/lit/ - Literature

no

>>6029322
Generals are shitting this entire board up. There's plenty of Marxist discussion to go around without a general.

>>6029322
This is my favorite Marxist General.

Frankie or Tankie?

Humans are inherently shit and greedy and so are you.
>m-muh societal conditions
The same conditions that made you a Marxist.

>>6029558
wasnt he a Stalinist?

Could this be trimmed please?

>>6030091
I don't believe this thread is here to explain or to debate with non-marxist.

TENDENCY STRAWPOLL

http://strawpoll.me/3454737
http://strawpoll.me/3454737
http://strawpoll.me/3454737

>>6032207
>Post-Marxism / Frankfurt School
Where my Leninists at?

>>6032207
>Tankies

>>6032246
>the Proletariat
>not the vanguard
nice try

>>6029322
Do you guys know how many socialists are marxists? Do you guys believe its kind of essential to be/have knowledge of marx to be a socialist?
also opinion on david harvey?

>>6032207
How long before the one guy who voted trot falls out with himself and starts a splinter group

>>6032644
The first question is a little vague, i meant from experience have you noticed if theyre well aquainted with marx or not.

Best Internationale ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGZHPjowC28

ITT: The last men try to save the world

You guys are fucking fascists. The first thing you will do is getting rid of democracity. YOu will kill every jew, gay, other thinking person or people having their ownshow. I hope you will die by starving,as you killed 70 million chinese farmers and 50 million rusian ones.

GO! CAPITAL FRONT!

>>6032701
>>6032707
Please stop trying to bait for responses

Anyway, what did Marx take from Hegel exactly? Dialectics and Master Slave?

>>6032207
where is the plain Marxist answer

>3 votes for Stalinism
>1 vote for Maoism

Confirmed for picking positions on hearsay without any substantial reading on either ideology.

>>6032729
>>6032729
I dont want fucking responses, I want you to stop trying killing innocent people because of religion, race or political orientation. You know, we call this crime. But in your sick fuckbrain,I would like to know what is going on in there, I bet,you will think it´s okay to kill 6 million jews.
I bet you would also kill this boy if some socialist fuck would tell you!

>>6032747
you aint foolin no body son

>>6032762
what´s the problem?

>>6032771
read it

>>6032747
Nice meme

>>6032743
>http://strawpoll.me/3454737
I just choose Stalinism for shit and giggles.

Although honestly, I don't find Marxism-Leninism and it's offshoots to be completely horrible.The modern left has become far too appeasing towards the liberal centre while at the same time losing it's populism (the thing that made it big), and if one really manages to start and win a revolution you're going to have to deal with the same challenges that faced Russia and China: a ruined infrastructure, a lack of mid-management and trade isolation (which is an even worse problem today). We have things to learn from Stalin and Mao.

>>6032743
>Dismissing Leninism despite being the ideology from which the successful world revolutions originate
>b-b-but shtalin and meow and muh gorillitillian dead
>muh tankies
Come back when you actually liberate somebody and learn some non-Cold War prop history, Trots/capitalists.

>>6030085
>Frankie or Tankie?
Autonomism plox thanx bye!

Any Debord fans in da house?

>>6029322
Just kidding. ITT Lenin checks um

>>6032729
Historicism.

>>6033630
Not really. Debord is a tail ender of the spontanaism of Western proletarians in the 1950s in the cultural sphere. The commodity form still doesn't meaningfully circulate through this domain, despite the protestations of Hardt and Negri, and the point of production and reproduction are still central.

If you enjoy Debord but wish to come on in for the big win, then reading Socialisme ou Barbarie's workplace reports, or similar from Solidarity (UK) might be useful.

>>6030091
>human nature

Why is Marxism so popular in academic circles, but virtually nonexistent in mainstream society?

>>6033752
>Why is Marxism so popular in academic circles
It isn't really. Marxist analyses are popular. Marxist praxis is an anathema. Discussing setting policemen on fire is acceptable. Setting policemen on fire is unacceptable.

>Why is Marxism…virtually nonexistent in mainstream society?

Die Linke membership: 63,756
Standard periphery for activist organisations: 10x base
Die Linke activist reach: 640,000 germans
German population: 80M

Greater than 1 in 160 Germans act on Marxism.

>death count of 110 gorillion
>good

Please refrain from disseminating this subversive, assassin ideology and redeem yourself with capitalism while there's time left. The day of the rope will come soon

>>6033783
>tfw people still believe Die Linke is marxist

how dumb do you have to be

>>6029322
>marxism
>post some cunt who isn't Marx
Shit OP. Go and eat a revisionist dick.

nepal just had a mostly successful maoist/marxist revolution

the naxalites are still very big in India and growing

>>6033918
I can see you're an edgy idealist fuck who puts personal subscription to ideology ahead of class praxes.

>>6033902
you are a communist. I can see through your disguise

>>6033947
nope. communism is a cancer that arises out of cognitive dissonance and a juvenile desire of insurrection

>>6033943
>I can see you're an edgy idealist fuck who puts personal subscription to ideology ahead of class praxes.
wat

>>6033980
You are posting the contrary position in order to discredit it. It happens here a lot.

>>6033988
You are refusing to accept the sincerity of my intentions because it would lead you into something that you know you can't win: a debate wherein you would have to discuss the rationales behind your broken ideology. /lit/ commies are the worst kind, so smug and full of themselves that they don't even engage in arguments with the enemy, instead deflecting every tiny piece of discussion with irony

>Communism seems ideal
poorfag
>Capitalism rocks
richfag

>>6034225
except few poorfags actually think communism seems ideal

>>6033783
lol Die Linke isn't "Marxist" you fucking dumbass. It's a social democratic party in the same stream as Labour, fuck you.

>>6034225
lol, it's quite the opposite brah. it's mostly upper middle class and deluded trust fund kiddies that support marxist/communist ideals

>>6029322

My friend said he prefers Kantian philosophy to Marxism. Was he just trying to sound smart or does that actually make sense?

>>6034245
That's not true.

Trust fund kiddies are most likely to be neoliberals/liberatarians to justify evading tax.

>>6034039
>You are refusing to accept the sincerity of my intentions because it would lead you into something that you know you can't win: a debate wherein you would have to discuss the rationales behind your broken ideology. /lit/ [noun] are the worst kind, so smug and full of themselves that they don't even engage in arguments with the enemy, instead deflecting every tiny piece of discussion with irony

This is new /lil/ copy pasta

>>6034271
It is true and you are refusing to accept the sincerity of my intentions because it would lead you into something that you know you can't win: a debate wherein you would have to discuss the rationales behind your broken ideology. /lit/ capitalists
are the worst kind, so smug and full of themselves that they don't even engage in arguments with the enemy, instead deflecting every tiny piece of discussion with irony

>>6034273
did I do well?

I honestly don't understand Leninists.

You guys constantly claim that you guys are the correct way of leading the working class, but basically every Leninist organization, from the Supreme Soviets to the Leninist parties in the west all constantly do the same shit.

>Group think and no self-criticism. Instead of admitting they are wrong, they split apart and create 2 new Leninist organizations.

>Top down secret leadership, Head of the party meet in secret, pass down edict, 2nd level meet in secret, work out how to organize the lower level, eventually last level doesn't get any say, but just has to play out the will from the top down.

>Absolute complete disassociation from the working class and on the ground agitation in any meaningful way.

I've been part of several Trotsky groups and they all functioned the same, talking to other people who have been part of such organizations around the world and they all act the same. Little clique clubs that have no impact on the real world and even really their members, nothing you do in a Leninist party or organization will actually improve your life, like actual on the ground agitation, forming or joining a union etc etc will.

While I think Anarchists are too disorganized and optimistic and there will be some need for a "vanguard" of sorts, the way the Vanguard operations of Leninism are currently organized and play out are complete and utter failures and if they actually got into power, would most definitely and disastrously repeat the mistakes of the USSR and China.

There really needs to be a new strain of Marxist thought for the 21st century and the conditions of the 21st century and not shitty Keynesianism masked as Socialism that Chavismo is.

>>6034314
You proved his original point. Good job retard.

>>6034245
As someone who has been apart of left wing organizations and political agitation, debates etc etc.

Socialists - Poor and "middle class" families, not incredibly well off, but comfortable.

Libertarians - Nerds and rich kids.

Young-Conservatives - Rich trust fund kiddies who walk around in suits even though they are 18 and don't have a job.

Most poor middle class in general I find though tend to just be apolitical or reactionary.

>>6034326

You are refusing to accept the sincerity of my intentions because it would lead you into something that you know you can't win: a debate wherein you would have to discuss the rationales behind your broken ideology. /lit/ [noun] are the worst kind, so smug and full of themselves that they don't even engage in arguments with the enemy, instead deflecting every tiny piece of discussion with irony

>>6033593
While I agree Leninism has led all the successful revolutions, Leninism as well has always ended in complete disaster and dystopia.

There needs to be a wider analysis and criticism of Leninism, we need to take what works and dismiss what doesn't.

Leninism is great for the initial Revolution period, but then quickly stagnates and becomes authoritarian and completely detached from not only the masses, but generally reality as well.

Maoism has some legit criticism of original Leninism and Stalinism, but even Mao just not gave a fuck about his own ideology and seized complete power and detached the party from the masses. While I do think Mao is unfairly shit on in the west, I can not see how anybody can't see that the Flowers Bloom Campaign is where Mao completely abandoned Socialism and seized the dictatorial authoritarian powers that Leninism had already left set up.

>>6034341
In my country, about 90% of the people who vote extreme-left or center-left come from the richest families. Middle class is split between workers' party and neolibs.

>yfw the proletariat never existed according to Laclau and Mouffe

>>6034367
How can they justify that? Materially and economically, it's easy to pinpoint the Proletariat.

Do they mean as some form of consciousness or movement?

A liberal Muslim homosexual ACLU lawyer professor and abortion doctor was teaching a class on Karl Marx, known atheist
“Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Marx and accept that he was the most highly-evolved being the world has ever known, even greater than Jesus Christ!”

At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-life Navy SEAL champion who had served 1500 tours of duty and understood the necessity of war and fully supported all military decision made by the United States stood up and held up a rock.

“How old is this rock?”

The arrogant professor smirked quite Jewishly and smugly replied “4.6 billion years, you stupid Christian”

“Wrong. It’s been 5,000 years since God created it. If it was 4.6 billion years old and evolution, as you say, is real… then it should be an animal now”

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Origin of the Species. He stormed out of the room crying those liberal crocodile tears.

The students applauded and all registered Republican that day and accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. An eagle named “Small Government” flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. The pledge of allegiance was read several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a flat tax rate across the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of the gay plague AIDS and was tossed into the lake of fire for all eternity.

Semper Fi

>>6032207
>Post-Marxism / Post-structuralist 2nd place
Not a big surprise considering how often people like Badiou, Lacan and Althusser etc are mentioned all the time.
>>6034356
http://www.lacan.com/zizmaozedong.htm
This notion of dialectics provides the basic matrix of Mao's politics, its repeated oscillation between "liberal" openness and then the "hard line" purge: first, allow the proverbial "hundred flowers to blossom," so that the enemies will actualize and fully express their reactionary hidden tendencies; then, once everyone's true positions are clearly articulated, engage in a ruthless struggle. Again, what Mao fails to do here is to proceed to the properly Hegelian "identity of the opposites," and to recognize in the force the Revolution is fighting and trying to annihilate its own essence, as is the case in G.K.Chesterton's The Man Who Was Thursday, in which the secret police chief organizing the search for the anarchist leader and this mysterious leader at the end appear to be one and the same person (God himself, incidentally). And did Mao himself ultimately not play a similar role, a role of secular God who is at the same time the greatest rebel against himself?

>>6034367
Besides Hegemony and Socialist Strategy do Laclau and Mouffe have read-worthy books on Marxism?

>>6032207
>No Maoist-Third Worldist
You fucked up

Maybe now that Joot is gone we can start getting rid of these fucking trash moderators on here.

These threads belong on /pol/, not /lit/. Nobody wants this cancer here.

does obama count?

>>6034380

essentially the proletariat is a meme marx made up, more theatre than anything empirical. there was never a battle between 2 classes, it was always a more complex war of various positions.

>>6034413

duno sorry m80

>>6034356
>Leninism as well has always ended in complete disaster and dystopia.

This happened not because of the faulty theory, but mostly because of the amount of imperialist powers against the socialist states at the time; both the USSR and China were fine (As in the party stayed true) until they were taken over by imperialist powers and became revisionist.

>>6034424
you belong to pol not lit :^)

>>6034424
why don't you start a marxist thread on /pol/ and see what happens. Besides its a philosophy thread, not a political thread

>>6034424
>These threads belong on /pol/, not /lit/. Nobody wants this cancer here.
/pol/ is for Politically INCORRECT. Marxism is inherently Politically Correct, and thus does not belong on /pol/.

As for it here; there are tons of philosophy threads daily, but you choose not to target those. Instead you target the marxist thread, most likely because you disagree with Marx/ marxist points of views.

If you dislike the thread and do not wish to see it, please "Hide" it by right clicking it in the catalog and selecting "Hide".

>being a communist
Jesus fuck read some history or take an economics course

>>6034496

Probably the same thing that would happen if I tried to start a capitalism thread on /lit/

But at least the /pol/ mods wouldn't delete my thread and give me a 7 day ban for off-topic posting

>>6034498
>>6034496
>>6034491
how much are the jews paying you shills?

>>6034498
Man you people are fucking unpleasant, manipulative, obnoxious, and generally dumb as fuck.

>>6034516
Capitalism is an economic system
Marxism is a philosophy

Its not that difficult

>>6034447
>xxx party had real potential but y ruined it! if y didn't happen or z occurred we would be in communism right now.
Ah the leftist obsession with "the fall". The exact event or point in time that was cataclysmal to the failure of a revolutionary movement

>>6034557
Is this supposed to be an argument?

>>6034413
Was the entire plan of hundred flowers to blossom to bring out reactionaries? I'm not sure on this.

My understanding or belief mind you, is that Hundred Flowers was implemented to bring new ideas and to hear the peoples grievances to be able to understand where the party was going wrong, stagnating and was inefficient.

Only when huge amounts of criticism were heaped on the party, especially over collectivization of the Cooperatives and the inefficencies, did the party, under huge stress, force Mao to do a backflip and Mao to save face, pulled the whole hardline "Oh it was meant to just bring out reactionaries!"

>>6034447
I think it happened due to faulty theory. Look at the structure of Leninist parties now even small ones like the Socialist Alternative or the BSP. Secretive top down leadership, no democracy within the party, any ideological difference from the top of the party results in a "split" (Peoples front of Judea!) instead of discussion, debate and consensus and complete and utter disconnect from the wider working class.

I've read a lot of Lenin and while I agree with a lot he says (fuck the dude actually predicts the future pretty well and even describes how he thinks Agriculture will develop in Capitalism and how it actually mirrors the rise of Monsanto and other big agriculture multinationals) , there is something massively functionally and theoretically wrong. I'm not learned enough to point out what it is, but there is a reason that Leninism keeps ending up as the same authoritarian disconnected shit, be it on the state level or on the party.

One must also remember, Leninism was written for 100 years ago. The material conditions of now are very different along with the role of imperialism and even the state itself. In the modern world, the state sovereignty and a national proletariat means very little with the rise of multi-nationals, FTA's and wider globalization.

>>6034790
This isn't a problem with the Leninist party structure, its just "leninist" parties in the west are really really shitty

>>6033752

false conciousness, cmon have you even read any marxists besides marx?

>>6034245
>implying syrizia wont win the greek election on sunday
>implying they wont depend on the greek communist party for a ruling coalition

>>6032207
>no right communism
>people voting for the frankfurt cancer

>>6032207
I voted Trotsky because there was no Marxist-Keynesian/Minskyite

>>6035017
What's marxist-keynseianism? Is that a revolutionary position?

>>6035035
It can't possibly be. Keynesianism is liberalism par excellence, it actually says making up useless for people people to do is the best to fix the economy--preferring proles to do outright useless work rather than go beyond capitalism is liberalism to the fullest.

>>6035043
>useless work for people to do

>>6035017
Liberals, please.

>>6035043
yeah i don't see how anyone can engage with neo-classical economics as something other than an instance of the reification of the capitalist totality can call themselves marxist. still interested to hear from him though

>>6035017
>>6035035
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-Keynesian_economics

Marx and Keynes are both big influences, as are the early people who took influence from both--Joan Robinson, Kalecki, etc. The Marxist influence is more about his (major) insights into capitalist business cycles, so generally no, not revolutionary, but class-conscious.

A representative piece of writing https://www.jacobinmag.com/2011/07/joan-robinsons-open-letter-from-a-keynesian-to-a-marxist-2/

I am fine being called not a true Marxist but I find talking politics with anyone but Marxists to be generally horrible so here we are

>>6035065
>Jacobin.

Not directly related to your post but despite it's common perception on 4chan thanks to /pol/ and /v/, I personally find Jacobin to be one of my all time favourite magazines with really good wide range of informative articles.

The only reason it is hated and shat on so much by 4chan is because /pol/ and /v/ is filled with reactionary fucking retards who will hate anything that is left wing or progressive in any form.

>>6035035

>>6035099
Facts.

>>6034246
Your friend was being coy about being the Hitler-fellating nazi that he is.

>>6035100
That's a bit of a Libertarian meme and really has nothing to do with Keynesian economics.

Keynes did not advocate people doing useless valueless work, he advocated targeted investment to stimulate growth in sectors of the economy to try get growth again in the larger economy. Destroying wealth or doing useless work would do nothing to reboot the economy.

Not a Keynesian myself as I'm a Marxist, but I find Keynesian economics far more palatable than Neo-Liberalism/Chicago or Austrian.

>>6035120
I'm a leftist and I see them as two sides of the same ideological coin, They're just different strategies to stymie socialism.

>>6035099
I had no idea that Jacobin was disliked by /pol/ (but of course it is) or /v/ (that one I don't get). I think it's probably the second-best political publication right now after the Baffler.

>>6035120
>Destroying wealth or doing useless work would do nothing to reboot the economy.

It would grow gdp. As would the government paying the unemployed to dig and then fill in holes. This is just one of the contradictions of capital.

>find Keynesian economics far more palatable than Neo-Liberalism/Chicago or Austrian.

Keynesian economics acknowledges the reality of the state's ability to predict and compensate for crises. This makes it more stable and also more dangerous, from a strictly marxist point of view. More amenable maybe.

>>6035142
Whats the Baffler?

>>6035157
http://thebaffler.com/

they barely ever publish (maybe 2-3 print issues per year) but they have a blog post or two a day nowadays. the blogs are decent but the Salvos (the stuff that makes it into the print edition) are vicious and delicious

MARXISM IS FLAWED

>>6034974
How is Bukharin "right" exactly?

>>6034514
if we lived in the DPRK and they had a 4chan equivalent, you would be the guy telling the capitalists to read a fucking history or economics book.

it's not critical thinking, it's adherence to the propaganda you are drowned in. To you, it's confusing why we don't fall in line to the imperialist propaganda imposed on us. To go beyond the subjectivity of either side's sloganeering, let's look at the foundation of both theories. Let's set down our principles, examine our ideas--traditional metaphysical thought and dialectical materialism. Let's see for ourselves and lets test it! Without intervention or war, without sanctions or spies or bombs or infiltration, let's honestly test it!

>>6035189
You're right. Orthodox Marxism as Marx and Engels imagined it was wrong in many respects. Marx lived in the fucking 1840s when he wrote many of these works. We still had slavery, women didn't have suffrage, and the working poor were as exploited as ever with practically no regulations. Marx of course had no way of predicting the future. No man can do this. Not Marx, not Milton, Orwell, Freud or Shakespeare. No one can do this, Marx was not infallible and I agree there are some errors.

That's where Lenin kicks in!
That's where Stalin and Mao add on to the theory.
That's where a huge mass of workers and Marxist intellectuals step in and develop Marxism as time progresses.

Marxism is not a dogma, it is a guide to action, a science by which to not only examine history, but to change it.

>>6035196
No forced collectivization and some instances of market economy.

>>6035276
And what makes Trotsky left and Stalin centre?

>>6035276
collectivization happened in the USSR because overproduction of grain led to farmers hoarding it and selling it to peasants at much higher prices while they starved. If collectivization hadn't happened, the Soviet Union would've gone capitalist under Stalin. I don't know much about Bukharin but he sounds like a revisionist on par with Trotsky.

>>6035301
The opposite of what i said.
Stalin didn't have any ideology though, his strategy was basically ally yourself with a group to defeat the other group, then backstab everyone.

>>6035313
But what about Stalin's collectivization?

>>6035313
Stalin=

>Socialism in One Country
>Marxist-Leninism
>centralization and collectivization
>heavy militarization

>>6035302
Overproduction led to a fall in price, which led to what you said. But the overall movement of prices is downwards. This should be obvious because if prices ended up being higher than the pre-NEP prices it would imply that the incentive to hoard existed before, which wasn't the case.
Collectivization in comparison has no hoarding but is inefficient to a point in which the production is smaller enough for prices to be higher.
There's also more useful alternatives to collectivization to solve the problem.

>>6035359
But stalin was against collectivization until he rose to power.

>>6035385
>There's also more useful alternatives to collectivization to solve the problem.

This very much so.

In fact, Maoist China, production soared when the peasants were incentivized to make small worker cooperative units, but then production catastrophically collapsed with full collectivization.

Not that this is much even a case anymore with modern technology and farms are already largely automated and under the thumb of multinationals who control everything.

I doubt collectivization today would end so catastrophically with modern farming techniques but I still like the idea of cooperative farming units much more

You could even have a Socialist system where farmers keep their farms and their land and you just pay them a wage based on how productive they were.

>>6034243
>Marxism is a bourgeois ideology
Look who's bourgeois now, you fucking idealist.

>>6035142
>mfw the Jacobine's articles on Israel
If only the Antideutschen had an influence beyond Central Europe

>/v/ (that one I don't get).
/v/ hates everything, but...that awful lot knows the Jacobin?

>>6035142
Jacobin ragged on Gamergate while talking about real problems in the gaming industry like the near-slavery of the workers.

Ragging on Gamergate was obviously the more important part to /v/ so they hate Jacobin instead of focusing on Jacobin's very important analysis of the working conditions in the industry.

>>6036329
/v/ should read Marx, that might turn GamerGate into something bigger

>>6036348
I don't see how. GamerGate is pure ideology, there's nothing salvageable. Material conditions have to change. Unless you buy Gramsci, in which case GamerGate still isn't salvageable unless you twist it into something it's very much not, and try to make it about an intellectual critique of capitalist propaganda in video games and how we are meant to feel sorry for some cucked bourgeois bf and thus come to [falsely] identify with this bourgeois male more than our class.

Reminder that there is literally not a single person from a post soviet country in this general.

>>6035043
>actually using par excellence unironically

>>6036375
Reminder that people still advocate Christianity despite not having lived in pre-Enlightenment times.

>>6036388
>doing anything unironically
Ultimately impossible in our postmodern world. At the most you can be unironically ironic, or ironically unironic.

>>6036389
Maybe they are americans.

>>6034548
>there are no philosophies, only philosophers
BTFO

>>6036391
Most religious people don't even know what irony is. Especially Islamic fundamentalists. So I think you're wrong.

>>6036398
I was being ironic, just as you are now being ironically autistic.

>2015
>still not realising Marx was a troll
"All I know is that I'm not a Marxist".

Come on /lit/, you can't be this dumb.

>>6036403
He might of been, but he was rustled by the superior ruseman.

Stalin ruined the idea of communism in the modern world.

>>6036417
Stalin was bit heavy handed, but he put communism as a goal above everything else and fervently pursued it.

>>6034960
They will likely depend on their passive support, but the KKE have no love for syrizia.

>>6036421
Replace Communism with power in that sentence and I'll agree.

>>6036417
He ruined the idea of orthodox marxism, if anything.

>>6036457
He wouldn't have bother to write clearly researched Marxist explanation for so many of his actions if he only cared about power.

>>6036561
So there wouldn't be another revolution against him, he was machiavellian as fuck.

>>6036654
I seriously doubt he was stupid enough to think writing Marxist theory would significantly affect chances of uprising.

>>6035176
>they didn't like the Grand Budapest Hotel
The hell man.

>>6035359
>Socialism in One Country
>heavy militarization
Only because it was necessary for survival. The basis for Socialism in One Country (ie: actually thinking Churchill and the US would honor a post-war peace) was definitely one of his errors, though.

>>6035532
>but then production catastrophically collapsed with full collectivization.
Can you link to something making an argument, with statistics of the time, where full collectivization caused production collapse?

>>6036417
Khrushchev ruined the idea of communism in the first world.

>there are people in germany right now not accepting the law of the tendecy of profit to fall
>mfw

>>6034414
maoists are dumb enough, but MTWs are literally shit-tier.

>>6033593
wow, a revolution that installed a system with wage labour, the commodity as the general form, value and markets

wait
capitalism?

>>6036187
>antideutsche

do you even critique of value

>>6037540
The Revolution didn't install Leninism. Lenin dissolved the assembly when they voted for the socialist revolutionary party instead of the Bolsheviks.

>>6032646
>siding with stalin

>>6036375
I'm actually from a former socialist cunt

>>6032646
>siding with stalin cause he won

any europoors here?

>>6037555
Not that guy (luckily, there are at least two or three antideutsch regulars on here), but Kurz basically agreed with them on Israel. Also, hos thesis that the current crisis would lead to revolution has pretty much been falsified.

>>6037581
>regulars
what really? Didn't notice them
there's nothing wrong with the antideutsche notion on Israel, at least for me.
His thesis wasn't really that the current crisis would lead to revolution - he was actually pretty pessimist on the subject of revolution. In fact, he said that it's likely that more and more humans will become obsolete and thus "rationalized" (not only in the economic sense, but in the sense of dying). In other words, capitalism would devour itself and possibly us.

Correct me If I'm wrong, but it really looks to me as if the american marxist movement only consists of MLs, Trotskyists, Maoists and post-structuralists

>>6037602
Oh well, my definition of the term has become rather loose, but, yeah, leftists who don't hate israel seem to exist on this board, which, given where this is, is pretty damn nice.
I think it's not just devourment we have to fear, but also negative sublation: the people realizing that they are being devoured, and creating something much worse.

>>6037667
I believe you're talking about fascism/antisemitism as the negative sublation of capitalism, aren't you?

>>6037677
Got me. It doesn't have to take the form of historical fascism though, people have proven quite creative when it comes to ideologically justifying the extermination of the jews/whatever they say in place of jews.

>>6037689
indeed. Fascism (like every other ideology) needs to apply to the current material conditions. The core however is always the same. It's an anti-modernist ideology which personifies the abstract rule of capital over humans in the form of some boogy-man eg. the eternal jew and makes it responsible for the decline of patriarchal structures and other ideological remnants.

>>6029322
Looks like the Greeks will be the first communists in power since the fall of Yugoslavia. Things are about to get interesting.

what's the difference between Left-Communism and Trotskyism? I thought they were two names for the same thing

>>6036677
Marxist ideology affected the chances of both the old bolsheviks and the new nomenklatura rising. It affected the chances of the labour aristocracy organising for change.

Read some fucking social history of the NEP and first three five year plans before you open your arsehole and shit on this thread again.

>>6037730
A lot. Left-Coms organised revolutions in Western Europe and are closely related to the point of being intertwined with the Councilists. Left-Coms generally reject the vanguard party as a tutor of the class. They also reject the party substituting for the class.

Re read Left Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder, then go read some of the people Lenin was attacking. I'd suggest Pankhurst and Pannenkoek for starters.

>>6037723
Tsipras isn't really a communist, so he and his party aren't really interesting to us marxists, revolution-wise.
The economical and political changes in greece and the reaction of the IMF and the ECB on the other hand could be interesting. I'm still waiting for a marxist analysis on this quantitative easing thing.
>>6037730
No, left communism is "to the left" of leninism, while trotskyism was/is the opposition to stalinism and thus to the left of stalinism. The core differences are that trotskyists add a lot of stuff to their analysis (degenerated workers' state etc.) left-coms don't agree with.

good meme

>>6037747
you're completely ignoring the italian left-coms based around the CPI

Thoughts on Deleuze's writings on Marxism?

>>6037758
Yes, and for good reason. Bordigism is simply left-coms as an external internal opposition. Also the early PCd'I was authentically non-Leninist. Compare to the KPD which was built with Russian gold and was a fraction the size of the KAPD / AAUD. In many places the left-coms, often syndicalists, represent the authentic current of that nation's revolutionists. In Italy the syndicalists were already inside the nascent party, compare Hungary, which makes Bordiga a curious split, but not essential for understanding the movements of the Italian class at that time. The only reason why we scrabble around the British Party and its left-coms is the total power of labour, and the impotence of any communist ideologue compared to the shops stewards movement. The reason why we care so much about the KAPD is the AAUD.

>>6036375
My parents had to wait in lines for bananas and mandarins. When it was Christmas and there were any bananas and mandarins at all.

But it doesn't matter, it's not like some clueless idiots from this thread could make any difference. Let them jerk over grand ideas that were always implemented poorly or something.

>>6037842
k

>>6037842
My parents had to wait in line for water.
60% of my household income goes on rent.
Un, under and underuse unemployment is 60%+.

We lived and still live in capitalism.

Go fuck yourself for your shit: wages existed in the Soviet-style societies, they were notoriously capitalist.

>>6037842
ask yourself what capitalism means. And then ask yourself whether this applies to the place where you lived. If it does then you don't have to blame the darn commies.

>>6037867
>>6037887
~implemented poorly
~implemented poorly after all
~it's all implemented poorly
~it's implemented poorly

>>6037915
it wasn' implemented poorly
it wasn't implemented at all
communism is not something that is implementable by policies, jesus

>>6037929
Or at all, really.

Why are leftist so fucking stupid

>>6037950
they live in classrooms

>>6037950
They repeat what their Sociology teachers tell them and think it makes them look intellectual.

>>6032207
>http://strawpoll.me/3454737
whom are you, bydlo wannabe, trying to troll?

same thing done right:
http://strawpoll.me/3464502
http://strawpoll.me/3464502
http://strawpoll.me/3464502

It's pretty hilarious to read the angry liberals between the somewhat intelligent discussion.
>communists are idiots
>yeah I know
>good we're so smart
Brilliant arguments people, your choice to ignore the countless lives lost to capitalist extortion of the working class and the third world historically and today has convinced me to immediately stay within the confines of a rigged system and vote centre so that nothing will ever change... ever.


>>6038274
>dat pop culture
90% of the modern "left", although I honestly think most of tumblr leftists are actually liberals with feminist or green politics. That is, the belief that if give awards based on cost efficiency they'll choose the most ethical solution aka naive comfort.

>>6037950

it's a religion.

Any good biographies on Zhou Enlai?

meet the new boss

>>6038493
I don't know about biographies, but if you know how to read inner party conflict in the 1950s and 1960s across the Soviet systems, Zhou's collection "The Little Yellow Book" is highly instructive. Zhou is a crypto reformist.

Quick /marx/! What is your best argument against Fascism?

>>6038682
my argument is to make a deal with them to split up eastern europe

>>6038682
Society isn't determined by argument but by the strength of class forces. The best "argument" against fascism is armed trade unionists.

>>6038682
It's the worst of both worlds, combing the exploitation of capitalism with the authoritarianism of the bolsheviks, while completely disregarding the individual's needs and rights.
Also, it mobilizes all of society for a fimal suicide attack on the world, killing millions.

>>6038682
>bonapartism
bourgeois answer to working class politics.

>>6036544
he was a Marxist-Leninist not an orthodox Marxist.

>>6037559
>>6037565

>>6038792
Not much Lenin survives into Stalin. And none of that was the little of Lenin that deserved to survive.

>>6030091
human nature?
see early human tribes.
tribalism is basically anarcho collectivism.

>>6038805
>>6038792
You guys are crazy and your namebadges are inane. Here is the proper Marxism thread:
>>6038304

>>6035532
Agriculture is already a finished business. When overproduction happens farmers would just destroy their crops to keep controlling the prices, or sell it.

But extending the agriculture is totally dumb. There should be a state promotion for farmers to switch jobs and be urban proles, by urbanizing the countrysides. This is the conventional development. Tree huggers, of course, don't like it.

>>6032644
>Do you guys know how many socialists are marxists?

It's hard to say because there are varying degree of marxism. If they're intellectuals of any type they probably see value in at least a few aspects of Marxist methodology, but I think only a minority stands with Marx on the most essential tenets.

In the third world marxist-leninists are quite common, but they usually skip Marx and just jump straight to the same conclusion Lenin arrived regarding Russia.

>Do you guys believe its kind of essential to be/have knowledge of marx to be a socialist?

It depends of where you draw the line of Socialism. I doubt the average Socialist International cuck knows much about Marx, but you'd feel completely left out in hard-left circles.

nice thread.
Syriza soon in Europe.
Syriza was made by the merge of many leftist parties.

>Active Citizens (Ενεργοί Πολίτες): democratic socialism, patriotism
>Anticapitalist Political Group (ΑΠΟ): communism, trotskyism
>Citizens' Association of Riga (Velestinli): patriotism, internationalism, democracy, ecology, social justice
>Communist Organization of Greece (KOE): maoism, communism
>Communist Platform of Syriza: Greek section of the International Marxist Tendency, communism, trotskyism
>Democratic Social Movement (DIKKI): left-wing nationalism, socialism, euroscepticism
>Ecosocialists of Greece: eco-socialism, Green politics
>Internationalist Workers' Left (DEA): revolutionary socialism, communism, trotskyism
>Movement for the United in Action Left (KEDA): communism
>New Fighter: democratic socialism, social democracy
>Radical Left Group Roza: luxemburgism
>Radicals (Ριζοσπάστες): democratic socialism, patriotism
>Red (Κόkkινο): communism, trotskyism
>Renewing Communist Ecological Left (AKOA): democratic socialism, eurocommunism, green politics
>Synaspismós (SYN): democratic socialism, eco-socialism, eurocommunism, environmentalism, feminism
>Union of the Democratic Centre (EDIK): radicalism, social liberalism
>Unitary Movement: democratic socialism, social democracy
And a number of independent leftist activists

>>6035120
>as I'm a Marxist
What's it like basing your entire philosophy off an outdated theory of value?

... is it like being retarded? I bet it's like being retarded

>>6038274
>You-want-to-fuck-your-mother-school

ok, your poll is definitely better than my poll

Why exactly do Marxists want a government with a central bank and all before transitioning to actual communism, and when is that transition supposed to happen? Did Marx not foresee that people are very prone to corruption, and that the centralization of power seen in central banks are likely to work against their ultimate goals? How would they prevent the wrong persons from attaining power?

>>6039870
GOOD LUCK ALEXIS

Slavoj Žižek: The Urgent Necessity of a Syriza Victory in Greece

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17561/zizek_greece_syriza
ayy

>2015
>Marxists still exist
lol

>>6040222
nice trips
read the state and revolution by lenin
https://www.marxists.org/ebooks/lenin/state-and-revolution.pdf

tl;dr:
After the global revolution, the dictatiorship of the proletariat is not needed anymore and people can now live in a world without states.

>>6040490
>2015
>capitalists still exist after USA bankrupted so many times and just printed money and act like nothing happened

>>6040490
You should travel out of usa someday

>>6040503
while authority remains there wont be a equalitarian society.
Sindicalism will emancipate the proletariat, not any hierarchical structure

>>6040513
>>6040592
I'm not even American you cucks

>>6040513
I know. What is the Federal Reserve going to do next? The next bust is just around the corner!

It's like watching a sitcom and whenever the retarded child does anything dumb the studio audience just goes 'awwww'. That's the Federal Reserve.

>>6040735
what is this particular brand of idiocy doing in a marx thread

>>6040768
Marx was an economist, no?

>>6040775
make an Austrian thread if you want to talk about Rothbard's totally bizarre, discredited theories of the business cycle. like the ones so flimsy and reactionary Milton Friedman said the opposite of them was true

>>6040785
The Economist has done reports on the increasing busts and booms. The economy is just getting more volatile. This isn't opinion, it's fact bucko.

>>6040707
>cucks
wew lad that showed me.
How can I be a cuck if I'm a kiseless virgin?

>>6033939
Naxals are getting trashed, losing since '07, and the revolution in Nepal has seen absolutely no socialist policy implemented

also, y'know, they're murderous tankie freaks

what do you think of the soviet union?

>>6034318
Anarcho-syndicalists really have the answer to this question. Up the IWW!

>>6034527
>>6034523
go back

>>6040222
>Why exactly do Marxists want a government with a central bank and all before transitioning to actual communism

Marxists don't. Bolsheviks do. The general Bolshevik programme is not for a lower stage of communism and then a higher stage of communism, but for a radical social democracy where a vanguard party controls capitalism. Thus a "central bank" as an immediate revolutionary program.

>Did Marx not foresee
1) Marx didn't do much hypothetical projection
2) Stop reading Manifesto. Marx rejected the programme contained in Manifesto after the Commune
3) Marx generally had a fantasy about totalisation, and therefore centralisation, in the dialectical transformation of social relations.
4) Lower communism doesn't admit persons to power, we know this from the actual form of workers councils in workplaces in history, and their immediate use of recallable mandated rotating delegates.

>>6041712
marx was just a human. A smart human.
Somewhere I read that he thought that usa and uk would be eventually communist states against the czarist russia.

>>6042498
>somewhere I read
Great citation, useful contribution.

Generally Marx's method was to look at the "most advanced" sections of capitalist economies to try to look at what drove the underlying and fundamental relationships of capitalist society. This method has obvious flaws.

>Marx was just …a smart human.

This is no reason to privilege Manifesto over the actual program of revolutionary proletarians; nor to follow Lukacs' shameful reading of the totality in historical materialism.

>>6040657
'good luck Alexis'

>>6040657
KKE

>>6037750
>Tsipras isn't really a communist
How so?

>>6042662
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102300873#..

>>6042679
I don't understand halfway socialists. If the state if fully socialist and owns the productive forces then growth is generated through state investment. If the state if fully capitalist, they (capitalists) own the productive forces and growth is generated through private investment. But if you have a communist government and a private productive sector who is going to make the country grow? The public sector can't invest and the private sector won't.

>>6039888
>outdated theory of value?

Says the economists who refuse to ever debunk Marx's theory of value and just claim that STV works based on absurd incorrect assumptions that ignore sociology.

>>6029322
*tips discredited theory of history*

Marxism is silly stuff for silly boys.

why can't you idiots adopt a master race centrist libertarian position. Ever heard of the horseshoe theory? Ever read Animal Farm? I don't like how democracy has been set up by the western powers nor do I have any tolerance for the failed practicalities of the communist scum.

>>6044083

>animal farm
>anti-communist

Kek

>>6044083
>animal farm
Animal farm is pro-communist as hell, dude.
It's trying to show that bureaucracy is bad for a socialist society.
Orwell was a critic of Stalin, not the whole communism, he was pretty trotskyist-like as well.

>Old Major= Marx/Lenin like figure
>Napoleon= Stalin like figure
>Snowball= Leon Trotsky
>Mr Jones= Czar
>Mr Frederick= Hitler

>>6042652
KEK

>Communism will never be as based again as it was during the NEP years

>>6042498
Either your historical knowledge is pretty limited or you're a tankie.
the USA and the UK had (contrary to popular belief) a very strong and big working class movement.

>>6044083
>horseshoe
>animal farm

10/10 so effective, yet so simply formulated. You sir are a master ruseman

>>6044233
Wasn't the NEP just a compromise with capitalism because Lenin had fucked up so bad he had to do something in hurry to prevent the people from killing him?

>>6044271
yes, he seems to have mixed up some things

>>6044208
>This is what trots actually believe

>>6044083
I like animal farm but i've noticed there's a big correlation between bringing up animal farm/orwell in discussions and being a huge retard.

Given the gaps in marxist theory its hard to imagine how else real existing socialism could of turned out.

Certain liberals had the wisdom to imagine that there should be limits on even a government they elected lest it turns against the people it is supposed to represent. Marxists lacked such wisdom. Whenever a party claiming to represent the working class came to power through revolution they used the asymmetrical relationship between the ruler and the ruled, the vague concept of “dictatorship of the proletariat” which was twisted so whatever the party wanted was what the working class wanted, the lack of any concept of tolerance or limits on the government to kill left wing competition, ban elections (or rig them in Tito's case), and mass suppression.

Marxists sometimes bemoan how “identity politics” split the working class apart but such movements had problems with racism, sexism, and things like white collar workers opinions being thought as more valuable than blue collar before that ever came along. Giving women a education was a step in the right direction but they failed to do things like seek out and eliminate unconscious/conscious biases to create a more egalitarian society so Yugoslavia fell to ethic conflicts, post communist nations remain so conservative, and people still sacrifice pig's blood to Mao statues.

People criticize Stalin for “state capitalism” but there was never any plan to begin with, just vague suggestions with little to no thought about how to implement them. Dirigisme did a better job with state planning. Socialists recreated some of the same conditions and management they had fought against earlier doing a excellent job of showing that “ownership” does not equal control (though kings and sultans had similar problems with controlling the resources they supposedly owned). The workers in “workers state” never gained power equal to the old ruling classes because they lacked a key element; power independent from the state.

>>6039888
>implying orthodox marxism depends on Marx's claim about LTV
>implying LTV is outdated

gtfo reified bourgeois scum

>>6040222
For Marx, the state is a weapon of class warfare (perhaps the most powerful weapon). For the working class to win the class warfare, they need the state. That's all, that's why. This idea of corruption is better explained by false conciousness

To overcome our enemies we must have our own socialist militarism. We must carry along with us 290 million out of the 320 million of the USA's population. As for the rest, we have nothing to say to them. They must be annihilated.

>>6044809
>>implying LTV is outdated
It's not outdated. Outdated would mean that it was once accurate but isn't anymore. LTV never made sense. It's really quite hilarious to read a defense of LTV and at every turn they have to abstract from actual production in order to shoehorn in what is actually demand.

>>6044813
And now that leftists have "the state" they're a bunch of hysterical, bizarro-world soccer moms. Awesome

Inb4
>No brand of leftism is actually leftism silly ;^)

I sincerely hope you all die

>>6044826
>have to abstract from actual production

What you mean by abstract from actual production is going beyond the immediacy of capitalist relations, which is only to say penetrate the reified consciousness of capitalism and achieve an understanding of the objective truth of capitalism, which is that commodity relations, the relations of thing, mask the truly social relations of men. Read Lukacs.

>>6040657
good luck Alexis

>>6044843
>What you mean by abstract from actual production is going beyond the immediacy of capitalist relations, which is only to say penetrate the reified consciousness of capitalism and achieve an understanding of the objective truth of capitalism, which is that commodity relations, the relations of thing, mask the truly social relations of men. Read Lukacs.
hahahahaha. Do you really believe what you just wrote makes sense? Let me guess, you don't work a real job, do you?

>>6040503
>After the global revolution, the dictatiorship of the proletariat is not needed anymore and people can now live in a world without states.
>Lenin
>not a lie to get the proletariat to lift a tyrant into power
>Lenin not a thug and a liar
>no way

>>6044863
do you know how plebian you sound rn? gtfo reactionary fuck

>>6044826
You do realize that LTV was mainstream economics in marx's time right? Both LTV and neoclassical microeconomics are unfalsifiable and almost metaphysical constructions anyway so laughing at the other side doesn't make much sense.

>at every turn they have to abstract from actual production
It's funny because this is the critique that marxism does of utilitarianism. Except they are right since utilitarianism explains prices in a model literally without production. I don't know in what sense do you think marxists abstract from production though.

>>6044863
>making fun of someone on /lit/ for reading
what are you even doing on this board

>>6044839
>And now that leftists have "the state" they're a bunch of hysterical, bizarro-world soccer moms. Awesome
The problem here is that idiots like you believe liberals are "left". Let me guess, you're American and believe Marxists who actually give a shit would support Obama?

Marxists (in countries with an history of active, organized communism) has little love for the spoonfeeding dream of tumblr or the neo-liberal tendencies in postmodernism.

>>6044772
>The workers in “workers state” never gained power equal to the old ruling classes because they lacked a key element; power independent from the state.

They had that power. It was ruthlessly crushed by bolshevik parties. The first institution the bolsheviks destroy in coming to power are workers councils.

>>6040657
GOOD LUCK ALEXIS

FUCK THE GLOBALISTS AND FUCK THE EU

>>6040657
good luck Alexis

Why does Slavoj support Syriza?

Aren't they an example of what he talks about here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azKNngXBICs

Liberals wanting a revolution without the revolution, I mean they want an end to austerity and corruption a regaining of sovereignty but without a rejection of the EU or dismantling the current Greek state.

>>6046389
cocaine man

>>6046389
>>6046397
honestly this isn't the first time he's contradicting himself

>>6046389
They were against the EU until very recently, the recent change of rhetoric is just a smokescreen to win some voters. They know full well that their demands will result in leaving the EU.

>>6046389
>Syriza
I don't see why so many on the left are hopeful about them winning. Besides some vague anti austerity plan what are they going to bring to the table?

>>6046418
they are shit, only liberal leftists could defend them

>>6046418
They are different, they have ideas and ideals. They challenge EU's policies. They actually seem to care about people's lives instead of Angela's cock.

Most of all they bring a sense of hope.

Too bad my country is still ruled by literal fucking cucks.

>>6046418
They're going to get Greece out of the EU, and that's the only possible way real recovery can begin.

>>6046534
Where a you from?

>>6046542
No there not, they want to stay in the EU and nato.

Read this and get behind the KKE

http://inter.kke.gr/en/articles/SYRIZA-the-left-reserve-force-of-capitalism/

what would be the advantage of KKE and the old
'real' communists over SYRIZA?

>>6046418
The Left has lacked any real victory for some years now, that is what is left to most socialists in Europe. I wouldn't mind if they won and joined with the KKE, otherwise it's not going to go well, unfortunately. They are already backing down in a number of things i didn't want to see them back down

>>6046543
>literal fucking cucks

It must be Sweden or Canada.

>>6046543
Greece_2, aka Portugal

>>6046542
That was when they wanted to get the votes of the Radical Left, now they want to get the votes of the center and are fine with changing what characterised them

>>6046560
Member of the PCP, camarada?

>>6046563
>radical left

This terminology triggers me.

>>6046570
Maybe later in life, most probably not. I still have much to learn, and I'm not one to get rigidly behind a party.

>>6046560
Could be worse, in the UK all we have is this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlTggc0uBA8

>>6046598
yeah maggie fucked your leftist scene massively up

>>6046598

>>6046591
Was trying to use the terminology being used commonly in the media. Fuck me if Syriza was ever on the Far-Left

>>6046608
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufl7pdiKUSY

>ITS HAPPENING

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/58082

CELEEEEBRATE GOOD SYRIZA C'MON, next it's Podemos-mos!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

>>6046598
For some reason the left in Anglo countries just can't get their shit together.

>>6046717
This is a Marxism thread, take your liberalism somewhere else.

>>6046549
The problem is that the KKE are rusted on Stalinists who just refuse to adapt to the 21st century.

The KKE should have joined Syriza along with everyone else, that way they could still have some sort of influence.

We must have faith that internal struggle within Syriza will stop it's betrayal of the working class, I mean ffs, much of the party are Maoists, Luxembourgists and Trotskyists.

>>6046608
>Vomit pics
Eeew

>>6046717
Hawt.
>Looming SYRIZA wins alarms European elite
>o<
Yesyesyesyes

>>6046778
you sure seem like a petit-burgeois pseudo-leftist

>>6046735
This is a leftist party that makes the bankers quake, take your Stalinism somewhere else.
:)

>>6046811
I have always been in the "prole" class. My politics have steadily shifted left since my Christian-conservative upbringing. I don't know how an anarchist could be considered a "pseudo-leftist" though.

Marx is one of those philosophers that you just want to give a hug. Id probably hug nietzsche and wittgenstein too

>>6046838
>I don't know how an anarchist could be considered a "pseudo-leftist"

>>6046860
How can anarchism be revisionism when it predates Marxism?

>>6046860
>A pseudo-leftist is someone who will not conform to my will, comrade.

No, I'm certainly not an ancap either.
Feck off

>>6046860
If anything Stalin is the pseudo-leftist, since he included a healthy measure of hierarchy in his system.

Anarchists hate order and hierarchy and are definitely progressives.

>>6046598
Wouldn't even say he's politically centre left, the only party that's somewhat left wing and has a chance to gain any seats in the general election is the greens.

>>6046745
and the one single trot disagreed with himself and so started a splinter group...

on the eve of syriza possibly winning, I just can't figure them out.

their coalition members dip into the far and ultra left, yet the party seems sort of selling out and not especially anti-capitalist at all, they seem more like they will bolster capitalism and make it nicer and fairer with slight min. wage increases.

is the KKE really so unpalatable in greece that these true anti-capitalist parties with tons of red star and hammer and sickle symbolism didn't want to ally with them for this election and take a real shot at capitalism when they had the chance?

daily reminder that generals are cancer and will soon be a bannable offense

enjoy this circlejerking chatroom bullshit while you can

>>6047353
daily reminder that the people who make them don't care and won't stop and there is nothing you can do about it.

>>6047375

you'll care when the banhammer starts coming down

fucking marxist scum

>>6046598
lel

>>6047375
>Daily reminder I'm an annoying faggot who has no friends outside of off topic shitposting

Too bad. Maybe kill yourself, because no one cares.

>milios saying that "his leanings are in the French Marxist tradition"
>zizek supporting syriza
>postmoderns in charge of a country
this is going to fail horribly

>>6047384
but it dont

>>6047472
Greece already failed m8.

>>6046559
>It must be Sweden or Canada.
Wait. Is this you guessing where I'm from?

>>6048139
So they have nothing to lose.
Stay working class lapdogs to the EU or go full commie and and get ostracized like Cuba or Venezuela

If they get their leftist govt. I think they'd be in a better position than the Ukraine.

To be honest he had great hair for a guy with a receding hairline.

>>6048157
>full commie…like Cuba or Venezuela

ha ha oh wow you're serious.

>>6044893
>I don't know in what sense do you think marxists abstract from production though
When they say thing like 'the value of a chair is determined by the labour that goes into the chair, but not the actual labour that goes into this chair, but the abstract social labour that goes into making a chair in general.

>>6048647
the production of chairs is not an individual, but a social phenomena.

>>6046778
>>6046608
>>6046559
>>6048157
So is this guy aware we can clearly see him samefagging or is it too different namefags with extremely similar symbols?

>>6049203
This poster >>6048157 has been impersonating me for some time now.

>>6048647
>value is determined by the social conditions of production therefore they are abstracting from production
nice job anon...

>>6049203
Mine are
>>6046778
>>6046838
>>6046888
>>6048157
I am an anarchist and wouldn't post anime vomit pics. The other ones game is to annoy me and you all.
He seems to think I'm from Sweden or Canada

>>6049972
Dear imposter, you're doing an excellent job of annoying everyone on this board without any help from me.