/lit/ - Literature

can you translate all of this please, i don't speak french

Read dat english will be out Friday, I cannot - maybe someone else can halp

>>5999591
I'll give it a shot, if that's all right.

By all means

>>5999564
Are there any good essays criticizing free speech? What I can see is that Charlie Hebdo is negligent towards their potential damages and chose to ignore threats that clearly put people in danger in favor of publishing what is no less clever than the last few years of South Park.

>>5999576
> he doesnt speak French
> laughinggirls.jpg

They don't use free speech to argue, they use fear and murder

freedom of speech

this is freedom of fear

>>5999564
It's a wonder they haven't been closed for bad taste. Their caricatures are disgusting cheap shock factor.

Is it a great magazine - not to me. Do I believe they as humans have the right to publish?

Yes I do. Have a good one anons

The prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) will be avenged for this slight!

bring it to /pol/ boys. We've already lost interest here

>>5999659


In the free west we don't forbid things because we find them tasteless, Ahmed.

>>5999671
Good work anon. I sincerely hope you're not brutally murdered by stupid terrorists for sharing this.

Thanks for uploading btw OP. Impossible to get a copy myself, only 500 available in my country.

>>5999683

>I, the president of /lit/, have spoken.

>>5999614

>When someone threatens you with violence, you have to change your behaviour. To do otherwise is negligient of your own safety. Ofcourse this rule does not apply when you do something clever.

Seriously?

Haha wow! This magazine sure is witty and insightful.

These guys really put a lot of effort into their work!

>>5999679
/lit/ needs more jihadis around, really. They'd liven the place up.

>>5999711
Give them a break, they are short staffed at the moment.

>>5999710
Yeah seriously you shit. Freedom of thought> freedom of speech.

>>5999693
But we do. If someone made caricatures of homosexuals as disgusting as this he would be lynched.

>>5999693
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4351672/French-cartoonist-Sine-on-trial-on-charges-of-anti-Semitism-over-Sarkozy-jibe.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12664346

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/celebritynews/frankie-boyles-i-wish-the-queen-was-dead-joke-is-slashed-from-comic-relief-show-by-bbc-bosses-8524642.html

>>5999564
Daily reminder that charlie hebdo and similar "muh western values" islamophobes are the tools of western neo-colonialism

>>5999735

>>5999735
keked/10

>>5999781
I'm not an extremist apologist but I would like to read more about this if you have the sources. I see this prolonging the bullshit synthetic "war on terror" just like the frenchies dragged us into Vietnam

>>5999781
If they don't like being bombed by Israel, they should crack down on Hamas themselves.
Oh wait, they would never do that because they fully support Hamas's objectives.
This is coming from someone who doesn't like Israel either.

They've got bigger balls than anyone on /lit/, for sure.

>>5999570
>the Muslims, Catholics and Jews are conspiring to control the world!
Must be nice being this dumb...

>>5999789
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/12/new-atheism-old-empire/

http://www.c-span.org/video/?312123-1/book-discussion-richard-seymour

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/04/20134210413618256.html

>>5999827
>Islamic fundamentalism — which no one, incidentally, believes to be a fiction — is insidious not because of its adherence to some ossified medieval tradition, but rather because of its eager and effective embrace of modernist dynamism.
Annnddd dropped.

>>5999564
I'll just leave this here.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01/10/rex-murphy-we-are-not-charlie-hebdo/

>>5999887
>medieval

>>5999614
Those threats shouldn't even exist to begin with. Who believes that they can justify killing someone for cartoons?

>>5999926
>killing infidels
>killing civilians instead of the politicians that supposedly wronged them
>not medieval
Get a load of this guy

>>5999937
I'm not at all trying to defend that. But once the threats surfaced Charlie Hebdo chose to show those dirty Muslims by further provocation. Its pretty well known that radical reactionary culture is not one to fuck with.

>>5999970
>"I'm not saying they had it coming, but they totally had it coming."

>>5999954
>killing civilians instead of the politicians that supposedly wronged them
>who is sadat
>who is benazir bhutto

These jihadis are just as influenced by fanon or the tactics of the tamil tigers (secular nationalists) than by medieval islam. Watch "the power of nightmares"

Am I the only one who is a little iffy about people going out of their way to merely offend and then playing the 'freedom of speech' card? And doesn't Charlie Hebdo realise they'll likely get people killed over this new cover illustration?

>>5999614
>Are there any good essays criticizing free speech?

No.

>>6000017
>"doing X is foolish and harmful"
>"so people who are harmed by doing X DESERVE to be harmed?!?!1111111"

SJW logic at its finest

>>6000031
>mad at Jewish Neocons in the US for funding Israel's bombing of Muslims
>I know! Lets kill a ton of US civilians! That will improve the situation.

>>6000017
I don't think you even read what I said but just rushed in with these shitty over used arguments. Charlie Hebdo is irresponsible. in 2015 journalism -satirical or otherwise- should be held to a higher standard than this. Put on your critique of pure ideology goggles :^)

>>6000039
Screaming "freedom of speech" when someone criticizes you is the oldest trick in the book. Look, I'm going to do an art installation of hyperrealistic images of infant necrophilia. DON'T LIKE IT? FREEZE PEACH

>>6000039
>Am I the only one who is a little iffy about people going out of their way to merely offend and then playing the 'freedom of speech' card?

No. Lots of people seem to lack spines.

>And doesn't Charlie Hebdo realise they'll likely get people killed over this new cover illustration?

A person who would murder someone over cartoons is a person who wants any excuse to murder someone.

Refusing to publish cartoons is not going to save any lives and only idiots could think otherwise.

>>5999970
>le epic "bend over to the Ahmed cock" meme
Really?
When was the last time anyone of any other culture killed someone who "offended" them?

>>6000048
>SJWs
>criticizing Islam

Good one. I think I found the SJWs you're looking for though:

>>6000061
>FREEZE PEACH

>>6000053
How is that relevent to my post? Was I praising al-qaeda's tactics?

>>6000048
Where did I say that? I'm not advocating violence. The use of violence shows incoherency in your ideology. What the fuck did Hebdo expect to have happened? That the Islamic extremists would laugh of their piss poor "satire"
>sjw
Oh... You're from /pol/

>>6000070
By SJW logic I meant the SJWs' typical response to people who encourage women to take precautions against rape, which is "SO THEY DESERVED TO GET RAPED IF THEY WALK DOWN A DARK ALLYWAY?!?111 IS THAT WHAT YOU THINK??!!11"

>>5999614
not exactly "criticizing free speech," but skeptical of the popular response to the Hebdo attacks:

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/unmournable-bodies

https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/equal-in-paris/

>>6000069
Offended hindus, no actual killing in this case but there has been much murderous violence by pissed off hindus in india fora few years.
http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/standpoint-the-perumal-murugan-row-why-are-we-so-easily-offended-2052528

A whim is not a right.
People usually confuse freedom with whims, and the line is always blurred. And I really think Charlie Hebdo and tons of these groups defending free thought/speech are really confused now.
And I am not talking about what those terrorists did, but the responsibility that lies on Charlie Hebdo attitude.

>>5999679
Fine; he can get pissy about pic related as well.

>>6000085
You do realize the whole point of posts like >>6000017 is to get across to SJWs, the majority of whom are critical of free speech, that they're using the exact same type of argument they typically detest, right?

>>5999754
>>6000055

I demand that all of you change your opinion because it is offensive to me. If you do not change your opinion I will kill you.

According to you it is now irresponsible of you to stick to your opinion.


I'm absolutely disgusted that there are people like this who sympathize with these horrible islamic terrorists and their jidahist ideology. People like you are in fact partly responsible for this attack. Victim blaming is the most cowardly response anyone can have to crime and barbarism. You are defending the murder of 16 innocent people, because somebody drew offensive cartoons. You are justifying the murder if 16 innocent people, some of whom had NOTHING to do with Charlie Hebdo, because their cartoons are shitty.

Please just move to the Kaliphate, you filthy swines. You don't deserve the freedom you have in the west. You would turn over our freedom and happiness to Jihadists. You're the kind of people who would blame their own sister if she was raped. Absolutely disgusting.

>>6000074

Charlie Hebdo has been attacked before. They knew exactly what these filthy Islamists wanted to do them.

But unlike weaklings like you, they defended their right to draw whatever the fuck they want. They stood of for the values of the west, values that have been fought for and defended with much bloodshed.

You are willing to give up your freedom at the first threat from some barbaric Islamists?

In my country people get threatened by Islamists for selling alcohol. Should we ban alcohol.
Or to keep it /lit/ related, should Salman Rushdie stop writing because there is a fatwa against him?


You are a disgusting coward, and you are actively contributing to the destruction of freedom and liberty.

>>6000123
You're confusing "X was a bad idea" with "people who do X 'have it coming'"

>>5999970
is not saying they "had it coming", you're strawmanning

>>5999754
>>5999756
>>5999771
>>5999789
>>5999970
>>6000039
>>6000055
>>6000061

>Salman Rushdie stop writing because it offends muslims

How can you justify being on /lit/ with this attitude?
Why don't you browse /kaliphate/ instead?

>>6000124
The /pol/ is strong in this thread. I didn't say "change your opinion" that goes directly against freedom of thought. I'm convinced you're just copy pasting the same right arguments that have been thrown around time and time again. Jesus you're acting more oppressed than the sjws you so despise. Most of what you write is complete non sequitur. Charlie Hebdo is still responsible in part for what happened. They chose to publish their shitty unfunny unintelligent cartoon and turn a blind eye to possible collateral damage.
>I'm Muslim
>I have a sister
>I'm defending murder
My god...
>pic related.

ebin

>>6000172
> Charlie Hebdo is still responsible in part for what happened.

nice victim blaming there, fuckwit

>>6000159

Do you hate freedom of speech?

This attitude is the fastest way to get rid of it.

>>6000170
salman rushdie never should have started writing to begin with lol

>>6000177
well, it's their fault.

>>6000177
>they were ignorant to what would have happened
Yeah fuck you bud. Hebdo knew exactly the possible extreme outcome of what could have happened. The fact that they value shitty cartoons over human life is disgusting.

>>6000172

WOW

Literally blaming the victim.

If I shoot you, its your fault because I find what you just wrote down offensive.

>freedom of thought

I don't know how drunk you are right now, but everything you are "thinking" you are in fact writing down.

>>6000069
Norway 2011?

>>6000172

Fuck you you worldwide moral warrior. If in my country there are some retards that insult a religion of those across the land, i will defend the interests of those of my country rather than the interests of those retards, they are my country property, and they pay taxes for protection. I will try to do anything to fuck those that think they can have power or influence in my country.

However this doesn't happen because you liberal worldwide acceptance fuckers just make everything more difficult. As some kind fellow said: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

>>5999795
or maybe because Hamas is the only organization actually providing them water and electricity. They live in a fucking Apartheid state, MLK and Gandhi did a disservice to rebellion. the US and British Empire were willing to listen to peaceful demonstration, Israel is not.

>>6000203
if you mean breivik then you might want to go back and look over the list of his victims
> little kids
> not muslims

>>6000179
>publishing cartoons of muhammad is a bad idea and could get you killed
>"stop censoring me with your reasonable, non-legally binding warnings!!!"

>>6000193
See:
>>6000062

You're acting like people who are violent and irrational enough to murder over cartoons would otherwise be harmless and it's the fault of a magazine for sending them over the edge.

Charlie Hebdo was just this week's target. In an alternate world where they didn't exist someone else would have been murdered instead.

You shithead.

>>5999887
Terrorism could not exist in medieval times, Al Qaeda and ISIS are born from the Internet age just as much as the Chans are.

>>6000223
>Islamic Fundamentalism = Terrorism
nice

>>5999887
don't you think islamic fundamentalism is pretty swag?

>>6000220
Hebdo was the only ones capable of preemptively stopping the attacks.
>2011
Got bombed for the same thing
>2015
What could possibly go wrong?

Where did all these /pol/ idiots come from?

>>6000235
And the architects of the world trade center were the only ones capable of preemptively stopping the 9/11 attacks.

>>6000245
>/pol/ is now associated with victim defending rather than victim blaming

Funny where ideology can take you.

>>6000235
>Not doing X would have stopped thing
>Therefore doing X is morally wrong

Fundamentalists always have an endless list of demands. If you try to give them everything they claim to want they'll just want something else. It never ends.

>>6000247
Were they really? God you /pol/ cucks need to reevaluate your argumentation. No. The WTC didn't receive warnings they hadn't attempted to push anyone over the edge. Misrepresentation of my post shows how fucking dense you are. And is greatly an insult to the victims of the WTC.

>>6000245
is /pol/ the victim blaming? wtf?

>>6000254
What?
I was referring to the sudden drop in discussion quality.

>>6000235
But anon. The excitement produced by the risk... That trembling you get by the idea of knowing that your work has value because suddenly an extremist group believes is evil. What other way do you have to get approval for your work but exposing your art to a group with a different point of view and forcing it to respond according to your privileges?

>>6000193

The fact that you value your 4chan post over human life is disgusting.

>>6000232
sorry for skirting around the buzzwords, everyone knows that the only concern us westerners have with Islamic Fundies is terrorism.

In any case, its still true. Fundamentalism is a reactionary movement, a reaction to the secularization of the Nation State. This is a modern invention.

>>6000259
>The WTC didn't receive warnings

The federal government did. They also were previously attacked, just like your shitty post suggested happened with Hebdo.

Nevermind the fact that your completely idiotic post neglects the tons of other variables that could have stopped the attack at Hebdo.

>>6000276
I value his posts over your life

>>6000223

>Al Qaeda born from the Internet age

Al Qaeda existed before most people even heard of the Internet?
Why do you post factually false information to defend terrorists and islamists?

>>6000287
Hey thanks guy I appreciate that

>>6000292
Pointing out that Islamic fundamentalism is an inherently modern phenomenon is not defending terrorism.

>>6000279
I'm just pointing out that the author of the article is wrong in assuming that it's technology/the internet/modern age at fault. The reality is that it's all that plus Islam that caused this thing to exist. Take away Islam and the worst "extremists" you get are fedora tipping atheists on Reddit.

>>5999781
>muh prophet feels
no

>>6000302

>hurr durr if it isn't determined by someone it doesn't exist!

back to the greeks

>>5999795
>I dont have any clue about what I am talking about: The Post

>>6000153
>In my country people get threatened by Islamists for selling alcohol. Should we ban alcohol.
Where are you from, Bongland?

>>6000304
>take away islam
what kind of fuck-up way of discussing is this? can't you see how little sense does it make?

>>6000321
Yes, the civilians in Gaza are actually victims of Hamas, who use them as human shields. Israel uses Hamas as a scapegoat to bomb and kill Muslims, so they can further continue their conquest of Jewish domination.

Sound more reasonable than my original post?

>>6000329
I am

>>6000312
What the fuck are you babbling about?

Islamic fundamentalism is a reaction to increasing globalization which is slowly secularizing the Islamic world. Furthermore the objective of Islamism, which is the creation of a totalitarian nation based on Islamic law, is based upon inherently modern ideas about the role of the state in the lives of an individual.

Islamism is a modern phenomenon whether it fits into your worldview or not.

>>6000351
>modern ideas about the role of the state in the lives of an individual
could you expand or give some links on this?

>>6000351
>the creation of a totalitarian nation based on Islamic law, is based upon inherently modern ideas about the role of the state in the lives of an individual.
The Abbasid Caliphate called, they want a word with you about Islamic history.

>>6000292
how was I defending them? Do you seriously think that its good because I associated it with the Internet?

It existed before the internet, but the modern Al Qaeda which functions as a non-state actor is born from the Internet.

Al Qaeda is an arab organization that targets and recruits Pashto/Paki/Indian Muslims, they spread their propaganda and such through the web.

ISIS even moreso.

marxists will find anything to join up to fuck up west society and his capitalism

in this case, marxists approve islamism just because they are contrarian to most state interest

truly the scum of the earth

>>6000000

>>6000376
nice false flag post

>Publishing in language other than english
>2015
Do they have an english version?

>>6000304
Do you think that if we gave the reddit atheist CIA money and weapons, and put them in a situation where they felt an their lifestyle was facing an existential risk, they'd end up doing the same thing.

I'm no SJW, but it just makes sense that this is a political problem that uses religion to recruit kids for suicide bombings.

>>6000376
>>>/pol/

>>6000376
>>>/pol/

>>6000361
I don't have any links, but the gist is that in the 19th century people weren't Christians/Jews/Muslims anymore they were Germans/Brits/Americans.

Islamism is a reaction to this, and the secularizing of governments/democracy.

(Interestingly enough I don't believe that people consider themselves Americans/Canadians/Brits/Germans anymore in the internet age, we probably live in some Post-National society and these desert fucks are still arguing about problems we solved in the 1800s)

>>6000410
>can't be against marxism and islam without being fascist
lol, good one comrade.

>on ebay you can sell a copy for more than 1000 euro
I knew I should have asked a friend to buy one for me

>>6000402
>Do you think that if we gave the reddit atheist CIA money and weapons, and put them in a situation where they felt an their lifestyle was facing an existential risk, they'd end up doing the same thing.
I doubt the average Middle Easterner has access to even a fraction of the capital that a middle class westerner does. Then again, ISIS is primarily made up of 2nd generation Muslim European immigrants, so idk.

>it just makes sense that this is a political problem that uses religion to recruit kids for suicide bombings.
I completely agree, which is why I'm against all shenanigans the US has pulled in the middle East lately.

>>6000430
Ebay still exists?

>>6000426
>>>/pol/

>>6000419
>don't consider themselves Americans/Canadians/Brits/German

Fuck off mate, I am no Americuck, pommy, maple kraut.

>>6000419

>we solved in the 1800s

they haven't because they are in a primitive cultural phase, and they must be supported to develop culturally, or eliminated, or ignored.

But their culture will not be developed if we take a bunch of immigrants and use our culture to shape them, if anything that will make our culture weaker.

>>6000452
>implying the 'roo-folk's have any say in the cultural progression of the West

>>6000462
they haven't solved them because the sons of bitches were unlucky enough to live ontop of the most important natural resource in history, don't pretend those poor sods ever had a chance after what happened to Iran.

>>6000361
Well put crudely, totalitarianism is the idea that governments have the ability and right to control populations through social programs, with the deliberate intention of creating an ideologically perfect citizen. And with people who fit in being punished by some kind of ideological police, this is a modern concept that simply didn't exist before other modern conceptualizations of things like the social contract.

As well as this Islamists presuppose a separation between religion and society, as a result they believe the state is necessary to enforce religion.

If you're interested, I can recommend "Fundamentalism Reborn?: Afghanistan and the Taliban" by William Maley, and "The Clash Of Fundamentalisms" by Tariq Ali as great studies on the origins on Islamic fundementalism.

>>6000373
>Abbasid Caliphate
Authoritarian =/= Totalitarian retard.

>>6000310
I'm an atheist, nice try though.

>>6000462
>But their culture will not be developed if we take a bunch of immigrants and use our culture to shape them

People aren't really "shaping" them to fit in the native culture. One of the main complaints against such immigrants is they make little if any attempt to assimilate and people see them as creating parallel societies.

>>6000606
Not in Europe, Canada and America have done this very successfully. Muslim immigrants to those countries are nearly a successful as Indian and Nigerian immigrants, that is to say theyre very successful.

I don't really have a dog in this fight but this ex-Charlie Hebdo writer wrote a pretty scathing takedown of the direction the magazine took since 2001: http://posthypnotic.randomstatic.net/charliehebdo/Charlie_Hebdo_article%2011.htm

Also irrespective of political views I think we can all agree that artistically their cartoons look like garbage

>>6000606
>One of the main complaints against such immigrants is they make little if any attempt to assimilate and people see them as creating parallel societies.

That's always been the complaint against immigrants. Even the most assimilated immigrants groups (Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Jews) were at one time accused of not wanting to assimilate.

>>6000659
>I think we can all agree that artistically their cartoons look like garbage

Y'know, kid, I don't think we can.

>>6000659
interesting, thanks

>>6000494

>doesn't realize that if muslims culture weren't so shitty (religion, politics, art) they would be a superpower even stronger than most countries

muslim culture must be erased

>>6000712
>they would be a superpower even stronger than most countries
No, their IQ is too low.

>>6000732
>IQ
here we go again