/lit/ - Literature

The reason why the right wing makes so little art is because the right is by nature dedicated to preserving the social order under which they already benefit. They do not have the impulse to challenge societal norms but rather protect them. Mishima for instance was only really possible due to Japan's dramatic shift toward liberalism following WW2 as a reaction to the events of the war.

>but /pol/ turned it into an argument about Michael brown.

>>6109940
> imbroglio Leni wasn't the greatest filmmaker ever

ts eliot and mishima were the only reactionaries who knew anything of poetry

besides it probably has a lot to do with the rights aversion to decadance

>>6109940
right faggs cant into challenge their points of views. And you need to challenge your point of view in order to create stuff.

you have to be insane to make art.
the right is of unimpaired mental faculties.

>>6110015
yeah but leni's films only seem good extrapolated from their context..
like they're only good as a 'homoerotic' celebration of this kind of nostalgic 'rebirth'

seen at the time I think most would have been deeply distrurbed by this kind of anomic 'sovereignty'

>>6110050
its basically like zizek rammstein thing

>>6110001
Almost all great art created before 1960 was created by people who today would be thrown in prison for hate speech or otherwise defunctionalized and ostracized for their views being so far right in comparison to what is politically correct these days. Certain academic disciplines like the English department are almost entirely devoted to complaining about how rightwing past creators were. Almost all of the Western canon is rightwing by today's standards.

>The reason why the right wing makes so little art is because the right is by nature dedicated to preserving the social order under which they already benefit.

That only applies to classical liberalism (conservatism), and even that sometimes seeks a status quo ante rather than a status quo. Other forms of rightism can be as radical as anything. Seeing as how far-left politics are perfectly socially acceptable and can put you on a path to a lucrative career whereas far right politics are the strongest taboo that still exists in our society, I'd say that rightism is more far radical than leftism. People in power at least actually identify the right as a threat.

>They do not have the impulse to challenge societal norms but rather protect them.

There is absolutely nothing about present social norms that appeals to anyone right of conservatism. We are living in a nightmarish dystopia as far as they are concerned and they seek to burn society to the ground and start again.

>>6110032
>right faggs cant into challenge their points of views. And you need to challenge your point of view in order to create stuff.

Leftists churn out uninspired, soulless propaganda by the bushel. The only difference between leftists and rightists is that leftists actually have a hope of getting published.

The real reason that rightists don't produce art is because rightism is shut out of the upper middle class literary and artistic circles. All major social institutions belong to leftists. They control the media, academia, the film industry, the publishing industry and every other avenue of mass expression. Of course rightwingers aren't welcome in these fields. They've been blacklisted, and their ideas censored. You might as well conclude that rightwingers are uncreative because Soviet literature was bereft of rightwing ideas.

>>6110092
this is an awful post

>>6110121
And you're an awful person.

>>6110092

Take off the tinfoil hat, Alex.

>>6110133
Prove me wrong. Write a short story in which the moral is that immigration is bad and submit it to the New Yorker. If it gets published, I'll eat my words.

>>6110015
Leni's a fantastic director, but greatest film maker still goes to Welles because most of the other marks of filmmaking he scores higher in

>>6110092
>They control the media, academia, the film industry, the publishing industry and every other avenue of mass expression.
>the

This world's a lot bigger than you think.

Did you per chance mistake your right and left ?

>>6110139

Houellebecq?

>>6110139
Anon, newspapers are telling us on a daily mail basis that immigrants are out to steal our jobs and our unemployment benefit and that we need to push all the foreigners into the sea. Politicians make careers out of saying this kind of stuff. How can you believe that anti-immigrant rhetoric is not allowed?

>>6110164
Tell me then. In which country can I publish my rightwing novel and see it adapted into a major rightwing motion picture? Iran?

>>6110172
maybe your novel is shitty.

Even 300 got adapted.

>>6110092
artists have always been on the left generally
the only reason past creators seem conservative to you now is because western society in general has been drifting left (at least culturally) since at least the late 1920s

>>6110092
I like this. You mind if I screencap your comment?

>>6110166
You mean that guy who almost got THROWN INTO PRISON for his work and had to FLEE HIS COUNTRY? Yeah, rightwingers sure have just as much opportunity to freely speak their minds as anyone.

>>6110169
Newspapers like that are shunned by the journalistic community, and writers for them are persona non grata. And a few newspapers and websites hardly equate to major publishing houses and and television networks and movie studios.

>>6110178
Meanwhile Holy Terror was universally denounced and destroyed Frank Miller's career and he hasn't been allowed to produce a major work since then. I think most people just just missed the rightwing implications of 300 because of the setting.

>>6110092
>mfw this will cause leftie tears
Hahaha.

>>6110184
You mean since the French Revolution

Hamsun, Mishima, Borges were all pretty right wing. Some guys started out very far left and got more right wing as they aged like Dos Passos and Vargas Llosa.

>>6110204
I said at least, homie.
I'm no historian

>>6110019
eliot didn't start out as such. only, as with everyone else, when he accumulated wealth to protect.

>ITT: lone fedora going ape because nobody wants to publish his shitty novel about brown people tekkin er jobs

>>6110092
>they dont let me in to the cool guys! :(
hitler had the same problem :^)

>>6110172
The Culture War has that effect on people, on both sides it makes them see them see themselves as the endangered ones. People on the left are threatened by the perceived right presence in the military, the private sector, and religious organizations the same way you see their dominance in the art, academia, etc. And of course there are those on both sides who will see gommies and fash creeping in everywhere. You can find either themes in the most innocuous of things if you look hard enough.

>>6110198
not really. leftists squabble with conservatives. But that Anon is a radical reactionary. Right wing but precise opposite of conservative.

>>6110220
>>6110223
good posts

>>6110220
>>6110223

Typical leftie.
>hur dur left is so much more artistically superior and le more intellectual xDDD circlejerk
>some guy comes up and blows everyone the fuck out
>le fedora meme :^)
>can't even form an argument against him
>resort to shitposting

>>6110220
>>6110223
>>6110226
>>6110227
I'm a Christian anarchist with theomonarchical inclinations actually. I'm apolitical as far as you people are concerned. I just happen to think that you have your heads shoved up your own asses just as much as any rightwinger. Forgive me if I play devil's advocate in an attempt to reveal this to you.

>>6110092
This is absolutely true.
Someone like Ezra Pound would never get published now days

>>6110240
the christian is the reactionary part of you, and anarchist is the radical part of you so I was correct.

>that guy with ebin image comparing Hitler and Newman followed by dumping pics in the same vein in 3,2,1...

>>6110139
They can't really.

Check Richard Millet. Kicked out of Gallimard's Comité de lecture because he made 2 essays about the collapse of culture and explained that it was the result of a mix of bad education system + massive immigration which isn't assimilated with the values of the country they come in.
Journalists also tried to discredit his 30 years as a wonderful novelist saying that he wrote only shitty novels.

The great writers of the past tend to be disregarded more often when they were reactionaries or even just patriotic.
When people try and are encouraged to censor old texts because they contain several occurrences of "nigger" all you can do is question the system.
I saw people getting furious and sticking stickers with "disgusting racist content" in any Tintin Au Congo they saw during the last holidays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gebYlbOfiI

>>6110024
>rights aversion to decadance
the right wing is usually supported by those 1% of society who have an interest in preserving the status quo...they're the most decadent of all

>>6110236
he didnt btfo anyone, hes literally QQ'ing how he sucks at life and blames others for his failure.
like any other self-proclaimed right wing lowlife.

A lot of the futurists and modern artists of the early 20th century were fascists

>>6110172
the blind side
forrest gump
lone survivor
almost any clint eastwood movie
all extremely conservative
just off the top of my head

>>6110263
>that strawman
Le intellectual face.jpg

>>6110240
>you have your heads
I didn't actually give any indication of my opinion

>I'm a Christian anarchist with theomonarchical inclinations actually
>I'm apolitical as far as you people are concerned
I forgot the fedora meme still refers to unironically aloof 'freethinkers' like you

>>6110245
I'm neither reactionary nor radical. I don't vote. I don't participate in any kind of activism. I have no party. I don't take part in politics at all. You could say I'm a centrist but I'm not even that. My interest is religion. I have very little interest in the concerns of this world. I only disclosed by political "affiliation" because that's where my religious beliefs happen to intersect the political plain, and it's barely an intersection. When asked about my political beliefs, I just say, "I don't care what humans do. I don't think government should exist, but there's no getting rid of it, and it's not my place to get rid of it anyway. I don't think humans can properly run things, but that's the only option we have right now. My ideal political system is a monarchy led by God Himself, but it's not up to me to bring that about. That's the full extent of my political beliefs."

>>6110271
yo do you ride the tiger bruh?

>>6110240
>you people

>>6110271
>I don't care what humans do
I hope you're joking right now

>My ideal political system is a monarchy led by God Himself
This isn't a unique perspective. Every religious person and especially religious academics appreciate this.

it doesn't exonerate you from questions concerned with 'in the mean time' the way you think it does.

You just want a convenient way to dodge the debate, preferably one that looks high minded to disguise your laziness.

>>6110312
No, I just think there are more important things in life than worrying about which gang of thugs happens to be running things into the ground today. As this thread demonstrates, I actually have an extensive political knowledge, more robust than the "political" people here such as yourself, even if that's not where my interest is. Even in my apathy I surpass you.

>>6109940
Because leftists consider pic related "great art."

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder chief.

>>6109940
Because Plato said it was a bad influence. Also romantism was a conservative movement, you unerudite. I really hope you aren't tagging pre-1789 art in a left-right scale.

>>6110328
You don't know anything about me.

>>6110338
No it's people like you that are the problem, there are no limits to art and attempting to set limits tries to narrowly confine and define what art is. Art is an abstract human concept that cannot be discussed in objective terms.
>beauty is in the eye of the beholder
You even contradict your fist statement with the one above. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there are people who think that can is art, it must be art even if you don't perceive it to be.

>>6110414
thr no limts oooooooooon literatur u can rite shit how u want maaan

>>6110414
>No it's people like you that are the problem

wow so tolerant
very diverse
much progressive

>>6110092
All this truth.

>tfw the leftists will be swept away as soon as society can no longer sustain a massive surplus population of effeminate whiners

>>6110328

>>6110425
When did I ever claim to be tolerant or progressive?

>>6109940
Source?

I think history disagrees with you, m'pleb.

>>6109940
>meanwhile in reality

>>6110424
Being good is not the same as something being defined as art.

>>6109940
dunno about you guys but in turkey there was always a strong base of right-wing (nationalist, islamist) poetry. left-wing poetry is also quite decent but struggles a bit at the birth of the republic because they try to break established poetry tradition. after 1940 though it's magnificent.

>>6110092
Good post.

>>6109940
Because all art is really quite worthless

>>6109940
>leftists actually believe they produce better art works than the right
>can't see that it's just mainstream media and academia circlejerking around works with any signs of progressivism
>believing every right-winger watches Fox news and hates blacks
>being this brainwashed

OK, can someone explain to me what this thread means when they write "right" and what do they mean when they write "left".

>>6110634
>i dont hate niggers guiz can i be part of the sekrit club?xD

>>6110483
Fair enough. However, if there are no limits to art then "art" becomes a meaningless label.

>>6110092
Amen.

>>6110634
maybe not you but 99% of right wingers are just angry idiots who cry "dey toooook man jooooob" about anyone who can't speak English and are extremely Christian with and irrational hatred of anyone different, especially gays and blacks.

Also if you think right wingers are good artists then your really, really fucking deluded.

>>6110670
>99% of right wingers are just angry idiots who cry "dey toooook man jooooob" about anyone who can't speak English

This is pure ideology. How many "right wingers" do you even know? I'll bet you get your news from John Leibowitz.

>>6110670
can I be right wing and not be christian or be part of any kind of religion?

>>6110670
[desire for citations and proofs intensifies]
I'll wait

>>6110670
no, aren't, and you're going to live your whole life maintaining these simplistic, reductionistic views of reality, generalizing everyone that disagrees with you with meaningless catch-all terms like 'conservatives', and you know why? because you're a intelectually dishonest baby

>leftist art

>>6110690
>traditional art

>>6110683
Prove anything you claimed and if you look anywhere on the Internet you see right wing idiots blaming all the problems in the world on foreigners/Muslims/Jews or anyone who isn't white.
>>6110682
If your a self hating atheist like most of /pol/ but if that's the case you might as well get off /lit/
>>6110680
I overhear right wingers all the time and just watch any right wing YouTube video (or the comments on left wing channels, kek) or like I said above, Facebook/Twitter and any social media and you'll see how fucking stupid right wingers are, they'll call black people niggers and insult muslims while claiming they're not racist, it's fucking ridiculous.

>>6110710
>the Renaissance
>right wing

>>6110719
God bless.

>>6110719
dont fall for the bait, he uses this argument everyday

>>6110661

Wrong. It becomes a protean label. One readily changeable according to its enviorment.

>>6110710
Why is this better? Because it looks more realistic?
Did you know that this scene never happened? None of theses individuals were ever in one place at the same time. It's a sham, mate. This dude used his imagination.

>>6110711
>no need to prove, just look around ;)
>they hate everything muslims jews, the list goes on xD

well meme'd, my friend. great post!

>>6110710

>renaissance
>perspective
>secularism


>traditional

Kek

>>6110737
>One readily changeable according to its enviorment.

AKA it has no fixed meaning AKA it has no meaning AKA it is meaningless.

>>6110756

>no fixed meaning = no meaning

someone needs a dictionary

>>6110661
Yes, there is. Art is made without a practical purpose; it isn't a tool.

One common misconception is that every art should be good, or that when you call something artistic you're somehow speaking about its inherent quality, when in fact it only serves to differentiate it from utilitarian, practical work.

>>6110711
I am not a self hating atheist. I am neither. Good try tho.

>>6109940
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrVDATvUitA

The greatest musician of all time is a right-winger. But to show true faith in God in art or to make something which can honor His perfection are both very hard undertakings.

In other words, right wing art is harder to make than leftist. It is even harder when the zeitgeist is way more on the side of the left than on the side of the right nowdays.

>>6110092
Is it just me or have the republicans come up with this insane perception of the world out of nowhwere due to
>muh glenn beck

It's like they've lost all track of actual history and just revised the past to meet a paranoid schizophernic idea of the world as interpreted as a Philip K Dick novel.

I mean, Obama has done almost nothing of note to even be angry about. Bush was awful from every possible standpoint I can see but they still view his presidency with nostalgia. I have no idea what they think would be different if McCain or Romney won their respective elections.

>>6110786
Source that Bach was a "right winger" in his age?

He was a devout Christian, but a "right winger"? Not so sure.

>>6110786
You can't just claim that people were "right wingers" because they lived in the 18th century and made art for the aristocracy. Sure Wagner for instance is "right wing" but is it really appropriate to apply 20th century definitions to figures from prior to the french revolution?

It's absurd to call people living more than a hundred years ago "right wingers" or "left wingers" : both would be considered far right (socially speaking) today

>>6110812
>Obama has done almost nothing of note to even be angry about

The fucker almost started WWIII.

Why the fuck he is poking Russia? Why he can't leave eastern europe alone (offering NATO membership to states that have frontiers with russia)? From God knows where did he took the brillant idea to invade Syria last year?

He is trying to expand US sphere of influence without any regard to power balance. We're suposed to live in multi-polar peaceful world after the fall of Soviet Union, yet he can't resign himself to sta in his continent and be happy with it.

>>6110761
Please explain to me how something whose meaning can mean whatever you want it to mean has any meaning.

>>6110670
Don't worry, we in Europe regard you leftist americans even lower than your rednecks and way more narrow-minded.

>>6110867
>fucker almost started WWIII
Are you joking? The republicans were pissed because he was being too lenient on Putin or have you retconned that as well by now.

>Why he can't leave eastern europe alone (offering NATO membership to states that have frontiers with russia)?
The majority of Ukraine (north and west) wants European integration and is tired of the government being beholden to Moscow. The south and east are ethnically russian and object to it but they are a minority overall.

>From God knows where did he took the brillant idea to invade Syria last year?
Invasion is absolutely not the same thing as airstrikes especially when those airstrikes are against a common enemy of both Syria and the US.

>He is trying to expand US sphere of influence without any regard to power balance. We're suposed to live in multi-polar peaceful world after the fall of Soviet Union, yet he can't resign himself to sta in his continent and be happy with it.
Obama isn't a kissinger type. The question of what the US should do as the sole remaining superpower has been a constant problem in US IR circles. The idea that the USSR falling would lead to a peaceful world is absurd. It's never going to happen.

>>6110818
>>6110835
Religious, conservative (even in his age, the guy was so christian that he didn't make opera because he didn't like pagan myths), workaholic.

If this isn't right, what the fuck it is then? You can't rule out entire period of time just because in that age leftist values didn't dominate. People earlier in the thread were calling renaissance leftist even if the dichotomy didn't exist back then.

I might as well rule out modernism and post-modernism as well too, since both are hostile to right wing values. Modernism is almost defined by this hostility.

Reminder that before Marx progrssive meant a pro-free trade retard, who was into epic Enlightenment literature and just wanted to make money and exploit people.

>>6110910
You conflate every idea ever.

>>6110905
>>6110867
Everything is connected to the petrodollar. Arab Spring, Syria, ISIS, Russia, all enemies of the dollar keep falling. WWIII soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC3tINgWfQE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEHIjmlYP7U

>>6110927
Can you just condense what you want me to see from those videos as a written point? Not that I doubt the validity of a video with fake film grain and a black and white filter over Charles Krauthammer saying vaguely ominous things but I actually know quite a lot about international politics and would like you to say something instead of having an hour of other people's arguments.

Is war possible? Yes.

If it happens would it have to do with resources and money? Most likely.

If someone else was president would US policy have be different? Perhaps but the idea that Romney or McCain would have been more pacifistic is laughable.

>>6110719

Not entirely untrue...

>>6110954
My point is that US geopolitics are so tied-up that no president would make a difference. They have a option between warfare and economical suicide.

>If someone else was president would US policy have be different? Perhaps but the idea that Romney or McCain would have been more pacifistic is laughable.
They wouldn't.

>>6110964
Okay, so are you implying malicious intent? That there is some leader that is in control of this?

How do you anticipate the war going down?

Do you think Russia and China are not pursuing their own economic interests?

>>6110980
>China
yes
>Russia
no

>>6110986
What is Russia doing then? You think they are an innocent victim of US imperialism?

Are you by any chance eastern Ukrainian or Russian? Would you like to shift this discussion directly to Russia's political and economic interests?

>>6110980
It's not malicious, it's self-preserving.

China has been trying to adopt a gold standard for years. Russia was about to favor the Euro instead of dollar. This turned them into enemies.

The Tunisian revolution and all the following turmoil happened shortly after the announcement of a unified African currency.

>>6110092
>The real reason that rightists don't produce art is because rightism is shut out of the upper middle class literary and artistic circles.

But there are plenty on the right who have money. People often call the Republican the party of the rich and big business. Why don't they just make their own "hollywood"? They made all those questionable christian colleges/diploma mills where they could get "degrees".

>>6110196
tbh, Miller was already destroying his own career with ASB&R and TDKSA

>>6110993
>What is Russia doing then?
Slavic Ragnarök
>Are you by any chance eastern Ukrainian or Russian?
No
>Would you like to shift this discussion directly to Russia's political and economic interests?
Absolutely. If this is gonna be /pol/ thread it might as well be a good /pol/ thread.

>>6110172
america

hollywood blockbusters are very conservative (the incredibles and the dark knight trilogy being the most blatant money printers, others slightly more subtle) and there's also a up and coming ring of christian/traditionalist b-movies that make it into major theaters

>>6111036
Good thing the nationalists are getting destroyed in Ukraine, nothing makes me more happy than Russians spilling the blood of nazis.

>>6111005
>China has been trying to adopt a gold standard for years
Not sure who told you this or why you think it is true. The last thing china wants is an inflexible currency. They need to maintain a certain ratio to the US dollar to maintain their manufacturing market-share in the US.

>Russia was about to favor the Euro instead of dollar.
Absolutely NOT true. No one wants to go anywhere near the Euro as a reserve currecyuntil after the recession and the eurozone restabilizes, but apart from that isn't clear what you mean by "favor" either. Do you mean "use as a reserve currency because honestly, we don't care what one country's policy is abou that is, especially Russia. It has minimal impact over our currency.

>The Tunisian revolution and all the following turmoil happened shortly after the announcement of a unified African currency.
HAHAHA, You think that a unified African currency would be adopted let alone relevant in international finance circles? And that the US's response to this is an ARAB spring as if something like that could be planned? What the fuck are you smoking?

>>6110670
>waaaaa waaaaaaaa everyone who disagrees with my ideology is RACIST

my political beliefs are pretty far left, but holy shit do I ever hate leftists. They're are some of the most hateful, intellectually dishonest, groupthinking people out there.

>>6110927
>WWIII
This is looking at history incorrectly. The whole of the 20th century up to the present has been one continuous global war with a few cold periods between the major hot segments. The fact that we still don't recognize the "Cold War" as its own world war and as a direct continuation of WW2's geopolitics is negligent at best, ideological delusion at worst. WW3 proper probably ends with the USSR defeat by the USA/NATO (since the wars in Vietnam, Africa, the Near East, South Asia, and East Europe had by this time ended and the Korean war reached its seemingly-eternal stalemate) and what when the global conflict erupts again in the early 21st century, we can only call this WW4.

>>6111036
Okay, so begin.

>>6111062
how the fuck is the Cold War a continuation of WWII or pre-WWII politics in any way

i mean, it features some of the same concerns in the sense that Europe is still Europe but come the fuck on

>>6111055
In early 2014, Gazprom and other major Russian companies declared they would starting selling oil/gas for euros instead of dollars. I don't know if you are aware of this, but Russia still is the main provider of gas to Western Europe.

>>6111079
I am indeed aware of that, thank you for attempting to condescend, and let me tell you that the impact of that change is purely semantics. It doesn't change actual value at all. I'm sure that symbolically Russia meant it as a "fuck you" to the US but it honestly has even less impact than if they switched their foreign reserves to the Euro.

>>6110746
>Painted on the Apostolic Palace in the Vatican

>Implying classical philosophy hadn't been coopted into Christianity

>Implying it's secular art

>>6111056
>fascist pretending to be left wing
Just fuck off.

>>6111055
>And that the US's response to this is an ARAB spring as if something like that could be planned?
Not that guy, but while the Arab Spring didn't begin with US meddling (unless we go a bit further back and acknowledge that its US meddling that caused the conditions that led to the Arab Spring) the US was its primary cheerleader and did everything in its power to keep it moving, knowing it would be the killing blow to the Middle-East. It's almost an exact replay of the Soviet-Afghan conflict: find the reactionary opponents of the secular government, arm them to the teeth, step back and let them kill each other. And, just like the Soviet-Afghan conflict, the US made the right conditions for an ultra-reactionary force that is too large for them to contain.

>>6111088
>calling anything right-wing "fascist"

get outta here philistine

enyclopediadramatica.se, the website in the sticky, redirects to some blog. Does anyone have the #bookz instructions?

>>6111088
way to prove my point man

my mother says I am a work of art

>>6111078
>What is the Iron Curtain?
>What is the Chinese Civil War and the founding of the PRC and Taiwan?

>>6111101
>pics

>>6111056
>>6111088
>>6111093
What have we learnt about the left-right dichotomy today?

>good /pol/ thread
👽™

>>6111092
I think you need research more about the modern middle east. It isn't nearly as simply as you are presenting it.

>>6111093
One second you're "far left" and next your right wing, you're not fooling any of us you Poltard

>>6111131
i didn't make that post, moron

>>6111116
I'm not implying that the modern middle east is simple at all, nor even that the Arab Spring, the fighting in Syria, Libya, etc., and the rise of IS are simple phenomenons in themselves. All I did was point out that while the US didn't cause the Arab Spring it helped it along for its own goal of regional destabilization. To add, I don't think any announcement of a unified African currency had real play in the US' actions in North Africa and the Near-East.

>>6111141
>Near-East
Nice Eurocentric world view you moron.

>>6111141
What do you think the US did to help it along?

I don't think the movement was substantially impacted by any actions of the US.

The movement was spontaneous and the US withheld support for a long time in every instance but Lybia (which was possible mostly because Gaddafi had isolated himself politically over the years and was supported by none of the major powers unlike the Syrian government.)

Right wingers are unempathetic hard heads. Its hard to create when your world view is a tiny pinhole.

>>6110670
no, those are americans
everyone on that continent is doomed, no matter what camp you put them in

>>6110770
Art's purpose is to cause us enjoyment. It is made for human pleasure.

>>6111254
ok mohammed

>>6110956
Actually the Rennaisance predates the emergence of distinct left and right-wing ideologies, and as such, any attempt to asssociate either to the period or characters from it is an exercise in masturbatory historical revisionism.

Again can someone please say what he thinks is right and left in this context, of art...
Does right mean religious, totalitarian, racist and chauvinist?
Seems that even people who are trying to defend the right agree that that is what the right is...

Why is it so hard to agree that during this time of population growth, scientific discovery, advancement in knowledge and thought
we would have the best social orders attitudes towards different social questions?

Cant we just agree, once and for all, that contemporary western society is, currently, the pinnacle of human advancement?
In every way, today, we are better of. The poor in western societies have access to more material wealth and knowledge than the richest aristocrats of earlier periods.

>>6111296
>Does right mean religious, totalitarian, racist and chauvinist?

You might as well call it evil once for all. It is this kind of opinion on the right that kill any kind of discussion since one of the sides claims monopoly over morality by seeing the other side as an enemy.

>>6111271
I'm not associating political ideologies, I'm associating character traits.

>>6110770
>One common misconception is that every art should be good
that's right we're making intentionally bad art because we're broadening the experience or some shit, not because we're mentally ill talentless hacks

>>6110092
I actually think this is the best post I've ever read on 4chan.

>>6111352
Now you're playing a game of semantical silly-beggars.

And badly at that.

>>6111008
There are a handful of them, like the Koch brothers, but most of the politically active billionaires are left or center-left.

>>6111472
nice reading comprehension, friendo. what i clearly meant is that there's good and bad art; calling something artistis =/= calling something good

>>6111512

It's about "muh degeneracy" m8

>>6111008
>Why don't they just make their own "hollywood"?

They do. Who do you think is making those weird Christian films and runs the Bible networks?

>>6110092
>Almost all great art created before 1960

stopped reading there with this sub-freshman tier essay trash

>>6111516
There are plenty of right wing millionaires or not quite multimillionaires but wealthy people. I remember Rob Dreher at The American Conservative taking about how some movies he reviewed for people wanting to create movies that had strong right wing themes were often dogshit. You have guys like the Domino CEO/former owner(?) who went full Catholic and donated millions to such causes. If extreme guys like Gleen Beck can make millions off lower/middle class right wing types it should be easy enough to set up a right wing propaganda shop.

>>6110910

Much of modernism bordered on fascism.

>>6109940

I've always maintained that they have different goals. What is the right wing really? In modern terms, we're basically talking about free market capitalism in the west. If you believed in that, why would you go into a field like art where there is little money to be made? You may as well as why there are so few left wing capitalists.

>>6110670
>99% of right-wingers

For someone on this board which espouses actual logic you sure seem to love the hasty generalization.

For real, stop samefagging spic maggot. Whose job did you take that you feel so guilty about?

see >>6110689

You act like "right" and "left" is what comes first. Don't you think it's more likely that people who go into business are more likely to lean right and people who go into arts are more likely to lean left? The right traditionally protects their business interests, so it makes sense for capitalists to want to be right wing.

>>6110670

Man, American politics really does a number on young people. What happens when these people go overseas and realise that politics everywhere else on the planet looks nothing like the US? What happens when you complain about "liberals" in countries where the liberal parties are right wing?

The US is like some fantasy land that resembles nowhere.

>>6110719
>renaissance painters were christian
>painting christian subjects
>christians, according to this thread, are all right wing
>therefore renaissance is right wing.

checkmate, atheists

>>6110223
Judging from your thumbnail, it might have been more apt to say, "They don't let me into the pool, guys! :("

>>6111982
>re-birth of Greco-Roman values
>Christian
>right wing
Only on /pol/.

Right and Left are just general words for the politically moderate mainstream. Thus no one gives two shits. Far left and far right are another situation; but then again, the far right is for scum.

>>6110092
You've some valid points. The problem with the one about the Western Canon's material being considered rightist is contextual. Every generation in a failed attempt at originality retaliates against the previous chapter of the Canon, thereby giving it the temporary label "conservative." Aside from that I essentially agree with you.

>>6110328
>Even in my apathy I surpass you.
Why bother constructing and articulating an argument then? You obviously care, otherwise you would simply lurk.

>>6110092
>Almost all great art created before 1960 was created by people who today would be thrown in prison for hate speech or otherwise defunctionalized and ostracized for their views being so far right in comparison to what is politically correct these days.
keywords: "these days." Thus only from the present perspective are they considered rightist; but any discussion of art, particularly from a leftist mindset, must be grounded in the context of the artist: a context in which they were left. Unless you advise basing all discussion of everything upon how it might be reflected upon in later decades, this is a meaningless point.

>Certain academic disciplines like the English department are almost entirely devoted to complaining about how rightwing past creators were.
That's not what critically analyzing texts is. Unless you base this on your personal experience in some shitty undergrad program, in which case you've got nothing better to expect but shitty thought and writing.

>Almost all of the Western canon is rightwing by today's standards.
see above

>Seeing as how far-left politics are perfectly socially acceptable and can put you on a path to a lucrative career
Just entirely untrue. I didn't realize a professorship is a lucrative career path, let alone an adjunct. And you certainly seem to be taking wherever you live to be the global standard; far-right neo-conservatism is staunchly defended in much of the United States. Radical politics of any kind is not generally accepted in Western capitalist countries outside of the academia (which you seem to be putting an inordinate amount of emphasis on).

>>6111982
You never read Pico and Ficino?

>>6112143
>Greco-Roman values
>left wing
U wot m8

>>6112274
Yes, racism didn't exist and there was no concept of 'homosexuality', you could have sex with whoever, everything was going well until Christianity showed up and claimed sex is a sin and to 'love your country' and everything went down hill from then.

>>6112290
>>6112290
This is true only because the Greeks didn't recognize race. All of the attendant actions and violence were respected though; look into Aristotle's theory of natural slavery wherein he outlines how some are born "naturally slavish," not to mention women.

so, not too much in common with the "left"

>>6112204
>(which you seem to be putting an inordinate amount of emphasis on).
Seeing academia as some grand schemer behind society is unfortunately a common thing these days.

The academics that most likely have the largest affect are economists but people rarely if ever mentions them when they rail against the academy, the fact that a overwhelming majority of the works created aren't read (http://www.psmag.com/books-and-culture/point-academic-books-publishing-writing-literature-96610#.VKK8sqMhyZQ.twitter)), the lack of "leftist" control over the material aspects of the academy, or question how actually widespread their ideas are or how the public/students received/retain them.

>>6112290
>'love your country'
Most unerudite post ever.

>>6111296
>that contemporary western society is, currently, the pinnacle of human advancement?
>being a western-centrist
Typical anglo trash doing his imperialism.

>>6111296
Current Society isn't Western anymore.

>>6112290
The Greeks thought non Greeks were barbarians.

This is from a Roman emperor also
>"Come, tell me why it is that the Celts and the Germans are fierce, while the Hellenes and Romans are, generally speaking, inclined to political life and humane, though at the same time unyielding and warlike? Why the Egyptians are more intelligent and more given to crafts, and the Syrians unwarlike and effeminate, but at the same time intelligent, hot-tempered, vain and quick to learn? For if there is anyone who does not discern a reason for these differences among the nations, but rather declaims that all this so befell spontaneously, how, I ask, can he still believe that the universe is administered by a providence?"

>>6112317
Interesting article.

The insistence on an academia-led conspiracy seems to be really nothing other than centuries-old intelligentsia-phobia with its usual right slant bolstered by political polarism.

I think it might also be a product of the higher number of non-academics moving through the higher education system in pursuit of job/job-related degrees. I'd hate to think that a couple of gen-ed undergrad courses will so piss off your average computer programmer or engineer, but that mixed with particularly virulent and poisonous websites like 4chan make it possible. I mean, neo-cons have gone on about the Cultural Marxist conspiracy for decades now, but I don't think this particular hatred and fear for the critical theory led academia really exists much outside of certain boards on 4chan.

>>6109940
Because the right live aesthetics, they don't need to create it in their environment

>>6112369
Moldbug, Land, et al.
They finally learned jargon.

>>6112379
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoreactionary_movement

I'm glad others are noticing the connection between Ignatius Reilly and /pol/ reactionaries

>>6112204
>must be grounded in the context of the artist: a context in which they were left.

lol this is simply false. If anything most great artists have been right-wing in the context of their times.

>>6109940
Is it even possible to make it in the art world nowadays as a right-winger? Right wing politics are a very strong taboo in those kinds of circles.

>>6112428
Yeah. The left has the advantage of the bar being set for someone to call something leftist is extremely low. Throw a positive gay character in a movie with mostly if not totally traditional themes/hierarchy/status quo and its "progressive".

>>6112388
I don't think /pol/ rejects the neoreactionary label.

>>6112428
You can in Hollywood if you're subtle about it.

>>6110013
I love that my pic has caught on so well.

The right is more work-oriented. Your free time should be spent with your family or using it for some kind of self-improvement. Pondering shit is a hard concept for them to understand. Sitting around and questioning the "whys" of society is seen as being lazy. They don't care about the whys, it is more of an "it is what it is" attitude. There is no desire to challenge the status quo. Yeah, pretty general statement, but I tried.

Borges.

Motherfucking Borges, you piece of pleb.
He alone amounts for thousands of stablished commie "artists".

>>6112479
He was anti-communist but he was also anti-nationalist. He was pretty centrist libertarian.

>>6112479
Why do you think he's conservative?

>>6110178

300 is homoerotic visual fan fic

>>6110092
There's actually some truth to this. It's funny how almost every 'great' American novel is just a long tirade about how terrible various norms we have are, and how they should be challenged but offer no solutions. It's kinda getting obnoxious to see how much literature that is considered great is just so cynical but completely ineffective. It's become a standard to challenge basically everything common in society because it shows a degree of self-awareness which some people interpret as intelligence. If you were to write a novel about how wonderful America is and how capitalism is the best system in the world, no one would read it. If you did the exact opposite, it would probably be much more read and respected.

I also agree with your point on how it is now incredibly controversial to be conservative now and how rare it is to find successful right wing artists. It's hard to say whether that is because they make worse art or because an industry dominated by their enemy suppresses their influence. It's probably a bit of both. I also think that the media has constantly pushed this belief that being liberal is smart. To be conservative is to accept stupidity and designate yourself as a racist, greedy idiot. If you are grouped into that, people are going to automatically think any art you may have to offer is shitty.

>>6112560
You mean gay porn.

>>6110265
>all extremely conservative

lol you are pathetically ignorant of the actual width of the political spectrum. opinions outside the Overton window exist, did you know that?

>>6110092
GET A LOAD OF THIS CUCK

The project of the right is to preserve the present or return to the past.

The project of the left is to imagine the future.

It's pretty clear which of these will attract more creative people.

>>6110711
>if you look anywhere on the Internet you see right wing idiots blaming all the problems in the world on foreigners/Muslims/Jews or anyone who isn't white.
And you can also find, in those exact same places, left wing idiots blaming all their problems on the patriarchy or white privilege.
Does that mean all left wingers think that?

>>6113095
>If you were to write a novel about how wonderful America is and how capitalism is the best system in the world, no one would read it.
Atlas Shrugged? Although even that is based in criticism of some dominant cultural and political trends.

>>6112143
>A reactionary and radically traditionalist movement
>Not right-wing

As many have said, trying to split left and right that early is pointless, but...

This right/left dichotomy really doesn't explain the wealth of political thought tied to various artists throughout history. Even just in the West, does it make any sense to consider the great Greek, Roman, Late Medieval, Renaissance, or Enlightenment artists left-wing? Or to take the past century where the distinction might be meaningful, what exactly about Jackson Pollack or Picasso is 'left-wing', two of the most recognizable figures in all the art created in that hundred years?

If the Left represents progress it necessarily has to abandon its own proponents after a couple decades. If it means something specific politically then it has very little to do with art at all.

This myth about art being Leftist seems to be tied to modern popular culture, which is a terrible way to identify where art is.

>>6113095
>offers no solutions
What makes you think literature is meant to solve the problems of the world?

> I also think that the media has constantly pushed this belief that being liberal is smart
This partly due to American conservatives them selves though, who generally hold intellectuals in suspicious regard at least publicly to pander to some demographic. Of course conservatives are generally hated by the academic and arts communities. Conservatives generally want to cut financial support of these things as much as they reasonably can, and deride artists and non-STEM academics generally.

ITT: "we leftists are so amazing because we have superior intelligence. what do you mean I can't do basic math?"

>>6113283
>This partly due to American conservatives them selves though, who generally hold intellectuals in suspicious regard
This is because of how we define the term intellectual though. Even a very far Left guy like Chomsky is aware of this, and realizes how dumb that term is

>>6113287
ITT: "we rightists are so amazing because we have superior intelligence. what do you mean I can't do basic math?"

>>6112388
>tfw you found yourself agreeing with most of what Ignatius wrote

rationalwiki a shit. Its fedoras trying to scramble for legitimacy in the changing Internet climate, you should realize this.

>>6113299
>changing internet climate consists of an increase in fedora memes
Either way, if the GOP takes the White House in 2016 all the internet contrarians are going to rubberband back left

>>6113299
>tfw I used to go on rationalwiki five or so years ago
Coming back to it the SJW influence on that site is jarring. They rained down on Atheism+ back then.

>>6113320
>not being retarded is SJW
lel

>>6113328
>he thinks rationalwiki isn't retarded

>>6113328
They're rabidly pro-feminist now

>>6109940
Those who are good at production suck at marketing, and vice versa.

>>6110092
cuck

>>6110092
It's bizarre to me that people are replying negatively to this post. Would anyone on this board seriously argue that it isn't more acceptable to make a Communist film than a Fascist one?

>>6113328
They used to criticize Islam for human rights violations and misogyny, now they even betrayed their idols Dawkins and Harris in defending those "poor, misunderstood, angelic" muslims from any criticism. Tell me how that's not retarded.

>>6113225
Atlas Shrugged supports some kind of producerism, not capitalism. Investment wouldn't work very well without the framework of a state.

>>6111967
>What happens when you complain about "liberals" in countries where the liberal parties are right wing?
in america the liberals (i.e., the democrats) are also right wing. both parties are right wing. it's not that much different from europe really

i fucking hate it when europeans go on and on about how their political system is so much more advanced when half their countries still have fucking kings and queens

Art rarely pays well.
Architecture is rahter like art and pays well more frequently.

The question "Why can't the right make great art as frequently as the left?" makes sense.
However "Why can't the right make great ARCHITECTURE as frequently as the left?" doesn't.

It's about the higher materialistic reward orientation and pessimism/realism of right wingers.

As we can see IRL
A right winger is more likely to BUY meat than books. (higher materialistic reward orientation)
A right winger is more likely to SELL meat than books. (pessimism/realism)

>>6113172
>what is futurism

>>6113172
>The project of the left is to imagine the future.
kek
you wut m8

I think a lot of it has to do with interpretation. Most liberal academics are very leftwing and they bring this heavily to their work. The way we discuss and interpret literature is largely informed by SJW types. I think a lot of stuff is far more conservative than it might appear.

>>6109940
Historically speaking most of the writers were overall conservative. But in terms of contemporary art it is very important to note that liberal arts are dominated by leftists while economics, law and stem are either equal or more right.

>>6114383

>this absurd tapestry of left/right binaries

the world is not what you think it is