/lit/ - Literature

>>5983282

my twisted world by elliot rodger is a legit master piece

>>5983314
have you read it all?

>>5983337

yes. It's a great example of the unreliable narrator. Also it will leave you with no doubt that he's mentally ill.

I can't be bothered going on about it but it has themes that mainstream media won't touch. Here are two previous posts that I've made about it.

>>>>>

I looked back at one of the original topics about the manifesto and found a kind of badly written paragraph from one of my posts about it.

Along with BEE's novels you have stuff like Spring Breakers (ok I haven't seen that), wolf of wall street, goodfellas. All of that stuff where you're supposed to view it with a half mocking "lol they're bad but I kind of want to be like them lol, oops now I know I'm bad" attitude.

We see deaths in the media all the fucking time but people only hate Elliot so much because he 100 % wallows in his patheticness ( / betaness) and they hate being reminded of the faggoty parts of themselves. He gets hated ten times more than any Jihadi. When the audience doesn't have a "lmao so alpha" character to project themselves in to then they reject the art. Even Jihadi John has more style and is more popular than Elliot Rodger.

>>>>

Oh god, I skim-read the whole thing and I cannot belive this greatness. /lit/ is so fucking jealous that he wrote something better than 99.9% of /lit/ will ever write. And don't give me that crap about it being whiny blog r9k tier writing. This guy was legitimately unhinged and also brave enough to go through with it. He deserves to be forgiven for a self-indulgent style.

You plebs talk about Lolita as if it's a great example of an unreliable narrator, but in that respect, this blows it out of the water. Throughout the whole thing I was questioning whether he was telling the truth, regarding whether his perceptions were wrong, whether or not he knew his perceptions were wrong, and whether or not he was telling the reader what he believed to be the truth.

I was tired of all this Bret Easton Ellis style (and this is also frequently seen in those trashy non-fiction books about decadence on Wall Street / City of London, started by the very great book Liar's Poker) reporting from within degeneracy / decadence, while also making it clearly attractive for the reader in some mocking ironic way where I (the reader) think I am supposed to be ashamed of wanting to be within the story. This is the story in some ways I had been waiting for: looking within the degeneracy / decadence from outside.

And obviously I liked it because I believe in r9k / Reddit Red Pill theory. I'm not saying I agree with Elliot, obviously, but if you think I do then you're obviously too dismissive or bullheaded to properly understand what r9k / Reddit Red Pill is about.

>>5983314
This is actually true. Like the only thing that discredits is that it isn't fiction. If it were it would be hailed as a modern Notes from Underground

>>5983375
The prose actually sounds like Houellebecq. If he were able to stand besides himself as an observer, he could be a good writer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8GC7P80VGo

>>5983314
This. Nothing comes close to it. Finally the narrator is someone truly alienated, not just a nihilist.

>>5983375
Its better than Notes from Underground. How can someone that wins the affection of a beautiful woman (albeit she is a prostitute) be seen as existing completely outside society's boundaries?

>>5983282
Walden.
Not really a book but it's about isolation with good language.

it's amazing to me that nobody here ever talks about him, but alberto moravia is probably one of the most important writers on modern/urban alienation and anxiety. the conformist and contempt are both wonderful books.

>>5983314
I skimmed the pdf.

Oh jesus fucking christ, I go to the college he went to.

>>5983314
>>5983367
>>5983431
>>5983375

I can't believe I am actually considering reading this

I have seen excerpts and they induce a great deal of second hand embarrassment

Hegel's phenomenology of spirit
Hegel gang

Also Marx wrote about the concept
Skip Sartre and Campoo

>>5983442
>a young guy hangs around in a romantic depiction of an Italian/French city
>has a difficult relationship with his father
>literally fucks every single female character mentioned in the book

Truly the greatest mind in Italian literature

>>5983436
>Its better than Notes from Underground.

Wrong.

>How can someone that wins the affection of a beautiful woman (albeit she is a prostitute) be seen as existing completely outside society's boundaries?

Because he was so detached from normal human socialization, thought, and understanding that he couldn't even accept the love of a prostitute (women known for "love").

>>5984093
i never said he was the greatest mind in italian literature. he isn't, but he is still a pretty great writer. if your green text was the only thing you got from his work than i'd consider another hobby than reading

>>5984104
>Because he was so detached from normal human socialization, thought, and understanding that he couldn't even accept the love of a prostitute (women known for "love").

But he was still able to attain it. Just go over to /r9k/ and see how those truly alienated by society would react to that.

>>5984378
But he never "attained" her love. She said she loved him and he just said "no" - there was no relationship or anything.

Also, /r9k/ would react exactly the same
>Not fucking her (even if she was a prostitute)
>disbelief/non-acceptance that they could be loved
>criticism of the woman herself, especially for being a prostitute
>Complaining, moaning, and ultimately writing off the world yet again.

Her reasons for "loving" him were pretty flimsy anyway

>>5984378

people on r9k mostly aren't really alienated (alientation it's a choice on the side of alienated), just placed at a low hierarchic level, but dream of attaining something better (those of them who actually do something have a good chance to have a normal life btw), so they would definitely accept any sex offer they could get, an alienated person may be a person who could easily pretend to have a relatively decent place in the social hierarchy but either cannot or don't want to do it, they may be perceived as loosers too, but such a person can easily refuse a relationship with a woman which for r9kers seems incredible

>>5984398
/r9k/ is often schizophrenic in their wants to be part of society. I wouldn't write them off as simply waiting for their chance to have sex. For many of them, the failure has become something of a value.

>>5984411
>For many of them, the failure has become something of a value.

As someone who spends a lot of time posting on /r9k, this is pretty true. In a way, many of us are like the narrator of Notes from the Underground: we have a jealous, near bi-polar desire and hatred for normal society, one that shunned us and one we shunned ourselves. We value failure because it's all we know, and at any chance of success or happiness we sabotage it, because failure allows us to continue moaning about it

At least, that's how I see it.

OC:

Marx's alienation is expanding its domain into the sexual market( hence the title "The Extension of Domain of Struggle"). This is about how the sexual liberalism leads to a new type of alienation which is the theme of 4chan's /r9k/ board, where self-dubbed robots(9001) complain about Chads(alpha males) and Stacey Thundercunts(alpha females) and the failure of a meaningful relationship, sexual and emotional alike, with anyone.(that with prostitutes do not count because it is a transference of financial capital to sexual capital). In Whatever, the protagonist feels more detached from the aesthetic society due to a revelation of its inner working and became an observer instead of a subject of which. He is ultimately admitted into a mental institution.

The novels of Houellebecq are essentially contrafacts of the same motif but varies in pitches. It's always sexual liberalism that bothers the protagonists, but with different negations of alienation. In Platform, the sexual capital functions the same but its distribution is uneven. Sexual tourism is merely an inevitable byproduct of sexual liberalism. It is an accurate description of the transition from modern to postmodern societal values. In "The Elementary Particles", Bruno, the Omega male motif, has an alienated scientist brother Michel(in the same way as the protagonist in Whatever) genetically engineered an asexual species of human being. It probably stems from the sociology of Comte's positivism. In Submission, by sharp contrast, Houellebecq promotes Islamic values. It is very straightfoward that women do not have to be sexually explicit and men still get to live polygamous lifestyles. Theoretically it would be a cure to the sexual liberalism; advocating the regression to traditional sexual values is an analog of the Marxist rhetoric of the return to a communistic society. Michel Houellebecq is, in this sense, a Sex Marxist.

Whatever is basically Wilhelm Reich's Sexual Liberation put in novel form. Reich's theory purports that to have sex, you either need mullah, like Bill Gates or are able to get girls wet, like Snoop Dogg.

>>5984411
well, i mean that they mostly want to be a part of society but lack something, usually it's that they are fat, lazy and diffident, and it stops them to have a better social life, while alienated people do not want to have a better social life, not pretending like a fox who don't want grapes, but for some other reason, usually that close social connections may scare or annoy them etc, may be they would like to be more social, they possibly have a serious case of social anxiety, anyway such reclusive people are still significantly different from the first group. r9k possibly has both and these groups can mix too, but the second case may affect people who are good looking, skilled etc too

>>5984434
what's the difference between the users of /r9k and /b? is there one?

>>5984593
/r9k/ is aware - and more or less obsessed - with its own failings and shortcomings.

/b/ is not aware of these things and they don't care.

>>5984593
/b/ is the 16 year old guy who tries to be the funny one in class by being "lol random xD" and pretends to have a girlfriend

/r9k/ is the same guy 10 years later, still a virgin, and very bitter about it