/lit/ - Literature

Prolly some Greek play

>>6105524
define misogynist

>>6105524

Muhammad

>>6105524
>It's not as easy as you think.

because no man who hates women is worth writing about. A man who thinks women are inferior isn't a mysoginist, though. And any reasonable man thinks women are inferior, because they are.

>>6105551
maybe you're right.

My Twisted World by Elliot Rodger

>>6105544
>bateman
>hero

>>6105551
tips fedora

>>6105594
>implying that a main character in any book isn't hero, no matter what they do.
>implying hero isn't the word for protagonist

>>6105624
>hero protagonist
thank you Neal Stephenson

>>6105524
God
Zeus
Odysseus
Don Quixote
Hamlet
Victor Frankenstein
Mr. Rochester
Holden Caulfield
Tryion Lannister
Edward Cullen

>>6105644
>Quixote
>misogynist

Humbert Humbert
Odysseus
Ignatius
Every guy in Dubliners
The Underground man

>>6105679
he's the definition of white knight chivalry that feminists despise.

>>6105544
Bateman did like his secretary though.
I don't think most so called misogynists hate all women. There's usually a few women they don't despise. Very very few really hate all women. I'd say most misogynists don't even hate women, they just don't give a shit about them.

>>6105702
'Despised by feminists' is just a wee bit bigger net than is 'misogynist'.

>>6105722
>I'd say most misogynists don't even hate women
Hatred is the inherent meaning of the mis- prefix.

>>6105702
>misogyny means women are doing the hating

>>6105524
Harry Flashman from the Flashman papers. EzPz

>>6106101
I'm saying the label doesn't apply all that often. That people call somebody a misogynist even though he doesn't really hate all women. That the label is inaccurately applied.

>>6106165
That sounds reasonable.

Bond.

To get technical about it, yeah, it's very difficult to actually find one that is a "misogynist" in the sense that they really do dislike/hate ALL women. That being said, there are plenty who behave LIKE a misogynist toward MANY women.

The difference is that of reality vs polemic. Almost no one who is "racist" literally hates all people of the opposite race under all circumstances, etc. Categories are made to be broken because the world does not conform neatly to human definition, since it was not, in fact, constructed wholly by it.

OK, little philosopher rant over. Many protagonists and heroes of western literature behave like misogynists often enough that you could bet people would commonly accuse them of being misogynist IRL. Gilgamesh, the very first, comes to mind.

>>6105524
I think it may say more about feminism meaning that all men are misogynists than vice versa. Have fun living a life where you despise all men because they potential rapists and muh soggy knees.

http://www.avclub.com/article/revisiting-the-sad-misogynistic-fantasy-of-xanth-104382

:^)

>>6106246
Are you illiterate or just a cry-baby?

>>6106238
>Gilgamesh
>western

>>6105524
the protagonist in all along the western front was sexist af.

>>6105551
how do you reconcile the fact that there are millions of women out there who are better than you will ever be?

>ctrl+f Aeneas
>no results

>>6106290
how is he a misogynist? he couldn't even get over his dead wife in order to bang a hot queen

>>6106283
what kind of garbage post is this lol
better at what?

>>6106303
pretty much any measure you can think of

>>6106282
Sexist isn't as bad as misogynist though. DH Lawrence was chauvinist as could be but I wouldn't say he hated women just that he had very rigid and old fashioned about what roles men and women should play in life. Yet I believe he genuinely loved and admired his life and put up with shit she pulled that I would have booted her arse out into the street over.

>>6106306
that's not an answer

>>6106238
>>6106279

>mfw aged 12 when reading the Shamhat episode from Tablet 1 for the first time

>mfw when remembering how I fapped to it two years later

Humbert

>>6106290
Most women in the Aeneid are incompetent tho.

>let's burn the ships so we can stay here on this god forsaken island forever

Meursalt

>>6106303
Better at eveything you will ever try or think of trying. In case you mumble out another >>6106309
>athletics
>literature
>science
>any branch of knowledge whatsoever
>any instrument whatsoever
>any hobby you can imagine that doesn't directly involve utilizing body parts that women don't have, incase you're going to flop out some stupid answer like swinging your dick around for a hobby

>>6106346
Does he hate women or does he just give no fucks about them?

>>6106361
Apathetic.

>>6106360
oh i wasnt the same person you responded to first so that doesn't bother me at all, it's just that saying some people are "better" than other people with that tone just makes you look like a fucking idiot

I guess the original James Bond.

Edward Cullen.

>>6106238
>Almost no one who is "racist" literally hates all people of the opposite race under all circumstances
lmao how naive

>>6106360
Wrong.
You're inferior, deal with it, cunt.

I'm positive you can find one in Strindberg.

>>6105524
Name one reason why anyone should give a fuck about misogyny

>>6106306
2butthurt4me

Dorian Gray
>inb4 Sybil
He didn't love her, he loved the art of her acting.

>>6106238
>Almost no one who is "racist" literally hates all people of the opposite race under all circumstances
You don't have to hate to be racist, you just have to believe one race to be superior to another.

>>6105524
severian

>>6106379
Yeah, hence why >>6105551
>And any reasonable man thinks women are inferior, because they are.
Got a reaction out of me.
>>6106406
>thinking I'm a woman because I reacted that way
stay /pol/

>>6106442
>/pol/
I don't browse containment boards, stay mad, you cunt.
It can't be anymore obvious that you have a vag between your legs.

>>6106442
they just said that women are inferior in general rather than making the claim that any specific person could be "better" all around than another one

anyway men kind of automatically view the group "women" as something separate from them and tend to be either better or worse so your reaction seems pointless

>>6105541
pease be upon him

>>6106283
not the guy but; this is about tendencies and the average: not about specific individuals.

i don't even agree with him i'm just saying your argument is flaw-ed

>>6106360
I don't think that there are any man better than me, much less a woman. My ego is bigger than reason, you can't make me think otherwise, even with i try to agree with you. It can't be helped.

If i try to put me off the equation, i still think men are in general better than women. I'm not a misogynist, you believing or not.

>>6106283
>>6106306
>>6106360
This isn't in any way an actual argument or an attack on the main point from the original statement you complete imbecile.

It's all just an empty autismal butthurt post that doesn't actually contribute to the topic. There is a person that is better than you in every conceivable way, so what? The owner of ether of these titles of "the best" is matched by each gender so why would you just state an unrelated statement just to appear like you're defending genders when nobody was making any attack on women in the first place (mostly males tend to strive for #1 at an individual goal, but I'll repeat what I said; that's an entirely different argument.)

The fact that a person stoops so low to find a chip/vulnerability in the post without actually getting at the main topic just shows how brainwashed the person behind he post is.

T-The underground man?

>>6105551
inferior it what sense? you are great for yourself, i am sure, but it doesn't make you better than anyone

>>6106507
>nobody was making any attack on women in the first place
I am
>>6106571
Every man is superior to any woman

What is a misogynist ? Someone who hates women, or someone who thinks women are inferior ? As >>6105551 aptly noted, they are not the same. Dante, for instance, who's also the protagonist (and sorta the hero) of one of his books, was the latter but not the former.

>>6107421
Does that mean that there exist a most inferior man, as well as a most superior woman ? If so, how much is the most inferior man superior to the most superior woman ? What about hermaphrodites ?

>>6107449
When I was like seven I laid awake at night wondering what "the straw the broke the camels back" means and how incremental time can actually be divided and stuff. Now that I'm not a kid you know basic phenomena just aren't that interesting. *yawn*

>>6107468
What does that tell me, except that you're a boring person ?

>>6107475
That you're easy to take the bait in bait central on the internet

>>6105644
Odysseus didn't hate women.
He did literally nothing wrong, except from fighting the trojans.

>>6105524
Fucking James Bond

>>6106290
> Aneas
> Not Agamemnon

Dude sacrificed his daughter to win a war (excluding Euripides' famous and brilliant interpretation, that is), then brought the pain on his nosey wife before she killed him.

Feminist dream target right here.

>>6106283
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

>>6106310
> read a translation that implied he did it to all youth, not just nymphets
> considered fapping
> didn't
> "Welp, thank god I'm not a fag."
> Enkidu
> Bromance
> fapfapfap
> welp

>>6106283
I don't have to reconcile it, because I know for a fact that I AM superior to every single women, alive or dead.
God, through genesis has guaranteed this.

>>6107535
>>6107468
> Who is Zadie Smith
> Who is Porochista Khakpour
> Who is Marilynn Robinson
> Who is Jesmine (sp?) Ward
> Who is Louise Erdrich
> Who is Chimamanda Adiche (alsp sp)
> Who is Sarah Maguso
> Who is ZZ Packer
> Who is Joan Didion

About five years from now /lit/ will realize that women have been winning all of the major awards for those last five years. Moreover, /lit/ will refuse to acknowledge that this trend is truly representative of a severe talent gulf between the sexes when it comes to contemporary literature. I'd take anyone on that list over, say, the moderately talented Ben Lerner (or Tao, obviously), and many of those names even over the well-established and extremely talented Denis Johnson. Tree of Smoke was good, but Nobody Move was literal garbage and The Laughing Monsters was worse.

>>6107667
About ten years from now, you will realize two very important things: first, that big literary prize are political almost by construction and only matter to that extent (want a list of male of female literature nobel prize winners vs their contemporaries that are more highly regarded now ?), second, that literary "greatness", or "talent", is, depending on the context, either a matter of consensus, or a matter of personal opinion. And in the context of "important" prizes and lasting literary fame, your personal opinion, as much as I might agree with it, means pretty much fuck all, chap. The "literary greats" of tomorrow will be those that the relevant part of the establishment will declare as greats, and there's nothing you can do about it, unless you're ready to wait a century or to become a pope of the establishment yourself. In other words, if you can't blaze it faget, deal with it faggot.

Good night, gentleman, and may you be more cold-headed next time.

>>6107535
I don't know where a bait was taken. Someone noticed that any men is superior to any woman, which conviently implies that the set of men is minored while the set of women is majored. I was merely asking if it was then possible to use a property of infimum and supremum in that context. The answer was disappointingly unsubstantial, to say the least.

>>6107667
>awards are representative of talent
k

>>6106282
How was he sexist? And I bet that anyone who went through shit like that would be a little resentful of those who didn't have to and spoke when they knew nothing of it (like the people in his town while he was on leave; not women but men), and he also loved his mother dearly. Not really sexist.

>>6106507
Name a woman that can be considered 'the greatest to ever live' in her field.

>>6107573
>I'm going to spy on my wife to make sure she hasn't been sleeping around
>because if she has been fucking other dudes I'll kill her
>also I fucked Calypso for like three years solid

>>6107959
Your mom in the field of whoredom.

>>6107596
>James bond is a hero

anon. . .

>>6107970
Odysseus is the most alpha character ever conceived--right or wrong didn't matter to him, might was the only right.

He cries all the time, he blinds cyclops, he steals sheep, he murders guests, he razes great cities to the ground.

Odysseus doesn't have to answer to any morals.

>>6107667
>greatness is awarded from the subjective opinion achievements of critics

>>6106424
Perfect example. The true misogynist is a total sociopath in that every he wishes from women is set in cruelty.

Tropic of Cancer.

>You can forgive a young cunt anything. A young cunt doesn’t have to have any brains. They’re better without brains. But an old cunt, even if she’s brilliant, even if she’s the most charming woman in the world, nothing makes any difference. A young cunt is an investment; an old cunt is a dead loss. All they can do for you is buy you things. But that doesn’t put meat on their arms or juice between the legs.

>>6105702

>>6106442
>Thinking your hysterical butthurt is contributing to making women be as good as men

Oh women...

Brutus loved Portia

>>6107970
>I'm going to spy on my wife to make sure she hasn't been sleeping around
Is that a problem?
>because if she has been fucking other dudes I'll kill her
I cannot recall Odysseus ever outright saying that in homers version, I could be wrong though. Furthermore it is explained more than a single occasion that he was trying to see which of his maids had betrayed him. Killing those who were unfaithful to their king in a heroic age, is not misogynistic, its what a king has to do to maintain total power. Odysseus would have killed any who had betrayed him
>also I fucked Calypso for like three years solid
He was fucking Calypso because she was a deity. Besides it was his fate to do so

>>6106346
i guess misogynists are a superset of misanthropists, so sure

Tyrion Lannister

>>6106271
>cry-baby?

>>6108588

what I was going to say

also Giovanni from Giovanni's Room

Luke Rhinehart

>>6107667

>last five years

why would anyone give a fuck about that when we already have hundreds of years of literature?

henry chinaski

>>6108588
>>6108952
"...I suddenly recalled that it was here in the squalor and gloom of this sunken street, terrorized perhaps by a premonition of the future, that Mona clung to me and with a quivering voice begged me to promise that I would never leave her, never, no matter what happened....and I watched the train pull out, the train that was bearing her away; she was leaning out of the window, just as she leaned out of the window when I left her in New York, and there was that same, sad, inscrutable smile on her face, that last minute look which is intended to convey so much but which is only a mask that is twisted by a vacant smile.....And now it is I, standing in the shadow of the viaduct who reach out for her, who cling to her desperately there is that same explicable smile my lips.....there is an ocean between us; there she will stay and starve, and here I shall walk from one street to the next, the hot tears scalding my face."

Context a bitch, ain't it?

>>6105544
Noice dubs m8

Randall Patrick McMurphy

>>6105644
>Victor Frankenstein

explain?

>>6106279
You won't find a reputable scholar who says that it isn't.

>>6109804
>appeal to authority
probably /lit/s most frequent logical fallacy after ad homeniem.

>>6108057
>>6108958
>>6107754
>>6107767

Would you just look at all these butthurt dudes

>>6109930
"Western" is just a commonly accepted term that is not strictly tied to geography. Appealing to scholarship which created and maintains its definition is entirely appropriate.

Are you literally retarded?

>>6105544
dub dubs

>>6105524

>>6106282
You probably would be too if you had to fight in WWI and then came back to find a bunch of cossetted bitches alternately telling you to man the fuck up and how hard they had it because something bad happened to someone else.

The whole thing did a good deal to end Victorian ideals of womanhood in favor of the idea that women were idle parasites, in turn helping the feminist movement--which thrives on dissension between the sexes--quite a bit imo.

>>6108958
People weren't allowed to say "fuck" or "vagina" for most of those hundreds of years, that's why.

>>6109998

No I'd imagine he literarily retarded.

>>6106360
Everyone knew exactly what you meant when you said "better", i feel like theyre highschoolers just introduced to logic so they used the criticism that was obvious to everyone: "define better", despite not needing the explanation. Either way they attacked the phrasing of the argument while avoiding the substance, which is also probably why they cant reconcile with themselves that they might just be a pile of dog-shit, i know i am, and i know that theyre are plenty of men and women who are better than me

>>6105544

>>6109953
Contemporary lit is shit, if it isn't perfect (like the canon) it's a waste of time.
Stay mad, cunt.

>>6110110
Nah, women are inferior, deal with it.

>join wrestling team in high school
>at one point get pinned by a girl in front of hundreds of people, including my mother

Thanks for triggering me, fuckin shitlords.

>>6111717
Did you enjoy it? That sounds pretty erotic.

>>6111740

Think about it, if I won I simply overpowered a girl, if I lost I lost to a girl.

Either way I lose. Joining the wrestling team was one of the worst mistakes of my life, and a very dark time.

>>6111717
>teenage boys and girls wrestling together
Go on...

>>6111520
then why are you afraid of talking to them?

>>6111777
Why talk when you can just bang?
Being in a frat is fucking great, but nice projecting?

>dating a feminist
>shes completely submissive and will do anything for my dick in bed
Goes to show you how inferior women are and how useless they are for anything other than a quick fuck.

>>6108024
>Odysseus doesn't have to answer to any morals.

Which is the absolute opposite of an alpha male

>>6111972
I can't believe Troglodytes like you post on /lit/

>>6111750
Just win you fucking bitch.

Was bullying really bad in your school or were you just a straight bitch?

Also this thread is not going change annnyyy opinions with how you guys are arguing. Just insecurity being pumped into a gender issue.

>>6113382
Mad cunt detected.

>>6113508
Are you sexist because you got friendzoned?

>>6113511
I literally said I get mad pussy, are you literally retarded?
I'm sexist because woman are inferior.

>>6113523
Does you mother know about your hot opinions?

>>6113523
I can feel you tipping your fedora from my bed

>>6113527
Well my parents were the ones who paid my frat dues.
>>6113533
Nice projecting.

>>6113534
>frat dues
the ruse is up old sport

>>6113547
It's not impossible to get into a frat.

>>6113549
I'll bet you've never given a woman an orgasm. I can sense it in your syntax.

>>6106283
Woman detected. All myssiles(get it?) lock-on.

>>6105524
I'm glad I got to this board late. It's been a fun ride.
Nice bait OP

>>6113556
I have, but anyone's who's ever laid a woman (definitely not white knight betas on the internet) knows that it usually takes some work to give a woman an orgasm.
(ur not getting the last word in btw if thats wat ur hopin for)

>>6113558
>>6113556

I like you both. If this were a romcom set in a seatle cafe, it would end with the two of you having the whitest babies ever.

>>6113564
Even if you win this internet argument, you'll never experience the joy of love, you're a fraternity sheep (lol) and you probably won't live a very meaningful or literary life, unlike me.

>>6113574
>you'll never experience the joy of love, you're a fraternity sheep (lol) and you probably won't live a very meaningful or literary life
Neither will you :)
Humanities frat btw so get fucked

>>6113584
>Humanities Frat
Wow, they have those? Do I even need to comment on this? Isn't this self-evidently pathetic enough?

>>6113589
No as pathetic as defending women you'll never meet on the internet :)

>>6113595
Compared to, say, the football frat, how well attended are your parties?

>>6111717
That's better than being pinned down by some faggot. Is that what you wanted? You must have, because wrestling is pretty fucking gay.

>>6113603
Just as well, nobody's going to turn down a chance to party.

>>6113608
I'll bet they'd rather party with football players than pale tryhards

>>6113611
>pale tryhards
lol nice projecting

>>6113615
>nice projecting
I'm a homeless black man in a public library in Tangiers actually.

>>6105524
Hamlet