example of christian tolerance provided in Isabella.

>>6126755
>You mean because it would force you to follow it or die?

No.

>>6126759
>Qur'an 3:54 Arabic: ومكروا ومكر الله والله خير الماكرين

>Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru almakireena

>And they cheated/deceived and God cheated/deceived, and Allah is the best (of) the cheaters/deceivers.

>Are they then secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99

>So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme (Wamakaroo makran wamakarna makran), while they perceived not. S. 27:50

Devil's prophet

>>6126750
>I've read the Koran before, thank you. I have no need or desire to read it again.

I wasn't linking you to the Qur'an. Please read posts more carefully before sperging out.

>>6126809
Why should non-Muslims pay taxes to you and your false religion, specifically for being not following your wicked Prophet, may he burn in hell.

What is the greatest insult you can say or show to Islam?

This is my first time in /lit/, and this thread is something.

Does this happen every now and then?

ITT: Mental-betas

>Christian is mad about Islam that much

I bet he is a dirty southerner

>>6126764

>'Muslim Conquest Battles'
>shows minor raids that didn't result in conquest and were never intended to be conquests

>'Crusade Battles'
>doesn't show any massacres of Jews/heretics in Europe, Latin conquest of Constantinople, or half of the battles in the Levant/Egypt/Arabia

Clearly the work of a True Scholar.

>>6126817
>Why should non-christians have to be banished or die if they dont convert to your false religion.

Sillyness aside its so that they remain in a position of subordinance and cannot spread their mistruths and corrupt the truly faithful.

>>6126821
No its generally more Christians going against atheists and agnostics, whats fun about this thread is because its an interfaith one its devoid of the usual memes that plauge religious threads.

>>6126817
>Why should non-Muslims pay taxes to you and your false religion

Because they're exempt from Muslim obligations like military service and the zakat tax.

livefeed of my islam research:

muslims have the best worship system of the abrahamic faiths

more to possibly come later

>>6126821

/lit/ became christfag sometime last year, though I'm not even sure exactly when, it feels like too long anyway.

the basic reasoning is that because the bible is a book then therefore christfag discussion is /lit/ related, also we have to be different then those fedora reddit losers who don't even eat their savior on sunday!

pfffftt I wish they'd all gtfo back to christian mingle or the youtube comment section where they belong

>>6126855
>/lit/ became christfag sometime last year, though I'm not even sure exactly when

Meme blowback.

>>6125863
>He was a false prophet who led an immoral life, he should not be followed. Islam is a carnal religion for men who only wish to satisfy their carnal needs.
>>6125875
>A Satanic one.
>>6126311
>The fuck does that mean Kabaa moon worshipper?
>>6126348
>You are all fools, and you have all been deceived.
>>6126532
>He was not God's prophet. He was a fraud who personified sin. He was sin incarnate.
>>6126548
>It is complete and utter bullshit, all of it.
>>6126670
and you people are still killing each other over your bullshit prophet Mohammed, may her never find peace.
>>6126677
>Islam is utter degeneracy straight from the pits of hell.
>>6126686
>You people are so full of shit the toilet is jealous. Fuck off,
>>6126712
>Fuck you, fuck your false prophet, and fuck your false religion.
>>6126739
>Your kind is utter trash.
>>6126750
>I'm glad I read the Koran as it opened my eyes to how evil it really is. I only hope that God can forgive me for reading those words and indulging Lucifer's teachings.
>>6126755
>. The more I read from you mudslimes the more I'm starting to believe that the Crusades and the Inquisition were justified.
>>6126779
>Boy it does my heart good to see a Mosque of Lucifer torn down to be replace by a church of God.
>May God bless Queen Isabella, peace be upon her, and may the wicked Muhammad rot in the pits of hell.
>>6126817
>specifically for being not following your wicked Prophet, may he burn in hell.

Wow. And here I thought that WE were the most butthurt religion...

>>6126848

>>6126880

>>6126880
lel you're gonna be so fucking butthurt when i start ruling the world

>>6126348
>Islam, after all, does refer to Allah as the ultimate deceiver, while we Christians know the deceiver as Satan.
>>6126813

Here u go m8

http://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-11.htm

>>6126878
The USA is going to bomb your people for eternity, you will always be viewed as goat rapists who fly into murderous rage over newspaper editorial comics.

>>6126901
devil-worshipping pagan catholic goyim kafirs don't read, obviously

http://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm
http://biblehub.com/joshua/23-15.htm
http://biblehub.com/jeremiah/45-5.htm
http://biblehub.com/micah/1-12.htm

etc

>>6125841
>Do you believe Muhammad was any kind of prophet?
Ofcourse he was. He was the messenger of God, it says so in the Qur'an
>Do you believe he was a fraud but wasn't necessarily pure evil or of the devil?
The Qur'an is the word of God, careful with your ridicule, be mindful of God.
>Do you think he was just plain crazy and truly believed that Gabriel was speaking to him?
Divine intervention in delivering God's word is not abnormal, Abraham received God's word through a burning bush, Jesus was God in the flesh, many prophets received the word of God through trances, like Muhammed
>or Do you believe that he is the devil's prophet sent to establish Satan's church on Earth?
No, he's the third major messenger to spread The Word after Abraham and Jesus (not including the other prophets of the faith)
>or what do you believe?
I'm an anti-religious atheist.

>>6126906

>>6126906
>you will always be viewed as goat rapists who fly into murderous rage over newspaper editorial comics.

Frankly, that's less embarrassing than you being this buttcrusaded over comments on an Assamese hand-turkey board.

>>6126882
i want you to think back on this when you turn 30, 40, and 50 years old, and realize what a fool you were and still are.

im surprised people fell for this /pol/ bait

>Do you believe Muhammad was any kind of prophet?

No.

>Do you believe he was a fraud but wasn't necessarily pure evil or of the devil?

Yes. The Christian tendency to blame everything on the devil is tiring. Mohammad wasn't even necessarily a "bad man" in the classical sense of the term. He tried his best to correct what societal injustices he saw and may have lied a little or gotten carried away or whatever along the way. In short he was deceived.

>Do you think he was just plain crazy and truly believed that Gabriel was speaking to him?

It's a possibility that he imagined all of it. His testimony is much shakier than those in Christianity from a logical perspective because everything is based entirely on only his word, whereas at least in Christianity there are miracles that multiple people claim to have witnessed together.

>or Do you believe that he is the devil's prophet sent to establish Satan's church on Earth?

"Satan's church on Earth" is already established and is constituted by worldly people, not necessarily any particular religion or group. Satan's followers aren't necessarily "pure evil" people, they are just people who are deceived. They also aren't necessarily our enemies. Almost everyone was a follower of Satan before coming to Christ.

>>6126924
lel you're gonna be so fucking butthurt when i start ruling the world

daily reminder ive seen this shit coming for years
>>/lit/thread/S3162158#p3162168
>>/lit/thread/S4093481#p4093778

>>6126927

that pic is surprisingly on point

>the friendzone is sexist

>>6126935
>His testimony is much shakier than those in Christianity from a logical perspective because everything is based entirely on only his word, whereas at least in Christianity there are miracles that multiple people claim to have witnessed together.

Walk me through this logic.

>>6126927
I think its funny seeing religious posters trying to cope when they cant handwave things with memes and how quickly they revert to their old states.

>>6126921
leez zeea (can't see the thing over the alef) what does it mean?

>>6126943

I'm pretty sure I stated basically all of it, it's pretty simple logic. Mohammad never performed a miracle. No one besides him (to my knowledge) heard God, except of course the previous prophets. Whereas in Christian literature at the very least it is claimed that multiple people observed Christ performing miracles and also spoke to/heard from God. In other words it's not as if Jesus offered only His word to people with absolutely no proof of divinity.

This isn't supposed to be PROOF THAT CHRISTIANITY > ISLAM but is just kind of a thought on the matter.

>>6126935

>"Satan's church on Earth" is already established and is constituted by worldly people, not necessarily any particular religion or group. Satan's followers aren't necessarily "pure evil" people, they are just people who are deceived. They also aren't necessarily our enemies. Almost everyone was a follower of Satan before coming to Christ.

>i have to share oxygen with people who think like this

>>6126959

Explain to me why I'm incorrect from Scripture.

Christfag vs atheism thread:
>yeah but Aquinas and Augustine and all our philosophy, your argument is irrational, lel fedora, cliche atheist arguments, it requires faith, >2015 still thinking this proves God's non-existence, omfg fedorafags

Christfag vs Muslim thread
>MUHAMMAD SON OF SATAN! ISLAM FUCKING HOAX! ALL A LIE! BURN IN HELL MUDSLIMES!!!!!

It's so nice to see that under the veil of your >muh philosophical legacy you're all still a bunch of religious morons.

>>6126961

Are you saying that the information is from scripture, and you don't actually believe it?

>>6126935
>His testimony is much shakier than those in Christianity from a logical perspective because everything is based entirely on only his word

Unlike the Christians who cobbled a bible together swifitng through mountains of claimed works produced throughout the empire decades later and producing a mountain of apocrypha and cannot agree on basic facts or authorship.

>>6126965

Well the important thing is you've found a way to feel superior to us.

>>6126965

Now you know why Aristotle could never have been a Christian. He would have been too busy yelling, ranting and raving to actually sit down and think about what he believed

>>6126972

What? No, I'm asking you to show me Scriptural evidence as to why my argument is incorrect. I thought you were a Christian with an opposing view and I'm asking you to demonstrate why you believe you're right. Unless your comment was just about me being a Christian in general, in which case I don't really care and I don't have a purpose for this conversation.

>>6126973

I'm talking about the proposed events of each text themselves right now, not on the historical validity of the texts. So that wasn't really a denial to my point but rather just shifting the goal posts.

>>6126979

>Unless your comment was just about me being a Christian in general, in which case I don't really care and I don't have a purpose for this conversation.

kill yourself for actually buying into an ancient mythos in 2015

it's fucking embarrassing

>>6126974
That meme doesn't really apply here, I'm not supposing I'm one of you, but better.

>>6126974

You make it too easy.

>>6126981
But dont you how important that is? How can we assess what Jesus was claimed to have done if there is such serious questions over what is attributed to him especially as Muslims consider the Koran as being necessary to revive the lost teachings of Jesus.

>>6126983

That was a joke but still, it totally applies.

>>6126991

I'm not denying how important that is but again, that was not what I was originally talking about and I was calling you out for framing an entirely different topic as if it was a refutation to my earlier point.