/lit/ - Literature

>>6044999
Purdue owl does a fantastic and concise explanation on what monstrosities "post-modernism" stands for.

https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/722/08/

>>6044999

Modernism is basically enlightenment era thought. Belief in the power of reason and science to increase our understanding and better humankind.

Post-modernism is a reaction against and a critique of modernism. Post-modern thinkers think modernism gets caught in lots of false dichotomies that fail to cut reality at the joints such as subject-object, fact-value, and so on. Another common trend in post-modern thought is the critique of scientism and nihilism.

These are both somewhat superficial definitions but this is a very tricky subject.

>>6044999
Just like Modernism except taken further, to the point of skepticism, solipsism, and therefore paranoia and irony etc.

Modernism abandoned traditional ideas of narrative to focus on hyper-realistic representations of character, thought and society through extended use of techniques like free indirect style and stream-of-consciousness.

Post-modernism abandoned the realistic representations of character and society as well.

>>6044999
"Postmodernism is a reaction against modernism, and a leaping back to behind the modernist moment – just like postmodern architecture, where the term comes from – to create art out of different styles.

It represents, in my view, a determination to vault over all the quicksand of the 20th century, in order to gain the seemingly safer ground provided by a cut-and-paste job on the styles and modes that antedated it.

It's a retreat from the hard-edged insights of modernism itself. It’s an attempt to have the cachet of reinventing the traditional structure of narrative prose fiction without actually having to do the hard work implied by modernist insight."

-- Will Self

I hope neo-futurism is the next architectural style to be turned into the dominant ideology.

>>6045335
Neo-futurism is Presentism. Read "Present Shock"

>>6044999
How do you define post-mootism?

>>6044999
Nice dubntrips!

Postmodernism is Seinfeld is Bee Movie is trash.

http://www.riverreporter.com/issues/07-11-08/arts2-pugyh.html

>/.../ “Bee Movie” soon taught me that there’s only one thing more irritating than that: pointing out the puerility of these gags in the self-aware manner that has become so popular in post-modern society.

>>6045318
>postmodernism

>>6045366
Based Self.

>>6045346
It would take seven hours of useless talk.

>>6045290
Post-modernism has nothing to do with solipsism.

>>6045318
translation: I like modernism so nothing is allowed to come after it

>>6045374
This is pretty much the answer.

>>6044999
pic EXTREMELY related

Postmodernism is what Modernism initially seems like to the uninitiated plebeian. Whereas Modernist literature was written with genuine care and a desire to play with conventions, Pomo mimics that subversiveness in abstract, in the name of some braindead avant-garde ideal.

Untalented writers gravitate toward it because they feel it gives them license to vomit shit onto the page, because they know that tryhard pseudointellectuals will feel compelled to pretend they like it.

>>6045318
jesus christ is that an ugly building

OP here, thanks for the replies. As I expected, definitions and reactions are varied.

>>6045668
Curious why you think so. I've watched all of the Sopranos and haven't really attempted to ascribe it a framework or associate with a general cultural movement.

>>6044999
Why was Tony so alpha

>>6045360
Newman

>>6044999
>How do you define Post-Modernism?
I don't, nobody does.
The most accurate that you could say about it is that is about breaking the former rules of formal structure of art and literature.

>>6045888
>being a depressed little bitch
>alpha

pomo is just laying a new narrative on top of an existing one.

its a problem as people have stopped looking for something new. we've hit a roadblock and average people call anything weird post modern

a work is its own. and any comparisons should ideally be coincedental. influence can only go so far, and post modern bullshit needs to end

>>6044999

>How do you define Post-Modernism?
The symptomic art of a post-industrial, post-war, post-imperial, post-religious, bourgeois-controled world. Where there are too many grand narratives to stick to one.

>How does it relate to Modernism?
Modernism = developed under stress of an disenchanted world.
Postmodernism = developed under stress of a world that distrusts of itself.

Postmodernism is part of Satan's Spiritual Structure and is a doorway to demonic possession.

>>6047750
>>6047750
>Raves and XTC
>XTC

>>6045087
>Modernism is basically enlightenment era thought.
Jesus Christ

>>6047161
uhh its not that people stopped looking we just realized the only new shit is in post-modernism. which is also coincidentally why it was invented

>>6045290
You don't know what you are talking about

>>6047750
>lord of the rings

Okay now really?

Post-modernism is the idea that you can approach anything from a multiplicity of viewpoints, that each of these can produce frameworks of analysis, and that there are meaningful results that can be extracted from these particular fields of criticism.

It's relation to Modernism is one of reaction to the Modernist idea that you can uncover the truth hidden 'inside' or 'underneath' something by baring its basic elements. Post-modernism disagrees with this on a basic level, especially in the sense that the given method of analysis of the thing tends to be one biased by and in favor of the viewpoints of the dominant class of society.

From these two definitions you can say that Post-modernism is a relativistic take on making sense of a given thing, that is skeptical of the viewpoint given by the dominant class of society because of its predilection for finding oppressive truths in its analysis. This means that there is a small amount of dogma in the field and it isn't purely relativistic, it is firmly in a field of morality that emphasizes empathy rather than power as a means for finding truth.

>>6047812
best descrip ive read

>>6047760
Do you have a problem with this?

>>6045318
>It represents, in my view, a determination to vault over all the quicksand of the 20th century, in order to gain the seemingly safer ground provided by a cut-and-paste job on the styles and modes that antedated it.
You can feasibly reduce modernism down into a partial description like this
An enormous part of modernism is concerned with its own place within the canon, and was constantly forming new dialogues between traditional classics and contemporary progression.

>>6047812
dag, put like that, pomo sounds pretty gay

>>6044999
>How do you define Post-Modernism?
>How does it relate to Modernism?
how about:
how do you define Gamer Gate?
how does it relates to videogames-satanism connection?

Modernism assumes a greater, universal truth.

Postmodernism allows for the possibility of multiple truths.

>>6047865

Elaborate on that...

>>6047868

Stupidest shit I've ever read

>>6047864
it is

>>6047756
Hey, what gives? They're a good band!

>>6045881
The show's focus on identity crisis, detachment, the absence of a purpose etc are shared by existentialist philosophy and modernist lit, and I guess post-modernist a little as well.

The early episode 'The legend of Tennessee Moltisanti' is a wonderful illustration of this. The discussion between Christopher, representing the pre-modernist conception of the character (yearning for a clearly defined identity + purpose, experiences an obviously artistic arc), and Paulie, representing the modernist conception (no externally crafted journey, simply responds to random experiences), is all you need to understand the show's push. And it's funny.

>>6044999
Read On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we6cwmzhbBE

>>6047750
>yoga
>video games
>fornication

Well, in my opinion, post-modernism (I'm talking about the whole range of artforms now) reflects very much the consumeristic nature of western society. The imperative has become that the only value of an art piece lies with the appraiser, and any notion of 'form' has been destroyed by avantgarde, therefore only attribute that really matters in art today is the ability to shock.

>>6047750

Fuck, I enjoy/practice like half of those things.

Though fuck postmodernism, that thing is satan fo sho.

>>6047864

post-modernism drinks solely cosmopolitans with little umbrellas in them and owns a collection of antique dildoes

>>6048545
kek this happens with every academic knowledge.

do you recommend the whole course ?

>>6047750
>Marihuana

>>6047750
Did /pol/ make this?

>>6048545
So after looking at this, it seems like Post-Modernism is what you would arrive at after asking "But what IS [concept]?" repeatedly.

It reminds me of the defeatist mentality of "We are all going to die anyway so why bother".
>If you look at an object at the most basal level it's impossible to define, so why bother trying to make sense out of anything.

Also, how do they take the leap from "everything is a social construct" to "the evil oppressors are oppressing me with their social constructs"? For that matter how can they define anything as an oppressive class when it itself is a social construct?

I don't have a great grip on philosophy, so can anyone tell me if I'm totally wrong?

Also how do I into philosophy? Any recommended books?

>>6047750
>cyberpunk culture

>>6047750

If I promise to steer clear of lycanthropy and Halloween can I have double shrooms please?

>>6044999
>How do you define Post-Modernism?
after (or following) Modernism

>How does it relate to Modernism?
it follows Modernism (or comes after)

>>6049998

You're probably joking, but the fact you think that's amusing just makes you even more herp than if you actually thought it was true.

>>6050007
>makes you even more herp
what the fuck are you trying to say

>>at a poetry reading
>a guy asks for some details about the poem I read, actually pressing for details about my life
>tell him that the author is dead and that all meaning derives from him

>>6048500
Underrated post

>>6050011

Post modernism is the literary equivalent of the spoken french language.

A lot of people talk it but nobody knows what it is exactly.

And yes i know "talk it" is not gramatically correct, it's on purpose

>>6047812
This is the best post in this thread, it explains shit and is well articulated. Thank you, anon.

>>6050011

>I've finished herping, now watch me derp.

>>6049221
I think "what is concept?" Is a good approach, to be honest, but not like it's executed because they tend to reach the conclusion you pointed, that everything is a social construct and their next step is to disrgard it as an actual, existindo thing that impacts reality.

"What is concept?" should be used in order to clarify words and terms and delimitate boundaries, not to break everything down with nothing to put in it's place.

>>6047812
I never understood why this pluralism was not made explicitly and broadcast more far before the postmodernism, typically in the antiquities, or at least why it was forgotten. It is not difficult to see that 'everybody disagree on everything at every time' and that this observation calls for a critique of the perspective from my society/city/background just as much as the critique of the next society/city.