/lit/ - Literature

They want a "D"

Because there's no need for it to exist anymore and all those women who feel empowered by it don't want it to end so they manipulate it so that it becomes so stupidly contrived that we have modern feminism

>>5980040
Capitalism.

Delete OP
Sage/report, everyone else, please.

Not at bad as modern leftism. Ever been to Revleft? "Are video games bourgeois"? (mlp avatar)

>>5980058
Yeah, it's more that our generation of politics is shit, period.

everything good which feminism ever had was borrowed from humanism

Entitlement, arrogance, and small communities that only speak to one another.

Any time you put a bunch of radicals in a room together they are more radical when they come back out. The internet accelerated this effect in modern feminism.

what do you mean?

>>5980078
>Entitlement, arrogance, and small communities that only speak to one another. >Any time you put a bunch of radicals in a room together they are more radical when they come back out. The internet accelerated this effect in modern feminism.

so /pol/ is just as garbage?

Because you have a penis, OP, so you feel threatened.

>>5980085
Does that even deserve to be a question?

>>5980078
What is she looking at if the screen is pointed in that direction? Are there two screens? Is she laughing at how clueless she is?

>>5980090
she saw a pic of ur tiny penis m8 she had to turn away and laugh

>>5980087
>Because you have a penis, OP, so you feel threatened.
Don't forget his brain is still growing, probably hitting the hating women (mother)stage about now as chemicals used to force the young male from the nest so he can go out and start fighting other males for territory, are flushing through his brain. After a while, the mating instinct kicks in and he will find instead an unearthly attraction for women and realise they are as important and then more important than the teenage self. Or he is gay and is having trouble putting things right in his mind. Or something else, nonetheless its just him growing up. Pat him on the head he will be ok.

>>5980071
Humanism is shit, whereas there are a few strains of good feminism, so I must disagree.

>>5980087
More like feminists feel threatened by anyone with a penis.

>>5980058
>bourgeois
If we're going by Marx's definition, pretty much everyone is. Unless they buy they're stuff on debt. If they have credit which can substain them for for some time and not force them into work straigt away, they're bourgeois.

>>5980128
By Marx's definition, he was bourgeois.

>>5980085
They're worse. Feminists at least attempt to think. /pol/ are a bunch of monkeys flinging shit everywhere.

>>5980040
Why do you care so much about a political movement for women?

I dont understand why so many men have an issue with these kinds of social movements: the male of the species has always acclimatized and overcame the environment in which he has lived, ideological movements are just another thing to adapt to

>>5980102

Maybe there's truth to this, but a visit to tumblr isn't particularly enlightening either.

>>5980135
>Feminists
>Think

Back to Tumblr you go love.

>>5980137
>Why do you care about a movement that only promotes the interests of (middle class white) women?

I wonder...

>>5980141
Every political movement only cares about a particular group's interest, what the hell is your deal? At least feminism didn't kill as many people as any other major ideology.

>>5980141
>being this unfamiliar with feminism

>>5980141
I can see why you would think that, but allowing the lunatic fringe and the useful idiots who support that movement become the basis of your opinion on the ideology as a whole isn't what i would call intellectual honesty.

Im by no means a feminist but i dont consider feminism to be the ridiculous garbage on tumblr et al that seems to get so much attention. Those people are morons and can be disregarded especially considering there is a lot of source material and historical evidence that is a better point of reference.

>>5980150
>At least feminism didn't kill as many people as any other major ideology.
>40-50 million abortions worldwide per year

>>5980040
Because you feel threatened by feminist critique of male psychology that asserts your ultimately as an animal mostly unable to control your will to dominance, when your whole life absistence and discipline have been drilled to your thick skull.

>>5980167
>muh 50 gajillion

good goy

>>5980151
Feminism has always been a tool for educated white and jewish women to promote their self interests at the expense of others. That includes other women. How do you think white women got the vote?

>>5980167
Thank fuck there's 40-50 million less mouths to feed and 20-25 million less relationships burdened by unwanted children.

>>5980167
kek
Children are the biggest losers when it comes to feminism. Funny how men are the ones who are always considered the most dangerous to children.

>>5980180
if you were familiar with feminism you'd know that has been changing for a couple of decades now

>>5980040
Because the thing feminism sought to achieve origi ally, the abstract freedom and equality of bourgeois society, has long tjrned stale, making the movement devolve into a system of scams for moral blackmail, like all movements and identities. You only notice it more in feminism than elsewhere because the group it claims to represent is the largest one in any society.

>>5980180
Rothbard, plz. White women got the vote because many of them were willing to prison for trying to vote, and have to get force fed with tubes because they refused to eat.

>>5980138
>but a visit to tumblr isn't particularly enlightening either.

http://www.tumblr.com/search/anti+feminism

http://www.tumblr.com/search/sjw%20bullshit

>>5980188
Oh you pay them lip service, just like any other group. When push comes to shove however, you will throw them overboard.

>>5980199
they speak for themselves

The most radical blogs of Tumblr are terrible, most Tumblr blogs aren't even feminist blogs, and most feminist blogs aren't the cisshit blogs, and Tumblr represents feminism like Revleft represents leftism.

>>5980193
White women were given the vote because they begged their husbands until they gave in. I think it has proven to be one of the biggest mistakes in history.

>>5980167
>>5980187
>implying they are children
>implying they have consciousness
>implying they're not utterly disposable

>>5980203
>White women were given the vote because they begged their husbands until they gave in

They protested and refused to work. As the textile and other industries were almost entirely women on production lines, the government had no choice but to let them vote.

>>5980203
By repeating offenses, Paul purposefully strove to receive the seven-month jail sentence that started on October 20, 1917. She had previously been incarcerated on a number of occasions for insignificant periods, but Paul did not believe that made enough of a statement about the persecution of women in America.[11]
When sent to Occoquan, the women were given no special treatment and had to live in harsh conditions, with poor sanitation, infested food, and dreadful facilities.[9] In protest of the conditions in Occoquan, Paul began a hunger strike,[12] which led to her being moved to the prison’s psychiatric ward and force-fed raw eggs through a feeding tube. "Seems almost unthinkable now, doesn’t it?" Paul told an interviewer from American Heritage when asked about the forced feeding. "It was shocking that a government of men could look with such extreme contempt on a movement that was asking nothing except such a simple little thing as the right to vote."[13]
Alt
Alice Paul
On the night of November 14, 1917, at Occoquan, known as the Night of Terror, a group of returning protesters was beaten by guards to the point of unconsciousness. Some were choked and one was even stabbed between her eyes by her own banner; others received concussions, lacerations and broken ribs. None of the protesters received medical assistance after the event and they were thrown into concrete "punishment cells." [10] Despite the brutality of the intervention, Paul remained undaunted and on November 27 and 28, all the suffragists were released from prison.[9]
Paul's hunger strike, combined with the continuing demonstrations and attendant press coverage, kept pressure on the Wilson administration.[8] In January 1918, Wilson announced that women's suffrage was urgently needed as a "war measure," and strongly urged Congress to pass the legislation. The amendment passed the House in 1918 but the Senate was a different story. President Wilson even attended the Senate meeting and urged the senators to pass this amendment. The amendment still fell two votes short of passing. The next year, 1919, the amendment was one vote short of passing. In 1920 the Nineteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution was passed and secured the vote for women. Originally, the amendment wasn't going to pass, being short by one vote again, but the senator of Tennessee changed his vote when he received a telegram from his mother asking him to support women’s suffrage.[3]

>>5980206
ah yes, anything that stands in the way of getting your cunt stuffed is not conscious and is utterly disposable. I forgot how women thought.

>>5980040
What i say is let the sluts work, Me n me boi marx r just "LOLing" at this commodity fetishism. Like dumb ass hoes dont even realise their selling themselves into capitalist slavery LOL, word up nigga.

>>5980154
tumblr feminists didn't come out of nowhere. They were created by University sociology and gender studies departments. Academic feminists are in general just as bad as tumblr feminists. They're simply able to put more flair in their language so they don't come off as complete idiots.

>>5980211
a real human bean

>>5980213
>if someone comes onto my property without my permission, I should have the right to shoot them
>if someone starts living inside a woman's body without her permission she needs to stop being so selfish and let them

>>5980213
>I forgot how women thought.

says the dude who thinks pregnant women are incapable of having sex

>>5980217
>They were created

fuckin creationists

>>5980219
>without her permission
>remember little foetus NO means NO

>>5980167
abortion existed before feminism

>>5980227
>if a retard with downs comes onto to my property without my permission, I shouldn't be able to legally shoot them

>>5980211
>She was a descendant of William Penn, the Quaker founder of Pennsylvania.
Oh look, another white upper class bitch.

>>5980231
Do you dislike any woman who isn't poor and black? She had more balls than you do, you're just a furnace of intense ressentiment.

>>5980230
bad analogy, it would be like you shooting the individual after you had taken it onto your property. In which case it would be murder.

>>5980236
point is feminism has always been about the interests of the educated and upper class white woman. That is until the third wave figured out that they could use racism to push their agenda like a trojan horse.

>>5980231
>Oh look, another white upper class bitch.

>WAAAH she has more money than me what a bitch! I'm better than she is even though I haven't done shit with my life just because I have less money.
Jesus, leftism is cancer. This sort of shit is enough to make me want to be a reactionary.

>>5980237
It would be murder if you don't let them live there for nine months?

>>5980239
And communism has always been about the interests of the intellectual elite. And fascism has always been about the interests of the military elite. And democracy has always been about the interest of just the elite.

>>5980231
>Oh look, another white upper class bitch.
How about Beyonce then? She's black and can't make enough money in a male dominated music industry.

“You know, equality is a myth, and for some reason, everyone accepts the fact that women don’t make as much money as men do. I don’t understand that. Why do we have to take a backseat?”

“I truly believe that women should be financially independent from their men. And let’s face it: Money gives men the power to run the show. It gives men the power to define value. They define what’s sexy. And men define what’s feminine. It’s ridiculous.”

--Beyonce

>>5980236
The fact is feminism has always been primarily a movement pushed by the most privileged people in society: the daughters and husbands of rich white men. How good do you have it that you can demand changes in law by threatening self-harm?

>>5980213
>Being this /pol/ permavirgin

>>5980248
Is that the same beyonce who uses her sex appeal to sell her music?

>>5980252
>The fact is feminism has always been primarily a movement pushed by the most privileged people in society: the daughters and husbands of rich white men

That's an interesting asserting, not quite sure you can back it up.

>How good do you have it that you can demand changes in law by threatening self-harm?
The IRA did that.

>>5980252
>The fact is feminism has always been primarily a movement pushed by the most privileged people in society
As communism is today, at least in the first world. The workers got their demands, but the people who are privileged still want a USSR shithole to live in.

>>5980248
Funny thing is I read a few weeks ago that Beyonce doesn't consider herself a feminist. Besides, why the hell would I care what she thinks? She's a singer with a hot body, not an intellectual. The wage gap is nonsense.

>>5980252
>husbands of rich white men
ugh

>>5980257
>Terrorists threaten self harm
This is a joke right?

Women just throw tantrums and if they cry hard enough they get what they want. Feminists still rely on their "male allies" or whatever they call the white-knight fedora tippers, who call themselves feminist.

>>5980257
> not quite sure you can back it up.
These women lived like princesses and had to do nothing but pop out babies.

>>5980252
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Parsons

>>5980268
The IRA went on hunger strikes in prison, derp. It hag a large effect on their support.

>>5980248
>Beyonce bitching "that women don’t make as much money as men do."
>Net worth: $450 million.

>>5980274
I'm sure you actually have a paper that shows the average income of a feminist back then was princess level?

>>5980281
They didn't even have to work. Talk about privilege.

>>5980276
>marriage to newspaper editor Albert Parsons

>>5980248
>They define what’s sexy. And men define what’s feminine.

Obviously. Women define men too, we define each other because we work in relationship with one another. Does she want to define women without any reference to men? How can you define sexy without referring to the other sex that wants to have sex with you? It's absurd.

>>5980281
Do we agree that feminist activism would have essentially been impossible for lower class women in the early 20th century?

>>5980150
>At least feminism didn't kill as many people as any other major ideology.
The idea is to stop toxic ideologies before they spread. Better to stop the Nazis in 1922 than 1945 after they have killed millions. Letting people who hate you take power is suicidal.

>>5980285
According to Marx, the first class exploitation is the wife by the husband, and childbearing is the first division of labor.

>>5980302
>Women define men too, we define each other because we work in relationship with one another.

Not quite, squire. The way 'masculinity' and 'femininity' is fed to the masses, is shaped by the patriarchy within a capitalist system.

>>5980307
No, that's pretty ridiculous to assert.

>>5980311
Is Marx telling me if I was forced not to work, but to stay home and have my wife support me and meet my every need, I would be being exploited?

>>5980315
How would a lower class women, who for the most part spent next to 100% of her time working and tending to her household, find the time for feminist activism?

>>5980265

>the wage gap is nonsense
[citation needed]

>>5980307
i don't even get how this is a point

so what? everything was about the white middle class back then

>>5980319
I dunno, take a look at the pic the OP posted here.
>>5980114
I looked up the quote, its from The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State

>>5980313
>patriarchy within capitalism
Our sexual desires are innate, not set by society. How would capitalism and patriarchy even control this? They could only profit from it.

>>5980320
How did male workers have time for labor activism?

>>5980313
For the vast majority of human history, there was no way to "feed" anything to the masses. "Masculinity" and "femininity" arise independently in every human culture as far as we can look back.They are not properties of capitalism or "patriarchy." They are properties of human nature.

>>5980323
well sounds like women had/have a pretty sweet deal in this "patriarchy".

>>5980326
>What are Unions?

Labor activism meant no work.

>>5980322
The point here is that feminist activism is the result of middle class women who had nothing to do.

this is disgusting. 1 in 4 women are being raped every second and all you can do is shitpost. a quarter of the people in this thread have already been raped and now you go ahead and rape them again with your bigotry.

shaaaaame

>>5980342
Then couldn't a woman go on strike from housework in activism?

>>5980344
and? is that it?

>>5980337
Not before convenience appliance and public schooling.

>>5980347
don't tell women to stop making up stories, tell imaginary male fraternity members to stop imaginarily gang-raping them

>>5980333
>They are properties of human nature.

leftists don't believe in human nature

>>5980353
Yes. They were not oppressed. They were princesses kicking and screaming because they were bored.

>>5980360
Pretty sure Rousseau was the first leftist

>>5980361
they didnt have rights to education or land ownership

>>5980361
Sort of like you are now? except with more motivation?

Feminism is dead anyway. The movement reached its original goals years ago. Women are economically and politically free, they have equal opportunity and representation.

Feminists are not satisfied, because there is still power to be gained.

>>5980361
I tend to agree. Women hate boredom. So they venture into non-safe spaces. But some women get scared in non-safe spaces, so they make those spaces safe. But once the space is safe, women get bored.

>>5980364
That was not oppression in the early 20th century. And most of them DID have access to education. In fact if they didn't feminist activism would have never came to be.

>>5980368
>Feminists are not satisfied, because there is still power to be gained.

yeah because they still have the short end when it comes to social standing

>>5980374
Yes, it must be very hard being a middle/upper class white woman.

>>5980373
>That was not oppression in the early 20th century.

not having the same rights as men is oppression

>>5980374
Why? Because they can't go out dressed promiscuously without being afraid they might get raped?

>>5980377
not as easy as being a middle/upper class white man, hence my point

>>5980379
no because they're still talked about in such a baselessly condescending manner as you are doing now

>>5980377
It mus being Man on a Mission oppressed by women who got voting legalized for females nearly a hundred years ago. Must feel like a veritable whip in Egypt, as bad as your internet going out.

>>5980377
Isn't this exactly what modern feminism is critiquing?

>>5980383
Yeah it is so hard being a middle class white woman. You have to sit around looking pretty while men do things for you because they want to sleep with you.
Such oppression.

>>5980392
again, it's not as easy as being a middle/upper class man. again, hence my point

can you build on that or are you just going to roll out the memes?

>>5980384
Sorry sweety, but if you are not entitled to my respect. You aren't oppressed because people don't respect you for who you are.

>>5980378
No, it's not, especially not at that time where social mobility was nearly impossible and obligations were different. You were whoever your family was. If you were the daughter of a wealthy man, you lived the life of a princess and were expected to do nothing but marry another wealthy man and make babies. If you were a man, you were expected to be competent and carry on the family business.

>>5980399
that's a funny way of wording it

>>5980391
Yeah, that's what defines third-wave feminism as apart from second-wave.

>>5980403
so you're saying women had the same rights as men, or..?

>>5980393
How many white middle class women faced the draft?

>>5980410
how many white middle class women were told they weren't allowed to fight in a war on account of their sex?

>>5980410
None, but the Equal Rights Amendment would have made women subject to draft, that's a major reason anti-feminists opposed it.

Of course, since women had no political representation, it's a bit silly to say their lucky for not having to fight in in wars started strictly by men elected strictly by men, and that men it oh so hard when men are the people starting the wars. It's like saying whites have it lucky because they don't have to worry about gang-drive buys, and we should be thankful to poor blacks for fighting gang wars so we don't have to.

>>5980414
Oh, I am sure they would have been lining up to go off and die for their country.

>>5980399

aha. yet the way you treat those women who aren't entitled to your respect is markedly different in execution than the way you treat men who aren't likewise entitled to your respect. but that's a distinction that you still can't seem to comprehend or appreciate.

when you spend your whole life as a fish breathing water, it's very difficult to understand what water is. that takes actual work. the likes of which you seem completely unwilling or unable to do.

>>5980417
lining up for the draft?

>>5980393
Let's say that it were not as easy--by even the most bullshit metric the difference is slim. A white middle class woman is far closer to a white middle class man than she is a lower class minority. And it's not harder at all. A pretty white woman can get away with never lifting a finger.

>>5980422
>A pretty white woman can get away with never lifting a finger.

key word being pretty. so basically if you're not an attractive white girl, you're going to have to work harder than even the most average looking man

>>5980408
Women and men did not have the same rights, they also did not have the same amount of obligations.

The amount of rights you have do not indicate how oppressed you are.

>>5980422

your position just becomes narrower and narrow. first it's women, then it's upper middle class women. then it's upper middle class white women. then it's pretty upper middle class white women.

you don't have a position--you just want to ensure that women don't get too uppity, and you'll move the goalposts accordingly to prevent it.

>>5980231
Marx, Robespierre,, Napoleon, Lincoln, etc. were all upper class men. Should we stop recognizing them at all because they were upper class? Every single male philosopher was upper class, for Christ's sake. Even Epictetus you could said had it "easy", he was a just a home servant for a rich guy.

I don't see you dismissing every single male accomplishment or struggle when the figureheads are upper class. I don't recall seeing that sort of stupidity in any thread.

>>5980428
>they also did not have the same amount of obligations.

legal obligations? rights are a matter of legality.

>The amount of rights you have do not indicate how oppressed you are.

they correlate

>>5980428
>The amount of rights you have do not indicate how oppressed you are.

uh what? how the fuck do you define oppression then you infantile maniac. it has everything to do with rights and the lack thereof.

and before you even start, RIGHTS are not always the same as those rights codified by law.

>>5980428
Athenian slaves didn't have an obligation to serve in the military. Some carried stuff for their masters around at war, but the vast majority stayed home. Therefore Athenian slaves had it easy.

>>5980427
You have to get the bottom of the barrel to get to the point where a woman's looks are so bad that she has to put in as much work as even males in the top tier attractiveness.

>>5980435
Women were exempt from even carrying stuff around for quite some time.

The big bad Patriarchy seems to have been protecting women for quite some time.

>>5980437
What, you mean in her job? Work in what are you talking about?

>>5980442
>Women were exempt from even carrying stuff around for quite some time.
No they weren't. Unless you mean in war, but the great majority of male slaves did not go to war, they stayed in the homes and the city.

>>5980437
is this real life or your strange hypothetical?

oh great, another feminism thread where two maybe three feminists have to defend themselves against 20 practically interchangeable immature male chauvinists.

>>5980437
Even land-whales believe they are entitled to relationships with attractive men, but according to feminists, men are the ones who feel entitled to sex.

>>5980429
I haven't strayed from my position. I've pretty much always been talking about middle class + women and that's been clear from context. The only thing I've done is avoid monotony. Lower class women have genuinely been oppressed, but so have lower class men. For most of history the oppression that women faced has not been uneven with oppression men have.

It's fine if women want to get uppity about things that actually matter, but most "feminist" issues are non-issues, and feminists have gotten what they want primarily by using vagina power. Yes, I have a problem with that.

>>5980444
Yes of course, but they still faced going off to war. Women never needed to leave the protection of the city.

>>5980448
Even autistic men believe they are entitled to relationships with qt3.14's, but according to autistic men, it's the women who feel entitled to sex.

>>5980448

let me know when there's a female elliott rodgers and i will concede your point. until then: go get fucking educated.

>>5980451
>Yes of course, but they still faced going off to war
No, they didn't, unless it was their job.

>>5980454

actually one isn't enough, you're really going to have to show female murderers that murder men out of principle at the same or greater rate than we see men that murder women out of principle.

protip: ain't gonna happen.

>>5980433
Women did not have the legal obligation to go to war. But even putting that aside, no, it isn't simply about the legal obligations. In determining whether or not someone is oppressed, you need to look at their circumstances. Many would say women in Saudi Arabia are oppressed, and most are, yet if you look at women in the upper class, these Saudi princesses, they're able to do virtually whatever they want despite not having the same rights, by law, as a lower class man.

It doesn't matter if they correlate. If you came from a family with money in the early 20th century, like most feminists were, you were not oppressed, regardless of your gender.

>>5980229
Yes, but it wasn't considered to be a god given right and it wasn't on such a huge scale.

>>5980252
>The fact is feminism has always been primarily a movement pushed by the most privileged people in society: the daughters and husbands of rich white men.
Yeah, because all the peasants had enough education and power to change anything.
No, every poor woman was completely fine with the lack of power they had, nobody in the countryside minded. Only the rich white people cared about rights.

Think for once in your life. Nobody listens to Anne from the shire and her opinions.

>>5980449
>I haven't strayed from my position.

lol you have. maybe if you had a point to begin with rather than trying to develop it by making shit up as you went a long it would be a lot more cohesive and you wouldn't be in such a mess

>For most of history the oppression that women faced has not been uneven with oppression men have.

oppressed by other men. what could possibly be to blame?

>but most "feminist" issues are non-issues

evidently that's not the case if you care at all about men oppressing other men

>>5980451
War then was basically about plunder, m8. Men started the wars to steal women and money from each other, young degenerates enjoyed war because they liked to steal and rape. It's just acting like a nigger, the most honorable thing about it is fighting fo da hood, but it was mainly about stealing and rape.

>>5980463
but they spoke on behalf of those who were oppressed because there's no way those who were oppressed had enough political autonomy to be taken seriously.

i really don't understand what's got you so upset.

>>5980363
Yeah but leftism has been getting much more retarded in the past 45 years.

>>5980454
how would feminism help stop cases like elliot rogers from happening?

>>5980434
Children don't have the same rights as adults yet we don't say that children are oppressed. Oppression isn't as simple as quantifying rights. The fact that a lower class man was able to own property and vote doesn't mean that he had it anywhere near as good as women who came from money.

>>5980464
they're not performed in the name of feminism. they weren't killing fetuses because those fetuses posed a political threat

>>5980453
I don't feel entitled to anyone. I can't help it if I find qt3.14s more attractive, that is just innate predisposition.

>>5980454
I agree there will never be a female elliot rodgers. Women can get laid quite easily.

>>5980466
>evidently that's not the case if you care at all about men oppressing other men

dude this is a point that i wish feminists would stick more. about how mysoginy and the patriarchy totally fucks over men too. i mean, how many times do guys have to be called a fag for being somewhat smart or bookish, because those qualities are associated with women. or how many times do guys feel like they have to act behave cruelly even when they know it's wrong, because if they do not, they will be seen as submissive and feminine?

it's important for the wellbeing of men as well.

>>5980267
/lit/ I have a more important question, why are women so passive aggressive?

>>5980447
I am not a chauvinist for not accepting feminist's bullshit.

>>5980481
Women can get laid easily because men are basically sluts, whereas women have standards. If men started getting more standards instead of drooling like a dog over every piece of ass they have the opportunity to sleep with, maybe things would be better.

>>5980475

men would understand that they aren't entitled to sex. and since they would no longer feel entitled to it, they would no longer become angry when they don't get it. and if they no longer become angry when they don't get it, they will no longer harbor irrational hated towards women because of it. and if they no longer irrationally hate women, they will be less likely to go on women-targeted shooting sprees.

see how this works?

you know why women don't do that? because women know they aren't entitled to having men. that's why we don't see that chain of events for them.

it starts by changing the culture of entitlement.

>>5980472
They didn't care about lower class women. They cared about themselves and their friends.

Feminists didn't start pretending they care about lower class women until about 50 years later when people started calling them out on it.

>>5980484
It allows them to avoid direct confrontation.

>>5980482
THEY TALK ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME.

>>5980475
lol

>feminists claim men are entitled to sex for some reason
>elliot rodgers is an example of a man who felt entitled to sex so bad he went on a killing spree
>HOW CAN FEMINISM FIX THAT?

spot-on response

>>5980485
Yeah, you actually are. You sound like the people from the South who say that slavery was actually easy on black people. It wasn't until the 1970's that "she is not his wife" was removed from the requirements for rape in the law.

>>5980490
Supply and demand. You limit supply then demand will sky-rocket. Maybe women need to drop their standards a bit.

>>5980482
>dude this is a point that i wish feminists would stick more.

they do but it's not really in 4chan's interests to represent feminism fairly

>>5980498

oh, i know it's talked about. but i feel like the way that men are (speaking as a man myself) it is VERY hard to get us to empathize with an Other. the only way men are going to embrace feminism is if it is demonstrated how it affects them personally.

>>5980503
Compared to where they are now I'd say they had it ok.

>>5980493
Most feminism was concerned with legal rights that applied to all women, period. Equal pay for equal work applied acorns the board, period. What does that have to do with whether or not a woman is rich?

>>5980466
The oppression that men face from other men is not a feminist issue. It's not even an issue of gender. It's an issue of human nature and the desire for power.

Also, real oppression doesn't exist today in the West. People live in some terrible situations, sure, but social mobility has never been greater. There are no hands above with the power to actively prevent people who desire to succeed from succeeding in life.

>>5980492
>see how this works?

not really. i think cancelling out sexual desire and pride and jealousy and all the other things associated with this is a very tall order.

>>5980492
Men don't feel entitled to sex, that is why they are so desperate to go out and get it by any means.

Women can get sex at the click of their fingers, but unlike men, they only value the top 20% of candidates as options.

>>5980493
still don't understand what's making you upset

>>5980509
Who? Blacks, or women?

>>5980504
>Maybe women need to drop their standards a bit
Not good for our genetic future.

>>5980482
Since when is being smart associated with being a girl? Maybe you just come off faggy and it has nothing to do with the fact that you read books.

>>5980510

i think your interlocutor doesn't appreciate how the only only population of women that had the TIME, EDUCATION and ACCESS to address these issues were upper middle class white women. it's not a goddamn conspiracy, but a racial and economic reality.

>>5980511
>It's an issue of human nature and the desire for power.

which is apparently only found in one gender

>Also, real oppression doesn't exist today in the West.

when does oppression become 'real' oppression? when the news talks about it in those terms?

>>5980484
>why do women get angry when I'm a sexist asshole?

>>5980519
>thinks chad is the best genetic candidate

>>5980513
If women were constantly hassling guys for sex like guys do with women, then men would only bother with the top 20% of candidates as well, if that. Men complain that women have it easy because they can get laid so fast, but it's men who make themselves available as hell.

>>5980519
Blacks, women have always had it good, like men. They had less rights but were sheltered by men from war.

>>5980520

since fucking forever, poindexter

>>5980513
>Men don't feel entitled to sex, that is why they are so desperate to go out and get it by any means.

these two clauses contradict each other

>but unlike men, they only value the top 20% of candidates as options.

2/10 would not bang

>>5980527
I think men who focus on having accomplishing something with their lives and providing a financially well off future for their children are the best candidates, as opposed to professional atheists.

>>5980492
>using the supreme gentleman as an example

Are you serious? He was clearly mentally ill, so he doesn't exactly represent the majority of men.

>>5980520
Reading at a younger age is associated with women.
Reading literature is also since most national language majors are women.

>>5980528
Men are biologically predisposed to have sex with as many partners as possible.
If men could get thee top 20% of women and still sleep with the bottom 80% they would.

>>5980492
There is no general male entitlement when it comes to sex. Most men understand that to get bitches they need to convince women they are worthy. Not all know the best way to go about that. Some are straight up wrong (betas), but in general no man thinks that he deserves sex from a woman simply because he is a man and she is a woman. Elliot Rodger was mentally ill. His issues have nothing to do with feminism.

>>5980520

it's not associated with literally being a girl, it's associated with being weak and effete, which are generally (read: wrongly) assumed to be feminine qualities. ie: faggy pussy

>>5980542
>they need to convince women they are worthy

oh dear

>>5980541
>Men are biologically predisposed to have sex with as many partners as possible.
B-but I'm hardwired to be a slut and cheat on my gf!

>>5980542

fuuuuuck off

>>5980503
Where were the white women on those slave plantations? They weren't on the fields. No, they were living in the mansions with their husbands and fathers.

>>5980542
Are you kidding? Have you been on r9k?

>>5980549
a nice relevant post

>>5980535
Not a contradiction. You are entitled to something if you believe it is owed to you. Men desire sex, but they don't believe they are owed it for simply being a male.

>>5980550
>have you been on a site for mentally ill teenagers

i have seen it.

is it unreasonable to think you can find someone to love or just hook up with? no, not at all. is it entitlement to see that it's pretty fucking easy for most people to hook up with women and expect it to be the same for you? i don't think so.

i mean, what is this 'entitlement' shit all about? it's totally reasonable to expect to have sex. i feel like people who talk about entitlement are abusing the grey area between reasonable expectations and actual entitlement, the feeling of being owed.

>>5980539

look at it this way: for most men this entitlement which turns into confusion, which turns into frustration which turns into irrational hatred manifests itself as, i dunno, shitty nasty comments on a message board, or shitty nasty comments to real life acquantances, or demeaning behavior towards a non-acquaintance or partner, or, finally, domestic violence. if we can stop it at the source, then the chances of completely unhinged individuals like elliott rodgers ever getting to that point can be elimniated.

but mass murders are just eh most extreme manifestation of misogyny and patriarchy. 99% of its comes out in less bombastic though no less awful ways.

>>5980545
He is right. Men have to work to earn sex, women are the judges, picking who they view as the best candidate is.
The problem is, now the top male candidates can sleep with many different women without consequences. This drives the supply to lesser candidates down.

>>5980555
but harassing women for not wanting to have sex with you is entitlement

>>5980565
>earn sex

oh dear

Two reasons

For one, extremist, radical and controversial views attract attention and can be exploited for a profit

A lot of "feminists" realized this and say stupid shit intentionally to make money off the it. As it's easier, cheaper, and more efficient to spread information than ever before with the arrival of the internet and social media, many of these individuals see opportunities that were not present before.

Secondly, with the arrival of the internet, hugbox echochamber communities can be established where individuals only see the same ideas and arguments over and over again. If desired, the individual can avoid opposing viewpoints altogether. Because of the nature of how social media works, people with such views can easily be blocked or ignored, further exacerbating the echochamber mentality.

>>5980558
>it's totally reasonable to expect to have sex.

it's totally reasonable to want to have sex. it is not totally reasonable to expect it as an inevitability, or, in the most extreme cases, as a right.

>>5980569

and then there's this asshole who just drops into the thread with a loud wet fart.

>>5980568

are you implying it's a free gift? last i checked there was nothing in my cereal.

>>5980524
Men are more aggressive and competitive than women.This is an issue of biology.

I alluded to the difference. Black men who were enslaved and forced to work on plantations were oppressed. Black men who live in violent living conditions are not.

feminism is always garbage

women that aren't submissive are worse than slugs that you accidentally step on

>>5980575

you can't help but be wrong on multiple topics at once, can you?

>>5980545
>>5980548
>>5980550
Please tell me where I'm wrong.

>>5980577
>he doesn't take care to avoid stepping on slugs

you're a real piece of shit, you know that?

>>5980447
You know its the same guy playing devils advocate to make anons think their positions through and keep it real, from this perspective its more like old school /lit/ in other words a feminism thread thats actually good and intriguing.

>>5980582

there have been 32 unique posts in this thread. aside from myself i think there's maybe one or two other pro-feminists posters active right now.

do the math. the proportions are always the same. sitewide.

>>5980575
>Men are more aggressive and competitive than women.This is an issue of biology.

you don't think that could result in some sort of social system?

>Black men who were enslaved and forced to work on plantations were oppressed. Black men who live in violent living conditions are not.

the difference being ...?

>>5980570
So some men are entitled to sex, due to their existence, but others are not? Isn't this what triggered Rodger's rampage?

>>5980584
*unique posters

>>5980587

no, nobody is entitled to sex. everybody wants to have it, but nobody is owed it as a right. what about this don't you understand?

>>5980566
It's not about entitlement. It's about male-female dynamics. In order to get sex from women, men have to convince them they're worthy of it. Even with men and women who are in a relationship, men are still in this role requiring them to convince her. It only makes sense that sometimes men will take it too far, and harass or worse.

>>5980591

and actually i will amend this statement by saying that there are in fact people who literally do not want to have sex. who think sex is repulsive. so not even everyone wants it

>>5980586
Look at ever culture ever that had a civilisation and tell me it is a product of a social system.

>>5980595
>men are still in this role requiring them to convince her

lol

maybe you could elaborate a little bit

>>5980603
you need to read my post again

>>5980595
>It only makes sense that sometimes men will take it too far, and harass or worse.

that is entitlement

>>5980603

here, have six CONTEMPORARY societies.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/31274/6-modern-societies-where-women-literally-rule

and that's without going into civilizations of past.
and by the way, maybe you s

>>5980591
>nobody is entitled to sex
According to what? Your personal beliefs? Is this how you think the world works?
Boy have I got news for you

>>5980040
>modern feminism
self titled modern "feminists" are garbage. feminism itself is fine. dont blame everything on feminism because you see a few men haters on your facebook calling themselves feminism. feminism now is simply just gender theory. feminism only stuck because of the first two waves. get your shit straight.

>>5980595

you just literally described the behavior of entitlement without even fucking understanding it.

fuck..it's like talking to a brick wall.

>>5980595
whhhhaaaaaat

For me to have sex with a guy, I have to like him and want to have sex with him. He doesn't have to retrieve the Golden Fleece.

Maybe you're confused about vetting. When a woman is checking to make sure you're not a socially awkward basketcase who will flip out of she breaks up with you in case it doesn't work, it's not convincing her you're "worthy", it's just showing you're not dysfunctional.

>>5980611

according to human fucking behavior you moron.

>>5980586
>you don't think that could result in some sort of social system?
Of course not. These male/female differences are observed in every culture we've ever recorded. From that alone we would have to assume there is a biological basis. And at t least a part of the biological basis has already been found. We know the effects of testosterone and we know that men produce several times more of it than women. The only reasonable conclusion is that male-female differences are primarily the work of biology. No feminist critique of male and female behavior gets respect from me if it is assumes we are blank slates and not dimorphic creatures.

The difference between a black man who was enslaved and one that simply lives in violent conditions is that the one who was enslaved was prevented from living a good life because another person actively stopped him, while a contemporary black men is not being limited by any particular person in power, but an unconscious system. Oppression requires an actor.

>>5980618
according to human behavio YOUR A FUCKING MORAN PROVE ME WRONG SHIT ATHEIST FUCK

>>5980611
Boy have I got news for you: have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you is rape, you aren't entitled to rape anyone, period.

>>5980613

man i love posts like these. they really smack of the "racism is over now...we fixed all that after the civil rights movement so could everyone shut the fuck up about racism now?" school of reasoning.

>>5980610
Key word being civilisation.
I am not interested in a primitive tribes.

>>5980618
Are you implying human behavior is one sweeping objective generalization? You think every human behaves the same way?

And you're calling me a moron? Lmao

>>5980610
>modern societies
>all shitholes

Would you want to live in any of them?

>>5980625

google matrilineal civilizations yourself. they'e existed all throughout history. they exist all throughout nature.

isnt it funny how women ridicule men for their simplicity and reduce them to their primal instincts when most of them act on their primal instincts as well, except for them it means being useless and childish unless they shit out a baby?

>>5980624
im not saying sexism doesnt exist. by definition feminism is just gender theory. the feminists that you see are probably sexist. you have to take it one at a time, dont generalize. and im not saying racism doesnt exist. you are clearly making shit up by yourself.

>>5980631

i'm not even sure what you're arguing man. are you saying that all women owe all men sex by virtue of their being women? because that is what we're arguing in here.

>>5980637

except feminism's whole point is that these aren't primal instincts, but rather learned behaviors enforced by tradition and society.

>>5980616
>"For me to have sex with a guy, he has to meet my established standards and act how I see fit"
>not about being worthy/earning it

>>5980635
Where do you live?

>>5980610
First off, that source isn't academic. Second, anthropology is good in theory but is prone to methodological issues and has a heavily feminist slant. You would do well to be skeptical of any claims you hear about "matriarchal societies." They usually don't hold up to scrutiny once more scientific analysis is done on them. Third, let's say that exceptions did exist, that wouldn't really matter and they don't undermine the general case. It might be possible that with the perfect conditions a society could be matriarchal, but that doesn't mean that humans are blank slates and there's no difference between men and women.

>>5980632

that is immaterial to the argument. you asked for evidence that they've ever existed. i provided some contemporary examples.

>>5980620
>These male/female differences are observed in every culture we've ever recorded. From that alone we would have to assume there is a biological basis.

>We know the effects of testosterone and we know that men produce several times more of it than women.

so it is an issue of gender after all

>Oppression requires an actor.

there are actors

>>5980648

lol now we're just going to trash the entire discipline of anthropology as long as we can defend our precious precious male entitlement.

this thread is lost. stop posting everyone. nobody can conjure up one clear, god damn thought (especially not the ones against feminism)

>>5980635
No they haven't. Every important culture in terms of greateness and influance was male dominated.
Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Francs, Venice , Japan and so on. I don't care about one tribe that has invented fire in 500 years in Asia.

>>5980645
if you're saying 'caring about your own physical safety and wellbeing' is the same as someone being 'worthy' then you're being disingenuous

>>5980644
right, but that shit has been disproved even before most of the current feminists were born.

>>5980645
I have to make sure you aren't dysfunctional or autistic, yeah, if I'm even going to have sex, because I don't want to texting me saying plz respond for the rest of my life. If I'm looking long-term, then I will need someone to get along with, and if I get along with you then a relationship grows out of that naturally, like it does with friendship.

>>5980650
I didn't ask for evidence. You're talking to 2 different people here. Answer my question: would you live in any of those socities?

And answer my second question too >>5980647

>>5980659
>important culture in terms of greatness and influance

please, continue revising and narrowing your criteria until you get a satisfactory result.

this is the second time someone has used this pathetic tactic in this thread. same thing over and over.

>>5980604
When you have sex with a woman, even in a relationship, she often resists a bit. It's simply a game played between men and women. It's not about rape or entitlement.

>>5980608
>>5980615
No, it's not. Entitlement is the belief that you're owed something. So for instance someone puts in a resume for a job. Now many people know that if you want to distinguish yourself it's often a good thing to call in occasionally. Most people probably do it just fine, yet there are some that probably call every single day. Are the latter people entitled? No, they aren't. They've just taken it too far and not understanding they're hurting their chances. It is an analogous scenario with women.

>>5980659
>Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Francs, Venice , Japan

note that none of these empires exist anymore

>>5980662
either way, youre saying he has to meet your standards. does it ever cross your mind that men can be out of your league too?

>>5980674
>When you have sex with a woman, even in a relationship, she often resists a bit.

ok what the hell are you talking about?

maybe all the women you've slept with have resisted a little bit because they see how sociopathic you are and how you've simplified all human interaction down to 'worth'

feminism wants equality between the sexes
this will mean removing masculinity from the men and femininity from the woman

as a un-masculine loser(which doesn't really have anything to do with feminism) I wouldn't want masculinity gone for other men

>>5980674
>When you have sex with a woman, even in a relationship, she often resists a bit. It's simply a game played between men and women. It's not about rape or entitlement.
Uh, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>5980670
It is hardly narrow. What is narrow about wanting to see an example that has historical importance?

>>5980674

the "going overboard" part is a manifestation of entitlement. that is both what i and the other poster was pointing out. and that is what you just lackadaisically excuse.

>>5980641
I'm not arguing anything. I stand somewhere in the middle on the feminism issue. I just think it's hilarious when either side (and it's mostly the feminists that do this) bases their arguments on their moral standpoints and their personal beliefs of how a human being is supposed to act as if their idea of the perfect human behavior is somehow objective and "correct" when in reality, every human being is unique and therefore every human being should be treated differently. Equality isn't a gender or race issue, it's a human issue. Not each human is the same and I believe we can all agree on that, so why do they all deserve to be treated equally? I think the idea that each human is equal is absurd, but I don't think the lack of equality coincides with gender or race at all.

>>5980674
>Are the latter people entitled? No, they aren't.

they may be

>>5980675
note that women directly influenced the fall of these empires

>>5980686
Are you autistic? Treating every human equally doesn't mean buying size thirteen shoes for everyone for a gift. It means not shitting on people, as in treating every human being decently.

>>5980654
Anthropology major detected. Anthropology is incredibly flawed. The basis of anthropology is fieldwork, where a researcher goes to a place, lives with the community for awhile and studies them, and then reports his/her findings. It's so god damn subjective and falsification is difficult because a researcher might spend months, years with this community. You basically have to take them at their word. The fact that anthropology has become so heavily feminist over the last few decades makes it even more difficult to trust.

>>5980689
note that men blamed it on women because they don't want to take responsibility for their own mistakes

i actually wouldn't be surprised if these societies were initially matrilineal. i'm pretty sure japan was

>>5980691
Going by your definition nobody treats humans equally.

>>5980683
>Look at ever culture ever that had a civilisation and tell me it is a product of a social system.
>Key word being civilisation. I am not interested in a primitive tribes.
>important culture[s] in terms of greateness and influance

that looks like a narrowing of criteria to me. first you wanted proof that civilizations have done it in the past, then you amended that to exclude small tribes (as if they aren't societies?), then you insisted that i give examples of civilizations of a particular size or influence. next you will ask that i provide evidence of matrilineal societies of a certain size and cultural influence from a certain continent with a certain racial makeup.

people like you don't argue in good faith.

>>5980693
>The fact that anthropology has become so heavily feminist over the last few decades makes it even more difficult to trust.

that is unless the study of those societies suggests that they're all patriarchal of course

>>5980675
They exist in influance they had on our philosophy, law, art, culture and so on.

>>5980699
Small tribes are not civilizations, are you retarded?

>>5980691
Again, why does every human deserve being treated decently? Because your personal belief says so? You're doing it again. Literally pure ideology.

Also, treat every human decently yet here you are calling me autistic. How appropriate.

>>5980694
well men might have held the positions of power, but they were mostly pussywhipped, so its hard to tell which decisions have been unaffected by the deception of their women.

>>5980679
>>5980682

You are clearly a woman so how would you know? I am almost always the aggressor, and it's the same for most men. Women are in the position of accepting / denying sex, and it's not as if they are totally on board all the time. Sometimes they will deny you. Sometimes if you keep going they will acquiesce.

>>5980711
you don't sound like you're familiar with history at all

what was the last history book you read?

>>5980699
It is narrowing criteria, considering that one random tribe is of no importance to modern world.
I wanted proof that civilisations have done it in the past and haven't gotten it. I got 6 tribes. I ask one historicaly important civilisation that was not ruled mostly by males.

>>5980708
>Again, why does every human deserve being treated decently? Because your personal belief says so? You're doing it again. Literally pure ideology.
No, without any sort of primal postulates we couldn't even function. Causation doesn't even have any support but personal beliefs based on feelings, that doesn't make these things invalid because you're so edgy and autistic that you actually don't have a value system for not treating people like shit.

>Also, treat every human decently yet here you are calling me autistic. How appropriate.
On 4chan, you stupid faggot.

>>5980706
>any type of culture, society, etc., of a specific place, time, or group:
>cities or populated areas in general, as opposed to unpopulated or wilderness areas:

are you going to argue that, say, the iroquois weren't a civilization? tribes are societies are civilizations. you're assigning a qualifiers and quantifiers to your own private definition to, predictably and dishonestly, reach the result that satisfies you.

>>5980702
If they did, considering feminism's stake in the idea that there are matriarchal societies, yea, it would be more damning.

>>5980713
>You are clearly a woman

i'm not actually. so it shouldn't be any surprise that i'm not on board with your understanding of human interaction, when what you think is 'clear' actually isn't

>>5980713
>You are clearly a woman so how would you know?
How would I know if I resist having sex? What?

>>5980717

cool, thanks for admitting that you're not interested in arguing in good faith. goodbye.

>>5980721
Might as well say that denmark is a civilization.

>>5980717
i must have missed when you stated how this was a relevant exercise to the thread's direction

>>5980716
you dont sound like you have any idea what youre talking about and i dont care about the last history book you have read

>>5980691
Well thats an odd definition of equality.
Can you give me any time period where peoeple treated every human being decently?

and if you can't, can you give me an example as to why feminists are able to circumvent that historical record

>>5980729
I have no idea, I just shitposted and we are here now.

>>5980728
it is. it was released as dlc

>>5980721
Google words you retard.

civ·i·li·za·tion
ˌsivələˈzāSH(ə)n/
noun
the stage of human social development and organization that is considered most advanced.
"they equated the railroad with progress and civilization"
synonyms: human development, advancement, progress, enlightenment, culture, refinement, sophistication
"a higher stage of civilization"
the process by which a society or place reaches an advanced stage of social development and organization.
the society, culture, and way of life of a particular area.
plural noun: civilizations; plural noun: civilisations
"the great books of Western civilization"
synonyms: culture, society, nation, people
"ancient civilizations"

>>5980726
You may not (though I'd bet the behavior I consider resisting is something you engage in and aren't even aware). The fact that you aren't a man who has sex with women means your perspective is limited.

>>5980733
yeah i probably would have said that too if i was caught out on /lit/ having not read a single book about what i was attempting to debate

>>5980738
Thank you anon, you did it for me.

>>5980740
lmao you make baseless assumptions and then pretend like you have won an argument? youre pathetic.

>>5980738

and my definition was from meriam-webster. isn't that cute!

look, the point is that it is not strange or unknown in history and in the present for societies or civilizations or whatever noun you want to use to be based around female authority rather than male. the point being that there is nothing "natural" about a patriarchic system, and there is nothing "natural" about male attitudes of entitlement towards sex. matriarchies, patriarchies, they're both artificial constructs.

the entire point of the feminist project is to get beyond them, not to replace one with another.

>>5980739
More likely you're morally bankrupt and think that because you make women nervous, all women must be nervous in sexual encounters.

>>5980745
So you think some small tribe is the most advanced stage a woman can lead her "civilization" makes sense I suppose.

>>5980727
I asked for a simple thing that you failed to provide and now I am not arguing in good faith?
This is what feminism looks like.

>>5980750
yet they keep coming back for more.

>>5980751
Oh no, I'm not that feminist anon. You just posted a response I would have posted.

>>5980735
>Can you give me any time period where peoeple treated every human being decently?
I can't give time period where every person treated every person decently, no.

>and if you can't, can you give me an example as to why feminists are able to circumvent that historical record
Slavery was circumvented when it was historically rampant previously.

>>5980746
i know you're just adding 'baseless' before 'assumptions' to flesh out your argument a little bit but it's not baseless at all; you lack any sort of insight into what you're talking about because you talk about it in such broad generalizations, making the same arguments almost verbatim to what i've read time and time again on this site. it's not because you're all repeating the truth, it's because these arguments are easy to say but hard for anyone to actually want to go through and dissect all the ways in which you're wrong

and i asked you a question. i don't think that counts as pretending like i've won

>>5980719
>value system
So this is your reason for treating everyone according to your cookie cutter definition of decently?

This just in: different humans have different value systems. Yours isn't objective. Please stop trying to oppress my views just because they're different than yours you fucking hypocrite.

>Value systems are intrinsic!
citation please

What this boils down to is that you're a close minded retard that bases their arguments on feelings and personal ideology and the second someone disagrees you turn into the SJW equivalent of a /pol/tard. You're a massive hypocrite and completely irrational. Your argument is repeatedly an appeal to ideology that in your mind is objective when in reality it's completely personal. You're basically a five year old playing astronaut except in this case your backyard isn't outerspace, it's social objectiveness.

Also
>claims to treat everyone decently
>calls people retarded faggots
>it's le 4chan! meme
>excuses
Excuses for hypocritical behavior. Where have I seen that before.

>feminism means entertaining the delusions and fallacies of someone who has consistently shown themselves to be intellectually dishonest.

not even a well-heeled conservative would argue with someone who behaves that way.

>>5980040
It's a cult ideology, cults are a constant of the human condition as long as they remain cults the damage they cause is confined. The problem with feminism isn't the irrational rhetoric, the deception, hypocrisy or even the violence associated with feminism it's that it's been inculcated into main stream institutions, that is: the media, the state, as a tool of disinformation and oppression.

>>5980753
I'm not sure how that has anything to do with what I'm saying, which is that if women have sex with you and you're creepy, it's in spite of you being creepy, not because of it.

>>5980753
>yet they keep coming back for more.

i thought males were the aggressors?

>>5980759

i love it how the reactionary right has tried to co-opt the language of the progressive left. how else do you end up with absurdities such as

>This just in: different humans have different value systems. Yours isn't objective. Please stop trying to oppress my views just because they're different than yours you fucking hypocrite.

translation: stop trying to oppress my right to oppress others!

fun with rhetoric!