/lit/ - Literature

>Bump

>>6019105
yes

>When he is speaking about change, is Marx talking about "returning to old ways, before capitalism", or about something new completely

Kek please read at least a little bit of Marx before begging for help on the internet on an infamous imageboard for Japanese cartoons

If you can attempt to subtly slip in the paper how Marx secretly wished he could perform fellatio on Max Stirner I think you'd have a hit

Meh, that 11th thesis is way overrated. There is hardly any philosopher that didn't want to change the world e.g. Plato trying to teach the Tyrant Dionysus II of Syracuse to be a philosopher-king.
It's almost the equivalent of saying "up until now every philosopher was only wrong, but the point is to be right".

>>6019438
>"Philosophers have hitherto only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it."
Marx is the Little Richard of philosophy, he just can't resist being wonderfully ostentatious. I know this line isn't strictly true, but it's still a lovely turn of phrase.

That said, Marx's understanding of class struggle is much more useful and has stood the test of time better than any of his theories about how to achieve utopia. Stranger, his ideas about the inevitability of socialism imply that his work as a philosopher is unnecessary; if the point of his work is to change the world, but the changes he seeks are inevitable, what is he doing but merely "describing"?

forget the 11th thesis, i have no idea what the 1st thesis even means

Communism sounds like it works in theory but it doesn't work in practice. any 8 year old can tell you that.

>>6019674
Do you just spam every marxist thread with this phrase in order to get someone to take the bait? If you have an opinion on the matter, you can just state it clearly, you know

OP here, if any help on my topic can be provided, I would appreciate it. Thanks

>>6019912
Sure Rampart

>what read
You're probably not interested in plowing through Marxist texts when you just need a primer. Wikipedia is pretty shit but will do for broad definitions. Get a feel for the communist manifesto. Obviously read the 11th thesis.

>relationship betweeen 11th thesis and historical materialism
Marx's belief that philosophy ought to change the world guided his interest. Historical materialism (the idea that history is guided by the pursuit of material things) was useful to Marx because it was through it that he understood how the world works. To explain by analogy, you wouldn't want to operate on somebody (i.e. change them) if you didn't understand how the human body worked.

>Old ways or new ways?
Google Primitive Communism.

>So what to read from Marx, and about Marx on this topic?
read the German Ideology
it is a long winded version of the 11 theses
>Also what is relation between marxs 11 thesis and his historical materialism?
The 11 theses demonstrate that Hegelian Idealism espoused by Feuerbach is just a product of the material conditions of every stage of development, not the other way around.
materialism > idealism
>When he is speaking about change, is Marx talking about "returning to old ways, before capitalism", or about something new completely
something else completely:

Advancing PAST Capitalism to Communism

>>6019438
Think you're missing the point and oversimplifying it.

Philosophy, especially Metaphysics, prided itself on being "eternal" and detached from the material world: not necessarily uninterested in changing it, but saying "we just have to move forward with our ideas and the world will follow us eventually." Marx is proposing a philosophy based on the conditions of the material world that is concerned with actively trying to change those material conditions, something no previous philosophy did. And of course previous philosophy also concerned itself in politics, but again in a relatively detached state: this is simply a result of philosophy being created out of the economic base of all stages of history.

>>6019708
it's a new meme.

>>6019988
I've literally heard it being said since I was in High School. Its just a go to response that people don't understand communism use. Check out any youtube video on communism and I can guarantee you will see it.

>>6019943
>>6019953
Thanks guys!

>>6020016
it's an cliché cum meme.

>>6019674
>>6020016
It's a conclusion institutionally supported in Western Capitalist nations. Rather than vilifying the entire field of Marxist thought as in the Cold War, its been instead attached to anti-intellectual fervor so that the idea of communism can be defused as merely the pipe dream of the over-read.

Makes one wonder why 1984 and Animal Farm are the most widely taught novels in high schools; it's a conclusion one is pushed to through nit-picked texts.

>>6019674
The theory is all about practice. You can't say "it just works well in theory" unless you really don't know what "theory" means.

>>6020016
>literally

This entire time since high school?! Yours must be a rough life.