/lit/ - Literature

airplane on treadmill

>>6002788

It's unethical not to switch the tracks.

Shoot the artist

>>6002788
did feminister ever come back here? i almost miss that lunatic.

>>6002828
>there's only one track

>>6002788
How fast is the trolley going? Can it be derailed? Approximately how many people would get injured and/or die were the train to be derailed?

MULTI-TRACK DRIFTING

>>6002788
"Do nothing" is the only right answer here. It's not your responsibility.

>>6002877
If you were on the tracks and someone had the power to save your life, would be thinking this way and respect the person's decision if he/she were to walk away?

>>6002877
>>6002888

Trips supersedes man. Additionally, you are the only thing tat can prevent this tragedy, just because you were not born wanting this responsibility does not mean that you do not have it. Yeah, it's a shitty situation for your deotological ethics. Put if you don't pull that level, three people will die.

I thought I was on int. What is going on lads ?

>>6002978

Serious Ethics.

>>6002828
I would place Evolakid (back when he was alive) and the troll who post "le degenerated SJW society" threads.

Switch the tracks midway through the juncture. Train will flip and roll, killing everyone.

I'm surpriced no one has suggested committing suicide.

>>6002788
>6002788
let the train stay on b.

go kill the person lying on track A.

no witnesses.

let's kick it up a notch

Stop looking so unhappy

How has there not been a Bane edit?

>>6003910
Give me a minute

how do we know for sure what that lever does?

>>6003910
>>6003923
Okay

>>6002788
this is retarded

obviously you kill 1 person rather than 5

but you weren't the one who set that shit up, so it's mostly not your fault

make the best of it, what's controversial about this picture?

>>6003981
>quantifying

Mein Gott.

>>6004007
What's bad about quantifying?

>>6003975
Enhanced version

>>6002828
Do nothing, then choke the top one to death.

Call the union.

>>6002788
Pull the switch. Lacking any other information, five people dying is certainly worse than one.

>>6002788

I would ask the lone guy and the group who deserves to die. then do the contrary

>>6003981
Kant is disappointed in you

>>6004016
Morality is a matter of essence, not empirical observation.

>>6002820
And what if the 5 persons lying there are all convicted rapists of children?

Its better have 5 persons owe their lives to you than one

so, id switch tracks

It's unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to make this decision. If I was on the track I would expect a sane person to walk away.

>>6004649
He's a killer, why are you asking him?

>>6004021
>>6003975
Can someone make an edit where it says
"How do you crash the plane so there are no survivors"?

>>6004021
this is pretty good

>>6004649
What if the one guy is a child molester?

You can ask hypotheticals all day long on this one.

>>6004682
With the character heads reversed (CIA on one track and his soldiers on the other, Bane pulling lever)

>>6004686
Indeed you can. And that is the point. So why again, should you do anything if a set of endless hypotheticals can be true?

i always was for letting the one guy die but the surgeon/organ analogy made me switch to letting 5 die

>>6002788
Requesting the one with Nietzche.

>>6004717
>surgeon/organ analogy

u wot

>>6003975
Kill Bane, because they'll only expect one of us in the wreckage.

It's just an image; it's not even specified the "train" is moving. You turbonerds have been conditioned to give answers when there are no such questions.

>>6002860

>>6005084
You're a surgeon with five sick patients. Each has a different organ failure that will kill them soon. One day a relatively healthy person comes in to get his appendix removed. Do you kill this man, harvest his organs, and save five lives?

>>6003015
what happened to rei

>>6005067
I wish a nigga would.

>>6005118

analogy doesnt apply

surgeon made a plight to not do harm

>>6002820
If we presume that we don't know what will switching do then yes

>>6002828
No, he never came back. Good thing too, fuck was annoying as hell.

>>6003015
I thought I saw Evolakid posting here a few weeks ago. Or at least someone under the name. He was a faggot too.

>>6005128
He posts on another imageboard about literature. Forget the site name. He's a mod there and is super paranoid about people from /lit/ soiling it.

you're intervening in the violent murder of 6 people, the only thing that matters is how effectively you can intervene

>>6005224
perfection

>>6005224

holy shit 10/10

If you kill the one man, you will have five people who have to live through a traumatic event.
They will become detached from society and will mostly only socialize with each other because they all have surviving the trolly experiment in common.
Assuming an even (5/3 or 3/5) gender ratio, there is a high probability of 1-2 romantic relationships developing in the group.
Unfortunately these relationships ultimately become abusive, and the odd man or women left over will become jealous. Ultimately only suffering will result from this group of survivors.

If you kill the five, the one man will have to suffer being the only survivor all by himself. He will be cut off from the rest of society, but eventually he might find somebody who takes care of him, even if she can't understand his pain.
Even if he doesn't one suffering person less than five suffering people.

The utilitarian choice is to not pull the leaver.

>>6006556
well, it all totally depends on the initial mental stability of the one guy.

>>6005224
/thread

>>6005224
it is your duty to prevent harm

>>6005224
My father actually answered this to me.

Fucking monster.

>>6006556

>what are relatives

Switch the tracks and use my pocket knife to try and free the lone man before the trolly gets him.

If you only partially switch the tracks, would the trolly derail?

>>6006635

cute

youre dead now

>>6006647
It would be extremely painful.

The only correct answer is to not touch the lever. If you do anything, you're a murderer.

>>6006709

is it worse to be a murderer of one person, or to enable the murder of 5?

>>6006634
Relatives will eventually grow to resent how distant their loved ones have become. They won't admit this, even to themselves, because nobody wants to admit to resenting people for surviving a horrible experience. But in the end, it will cause the relationship to become hollow and only result in further suffering.

>>6002788
>le utilitarian trope

>>6006753
>this is how autists see human interactions

Untie single person; Switch track.

Tada.

>>6006709
What do?

>>6006668
For you.

>>6004649
Irrelevant.

>>6006709
>implying murder is wrong

>>6006811
>implying friends and family
fucking normies

>>6005224
>tfw OP replies to his shitty post at least 3 times to congratulate himself

>>6002888
There's no promise that the bystander would save me.

This is such a weak exercise in ethics to me. Would you randomly walk up to a car accident and attempt to resuscitate someone? No, 9 times out of 10 you wouldn't. You'd call 911 because you are not equipped to make those type of decisions and you may end up killing the person.

>>6002788
Wouldn't this line of reasoning make it amoral to, say, shoot a man about to murder another man? What if he was about to kill a child or the president?

Go home and read a book. I don't know why you didn't bring one with you.

>>6009320
Shooting a man who is about to shoot the president is amoral.

>>6005224
But you are responsible for all the people you could have helped, but out of negligence, or greed did not. This makes us all profoundly guilty, but just because it's counter-intuitive doesn't mean it is not true.

>>6002788
Would switching the tracks as it meets the crossroad derail it? If so, I would take that chance and try to save all of them.

>>6009320
he knows hes gonna get shot trying to do it so you could argue it's suicide

>>6009320
It's immoral to murder someone under any circumstance, but it's also immoral to allow someone else to murder another when you have the means to stop it. Most of the time life isn't a fork-in-the-road between good and evil; it's more about choosing the option which causes the least amount of damage, and still having to suffer for the crimes you committed.

>>6009398
I genuinely hadn't considered this. This is the answer.

>>6009405
Sure, kill everyone in the train, that's moral.

>>6009422
Shooting someone to prevent them murdering someone else is not 'murder' though. Murder is inherently immoral, killing is not.

>>6009444

Death is not guaranteed. People have survived derailments from places of elevation. I think it's still worth the chance, and the only possible outcome where no one dies.

>>6009467
Also the only possible outcome where everyone dies, except you.

>>6009478
>everyone dies, except you.
I don't see the problem in this.

>>6009478

I know that, but it's a chance I would take to give equal leverage to each of their lives.

>>6009455
Killing anyone under any circumstance is wrong. People who try to weasel out of this fact will weasel their way into justifying the actions coming from their passions and desires, but strict adherence to the rules of morality are both humanely impossible and unlikely to produce a good outcome each and every time. Just because there are people who will use war as a path to getting what they want, doesn't make fighting back for the safety of others any more noble. I recommend that people should live by a dualistic morality system; one that judges by results, and the other by actions. The first is for using your brain and realizing that sometimes good can only be preserved by an evil act; and the second is to never forget what good and evil actions actually are, so that you don't ruin yourself by living an unnatural, asocial life.

>>6009307
Yes, but in that situation, you do have the ability to help. You don't need to be an expert to pull a lever. Additionally if an off-duty Paramedic was at the site of your crash, was near enough to help, and had medical supplies and training to help stop your bleeding, but instead just stood there and watch you bleed to death, he would held responsible if you bled out.

>>6009632
>good can only be preserved by an evil act
Not that anon, but the dissonance in this is part of what made me become a utilitarian. If this is true, then you have two options - either you "should" commit an evil act, or else you should let evil occur. In either case, you are admitting that evil is sometimes preferable to non-evil, which seems to me to be equivalent to the destruction of your moral system - what is "evil," if not what should not be done?

>>6009307
The situations are totally different. Here there's no way that you'd accidentally kill six people by trying to save five of them. Responsibility is a notion that allows us to preserve order and assign blame, but as an actual ethical standard, I dislike it. You are told "Do x, and five people die, or do y, and only one dies." If you do x, whether it was your "responsibility" or not does not change the fact that you willingly let four people die.

>>6009632
>Killing anyone under any circumstance is wrong

I would like to see you justify this. If you say killing is always wrong you are saying self defence is wrong. And that is fucking despicable. Believe it or not but accepting the morality of self defence or killing to protect others does not lead to an 'unnatural, asocial life'.

Well /lit/?

>>6009871

Is this the one where the five guys on track Z1 are all nihilists?

Nobody in my phil 201 class could get the answer to this one.

>>6010729
I can see the tracks, y'know.

>>6010729

Who's morally culpable if we both pull the lever and end up killing the five?

>>6009398

>non-optional social obligations

lel no. You didn't cause the train to run those people over, so you are innocent. The second you pull the lever, yo acting as judge and jury on another human life and you become a murder. therefore acting immorally.

>>6010750

Obviously you are. The guy tried to sacrifice himself and you prevented him, thus causing the death of five.

You're objectively the murderer in this one.

well /lip/?

>>6010778
Take a step and pull from the other side. The ropes are on the guys so they can't escape; you have no similar bonds.

>>6010778
Pull it then move off the track.

Pick the choice which you think will make you happier.

>>6010778
>commit sensei
>five innocent people get to live
>I get to die
See, this is why deontological ethics suck; they prevent people from making mutually beneficial deals.

>>6010525
Self-defense is the inevitable result of not being prepared for the prevention of a danger, or not disarming the situation peacefully. It is a immoral act.

OK listen up, route 1 is just a Cat. If you pick route 2 you become a multi-billionaire no questions asked and the overlords will look the other way regarding the deaths.

Here is where it gets interesting, this whole time a supreme Marxist mastermind is in the trolly and the third route takes him to the path to eliminate the corrupt system which is Capitalism and replace it with one that will benefit all mankind. However many hundreds must die and your name will go down in history as the man who murdered them all.

>>6010892
track 3, for the proletariat!!

>>6010892

At first blush I want to say track 2, but I'm intrigued by the cat option and what it means.

>>6010892
Anyone who does not choose Track Number Two is legiterally retarded

>>6010830
And now you are blaming the victim for circumstances beyond their control, well done.

If you think every attack is preventable and every attacker can be reasoned with you are delusional. No level of precaution is foolproof, to claim otherwise is objectively false.

Self defence is never immoral, defending violent criminals or implying people should allow themselves to be assaulted or killed like you are doing is immoral.

>>6010892
>to eliminate the corrupt system which is Capitalism and replace it with one that will benefit all mankind
Sounds like a dirty trick. I choose billionaires.

>>6010778

>quit my job as a lever guy before the train hits the tracks
>not responsible for the 5 deaths

>the trolley problem is a meme

Welcome to trolleyquest.

You've been on the floating island for god knows how long, In front of you is a lever, which does god knows what.

>>6011326
Tossed salad and scrambled eggs

>>6011369
x lever

>>6011376

You pull your lunch out of your pocket and immediately discard it. You're feeling pretty hungry now.

>>6011388
eat lever
pretend its a pickle

>>6011376
lmao

>>6011395

You grab the lever with intent to eat, trying to imagine sweet dill flavors.

The lever snaps off however. The texture feels ... off.

Walk away

>>6011422
Pick up trolley

>>6011458

You are too slow to make the effort! An angry utilitarian jumps from a wormhole! Armed with his scalpel and his recently harvested organs, he intends to teach you his meaning of greatest happiness the hard way!

He seems to be greatly offended by your breaking of the lever.

>>6011465
feed self to the utility monster, he'll enjoy it and I want to die anyway, it's win-win

>>6006598
yeah, what if he gets survivor guilt and kills himself anyway

I think the natural response is to pull the lever, even if its not the logical choice. In reality at least I think most people would.

>>6011468

The utility monster gladly obliges you, stabbing you and spraying your innards all about the place. It seems that you have shown ... weakness of will. And of the spleen.

Guys,, Im from /toy/ I just glanced this from the front page and holy shit..

guys, this thread is amazing. truely amazing.


Id just pick up the damn train. (all my trains are made of plastic)

>>6002978
it's called trolley theory
it's a thought experiment related to utilitarian ethics

Drift that shit, nigga.

>>6011497
Pick up trolley.

>>6011497

After finishing the destruction of your remains, he begins to feed, experiencing transcendent and universally unparalleled joy.

He proceeds to soil his trousers. Also you're dead.

BAD END.

>>6011521
Pick up shoes.

>>6006647
trolly is presumably full of people as per but will eventually come to safe stop on either track

>>6011497
Reincarnate as ghost without the machine.

>>6011524

Pretty sure we lost m8

>>6011521
Cast magic missile on utilitarian

>>6011521
>I filled myself with flowers beforehand
>The utilitarian is now trapped in my lotus eater machine

>>6002877
Libertarian scum detected

>>6010917
>americans

I would keep flipping it and let fate decide.

You reincarnate.

Things are pretty comfy and you feel pretty swell!

>>6011549
jesus christ that image. libertarians are idiots but how could that possibly be why you think so

>>6011564
Become priest and convert heathens on /lit/ from a computer made from coconut

>>6011570

You decide to become a religious someday. You think about your family: They must be mission you at home.

Where are you anyway? You take a look around. It's a beautiful day, if a little bit bright.

>>6010830
Okay, let's make the trolley problem but with an aggressive agent instead of a train.

You are bound and tied. Two people are tied up with you. Helen Keller knows exactly where you are and is rushing at you with a knife. Since she's Helen Keller, you can't dissuade her by communication. The only movement your bonds allow you - and only you, because the other two can't move at all - is to press a button that will instantaneously kill her by lethal injection. Is pressing the button immoral? Does your answer change if it will knock her out with only a seventy percent chance to kill her?

>>6011578

You can even see some birds! You mentally remember that you want to go birdwatching someday. That could be fun.

>>6011577

kek
underated bread

>>6011578
Doubt external reality, decide you can't say where you are or if there is a where at all.

>>6011583
/r/ing a diagram of this

>>6011578
Look at map

>>6011590
>>6011591

You consider how strange it is that you've had a religious epiphany, discovered you had a family, and, as you now realize, are tied down.

Hey! Everything feels all shakey! What a strange coincidence! It's almost like a massage chair, except with ropes!

>>6005067
here you are my white friend

>>6011598
Question my existence.

>>6011601
Is that his dick?

>>6011611

You almost succeed! Unfortunately, two seconds before experiencing ontological enlightenment, everything hurts! And people seem to be all shaken up!

What's happening???

>>6011621
Examine self.

>>6011513
dude do you know how to add colour? Go to Image and Mode and change it off greyscale

>>6011625

The trolley passes. You lean forward to take a look at yourself. Things don't look too good. Perhaps you'll become a priest another day. Maybe a nap would be in order.

>>6011637
can we try to figure out which side of the tracks we were on so we can consider the moral ramifications of our mutilation and of the switcher's decision

>>6011637
I can't believe I didn't realize we were on the tracks. I'm so dumb.

>>6011654

You tilt your head left, to see if you've made a mess.

Things are blurry, and you're oh so tired, but you think you see something to your left. But you are pretty messy, who knows for sure?

>>6011680
hmmmm...use rubber chicken with a pulley in the middle on tracks

Wu-Tang aint nuttin to fuck wit, protect ya neck

>>6011680

Rubber chickens? Happy reincarnation man doesn't have one. He'd like one. Maybe he could give it to his kids later. They'd like it a lot, though he'd have to keep it from John; he'd surely beat Maggie with it if he was left alone.

It's almost time to rest. Even happy reincarnation man knows that things don't look so good for him.

But a sudden sound!

Happy reincarnation man turns.

A bird. A beautiful bird! It must have been part of the flock he saw before. "Cross one off the bucket list!", he thinks. He was birdwatching. And not through binoculars: it was in person., up close!

Rarely can a man live out his dreams, yet happy reincarnation man saw one through in a single day.

>>6011735
Simulate the trolley problem in thought.

>>6011735

Happy reincarnation man thought about his plight. The thought was grim.

It didn't seem likely he'd be attending seminary today. It didn't seem likely soon. In fact. happy reincarnation man would, he realized. probably never attend seminary. At very least, he knew most seminarians he knew were never spread out across a barren field, with only a bird for comfort. Why was he like this?

Obviously, there were the screams. You can't miss screams, but happy reincarnation man knew screams for attention were to be ignored. "Don't let them get to you and they'll speak like adults," he'd often remind his wife. Screams are too close, too far, too loud. His ears still rung a little. Maybe they were in a similar situation to him. He hoped not. Feeling this bad in a group would be more tolerable, but he didn't have the heart to wish it on somebody else. It was pretty achey.

"Such a nice bird", he said to himself as his sight begins to glaze.

Happy reincarnation man hears a final scream as he prepares for his nap, so loud it breaks through his internal filter for a moment. Something about drifting.

"How childish," he whispers.

Happy Reincarnation man slept soundly.

>>6011601

>>6011752
>>6011782
>>6011654

> Something about drifting
> Drifting
> MULTITRACK DRIFTING

He's dead, Jim.

>>6010892
Track fucking three of course
I'll be the new Lenin

>>6010892
It's obvious. I pick the cat.

>>6012038
How can you pick the cat? It's an innocent cat

>>6012044
Nice try, cat.

>>6010892
3, for the greater good.

>>6012047

>>6004624

>>6012057
Trying to seduce me with those eyes?

>>6012065
Cmon man, don't you want the money???

>>6005224
>implying it isn't your duty to prevent harm
>taking an active role wills harm directly from the act
>taking a passive role does not add any more active harm
You let it hit 5.

>>6012084
>money
>not communist revolution
Kill yourself

>>6012125
Cats are not communist. Soviet cat food sucks

>>6011782

Trolley threads are not supposed to play out like this.

Archive pls

>>6002856
>trolley

>>6012602
for when this situation happens in real life, we will need this thread for reference.

>>6012602

Every thread is archived

fuuka.warosu.org/lit

>>6010915
Why do people capitalize like this?

>>6012690
Cause No Rules Baby.

>tfw Bungie answers all my philosophical questions

>>6012726
>LE EPIC MEME CULTURE REFERENCE DUDE

>>6012760
thnx i like ur meme 2

>>6003723
holy shit. my sides are orbiting pluto

>>6011782

epic, you should make more roleplay in lit

There is absolutely nothing but shitposting in these threads.

Trolley problem threads are the worst.

>>6014384
The initial one was one of my favorite moments on /lit/, but they get boring after a while. Still better than the DFW back-and-forth, spooks, anti-natalism, Evola, etc.

The trolley is heading in the other direction.

>>6011589
Fuck off m8