/lit/ - Literature

based

If Foucault what?

*of

Fucking phone.

>>6107642
I only recently found out he was a faggot

Then everything made sense

le diable incarné!

>>6107642
I think he's great.

>>6107660
i wonder how stretched out his asspussy was, considering he used to spend all his free time in san francisco bath house and died of aids, i'd say very

>>6107642
Intellectual Caliban, full of inane and vacuous ideas. rekt by Chumsky and Groot.

>>6107693
mmmm power relations

best of the 20th century nietzsche spin-offs

>>6107694

>rekt by chumsky

not even close
the one debate they had consisted of them speaking over each other and trying to redefine each question in their own terms, effectively discussing nothing

Who's that semen daemon?

>>6107642

From I recall he falls into the same trap that most post 2nd World War continentals do when they say stuff like " all knowledge is the production of power relations and therefore subjective " but fail to justify why their view that all knowledge is subjective is not itself merely subjective, and why we should take it seriously given it's self defeating nature.

>>6107707
people like you killed him

>>6107711

R
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>>6107711

subjective =/= self-defeating

>>6107711
try actually reading some foucault, you aspie fedoralord

>>6107711
double dubs were wasted on this shite

>>6107711

Oh look, someone is parroting their philosophy contract instructor at a shit university, a professor whose knowledge of Foucault is based on a Wikipedia article citing Nietzsche as one of F.'s biggest influence and his half-baked memories of Nietzsche's own work, which he read twenty years ago.

>>6107723
>2015
>reading
It's like you plebs don't even know that science has made reading obsolete.

>>6107768
Dude, Foucault directly continuing Nietzsche's path is a bit undeniable, makes me think maybe you haven't read your Nietzsche.

>>6107705
That's not Deleuze.
I like most of the "Post-Structuralists" though, I just think Deleuze is the very best.

>>6107783
If this is not b8, you must be retarded.

>>6107789
I think Anon's more referring to the kind of professors who talk about things that they don't actually have a full understanding of. He's not saying that Nietzsche isn't a gigantic influence on Foucault so much as pointing out that some professors would use this and a flawed interpretation of Nietzsche to try and dismiss Foucault without having truly read him (which does happen, in philosophy maybe more than in other fields, and especially with Anglos in regards to non-Anglo philosophy).

>>6107783

how did you come across that information?

did you read it somewhere?

>>6107804
>professors dismiss foucault and never read nietzsche

you gotta stop going to these 3rd rate state schools m8

>>6107793
What's so good about Deleuze? Honestly curious, I have no idea really except that he's a leftist.

>>6107794
Literature hasn't done anything for the world except give self-proclaimed intellectuals an excuse for mental masturbation. All the people who actually contribute to humanity and get things done know that's it's better to pick up a science textbook instead of indulging in their pretentious reading hobby.

>>6107810
I started reading that anti-oedipus shit that founded the "biopower" shit that was trendy with wishy washy non-marxist lefty types in the early 2000s but out of like 20 pages there was a about two sentences of actually content and a bunch of awful prose, maybe it was better in french but probably not

>>6107813

picking up a science textbook is reading literature, dipshit

>>6107711
this post is getting a lot of hate but I more or less agree with it, having only read Foucault's History of Sexuality Vol. 1 (which I found entertaining if not exactly enlightening)

it's the same thing as what Chomsky keeps bringing up in the debate, Foucault can dismantle power structures all he wants but if he doesn't have any idea what he's working toward (some sense of morality, however subjective) I'm not sure I see the point

>>6107813
>All the people who actually contribute to humanity and get things done know

it's better to start a business and hire a bunch of dumb ass science phds to do what you tell them

>>6107813
>reading is only for literature
>reading a textbook is not reading
>scientists who read actually don't read
>no scientist ever liked literature
>no literature-lover ever did science.

Stop the bait, now. You're no good, not even at that.

>>6107821
It's mathematics actually.

>>6107822
Foucault is essentially an academic, he does is academic job (wether well or badly is another matter). Working towards greater understanding is enough. We didn't ask the guy who discovered giant magnetoresistance to produce real-life applications, yet those applications came in due time, through the work of others.

>>6107828

mathematics is a formal semiotic system like any other language
aka mathematical text is literature

>>6107838
No. Mathematics has various formal systems, but isn't one itself. Yes. Mathematical text can be understood as "literature" broadly speaking.

one thing i learned from reading /lit/ is that brits are fucking stupid, whenever you read something really astoundingly dumb it's always some british dude

>>6107836
But electromagnetics provides some objective description of reality, and I don't really see any reason to believe that Foucault does, though his claims are interesting and (possibly?) useful.

>>6107869

electromagnetic theory in no sense describes an 'objective' reality

>>6107873
I mean...this is what post structuralists actually believe dot jpeg. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

>>6107819
You have no idea what you're talking about, Deleuze is very important in both an Academic sense and in the Marxist and post-Marxist political sense. To pretend like he's not influential is to not understand his writing, his ideas and topics, and who he influenced (In 2007, he was the 11th most cited author in English speaking humanities, next to Freud and Kant, and that ranking probably increases outside of the Anglosphere).

>>6107877
ok, convince me in a paragraph or less what his ideas are and why i should read his shitty writing to get to them instead of skimming wikipedia

>>6107875

in what sense does a specific brand of intersubjective discourse describe an 'objective' reality outside of the discourse used to describe it?

>>6107875
even scientists know that science is just a framework for making predictions about the world, nothing more...only edgy teen atheists looking for a religion replacement think science is uncovering "truths" or some shit

>>6107877
where can i see a list of most cited authors in english speaking humanities

>>6107878
>>6107895

ITT: Idiots with big opinions

>>6107895
Here it is for 2007:http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/405956.article

I'm having trouble finding a more recent study akin to this, but I'd imagine that the numbers are probably rather similar. Since Deleuze's books were only translated into English around the late-80s early-90s, he's still a recent event in English Humanities and Philosophy, and a very popular one at that.

>>6107878
>his shitty writing to get to them instead of skimming wikipedia
If you're coming forward with that attitude, what's the point? Do you really think you can personally criticize someone in this field without actually reading them without parroting the views of others, which you may not completely understand the mechanics and specifics of?

Also, i'm surprised that the last 4/5 posts in this thread are all without capitalization.

Hey this is a stupid question but I'm hoping someone will help me out. Why is it necessary to recognize or even criticize biopower today? I understand biopower isn't inherently bad so why do we learn where it resides and why should we have discourse on it's criticism?

>>6107882
>>6107891
Not truths in the Platonic sense, but hypotheses with reliable, testable and falsifiable results, which have not been falsified after extensive attempts. This is both the common-use and and scientific community's uses of "objective" and "truth." Sure, it doesn't fit some abstract purely philosophical definition of "truth," but when we say stuff like "it's true that HIV leads to AIDS," that's what we all generally mean by "true."

Sure, this is all within a framework of the scientific method. Functionally, I mostly agree with Polanyi's criticism of Popper, but I don't think that's what post-structuralists are getting at when they talk about how electromagnetics aren't objectively true.

>>6107926
>If you're coming forward with that attitude, what's the point? Do you really think you can personally criticize someone in this field without actually reading them without parroting the views of others, which you may not completely understand the mechanics and specifics of?

so you aren't really able explain the ideas of deleuze? i figured as much

>>6107793
Deleuze is a fucking obscurantist. A Thousand Plateaus does not make a clear point, sorry.

>>6108022
Read his works on Hume, Spinoza, Kant, and Nietzsche. Then read Difference and Repetition.

Deleuze is a rigorous meta-physician who actually creates an internally consistent philosophy.

People like late Heidegger can be posited as obscurantists but Deleuze? No way.

My Cinema teacher in college was at Berkeley when Foucault held a chair there and went over to his house once with a gay buddy who got buttfucked upstairs while my teacher sat on the couch and watched TV.

My teacher also drove Kenneth Anger around San Francisco for a day while Anger had, unbeknownst at first to my teacher, a suitcase full of coke in the trunk of his car.

>>6108083
sounds like your teacher is a fag

>>6108091
He was married to another young professor in the department. She was a hot Victorian Studies professor. They had me over for dinner with my buddy, who was also a grad student in the English Dept., a few times. Nice people. It was weird that they were less than a decade older than me and both were tenure track'd.

>>6108106
>It was weird that they were less than a decade older than me and both were tenure track'd.

silly goy, tenure track is only for the chosen people

>>6107789

Sorry for my unclear syntax. "his half-baked memories" referred to the contract instructor, not Foucault.

>>6108038
this
the guy knows his author

>>6108118
He was a Muslim. Persian, to be exact.

She was a Catholic who graduated from Notre Dame. Actually, interesting story, her mother dropped out of a Convent and her father was a defrocked Priest who were both expelled because they were knocking boots in secret and accidentally a baby.

>>6107793

Oh Gawd, no. Please tell me you did not just say de-lose is the best poststructuralist.

please. No. PLEASE. He's tied with Baud man for worst.

how do you guys manage to talk about Foucault an philosophy in general like it's a silly sport? I can not see which author or theory would lead you to quickly call retarded to someone with whom you do not agree. There are many more examples on this thread though, and just a few attempts to share some ideas

>>6108132
There's no way that anyone besides Lacan could be the worst. He was pretty much the epitome of all the things people hate the poststructuralists for with hardly any substance. Deleuze rekt him with anti-Oedi too. The only reason he's still popular is because of a coke-addled Slav.

>>6108143

reading philosophy is like collecting baseball cards
join the fun

>>6108324
I have a degree m8. I guarantee you it's not

>>6108324
it would be rad if post-structuralist texts came with a stick of rock hard chewing gum stuck to the inside of the back cover like one of those cd-roms in the back off a microsoft office book

>>6108324
Not really.
you make more money selling baseball cards than you do with a philosophy degree

>>6108340
that is true
i make my money with web design
philosophy is for the rest of the things in life

>>6107934
>it's true that HIV leads to AIDS
not even true

>>6108313

Some day, I will have to give D a second chance. I read thousand plateaus (interesting but so wrong headed in some ways, like the metaphor of rhizomes kek. . . . like power doesn't circulate among the 85% horizontally), and Difference and Repetition, a book I decided was a waste of my time half way through. I encountered not a single idea in it that I hadn't already digested in studying Adorno extensively. Drawn from different sources, true, but Adorno is a better writer and philosopher.

>>6108349
>Some day, I will have to give D a second chance
nohomo

>>6108328
>I have a degree in collecting baseball cards
>believe me, it's serious business

>>6108313
Mirror stage is talked about so often idkwtfyata

>>6108359
I don't know what the f*** you are thinking about?

>>6108374
heck yes!!!

>>6108374
you don't know fucking mirror stage? step it up

>>6108359

Lacan borrowed his mirror stage, and pretty much everything apart from borromean knots, from Freud

>>6108359
The idea didn't even originally come from him and really seems like something one could extrapolate from Hegel anyway. Not to mention it's still based on an ontology. Plus Hyperreality, rhizomes and Deconstruction are concepts by other poststructuralists used to an equal if not greater degree if that's what we're judging this by

>>6108022
>subsuming Guattari under the sign of Deleuze

He's more or less intellectually responsible for a lot of the SJW bullshit that currently poisons the internet

>>6108480
how do you figure that? it's clear there are a lot of people on the planet who don't know dick about foucault

>>6107642
He is quickly becoming on of my top tiers.

>>6108480
He would be directly against the movement, as most of the annoying SJW uses rehash discourse instead of facilitating their own means of power.

>>6108493

Self-identified social justice warriors will often cite Foucault and pomo critical theory as main influences in their thought

>>6108530
but foucault argued agains "gay identity", well, he didn't argue against it so much as point it out as being a construction of the medical knowledge industry beginning in the victorian era, so really i don't see how he would help a bunch of teenage boys demanding free breast implants because they were "born that way" or whatever

>>6108480
SJWs misunderstand Foucault. Is identity politics yet another flexing of biopower? One anon criticized identity politics citing the end of History of sexuality.

And another issue is the sjw (stupid acronym) means of activism. No longer do you have to actually stand for something reblogging a picture from Denny's tumblr or the fox animation blog seems to suffice. This form of activism hands power over life to the corporation.

>>6108530
>some idiots are using an author to legitimize their discourse, even if he's actually disagreeing with them
>therefore that author is intellectually responsible for them

Right, Sherlock. Next time you'll argue that Plato is intellectually responsible for nihilism and Nietzsche for fedoratheism.

>>6108551
Any form of activism hands over power to the bourgeoisie. The idea that begging the man who is hitting you not to break your teeth this week, because he knows when he breaks your teeth his dick gets cut when he rapes your mouth is not developing power. Every kitchen has a knife, murder or castrate your rapist.

>>6108564
Oh, what it must be like to be a young teenager full of angst.

>>6108564
You should try to read more.

>>6108551
>>6108480
yet more proof that every single one of the worst posts on /lit/ are about what famous philosophers would think about "SJWs"

>>6108374
you're allowed to swear here.

gay bdsm is bad ass, just like turtlenecks.

>>6108731
You should really read more. Self-loathing isn't cute.

>>6108580
You should try to read less and unionise more.

Theory is all ideology.

>>6108649
You're a fucking idiot. Why leave any philosopher within their own time frame? Foucault is just as if not more relevant today. Identity politics are talked about now more than ever and the internet allows for incongruous misconstrument of the arguments. It's not about "sjws" its about the relocation of power

>>6107711
>their view that all knowledge is subjective
Read more, retard. Start with Nietzsche and Heidegger.

>>6108038
You forgot his work on Bergson. It's Bergson that gives birth to Deleuze in the first place.

>>6108862
>Foucault is just as if not more relevant today. Identity politics are talked about now more than ever and the internet allows for incongruous misconstrument of the arguments.
What exactly do you mean here? Foucault and identity politics are two opposing things, he showed the stupidity of it.

>>6107852
i learned that from /int/ and /pol/ but i agree it's a good thing to know in general

>>6107852
at least they're not as stupid as americans

>>6108916
You should not learn anything from either /int/ or /pol/, for they have no actual information to teach. You would be better to just read more.

>>6108862
I'll relocate some power into your ass.

>>6108480
idiot

>>6108925
unfortunately there isn't a british flag above your post but i can tell you're a buttmad britposter

>>6108903
That's exactly what I mean. One anon complained about Foucault and some "muh sjw shit" they are opposing. I think it was in this thread one brought up how Foucault I'm HSV1 criticized "gay identity" and even the notion of sexuality.

>>6107642

>20th century philosophers

not even once m9

>>6108903
To clarify:
Foucault if used by (again this stupid ass buzzword) "sjw" it is being used incorrectly. If anything biopower is abused in identity politics to give state legitimacy or capital dominance

>>6107723
>>6107768
>>6108883

Actually I like Nietzsche allot, he was what got me into Philosophy. Heidegger I haven't dealt with much other than reading Introduction to Metaphysics, it was alright. I don't deny that those two were important Philosophers.

Anyways, I have read Foucalt and learnt him in Social Theory before I jumped ships to Philosophy. None of my Philosophy professors have ever mentioned them, including the Nietzsche/Schopenhauer expert.

>>6107721
See Nietzsche says " This is merely my truth", he is aware of what he is doing, Foucault is mostly a poor man's Nietzsche, he also cares more about legitimizing perversion than fostering nobility and avoiding leveling Egalitarianism and resentment.

>>6108313
>Lacan is the worst

Absolutely

>>6107878
>implying i/lit/erates have read Foucault

>>6108903
Intersectionality allows SJWs to maintain identity politics despite objections.

...

It feels like there's a lot of anons getting butthurt that others think Foucault is a dead dumb faggot, getting upset as if he were not dead and in fact, a personal friend of theirs. This hero worship is cancer on understanding philosophy, and in fact most ideas.

The problem is not knowledge of Foucault. The problem is you don't like the conclusion people have come to. If someone came on with an encyclopedic knowledge of Foucault's writings and knew every minute detail of his faggot life and every drop of semen his asshole had ever gobbled, and proceeded to dismantle every idea he had, you'd simply switch to another argument. So I'm not reading that faggot because a bunch of clearly developmentally challenged anons said so, and not arguing with you gibbering mongoloids about it. Bye.

>>6109021
Edgy teen. Come back after reading some books.

>>6109028
Gibbering mongoloid confirmed.

>>6107642
absolutely based.

>>6109021
Ad Hominem, the post.

>>6107706
>effectively discussing nothing
typical philosophers amirite????

>>6108741
>unionise
>support cancerous anti-efficient make-work organizations

I don't think so

>>6107642
He was literally (literally) a bugchasing faggot. Le trash, etc., etc.

>>6108349
>thousand plateaus (interesting but so wrong headed in some ways, like the metaphor of rhizomes kek. . . . like power doesn't circulate among the 85% horizontally)
holy fucking god you're retarded, don't bother picking it up again

>>6109123
Where?

homo

bump

faggot, aids, etc

I can't read something written by someone who liked to have his anus fisted by other degenerate males.
I mean if he was just gay it wouldn't be a problem but this is going too far.

>>6107932
what the hell is biopower

who even calls it that

>>6107642
Responsible for SJWs, even more so than Adorno

>>6110985
Biopower refers to the state's raison d'etre, wherein the idea is that the state's biggest asset is not it's gold reserve or the intelligence of it's monarch, but it's people. If a king or government has 50,000 as opposed to 20,000, then industry can flourish and, capital can be raised, and you also end up with more soldiers who (if they are healthier and wealthier than before) are more willing to fight. Now, in order to have incredibly productive citizens, the state needed not only to ensure health, but they needed to train the bodies of the masses. This is where we see the intersection of military training and schools. If you teach a child to sit up, for good posture, their body will absorb this knowledge in their body, and it will affect other ways in which they choose to behave--the concept is that of the docile body, the body that is trained to feel comfortable conforming to standards imposed upon them.